Committee of the Whole

Thank you.

Uh Sarah, I'd like to call the meeting of the committee of the whole to order for Tuesday, November 14th, 2023.

And can I get an approval of the agenda, please?

Second.

All in favor.

Any opposed?

Seeing none opposed motion carries.

So if you're watching from home, we'll pick up the agenda again at seven.

And there might be some flexibility, but it'll ask for a motion on the fly if there's capacity and Don can get a report in prior to um uh our our break at 4:30 for finance, just to maximize our time I'll bring up that motion then for approval if it works uh can I get a motion to adopt uh the minutes from previous meetings all those in favor any opposed seeing none opposed um I think that brings us down to public participation and we'll go for anybody in the room that wishes to address council on any topic that may or may not be in the agenda.

Anybody in the room which wish to address counsel.

Seeing nobody here, uh Carl, is there anybody on the phone?

Mayor Tobias, we have no callers so far this afternoon.

Okay.

Uh and I think that brings us down to me passing the chair over to Councillor Brown for Protective Services.

Thank you, Mayor Tobias.

Uh welcomed everyone to the Protective Services Committee.

Uh no report, other than it's nice to be back in Canada.

For a while, anyway.

Um, and I'll just uh I see who's first on the list here.

Inspector Rose?

Or is Paul were you first?

I can't remember.

He's he's got some important work to do, I I think.

Spector Rose, please.

As mentioned, uh my name is Inspector Steve Rose.

I'm here on behalf of uh Superintendent Preston this afternoon, who sends his regards.

Um and I'm uh going to speak on uh sort of a quick update um about what the police have been up to so far this year.

So I'll provide some data that covers the period January 1st to October 31st.

First and foremost is in View Royal, our general occurrences have reflected a 14% increase in overall calls for service to the police.

And of those, when we dial down to the founded occurrences, it still reflects about a 10% increase.

More specifically, violent crime is up within the municipality by 30%.

And the top three categories include common assaults, uttering threats, and harassing communications.

If I jump over to property crime or property offenses, again, we've got about a 12% increase within the municipality this year over last.

And the top three offenses include mischief being $5,000 and under, theft for motor vehicle, and of course shoplifting.

And so far through to October 31st, we've had 76 occurrences there, which represents a 23% increase over the same period last year.

Similarly, at the hospital, we've had about 201 calls for service at the institution so far, which reflects a only a 2% increase.

So we're pretty much on par uh for that facility.

Been specifically asked and whether or not the calls in View Royal generally are amplified or increased by calls at the hospital.

And so I would say that 43 of those 205 files that are mental health related within View Royal occurred at the hospital.

So that's about 21% of the overall mental health-related calls.

Unfortunately, we have seen across the West Shore an increase in overall calls for service involving mental health matters.

And certainly the time that we've been spending awaiting triage at the hospital continues to increase, uh, which is concerning for us, as we'd rather the officers be available for the next call for service and on the road versus sitting uh sitting at the hospital.

Uh, last year, 2022, we averaged about two hours uh from arrival until we departed, um, and then the client was either admitted or not.

Uh, this year, year to date, we're at uh two hours, uh two and a third hours uh that we're having to wait.

There's definitely some outliers where we've been there for seven to nine hours.

However, uh currently we're averaging two and a third.

I'll touch on a few of the files of interest that have happened uh in the past month.

Um there was a on October 10th, there was a pickup truck truck stolen from uh the 1000 block of Watkiss Way.

Uh on October 20th, we attended a sudden death on Seymour Trail.

On October 29th, we conducted a roadblock on the Trans-Canada Highway at Burnside and subsequently apprehended an impaired driver who was issued a three-day immediate roadside prohibition.

On October 30th, there was a two-vehicle collision at the intersection of Alder Smith and Admiral's Road.

And again, that resulted in an impaired driving investigation and a three-day immediate roadside prohibition being issued.

On November 2nd, an officer on patrol observed a vehicle parked behind the uh six-mile gas station, and upon interacting with the driver, determined that they were on full parole serving a life sentence uh for murder uh and was to be issued with a three-month driving prohibition, which the officers subsequently did, which was a good proactive uh stop in the jurisdiction.

That's a couple of highlights there.

Um next I will jump over to um calls for service within the Watkiss uh Erskine and Helmcken area, which I believe uh council or maybe a member of council asked uh Superintendent uh Preston to bring back some data uh at this committee of the whole.

So I can report between January 1st and October 31st, uh there were a total of 73 files in that jurisdiction.

And I do have a map that depicts the specific area that's covered or the 100 blocks of those three streets that were included.

There's a variety of matters, although the greatest number of calls for service were traffic related.

And they accounted for 18 of those 73.

Lastly, I'll just touch on proactive traffic enforcement.

I know there's been an ask to create a police presence in that Watkiss and Helmcken or Watkins and Irkson area.

And I can report that in the month of October, our municipal traffic section uh spent just over 10 hours uh in that area.

Uh and they've conducted a variety of enforcement, including uh uh speeding, other motor vehicle act offenses, uh including unlicensed drivers and uninsured vehicles being uh apprehended in that area.

That uh your worship is the gist of uh of the update.

I know I was on a bit of a time crunch today, but certainly open to any questions.

And before we move into that, I'd like to extend the invitation again.

Uh, as I just had a conversation there uh with counselor Rogers, um, that if any member of council wishes to come out and participate in a ride along with one of our officers, we can certainly facilitate that so that you can have that face to face-to-face time with uh with a patrol officer and get to see um how your men and women are are serving the community of View Royal.

Thank you, Inspector Rose and um thanks for the invitation but i think i spent enough time in a police car and that works great does any questions for council uh start with council rogers yes i i wonder if um yourself or uh Chief Hurst could give an update on the possibility of um an officer stationed at the firewall yeah i can speak to that one here to bias thank you thanks, Chair um it question about how you're separating your files, just because i'd like to know, and i know sometimes it's difficult to uh for those files relating to um uh substance abuse or or addiction for your calls to service and those um you know potentially intertwined with mental health.

So is it a mental health issue or is it um somebody looking for help because of of uh drugs or influenced by drugs?

Is there any way to tease that out?

That's a question I can certainly pose to the analyst um that prepares this data.

I know that when um the officers, you know, prepare their report, there is an option to flag whether drugs or alcohol were part of or involved in that particular call for service.

Um it's simply a yes or a no flag.

And then secondly, uh, if there is a mental health component, uh again, there's a flag that can be entered on the front page of that uh that operational file that would reflect that it's a mental health related matter and whether there's an apprehension or not.

Um but that data is fairly generalized in that it may not speak specifically to if it was the subject of the complaint that you know was under the influence of alcohol or suffered from a mental health matter.

It may be uh people on the periphery of that that call for service as well.

It's simply a uh a generalized yes or no as having been involved.

Oh, it'd be fine, thank you.

Okay.

Councillor Lima.

Hi, Inspector Rose.

Thank you for that.

Um, question regarding the hospital visits and calls.

The 201 calls to that you had to the hospital, that's separate from the uh situations where you've been escorting patients to emergency?

Uh yes.

It is okay.

Yeah.

So that would be the 201 would be files generated at the hospital and at that physical address uh for Victoria General.

Uh that's separate from individuals that were apprehended somewhere else on the West Shore and then transported to the hospital.

Got it.

So the so 43 were mental health.

Of those 201, 43 of them were mental health related.

So can you just give, you know, without you know betraying confidences, an example of what the other 150 plus would be like?

Um, I can say that the majority of them are uh causing a disturbance or check well being type files.

Um so check wells uh causing a disturbance would be if a client attends the hospital of their own means or in an ambulance and then subsequently create a disturbance or cause problems or they're shouting or fighting because maybe they're not being treated in a timely fashion or they're not being treated in the fashion that they would like to be treated.

And so either a member of the emergency room or security services contacts the police and asks us to come in and deal with those.

Check well being would generally be someone's been delivered there through some other means, and then we're being asked to go and assess them further.

So they may have made their own way to the hospital through uh a family transportation or a family escort, believing that their family member needed to be seen, but upon arrival, they didn't want to be seen, and so a family member or again the hospital staff may call in and ask us to come and check on them and determine whether or not an apprehension is warranted or if there's some other assistance that can be furnished by the police.

Certainly.

Council, always a pleasure.

Monthly report for September, October of 2023.

Just going through the report.

Staff statistically, calls were on par for last year with a couple of small blips.

Just a couple of things I wanted to touch on before I got into the report.

And if you had any questions, we had our annual Halloween event at the station this year.

Saw probably just over a thousand people this year show up, which I think is the largest we've ever had.

Followed up by the pumpkin smash event, which is a very popular event, which raised uh just over a thousand dollars for uh the View Royal Firefighters charitable.

Um I was in some meetings today just regarding Victoria General Hospital um and their overcrowding situation.

They've hit a critical mass with people coming through the door and then being placed in the building, and they they're running out of space rapidly, and we're seeing a lot more patients in the hallways, um, not getting, you know, trying to get them out of the eMERGE onto a ward.

So we're working with VGH to try and solve that problem.

Um, but as you know, it's systemic around the the region and and the province.

Um you know, if you think about the growth of the West Shore and when the hospital was built in 79, uh the growth is probably quadrupled, but the hospital hasn't.

So there's some some significant issues over there with trying to get people moved and getting them, getting them the care, the dignified care that they they deserve.

Our bylaw officer spent most of the day today dismantling two large camps uh over at uh Atkins and Bryden in the um ICF right away.

So there's been a change in leadership at ICF.

We're working with a new person at ICF and they've become very cooperative.

So they've spent the day there dismantling two very large, significant camps that are in that area.

Hopefully that'll solve a bit of a problem that we've had.

And Brad continues to work with uh our partners at M OTI with the camp underneath the Burnside Bridge, which is very close.

There was about 10 people living under the bridge there at one point, but it's fairly transient.

It moves and comes and goes.

So he's working on that.

Just to touch on something the inspector talked about, as you know, we had uh that unfortunate drowning at the lake um late in the season.

And that was um, we had three near drownings and two or three actual drownings this year.

So it was a busy, it was a busy summer at the lake.

But I'd be remiss if I didn't, you know, um give a bit of a compliment to the CRD with the ranger program and their enhanced work in the park.

I think as busy as we were at the park this year, I think it would have been a lot worse if they hadn't really stepped up their enforcement in there and the and the park rangers.

So um none of these cases, these uh these drownings were related to drug or alcohol or cliff jumping.

They were just simply swimming, drowning deaths, unfortunately.

So I mean, I I think the enforcement's working.

I think you're just seeing a a lot more people in the park.

And I think if you get a lot statistically, you get a lot of people there.

Some things can happen.

Um unfortunately, our overdose, uh, deaths um and mental health calls are up uh in the last two months.

Uh we've attended uh two today, and we're seeing an uptick in in suicides as well.

That was the death in Thetis.

Um, unfortunately, that's what the guys we had to deal with.

Um, and that's becoming more and more prevalent as we get closer to the Christmas season.

People under a lot of stress right now, financially and personally.

So we're we're seeing an uptick in that.

Um, we had our annual banquet on the 28th, and thank you all for attending.

I think that was an excellent event, as I recall.

Um nice to recognize our our current membership and our and our past members.

So that was a good evening, and everyone enjoyed themselves.

Um, we're just getting ready to sort of implement phase one of three of our um sort of our integration of our West Shore Fire Service.

We've been working closely with Langford and Callwood on aligning all our CAD logics and our response logics.

We've divided the West Shore up into nine distinct response zones.

And uh very shortly we'll be implementing that where you know don't be surprised if you call 911 and a Langford fire truck shows up on your doorstep in View Royal.

Um we've concluded that we can't do this alone and and um working with our partners is actually coming together.

So this is phase one.

We'll be doing two more initiatives in the new year that involve um chief officer rotations and duty chiefs and then the sharing of paid on call and volunteer members to supplement and help us out um to do our jobs.

So that's pretty exciting kind of groundbreaking stuff.

And uh it wasn't uh it wasn't September, October, but uh Lamaire and I attended remembrance day uh counselor makenzie was there as well and it was a fitting gloomy windy rainy day but it uh pales in comparison to uh to what our veterans had to endure in world war one and two so it was uh it was a great day we uh went down to the chiefs and PO's and and represented well and met the new base commander so that was uh it was a good afternoon other than that I'm open to any questions you might have counselor Lemma thank you Paul hello.

You um you mentioned a change of leadership at the ICF.

Not Larry Stevens.

I don't know who the name is.

The the the field operations person that Brad was dealing with.

Um I don't believe she's there anymore.

I think she's left.

Okay, so so not not this not the not the CEO.

Our boots on the ground contact is new and we're we're we're seeing some immediate success there in in cleaning up some of the issues.

Okay, good, thank you.

And uh just a reference to the the banquet, thank you for the invitation.

And uh you mentioned something in your address that was kind of alarming, and I I think it speaks to you know the well I know it speaks to that it the hazards you face every time you go out, and that is you placed an order for stab fests.

Yeah, so we've we we've got quotes coming in, and it was a news, it was it was it was interesting.

There's a newspaper article last week.

Uh Pitt Meadows Council just approved funding for unfortunately for ballistic armor for their fire services because of the increased violence towards staff.

I mean, uh I don't have to say it to Councilor Brown, but I mean it's different out there.

You know, people are packing weapons, and and Counselor Kowalowich knows this as well.

It's uh anyone in the uniform seems to be a target.

And um, you know, dealing with the mental health issues and the homeless issues and and some of the people who who don't differentiate, they just they lash out.

So we're looking into that program.

Uh I know there's others that are looking into it as well, but I think it's just becoming a a sign of the times, unfortunately.

Thank you for all you do.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

Mayor DeBaris, you had a question?

Uh thank you, Mr.

Chair.

And through you, um Paul, is there any way to get updated stats, uh, particularly on your response for um overdose calls?

Uh they they may well be in there, but uh I think uh testing my memory to a previous discussion council had, um, and there certainly uh is a resolution on UBCM right now to um have the provincial government um pay for any costs incurred for um any responsive calls, and you know, you could add into that potentially um issues for training, uh anything that we could look at uh for that, because it uh increasingly um with your response time compared to BC ambulance response time uh uh is much quicker, um, particularly on those fronts.

So having that data ready for us um would help support those resolutions and and I think also increase awareness of of a growing issue in our communities.

So um if you could include that in your forthcoming report, that would appreciate it.

For sure.

And currently it's just broken into medical calls, but I can break it, I can break it out into specific.

And I think uh Sarah was uh putting counselor uh or uh Ron on the list of speakers too.

If you're good, Mr.

Chair.

Thank you.

Counselor Rogers and then McKenzie yes uh thanks Paul and um I'm particularly interested in the uh emergency uh program and and appreciate the uh the length um on the provincial update uh their emergency program act modernization that come came into effect um uh November the 8th uh a lot of good details there um and of course it looks like um we'll have an opportunity for public engagement um um um does Troy uh has Troy had a look at this and is he uh thinking of uh contributions and suggestions on how the province can up their game.

Yeah, there's um I know Troy's working on some updating our plan and there's grants available for that.

It was nice to see it finally modernized.

It's been a while.

We're hopeful that the Fire Safety Act, which has been sitting on a shelf for seven years waiting modernization will follow.

But I know the the team is pretty excited to move forward.

As much as things look like they changed, I think a lot of things stayed the same, but it was nice to see some changes and uh some recognition.

Yeah.

You know I I I think two things one of course is um and I'm relieved that the CRD is um um increasing their dam safety surveillance and of course that that includes uh TS Lake and its antiquity factors.

Um the the other thing too is that um um chief I'm not sure if um you or Troy got an invitation but this uh Friday there's a demonstration of the uh drop kit yes with CRD at VGH.

Yep uh Fire will be participating and that will be sending reps to the hospital yeah thank you for uh taking the time I'll be there as well yeah no we we got that invite from Stephen is it King Steven I don't know his name but yeah Troy and uh I think Heath and Jeff will be over there as well.

Yeah so there will be people there.

I guess the looking at this uh the it's kind of staggering to think that um and uh you know they talk about a take and go kit and of the um in that backpack is supposed to be four liters per person per day.

And I'm just thinking of the weight factor and and is where the storage factor, and you know, where we have apartments, small apartments and uh, you know, studio suites, where the heck do they store it really to in that event.

So anyway, all the things um I'm looking forward to hearing from Troy more about.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I just have a question about the public safety report.

Uh something that jumped out to me of interest was the four incidences under the vacation rentals.

Um, because I don't really recall seeing too many of those in the past.

So I was just wondering if that's an unusual uh unusually high number of uh tickets issued uh in October.

You know what?

I'm gonna look into that one.

Um yeah, generally they're they're completely complaints based.

So someone would have to call and say that you know they're they're their neighbors up to something.

I'll ask Brad and I'll I'll send uh uh an email to our acting CAO and she can forward that on what that exactly was, what those cases were.

I would suspect we're going to see a lot more uh in the coming months up and leading up to April when the legislation changes.

Yeah, that's what I I thought maybe it had to do with people's awareness of the legislation and perhaps resulting in more complaints about that.

I I think come April it's it's gonna there's gonna be quite an uptick.

Counselor Madsen on the big screen.

You're like me.

People say I have a great face for radio.

But anyway, so you have a do you have a question for the chief?

Oh thank you for that uh compliment.

Um I was really encouraged, uh Chief, when you told me of the progress you're making or told us of the progress you're making with uh Calvert and Langford in terms of integration of services.

Um I can only imagine the the the time and effort and it's taken to sort of do this and and get this coordinated.

And uh I just wanted to congratulate you because uh you've come such a long way in terms of uh relations between the three departments and the fact that we're looking at integrating the way we are integrating services, and it maybe sometime we can I I'm not sure how far we are away in terms of uh selecting where where municipalities should purchase equipment and w where it's best suited as opposed to each of us sort of having you know a a duplicating the sort of activity.

So I again congratulations and and thank you for your efforts and all the hard work you do.

Welcome, thank you.

That'll be phase four.

That's all part of the fleet and and eliminating vehicles and and figuring out what what each municipality needs to stop you know spending millions on trucks when we have five or six of the same truck.

So we'll be looking at that in the new year as well.

Back to your council ro Rogers, if you don't mind.

I was gonna ask a quick question about uh so Paul, thanks thanks for the update on on the the homeless situation both in the INN and the Burnside uh park.

Um you know, a while back, a few months ago, we were you know thinking and being concerned about uh the issues in our parks.

Uh is that a factor that will come back at a future date?

Yes, that that issue is gonna come forward shortly.

I don't know what you're talking about.

Question about fireworks uh byla I just wonder if our bylaw needs to be re-revised or revisited.

I know the provincial government has s uh legislation of course on fireworks and uh things have changed over time and it seems to be less popular but it's always a bit of an issue uh um yeah I know you're allowed to buy fireworks the week before how and that you're still doing the permitting for people that want to do their own public displays yeah we put out, I think it was four permits this year.

Yeah, there was probably fifty people discharging fireworks.

So it's um, I mean, as you know, there's a complete ban on the sale in the region.

Um, some municipalities are following that and enforcing that, some aren't.

We are.

Um it wasn't a bad, I mean, there were a lot of fireworks discharged, but um, I know the the police got a ton of complaints this year.

And I and I think the uh the whole notion of fireworks at Halloween is losing its uh its shine, people are getting irritated with it.

So I mean I'd like to see them banned completely, but I I don't think that's gonna happen in my tenure.

I don't and I ask because I know uh some people from the community have asked about special permits for certain religious holidays.

So um, and I agree because it not only my police experience, but with animal control and CRD, it just drives animals nuts.

You know, jumping through windows and all kinds of stuff.

But yeah, well, thank you for that.

Any more questions for the chief?

I just wanted to touch one thing, Councilor Rogers brought up.

Um, that initiative with the RCMP.

So that's about space in their main office, and they're moving they're moving constables and members out throughout the community.

Um, we got approached and asked if we had any space at the public safety building.

Uh, we do have office space uh for them working with the uh the superintendent to move a member or two into the building.

Um it won't be a storefront, but it'll be it'll be an office space where they can live and come and go.

So it'll actually create a uh police presence in the community out of that building.

You know when that'll happen?

I'm hopeful next couple of months.

I know they wanted to get moving on it quickly, and uh there was some definite um interest in moving into the fire station, so that would be um of course there'd be some contractual stuff we have to go through with Canada and and our finance department but it it'll be a good source of revenue and also having a um a member in the in the building 24 hours a day.

Yeah thank you chief thank you take care and the next item is the building inspection I don't think there's any uh just a report can I get a motion to receive the report for some move.

Seconder second second by Mayor Tobias.

Oh an impressive um amount of fees and revenue that uh we should talk about yeah project this this evening.

Great.

Okay, that uh I think that brings it to a close, I believe.

Yeah, so that's the end of the uh Protective Services Committee.

Oh I did have a a couple questions, but I've sort of abstract them.

Yeah, no, no, it's my my fault for not being uh more on top.

So basically, uh so two questions.

One of them it says half of the bylaw activities for streets, and then it's called streets events.

And I guess Paul, is that just uh dealing with parking issues?

Can anyone answer that?

Paul Paul.

Paul's yeah, it's gone.

So okay.

We'll be talking about that one.

And the other one I had a this was on the animal control.

I don't know if they're there.

It would sound like you were just about to leave.

Um it said there were uh 257 investigation hours for uh for animal control.

And I just wanted to get an idea of of what that was.

It was like 257 hours out of the 370 were for investigation, and I'm just maybe you have it with your bylaw enforcement experience in the CRD, you might be able to tell us what investigations look like in terms of animal control.

Yeah, it would be a combination, but we should probably get the uh the the chief, the new chief bio officer to come and uh give us a report.

I think he comes every second month.

Okay.

So for the next cow meeting, maybe staff could make sure that uh Mark's here for that.

Thanks, Don.

He he uh I think he may be quarterly.

And the other question we could also uh I'll ask Paul uh to provide that.

We'll provide that when he is checking into the other question that he said he'd get back to us on.

I know the bile officers, they they they well they work a seven hour day and they have a one hour lunch break.

So they they kind of break their hours down.

So there would be travel and time and and time in the office writing reports as well.

So um better off for Mark to come and answer that question the next uh next cow or next time he comes to a cow meeting.

Thanks, Ron.

Any more questions?

If not, we'll close and I'll turn it over to Counselor Lemon.

Thank you, Councillor Brown.

Uh couple of couple of things on the arts and culture uh the in the cult arts and culture story this week.

Uh first is it's the uh What If You Could Performing Arts Society has a full slate of municipal presence.

So we're gonna have a first our first meeting, first ever meeting on Thursday.

So I'll report report out next month, presumably if there's something comes of it, um, and talk to that.

But the big news is our reading center.

Um last Thursday I popped by the reading center because that's manager Christine's day there and to see how their fundraising was going to see if they'd been successful with any grants and uh she said we won't be able to make our rent beyond February and uh that night she said that night they were going to be having holding a membership meeting um I guess a board meeting uh to discuss options and then Sunday I received an email that they're closing and they're they they just haven't have been unsuccessful in getting sustainable funding.

And uh so December 22nd is the last day of borrowing and come the beginning of January they're going to begin their devolution of selling off books um and uh fixtures and so on.

I it's it's especially sad because it's been it's been a part of the community a real core um uh social center for many people for 80 years and for many years of course it was the only library.

I I'd I I was I'd sent uh Maureen Sawa CEO of the uh Greater Victoria Public Library a note after my Thursday meeting asking if if she could uh you know help with some ideas some some brainstorming to come up with with some fundraising possibilities.

And I got a message from her today saying, yeah, Jerry, I'd love to meet with you, but uh it's too late.

Um, but it's too late.

So that's it for you know a Veroyal institution and quite possibly the longest longest run running uh volunteer library in the province.

So that's um that's the news.

Any questions?

What are we counselor Kowalovich?

Probably asking the same thing.

What do you uh what do we have planned or uh have we got that far yet for uh celebrating uh all their hard work?

Well, let's do that.

You know, this this is this is just new.

Uh so I you know, and I I would think if we can think of a way to you know help them, you know, through this stage, help them with their uh, you know, their end of life choices.

Um I I think that would be appropriate, but certainly, you know, celebrating them is brilliant.

Yeah, thank you for that.

Counselor Matson.

Having sort of been on the losing end of this one, so how much were they short on rent?

Well, how much yeah, I I I I don't have the numbers on that.

I you know, they asked for 38,000 from us last year, last spring, and uh we you know we we found 30.

Uh and I gather that if come February they're out of pocket, we'd you know, we'd we just they just didn't have enough.

Don't know.

But you know, our funding is also um on the calendar year.

So they had enough to get through the calendar year.

So I sorry, sorry, I couldn't answer that.

It just seems a shame that for eight thousand dollars this organization is disappearing, and so it's it's sort of I think just it just reflects badly on us for this.

So I'm I'm sorry to hear this.

Yeah, I couldn't agree more.

Any other questions?

Councilor Rogers.

Um yeah, I uh uh Damien says, I hope we um have a uh good strong recognition event for the years of service.

So yes, let's do that.

I have a question about the current library, the G VPL.

Um, you know, it's really interesting.

I was at UVC and their library and uh wondered about all four floors, and there was not a single student in the stacks.

There were lots of students at the desks, but not a single student in the stacks, because they were all digital.

They were all, you know, doing their research digitally, which brings me to GPPL, because I'm much the same way.

I don't go to the uh physical plant anymore.

I go to Libya and and download the books there.

And that's my source.

But I'm really frustrated when you know every book I look for has a 52-week waiting list.

And it's it's so the mechanics, uh, I'm very curious, and and uh maybe if um we can get a better understanding of um uh from uh staff, um, you know, are we limited in the number of digital books that uh we can purchase?

What's the price range, and how can we best if if we have you know so many people, weeks and weeks waiting and and being 57th online?

Um I I'd be curious to see um if we too, as a region, as as a community society needs to shift our um our budgets and um our priorities to a digital provision as opposed to goading occupancy.

So just a thought that um I think we need to have that broad discussion, you know, certainly considering uh the cost that we're paying.

I'll I'll forward that question.

You'll find me in the stacks.

Any other questions?

Okay, that's it for me.

So um who's next?

You're you are.

Yuri.

I think it's me with another hat.

Turning the chair over to you.

As a as a finance uh chair, so um I have no report that I'll offer here.

I don't think we have anything except getting into the first of several uh finance reports for this evening.

Um Don, I think I turn to you for the first one.

Okay.

Thank you, Mayor and uh committee.

Uh this is just our standard budget variants and projects update report.

We bring to you every committee of the whole.

Um the analysis is in within within the report itself, and I'm happy to answer any questions.

I see Councillor Mattson has a question.

Yeah, I was delighted to see that we've got uh a $1.3 million variance in sales and investment income.

So it's all positive money that's we hadn't budgeted for.

So I'm certainly that comes my understanding.

So how much of this will be surplus at the end of the year?

And uh what can we use it for?

Thank you through the chair.

Um I I always am hesitant.

I do expect this question at this time of year, and this council and committee will know that I am very hesitant at this point in time to actually project an end-of-year surplus.

Um, certainly the indicators this year comparative to some prior years are that I would guess we will have a surplus.

Exactly how much that surplus will be is yet to be determined.

And the reason for that is because at the end of every year, we do an in-depth analysis of what uh liabilities need to be accrued that aren't done on a monthly basis, they're only done at the end of the year.

For example, uh, I think that one of the places I identify in the report that uh there is um uh a permit uh building permit revenue, primarily primarily building permit revenue that exp exceeds our um originally estimated targets.

But at the end of the year, for example, we do the analysis that says okay we got the building permit revenue up front but how much of the work associated with that revenue will not be done in 2023 it will be done in 2024 so then we apportion some of that revenue to 2024 and that happens each and every year so that accrual has not been done and so it makes it look like there's more revenue in 2023 than may at the end of the year be attributed to 2023.

So that's my little qualification there.

That being said, I do project that we we will have a surplus just a little bit too early to predict exactly what that will be.

And as to your question about what happens to the surplus, certainly if uh council will recall uh our discussion previously about if the surplus is related to the amount of taxation levied for policing, that component of the surplus will be attributed to the police operating reserve.

So that entry has not been done yet.

And that again, you know, would would you know make the surplus look like it's like greater than it is, and um any other uh surplus, not for any specific purpose, would fall to our general accumulated surplus.

I was what I was really um sort of pleased to see was it wasn't for particular, it was for uh sales and investment income.

So it didn't seem like that was earmarked for anything other than we're selling, selling got more sales, and we're doing a lot better in terms of because of interest rates.

So it sounds like we would have a fairly robust surplus at the end of the year.

And if I may, through the chair, um certainly building permit revenue is a is a component within sales of service, so that does drive some of that.

But you're absolutely right.

Um the interest rates being high as they have been have generated uh greater investment income than we w originally anticipated.

Uh again, at the end of the year, we do have some of our money through MFA in bond funds, which are not performing as well.

And that analysis will be done, of course, and accrued at the end of the year.

So I do expect that um at the end of the year our investment earnings will exceed our targets, and that would go to general surplus.

Thank you, Councillor Mattson.

Is there any other questions?

Yeah, so they you know we had the um uh the building report and I talked about the the permit fees.

Um do we have a similar uh and it's you know quite an extraordinary year uh compared to the uh the previous do we have a similar kind of um uh projections for DCCs.

Development cost charges, and through the chair, development cost charges are not accounted for in this uh report since development cost charges are not revenue until we use them to pay for the item for which they were intended.

So they go directly to deferred revenue.

I don't have any projections on what that is at the end of the year, at the end of uh the year, what our projections are.

Um certainly that is an analysis that we bring forward in the budget document when we bring that in February.

Yes, I I guess that's uh that that's my point.

I know we haven't spent it yet, but it'll be um uh really interesting to see um given uh the extraordinary um amount we've achieved on on permit fees.

Hopefully a similar um uh refueling of our review reserves uh will be shown as well.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councillor Rogers.

Any other questions?

Seeing none, I think we can go into the uh CAO uh report, Sarah.

Thank you, Don.

Do you want to move the receipt of the yeah?

Let's we can uh move receipt uh second all in favor.

Any opposed, seeing none opposed, motion carries unanimously.

Sarah, please, with your CA work.

Thank you.

I will keep this short, keeping in mind what we discussed at the beginning of the meeting, which is if we have you know 10 15 minutes, perhaps we can move an item from this evening forward to this afternoon.

This will be short.

It's a very uh lengthy report, lots of good pictures though, showing you the work that's been happening during the month of October.

One notable uh item I would like to point out to you, though, is uh as you're aware, the province has been changing quite a bit of late.

And uh the report does speak to that with respect to short-term rentals and um the provincial legislation around that.

And we did discuss it earlier in this meeting, and that is in November of 2022, council, right after the election adopted a bylaw that simply strengthened language that was already in existence in our zoning bylaw that prohibited short-term rentals including vacation rentals so Airbnb and other similar things uh such as uh VRBO Expedia Flipkey those types of things um but those so those were already prohibited in in View Royal however we do have things like hotels motels and bed and breakfast accommodations that can still occur in some zones with a valid business license um so we already have prohibitions in place there are no further bylaw updates required at this time on our part um so we we uh did look at the new legislation and it doesn't really have a lot of impact yet, but we we do realize that people will clue in that that things are a change in around us.

Um so but they already weren't permitted.

So there is is that.

Another item of note, and uh Paul had a similar uh observation, which is while this isn't an October happening, it is a more recent event, and that is there has been um a bit of rock hazard identified on the back of Sidewalk near the Callwood Interchange.

So we are on top of that working with a professional geotech engineer at this time to address that hazard.

Barricades are up.

Um we're still working through what a plan will be for that, and uh, as I know more, you will know more.

And that is it.

If there are any questions, please let me know or drop an email.

Thank you, I think.

Uh Councilor Mattson has one, but I had uh a brief one, Sarah, for council and particularly the new members for complaint-driven investigations for our bylaw officer.

So if somebody was to see a listing uh for View Royal, do they call in?

Is it only neighbors that have a complaint against the um against the short-term uh rental?

Uh like how how might that work?

We have a limit distance, is my recollection on the complaints with respect to um suite type of accommodation.

I think is it?

Do you know off the top of your head is a 100 meters?

Don't worry about it.

It is online so people can go in look.

But uh for most bylaws, it is uh no limit distance, but in in this case there is a limit distance, and I believe it is, I want to say 100 meters, it may be a bit broader than that.

I can double check that and let you know that.

But it is a policy that is online.

Thank you.

Uh Councillor Mattson and Councillor Brown, please.

Yeah, I I noted in the report that our building inspector is now past his BC level three course.

So I just wanted to uh congratulate him publicly for that.

It's uh I know that was one of the things we were certainly hoping to have is a level three uh building inspector, and we now haven't.

So again, congratulations.

The other question I had, and it has to do again, sort of related to what the uh the province's legislation that you were just referring to, but I I was never able to figure out how do we differentiate between an Airbnb short rental and a bed and breakfast.

And I don't know if the staff can sort of come up with an answer for that, explain that, and you know, fairly succinctly, I'd be appreciative.

But right now I I just don't know how that works.

Thank you, Councilor Mattson, Sarah.

The uh information will be in the zoning bylaw, and I can send excerpts to um members of council.

So I um uh bed and breakfast.

I've looked at the bylaw and I'm asking it after I've looked at the bylaw because I still can't figure out, you know, if somebody calls their what could have been uh an Airbnb, now their bed and breakfast, what's what would be the prevent them from doing so?

And and so what would the difference be in the two all right?

Well, Leanne has your hand up, but we'll turn it over to Leanne.

She may have the definitions open and certainly a a broader understanding.

Thank you, Sarah.

So uh through the acting chair, um a bed and so the definition of a bed and breakfast is a nightly accommodation and breakfast only for transient accommodation as an accessory use within a detached uh residential dwelling unit.

The owner of the of the um house has of the bed and breakfast has to reside there.

And so the uh owner is renting out bedrooms um and providing breakfast.

And also the owner um it's a home occupation, and the owner must apply for a business license to operate a bed and breakfast.

Whereas a short term rental in Airbnb, it's not owner occupied.

Um they're they're um rented out the full full units, generally not being owner occupied.

So if I have a suite in my basement and I rent it out for one or two days and call it a bed and breakfast, is that allowed if I get a bed and breakfast license?

Through the acting chair, um we would have to look that in relation to the home occupation um requirements, byla zoning bylaw requirements as well as our business licensing.

So it is controlled under those two mechanisms.

Yeah and I I'm not trying to be difficult.

I just had residents ask me who wanted to know if they could set up a a bed and breakfast and I you know have like suggested they talk to staff but I really couldn't figure it out why they just couldn't turn up a basement suite, open up the door and call it a a bed and breakfast.

And so you know, if you could, and I don't mean right at this moment, but maybe for a future meeting, just explain that.

Land, did you want to follow up with some more?

I'd appreciate it.

Thanks, Councilman.

Yeah, thank you, um acting chair.

Also, like with a bed and breakfast, again, it's usually occup um homeowners renting out bedrooms, like so they're not generally not self-contained units.

And uh breakfast is provided as part of that.

Yeah, so um I know it's a I have more question I just asked.

They don't provide a bed and breakfast, does that mean it's a s it's a short-term stay?

Okay, so that's how the town would differentiate.

Yes.

If they provide a breakfast every morning, then it's a bed and breakfast.

Um uh yeah, I in terms of those um those those details, it's uh um yeah, I would have to look into it a little bit further.

So I'm happy to bring this back, or um I'll leave it there.

Okay, then yeah, so I'm still a bit confused.

I one other compliment.

I just wanted to uh thank staff for the very informative report.

Good pictures, nice information.

Thank you.

Thanks, Councillor Matson, and uh go to Councillor Brown.

Is there anybody else with questions?

I know the provincial government just loves to download stuff onto municipal governments, but I could be mistaken.

But I'm pretty sure I heard them say they're going to set up an enforcement division to look after uh looking for short-term rentals, whether they're scanning Craigslist or Facebook pages, uh, local newspapers, etc.

etc.

And I'm pretty sure they said that.

I would hope that's what they they they agreed to do, but um it's pretty unusual for them not to just download everything onto the municipal government.

I think Leanne said to confirm that's what they said.

Uh through the acting chair, that is that is correct.

And uh the provincial government is also amending the legislation to allow local governments to increase the fines um for um this prohibitive use.

Thank you Councillor Brown Council McKenzie did you have a question?

I had a a comment if possible I just want to say thank you to staff.

It's a lots of stuff has been happening.

It's been really busy and in particular I'd like to um highlight the the archival work that happened with the school I thought that was fantastic and it sounded like the kids enjoyed that too.

And also the um the other thing I was really happy to see was about the change to the procedure for public participation and um the residents only having to give their street name.

I think there's lots of reasons why people wouldn't want to share their uh full address in in public and on public record.

So yeah, great job, everyone.

Counselor McKenzie.

Uh Counselor Rogers, please.

Yeah, I again praise to uh staff for um uh now working on the View Royal Park um playground.

Thank you very much for doing that.

I uh I hope that we'll have an opportunity to celebrate with the neighbors because I I know they'll be very excited for this.

So thanks very much for doing that.

I don't see other any other questions.

I was gonna apologize personally to Ivan, but he's not here for all of the work he's done for the storm uh water drainage around View Royal Park because my black lab decided he wanted to rearrange some of the uh plantings that were done, so I got them back into place as best I could, but uh uh it might have had some trauma there.

So good report, Sarah.

Thanks a lot for that, the update and for filling in with your normal duties plus as acting CAO.

Thank you.

Um so now this brings us to uh an unusual place.

So we're gonna move to a special addenda because again we can't go to a closed meeting from a council of the whole.

So what I'd like is a um a motion to uh adjourn.

I guess our motion to recess for our council of the whole, uh, and then we'll start up a special meeting.

So can I get a uh move to recess, move to recess from Councilor Lemon.

Can I get a seconded?

Seconded by Councilor McKenzie.

All in favor.

Any opposed?

Seeing none opposed.

Motion carries.

I'll uh good evening and uh welcome back to the council of the whole for November 14th, 2023.

Um I'll call to reconvene and uh start with a territorial acknowledgement, seeing how I forget it when I initially did it, Sarah.

I'm gonna blame you because you didn't remind me.

Uh, we recognize the Lakongwin speaking people uh known today as the Esquimalt Nation in the Songhees Nation, and that their historic connections to these lands continue to this day.

Uh this evening, we will hear from the public during public participation and question periods.

Just a reminder that council is a safe, respectful, and inclusive space.

And if you wanted to call in and uh enlighten council of your thoughts, then uh you can call in at 778-402-9227 and when prompted, enter conference ID 538-422-319 pound.

Uh at the appropriate time in the agenda, I will announce the last four digits.

So your phone number, ask you to mute your live webcast to avoid feedback.

Ask you not to use your speaker phone.

And then invite you to press star six when it's time to speak.

Speakers will have five minutes during the public participation and two minutes to ask a question during question period.

Meeting will be recorded by participating in the webcast.

You're consenting to being recorded, and the recording will be available on the town's website for future access.

Petitions and delegations.

So public participation period for anybody in the room that would like to address counsel on anything.

Nothing.

No takers.

Mayor Tobias, we have no callers so far today.

Slow night.

Uh Carl on the line.

Do we have anybody?

Connects aren't even playing tonight.

Um Financial Plan Review.

I think this cuts down to you, Don.

Thank you, Mayor and Committee of the Whole.

Don Christensen, Director of Finance and Technology.

If it looks like I'm moving into the podium tonight, that's because there's several items coming up that I will be speaking to.

So I might as well just stay right here.

The first one, as you've noted, is uh the financial plan review for development services.

Now, this is nearly the last one of this series.

If you recall, we've been going through division by division.

The next one that we have is the last one, which will be on recreation and parks and environmental services.

So this is we're nearly there.

We're nearly there.

And as you will recall, this is really to provide the committee with foundational information leading up to the budget, leading up to financial plan discussions, to give you a bit of an overview, a high-level overview of what each division does, what comprises their budget, both revenue and expense, and to provide you an opportunity to tell us or ask us questions about the same.

So development services is one of our smaller budgets.

Although it's not small in terms of what it accomplishes, as I'm I'm sure you're aware.

Rezoning subdivision, development permits, development variance permits, all the all kinds of permits, border variants, long-range planning, such as the OCP, Parks Planning and Climate Action Initiatives, is just kind of gets get you know touches on them.

The other thing that I do need to bring to your attention is that the Director of Development Services and the Division also encompasses building permits and business licensing.

But of course, this is a budget-focused discussion, and those items are not included in the development services budgets.

So don't forget that just like in many of the other divisions that we've discussed previously, there's overlaps and sharing of personnel between functions.

And this is one of those things as well.

In terms of revenue, I think some of the committee will, you know, kind of understand that while uh development services revenue is really quite small in comparison to our revenue overall, because of what they do, and I think we alluded to this earlier this afternoon, um, because of what they do, they do they are responsible to bring in revenues such as development cost charges and community amenity contributions that don't show up in our operational budget.

So don't let this slide saying that you know development services is only responsible for about 1% of our total operational budget.

We don't use development cost charges and community amenity contributions for operational budget, and this is an operational budget focused discussion.

So so, really, from a revenue perspective, um, you're you're looking at a few um development permit applications, which in the bigger bigger scheme of things isn't a huge contributions, contribution to View Royal's revenue.

On the expense side, on average, there are about 5% of the overall operational budget, primarily for planning services, and really a very small component in economic development.

But on an ongoing basis, the economic development component of it is really quite small.

You know, you want you see the budget there for about $30,000.

Being a service that is provided by people, you can understand that the about 63% of the work is done by people, by in-house staff.

And that's about 63%.

Complementing the staff is for those items that require specific expertise or provide additional capacity are professional services, and those will be the consultants.

So those those are you know work together with staff to provide the services that council expects, and then of course, a very small component for goods and services, and that's just the more of the harder goods and ongoing services that we provide the services with.

So I'm certainly happy to uh answer questions that I can, and the director of development services is here as well to answer questions if you have any of her.

Thank you.

This was uh another great brief, and especially um to help me understand where economic development fits in, but it is another hat that Leanne and the team are are actually wearing in this.

Um just a question about the totals when it comes down to that.

So uh we've got planning services and and economic um development, and then we've got a total, and then we've got a total.

Where's the last total coming from?

Is that the whole their intake uh of of um of revenue as well as as what it's costing us, Don?

So I'm looking at let's say the actual amount for 2019, the bottom line is uh 11 million eight hundred and ninety-three.

So where is that number coming from?

You're looking at the expense chart, I expect.

Yeah, so that's our total operational budget for those years in question.

So that's not our consolidated budget that is consolidated, say, with capital, it's just strictly the operational budget.

Gotcha.

Thank you.

Any other questions?

Councilor Rogers?

Yeah, and it it gave me pause to um um uh wonder about you know parks planning being in development services as a as opposed to being part of uh the parks um uh department.

And uh it's I I'm trying to think how if that's always been the case and and um when we do a parks master plan or individual master plans and and um um any thoughts is it it again it doesn't seem necessarily be a a development related um function.

I can take a stab at that, and perhaps if the development uh director of development services may have something to add.

I I I do I do um take your point that sometimes there can be a gray or wavy line between where does long-range planning end and operational or say parks take over.

And and we do talk about that as directors, and we try to uh you know place the expenditure in in the correct place.

And and I think that you know, where master plans are concerned generally, um, we we tend to put them in the long range planning component of the budget, which is a function of development services.

But then as soon as that, you know, let's say the View Royal Parks Master Plan, as soon as as it was adopted and uh approved by council, then the implementation of the plan moves to parks operations or or or capital as the case may be, depending on what is asked for.

So with that thinking then, um development services should be in charge of transportation and transportation master plans.

So uh through through the chair, um so in terms of the the par I'll speak with about parks planning.

So often parks planning involves uh uh the sort of the expertise and um and uh sort of education on um sort of that that planning aspect of of things in terms of writing policies and um and um just those the the the training that is involved to become a planner and um that is it that is sort of m moves into writing policies with respect to transportation planning there's a bit more of a technical aspect to um to transportation and that's why if it does sit better with um the engineering team because of their their expertise in in transportation and um uh versus parks planning it's it's more of a a planning function okay thank you guys thanks for the explanation I get the engineering part uh and just another question for me, not seeing any from anybody else.

Um, in the breakdown on slide five, Don, you've got labor, goods and services.

I get that.

We get professional services, contract services, I'm assuming for 30 percent is that over and above like the capital that were we uh approve for um for a contractor to come in and let's say do an OCP?

Is this uh contracted services beyond that?

Or is it or is that what we're talking about?

I I want to make sure I answer your your question specifically.

So uh a consultant hired to work on something like the OCP would be in this 30% of the operational budget.

Capital development services doesn't typically deliver capital services as being tangible capital assets.

So almost all of um uh what development services do will be on those non-tangible, intangible things like uh like policies and and planning things, which yes, would be in this 30% for professional services.

Thank you.

Any questions from uh Councilor Brown?

I assume that would include people like uh um uh Carl and Esri doing the setting up the room and the the video and and that's recording.

No, that's separate.

That's a function of administrative corporate administration administration.

Okay, thank you.

Move your seat.

Second.

All in favor.

Seeing none opposed, uh, motion carries.

Thanks, Don.

Thanks, Leanne.

Yes.

So carrying on with our ramp up to financial planning, which you will have uh your uh we we had the uh calendar for financial planning attached to um the previous report.

One of the things that we try to bring to your attention every year at least once is uh financial policies.

Now, this is not the full suite of policies that in in uh that View Royal uh you know, and council has approved for View Royal.

Uh I just uh wanted to touch on a few of the policies that influence the financial plan.

Can you just click on the presentation, please?

There we go.

So why are we looking at financial policies?

It's because of the influence that policies have on the five year financial plan.

We look at it now because we are just starting the development of the financial plan now.

Mind you, the directors and staff have been working hard at pulling together estimates for next year.

We're this is starting to solidify even more now.

And when there are questions about choices in the financial plan, where are we going to go?

The first place we're going to go is policies.

Policies are as I'm sure you already know, very, very important to staff in that they express counsel's will.

When council is not here, standing over our shoulder to tell us what choices we should or shouldn't make, right?

Policies stand in the stead and our council's direction that outlast every council, right?

So they go from from council to council.

We do have so so they are they are documented, they're in writing, they're approved by council, transparent to the public.

That's an important thing as well, and they do outlast council.

Council can, you know, obviously change or amend or repeal policies at your will, but that in and of itself is direction to staff, right?

So the policies that I have highlighted that influence the financial plan are the grants and aid one and the permissive tax exemption.

Those are important ones for the financial plan.

Tangible capital assets is more of an accounting exercise policy.

It tells us about thresholds and and useful lives and things like that that satisfy the public sector accounting board standards for tangible capital assets.

Reserves and surplus is also an important policy that you see as a part of the budget package, not as the policy document itself, but expressed in a schedule specific to the budget that explains the continuity of our reserves and surplus over time.

So very strongly influenced.

That policy very strongly influences which reserve gets applied to which project program, capital asset development, right?

So that's a very important policy to guide staff's choice of how to fund things from the different reserves and surpluses.

The asset management planning policy, it may not end up with that exact name at the end of the day.

It is in draft.

Council saw that late last year, I believe, just in draft form.

This is another very important policy that council will be considering, I think either later this year or the beginning of next year.

And I encourage you to look at that carefully because it is the will of council and staff's professional responsibility is to apply that policy as we are building the budget and making choices about the finances in this regard.

Can I ask a question now, Speaker?

Two-parter.

One is like the asset management plan that we have, and I recognize being exposed to UBCM, CRD, we're ahead of the curve.

A lot of those organizations are just wrapping their arms around it now and investigating about it.

So kudos to staff.

Are there other frameworks that could assist the town and planning and policy like many are looking at uh natural asset management plans?

But in general, are there other frameworks that council could uh consider to help staff out in their policy direction to provide you know more more of a holistic um um you know uh philosophy around uh a thing that will probably do us better in the future are are you speaking specifically about asset management for the natural asset management plan but are there other frameworks that seem to be um you know useful that council could consider to to help staff out uh as as even policy guidelines when it comes to it right right certainly um i i can't speak you know specifically to you know anything other than what we have already built the you know kind of the the policy around the asset management framework accepted in British Columbia and and supported by UBCM and and um asset management BC.

That seems to be um the framework around which all most, if not all municipalities are following in regards specifically to natural assets.

I'm gonna have to defer that to a question that when our deputy director of engineering brings the and uh manager of accounting brings the the policy back, I think they can probably speak to that um more than I can at this point in time.

So if you don't have a policy for something, what else are you going to look at?

What else am I going to look at when I have to make a choice in the financial planning process?

Or one of the other directors or staff needs to make a choice?

And that is practice.

So we look at, okay, well, when we did this last, what did we do?

And fortunately, through our document records, you know, we can look back at past council meetings and we can say, and past council reports, and we can say, okay, when we were faced with a choice that was like this in the past, this is how we handled that.

And at a certain point in time, you know, those practices may evolve over time as we learn what works and what doesn't work, and we, you know, build our professional practice that way.

So I'm talking about things like budget variance reporting.

That has evolved a little bit since I've been here.

Um we now have a dashboard that is available to the public, uh, updated weekly on our website.

We report to the committee of the whole every month on budget variance with additional analysis.

We talk about revenue management.

And you know, specifically we don't have a policy, for example, yet with investments.

And this is an item that's been before you in the budget, as you know, that is really something that rather than just kind of go on past practice, we might want to have a policy for that.

So so where there is no policy, we're gonna have to just look at well, what what do we normally do or what is what is a good thing to do?

And we might look at other municipalities as well to say, well, what do you do?

Just as we do when we are developing policies, we look at other municipalities to look at their policies.

The financial planning process has um it's not a lot different, I don't think now from where it was when I got here, what is it, almost seven years ago?

Um, but we we we do try to learn every time we go through this process about okay, well, this this worked and that didn't.

Let's evolve that process and build on what was what we were successful with and what what council was most interested in or what worked best for council, and let's keep doing that.

So so after policy, then we look at practice to make choices about the financial plan and its process.

Any questions about that?

No.

If there is no policy, and there is no practice, what are we gonna do?

And you can see that as I've gone along on this progression, the list of things gets a little bit shorter.

And indeed, on this one, what we do every year where we don't have, you know, kind of a set policy and a set practice, we look to council direction.

That's not to say there aren't guiding principles to what we're putting in front of council to give us direction about.

We will use our professional uh experience and and recommendations to to help inform you about what some choices or implications might be.

But certainly council direction is the most responsive to things in the environment, right?

To to things in the city in the current climate the current economic climate and it is um uh council's direction that will determine what we do for taxation each and every year um you're not gonna have your you you may wish to have a policy but it wouldn't be as responsive as council's direction so it's reviewed and revised frequently and certainly is at the will of council directly so all I'm asking from you tonight is uh certainly receive the report.

That's the recommendation, but now would be the time to indicate to me whether you have a burning desire as a whole to revise any of the current policies to look at new policies that you feel are missing, given that the asset management policy is in progress, and I think it's going to touch on natural assets as well, or even if not at the first iteration, maybe at some point in the future.

Um, or whether there's you're you're happy with the policies as uh they have been serving us well for this at this point in time.

Do keep in mind that if you tell me tonight you want a brand new policy for XYZ, it would likely be a year before you get it in front of you.

There's a lot of research and conversations.

Um, you've seen policies come to you in a draft form, and then you we we send it perhaps to advisory committees, or depending on what it is, uh we send it back for more um iterations, right?

It policy development is time consuming because we want to do it in a very thoughtful, wholesome, um, encompassing manner to uh to get it right, to get to get it right, to make sure it serves the purpose that um it's meant to do, and that is to guide staff in their choices um for for for the term.

Thank you, Don.

A question for you.

Are there gaps currently?

I mean, we we've had some significant challenges with COVID and and a lot of other things that have occurred that don't do nice things to strategic planning.

You know, to put it in finance, that would be mild, I suppose.

But are you um looking at some policies or gaps in policies that that need fixing up or that are out of date or that need a refresh?

Thank you for the question.

I do appreciate it.

In in my mind, the the most urgent policy is already in our budget in the non-core listing, and that is the investments policy.

We don't have, we have a very, very small finance department.

We do not have expertise specific to how best to invest our funds.

Potentially.

I think we're doing pretty well with what we've got.

Could we do better?

And I think an investment policy would help guide that.

I'm I shouldn't be making my pitch for that at this point in time.

It is in the budget planned for 2024, I believe.

Um, and and we will be talking that again at budget time to confirm your commitment to the development of that policy.

Thank you.

And and one other um question that I have that that's more or less related is that I would really appreciate updates on on how it's going, um, particularly with the asset management plan.

Like a really holistic triple bottom line.

We thought this was a great idea, but it's really sucking all of our time to feed the machine.

I'd really love an honest assessment of some of the challenges or benefits that we're seeing for some of the things we're instituting so we can best understand you know the cost for benefit analysis that that we're as we institute and adopt policies and frameworks, whether they're delivering the things that we hoped they would or maybe they're delivering some of the things we hoped they wouldn't.

So any feedback that um you know you're gathering uh on impact on on staff and budget and other things that you don't foresee would be appreciated by me to to look at the the real cost ownership for these things.

Any other oh uh go with uh councillor McKenzie and then counselor Rogers and then Counselor Matson if he has one.

If not it gives him enough time to think about one.

Okay if it's a comment versus a question.

Yeah okay um so I think it it's definitely not a priority policy, I don't think, but the only one I had a little bit of a challenge with last year was the grants and aid policy.

And the reason I think was that it was very broad, which we probably do want it to be broad, but I found it difficult to put any uh limitations to decide what would be eligible and to how much it would be eligible compared to another uh request.

So that's the only one that maybe uh this year when we go through that process, I'll take good notes of what I what I did come across.

And then maybe in the future years we could look at that one.

If I may make a comment on that, you will see, I believe, if you were to look at several municipalities and even regional districts about their grant and aid policy.

One of the most, um, only because it it is so meaningful, I think, to the constituents, right?

I would agree that our grant and aid policy, View Royal's grant and aid policy, does not provide specific guidelines around what types of initiatives would be supported by grants and aid.

I have seen more narrow grant and aid policies that say they must meet this specific criteria, you know, they must be for recreation or they must be for um community, you know, just narrow criteria around we're only going to give grants and aid to this sort of a mold, this sort of a uh uh initiative.

Um but that may be intentional.

It it does provide then the flexibility for council to award grants and aid on the merit that they deem worthy at the time when you're considering the grant and aid application.

What I do appreciate about the grant and aid policy as it is is it does have specific criteria around the components that build the application, such as, you know, who is it?

Do you have a board of directors?

Provide us your financial statements, provide us, you know, materials that you've used in the past, you know, promoting the town of Uroyal when you have gotten a grant and aid in the past, and that and that sort of thing.

So there are some mechanisms in the policy that I think are very, you know, do uh provide transparency and accountability to the rest of the residents for organizations that receive a grant and aid.

And I think that's that's a strength of this policy.

Um and the choice around whether or not you want to narrow the criteria about who gets one and who doesn't is is certainly the discretion of counsel.

Council Rogers, please.

Uh yeah, I had similar questions about the grants and aided.

Um at the top three are are uh policies that are going back to 2012.

And um you would think that there might be some evolution, some new details, and and we've seen certainly seen that in the Grand Sun Aid.

Um suddenly we'll have cops of cancer warning um donation for a table, and and they didn't fill in the form.

They didn't give us last year's statement, they didn't give us the et cetera, et cetera.

And really, no, not that we really expected it.

The same thing that we know we were very generous to support the uh the girls' baseball.

So suddenly they could go to the nationals in Winnipeg.

Um and you know, so I think there's these these one-offs, and um, and you know, I I do hear from applicants that this was an onerous process.

All I wanted was $250, and uh and I had to go through all these hoops.

So maybe we do want to review that depend uh under this particular circumstances that make such logical sense.

Uh so um it's not a burning issue, but uh now that you raise it, I think it it is a um something that's worthwhile.

The um one of the um really important policies that we've done is the uh reserves and surpluses.

You know, it's a Bible, it's amazing, and it really helps to set me uh set me straight uh on the points.

Um and I wonder if we're doing when we do the assets management planning, it's in progress.

Will it result in a bylaw?

I at this point in time I don't believe it's going to lead to a bylaw.

Or policy.

It's certainly a policy.

Okay.

It will be a policy.

It will be a policy approved by council.

And um I think it will be one of the most important policies that we we will have.

When when we do we anticipate seeing it will it be available for us in this budget year.

I don't know when the draft policy will be released and how much in advance of the uh committee of the whole meeting that it is planned to be presented at certainly something that I can find out.

My understanding is that we expect to bring it to the Committee of the Whole in January.

Yeah.

Maybe if we can at least take lessons learned in in progress.

So that would help us.

Thank you.

Thanks, Don.

One of the things that um I've been thinking about, particularly with the grant and aid, is um that there may be separate types of grants and aids, like I think uh counselor Rogers had mentioned below a certain amount or for a certain thing.

Um, these are requirements above that, then those are the requirements.

But you know, notionally we're also talking a little bit around some of the grants and aids around heuristics, uh and that what what are our guiding principles of our grants and aids?

Like um some discussion about some of the things that we're giving grants and aids to, but they're regional or provincial in nature and not view royal in nature.

Um, do that, does that determine a consideration for for us?

Or or they could even be uh a decision for a grant and aid to the Ukraine or or or whatever that some councils have also uh entertained.

So um, yeah, I'm looking forward to that discussion around particularly grants and aids because uh I I think we've gonna done a good job as a council for the things that we've decided.

Some of them have been debated uh very well, and uh, and those things that everybody's thinking have come out.

But I think to guide us a little bit better, we could wrap it up with some best practice and and uh maybe some categorization.

But thanks for this, Don.

Yeah, I I did have a comment, and I just wanted to uh congratulate uh Dawn and her team for the rigor that they've put into some of our processes, which you know, I know Rogers and I have been there for quite some time, and uh things have certainly changed uh over the years in terms of the information available and um especially in terms of some of the planning and and and budgeting that uh it wasn't there before.

And so I again kudos to Don and her staff, and I think she's doing uh an amazing job.

So I just wanted to express my appreciation.

Thanks, Councilor Matson.

I think it's moving on to your next one, Don.

If if I may, uh uh Chair, have a resolution directing if can if it is council's will that we uh look at revising uh the grants and aid policy.

If I had a resolution, it would hit the action list for me.

All in favor.

Seconded.

Any opposed?

Not opposed.

Is that good enough?

Perfect.

Thank you so much.

The next um on your agenda, if if um I have your will to proceed, Chair.

Please.

Financial planning targets.

Now this is an interesting one, and we um I I don't believe uh we did this last year as a part of the financial planning process, uh, only because of the timing of the election.

So we did skip a year of this conversation last year, so there will be several here at the council table that won't have been involved in this conversation.

Bottom line, I am looking for a number or a range of numbers within which council would like to see the 2024 tax increase.

Now that's that's my short answer.

Well, and that's because that's because we always do a five-year plan.

And 2024 is year two of the current five-year plan.

In year two, we projected a 10.8% tax increase.

So that is how your financial plan is currently.

My question to you today is: shall we proceed on that basis?

Or, and at the bottom of page two of the report, would you like to see?

And there are four options presented to you: being to reduce service or service levels, to reduce reserve contributions, to increase the draw from surplus, or to increase the reliance on casino revenue for operating.

And in that table that complain that contains those four options, there are some pros and cons about those, you know, some very briefly the implications of making either of those choices, either one or more of more than one of those choices.

So I this this is a tough conversation.

I appreciate that.

And and the reason why we're asking and we're asking now is because without any different direction, staff will assume that there are no change in service levels.

So if we mowed the grass in parks every week through 52 weeks a year, and I don't even know what it is, don't ask me, then we are assuming that you want us to fund that for 2024 and future years.

If you want to cut that in half, now is the time to tell us.

And then we will bring you a the at the initial draft a budget with those changes in service levels.

Um can I ask a couple of questions first?

Does this include and I know you've probably already accommodated for the expense of the um the new police building.

So in the current financial plan, there is in the capital plan, the construction project and the debt financing is in the operational plan of the budget.

Yes, those components are.

That is not included in there, but yes, some nominal um uh uh amount certainly should be should be in there uh going forward.

Um at the now I'll I'll I'll give you a little heads up that at the next council meeting there will be a report that talks about the uh debt financing discussions that have been had with um the the steering committee on that topic.

Thank you for that Don and the other part would be would that also reflect changes and increases to the fire department's operating costs for extra labor.

Typically, what we do when any department proposes additional staffing increases is we put it in as a non core item, as that is a choice uh of councils whether to build that in or not.

And I believe that was a component in the current budget to increase the fire personnel.

So that is already in there.

Um we may have some adjustments to the uh estimate for what those costs.

I haven't looked that closely at it yet.

Um, but that that is already in the five year plan.

Perfect.

And and my last question is Leanne, you probably don't need to answer this one, but uh certainly with the current legislation, it has a new housing needs report and a new OCP on the agenda for very short timelines.

And I know we had notionally provided some plan for those as well.

Um, could those be accommodated in the current budget without uh altering it?

A little bit tough to answer that one since I don't know exactly what all of those implications are.

I will say that for I mean we're we're gonna have to do some some thinking and and talking about uh for uh any kind of an exercise that we know needs to be done on a more frequent basis than we've done it in the past.

Is casino revenue still a good funder for that activity?

Since the more we rely on casino revenue for operational type of activities or recurring activities, we kind of erode our own sustainability, financial sustainability.

And we've talked about financial sustainability before, about how we try to best match the type of revenue with the type of expenditure.

If it's something that you may or may not really be able to rely on, then to the extent that you're counting on that to do things that you know you have to do each and every year or even every other year, what happens if that revenue source dries up?

Then you have potentially a tax hit that you may or may not be happy about.

So I I just I just um add those notes.

Um, yes, in the current financial plan, there is a non core project for the OCP.

It wasn't scheduled for every other year.

And um, I don't believe it's a large a large amount.

So that's that's a conversation that should be had to understand better how how frequent we need that, how are we going to deliver that?

Um, and and that'll be up to uh you know the director of development services to to try to um explain the you know the optimal way to do that.

And once we understand that, we can assign a uh source of revenue that matches that that it that supports financial sustainability.

Thank you, Don.

Now that uh just looking at the the big picture and have we uh we we did this plan a year ago, there's been quite a few changes uh with things, and I just wanted to make sure that does this plan uh reflect those current changes and you satisfied me in that councillor Brown and then Councillor Lemon, please, and then Councillor Rogers and Councillor McKenzie.

Future care, to course is the the population.

When we had 15,000, we have to start paying 90 percent instead of 70 percent of the policing cost.