Committee of the Whole

Good evening and uh welcome to the special committee.

The whole budget meeting for Thursday, February 16th, 2023.

Before we begin, uh, we recognize that the Laquangan speaking people known today as the Esquimalt Nation and the Songhees Nation, and that their historic connections to these lands continue to this day.

This evening we will hear from the public during public participation and question period portions of the agenda.

Um, we've got no members of the audience, so I'm going to skip that.

Uh if you wish to provide comments by telephone, call 778-402-9227.

And when prompted, enter conference ID 817-217-101 pound at the appropriate time in the agenda.

I will then announce the last four digits of your phone number and ask you to mute the live webcast to avoid feedback.

Ask you not to use speaker phone to ensure sound quality, and ask that you unmute by pressing star six.

To begin, please indicate your name and address for the record.

Speakers will have five minutes each to speak during the public participation and two minutes to ask a question during the question period.

You will be timed.

May I have a motion to approve the agenda?

Second.

All in favor, then opposed.

Um, and that brings us down to the public participation period.

And unless Chief Hearst wanted to make a comment, I think we can go directly to the phone, Carl.

Have we got anybody on the line?

Mayor Tobias, we have no callers at this time.

Thank you, Carl.

That ends the public participation period.

And we'll pass it over to staff for the night's introduction of the deliberations for the 2023 to 2027 financial plan.

Very good.

Thank you, Mayor Tobias and members of council for yet another evening of opportunity to talk about the budget.

We made some progress last night, I'm happy to say, and I will be providing a short recap.

At which point I was thinking that we would uh well, we have a couple of options.

One is to look at the items that we put in the parking lot.

I have a dis uh uh worksheet where I can display that on the screens and we can work through those.

Um, alternatively, if you wanted to delay that discussion, we would go directly into capital projects.

So at your pleasure.

And um, you know, you can think about that for a minute while I do the recap and then uh we take your direction after that.

Fair enough.

Are there are there any questions um about the process and going through as as we did last night, project by project?

Um, I guess at some point will we be able to look at each of the different um pots of money i guess like it you know the the the stuff that's funded through the casino versus taxation like will we be able to group them and see um like how much room we have left on in those pots we certainly do have um in as a part of the process one of the things near the end is to look at all of our reserves the contributions we make to the reserves and the projected balances there is another view of the um information that we have both in your binder and we do have electronically that I can show you of um you know kind of all of the projects perhaps that are coming out of the casino fund if that's what you're interested in.

We certainly can have a discussion about that.

That's usually one of the later things that we do because all the decisions that we made last night and will make tonight have an influence on that, on those numbers.

Okay, thank you.

And then um I also not that it would probably be a very long conversation, but did we ever discuss ideas also for um generating revenue as well to help kind of offset some of the costs that we're talking about?

I would suggest that there would be an opportunity to do that when we talk about the various service plans budgets, so that after we're through with the capital program, we do look at the service plans budgets, both the ex primarily we do focus on expenses as we, you know, sometimes have a little bit less control over much of our revenue.

Uh, but but certainly that would be the time to have that discussion.

We could start by selling perhaps subscriptions for our live webcast, uh, and that would be probably.

Okay, if you just give me 10 seconds here, I'm going to share my screen and give you a recap.

I do apologize for those of you that aren't, you know, either close enough to a screen or or uh you know have the correct magnifying glasses to see the numbers on the screen.

I've made it pretty much as as large as I can without uh losing information off the screen.

So where we are starting, and I'm going to you know kind of highlight the area that I'm talking about.

I'm gonna start at the top here.

In 2023, the total amount of taxation is about 11.5 million.

That is what is projected by the budget package that you have in your hands right now.

Now that is after we project what we what we believe about or what VC Assessment has told us about new construction or non-market change that would be providing a 94,000 ish of new revenue, meaning that uh 11 point on almost four million dollars will be coming from prior ex assessments, which translates to the 13.4 um percent increase that we projected, and we talked about that previously.

So last night, I'm just gonna scroll down here.

Last night we talked about some changes, many of which didn't affect taxes, but the purpose of the first part of this spreadsheet is to track the ones that did, so that we can tell you our projection that stands at this moment in time about what happened.

What happened to tax what happened to uh your with your decisions last night as we understood them and how that impacted taxes.

So we did have one uh pardon me, two that were decided on last night that impacted taxes.

The first one was police policing municipal employee.

We deferred that one year.

Now, the numbers that you see on this line don't match what's in your book, only because they are the difference between what is in your book and what you decided.

So we shifted a whole line of numbers over to the right one column, and this is the difference between those two numbers.

So it did take away $50,000 worth, which is conveniently a nice little round half a percent of taxation in 2023, and it shifted everything over one year.

So that's the impact of that one.

The wildfire fuel management, and we're going to read drop the word plan off of that label, N78, we shifted, I'm sorry, we did nothing in 2023.

In other words, we are retaining the program for 2023, and we're going to drop it off of the budget for now for the following years, and you'll see that on the budget next year for consideration.

That is how we understood your decision.

Okay.

I have a little gift for you, and that is that after the budget book was published, Fordis BC, who has an operating agreement with us, notified us based on uh their revenue calculation what our operating agreement fee would be.

I had underestimated it, because I don't know their revenue numbers, by about $20,000.

That is pure operating revenue to us.

So I increased our revenue by $20,000 by basically the exact amount that they've told us they will be paying us in 2023, and then increased my projections for future years by 20,000.

Now that amount, you know, isn't always purely predictable, by me at least um and and so you know that may be more or less uh but we usually get the uh get that notification close to being in time to be reflected in our in our budget document those were the only decision uh the only decisions yesterday that impacted taxation so bringing those numbers into um our now revised increase we've gone from 13.4 to 12.7 for 2023 okay any questions about that so far?

No, thanks for the update.

And I know that took some time on the fly to adjust the numbers to date on, so thank you for that.

Yeah, no problem so the what you see below in this next part of the spreadsheet is the rest of the decisions that impacted some other funding source, and we track these.

So I'm just going to very briefly go through to confirm that we understood your decisions correctly.

The drainage master plan is shifted by a year from 2023 to 2024.

Okay.

The public engagement Erskine Lane neighborhood is removed.

We are not doing that in 2023.

The community Engagement and Satisfaction Survey survey is going to be deferred to 2024 from 2023.

Similarly, the investment program development goes out of 2023, and we will bring it back for your consideration in 2024.

The volunteer community improvement grant program we will do in 2023 for $2,500.

And the remainder for the other four years of the plan, we're going to take it out of the budget, but we do have a note to bring it back next year for your consideration and an evaluation of how it went in 2023.

The following three projects were removed entirely from the financial plan being the Memorial Park Feasibility Study, Fetus Cove Accessibility Study, Helmkin Centennial Park Master Plan.

Those were removed.

And they will they we we don't have immediate plans to bring them back.

Okay.

Any questions on those items?

Uh do you feel there is anything that we missed?

I'm about to show you the items in the parking lot.

So um, you know, if if you're missing things, um you might find them in the parking lot.

Thank you.

So if you got any questions, I think it'd be appropriate if you yeah.

I do actually just the only one uh the Helmican Centennial Park Master Plan.

You're saying that it's it's just going away completely.

What does that look like in the future?

Obviously, one of our flagship parks, and we had some big plans there.

I know um we all love it, and so do many people.

I'm just wondering the long term visioning for that.

I think some of the rationale was uh we've got a lot of studies and not a lot of action, and and these these are just a few that we kind of hit.

And uh the other thing was could we have kind of wrap some of these things up into a parks kind of in general uh thing?

Uh and I think that was the somebody w else wanted to chime in, then we can certainly Council Rogers.

Yeah, um uh Councilor Lemon and myself were concerned about um uh losing this plan.

Um we certainly pointed out that um uh there's a um a lot of interest and a lot of different interests uh sometimes competing and um and assessing um so uh I guess one of the things um we can put off I I would actually recommend um in hindsight that we put it over to the following year and um uh one idea would be that this council uh go to Centennial Park with staff with Dave Podmiloff and walk it and get a good understanding of what the issues and implications are uh because he he did a really good job to uh parks and recreation advisory committee in explaining the the the complexities.

Um so you know um and I I would hope that um you know council would reconsider not to kill it completely but to defer it for a year uh and have a sober second thought and and see what the next year holds for us.

Thank you, Councilor Rogers.

I think the other issue was the um uh sea rise mitigation as well for the park we can have some real good plans and maybe one of those plans is going to include a water park because that's what it might be.

So I think you know getting the timing right for that do we invest $55,000 in a study that we might be challenged to do because of other mitigating effects that we needed to do.

And I think we're just getting overzealous with the red pen as well, to be completely honest.

Um, could I make a motion that you know either a we keep it in the parking lot, or um uh the idea is to the um change the uh uh the motion not to defeat and remove but to defer a year.

Yeah, I'll second that.

Yeah, I don't think we have to be that formal, but I I'd I'd be happy with supporting that.

And and uh I think my point is as well is I'd like to see, I know we have a parks master plan, but every time we change a piece of it, we're changing the parks master plan.

And we've got different areas of more high density population that might, you know, our our dynamics gonna change significantly over the next two years, just from population growth that we've already approved that's being constructed now.

Um, so that that's my concern that we've got some things aligning that I'd I'd much rather see the effect on the everything if we're gonna spend fifty-five thousand dollars on what I call shelfware, somebody might read it, um, than um that just to do it more comprehensively.

But I'd be fine with with uh pushing the decision back for a year and and taking a more comprehensive look at our parks.

I'd be Mike.

If I might.

Uh for just for just for consideration, uh uh staff have the RFP.

Uh we got a probably a fixed amount contract, uh likely right now.

I have no idea what um deferring a year would do for inflation and and increased costs.

Uh I think that's a possibility.

Um just for consideration, could we think about starting it this fiscal year with a a percentage where the bulk of it is actually in the next fiscal?

And that way we hopefully would uh I don't know it it there might be too much to ask.

I wonder if staff could advise that that were just pie in the sky.

Yes, Ron, go ahead.

Yeah, uh the reason the committee made the decision to to eliminate this was uh when we looked at what was actually left undeveloped in the park, there was very little, and so there really didn't seem to be any benefit to having a study when the you already have ball diamonds, you have a playground, and you had a couple tennis courts, which in terms of what we've heard would probably be better off as pickleball courts.

And hardly worth spending $55,000 when there was very little area to be developed.

And that that was the issue and the reason why we stopped this.

So defer it net defer it for a year, have a look at the potential for you know what whatever the water rise may do to that last diamond.

But I certainly wouldn't want to spend any money on it this year.

Thank you.

A couple more comments.

Um, let's go with uh councillor Kwalowich and then Councillor Glan.

Thank you, uh Councillor Mattson.

Excellent points you brought up.

And actually we'll probably support the reason that we need to have a plan because we have aging tennis courts, we have uh water drainage issues in that park, we have aging baseball fields, and if the study reveals that it's not appropriate to remodel, well then perhaps we'll have to take a whole different view of what we do with that area.

I think we discussed withdrawing the RFP altogether, but but my suggestion was that to have a a a new one focusing in on the uh water rise and the uh possible flood mitigation, but that was just my own idea.

I think that we got something in there exactly for that.

Um staff.

Thank you, Mayor Tobias.

I just wanted to comment.

I don't want to fast forward too much.

Um there is one capital project C034 that is predicated upon the decision you make uh with respect to the the Helms and Centennial uh master plan.

So uh I just want you to keep that in mind.

And again, I don't want to fast forward to that right now, but um that project uh that capital project does say this implementation is conditional to uh the findings of the master plan.

Thanks.

And do we have a separate one as well for the effects of coastal uh or sea rise?

Uh through through the Mary, yes, we do.

However, that particular study looks at the whole town, whereas this particular RFP um just looks at the um coastal uh sea level, like coastal imp coastal sea level rise impacts to that park, but also the impacts to like um around erosion because there is some erosion taking place there as well.

So this particular plan would um encompass that so get um getting some guidance on that as well as implementation as well over um five, 10, 15 years on how to deal with some of these issues.

And um has the RFP been released on that or we're just waiting kind of decision.

It's the the RFP, yeah.

So the RFP is closed we've we have received um several um um bids and um coastal parts.

Oh sorry, what are you are we talking about RFP?

Are we talking about we're talking about the coastal uh technology sorry um no sorry um uh no because um if if council can recall back in december council uh staff brought forward a report um requesting council's endorsement to apply for a grant so the coastal adaptation plan is strictly um uh it'll be driven it will happen if we receive a grant okay thank you um yeah i'd like to see that done and even if a grant wasn't available before we make any decisions about remodeling stuff.

Um and you know, I know it's important, but i just don't want to make a decision on something and then all realize that when we get the report that it's going to be compromised, we get a whole bunch of other work to do.

Councilor Roger.

Yeah, good point.

Um maybe we do need to have the the coastal adaptation plan to see the effects of sea level rise that then we'll be uh supporting information for uh how we're going to mitigate that in the parts uh VRL park plan.

So um deferring it for the year then does make sense to uh have that that information if we indeed approve the coastal adaptation plan.

And can we flag that as uh in case we forget for the coastal adaptation plan that there's other things contingent?

I mean, I I think uh counselor Qualwage's house is pretty close there too.

So I think there's more than just the park to worry about.

Um that uh that there's some other things.

So flag it if we forget that it is an important thing that other decisions are contingent on when we come to there.

And Council them.

I I wasn't I wasn't actually ready, but but I would be on board with that.

Um I might I was just hovering.

I don't want to lose this.

Um, so I would be comfortable and and prepared if if a motion is if if it requires a motion just to uh put it down the road for a year and wait for uh fingers crossed receipt of a grant.

Yeah, and and maybe if it's only grant contingent and there's other opportunities out there, like the sum of money that we're gonna receive from the province that's undetermined at this point, it might be a good investment for that.

So I'd be all uh and board for that.

I know we were very confusing staff, and I'm sorry for that, but I think the decision was that we're gonna defer it for a year to revisit it at the next budget meeting, and that we would like to see the coastal study advanced this year.

And if it comes down that it's grant dependent and that grant falls through, then I think there's some things attached to it.

Maybe we could look at some creative accounting ways to um ensure that that coastal study gets done first.

Very good.

With your permission, then I will move on to the parking lot items.

Can you see that on the screen there?

Is it your wish to go through these now?

What's the what's the will?

Do we want to wait for a bit?

Uh council.

I uh my my thinking is we because we'll get bogged down here.

Um we will, and that'll be 8 30, and then we're just starting to attack what we came here to do.

So I think we should just attack what we came here to do, and then deal with the parking lot if with whatever time is left over tonight or next week.

Yeah, I agree with that.

Right.

Happy with that.

General nods.

I'm assuming that's consensus.

Very good.

So while I'm transitioning my screen to the dashboard listing that we had, we'll move directly into capital items.

So perhaps we could start.

So we're looking at the listing on page 35.

You'll see the project summaries start behind the second blue tab.

They're all the project summaries start with a C, and we're going to, as staff, do our best to remind you which page to be on when we start talking about each project.

So I think we'll just turn it to Ivan to um talk about the first one uh in the in progress section, which is council chambers modifications, and then I'll just give you a very brief overview on the workstation evergreening.

Thank you, Don.

Uh so yeah, C 125 on page 136.

This project is actually probably 99% complete.

Um, as you can see, the the seats you're sitting on, the new desks there in place.

Through the last few councils, I've been trying to test you guys to see if you've noticed anything that's out of place or something that hasn't been finished.

Haven't heard anything, so it sounds like we're good to go.

The carryover is meant just to make sure we pay our bills and that.

Mine also doesn't, but you don't have one either.

Yeah, it's it's shared.

So there's um we had to play a little game of okay.

We we got two plugs for each one, which side of the of the window um we'd have to do it and then eventually when the when these mirrors or windows are gone it's a little more accessible but the intent is that it's shared and what what what does it take to lose the windows or if that's the will of council uh mayor toias that is the will of council okay uh we'll discuss that uh at the appropriate time I feel a little bit boxed in okay uh uh I I think there's general agreement to carry on with the work there and what's left for the 35,000 on pretty much nothing dollar wise.

So that was carry over to pay the remaining invoices that trickled in as part of 2023 is merely a a financial um exercise, basically.

Okay.

Then there's really no way to say no because we've already committed to it.

So that's fine.

IT evergreen.

Yes, thank you.

And that's C40.

Um on um uh um yeah, I don't have the page in front of me.

I do have the page in front of me.

It's right here.

So uh this is an evergreening program that we carry on year after year, but we do return to council just so that you are aware.

It is funded from casino revenue.

We are uh we have over time uh you know tried to be as um efficient with our dollars as we could possibly be.

We have recently in the last year or so transitioned or we are transitioning away from a three-year rotation refresh to a four-year refresh with warranties because we are finding that uh there's there's not too much wrong with uh most commuter computer workstations um after three years.

We are also finding that um while there is a lot of inflation, certainly we've talked about that, it seems like some technologies do not get more expensive.

So that's why we actually did reduce the budget in a a couple of years ago.

We have about 300 devices when you count all mobile devices and headsets and webcams and so on.

So it is a for us a fairly large inventory.

Uh this uh in 2023, the most significant will be the replacement of a eight-year-old uh multifunction printer, the large Koneca.

Um it is a security concern.

Our managed service provider is telling us we should have replaced that by now.

So we will be doing that forthwith to to kind of close close that little uh door.

And uh that's all I have.

We will uh carry on as normal with your approval.

Yeah, I I think everybody needs design devices in this day and age.

I don't have an issue, any comment.

Okay, we're good.

I think that one's approved and ergonomic workstation replacement.

Thank you.

That's on page 111, and that is C 101 under a required list.

This is a carry-forward project from 2022, uh, seeing the replacement uh upstairs and downstairs of over two decade old furniture for staff.

We're experiencing as our workforce ages, sadly, because I'm one of them, uh, some musculoskeletal injuries and issues as we have sciatica, frozen shoulder, all sorts of fun appointments that are uh taking up quite a bit of time.

Um, so the hope is to have sit-stand furniture that's more appropriate and more suited, such like we have seen when we've toured the um RCMP building in 2019, and uh have been aspiring towards that since then.

And so this is a an ask towards that.

It would be funded from casino revenue and a one-time cost put in for that.

Discussion.

Counselor Qualit.

I support it given that the current furniture is 20 years old, and the advent of employee health and wellness is something that is more um important now than it ever has been.

And although I will say this is a lot of money for office furniture, uh, if we can get 10 to 15 years out of it and employees work longer with like less sick time, then I think you will see the return on investment.

Counselor McKenzie.

That's my thoughts.

Thank you.

Counselor Collett.

The approach that we might want to consider is that have in the government where I I work um has been that these sit stands uh desks are usually only for people who have medical notes.

And then even then we there's also might be just a couple of them which can be um the hoteling so uh people can use it um when they need um so I again, yeah, it is it is a lot of money.

And I just want to make sure that um we are using if we are getting the m most expensive desks that they are being used.

And um yeah.

Thank you.

Thank you, uh Council McKenzie.

Uh Councilor Mattson, did you have a point?

Um other than it's a lot of money, but uh like I say David says it's it's it's old equipment and uh unfortunately I don't think we have sufficient room to be able to have a couple of stations just sitting idle by idly or sitting empty until someone sort of needs it because they're stiff.

Uh so perhaps yeah, it sounds like it's a good investment.

I think the and the only point I have is uh is could this go and I know we have furniture these days is semi-disposable, especially when it comes to modern furniture.

Is there any way that this goes in to asset management?

It's a thing that ages, needs to be replaced.

I think the sooner we get our asset management strategy in order, I think we can answer that a little better.

But generally speaking, we would try to find a way to uh obtain some sort of revenue for I don't know what was done in the past, but we'd likely try to put on market to get to cost recover as much as possible.

Great.

Thank you.

Council Brown.

Blandford Rule, do you have the provincial government recycling furniture sold?

That may be a place to put it.

I wonder if it includes raised deaths, electronic deaths to go up and down.

Yeah, those those are great.

So I'm assuming that support, uh, Councilor Brown.

Those are awesome events.

Uh perhaps we'll sell it to council for uh twice as much.

I think there was support noting uh Councilor McKenzie's um uh objection that maybe it'd be managed differently.

I certainly support it.

Does it need to go to vote?

Are we okay?

Okay.

Uh and phone replacement.

Yes, this one is a is a bit of a fun one.

I have the pleasure to bring you uh a few years ago, I want to say 2018, we transitioned away from a in-house phone system to a VoIP system, where with Shaw, that contract is up for renewal.

With SHA, at the best option at the time was to get the system where basically everything is by subscription, including the desk phones.

Since then, we have implemented Microsoft 365, which includes a phone system, a VoIP system.

So it's the same technology, however, not a different or separate application.

The capital cost that you see proposed for 2023 would be to purchase the Teams certified desk phones that will work with teams.

Right?

So their teams, it's basically a hard desk phone that actually works with the Team system, or for people who choose, they don't need a desk phone, they can just answer the phone on the computer, which means that you can answer the phone from anywhere with just about any device that you can get Teams on.

The advantage of this is that because we are already a Microsoft 365 licensed, this is just a lift in the licensing, and the cost savings compared to our current system means that we should see operational cost reduction in the future.

I'm projecting a five-year payback period, so this project will cost zero over that five-year time.

Now, my estimates may be plus or minus a little bit, depending on how many people choose to opt for a desk phone or don't, you know.

So I've we've spent a lot of time to try to project this as closely as we can, and we don't know everything that we don't know at this point in time.

So I may be off by a little bit, but generally the concept is that with a $35,000 investment in hardware, we will save money over the next five years and then beyond.

Just a question can we bin the phones entirely and just go with um with either answering it through your computer?

And the other question I have is um how many folks have town iPhones or or mobile phones, and and just to go that route entirely instead of a a desk phone if people are not at their desk then they don't get the phone call kind of thing.

Sure sure I do appreciate the question and I I can't entirely answer that.

Whenever you are in um in embracing a change with people some people will not embrace it as well as others when they're used to a desk phone.

And there will be some applications where we will need to have a desk phone.

You know so so by and large I think that as this technology becomes more common I think over time as these phones age out, I suspect when people get used to answering the phone on their computer or on their mobile device.

You know, so so that may not always be an option.

But it certainly provides a great level of flexibility in the future.

We when we are onboarding uh new employees, we don't have to teach them two different systems.

So there's some some real um you know better better efficient you know efficiencies to be gained there.

And uh I you know I I feel like it is the the right way to go.

Thanks, um other comments?

Uh Council McKenzie.

Um I I do echo uh Mayor Tobias's uh comments.

I think uh provincial government, you know, we're not given the option of the handset.

Everyone does it through the app on a on the laptop.

So um that would be my preference too.

And uh the other reason for um us paying iPhones is that it's kind of a work from anywhere thing.

If you happen to be in another building now, um you can still you don't have to drive back to the office to to participate in it.

And and lastly, I would just say we we're using our mobile devices for two-factor authentication to ensure that you know we're we're we're doubly secure so that everybody's on board.

And and I know people are used to using it on their hand or you know, having that thing on your desk to answer it, but um some of those people that complain also have an iPhone in their pocket, so just saying.

Um Council Browns.

Yeah, just for emergency preparedness purposes, I would prefer to see both.

I know I keep a landline at home just for that very reason.

If cell towers go down, internet goes down.

Uh my third cousin phones me six times a week.

It's kind of annoying, but he's the only one that phones me at home.

But I still keep that line line just for emergency preparedness purposes.

Do you have any idea where that landline's hooked up to?

The internet.

Yeah.

Possibly, I don't know.

Councilor Lemon.

Staff say they need it.

So they need it.

Counselor Rogers.

Happy?

Counselor Matson.

Uh I'm not feeling too strongly one way or the other.

On this one.

Can I um can I just check what what is the additional cost of having the the actual phone itself?

Like is there what's the difference between just having the Teams app versus the phones?

The Teams app, of course, is included in the license, so it's uh it it's it's what you get when you when you license to that level.

I understand that the cost of a of a single desk phone is it it's about $350 ish.

Right?

Somewhere somewhere in that range.

I mean there's there's a variety of models.

Uh what what my plan would be would would be to you know kind of set up a a workstation so that you know people could uh really try but perhaps before we commit to a desk home g give them a little trial period with uh let's try it uh you know just using the the Teams app on your on your computer and and and uh you know give them s some time to get used to that before we actually commit to a desk phone it may work for some people it may not for others I I think although there may be some concern that um that yeah just council would like to see them move over sooner and later because I think those uh the desk phones are going to become a dinosaur very very quickly so yeah if there's not uptake but if there's not uptake you're not gonna spend the money on it.

Okay thank you.

So I think there's support for that um phone service replacement IT infrastructure hardware replacements.

Thank you very much, Mayor Tobias.

So this one again, like the workstation refresh, this is our network infrastructure that we need to uh replace.

We do in a very systematic way.

You see in fiscal year three that it's a zero, and that's because we have uh fewer server replacements demanded than years in the financial plan.

So we're very cognizant at scheduling these out so that they don't peak and they are spread out over the five-year plan.

So in 2023, that is the uh public safety building server host server that will be replaced.

Additionally, we do have five year old switches and a firewall uh that will need to be replaced.

Uh so it's just time, and uh, this is on the recommendation of our managed service provider.

Don't ask me too many tough questions on hardware network infrastructure, as that's about as much as I know uh what you see in the document in front of you.

I do trust our experts and we push back all the time on do we have to do it?

Do we have to do it now?

What is the best option?

We do get them to to give us quotes and and uh tell us, you know, basically optimize all of our dollars and we have seen this project and this budget over the time stay relatively stable in terms of costing.

It has not had a lot of escalation at all.

Have we ever done a study just to move everything to the cloud.

We have not.

We have not done that um as you know, we do update our IT strategic plan every three years.

I would expect that question to be at least handled in some way, shape, or form in the next iteration of the IT strategic plan.

We have been very interested to know how many servers we could get rid of and what the implications are for that for our emergency center, for you know, so it will take some work to study what the potential is, what the downside might be, what the risks might be, and again again what the cost increases or savings might be, because those are not necessarily a guaranteed savings, but I do appreciate that in my way of thinking, there are some advantages in terms of security and risks that way.

Yeah, yeah, I'd be interested in looking at that.

I've got no problem with the hardware infrastructure uh replacements, but I would really like to see some analysis done if we moved everything to the cloud.

And even government right now is using protected B on the cloud.

So that's like pretty confidential stuff that we're able to do business there.

Yeah, there's some concern if the internet goes down, but there's also some concern if your servers fry out.

So there's a balance, and I've been very slow to embrace it myself, but I'd like to see the the the difference kind of over time, whether it would be a benefit to us or not.

I do note that our backup assessment just just recently done in 2022 in our disaster recovery assessment has several recommendations that a a particular service or application could do very well and better in in a hosted environment in the cloud.

Thank you, Counselor Rogers.

Yeah, I support it just uh and uh personally speaking, I can't get uh Windows um 11 loaded on my PC because I'm missing a little do-da on my motherboard.

So yeah, and make sense gotta do it.

I give any other thoughts, comments?

Councillor Mattson, just giving you an opportunity.

I know it's exciting in Port Albernie.

I can't see thumbs without my glasses on.

Yeah, I thumbs up.

Okay.

All right.

I'd have to switch gears.

Uh so I think that's approved or records information management system done.

This is actually me.

I'm sorry, Sherry, it's over.

I shouldn't I shouldn't say that.

It is Don and Sarah.

Uh page 57 is C004.

With such a low number, you'll say, why are we still talking about C004?

And when you say, Mayor, that you know, with some reluctance, you think about the cloud, and it is with some reluctance I too think about the cloud.

And this project has been a C004 because it has been around and it carried forward from prior years.

And the good thing that it has been because the legislation is now moving to the point where I can feel more comfortable with the cloud because before I couldn't, and because legislation has now caught up to technology more and more so.

And I think also our move to Office 365 has helped.

Uh that is uh in keeping with local governments around BC.

And we need to clean it up, tidy it up, and narrow it down to a much simpler system for the the cloud, and leverage our tools now that we do have with Office 365 we don't have the in-house expertise we want to do it right the first time because change and change management are difficult things so this project will will seek to do that and um it is tied to licensing as well that um that we will be able to to get um and tie into Office 365.

What else we may need to get there we will be exploring this year with our records manager slash archivist and uh Dawn and her IT group and uh we'll see what we can get but we really do need to get our records moved because every day we're generating many, many every every email.

Every email is a record.

So we do need to get get on this.

Thank you, uh Counselor Lemon, then Counselor Rogers and Counselor McKenzie.

Sarah, um how many years have for how many years have we seen this?

And for how many years have we deferred it?

I wouldn't say it's a deferral.

I think it's been approved and what has happened is that it hasn't happened because because there's so many systems that were available and you and I always knew we always knew that they were going to be systems not unlike our paper system that would be coming to an end and you'd be left with a pro with a system that you knew there was an end in sight and and it was good while it lasted but we needed something longer and so I haven't been sad that we haven't dealt with the electronic as quickly as we needed to because I knew that the cloud was coming we just haven't legislatively had the tools in our pocket to be able to do it until the last year or so and it also is uh my ability my department's ability to to fully resource it the way we needed to, but I think we will be able to get on this this year.

So just one more question.

So if this is done, if this is approved and it's done, this is the fast track to the cloud.

This is the highway to the cloud.

I I believe our records will be moving there.

They're not there yet.

Councilor Road.

Uh yeah, I'm I'm just referring to um uh what is it, page 59, and it talks about the risk to success of the project.

Uh so it it it I understand that it'll be one department trained and transitioned at a time.

So it is possible that we could see uh uh this started in a and a carryover into the next fiscal year if we're uh you know we got time challenges.

Yes, uh, we have a records team within the organization.

There's a rep from each department that works with our records uh person, and um we would launch with uh a team uh a department that is already heavily records organized and uh go from there, take any learnings and be able to implement them into some that are perhaps a little less organized.

Thank you, Councilman Kinson.

So is this a software?

Like how it does it differ than having a new filing structure in the cloud or on Teams, for instance.

So primarily we we we talked just a minute ago about servers.

Right now, all of our files are on a file a shared file server in the basement.

What this project will do, we'll move those files to SharePoint in the cloud with our Microsoft 365 product.

So we already are licensed with Microsoft 365.

This is a bump up in the licensing to allow us to use the application in Microsoft to manage these records with the proper disposition and file structure, you know, the file structure and or organization management of the files in in Microsoft.

So we have the tool, we we have we have the tool, we need to be licensed to use it and trained, and then we need to move the files to the cloud and implement the system that will help us manage those files properly.

So it that's the the cost there the uh 1680 that's for all of what you just described training and everything like that.

Yes.

Okay.

Thank you.

Sid Run yes um it was just mentioned that you'd be able to manage the files properly in the cloud and I'm just wondering what's wrong with the way the files are being managed now on the servers.

Because it's a liability, I think that's one of them.

The other one is, you know, I would suspect trying to search for an FOI request if you don't have a good file structure is is like crocheting and I don't crochet.

So I think in this way too you can flag things like uh I just built a a system that has got a one button audit per subject and everything's linked onto it in your FOI request and all the emails are spit out.

You just vet it before you go in.

So what's the advantage to this?

I think there'd be time saving, cost savings, lower risk, better service.

Making Don not pull her hell hair out or Sarah?

Don?

I think my analogy is if you were looking for an income tax return from uh three years ago in your filing cabinet because you only have it on paper, that would be the analogy with where we're living right now, even though it's I'm I I know that what we're talking about is electronic files.

But once we move these files to the cloud and the tool that Microsoft offers us, it's like moving from paper to the internet when you're looking for stuff.

So we're findings more easily in the internet.

So one of the things I always hear when we do some of these things is there's a a cost savings, but we never even have sort of a guesstimate in terms of how that's gonna save us save us money.

And so I just a lot of these things would be much easier to prove.

And if there also was uh you know a cost savings whether it's just in staff time that you won't won't utilize.

Um appreciate the point.

And I think it's it's uh I thought it would be a complex formula, Ron.

You were in the same situation with the provincial government.

When you make a change, you can make a sales pitch for savings.

But um I do you want to study for that?

Well, no, but it's some sort of a reasonable estimate in terms of you know how's it gonna save time, how's it gonna save money, you know.

Understand.

Uh I've I'm assuming this is gonna be approved, but this was just a a comment in terms of a lot of these things.

There there's always a cost involved, but never any sort of estimate or even a guesstimate in terms of how it's gonna save us funds funds and in terms of staff time or anything else.

When they just said we've got servers in the basement, I cringe, Ron.

So um that's that's where we're we're well behind the time.

So let's go to Ivan and then Council McKinsey.

Just a quick note.

Um prior to to working here, I did work in an office that was fully on SharePoint.

And there is certainly a customer service improvement.

Um from an engineering's perspective, we look at a lot of files.

It also requires us to look at a history of files.

And when you insert your metadata properly for these files, searching for it is a lot easier.

Approving things without having to switch from file to file does save time.

I do appreciate that is hard to find a tangible number or percent uh improvement.

Um, but I will say that uh there there is a customer service component to this as well.

Thank you, Ivan.

Uh councilman.

Um I just have a question about the costs in the from fiscal year uh two to five.

Is that the license cost?

And um I'm curious why it's increasing.

And then how long is the duration of the license?

Yes, it is the license cost, it is ongoing it's a subscription service that's what Microsoft 365 is a subscription service and this is the our our best guess at the difference between what we're paying now and what we need to increase the level of our licensing to uh give us the the rest of the suite of tools that we'll get will do this job.

So I think there's general support there anybody in violent opposition okay so I think we're good there emergency operations center equipment.

I know you've been waiting there, Chief with bated breath.

Good evening, Mayor, members of council.

Um page 35.

Um, I have two projects that are currently in progress.

Page 86, emergency operations center equipment.

Most of the equipment has been purchased.

There's just a little bit uh left.

That's the stuff Troy's been working on uh for equipment for the town hall and the um fire station.

That's a carryover from last year.

Um, second is the fire service vehicle replacement, replacing a 1992 superior one.

That uh vehicle was ordered in October of 2022, and we're expecting a delivery in uh probably May or June of 2024.

So that is a carryover of an approved uh purchase from 2022.

Under the um uh one particular issue under the critical uh public safety building envelope repairs, it's going to be C 133 on page 147.

Um there's a bit of a design and installation challenge and failure on the west side of the building where the suites are.

Uh the doors, um, although inspected and signed off by the architect, there was an installation issue.

They weren't it wasn't designed properly and it wasn't installed properly.

We have water leaking into the building, um, and it's caused some pretty significant damage on the outside bit of an envelope failure and some door failures this will replace the four doors align the frames and uh seal up that side of the building it's kind of a if I leave it I'm gonna it's gonna be a bigger bill than a than a hundred that is a casino funded um uh project and just to go back the um the emergency operations center equipment is uh grant and the fire service vehicle replacement um is a loan but it's a taxation sorry.

That's right.

Last year, council um funded that 100% from casino.

So that that's been looked after.

Please jump in if you have any questions on on anything I'm doing here.

Under required, the fire training ground improvements.

That's page 146.

That's C 132 in your book.

For those of you who are familiar with the fire station, we have a training ground in the backyard, CANS.

That allows our staff to not have to go to Vancouver, Nanaimo.

We do have to go to Otter Point for live fire training.

That's the only place that's left now.

But what this does is allows us to train on the site in View Royal.

So I'm not sending people over to Vancouver.

It also is the area that they use every every day and every night for training, two hours a day, two hours at night for the volunteers and the career staff to train.

And this is money out of the casino fund just to finish off the project.

It's been we've been working on it since we moved in, and we we just keep putting pieces every every year into it to and this last two rounds of funding should finish off that uh that training uh prop.

Uh Paul.

Uh I'm really impressed that we're uh improving this all the time.

Uh is this something that we're able to share in terms of training with our other um municipalities next door?

That's a great question.

So uh between the three West Shore departments, um, each department has chosen certain disciplines.

Our particular training center is designed for the level one basic firefighting operations, uh which include vehicle fires, dumpster fires, um, and uh that basic level of firefighting.

Langford uh has put a burn room into theirs.

Uh Callwood has confined space and technical rescue in theirs.

Um, and we'll be putting a hazardous materials prop into ours.

So the three departments share each um training center, so we're not building a center with 10 props.

We we use ours for ours, and Langford comes over on a on an evening shift and uses our center.

Callwood uses ours, and then we go over to Callwood.

So we are we're intermingling and interchanging, but we're not spending the million dollars per um to achieve three individual training centers.

So good question, yes.

Did I hear you correctly, Chief?

That you we specialize in dumpster fires.

Everything's a dumpster fire, Mayor.

Thank you.

Um I've got no problem what you well what you've listed off any other comments or concerns i think that's casino funded as well having been on the end of a leaky hose um it's not a good idea so yeah i'm happy with this counselor matts and uh if uh you had any comments thumbs up if i had complaints i'd let you know i after that after the chief hit the hit us up for four hundred thousand dollars for staff i i'm still in a state of shock, so that's uh less than two that's less than two hundred and fifty dollars counselor.

It's a good deal.

Um moving on, page one forty five C 131 uh firefighting hose replacement.

We have thousands of feet of hose and we replace as much as we can, but we've come to the end of a service life on most of our two and a half inch shows.

We have to replace it.

Um that is uh a $25,000 purchase, and that comes out of our equipment reserve that we budget for every year.

This one's an interesting one.

Um page 148, C 134, public safety building security gate.

If you're familiar with the building, if you're looking at the building, the left side has an automatic gate, the right side doesn't.

I wish I didn't have to say that the upper right hand parking lot is used for drug transactions, garbage dumping, prostitution.

Uh we've had thefts out of our, and this is all under CCTV.

We we can't keep strangers off the property for some reason.

So the proposal is to put a similar gate that we have to the left with a keypad that'll separate parking lots uh B and C.

Those are the two upper.

The public parking lot would still be open, but the two um parking lots would be gated off just for staff and volunteer firefighter access.

Um, and also with the steep drop-off, I would imagine that uh there's there's all sorts of potential accidents uh for the nature of individuals there and the liability.

Any further discussion on that item?

Seeing none, we can move to the next one.

Uh page 144, C 130.

It's a casino funded.

It is our self-contained breathing apparatus and a cylinder and battery replacements.

The cylinders have a life of 15 years and then they have to be destroyed.

They can only be tested twice and then they're destroyed.

We have we have three allotments of cylinders.

I believe it's 20, 20, and 20, and we have to we're replacing them a third and a third and a third.

And then the lithium batteries uh have to be replaced as well.

It's a bit of a shock that the batteries are five hundred dollars a piece, but that's the it's like marine, it's the cost of doing business.

Oh, my apologies, CAO.

Back in in progress, there was the RCMP building evaluation.

Value did you want to continue with the last one?

Okay, thank you, boss.

Uh last one.

Uh uh.

John, you'll recognize this one.

This is my annual, this is my annual helicopter request is the public safety building landscaping.

Um, on the west side of the building.

So during the project, we um we came within about sixty thousand dollars on the project in the black, but the sacrifice with the landscaping.

So two-thirds of the property has been completed, the other third over on the right side hasn't.

So it's just blast rock.

Um, and uh there's no plantings, no irrigation.

Um, and what's happened now is over time the the fill that was put in is settling and this money the fifty-five thousand is to finally complete the landscaping on the east side or the west side of the property.

Counselor Lemon and then Counselor Brown.

Is that up the hill?

That's correct.

That's the the uh back entrance area and that is the the piece that goes up the hill where the the concrete trucks literally dumped all their concrete and debris and just left it on the on the west side and it's still there.

Council Brad.

Would the landscaping have to be done in 2023 or could we extend it over two years?

We could.

It'll make it a it'll make it a beautiful 10-year project, Counselor.

Like you said, this is my annual helicopter request that I think John or Ron usually cut it, but uh I'm I'm I'm fingers crossed this year that we might be able to pull this one off.

I'd be happier if it was if it was spread out even.

I it Paul, we've we've talked um uh informally, but um you know if it was this helicopter or a drone, you know, I would much prefer you know something that's great, much more functional and and uh applicable to um to the public safety aspects.

And and and counselor brown's uh idea might be worthwhile to spread it out and um and show you work on it.

Maybe we'll get the green team to help us.

I don't think it's a problem with weeds it's a problem with putting something so even weeds would grow do we have any inmates so uh we've got kind of a a thought of spreading this out over two years just to completely extend the uh the project for uh the chief is there appetite to do that counselor McKenzie oh no i um unfortunately no i was uh I just think given the um number of uh projects that we have to fund from the casino revenue that this would be low on my priority list so thank you, Councillor McKenzie let's see anything else so I heard two people speak of spread it over two years.

One person uh uh uh potentially opposed uh counselor Matson, you were moving your hand in my eyesight, isn't that good?

Have you got something to say?

It would be low on my priority list depending on how many uh how many casino dollars we spent.

You maybe we need to park this again.

Yeah.

Okay, there it there it goes.

Just uh you know, not give have you back for a hundred percent tonight, uh Chief.

Uh about seven for eight.

Thanks, Counselor Rogers.

I I knew I knew you wouldn't let me down this year.

Yeah, that's right.

Uh I don't know what Mr.

Heath is doing, but he's a great gardener.

That's a good point.

We can get the boys to do it.

Okay.

That's all I got for you.

So we's gonna be a nice be uh a lean year, quiet year for fire.

Thank you, Mayor.

Thanks, Chief.

And I think uh uh Kim, is that over to you now?

Yes, it is.

I'm here to speak to the um the police items.

The first one is C 136, and on January the 17th, council passed a resolution approving that.

And so we're still waiting for Langford to address that issue.

I believe it's on their agenda for next week.

So I I expect that uh you'll have an update next week and we'll have some meetings.

So uh Kim, just to to be fulsome around that.

So Callwood has now voted to go ahead.

We have given the endorsement, and now it's up to Langford.

Once that's in play, we can go ahead with our our meetings for for what that's gonna look like, correct?

That's correct.

So the next item is the uh the building expansion itself.

Our share of the $80 odd million dollar building is $12 million.

And you should understand that that um that is a debt financing process, and so that means the electorate needs to weigh in.

And so um approval of this is only subject to the uh approval by the electorate.

And could you refresh us what that looks like?

Because that's going to cost us money as well, isn't it?

The process of going to the public.

Sure.

The um there is a I was gonna say there's a brief description in the in the uh in the documentation, but it's not there.

The um the process is it begins with an alternate approval process, and so the alternate approval process is one where the um the electorate is asked to weigh in.

It's not a referendum, rather it's a um a process where a certain percentage of the electorate has to oppose for the project not to proceed.

And that process applies at the municipal level as well as at the regional level.

So if we have a um debt financing for the uh the town of View Royal exclusively, it would be our municipality that weighs in on that.

If we do a regional uh process, which is one that we would prefer based on cost sharing, um again, the um regional electorate of Colwood, Langford, and View Royal combined would weigh in.

If the citizens oppose, we have no recourse but to go to a referendum.

Generally speaking, the uh alternate approval process can be quite successful, particularly when it comes to safety and policing issues.

And and what's our trigger point?

Uh if we were is it a percentage of the combined populations that we went to region?

Because I'm I know for the CRD, we just one did one for the the goose call.

It is and they had to do 33,000 negative comments in order for it to trigger the next level.

Thanks again.

Yeah, it is uh based on a percentage of the electorate.

I can't think counselor Brown has a question.

Yeah, so it's counter partition.

Yeah, correct.

And usually it's well, in my experience, it's been 10%.

So for regional, it'd be 10% of all three localities.

Uh I'm gonna go with Councillor Rogers McKenzie, then Lemon.

Uh so the the um at what point um uh is there an investment from the municipalities to um have someone lead the community information uh open houses uh is is that budgeted in anywhere along this process?

The 1.2 million is going to be the funding for that as well as the design and validation.

Sorry, um, can I just clarify when you um were talking about if uh so when we go to the public, um is it still per each municipality um they're voting, or is it the three combined that vote?

If we are successful in establishing a C or D function for this entire debt, then it's a regional process involving all three municipalities as one vote.

If we're not successful in having a regional approach established, then each municipality will have their own vote.

And if any single municipality declines, the project fails and we start over again.

Good questions, Council Lemmy.

Do we know when the first phase will be done, Kim, and when we want to launch, you know, give an opportunity the AAP?

I'm sorry.

As soon as Langford has made their decision, and if it's all a go, then we will re-engage the consulting company and begin the process with a goal to have a referendum late this year.

So I I don't think I I mean it's notional, right?

That we put the 12.8 right now because we don't know that it's going to get through or what it's going to look like in the end, but it's on the budget.

So we're just approving the earmark for the fact that it's on the budget right now, correct?

That's correct.

Um we are obliged to put it in the budget to have it part of the process.

And we won't see that big lump sum on the budget because it will be a payment, I'm assuming, and the future going forward would just be in a different form.

That's correct.

While the capital spending is here, it will be translated to an annual debt payment.

So the last item for the RCMP is uh on page C10.

And this page represents um more or less significant building maintenance items, significant enough for them to be classified as capital expenditures.

And so if you were to turn to those pages, the right-hand side of the uh C010 shows a table, and that table includes the history of intended spending and actual spending.

And so the 2023 column is roughly the middle of that uh that table, and while the total of that column is 125,000, our share is roughly 20,000.

Sorry, can I clarify something?

Yeah.

Um, so this is for the current building, or like how does it relate to the expansion?

These are all expenditures intended to address specific issues at the RCP detachment building.

The current.

Currently.

Right.

Okay.

So I'm just a bit confused why we would invest in a building that is going to be renovated shortly.

Oh, it's not going to be renovated.

We're going to get a new building.

Yeah, redone.

Yeah.

Yeah, pretty much.

Um, I I think there's a lack of understanding for council.

I think I've got a better idea that they're gonna maintain part of the current building whilst they're actually building the new part of the structure, right?

So it's and that process could take six years, five years to get done.

So we're not talking about why invest in this now.

It's actually the length of an entire person's posting there.

So it could be could be five or six years.

I've got no issue with it after I had to remind myself that they're going to retain part of that building whilst they built the new ones.

Any other thoughts, comments, concerns?

Okay, I think that's uh that's approved.

Mayor Tobias, it sounds like uh I'm just looking at this page and the entire next page.

Looks like you're gonna be hearing from me for the rest of the day.

Uh it's all I've been all the time now.

Well, I'll um I think uh when I when I need to take a uh a drink, Leanne will be able to helped me out in a couple of them.

So yeah, but um, so before I start, um I'll just make one mention uh that uh a lot of these projects um are considered they were uh historically considered earmarkers um they're the type of uh projects where um it was put in the budget uh not to forget about it and so a lot of these are actually now starting to creep up to uh to this year or next year so um as I go along I'll I'll explain that to you uh accordingly.

But we'll start can I just have a general thought because I know there's already been some discussion around prioritization of the projects and I think um one of the things that that there was some discussion on is how do we rate the importance of things.

There's uh I think a lens to say, do we say safety first?

Is that the most important thing?

Certainly everyone can be looked at, but what if if we do have a threshold, then is there some parameters for discussion we could consider at the time saying if if something's not gonna pass, what are what are what are the things that we're concerned about?

The other thing that um I think now's appropriate time to kind of bring it up, and I don't want to throw a wrench in it, is we've got a pool of new money coming for stuff that I'm assuming would kind of go under your grants and aid category for the funding.

That's that piece of the provincial government growing community fund.

Um and the only concern that I have, because we haven't evolved the plan, you did a bit of a study, Ivan, was the noise fencing for Thetis Vale that isn't a plan yet, I don't believe, um, but something that the province is now expecting because there's been a petition of 300 signatures that landed in the legislature.

Um and they're saying um if you're getting this money, the province would like to see this to happen.

So I don't know how we do that right now.

Uh thank you Mayor Tobias and and Kim maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong.

Um, but should it it yeah?

The the announcement came literally like a week ago, I think, right?

So it was it was definitely well um well behind in when we're working on these budgets since November.

So um with it from a from a budget perspective, it's not in there, but should it be council's wish, then I think it might be something we could we could consider for this year given this new injection of funding.

But ultimately it is up to uh council's um purview.

Okay, and I think we've got some rough figures already that you put in, and this was for two areas, and this could be spread over time for both um the handy dart um section uh of the highway as well as the thetaspale section of the highway.

Those were the two things that were identified.

The most important one being the thetaspale side of the highway for the the noise mitigation there, and I think you had a rough estimate for concrete.

And if we went with the echo fencing, I think it's even cheaper than that.

So if we could ballpark something that we could pencil in now for council to consider when it comes to that, that would be great because I think, like I say, that may be from what I understand, a significant pool of money in order to do it.

And I it's not a use it, well, it is kind of a use it or lose it thing that uh the only challenge that we'll have is the announcables for it, right?

I think the province will want to announce uh by a sign or whatever that this is the growing community fund helping view royal it.

Um aside from that, there we're expecting both the formula, the amount the ViewRoyal gets and the specific projects that it would fund later on this month.

But that's about as much as I know about it right now.

Yeah, thank you, Mayor Tobias.

Yeah, it's I think March is when we're gonna get more details.

And um if if there are some other items we can utilize, but because of the budgets are committed in 2023, we do have six million four hundred thousand dollars of capital projects in 2024.

So certainly they could be looked at at that time as well.

Excellent, thank you.

It's all you.

Thank you, Mayor Tobias.

We'll start with a a nice quick one.

Um, this one's Aven Howie upgrades Heart Road at Wilfrid Road, C zero six six on page 90.

And um, long story short, this is a gap in the sidewalk network.

And by doing this work, we would be closing the gap.

Uh after looking at the active transportation, what we heard summary number two, it looks like it was considered a uh a short-term win.

So I would say that this may be a good project to consider for I mean it's in twenty twenty-two or twenty twenty-four, that's when it's scheduled to be implemented.

Uh Council Roger.

So um I'm curious with um what uh the the upgrades uh I think that uh transit wants to do with the island highway and and uh the you know making the bus lanes and whatnot, and and this seems to be right along there.

Uh would we be uh coordinating this with uh their road works uh for uh efficiency of cost we have been in uh review with BC Transit as part of their uh their works.

You're talking about the rapid bus that basically goes along Island Highway all the way to call to Callwood.

Um their sidewalk works don't extend that far.

Uh the with respect to what they have with us so far.

Um they'll be providing sidewalks or improved sidewalks a lot by six mile around that area right where the the bus stop is there.

But at this time it's um it we haven't seen anything with respect to uh this section.

Yes, all right.

Nice try.

So we'll yeah, so that's uh for the next uh next year.

2024, that's correct.

Next.

Any other thoughts, comments?

So next one is on how we upgrades Helmkin Beaumont C012, and that is page sixty-two.

Um just gonna s uh like Sarah has mentioned before, this is a low number, uh meaning that it's probably been um earmarked and just uh waiting for funding.

So and I I think that's exactly it.

The this staff has been unsuccessful in updating the necessary grants to uh continue this or to implement or construct this.

And it is a it is quite a uh a high number, about three million dollars to to construct.

The design is uh and has been completed, uh generally speaking.

And that was done, I believe in 2021 I think is when the design was done um I do know that we have an active transportation network plan that's almost being completed um while there is no uh while the design has been done um I'm recommending that we push this uh construction to uh another year um as shown on this on this page what's the hundred thousand for uh the hundred thousand is to coordinate with the the development that's taking place at the corner of Helmkin and Island Highway.

So at the 2022 budget deliberations, the previous director uh mentioned that there was a development coming down the tube in this area and that there may be some uh design costs from our end associated with tying in the uh existing works to it.

Um, so far that uh funding hasn't been used, nor I don't think it really has been required just yet.

Um, but that said it's there just in case.

But like like I said, the the design has been such that I don't think we need to use it.

Okay, thank you.

Counselor Lemon, then Councillor.

That was going to be my question of how how essential it was that we tie in with 298.

And uh what's do we know our um when the build out will when when that when that structure will be complete?

Yeah, that's a very good question, Councillor Lemon.

It it really comes down to uh the efficiency of the builder, so it's really difficult to really pinpoint.

But generally speaking, for these buildings, it's like an 18-month turnover.

So um and it also really comes down to when builders decide to want to do the financial improvements.

Uh most people want to do it at the very end because uh they don't want to damage that infrastructure as they continue bringing more stuff to to build the building.

But there's also some that also do it near the middle.

It really depends.

Um staff are uh having ongoing conversations with them.

We're happy with what they're doing so far.

They're keeping the pedestrians uh sidewalks clean, uh at least to the satisfaction of us, and we're continuing continuing to monitor.

Counselor Rogers.

So um uh it'd be helpful to uh see the design again.

I can't remember it.

And yes, there's just one thing about um the development on the corner and one of the active transportation aspects was uh should we have um you know that rural old-fashioned 1970s left turn you know up Helmaken to the hospital, or should we be a modern downtown and and make that a hard corner?

Interesting, because it does have some safety active transportation uh aspects to that uh that approach.

So that's one thought.

Secondly, um uh I know that Lyons Cove and the townhouse development behind um will have an interest in having egress left turn in and as well as the daycare.

Is that uh also built into this uh design because they're looking to have another way in and out if Eltham gets really bad?

Uh I believe that conversation will be part of the development of that site.

I believe you're talking about the the development on the corner of Eltham at uh Helmkin, the north uh east corner.

Yeah, I'm not talking about that development, Helmaken and Eltham.

I'm talking about them uh their wanting to have the access left turn that in lane, left and left in, left out, whatever, um, in the design of Island Highway from that exit.

So it's island highway improvements that they want.

Thank you for clarifying, uh Council Rogers.

Um, I don't know at the top of my head, I have to take a look at the design again.

Thank you.

Uh Council McKenzie.

Uh I just want to uh clarify.

So are are you proposing that the hundred thousand would also be pushed back to next year, or would that remain?

Uh I'm proposing to use the least amount as possible.

So basically that $100,000 was meant as a as a town's obligation to tie in uh their sidewalks to the um the the developments sidewalks.

And the reason why is because there is a little bit of a of an offset between the the the future um the future uh corridor for island highway and that development, but because this construction hasn't been done yet, there needs to be an interim tie-in period for that or a tie-in point.

Uh so um it was thought at the time that this money could be earmarked so that you uh a proper tie-in of the sidewalks and the road can be done.

But b looking at the servicing design, we've come up with a solution that doesn't require it.

And I just a general question.

I see us spending a lot of money connecting developments, right?

And not necessarily here, but uh definitely when we get into the aspire development, there's things on the table to replace sidewalk, which is only a short period or a short distance in front of Hidden Oak uh subdivision, I think uh near near there.

Um my question is that should be a developer thing with that much population going in there.

I would think that should have been transferred to a developer to connect those sidewalks, should it not?

Uh yes, and um that project is a developer funded in the sense that it's paid by DCCs.

Okay.

Okay thank you for that.

So pedestrian lighting improvements this is C one zero eight and that is page one sixteen.

So this project was uh previously approved in the 2022 20 to 26 financial plan and included three intersections um to improve pedestrian street lighting to uh to I what they call IASNA standards which are uh general standards for lighting um of our roadways?

And so uh staff obtained quotes at that time, and we only had enough budget at that time to do two of the three.

So uh council made the decision um to uh only do two, and then we will bring the third one to budget this year.

So that's where we're at right now, and um the request is for uh providing funding um to improve street lighting street lighting at Chilco at Lund.

Counselor Levin.

Um yeah, I'm I'm good with it.

I I I have a question.

Um Operational Zero over five years.

Is that because it is that because the lighting is so efficient, there'll be no no need to change the light bulbs.

Sorry, can you repeat the operation zero?

Yeah, that's what it says operational zero.

Because you're saying there's not gonna be operational costs associated with that providing and that that's because because the efficiency of the of the lights, right?

Okay.

Yes.

Um efficiency of the lights cost.

There's there's general, yeah.

Um, I think they said 50 uh is it in this one?

No, it's not in this one.

In the LED upgrades person uh portion, I can I can inform you more on that.

But yes, you you're right there, Councilor Lemon.

Any other thoughts, discussion?

Seeing none.

Next, but thank you, Mayor Tobias.

So the next one is uh C 107, which is the Atkins Road Sidewalk Anya Court to the Langford border.

That's on page 113.

And this project was uh added at the request of council, and it was included in the 20 to 22, 20 to 26 financial plan.

Um at that time it was stated that uh this uh project be deferred until the at that time was a pedestrian master plan but has been since changed to the Active Transportation Network plan um to see where it's where it lies on the priority list.

So at this time it looks like it's thirty thousand dollars for design followed by a um eight hundred thirteen thousand dollars for construction and to be funded by um federal provincial grants pending approval and my understanding is that we haven't been successful in the past for that.

Um, I I would see this as potentially if the uh a prime candidate because of safety for the um money we may be getting in some amount that we don't know yet.

Uh uh, you know, so where we haven't been successful in grants, um, I'd urge council to consider um that uh we would look at uh those opportunities that might arise with other people's money to to solve that safety issue there.

But um I'm certainly happy to carry on with the with this study.

Um other thoughts, Councilor Brent?

Yeah, that's that that's the world where I live, so I travel it often.

Uh definitely to me, it's a high safety issue, should be a high priority.

Uh this the shoulders are like a foot.

Coming here last night, a lady was pushing her baby bug stroller down.

That I thought, oh my god.

And there's always people walking up and down that road.

It's very narrow.

I see there's something here about bus shelters too coming up, and there there isn't enough room for a proper bus shelter there.

When I come off the galloping goose down uh Myra Road there, um it's a good thing I worked in the circus and learned how to tight roll walk because that's you're walking on a little tiny path, hoping someone doesn't hit you and you're walking from behind.

But uh yeah, that's to me that's uh a really heavily traveled.

Um you got school buses, you got uh transit going down that road, uh, lots of walkers.

You got the farm there, which is an attraction for people to bring their kids and grandkids to see horses and cows.

I think we're supportive.

Yeah, I suppose.

Uh yes, totally.

I agree.

No, what's amazing is that uh this was identified as a high priority uh sidewalk in 2008 and our transportation master plan in 2008.

What was the issue?

We just didn't get grant funding for it.

I know.

And so that that's that's a really noteworthy point how long it's been on a sidewalk master plan.

Um, so that's point one.

A second point, um you know what's interesting is that we've got a number of different uh sidewalk designs, you know, Atkins and Jedberg and probably someplace else.

Is there um an economy of scale where we get one consultant that's going to do all three for 50 bucks?

It'd be really tough to find a consultant that'd do all three at $50.

Um that said, uh, I think you read my mind, Counselor Rogers.

Um I'm kind of scheming in my head that it might be worth having one consultant do all three and also maybe have one contractor do all three.

We've I've done that before.

Yeah.

And um in speaking with um uh you know Councilor Brown one one of the possibilities I know the complexity of of Atkins and taking the sidewalk up to and I'm sorry is it my replace?

Yeah taking the sidewalk in in two phases and that's a possibility two phases one to the to my place and the other one up to the Galloping Goose and that really difficult hill.

You know, if that helps spread it out um to the two years, but glory hallelujah.

This is a a uh a project that can only only be funded by a provincial grant.

We have no DCs, no CACs, nothing.

It it can only be done by a federal grant.

So glory hallelujah, the premier's answer our call.

And we do have um active transportation engagement too that will um take a look at priorities.

So we'll look forward to your leadership and guidance for us on this.

Thank you.

I think so there's uh council McKenzie.

Um I just have a question.

How uh sorry, I'm not clear how the sidewalks relate to the active transportation uh network plan, like uh why they're separate.

Like, why are we looking at separate individual ones as opposed to it being incorporated in the active transportation plan?

Uh yeah, thank thank you, Council McKenzie.

That's a good question.

Um, unfortunately, it's certainly something that was uh brought to me before I got here.

Um they were identified likely because there is a uh a perceived need for it, and that's why I was put forward to council that budget at that time.

Councilor Rogers.

Yeah, I'm sorry, Jay.

Just one other um aspect, and again, Council Brown can help me out.

One of the things that with Atkins, we know that there's going to be sections developed or being developed at a later time.

So I think what um the um I'll be interested in in this design.

Um we don't look for a I don't think concrete and curb and all the fancy uh sidewalk standards that we have in the rest of the town.

These folks just want an asphalt um extension you know like uh the good folks in Watkins way have you know they just want what Watches has and uh I I think they'd be pretty satisfied with that and then let the other portions build out.

So as as the mayor saying this is safety first get the uh the baby carriage off the highway.

So I think there's there's um let's just say Ivan that there was an opportunity to start this this year if we got money for it.

We've got 30,000 um put into study.

Would it be possible if there was agreement with council and we had the funding to fast track this one and and start it this year?

Is that within the realm of the possible, or are we breaking um Don's sensitivities and about the budget?

Uh Mr.

Mayor, the budget can be amended at any time, certainly.

If if something new comes up, it requires bylaw amendment, but that that's simply a matter of process.

Yeah, I I think it just comes down to staff and capabilities.

Understand.

Yeah, I just wanted to to ensure that if we had been given the money and they give us a time limit to get rid of the money, I want to make sure that we've got those ready projects that are good to go so we can I can find some stuff for you.

Thanks, Ivan.

Thank you.

So the next one is the LED lighting upgrade C065, and that's on page 87.

Um again, this project was included in the in the last financial plan and is basically an LED upgrade plan for uh many of our streets that use still use incandescent lights.

Um by using LED lights, they do provide better lighting, so it does provide a safety item, but also it has uh cost savings in terms of uh electrical usage.

And uh I believe it says here that the conversion say is approximately fifty dollars annually per light.

I I'm uh happy with that.

I'll look to my colleagues for questions.

However, at some point in the future, and but related, could you give us a percentage uh at a forthcoming meeting, not to be determined about how much of a conversion we've got over to um to uh LED lights and how much is kind of remaining?

I think I can talk to you, I can talk to Ben, our uh public works um deputy director.

Yeah.

Thank you.

And Council Rogers.

Thank you.

Refresh my memory.

Uh is this a are we starting this or are we is this a carry-on from previous um sites locations?

It's a carry-on.

So uh basically if you look at here, this is pretty much a tail end of phase five.

Um from phase one to phase four, they have been completed.

And so the question you'd be asking is well, why is there thirty thousand dollars from fiscal year two to fiscal year five as as a result?

And the reason and what we're doing here is that we're asking for an additional thirty thousand dollars annually to continue this program, um, much to kind of align with what Mayor Tabias is saying.

There's still some lights to do, and it sounds like we're we're looking for uh what is remaining to do.

I do know that uh our main priorities right now are Helmkin and Island Highway.

There's still some quite a bit to do there, and they're our main uh thoroughfares.

Okay.

Counselor Rogers has one.

And and uh I see the efficiencies.

Um, are we uh going to have these lights?

Uh is it gonna be m a lot brighter than uh than the current lights?

Because I certainly had a lot of neighborhood uh concerns about uh the the hydro street lights uh with great glare.

I have one installed in front of my house and my solar lights don't go on on the front lawn when it's on, yeah.

So it's a lot brighter.

Yeah, it's so are we gonna have that same intensity uh issue uh for residents with this um uh plan uh generally speaking when it comes to street lights especially when they're close to houses it's um you want to get an electrical design uh electro engineers are able to uh spec specify certain lights that don't do the they don't back into people's properties and that's probably how we'll we'll go about it I think counselor matts and has a question counselor matts yeah speaking of the the lights I know the the ones that went down the end of Stuart my neighbor complains, or not my neighbor, but uh one of the my friends complained that it's so bright, it's like there's no baffles that sort of direct it down, and it goes all the way out to his front porch, and he says he doesn't even need his front porch light on it.

So that my concern is uh how big a spread is the the light having because I know it's a bit an inconvenience to the people who uh who've had the lights changed on their street.

Right.

I would encourage them to uh contact the engineering department engineering at pureworld.ca and we can take a look at that.

Okay, I will.

Thanks, Councilman Matson.

So I don't think there's any opposition to carrying on with that plan.

Uh and let's uh go to where are we at?

Six mile improvement.

Six mile improvements.

So that's the C 018 on page 65.

And so you'll see two line items here.

One uh the top win, uh $305,000.

That is for the BC Hydro works to take place.

Um, you'll note from the previous uh financial plan that it is much higher, and that was the most recent one we received.

Uh I will say that this is probably a class C class D estimate.

It's got quite a bit of contingency from BC Hydro at this point.

Um it's difficult to uh pinpoint the actual value at here.

So what you have here is the the upper limit for the BC Hydro works, and we are continuing to work with them on this.

This uh six-mile road improvements roundabout project, uh um it is important to us, and we don't want to wait uh that much longer just so that BC Hydro can uh uh get it like they it takes them uh uh quite a bit of time so far uh to do the design.

So what I'm saying is that we may uh decide to um chat with them about what other options they have maybe coming in later.

The uh other aligned item here in the amount of two point three million dollars, that is the updated class B estimate we see from our pr uh from our civil engineer with respect to the roundabout uh construction.

So that is for that works and the design is pro almost tender ready.

Uh it'll be ready to go out probably in the spring.

Uh Councillor Brad.

I'll try not to be too long winded on this one, but I've never talked to any layperson that thinks a roundabout is good at that corner.

Personally, I always thought a traffic light would s have sufficed.

Uh getting buses around that roundabout, and people generally don't know how to use roundabouts for one.

Um I guess people are gonna try to turn left up to Thetis Lake.

They have to go right around the roundabout, hopefully get spit out the right spot to get up there.

To me, if I wanted entertainment, I would put my chair up on the bridge there and watch the entertainment because there's gonna be so many accidents, and really you're looking at two hours of the day where it's absolutely jam-packed.

And people are gonna they're gonna slow down in that roundabout, and there's gonna be a big lineup of traffic.

It's gonna be horrible.

Even the even the four-way stop further up the road, that's horrible.

But wow, two two over two million dollars.

Damon used to live in that neighborhood.

I don't know, you're sure you would have some comments about that as well.

But I uh I know it's already been designed, but wow.

I don't know if the police have an input in that, probably not, because a traffic person would say, Oh my god.

Any other thoughts?

I I know they put a roundabout, it's a bit cultural at first, the one um uh by the hospital in Eagle Creek.

And initially it it was a gong show.

Uh there's no question there.