Public Hearing

Okay, thank you, Sam.

Good evening, everybody, and welcome.

I'll start the meeting just by acknowledging our friends and neighbors, the Songhees and Esquimalt First Nations on whose traditional territories View Royal is.

Councillor Lemon sends her regrets tonight for both the public hearing and the council meeting.

And we're we're starting tonight with a public hearing and then segueing into the council meetings.

So I have a statement to read.

So this public hearing is called to order.

It is being convened pursuant to the Local Government Act and is being held under the auspices of Ministerial Order M192 due to the COVID-19 pandemic and the public health officers' orders.

The proposed bylaw has been introduced and has received second reading of council.

Before the bylaw can legally be adopted by council, it must receive two more readings.

Your input via the public hearing process is more most important to counsel in making a decision.

At this public hearing, any person who believes that their interest in property is affected by this proposed bylaw shall be given an opportunity to be heard.

However, it is important that all those who speak at the meeting restrict their remarks to matters contained in the bylaw.

This evening we will hear presentations from staff and consultants on behalf of the applicant, and then we will hear from the public during the comments from the public portion of the agenda.

And it is all on your screen how to call in for the meeting, and I'll go through it again when we get to the that portion of the agenda.

Members of council may, if they wish through the evening, ask questions of you.

However, the main function of council members this evening is to listen to the views of the public.

It is not the function of council at this public hearing to debate the merits of the proposed bylaw with individual citizens.

Like all public hearings, this meeting will be recorded to aid in accuracy of minute takings.

By participating in those webcasts, you are consenting to being recorded, and the recording will be available on the town's website for future access.

After this public hearing is concluded, the council may, without further notice, give whatever effect council believes proper to the representation made of this public hearing.

The public is reminded that after the public hearing, council cannot hear any new information until a decision about this application is made.

So I guess I should, after having done that, I should ask for approval of the agenda.

Thank you.

All in favor, proposed, that's carried.

And then I'll turn to the senior planner for the notice of advertising.

Thank you, your worship.

This is uh Jeff Chow, your planner.

The notice that advertises public hearing was posted on the notice board at the town hall and on the town's website on January 19th, 2021.

The notice was mailed to 841 residents on January 20th for those uh properties within a 400-meter radius of the property.

The notice was also advertised in two consecutive issues of newspaper being the Times colonist on Wednesday, January 27th, and Thursday, January 28th.

That concludes the notice of advertising.

Okay, thank you very much, staff.

And then we'll go straight to 4.1, which is the staff presentation on the project.

Thank you, Your Worship.

I am just loading up the presentation now.

And hopefully everyone will see the screen now.

So the uh this is a public hearing for two bylaws at 298 Island Highway.

Uh the official community plan amendment bylaw 1060 and zoning bylaw amendment bylaw number 1061.

This in this presentation will cover describe the two bylaws, the general development concept, um, a covenant that's proposed to be registered in conjunction with the rezoning bylaw.

Summarize the uh analysis and discussion from several staff reports on this uh on this proposal, and after that, the applicant will also have uh their own uh presentation.

So official community plan bylaw 1060 proposes to change the land use designation for 298 Island Highway from neighborhood mixed use to a new neighborhood centered land use designation that would support commercial and residential use, buildings up to six stories, and a three to one floor space ratio.

On the screen there, you'll see a little excerpt from the official community plan showing the existing neighborhood mixed use designation of the property.

It supports the same type of uses.

The difference is that instead of three stories, the new designation would support six and would support a 3.0 floor space ratio instead of 1.5.

This is the the property is currently within this development permit area, but with the change in the in the land use designation, the same development permit guidance would apply to this property and in principle the development permit area guidelines uh regulate the form and character of development of the property including uh the form of the building the sort of the landscaping the uh the pedestrian orientation and a number of other design things that would be looked at at the development permit stage zoning bylaw 1061 uh is to rezone the property from the existing C1 community commercial to a new zone called uh comprehensive uh CD26 Island Highway Helmcken comprehensive development uh zone this the this new zone would permit a neighborhood grocery use, which has size limitations and a described number of accessory uses.

So bakery, cafe, and delicate delicatessen can be within the neighborhood grocery.

It would also permit a residential apartment type use.

The grocery use would have to be located only on the first story, and the hours of operation would be limited to between 6 a.m.

and 10 p.m.

Should be noted that under the current C1, the commercial community commercial zone, all those commercial uses on that in that zone, those also have hours of hours of operation.

Those are only between the hours of 6 a.m.

and 11 p.m.

Here are a number of other regulations for the existing and proposed zone.

Basically, the intent is to accommodate a up to a six-story building on the site with a number of setbacks that allow it to be closer to the to both Island Highway and Helmcken Road.

A covenant is proposed to be registered along with the zoning bylaw, and that would be to secure a community amenity contribution of $3,500 per residential unit prior to issuance of a building permit.

So if so this proposal uh for the development concept is for 54 units, uh, and that would mean a community managed contribution of $189,000 for this development if 54 units gets built.

Uh we would also include a requirement for the neighborhood grocery not be part of a major chain.

And there would be road dedication for a portion of sidewalk that currently encroaches on the property.

I'll show you that on the site plan in a little bit.

So the development concept is for a six-story building where the upper two stories would be set back.

The ground floor would be almost 6,000 square feet of commercial use, and that's proposed to be that's in this zone.

That's specifically a neighborhood grocery, so something akin to the Red Barn Market.

Upper floors would consist of 54 apartment units, and there would be two levels of underground parking below.

This development concept is at this point just a concept and would be looked at more carefully after the rezoning at the development permit stage.

So the purpose of the official community plan amendment is to allow the rezoning to occur, and the rezoning is about building height, it's about how much square footage can be built and the uses on the property.

So the actual design again is at the development permit stage.

This is the site plan of the property showing island highway along the street, and there would be surface parking accessed from Island Highway, right in, right out only.

There would be underground parking access from Helmcken Road, that would be right in, right out only.

And that would accommodate the residential units and some of the commercial spaces.

This along the island highway, there's a very wide boulevard, and the proposal is to construct a pedestrian plaza in that area.

And that would create a gathering place for people in the neighborhood and allow people to sit outside the grocery store.

At this point, this site plan is conceptual and there's a number of things to sort out in terms of uh liability and and and how how the site would meet uh we town requirements.

But again, those will be kind of finalized at the development permit stage.

But the concept is for because there's much space there to make uh to make a kind of a larger pedestrian area on the left lower left-hand corner you'll see the in red the little sidewalk encroachment that would be uh be uh dedicated as road so that it is fully on public property.

Here are some uh renderings of the building from the island highway frontage and the Helmcken Road frontage uh they show a little bit how the building would step back a little bit from the street just so that the the height of the building is is not a sheer six-story uh um uh wall at the pedestrian level, but more like a four-story building and at the street level that is case because they are all the upper floors would not be not be as visible or imposing.

There are some other renderings and some concepts of what the uh pedestrian plaza could look like.

The uh the summary of analysis discussion will cover the official community plan context and traffic and servicing.

The site is within the Helmcken Harbor community corridor.

It's identified in the official community plan as an area where uh additional density is uh is supported, including commercial type uses that create kind of a kind of almost like a high street that would provide a backdrop to the neighborhood, single family neighborhood in behind.

And this new neighborhood center designation would be uh would be a larger manifestation of that.

In the purple is the neighborhood mixed use designation, which shows it's not just this property but other properties around that particular intersection.

So it becomes like a neighborhood node.

It includes the properties, single family properties that are currently single family and a medical clinic in behind on Eltham.

And further beyond that are uh multi in the MR land use designation are properties that are designated for mixed residential use.

So apartment just as townhouses are supported in the longer term.

So this is an area of change, and this uh this this is kind of the kind of would be the kind of the second major development uh on on this on this corner um after Helmprin Square across the street the official community plan context consideration could should also be made one of the policies is that whether the mixed use intensity would be appropriate for the quarters lot sizes and adjacent residential areas the proposal is for uh 3.0 floor space ratio which on this property at 54 units would would mean um almost 300 units per hectare compared to a number of other developments uh down the street lines cove is at 80 units per hectare the Maija London is at 220 units per hectare.

And the Skyview project, which is um a project that's uh that's currently undergoing demolition and construction at 242 island highway is a is almost 200 units per hectare.

The unit the units uh units per hectare sounds high, uh but in terms of the actual number of units, we're locking about 54 residential units in this proposal compared to the the other projects where the the where Lions COVID is 66, but the Maija London has and Skyview both have 37.

Uh at this point I will turn the presentation over to the director of engineering who will talk about traffic circulation and servicing.

Thank you, Jeff.

John Rosenberg, Director of Engineering.

Um just some summary and then a few key points.

Uh traffic counts were performed by the uh developer uh as well.

He took data that the town had and the existing data from the Capital Regional District as well, and then he adjusted that for accuracy as the times that the counts were taken for the town were in the summer, and the counts the developer took uh were during COVID time.

So those needed to be adjusted in using the regional counts that helped to adjust them for accuracy.

There were concerns over the increased neighborhood cut-through traffic.

Um that traffic should generally, when people are heading to the west, um, it's calculated that the people would go up to Pheasant Lane to the uh roundabout, come back down and then head west on Island Highway, as opposed to the concern about Rudyard and Stormont.

That distance would be significantly longer.

It has traffic controls that would slow the vehicles down with regards to stop signs and a traffic light, and I believe five speed humps.

So it's not likely that a westbound traffic would uh desire to go Rudyard or Stormont.

Um if they're heading east, other than something local, like perhaps Admiral's Walk, it's likely they would head to the TCH.

Um, or alternatively, they could use Rudgyard Storm Arn and then head down Island Highway.

But it's uh anticipated that they would head out to the TCH to head downtown.

The various mitigations that were concerned are considered was a roundabout at Eltham.

There's certainly not enough room there.

There's a leg disparity with regards to traffic volume flow.

And then sight lines are bad with regards to horizontal and vertical curve deflections.

The removing of the right lane on the westbound island highway movement was also considered.

This would uh increase queue length significantly, and it would also create more negative benefits than positive ones.

And then they also looked at reconfiguring the intersection at Island Highway and Helmican, um, suggesting that they'd have two straight-through lanes that would create a merge uh going forward uh west of the intersection.

Um, that certainly would create a less safe uh driving experience as well as create merge legs and conflicts and would require the purchase of uh private uh land.

So that was not uh a good suggestion as well.

As well, it would cause uh problems with regards to the other intersections at Stewart and Beaumont and Stormont uh up the hills.

So that was not uh considered.

Um left turns in the site or out of the site.

That's physically restricted on Helmcken.

Uh we put in an actual concrete curb and then put a couple of knockdown posts on top of it so that would physically prevent that movement from occurring on Helmcken.

And then with regards to the island highway, the ultimate design actually shows uh uh rain gardens and then also uh turn lanes.

So again, it wouldn't physically be able to make the left turns in or out for that intersection.

Uh the TIA was reviewed by a third party uh bunch consulting Engineers on behalf of the town, and they validated the results and uh for the most part agreed with the recommendations that were contained within the traffic uh analysis.

With regards to servicing, there is additional serve sewer demand for the town.

Uh, we did have that uh reviewed by the developer, uh, and we agree that there is allocation with regards to the our sanitary sewer system and adequate capacity in the sanitary lift station.

Um, we certainly need to do some more work once uh we get further along in the process for the actual design of the servicing concept.

And there currently is a service uh line in the back rear of the lot that is contained within a statutory right-of-way of the rear lot line, and it looks like there will be capacity issues there, especially in the long term when the properties north of the development get uh developed to their um ability on the OCP as well.

So it's likely we'll have to remove the existing sewer line and that statutory right-of-way and increase the size.

Um other than that, there's CRD water, which would require the CRD water to confirm, and they have on a conceptual basis confirmed fire flows and adequate capacity for the water line.

Thank you, Director Rosenberg.

So is that that's the end of the staff's presentation?

That's correct, Hero.

Uh the worship.

Okay, so before we move on to the applicant, are there any questions for staff?

Okay.

Okay, Councillor Kualovich.

Thank you.

Um Director Rosenberg, and I uh I'm glad you talked about it, but from your perspective, the concerns with the the sewer um and that being potentially overburdened in the future, um, that's concerning.

Uh just wondering kind of where where we're at as a town with with this development and how significant that is when you're looking at this.

Uh certainly that from a town perspective, there's no concern uh within our uh right of way out on Helmcken and uh down to the lift station.

The lift station's been proved to have adequate capacity.

Our sewer main lines within the the streets have adequate capacity.

It's really a service line that runs perpendicular to our main line that is serviced by the right now the restaurant and then the three individual houses and Lyons Cove.

Uh all work and function fine for now.

And probably likely with the new development, it would function fine.

But if and when the three single-family houses on the backside uh develop in future and go to four stories or whatever may occur uh at that time, that line would likely need to be increased, and it would be very difficult to increase that line size uh once the development at 298 is done.

So it'd be a requirement to do that capacity increase now during this construction period rather than at some future date when it would be uh extremely difficult to do that work then.

Thank you.

Very astute of you also to notice that the houses in behind, as we're all aware, one of them recently did apply for some rezoning.

So we we know that that's something that people are desiring in the future.

Who's responsible ultimately for paying for upgrading this line?

And if it's not upgraded now, and down the road, we decide our future councils decided to develop houses in that area.

Uh it's been designated as an area for higher density.

Who's responsible to to fix it ultimately?

The developer in every particular case, in this particular case, it would be staff's recommendation that occurs now.

And then whether it has the opportunity, and we'd have to investigate this to put a latecomers fee on it for the future developments, where they would then pay their fair share of their half of the pipe, where they would virtually back onto that sewer pipe, and they would pay that future developer.

And usually that occurs within a 15 year span, they'd be obligated to pay for their share of the cost of that installation.

And if it happened after that 15 years, then they would get it for free.

And my last question about this I'm I'm assuming this would cause uh disruptions to the traffic flow, pedestrian cyclists in this intersection.

Where does this pipe exactly run and how much disruptions would you anticipate?

And what would be the general cost of something like this?

I'll leave the general cost question last.

Disruptions wouldn't be too onerous.

It is on the back side of the restaurant.

So it is basically between the current restaurant now and the back lot lines of the houses that are on the street or on Altham that back that front onto Altham.

So the majority of that work wouldn't cause any uh issues on the street until they get out to the road.

The sewer line is in the middle of Helmcken.

So when they get out into the road, I would anticipate that a connection of that size would probably take a day, maybe two at the most.

Um so it wouldn't be much.

And it'd be very difficult to put a a a cost uh to that sewer line.

But uh if you if you you know, I don't know if it it shouldn't need blasting because the line's already in, so it's just a matter of digging it up.

I don't actually recall the depth of the line, but I I I would say, you know, if you if you wanted to think about a number, I'd say fifty to a hundred thousand dollars.

Thank you, Director.

Uh thank you.

Um Sir John, I'm just wondering, you the fifty to 100K will we be something be sort of uh will it be written such that all the costs are paid by the developer on this, irrespective of how much how much they are?

Uh this certainly would not be a fee that the town would uh be uh joining in as a party uh on the financing.

Correct.

And the other question, I mean, uh some of uh the neighbors I've run into have had questions about the parking.

So how many cars will be sort of going in and out of that building on in the course of a day?

And is there sufficient?

I I guess the concern is there's will it be causing blockage to the other traffic sort of going in and out, or how's that gonna work?

And and is there enough room for them to sort of get back onto Helmlikan and proceed towards a squimalt, and or not a squai malt, but to Calwood, etc.

Or do they have to uh turn right at the on Helmican?

Definitely have to turn right on the Helmican.

Uh traffic volumes, although I I can appreciate that at 54 units, it sounds like a lot of units when there's just three houses behind there.

Um Lions Cove has significantly more units than 54.

Um as well.

The the restaurant already has some commercial activity.

I couldn't tell you what kind of uh commercial activity that restaurant contains, but you have to keep in mind that Helmcken Road runs five to six thousand vehicles a day.

Island Highway runs in excess of 10,000 vehicle trips a day.

Um this development would be in the hundreds with regards to trips.

You know, I I can't speak to the red barn.

I mean, if it's successful, I mean there's other uh grocery stores in the area, there's the thrifties over at Admiral's Walk.

There's certainly um Thrifties in in the Culwood area, there's Eagle Creek.

So I I couldn't say to how many vehicle trips that that that would generate on a regular basis.

And and again, I think it would be neighborhood generation, which in a lot of cases people would walk because it would be a good place to walk to because it is kind of central for that area.

And the minute you start getting um up towards the TCH, you're gonna head to Eagle Creek.

And the minute you start getting down by the four mile trestle, you're probably gonna go to Thrifties.

So um I don't think the the vehicles would be negligible from an impact point of view that if today you stood out there and counted vehicles or watch for them and then you know didn't know the development existed and then the vehicles were going, you wouldn't see uh something that you would notice.

Uh it it truly is and in the report it speaks to I think a a three percent impact with regards uh to the volumes that are currently there.

So it is quite small.

Okay my last parking related question is for the um the non-resident who wants to sort of drive to that place or pick up something on the way home, I I just have a hard time seeing them.

They're gonna drive on to to underground parking to pick up a you know a loaf of bread, quarter milk or and and a couple of other things.

So uh what what's what do you think the impact will be on the adjacent communities or adjacent roads in terms of people just parking to get to the current concept actually shows the the parking is above ground for the commercial access.

Um so you'd basically just be driving onto the lot.

And I I don't know if there's any actual parking spots out front.

It doesn't look like it.

They would be uh up a slight ramp, similar to um I guess Eagle Creek's kind of a uh uh flat area to go into, but the same kind of thing where you've got to actually drive into this site, find a parking spot, and then go into the commercial building.

I would see this site to be similar to that.

Um currently there is parking on Altham.

That is available, the shoulder's quite wide, so if somebody didn't want to actually go into there, they could park on Altham.

That would be a legal place to park.

Jedburgh has legal parking areas.

Uh where it's available.

Okay, thank you.

I had a couple of Jeff Chow questions too.

Okay.

Well we'll go to Councillor Rogers first and then come back to you.

We're standing on traffic are we?

Okay, uh yeah Mr.

Rosenberg I know it it's interesting it occurred to me that um uh individuals that want to go uh west from there to um I don't know to Damien's house, um, will um they'll just simply go down Jetberg.

They'll make a uh a left out and um down do the left on Jetberg.

And that way uh don't have to do the roundabout, and it's quick and easy and do the right out at the fire hall.

Except that is a no-left turn.

It is.

But you know, it's it's also been very tempting uh for traffic to uh go in and out of uh 15 Helmicken because of Eagle Creek, um uh either to get back to Eagle Creek or and and people will do that.

They'll uh probably want to turn around at Eltham if uh if you know, rather than going all the way down to a roundabout if they know a roundabout exists.

Um so I I do um you know, we've we're putting up the barriers, which I appreciate um uh to prevent the left at the the intersection, very important, but um there's gonna be an awful lot of temptation to make the left at Jedburgh any thoughts none yeah I I agree I think it's uh likely uh prospect myself um you know one of the the other you know I had a look at the Red Barn and and the six mile and uh both of those um uh commercial enterprises have hard corners and um uh they one the certainly the Red Barn Escoma has a bus stop but they don't have um uh all the challenges of uh the volume of traffic uh doing the the right turn and um as one of our uh letter writers explained uh you know expressing great concern of you know using the light already with uh this significant amount of traffic and um all those people that are uh doing that right turn um uh to go up uh helmikan uh then you got the bus stop and i i you know i really have a a concern that uh people in the condos uh going to be very challenged to to come out of that uh that building or even uh turn in because of those complexities and and um you know uh how can we make the access to be as safe as possible for pedestrians in traffic uh the pedestrian the the access there with regards to a right turn in i i wouldn't have any concerns coming off a humpkin making a right turn into the building.

Um, that grade is is certainly sufficient enough from a vertical point of view, and there's no horizontal alignment issues that that right turn in would be very easy to make.

The right turn out because it is protected by the barrier.

Again, you've just got to make that that look to the left to make sure somebody's not coming up from the intersection, which is a typical uh movement when you're making a right turn onto a street from an access, you'd always look left before making the right.

They don't have to worry about a right uh traffic coming at them because uh the barrier will prevent that uh movement from occurring.

So that's something that doesn't have to happen.

Um, and again, if the bus is there, then the the current plan or hope is to push that uh bus access now a little further towards Eltham.

So there'd be plenty of room to make that right hand turn, and there would be uh an opportunity for a conflict with regards to the bus pulling out and the right turn at the access.

That exists in in several locations throughout the town wherever there is a bus stop and professional bus drivers are trained to make sure that they check that left spot before they pull out into that traffic as well.

They all also signal to indicate to the person leaving that right turn and making that movement to uh and at that time those speeds would be uh significantly slow, they'd be in the you know, I would guess less than the 10 kilometer range.

They're making a right up into a hill, so there'd be no opportunity to uh I mean, obviously you could if you chose to be reckless um speed through that right turn onto Helmcken, but with the the grade change there it does start to increase.

Um so the speeds would generally be pretty slow that even if a conflict did occur, both vehicles would be able to stop to prevent it.

Mm-hmm.

Do there um uh Council Matson raised the the question about parking and um do we have any sense of um of the I know that they've met their their the criteria of the number of parking stalls.

Do we have any sense of how much uh guest parking there is for the condos out of the uh the 54?

Uh for the 54 units?

I couldn't answer that, perhaps uh Mr.

Chow could.

Oh or the applicant.

Yeah.

Thank you, Director Rosenberg.

Uh the proposal for 103 parking spaces on the site meets the zoning bylaw requirements.

Uh the expectation here is so the town doesn't regulate, uh, doesn't have a requirement for visitor parking spaces, but uh one of the things that we would expect to see is that uh during off hours or non business hours when the business is not open that uh the residential parking visitors will be able to use the uh commercial spaces.

So if I'm sorry, let me see if I understand that.

What's a great I think I got your idea.

So if if um you have the people that are living there, if there's no commercial use at nighttime, then the guest parking could be at uh in the commercial parking store stalls.

Um that's correct.

We will look at that further at the development permit stage.

Okay, all right, that's good idea.

Um, yeah, it's certainly hopefully we'll get the applicant agreeing to that.

The um commercial parking, how much um uh of the commercial parking is available for staff?

You know, the people that are gonna be in the restaurant uh the grocery store.

I I would remind us that a public hearing is land use.

Yeah.

You know, and you're asking very detailed questions that staff probably don't even have the answers to at this point.

And we really should be focusing on land use issues at a public hearing.

Uh yes, I agree.

And I think one of the you know the issues um uh for the neighborhood is um uh the impact of of um and certainly the letters when they were talking about uh um View Royal Square um and uh the amount of parking that goes on in in the neighborhood to the in the harbor area.

And um so I I I I think the the concern, of course, is with staff parking, is they have to park off site.

Well, so you could ask the applicant that during their presentation.

You know, where do they do that in our community?

I think it is important to know that it has met our parking requirements and our parking lot.

Yep.

So that's the best point I can ask the other applicant.

Can I one more question to Mr.

So in um in the uh OCP land designations, is so the area that we're talking about is neighborhood mixed use.

Is and so the zoning for neighborhood mixed use.

Um, but it looks like we want to put the neighborhood center designation in this mixed use area.

Is that how I'm understanding um that's all?

Uh Jeff here, through you, your worship, that that is correct.

This is the a land new land use designation that would allow this uh development which has a higher density than is permitted in the neighborhood mixed use uh designation both have the same type support the same type of land uses but this would allow a larger building on the property okay thank you so following along on that question Mr Chow would it would would it be fair to say that under the current zoning a retail store or restaurant could actually open that would potentially generate far more fab traffic and be a bigger operation than this one uh through you, your worship, uh the existing zone does permit a variety of commercial uses and and certainly restaurants and et cetera are are permitted currently, and and some businesses that are more successful than others, even if through the same land use, will just simply generate more traffic.

Right.

So that's possible.

Counselor Matson, thank you.

Uh Mr.

Chow, two I guess two questions.

The big I mean one of the major sort of features of this project is the boulevard pedestrian uh place.

So I'm wondering who's responsible for the care and maintenance of that.

Uh through your worship, uh typically, this is more of an engineering question, actually, but typically uh a boulevard maintenance agreement would be uh would be struck between the uh the business and the town, and they are using for their business.

So it's similar to um uh uh I think Eagle Creek village.

Uh they actually have landscaping, a higher level of landscaping and some sort of stormwater management facilities that are in within the town boulevard, and they have an agreement with the town that they look after it and uh you know carry insurance that uh for the town to be uh additional insured.

Okay, thank you.

Uh I guess my last question is I I think it's on the applicant's presentation, but it showed that uh a McDonald's would be allowed on the current site.

That's not accurate, is it?

Uh through your worship's uh a fast food restaurant is not permitted um in the zone, but a restaurant type use certainly uh certainly is permitted.

Okay, thank you.

That's all the questions I have.

Okay, thank you.

So I'd like to get to the applicant so we can get to the public.

Yeah, so maybe I can ask the applicant staff.

They don't know I didn't ask staff.

Sure.

Yeah.

Although remembering that we do want to get to the public, which is the whole focus of the public hearing.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay, so the applicant, we're gonna pass it over to you now.

I believe you have a presentation.

And the presentation is in our agendas.

Thank you, worship counsel and uh and uh URL community.

Um Tim Ankenman.

Um I cannot see me tapping um from your end, but I'm hoping that Mr.

Child has our uh five these can Tim.

You're not you're not very clear.

You you might want to.

I don't know if you can mute the live broadcast.

Um sorry.

Is that better, sir?

That is better, yeah.

Okay, my apologies, I was on speaker.

Um, so is my first slide available?

I think it's on the screen.

Lovely.

Thank you.

So, your worship council will thank you very much um for allowing me to present tonight.

This project's been uh you know a fairly long time in coming.

Um, as you can see from that initial slide, that is my office.

I actually am sitting there right now, and our our mission statement that you'll see on the slide is continuing to create architecture that enhances life in the environment, and we take that very seriously.

And every one of our clients walks in our doors understands that.

Next slide, please, Mr.

Chow.

So we wish to humbly thank um the council and community for considering this proposal.

Um, you know, it's a very, very high, um uh highly visible corner, and it creates a tremendous opportunity to create a landmark building, a gateway building that we think will set an outstanding uh precedent for future development along this corridor.

Um as you may know, the Sangera family, my clients have already made a significant investment in the town of View Royal, which is the Glentana, which is now under construction.

Um they're proud to be part of this community and would very much like to invest in it, continue to invest in it to assist the town in realizing their visions and aspirations for the site and other future opportunities.

Um while V Row is an outstanding place to live, we're gonna play.

It does not really yet however have an established village, which has sort of been identified in the OCP that would offer shops and services and mixed use buildings.

That precludes the use of vehicles for current and future residents to enjoy and use safely.

So this village becomes extremely important now that we're in the worldwide pandemic.

And there seems to be this massive research for the desire and need, you know, for the historic walk to the talk walk walk to shop um and to the mom and pop neighborhood stores.

And that's really what this project is all about.

And so, next slide, please, Mr.

Chow.

Um, you know, this has already been identified in Bureau of OCP.

Um, I don't need to uh um you know, council passed it, the community was engaged with it.

Um, but you know, it's just some highlights.

Um, you know, it this all means reducing greenhouse gas emissions, uh promoting compact development, um, providing jobs and amenities locally, supporting affordable housing, creating healthy and vibrant um social and cultural spaces, actively promoting energy efficient, sustainable development, well-designed compact housing, ensures choice, affordability, and a better use of land.

Um and then, you know, infill and redevelopment near neighborhood centers and transit borders, which is what the site is, provides jobs and services closer to where people live, minimizing the need for commuting and creating pedestrian-friendly streets and destinations.

So, you know, this is kind of the first flagship project that we sort of hope to get off the ground to achieve all these OCP objectives.

You know, getting around safely by by by foot and bike and bus and fast insurance is a is convenient, it's enjoyable, and it's a viable alternative to car travel.

So, you know, I heard a lot of discussion earlier and through a little bit more through our community correspondence about traffic.

And you know, honest, honestly, I I hear about traffic with every single project we do.

But I will say that it's important as we go through this presentation that we sort of all understand what you know the the the you know what might happen to the site um if this project isn't approved and under the current zoning.

And you know um i i it's important for us to understand that the the components the individual ingredients that have gone into this project specifically and have been well thought out are all intended to reduce um the necessity for um vehicle traffic and and be uh in and off the site next slide please mr child um you know more excerpts you know the the OCP talks about island highway harp har um harbor helm corridor mixed use area town center um and and it really talks about you know a paradigm shift for a community characterized by detached by by existing detached ground origin housing and commuting workforce um so in in terms of you know the summary um in terms of what we're trying to do to to achieve the OCP objectives I believe that my firm and and the Sangero family have really created an opportunity here that if entertained and then eventually approved by both um the community and council you know will become a landmark eight we've building as exemplary of of all these OCP objectives.

Next slide please Mr.

Chow.

There's bus stops in virtually every corner, um taking one to um almost every direction um uh to the uh to the um uh sorry east of the site is an existing building.

Though it's only a four story building, one has to recognize that it's you know high up um uh on grade relative to our site.

And even though it's four stories, it actually has a massive pitch roof, so it's it's actually more like a five story um massing.

There's existing commercial across the street, there's uh and the other two intersection or um uh the other two sides corners intersection are very likely to be redeveloped at some point in time in the future.

So this is really an opportunity to sort of build up the gateway, I guess is what I'm saying, um, to View Royal.

Uh it's a 20,000 square foot site, um, and you know, the existing single family.

We've done every effort we can to because it was a former gas station, we've made every effort that we can to remediate the site winning uh Ministry of Environment approval.

Um, but we're really trying our best to turn the site into something that is um uh quite interesting and and quite significant.

Next slide, please, Mr.

Cho.

So we're on a slide six, I hope.

Um you can see on that little diagram up above that that you know, even though it's a six-story building, we've actually designed it to read um from the streetscape or from the the ground level as a four-story building.

In fact, it's sort of a three-story building that floats uh with these three-story cubes that kind of float again um above the ground level commercial.

Um and and more importantly, we've really made an effort to terrace the building back quite significantly from the lion's code development uh to the east, you know, allowing sunlight penetration and and minimizing shadow effects on the development.

There's also quite a very, very large um you know, existing uh tree buffer that exists between the the two sites that will remain.

In fact, I was in discussions today with one of the um uh property um strata owners in the development.

Um I didn't realize that some of that or the majority of that tree buffer is deciduous or sorry, coniferous.

So um I'm we're going to approach that strata council to maybe mix in some coniferous um uh uh plantings that will you know allow complete privacy um all year long.

Um the the residential entrance to the project again to sort of pull it away from the lion's code development as well as to animate the streetscape along Old Island Highway has been placed um uh on the other side of the building, well away from that, um sort of the more benign street, which is Tomkin.

Um and these three story queues um are really uh uh um an effort to break down the overall mass you know this project this is not uh this is any anything but a big five five or six story um facade next slide please as was previously pointed out um um you know we are not relying on commercial customers to park underground um you know th those things are awful when a commercial customer has to park underneath um and and you know you end up using those escalators with uh with the ramps and the carts and all that.

Um rather we we've designed the parking behind the building, not in front, which is very contrary to the precedent that's sort of been set across the street, um, which is more of a suburban kind of um uh urban design gesture.

We've we've intentionally placed the parking behind the site, so it's hidden from the street, but still very, very uh conveniently located for the commercial um customers.

And so we think this works really, really quite well.

Um, and that's evidenced by the fact that my client has um I think five or six now um offers or letters of intent from various um neighborhood commercial groceries uh that would like to be at this location.

Um there are 54 units.

Um we are hoping to reach out to every social economic demographic that we possibly can, including renters and first-time buyers, established families, empty nesters, seniors and disabled.

So so this is the this uh proposal is all enclosed of there's six thousand square feet of ground level commercial for a neighborhood grocery store.

Um as we all know um uh our our zoning um is is is is is zoned into that like uh there are no other uses available um uh under the current proposed zoning uh if it you know if if one wanted to do uh you know a liquor store or cannabis store or subway or something, we'd actually have to come back to council and go through the whole neighborhood public public consultation public consultation process um to do that.

And of course all along um um both Island Highway as as long as as well as the Hempkin Road frontage, um there is a uh a very significant public plaza um that has been designed, uh sensibly designed and becomes a public gathering space um with benches and trees and street lighting and all that kind of thing.

Um uh to um um to really, really bring this location as a neighborhood gathering spot.

Next uh slide, please.

Um I think there's a question about um whether or not there's enough enough parking.

So first of all, we have out of the s uh out of the 50 four units, there's actually 76 secure bike stalls so so this uh proposal really encourages alternate transportation use um there's a total of 100 uh and four stalls 19 of which are the commercial stalls that are previously um talked about behind the building um with regard to the um question from one of the council members about um uh employee commercial use those are actually located in the underground uh parquet right at P1 so there's nine additional stalls um for uh employees and then in addition there's seventy six residential stalls um that are active and egress off of Helmcken.

And um w we have been in discussions with the develop developer um for the the the corner site north of our site and um we believe it makes sense to to move that bus stop just a little bit further north so that the site lines are improved when people are accessing and egressing our underground parking.

It should be noted um because there's also a concern about carbon monoxide carbon monoxide that um we are going to be roughing in electric vehicles for every single underground parking stall and we'll actually be um supplying uh EV charging stations for um anybody that comes in and and and purchases a unit right away and and wants that um ability um and and and and you know the amenity package is is somewhat unprecedented unprecedented.

Though we've got a strata meeting room which only gets used once a month, where people argue about who's going to clean the gutters.

That's a big thing.

So so you know, to bring people to be able to provide garden plots or um uh people that are moving out of their single family homes is huge.

Outdoor seating areas so people can conjugate, um an outdoor fireplace, outdoor kitchen, again, all promoted, uh all all on trend to promote sustainability and community living.

And then of course a shared office space.

So the whole idea about the shared office space is that we now have um pre-COVID, fifty-two percent of our workforce um working out of our homes.

You know, and and since COVID has obviously gone much higher.

I mean the city of Vancouver's um uh vacancy rate in office buildings down downtown now has just absolutely skyrocketed since COVID.

So you know, who knows what's gonna happen once COVID is over.

But the bottom line is people are getting used to uh you know, working out of their homes.

People are getting used to the technologies that that are available to us right now.

You know, we we don't have an in a in-person public hearing.

We're all discussing this over electronics.

And and the whole idea about about you know people getting out of the cars not having to drive to work every day is something that we as a firm promote in all of our condominium units.

And you know it's a very simple thing.

And it it you know it it it's about just providing a little conference area, some workstations, and all the building residents instead of getting into the cars and driving to work, they can all conjugate you know in this one area and um and and and have a reason to sort of go to work.

Have a reason to to share our ideas, have a reason to sort of get changed in the morning and get out of the pajamas.

Um and we're finding th this whole you know, we work concept, stolen from we work, quite frankly, but this whole we work concept that's specific to buildings um is something that that we highly encourage and we're doing in in most of our our projects wherever clients can um we wherever we can talk clients into it.

Okay, so I think I've said enough about that.

So I mean these things really are all about just a little conference room, a washroom, uh Kitchenette, individual work for cubicles, which we are pro proposing in this development.

Um I think that everyone understands that um um that that we're proposing a commercial boutique grocery store.

I think that it's something that um i is one of the reasons that that we have so much uh positive support for this project.

Um not only uh for a surrounding residents to be able to walk um to to to this project um and and that offering but but also just for the residents um that are gonna be residing in public.

Um again it it becomes sort of a one stop shop is it it's it it's it it you know it sort of follows general good planning principles um in terms of what we call a complete um community.

So you know the other thing it does it it it creates a you know a really interesting vibrant um streetscape with outdoor seating, you know, delis, fresh sandwiches, salads, um, you know um um uh colorful fruits and vegetables that kinda still out in the street.

Um and um again we have um at least five um uh local establishments that want to be here.

Um we can't really sign them up until we learn whether or not we're we we get this project approved.

Um but um um this all makes a lot of sense.

Um and you know we have to think about what other commercial uses um that could end up being here um under the current zoning and and I'm surprised that I heard that fast food restaurant isn't allowed here um like uh my my general understanding was this is sort of um general commercial and whether fast food or or or just a restaurant um I'm not sure what defines that so I'm I'm um I'm confused by that earlier comment um but you know again I think I you know I I I'm I'm convinced that that um um that um this mixed use proposal makes a lot more sense than what would be inevitable if this project fails um and I'm sorry I did show McDonald's under the next slide and I'm again confused.

Um so if we can move on to slide twelve please um Mr.

Chow.

So you know this is the kind of streetscape this is the kind of color color color and and and vibrancy that we're um trying to encourage for streetscape.

And um these are just stock images, but if you go on to the next slide, please, Mr.

Chowdh.

This is actually a specific design um what our plasma will look like with with overhead doors.

We're trying to break up the the storefronts, you know, with some um sandwich signs and overhead doors that open and a little um uh coffee shop that's part of the um um grocery store that kind of spills out in the street.

Um this is all what what promotes our walkable community.

Next slide, please.

So um we're on to slide 14, um public consultation.

Um you know we we were um set to host a public open house up at the Review Rural Elementary School and in fact booked the venue.

COVID came around, we had to wait for some months till we kind of figured everything out.

We're invited into the Lions Cove community to present our concepts.

But in that meeting, there's not one concern concern raised in the me since then.

There's over 20 people that attended.

So, you know, this response I think was mainly due to the commercial offering.

Um as well as um you know, beyond that, we actually took our package door to door through through the surrounding neighborhood.

Um and similar to Lions Code meeting, you know, all feedback and 20 letters of support were paused with one exception.

And and you know, we'll always get concerns from people.

Um what came up yesterday um through this public consultation process and and the public hearing notification um we're taking quite seriously and this was from one um person who had suggested that you know when she is taking her kids to school um I assumingly heading south going north across the highway up to um View Royal Elementary um that that that that she doesn't feel safe taking her her children across the intersection and we've looked at this carefully and and and we hope to work with um Director Rosenberg on this but um we would like to actually re-engage our track consultant um as part of the development permit process should we prove successful um to really dissect this issue and and the next slide please mr chow um is that you know there there is a pedestrian activated cross um button both on the south side of the royal as well as on the island um but not one on the corner of our uh of the subject site um and so uh uh y you can see um it's probably the same um person actually that's you know crossing there with with their children and there's no um uh there's no signal for people that are um heading down island highway and turning right into help and um to to to slow down there's no pedestrian signal there and and we think maybe that um is really worthy of some further study okay uh slide seventeen you know again um traffic i i've mentioned before you know all we can do as architects as designers and urban planners is really to to to to think about how get people out of their cars um with future development and that's kind of what we have tried to do here we've really tried to create this complete community where people that are living in the proposed development um have very few reasons to to get in their car and either go to work or go and buy their groceries or go and get a coffee or whatever it may be.

Um and I'm not a traffic uh engineer but I can assure you um that that um next slide uh okay I can assure you that that this proposed development you know if there was a restaurant that would go into this um uh you know if this was redeveloped as as a r you know is a is a high functioning restaurant I don't know if you call it fast food or if that's actually how it's defined the bylaw um that the this actually results in about you know eighty one to eighty percent less traffic um than my old days when I used to design um fast food restaurants.

Um you know there was also concern about about um traffic uh and and how it might circulate through a single family neighborhood.

What this slide very clearly um shows if we studied two options um is that going up um helpin north going around the roundabout and and then heading back and turning right um on island highway uh is is um a a much faster and a much more direct route um than than and and I think Mr.

Rosenberg touched on this earlier so I'm not gonna waste too much time.

Um again um th this has to do with um you know what the existing zoning I believe um allows which is um um you know uh a fast food restaurant or otherwise and uh you know just a a higher volume restaurant, and um um you know it it it it really talks about just being very clear uh that we're 80 to 81 percent l 87% lower than than a fast food restaurant generation.

Um the next slide, please, Mr.

Chow, just kind of shows a typical floor plan.

And what's important to note here is that you know, as you can see, all the major living spaces um have been oriented north so um not west um onto the um the neighboring lines code development.

We're very sensitive about that.

And of course the next slides, A twenty one and a twenty two are just more um um uh renderings uh that were previously shown.

I believe I wasn't able to see your screen.

My apologies.

Anyway, so summary and conclusions.

My firm with Sangarra family, we believe we've done everything with our within our combined talents and our abilities to do the best to ensure that you know no little stone has been left unturned and to further ensure we provide the best pro um possible project for this really, really interesting and prominent site.

As you can see, you know, we we we continue to listen, we continue to um um gather concerns and thoughts, we continue to want to implement those.

Um through uh our development process, um, be it now or through the development permit, there's still lots of room for us to listen and address, um, either from concerns for the council or for the surrounding community.

And um, you know, the uh the the the one concern that we heard yesterday about about the uh the the um the person that is taking their their children to um uh view royal elementary was news to us.

And you know, I had actually had to go on to Google Earth to to actually find that there isn't uh you know a button um to to to to to cross safely around that right turn.

So we are here to listen, we're here to make this project better, and um uh but but we we very very much um um enjoy the process and we very much um want to listen and engage and uh work with both council and the community to make this uh project a a success for everybody thank you your worship thank you very much for the the thorough presentation um for the for the public on the line we are going to get to you i'm i'm sure council is going to have a few questions here of the applicant but then immediately after that you will be up so you you might want to think now about calling in if you're watching and and thinking you're going to call in so questions for the applicant.

Councillor Matson.

Yes, thank you.

Uh thank you for your presentation.

Uh very thorough.

A quick question on page seven.

You outlined of the number of potential users of the site or or or purchasers, and you've got renters.

How are how are you going to guarantee that there will be sort of ongoing renters in this project?

So there are no guarantees.

There are no guarantees.

Okay.

Are you talking the commercial space or the residential space?

Oh, just the residential.

The issue of whether renters will be allowed because some strata's just won't allow renters.

Right.

Right.

And so will there be anything to preclude the strata from disallowing renters or renting of the units?

Yes, um, my client has no insurance of precluding renters.

Okay, thanks.

Good.

So that'll be part of the disclosure statement.

Okay, thank you.

Counselor Rogers.

Yes, hi.

Again, thank you for the presentation.

I'm glad we cleared up the fact that uh no McDonald's is uh permitted on the site.

Uh so um one of the questions um uh for clarification, uh I think you said in your your information here that yes, it was a contaminated site uh but uh upon purchase, but since then it's been cleaned up.

So uh upon purchase by who and when did it click get cleaned up?

So it's upon uh purchase from my client, the Sangera family, and uh they have since remediated me.

We do not have our so what we need now is what's called a um uh certificate of compliance of COC from the ministry, and that has been submitted, and we're awaiting that.

Okay, so that sorry, when was it purchased?

Um honestly I'm not I'm not the client, so I don't know.

May even be under still under contract.

I honestly don't know the details of that.

All I know is that um under you know the sale agreement um um it it was subject to um the site being cleared of contaminants and uh you know honestly I don't know the details whether or not my client costured with that or whether or not the the the the value of the remediation got taken off the land price I'm just not familiar.

Yeah thank you just just to sort of cut to the chase on that, no pun intended, but perhaps the director of development services could answer the question that a certain certificate of compliance, I believe, needs to be produced before any rezoning would be completed.

This is Lindsay Chase, Director of Development Services.

Thank you, your worship.

In this particular situation, the uh applicant has received a waiver from the ministry, uh, which means that a CFC is not required prior to the rezoning, but the remediation works, etc., would need to be addressed prior to development permit.

That process is established by the province in legislation, and we have uh also in the past in the benefit of uh the beneficiary of um the same kind of waiver with respect to the rezoning application at 280 Islands highway.

Right.

Thank you and come on if i may um yes hi it's it's um it certainly is encouraging that uh again if i'm reading your notes here uh your presentation you're saying that the twenty eight commercial um spaces would be available to uh for the for the condos for um visitor use uh after hours is that true well that's right counselor i mean you know the bot and we do this a lot like the bottom line is that um you know these grocery stores don't stay despite the hours that we're presenting that that's really just uh boards and flexibility.

But you know, if you look at red bar and I I just googled red bar now this you know this afternoon and and I think I think we're saying it's open from 8 a.m till seven p.m or eight a.m till 18.

So you know you have those 16 stalls that are available on uh for after hours as well as the the underground commercial spaces that are designated for employees so um you know I I yeah I think there's gonna be a lot of visitor parking because that's kind of when visitors come typically um but regardless of that you know we've got an uh an overall one or four spaces for people units so um you know not only do we meet the bylaws, but you know I can't see um too many owners wanting to one and a half or two spaces.

Yep, okay.

It's it certainly would be a great comfort and assurance today to the neighbors, knowing that uh you know we can get some covenant or agreement from uh from uh the commercial areas for for that uh benefit.

Um just m moving along, I just want to be sure um you had some comparisons and it showed that um your proposal is the same height as Lions Cove.

When when you take grade into consideration and the height of Lions Cove, it actually works out that both buildings are about the same height.

Is that is that my reading that correctly?

So if you go to slide six, um, counselor, um, you'll see that the fifth floor of our proposal, which is set well back from you know floors one through floor four, um is is slightly lower than the top of Lion's Cove, and it's not until you're I think it's like 77 feet away, um, where our sixth floor, which is even further set back, um uh jogs a little bit higher than Lions Cove.

What I'm trying to say is that our building from any streetscape pedestrian viewpoint is gonna read as subordinate to Lions Cove, it's gonna be even lower.

Okay, thank you.

And Doy, again, help me with this.

Then um the uh the existing trees, the fir trees and so forth, all the vegetation screening, is that on the Lions Cove property?

Um, so along the that properly uh property line, yes.

Um and and and you know, again I've been in this discussion today with with one lion for presidents who was a um uh a previous forester, and we have agreed that we're going to um come up you know, get an arbitration out there, we're gonna come up with a plan to um try and supplement some of those coniferous trees with uh deciduous so that there's a permanent screening.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, coniferous is much more uh permanent than uh than deciduous.

Deciduous falls leaves fall off.

But I'll I'll leave that you were for that.

But I appreciate you offering to work that.

One of the concerns that we'd received in in our letters was uh noise, and um, you know, noise coming from and and I appreciate that none of the uh your units are facing Lands Cove, but you do have that large uh seventeen hundred square foot deck, public deck patio, um facing Lands Cove.

And I know we have a fabulous deck on the Glentana building that faces Rexhall and Canadian Tire.

Um, you know, and and I appreciate and very happy to hear that you're sensitive to Lance Cove and I appreciate you you're uh willing to work with the next door neighbors if this application proceeds.

So that might be an issue of of uh how you can help uh address the noise aspect.

So what what I might suggest if you look at our landscape plan, a successful landscape plan, um basically we have um uh garden lots that are on the east side of that deck which is a very sort of you know it's not a party use is when you know people go out and they plant their tomatoes and harvest.

Um you know the the so that keeps I guess what I'm trying to say is that keeps people um well away from that edge it's a very benign use as you approach the edge um that overlooks landscape.

Yeah it it's pretty hard to imagine that anyone sitting on a patio talking to someone having a cup of coffee could be louder than the traffic um in my estimation.

Well, you know, is there any more questions on land use matters so that we can move on to the public portion of this public hearing after an hour and 20 minutes?

No, I don't think so.

They're good if they're on land use issues.

Counselor Kowalowicz.

Thank you.

Uh thank you for uh obviously a very comprehensive presentation.

Uh I'd like to acknowledge how much work went into it.

It looks like you've done a significant amount of uh public participation.

Um I'll take you back to a comment that you made earlier in your presentation, if you can recall it.

Uh you you gave a caution to council, and you said uh you you cautioned us uh and warned us about what might happen if we don't approve this application for this area.

As a matter of fact, I'm a little offended by it.

Um I'm a little perplexed by that comment.

And I'm just wondering what exactly you meant by it.

So um apologies that that that that was really not meant to um be a threat nor to offend.

Um you know uh so often I I've uh you know I've been in this business for years and I've seen um good projects like that not proceed.

And and and you know it it it's okay, so so what happens if it doesn't?

Um, you know, it it I'm I'm not interested in in designing a strip mall or a you know um subway station or or whatever we're we're we're doing in the current zoning.

Um but um you know, I I just um think it's important for not account and security but for the the community to to to understand that the existing Namaste restaurant is a is a very aged old building and something is gonna be redeveloped on the site in the future.

And all I'm trying to suggest is that I really have put um all my heart and soul and four years of experience um into designing the best possible project um for the site.

And and who knows what's gonna happen um if this doesn't go ahead.

I have absolutely no idea, but you know, I do sort of look back on on on on on what the current zoning is and the resulting um traffic bounce um on on a restaurant you know on redevelopers and and and um yeah because because I'm I'm not saying that's what's gonna happen I'm just saying that you know I I I I think that it's somewhat inevitable that if this project doesn't proceed that somebody not my client not me um is gonna um you know uh um um rebuild under the current zoning that's all I intended to that was the only message that I intend to um to convey thank you okay everybody's good so for the public I gather we do have some on the line but for anyone now who would like to call in you dial 778 402 9227 and when prompted enter conference ID 256082986 pound excuse me as we move through this I will then announce the last four digits of your phone number I will ask you to mute the live cast to avoid feedback and ask that you unmute yourself by pressing star six.

And then if you could begin by giving us your name and address for the record, and you may then give us the benefit of your views.

The you know, we generally encourage people in public hearing that a maximum of four or five minutes is is what we what we would appreciate.

So with that, I'm going to turn to staff and ask if we have any callers.

Your worship, yes.

This evening we do have several callers, and I understand that the chat feature has been busy this evening as well.

The first caller, the last four digits are five five zero eight.

Okay, thank you very much.

So caller with the last four digits of five five zero eight.

This is your opportunity to speak to us.

Yeah.

When they start.

Caller.

Hello.

Caller with the last four digits 5508.

Hello?

Yes, that's me.

Okay.

Go ahead.

If we could just give you name and address, please.

Yes.

Well good evening, Mayor and Council.

It's Gillian Mead Robbins on Suzanne Place.

And I certainly like the presentation that has just been given.

I just wanted to make a couple very slow uh small comment.

I really like the presentation and I love the idea.

My concern was the height.

And I don't wish to see anything higher than four stories.

Please keep the royal low height so we can all see the sunshine and views rather than shadows.

And I certainly don't like the vertical nightmares that we see in the surrounding areas, Langford ex especially.

But after hearing the presentation, I didn't realize the setback would be so wonderful because then everybody can have a good view and we don't see the vertical nightmare.

I realize buildings are necessary, but congestion isn't.

And for quick shopping, um I find Helm can market is quite handy.

They don't have a parking or transportation access problem.

But other than that, um we live in a beautiful area so I'm glad you're respecting it.

I like your input and not taking down the trees beside you unlike Landscove.

So good luck.

And I might even stand up in that standing ovation.

So thank you very much.

Thanks for calling in and thank thank you for hanging in there because I know you were on the line before our meeting started.

So thank you.

I'm an author.

I'm an autograph hum so I'm quite used to waiting.

Okay.

Thank you very much.

Yeah.

Bye now.

Bye bye.

The next caller, Steph?

Yes, your worship.

The next caller has the last four digits 5065.

Well, that's a very familiar sounding number.

The caller of the last four digits, 5065.

It's now your opportunity, Mr.

Hill.

Good evening, members of council.

Your worship.

Good evening.

This is um uh 296 Eltham Road calling.

Can you hear me all?

Yeah, we can.

You're coming through loud and clear.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um a number of observations and points.

Like there are there are several things here that that need to be thought through, as I see it.

One of them, of course, is that we this is a an uh an approach for changing land use.

And there was a great deal today on what land use might mean.

I'm I'm intrigued as to how um this developer who uh walked the area did not knock on our door.

We happen to live at two nine six Elfham.

We have had no representation of him at our doorstop.

I'm wondering why.

That leads me to the next question, observation, I guess.

I was hoping to have seen a uh uh a reflection of the official community plan in a way that reflected uh um benefits to the community.

Um it's it's a challenge, isn't it, in today's uh difficult world.

And I'm uncomfortable with much of what I've heard.

For example, th the the issue of what might happen in the event of a McDonald's.

I found that very offensive actually, and I don't want to go on, I don't want to dwell on that, but certainly as a person who lives on Eltham Road, I didn't like the implications of that.

Also, I was confused by an apparent view by staff that parking on Eltham was possible.

Anybody who has been down this road on a number of occasions in recent years will notice that the street is packed curb to curb with traffic, with cars, with delivery vehicles, and that that is not a feasible option for managing traffic in this area traffic in sense of the overall volume isn't so much our concern that's that's a matter that guys like like John will will uh will handle but certainly traffic in the sense of being able to avoid the U turns coming in and out of our driveway is a matter of concern I don't know how that's not going to happen do I have to get out with my own um local local beacons I don't know but the alternatives and I'll hold each one of you guys accountable, the alternatives to uh to having a policeman at our doorstep is going to be huge.

I I struggle with that.

Folks, this is a small community right on the edge of that property.

And it needs to be thought through carefully.

The the matter of um of sunlight.

We have neighbors here who are very concerned about six stories.

That's hardly fair to a community that's been here for some years, where their gardens and their properties will be shadowed by that by the height of that building.

That needs to be thought through.

Four perhaps, but not six.

The next thing.

Why are we thinking of I'm looking at my kind time here, but why are we thinking of uh transportation congestions when the challenge of access from that property during peak hours is going to be absolutely business restrictive?

It's going to be business restrictive.

You're going to have a have up to I don't know at between four and six, between three and seven, between seven and four in the morning.

I don't know.

But you're going to have one heck of a time trying to get traffic in and out when uh when uh peak hours are are happening.

And that's going to have an impact on the uh on the on the s on the businesses that you hope to put into that place.

It won't work, in my opinion.

Um disrespect, Mr.

Hill, you are at five minutes, so if you could wrap up, that would be appreciated.

Thank you, Your Worship.

I'm wrapped.

Okay.

Well, it's it's good to hear your voice and thank you for calling in.

Uh oh, I think I'm in trouble.

Um staff.

The next um number, please.

Yes, your worship.

The next call caller has the last four digits of 6012.

Okay, caller with the last four digits of six zero one two.

This is your opportunity to speak.

Six zero one two.

Don't forget to press star six to unmute yourself.

Hi.

Are you there?

Oh.

Can you hear you?

Yeah, go ahead?

We can hear you.

Perfect.

I'm at 1517 Admiral Rose.

Okay, and what was your name, please?

Summer.

Okay.

Perfect.

So my husband and I are viewing.

We love the look of the royal.

If you'd like to add the your audio is is very garbled.

Are you are you on a speaker phone or yes?

I am.

Are you able to speak directly into the phone?

Can you hear me better now?

Yes.

Thank you.

Perfect.

So my husband and I are U Royal residents.

Sorry, we love the look of the royal.

I feel it like an add needed amenity.

Um, especially the possibility of having a red barn.

We love that.

As well as some walkability that the royal is in desperate need of.

Um, I also really love how let up everything sounds, making it very safe and walking the environment as of right now, it's not at all.

Um, and yeah, that's all I'd like to say.

Okay, thank you very much for calling in.

Steph?

Yes, uh the next caller, your worship, is the last four digits two two seven zero.

Thank you.

Caller with the last four digits two two seven zero.

This is your opportunity.

Call last four digits two two seven zero.

Your worship, I see that they just left.

I don't know if they got cut off.

If they uh would like to try calling in again if they did mean to uh to speak.

Okay, thank you.

Um otherwise we could go to the next caller, last four digits 9221.

Caller with the last four digits 9221.

9222.

Yeah, go ahead.

Okay.

Hello, your worship and counsel.

Thank you very much for taking my call.

My name is John O'Farrell, and I'm at uh 292 Bessborough.

Welcome.

Thank you for taking.

I wanted to make a couple of statements.

As you know, we have parking issues with regards to the building uh at the corner already, uh over on Bathboro.

And um this uh this building here uh that is proposal is also looking at uh providing additional parking concerns in my opinion to the uh to the area.

For um a couple of uh notes that I took today on in the presentation, there's no guest parking uh for the building.

They're we're they're expecting that uh they'll be able to use commercial parking, but during commercial time there is no guest parking for anybody in that building.

So when grandma wants to have her grandson appear or come there, there's no parking for him.

So he's gonna be parking on the uh parking somewhere else or in the it in the area and uh down other streets.

And that's a definite concern with uh inadequate parking.

In addition to my concerns is the uh lack of parking for the commercial.

Um, nine parking spaces for a business of that size.

I happen to know the owners of Red Barn Market, and I know that the Red Barn Market on Admirals has 27 employees.

If one if each of them drives their own vehicle, that's 27 vehicles.

There's inadequate parking for this a business of this size and for commercial use.

Um also the parking at uh the Red Barn Market uh at Admirals has 12 parking spots.

You try going there at noon on it on a on a on a general day and there is inadequate parking there.

So to look at the parking issues um and and this this bit this development was designed so that they want to encourage people to walk.

It wasn't designed to provide adequate parking for the business that they are trying to encourage to come there.

So I think it needs to be looked at in the way in which there has to be appropriate parking given the business scale uh scope and scale that they're wishing to have there.

If they are wanting to have that type of business there, they have to provide the appropriate amount of parking stalls.

So thank you very much.

Okay, thank you, Jess.

At the end of the public participation, I I am gonna give the proponent the opportunity to correct those statements because I I believe your numbers that you were quoting of parking spaces are incorrect, and I will give the proponent the opportunity to correct that when we're finished.

But thank you for raising your concerns.

Thank you.

Staff.

Your worship, the next caller has the last four digits four one seven one.

Thank you.

So caller with the last four digits four one seven one.

Four one seven one.

This is your opportunity to speak.

Are you there, caller?

Don't forget to press star hello.

Yeah, sorry, I had my phone on mute.

No problem.

Thank you, our worship, and town council.

Uh we appreciate the uh opportunity to be heard on the following matters.

I am a resident of two nine four Eltham Road.

My name is Aaron Hodgson.

I am sitting here also with Robin Rose, who is uh neighbor directly across the street.

Two nine three Elkham Road.

Um the biggest, one of the biggest issues that we have is definitely the parking that has been brought up.

Um Eltham Road is not a parking stall.

It's not a street that even legally allows parking, I believe, by the size of it, although people do regularly fill the streets with parking.

We do have young families that live in the neighborhood, children playing on the streets, delivery cars coming and going, senior citizens coming out of the residence above at Lions Cove that walk the street, and we've seen them nearly be hit already by a car parked on the road that they have to uh navigate, and uh it's not the safest situation as it is.

The second issue that I have is the egress that's going to happen from that building because there's no possible way for anyone to head eastbound other than coming right onto Helmcken.

And let's face it, we all take the shortest route traveled to our destination.

So anybody who's wanting to go eastbound back down Island Highway is going to take their first right, which is Eltham Road.

They're going to do either turnaround in our driveway or head up into Lions Cove and Ashley Gate area and increase the safety of the seniors there and our children playing on the street.

We already have at present on the average day five to fifteen cars turning around in our driveway.

With the egress the way that it's set up now, that number will easily double.

I have no doubt.

And uh to go against this precedent, I I think would be a mistake.

I think it would set up future developers to look at going seven stories, eight stories.

Um I think we have to look at that.

I'm gonna pass the phone on to Robin Rose now, if you're all right with that.

I just would echo what you said, Graham.

Thank you, Your Worship and Council.

Thank you very much for the call.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you.

Staff, do we have any more callers?

Your worship, at this time I have two more callers.

The next one, the last four digits are four nine three one.

Okay, thank you.

So caller with the last four digits of four nine three one.

This is your opportunity, four nine three one.

Thank you, your worship, and thank you, Council.

My name is Maddie McKewitt.

I am located at 17 Loves of the Place in View Royal.

I have just recently purchased A View Royal at the Glen on Glen Channel, which is due projected to be finished here coming up quickly.

I'm looking forward to actually having walkable amenities and creating a center and core for View Royal.

I think giving a communal feel and changing the dynamic of View Royal as a city itself will create vibrance and a community.

And I think having that is really important for us.

Um, with us just being, you know, sort of a passing through city.

I think it's important to bring more business and more locals to the area.

And that is all for now.

Thank you.

Thank you very much for the call.

Your worship, our last caller that I have at the moment is the last four digits two five eight nine.

Okay, caller with the last four digits two five eight nine.

This is your opportunity, two five, eight, nine.

Forget to press star six.

So I think we'll go to the chat feature and then we'll circle back and just see if there's any other callers and try again at that point before we close the public hearing.

So, Ms.

Cochrane, I understand we have some people on the chat feature.

We have 12 uh comments, questions.

Um, the first one being from Kathy Blanchard, and she's at number 101290 Island Highway.

She says, unless I am missing an amendment, the community plan says buildings over two stories should utilize setbacks and/or terracing above the second level to reduce massing impacts on the street and surrounding neighbors.

Preserve view corridors corridors and provide visual interest.

The Harbor Helmcken Community Corridor should be planned to complement and not compete with the future town center at Fort Victoria.

Support the revitalization of the Helmcken neighborhood through the creation of vibrant mixed-use areas and improved community connections and amenities while preserving the scale and character of existing residential areas.

How can we justify this new zoning criteria with a 20-meter height with very little insetbacks?

Okay, thank you.

Next.

The next um comment comes from Diana Hansen at 286 Helmcken Road, who says during construction, traffic at points in time, potentially days on end, will be impeded or delayed.

Are there plans to mitigate the delays and impedements to road traffic?

When traffic is backlogged at that intersection in the past, many cars turned down the 200 block of Helmcken, then left on Bureau Avenue, and proceed out by four mile and vice versa.

This leads to more noise for residents in this area and increased hazards as non-local vehicles take the narrow roads, twists, and speed bumps too quickly, increasing risk to many walkers, children, and pets.

Okay, thank you.

She her question is: with the town contributing, um contributing boulevard, if the traffic becomes a problem, is there any way that the that that boulevard would be cut back, putting the building back against the roadway with no setback at all?

No.

Okay.

That's the most direct answer.

Yeah.

Okay, she has a follow-up question again.

It is where would service providers and guests of the condos park if the outside parking is dedicated to commercial tenant?

I'm gonna ask the proponent at the end of the public participation to speak to the parking again.

So he can answer that one at that point.

Sure.

And she has another comment about parking.

Um she says if commercial parking is only available to visitors from 10 p.m.

to 6 a.m.

That is not very useful.

Okay.

The end of that.

Um then we have another comment, and this is from K Carrie Sanderson of 27 Jedburgh Road.

She says, We live on Jedburgh Road.

This is always you, this is already used as a shortcut by speeding traffic, particularly in the peak commuter times.

They turn right onto Jedburgh from Helmcken and come out by the fire hall, missing the lights at Old Island Highway.

We have repeatedly asked for speed humps, but have been told no.

As the road is now narrowed from the Jetstone development, we are very concerned about significant volume increases.

Is there any plan to ameliorate this?

Well, I mean, I think you know, if if a letter was to be received by counsel from the majority of the residents on Jebra that expressed an interest in speed humps on that road, we'd be prepared to consider that.

I mean, but that that's about as far as I would go for an answer to that at that point.

But I we certainly understand that concern, and Councillor Rogers raised it earlier.

Okay.

Okay.

We have another uh question from Kathy Blanchard of 101 290 Island Highway.

She asks Has a roundabout at Island Highway and Humpkin Road been considered, or is it not possible?

It was considered many years ago, and I think the general feeling is that there is not enough property there to put a big enough roundabout as would be necessary for an intersection that receives the volume that that does.

Next.

She says about the speed bumps, we've been told on at least three occasions that we needed to wait for other paving projects to get the necessary supplies rather than a standalone.

However, multiple paving has gone on around us and still no speed bumps.

Yeah, so I'm hesitant to get into a back and forth.

That's not the function of the chat feature.

But what I what I said to that resident was a genuine statement that I we do have a traffic calming policy, which I believe is probably available on the website.

And you know, we there's a lot of streets in town where the residents would like to see speed humps, and they can't all be accommodated.

But I think if you were to write a letter, we would certainly consider it.

And that's really the best I can tell you at this point.

We have another comment from Sam Barnes of number one 235 Island Highway.

He says, Thank you, Mayor and Council, for the opportunity to express my support for the OCP and zoning amendments proposed for 298 Island Highway.

This is a key intersection that is well suited to the increased density, height, and mixed use development being proposed.

I understand increased density and a grocery store will result in more traffic than the current restaurant.

However, I'm not concerned about the amount of traffic related to this development, but more so traffic flow.

I would like to see the traffic pattern managed to only allow right in, right out access as was presented.

Center curb on Helmcken and Rain Garden on Island Highway.

My question, potentially for Viewer staff, there is not currently a complete bike lane on Island Highway.

Will the rain garden and other road work connect the Highland Highway bike lane?

Thank you.

I'll let Director Rosenberg answer that, but my my presumption is that the detailed design of that stretch, which we've only just completed, does include bike lanes on both sides.

You're correct, your worship.

Thank you.

Is there anyone else on the chat?

There is.

We have uh Mark Unwin of 45 Stone Ridge.

He says, see this, he sees this as a positive change, and hopefully the rest of the intersection improves next.

A restaurant to walk to would be great.

Okay, thank you.

And then we have Chris Cavaghan of 45 Stone Ridge Drive, who says, view rural needs this.

It is time that intersection improved.

All I hear are positive comments from my neighbors.

Now there is a grocery store within walking distance.

Wouldn't this potentially decrease some of the additional traffic through the intersection since they won't have to travel to Collwood or Admiral's Walk?

Okay, thank you.

And then we have a final comment from S.

Francis of 293 Viewora Avenue, who says anything that can be done to create a village that people can walk to that creates community gathering spaces that shifts us away from simply being a traffic corridor is in theory very positive.

But the type of business that is in the commercial space matters.

It needs to fit the neighborhood.

As has been stated there are, as has been stated, there are a number of large grocery stores already in the vicinity.

So duplicating duplicating that with a red barn or other chain, even if it is local a locally owned one, is a missed opportunity to encourage local independent business that offer something unique.

Okay, thank you.

And that's the end, Mayor Screach.

Thank you, Ms.

Cochran.

That certainly shows I think the the value of the chat feature at a public hearing, because that's the first time it's been been that well used.

Thank you.

Will we get a printout of the chat?

Yeah, it'll be summarized in the minutes as as part of the input.

So we'll go back to the telephone now.

And are there any more callers, Steph?

There are no new callers, but if uh you would like to give the opportunity to the last four digits two five eight nine, perhaps they would unmute and uh speak.

Thank you.

So caller with the last four digits two five eight nine.

If you would like the opportunity to speak, this is your opportunity.

Just please remember to press star six.

Two five eight nine.

Hi there.

Yes.

Uh hello.

Hi there, thank you.

Welcome.

Yeah, we can hear you.

I actually just had uh some positive comments about the building.

I think it's a great great idea.

And you know that little intersection.

Can we just get your name and address, please, for the record?

Oh, sure.

Yeah, I was able to make a chat comment.

It's Chris at 45 Stone Ridge Drive.

Oh, okay.

Yes, I uh I couldn't figure out how to make everything work, so I just left it shot.

But I think it's I think the building is uh fantastic idea, especially you know, six floors might seem like a lot, but it seems to blend right in with uh the rest of the road.

So um I think it's a it's a good idea.

Okay.

Well, thank you very much for calling in.

Thank you.

So I'm gonna circle back to the proponent, but I'm I'm looking for just a quick summary of the the parking because I do believe there were some incorrect numbers that were stated, and and possibly you can just clarify about visitor parking and and commercial parking.

So back to your worship, is that a question for me, the architect?

I well, I thought earlier we have Mr.

Ankinman on the line, did we not?

That that's me now.

Okay.

Yes.

Yeah, that's just the opportunity if if you were if you were listening, there were a resident had quoted numbers of parking spaces available, and my my feeling is that they were incorrect.

And so I just wanted to give you the opportunity to correct that.

Thank you, worship.

Um, Ms.

Chao, if you can go back to my slide eight if that's um available.

So there's 19 service calls um uh for the commercial.

You know, I I think really what what the comment revolved around the number of employees and and the gentleman had contacts um somebody he knows a uh um somebody at Red Barn that that that that that kind of runs the show and they had I can't remember what he said 16 or 18 employees.

But you know, one's gotta remember two things um one is that you know sure you know a Red Barn really small um bourmy commercial grocery stores can have sixteen or eighteen employees but they're not all going to be on one shift at one time so that's the first thing to remember the second thing to remember is that very few of them other than sort of management are really going to be arriving by car like there's a lot of uh kids that that walk to work that bike to work that you know it it you know it it's a a lot of people that the a lot of kids that I know, this is their first job ever.

Um you know, they can't afford a bus test or barely afford bus pass, let alone a car.

So you know, nine additional stalls in the underground can archate for commercial use for employees.

I actually don't think I I think three of those will get used and the rest will be used for, you know, overflow for commercial purposes.

Um so yeah, I just you know, as the notice uh body law.

Um I think I I honestly believe that our seventy-six residential underground parking stalls relative to the the uh you know, the fifty-two units, they're not even all gonna going to get sold because of of us being on the bus line and you know, you know, affordable one bedrooms and stilling, um or renters, they're just not gonna use them.

So if anything, there's gonna be a surplus of parking and and you know w when we designate these these numbers as architects and assign them to commercial and you know and and and employee and residential, um, you know, that's just to meet the bylaw.

The reality is that as this project unfolds and as you know things start getting sold, um you know, it could well be that the the the commercial component wants more stalls and and we can only sell one stall per residential unit.

I mean that's sort of how things go.

Um so anyway, the bottom line is that I believe that a total of a hundred and four parking stalls for 54 units of us, you know would be really a very small um commercial component, not even six thousand square feet, is more than ample.

And I envision absolutely no um overflow parking on neighboring residential streets whatsoever.

It's just it's not gonna happen.

It's too far away.

And um, you know, if we didn't provide ample parking on the site, I could see it, but but um uh you know uh any of these um grocery stores thank you, Mr.

Angus.

I'm gonna I'm gonna cut you off, but thank you very much.

You did answer the question that we were wondering.

So we apparently have uh somebody else on the on the chat function.

Okay, so we'll we'll take those and then I think after those, I will close off the public participation part.

But staff, and we have more comments on the chat.

We do.

Um we have a comment and question from Doug Wilson of 291 View Royal Avenue, who says, It appears that all of the parking is undercover.

That is, there will be a height restriction over top of every parking spot.

How will grocery deliveries and other service vehicles be accommodated in the development?

Does the current plan require delivery and service vehicles to park in the traveled lanes of Helmcken?

No, there is there is a dedicated loading bay for the site, and so deliveries would come to that site to the to the loading bay.

Okay.

The next comment is from Claire McDougall at 291 View Royal Avenue, who says, I think it would be better if a building on this site is kept to four stories.

Parking sounds inadequate, especially visitors' parking.

Commercial parking doesn't become available to visitors until well into the evening.

Traffic, especially during construction.

I'm concerned about vehicles cutting down Helmcken and then taking View Royal Avenue.

It is not designed for increased volume of traffic.

Okay, thank you.

And the last comment is from Barbara Deluska at 278 Ion Highway, who says, Having lived in View Royal within a block of the proposed new development for just over a year, I'm excited about the possibility for creating a sense of community through the commercial tenants.

View Royal is lovely, but so badly needs coffee shops and outdoor seating areas, especially at a walkable distance for a significant number of residents.

The location of this development is really ideal for walkability.

My question is whether the municipality can require that the commercial tenant provide not just groceries but also a coffee bar, sandwich shop with for in both indoor and outdoor seating.

Um in a zoning or you know, require a business to be a but but it is certainly on the table that that is what they were wishing to do.

And and I think with a grocery store like Red Barn, if that's what should be there, it's very likely that that sort of service would exist.

So I think if that's it on the chat feature and there's no one else on the telephone, I'm going to close off the public participation portion of this.

Your worship, I have no new callers.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you, Steph, for the the chat and and for the callers, and we will close off.

And then thank you to all who did call in and and who did take part on the chat as well.

So we have a whole load of correspondence, A through S.

S to receive.

Yes.

Okay.

Moved and seconded.

All in favor, opposed.

That's carried.

And then we need a motion.

And I'll just remind the public that we council can now not take any new information about this application.

So none of us should be discussing this with members of the public um or the applicant or anyone for that matter until third reading comes before us, which I presume will likely be at the next council meeting.

So and with that I need a motion to terminate.