Council Meeting

Thanks, Sarah.

Uh call the uh special council meeting for February uh 20th to order.

And that uh we recognize the conguin speaking people known today as the Esquamalt Nation and the Songhees Nation, and that their historic connections to these lands continue to this day.

This evening we'll hear from the public who telephone in during the public participation uh and question period portions of the agenda.

If you wish to provide comments by telephone, call 778-402-9227 and when prompted, enter conference ID 881-639-891 pound.

You will be immediately muted uh once admitted to the meeting.

Please do not mute unmute yourself until asked.

At the appropriate time in the agenda, we'll then announce the four last four digits of your phone number.

Ask you to mute the live webcast, ask you not to use your speaker phone, and then ask you to unmute yourself by pressing star six when it's your time to speak.

Uh to begin, please indicate your name and street name for the record.

Speakers will have five minutes uh during uh public participation each and two minutes uh during question period to ask a question.

You will be timed.

This meeting will be recorded by participating in the webcast.

You are consenting to being recorded, and the recording will be available on the town's website.

Uh may I have an approval of the agenda?

And I don't think we have any late items for the normal agenda tonight.

Making a motion to approve the agenda, please.

So moved by councillor McKenzie, seconded by Councillor Lemon.

Seeing none opposed, motion carries.

All those in favor.

Any opposed?

Can I get a motion to adopt the minutes of the uh February 6th council meeting, please?

Moved by Councillor Rogers, seconded by Councillor Mattson.

All those in favor?

Any opposed?

Seeing none opposed, motion carries.

That brings us down to petitions and delegations.

And I think first up is the Greater Victoria Public Library.

Welcome.

Good evening, Mayor Tobias, Council members and staff.

Uh thank you for inviting us to make this presentation.

My name is Shahiera Kerr.

I'm a vice chair for the board and a citizen representative for the City of Victoria.

With me to present this evening is our CEO, Maureen Sawa.

I would like to recognize Councillor Jerry Lemon, who is your council representative on the library board.

The commitment of our councillor trustee members to represent their constituents across GDPL's 10 member municipalities is greatly appreciated.

Public libraries provide a place where every citizen belongs.

The Greater Victoria Public Library Board is committed to working with our municipal partners so that together we can build communities by providing citizens with equitable access to information, services, and resources to learn and grow.

On behalf of the library board, staff, and the community we serve, I would like to express my thanks to the Town of View Royal Council for your continued support.

We are proud of the work we do and appreciate your recognition that libraries do indeed change lives.

And now I will turn things over to Maureen for the remainder of this presentation.

Maureen and I look forward to responding to any questions you may have.

Thank you.

Thank you, Shahira.

And it's uh really great to be here again.

It seems like just a minute ago we were here, but here we are again.

Um I know I paid attention to this.

Okay.

Okay, there we go.

Um, I'll hold it that way and I'll okay.

Um, I always like to begin these presentations with just a reminder that the Greater Victoria Public Library is a shared service model.

Your library system serves 10 of the 13 municipalities of the Capital Region District as illustrated in this map.

As Shahiera said, we provide free and equitable access to a full range of services and resources.

And through the shared model service, this provides all member municipalities with ability to access resources that normally only a large urban library system can offer.

That means that we can provide a standard of service that would not be possible for any one municipality to offer individually.

Your place to connect, discover, and imagine.

GVPL is truly the definition of the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

All right.

So I, all right, this is not, I'm not going to worry about it too much.

Okay.

We have accomplished quite a bit in the past year.

Some of the numbers on your presentation just illustrate that, particularly the branch that you are contributing to, the central branch, you know, numerous new memberships.

Some of the other figures, we're still kind of working through the data from 2023.

So I won't kind of unpack all of these numbers, but I will tell you that our circulation is certainly back to pre-COVID times and the usage of our digital materials.

We actually hit the 1 million mark when it came to our overdrive circulation last year.

So we were featured in a professional library journal that just cited how active Greater Victoria Public Library system is.

Some of the other things that we introduced in this past year were the distribution of free menstrual products throughout all 12 of our branches.

Over 18,000 of these items were distributed by the end of September.

We also have installed water bottle stations that dispense cold water into water bottles, which means we've saved quite a lot of um quite a lot of uh wastage, if I can put it this way.

GBPL is a key community partner.

We're so proud of the work that has been done to support equity, diversity, inclusivity and accessibility in our community the need for safe third spaces has never been more important and I would like to take this opportunity to express our thanks to the City of Victoria's EDIA office for initiating the Welcome Stickers program that's made available to G VPL and other community interest holders across the region.

We're doing quite a lot of work with EDIA that's one of the projects that we're focusing on with our um provincial enhancement grants to ensure that barriers are removed.

Okay, the next slide um just tells you that again, public libraries are community connectors.

Canada's public libraries have evolved into vital partners for every level of government, supporting the common good by serving critical mandates.

And you may have noticed in the slide deck that you saw ahead that there's a number of references that have been made on the slides to a report published by the Canadian Urban Institute this fall entitled Overdue the Case for Canada's Public Libraries.

In a related article by the Global Mail reporter, it was noted that despite, quote, dire predictions that bricks and mortar libraries would become obsolete in the digital age, they have become even more important in recent years as essential community hubs.

In fact, the headline for his piece was paying more attention to the health and social benefits of libraries is overdue.

And if he quoted an observation from the Boston Public Library, which discovered one of the biggest services it provides is simply its space, giving people a place to be for free.

The next slides are just some photos of some recent events that took place.

And then I think this will bring a smile to many people's eyes.

And as a result of that, 22% of all accounts had their fines removed.

There were a number of blocked accounts that were unblocked.

And this I have to really commend members of the library board, particularly Councillor Lemon, who really advocated for this removal of barriers to access to library services.

So just that is there's my slide.

So just going back to the highlights of the strategic plan that has been completed this year.

Expanded world languages collections.

We are working on with an EDIA consultant in terms of compliance with accessible, the Accessible BC Act, and we'll continue championing equity, diversity, inclusivity, and accessibility.

We will continue identifying unmet community needs and service gaps to build a thriving, engaged, and informed greater Victoria.

Public libraries are community anchors, and through expanded open hours and hosting cultural events that foster a sense of belonging, our libraries will continue to be welcoming spaces.

Our partnerships with groups like the BC Settlement and Integration Services and Social Planning Councils will continue to support vulnerable populations.

We also are bridging the digital divide.

As I said, our use of digital resources is growing in leaps and bounds.

But in addition, we're providing free access to tech toys, adaptive technology and services, public computers, Wi-Fi, printing and photocopying services so that everyone has the ability to thrive in a digital world.

Through our expanded ebook, audiobook, digital magazine, and newspaper and online databases, library users will continue having access to the content they want and need from everywhere.

So for the budget itself, you have received our budget package.

The library board and staff have worked hard to develop the budget for 2024 that is realistic and resourceful.

As you know, approximately 90% of the G VPL's operating budget is funded by our 10 municipal partners.

Consequently, a key objective is to balance and maintain municipal contribution increases against service delivery, rates of inflation, and projected wage increases as negotiated through the GBLRA.

So again, you've received this information.

We are requesting an overall municipal contribution increase of 5.99% overall.

We've worked very hard to keep the increase as minimal as possible, but like so many other agencies, pressures to expand our services and reach continue to grow.

Expectations from the public driven further by pressures of inflation and significant media coverage of innovative public library projects across the country.

We believe this budget supports equitable access to services and programs that make a difference to the lives of residents by engaging them in a love of reading and lifelong learning, addressing the digital divide and fostering collaboration, creativity, and innovation.

The 2024 requisition for the town of View Royal, based on converted assessment values and populations, and including rental adjustments as per the library operating agreement, is $624,225.

This works up to a contribution increase for 2024 of $48,142.

Over last year, cost per capita increase is $3.82.

When Andrew Carnegie built the first public libraries in North America, they referred to as palaces for the people.

Libraries bring people together.

We are not only the third place in the community, but we are the one place where people of all ages and stages are welcome to stay and explore as long as they want, spending time, not money.

Making life more affordable is a key priority for all 10 of our municipalities and the province.

And public libraries fill an essential role in providing individuals with equitable access to the resources they need to thrive and strengthen the entire community.

So, in conclusion, I would just end with our with uh a reminder that when you come to the library, either in person or online, you have not only freedom but freedom to belong and discover.

So now, Vice Chair Carr and I would be pleased to respond to any questions.

Thank you.

Thank you very much for your presentation and for the work that you do as well.

Uh just a question before I turn it over to my colleagues for theirs.

Um, how much of your budget comes from provincial or federal contributions?

Um, as you probably know, our budget has been frozen by the province um for over 10 years.

So it's um in this current the last year, it's works out to be about $650,000.

So I mean, as they say, over 90% of the budget is funded through the municipalities.

Yeah.

We did receive enhancement grants, as you know, one-time provincial enhancement grants to be expended over last year and the next two years for extraordinary opportunities.

So we have many ideas on what we're going to be doing with that.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Councilor Qualwic, please.

Thank you.

And thank you, Councillor Levin, for your contributions to the library board.

We're very proud of her.

I was just thinking uh when we were talking about the uh infrastructure uh improvements needed to libraries and I assume you didn't receive any of the growing communities fund uh as part of the provincial grants you're looking at me and not knowing what I'm talking about.

I know municipalities got um additional funding.

Um the province as a whole received 45 million dollars.

So it was spread out among the 71 public library systems.

Yeah.

So um we are aware that there's additional funding that went directly to the municipalities and we'd love to know what you're gonna do with it.

Yeah no I'm just I mean we've we've discussed kind of uh I serve as on the West Shore Parks board.

So I I certainly understand uh, you know, representing different communities and the challenges that uh comes along with that.

I'm just thinking that perhaps that's something we consider in the future for the growing community funds if we can allocate any of our funding to you know the library capital costs, if that would cover that, but we can deal with that later.

I certainly agree.

Uh and yes, your presentation was great.

Uh, when it comes to places for Canadians and in this case, View Royal Residents to Go libraries and rec centers are uh the very few places that everybody are welcome at and that are open uh for large periods of time.

Uh and I applaud you making it uh more accessible and more diverse and more welcome.

So uh we appreciate that.

As for uh I have two two questions.

Uh what type of metrics or statistics do you take to uh decide whether to toggle services uh up or down to remain uh fiscally responsible uh to taxpayers?

For example, I know you have a very large digital footprint right now on the G VPL that's expanded considerably over the last five years.

How do you monitor that to determine the usage and whether you're getting a proper bang for your buck?

That's a great question.

As you know, when COVID hit all of us, we really had to accelerate our investment in digital resources because for many months most of our library branches were shuttered.

You know, there was no physical access.

And what we found since that time is that people have certainly returned to the usage of print materials, but the interest in non print materials has just grown.

Like it's not diminished, it's growing.

And I was asked by another library system in BC what accounted for our extremely high usage numbers.

And I would have to give a lot of credit to our staff who select.

So I would have to say that our metric is usage, and the usage continues to escalate.

So as we invest more, there's more usage of these resources.

So I know that we were quite taken by the fact that we were one of not that many Canadian libraries that were cited in this 2023 report in terms of hitting an over a million usage just for the overdrive materials.

So I think that we're very responsive to what people are asking.

We can't do as much as what people would like.

I know we have a request for purchase service that we do that that we can't always accommodate.

You know, we look at things like reviews and and um interesting things.

So I think as a library, we still are considered one of the highest per capita circulating libraries in Canada.

And that means that our users really use us well.

So that that's kind of a real indicator of of why we continue to invest so much in those resources.

I should also mention we are part of a consortium that allows us to uh um purchase things as part of a consortium um in British Columbia.

Yeah.

So we do get some pretty good um rates for what we buy.

Great.

And the last question, I noticed that your supplies and services budget increased 30%.

Uh and you know, we know that budgets uh in particular like the library and rec centers, uh, the GVLRA, uh, the wages is a huge factor.

So staying lean is is so challenging at times.

So yeah, uh perhaps you could just tell us what the 30% increase was uh in supplies and services this year.

Absolutely.

And I should just also mention that um one of my notes is that okay, supplies and services.

I knew you would ask that question.

Okay, supplies and services include such items as telephones, networks, printer paper and other supplies, and shuttle fuel.

The primary driver for the increases is that and this area is related to higher IT related costs from third party suppliers, i.e., data connections and IT service agreements, license fees, along with the ongoing strategic commitment that we have of enhancing digital services and access.

Additionally, higher costs associated with the provision and renewal of patron and staff equipment and associated support licenses will continue to drive costs in this category.

But I should mention that we also, you may have noticed we had a decrease in our building building occupancy costs.

And that is mainly due to realized hydro savings, as high as 35% in some locations from branch LED lighting conversions.

So we are working really hard to mitigate those cost increases by more resource friendly, as I say, the lighting review.

That that was amazing because we my figures are that we are seeing, yeah, realistic uh funneling back into the system through a sustainability perspective, which is helping to offset these other costs.

But our suppliers, we are getting requests of increases, and this includes things like janitorial, anywhere from five to ten to fifteen percent increases in contracted costs.

So it's yeah.

Thank you.

Thanks.

Councillor McKenzie, please.

And I appreciate you attending as I have a few questions.

Thank you.

So um my first question is whether you royal residents are using the services relative to the amount that we're paying in.

So I was wondering, do you have any data that is available on a municipal level of usage?

That is a question that that we are constantly trying to answer.

It's difficult in terms of you know, sometimes where people register, what you know they're using their business address, their home address.

So I can't give you a definitive number.

I can certainly take it back to our staff to see if there's something we can do.

Um we've we have more analytics now than we did before, so that that's something that we're working on.

So I can't I can't give you an answer for that right now, but I understand the question.

Thank you.

Yes, thank you for that because uh with the West Shore Parks and Rec, they're able to show the percentage of the town that uses it and then relative to the percentage that we should contribute.

So which is very useful.

Yeah.

My second question is around the removal of the lake fees.

I was wondering what has been the financial impact of that and have you also seen additional costs in having to replace inventory because people don't have an incentive now to return uh their items.

Okay.

So in terms of impact, um one thing that that the board was very much aware of is that there it it was a very minimal amount of revenue realized from overdue fines.

And when you think about we haven't really had um we've had a leniency approach since COVID started.

So our our figures from 2019, I think it was 1.9% of our overall revenue was from overdue fines.

And I used to kid about that um back in the before times to say that one of the reasons for that is that our customer service approach was much improved.

So I you you probably know you get reminders you know you get reminders two days before your material is due back.

You're advised if it's renewable or not.

If it is renewable, it's automatically renewed.

So that um from an actual impact on our budget, it was pretty well nil.

We just started, as you know, last month, so it's a little too soon to tell what the um impact is on our borrowing.

But one of the reasons we were one of the last large library systems in Canada to have eliminated overdue fines.

Like as Councillor Lemon knows, and and I'd have to say Councillor Rogers when he was on the board before Councillor Lemon, this was a long debate at the library board level.

But the recognition we were getting from other libraries was that it had absolutely a minimum, minimal impact on returns.

And in fact, it what it will do, and we're going to be doing a very um much more proactive campaign to gain more library card users is that once that kind of um, you know, it that punitive kind of approach was eliminated, um, there really was no overall um detriment to to return in books.

So I mean again, everyone every system's different, but uh we wouldn't have done it.

Uh I can tell you that we wouldn't have done it if the evidence from other libraries was oh no, it really has um caused some issues.

Yeah.

Great, that's uh really good to hear.

Yeah.

And my final question, I noticed in the budget report, it specifically said there wasn't any anticipated um big like buildings coming up.

Um, but I also know in 2021 there was talk about remodeling the central branch or moving it.

So I was wondering if there's any update on timelines of that.

And no, um the city of Victoria has been working on the staff have got all the information that they've got and they have been looking at the pros and cons of what to do.

So there hasn't been a report issued yet.

I believe it will be going to council in the spring.

But I don't have any any any information other than they they they did um uh focus quite a lot of time in terms of working on uh developing uh a business case.

We do have our own um service delivery plan in which we're looking at um things like alternative service um opportunities, for example, maybe maybe um you know more partnerships with existing organizations to have a library presence, but as far as the central branch as the city of victoria um discussion and and and with with view royal as well since that is your branch yeah thank you yeah counselor brown mattson any questions um good thank you enjoyed the presentation thank you uh councillor rogers please thank you um yeah first off um a commentary on on the province it's um very limited long dragged out disappointing uh contributions to such an important service.

Um I think with the province now um giving its edict that it's going to load the city with 500 000 people uh over a number of years um you think they'd be anteing up and and making contributions to the library.

The silver lining might be and and staff can help me with this one um there is a new bylaw uh or bill that they put on um uh community amenities for police stations, rec centers, and I think libraries may be on that list, buildings, infrastructure.

So um uh I I think one of the uh things that um I hope that um the GVPO would get a quick jump on is working with municipalities and uh and devising its uh DCC, whatever it would be, whether you however you want to call it, so that you can get some percentage that work out the assist factor.

And uh so everybody, every new building that's coming up, every new suite, every new sixplex, fourplex, you know, those individuals would be uh you know contributing to this library system and and the infrastructure that's required.

So I would uh urge you to um jump on that with a great deal of investigation.

And in terms of the budget report, um reserves mystify me.

I don't understand because I don't I don't really feel that I've um got enough information about it.

The um it it seems like um it's you know the transfer to uh contingency reserve is nothing but the transfer from is like 400,000 or something like that.

So I I I don't understand you know what your reserves are and and certainly staff have done an excellent job in the last week of convincing uh this council that reserves are terribly critical and I'd love to be able to see you what those reserves are for the library.

Yeah.

Um I do have a couple of notes about that as you as you know I am without my director of finance right now so just give me a moment um because that question does come up okay reserve process.

Um reserves at the library are held and I think you may recall this to fund special projects facility related work planned or unplanned revenue shortfalls.

The accumulation of reserves is planned and approved as is the expenditure of reserves.

The reserves are not held or utilized in the same way municipalities may hold them, you know, and I know that that's always kind of something that has to be clarified.

And that reserves are specifically allocated from prior year surplus and held according to planned approved projects.

So GVPL, we we have six reserve funds library materials, consulting, contingency replacement, personnel contingency, and ITS replacement.

So common question is how are reserves accumulated?

Reserve funds are specifically accumulated on the balance sheet from appropriation of surplus from prior years.

The finance committee of the board, which is made up of several municipal counselors, um, and subsequently the board approve the allocation of surplus funds to specific reserve accounts for specific uses related to project work and the strategic bridge plan or the current strategic plan or other non-operational expenditures unless specifically approved by the board.

So what normally would happen to gain that approval for these expect expenditures is management would draft a business case recommendation for the finance committee and the board for approval.

So first everything goes through the finance committee, and and I think I've made this point in prior presentations.

That is a really rigorous process.

So by the time our budget does go to the library board in October for approval.

There's there's quite a lot of confidence that our 10 member counselor members, we have 10 counselors on our board, and nine citizen reps have really gone through it in a great deal of detail.

And we also have obviously consulted with our our um colleagues, our staff colleagues at the municipalities.

Uh reserve fund expenditures as they are approved from prior year.

Surplus allocation by the board result in a net zero cost implication on the operating budget overall.

So thank you.

You came prepared.

I did.

I've been I've been really um No, but I mean these are good questions.

They're important questions, and and I I like having notes that I can be clear on.

Yeah.

Another question.

So um we're all about um reducing GHCs.

Uh the the staff you've done an excellent job and get bringing in heat pumps.

How about heat pumps for libraries?

I know we're looking at um electric vehicles for our shuttles.

Yeah.

So um heat pumps, I can talk to our facility staff about that.

And also to our member municipalities, because as you know, the facilities that we operate from are provided by the municipalities.

So there's a point to which it it goes back to them.

Yeah.

But keep on.

Yeah.

Um, you know, I don't go to libraries anymore.

I use your digital services, which are amazing.

And the nice thing about that, I don't have to worry about fines at all.

It goes, it's off my phone.

So, you know, I I like that.

But the wait list, you know, for um it seems to be much longer for a digital copy than it might be for a paper copy isn't is that a an erroneous assumption?

Um it depends.

It depends on what it is, but um you know unfortunately you it it's counterintuitive but digital material is more expensive way more expensive the licensing the terms uh so in fact we can't purchase as many because they are very expensive on the other hand if if you think that we should purchase more then we can certainly consider that for next year well it sounds like publishers are putting a phone to my head okay so um and the comment from counselor McKenzie is is a good one.

Um you know while it may be uh a miss we're not 100% accurate but I would love to know how many addresses in V Royal have a library card and if there's any way that we can through our our website you know do some PR and increase that usage and and um you know get people uh signed up and and in the door um mayor Tobias mentioned that last year I remember and we were just in the in the early days of of kind of uh developing our um communications staffing so this is uh this is a top priority for me is is a library card campaign yeah thank you yeah thank you thank you very much for your presentation thank you very much for inviting us and uh next up is uh upgrading the ENN for intercity rail.

Mr.

Weber, please.

Mayor Tobias.

Sir.

Thank you.

There is on this uh recommendation sheet under petitions and delegation an item for the G VPL for the Yeah, I've seen that, and we should move it in discussion with the CAO.

We shouldn't be entertaining motions directly related with Pets and Dells.

Okay.

So we could add that under new business.

Go ahead, sir.

Thank you, Mayor and Council.

Um, for having me here today.

My name is Guire Weber.

I live in the Nymal.

And I am here today to talk about an idea for an all-day passenger rail service on the ENN.

An ENN Intercity Passenger Rail Service would have trains running between Courtney and Victoria and from Port Alberni to Parksville.

Additional stations over what was mentioned in the IRCCA report would be at Cobble Hill, Shimanus, Nanaimo Airport, Lanceville, Buckley Bay, Coombs, and Port Alberney.

The rail line would eventually be extended to Campbell River as was originally planned.

This does not mean no bus or bus lane expansion.

For example, if the train and the buses are scheduled every two hours with two alternating, this would have a train frequency of every hour north of Lankford.

If the train and the bus are running every hour, then the transit frequency is every 30 minutes.

When the Courtney DeQualica Beach Bus is in service, it would take five BC transit buses to travel from Courtney to Victoria and six buses from Campbell River.

The EN Intercity would be a one-train ride with no transfers and will not be affected by road closures.

The travel time would be approximately three and a half hours.

An ENN Intercity passenger train can also provide additional service in specific sections such as Victoria to Langford.

Whoops.

Okay.

Don, is there a trick to where the sensor is for the remote.

Can we get staff to forward them for you?

Okay, I got it.

If you stop doing that, then we'll just say next slide, and I think somebody will.

Okay, I think we got it now.

Uh the first phase of the ENN inner city would be from Victoria to Duncan.

Stations would be at Duncan, Cobble Hill, Shonigan Lake, Langford Exchange, Six Mile Road, Portage Park, Lampson Street, and downtown Victoria.

Negotiate with the Cowichan tribes, Esquimel, and Songhees First Nations to allow the rail to continue to run through the reserve.

Two trains running all day between Victoria and Duncan would have a frequency of approximately 75 every 75 minutes.

Four additional trains running all day between Victoria and Langford would have a frequency of every 12 to 15 minutes.

The travel time between Duncan and Victoria would be approximately 60 minutes.

The travel time between Langford Exchange and downtown Victoria would be 20 minutes.

Travel time from Portage Park, out your back door, 10 minutes.

The Island Corridor Foundation does not have the funds to upgrade the ENN for passenger rail service.

A company overseen by the Ministry of Transportation directly or by BC Transit would design, build, and maintain the passenger rail equipment and track.

The ICF would continue to own the corridor and manage the freight operations.

BCRTC and the West Coast Express in the Lower Mainland were originally under BC Transit before they were transferred to Translane.

The cost of the ultimate phase for the IRCCA report from Victoria to Langford is $36 million.

The cost of the ultimate phase from Langford to Duncan is $150 million.

Now, this is prior to COVID.

There is a manufacturing plant in BC that produces concrete ties.

In addition to the railbed costs, our stations, rail vehicles, a maintenance building near Duncan, a signaling system, overhead power from Victoria to Langford, and a tunnel to downtown Victoria, which I'll get to in a minute.

The BC Transit 2011 LRT plan will now cost $3 billion based on the recent cost of the Mississauga LRT, which has come in at $200 million a kilometer.

The total hold cost to build the ENN inner city rail from Victoria to Duncan would be less than a third of the LRT and provide rail rapid transit between Langford and Victoria.

This reduces the travel time to 20 minutes and eliminates nine level crossings.

The estimated travel time for the LRT was 38 minutes.

I found tunnel calculator online, and rough cost for the tunnel would be approximately $225 million for a single bore single track tunnel and approximately 100 million plus for the station box.

The station in Victoria area.

The stations in Victoria area would be at Langford Exchange, Six Mile Road, Hortage Park, Lampson Street, and downtown Victoria.

All stations are double tracked and double platforms to allow the trains to pass.

This would allow a frequency of every 12-50 minutes with four trains.

A second option would have the stations at Langford Exchange, Six Mile Road, Admiral's Road, and Downtown Victoria.

Langford Exchange and downtown Victoria would be double tracked, double platforms, and Six Mile Road and Admiral's Roads are a single platform with a passing siding between the Island Highway and Hallowell Road.

This would allow for a frequency of approximately 20 minutes with two trains.

The rolling stock would be battery electric multiple units, BEMUs, and would run on overhead power from Victoria to Langford, then on battery north to Duncan.

When the line is extended further north, the overhead power would be at intervals to charge the batteries.

This scenario is already happening in Germany using the Stadler flirts.

The top picture shows a single level Stadler flirt DEMU, but the BMUs would be similar.

Germany tested both hydrogen fuel cell and battery electric multiple units and found the BEMUs cost less to run.

The bottom picture shows a bi-level Stadler KISS EMU, which could be used in the Victoria to Langford section that has overhead power.

An eight-car bilevel train running every 20 minutes from Victoria to Langford can carry up to 6,000 passengers per hour per direction.

If the frequency is every 15 minutes, then the train can carry 8,000 passengers per hour per direction.

And if the frequency is every 12 minutes, then the train can carry 10,000 passengers per hour per direction.

Caltrain has ordered a battery-powered version of the Stadler KISS to test in the San Francisco Bay Area.

If the tests are successful, the Stadler KISS BMU could be used on the line north of Langford.

Both the Stadler Flirt and the Stadler KISS are FRA compliant.

Roughly 10% of the rail corridor runs through a First Nations reserve.

Any First Nations that wants the land back, the land is returned and the rail line would be moved around or under the reserve.

For the Squamill and Song East First Nations, the track could be placed underground in a cut and cover tunnel if required.

For the Hallot First Nations, the rail line could be moved to the west around the reserve.

For the Sonumas First Nations, again, the rail line could be moved to the west or around the reserve.

Or the Sonoma First Nations, one option is to move the rail line underground west around the reserve.

The other option is to move the Wilcox rail yard to Duke Point along with the Propane Depot.

A link from Duke Point to the main line does not have to be built immediately and can be built at a later time.

Most of the traffic for the freight is at the harbor.

There's only propane tanks going to the uh uh propane depot.

Uh a link, um both options would allow the land to be returned to the first nation.

For the Sonoma uh Sonona's First Nations, the land has already been returned, so the rail line would go underground around the reserve.

Eventually, the line would be extended to Campbell River, completing the original plan for the ENN.

This would connect most of the major cities on Vancouver Island.

This auction has a station located on the south side of Campbell River, with the local buses feeding into the railway station.

Parksville would have two platforms, one for the Port Alberney to Parksville train and one for the Victoria to Campbell River train.

There would be a link for freight trains to run from Port Alberni sub to the Victoria Sub, including the Y.

The fair zones would be based on a single adult fair in Victoria, with each zone a multiple of zone one.

And I just threw this one in.

Yeah, so in about oh.

Um rapid bus routes in Calwood and Langford would connect Royal Bay to downtown Victoria in 30 minutes plus the transfer.

This may require bus-only lanes to have a bus travel time of 10 minutes from Royal Bay to Langford Exchange.

No, in about upgrading the EN inner city and the bus would have the passenger capacity for years to come in the Victoria area until a metro is required.

And I just threw that is about 30 years from now.

This idea for a metro would eventually provide fast rail transit from Souk to Sydney with no transfers.

The travel time from Collwood, Victoria, View Street would be approximately 15 minutes.

The travel time from Esquimalt to Ogden Point would be approximately five minutes.

It takes 40 minutes on a bus right now.

The ENN Intercity and the R95 would continue to provide rapid transit for V Royal.

In conclusion, upgrading the rail line does not eliminate bus service, but bus service would expand.

The NN Intercity would be a one-train ride between Campbell River and Victoria with no transfers and will not be affected by road closures.

The travel time between Langford and Victoria is 20 minutes versus 38 minutes on the LRT.

Upgrading the ENN from Victoria to Duncan and increasing the bus service would be one-third the cost of the LRT.

So I would like to ask council if you like the idea of an intercity passenger rail service to inform the provincial government and any other relative relevant bodies.

And the other is the two options for stations, which one you kind of like better than the other.

One has uh station at Portage Park here, the other one doesn't.

It would be, and you move Lambson Street to um Admiral's.

So and that's it.

Thank you for my time.

Thank you very much.

And Mr.

Weber, did you drive all the way down from the Naimo today?

I did.

Just for this council meeting, or were you having thank you very much for your presentation?

Your thought went in and traveling all the way down from the Naimo to share your thoughts with us because uh I I I share your passion about uh being able to re reinvigulate the uh the rail service.

And are you affiliated at all with the Island Rail Foundation?

You know the Iowa Island Rail Corps.

I'm uh I'm on my own.

I've been you you've had some of my uh uh uh present uh not presentations but uh emails that I've sent in over the years.

I've gone through a whole bunch of scenarios and I'm kind of tweaking down to one that's not going to cost an arm and a leg and one that has fast travel times.

LRT is not the be all and end all, and uh that's why I started this in '93 with Vancouver and the SkyTrain LRT debate.

That's how that all started.

So um, yeah, so I just wanted to bring the information out and get um you know things growing for at some point in time.

Well, thank you.

So you're looking uh for council to continue advocating the province and the regional district for a rail line.

And I know uh the last of the provincial government had handed it over to the regional districts on the island uh to negotiate with their First Nations uh initially, uh, because certainly as you indicated here, there's lots of rail that goes through First Nations.

So that's actually what's being done now.

Um there's interest in not only up island, but using the same rail or the same corridor for some type of transportation that would help us out in the West Shore with our traffic issues that I'm sure that you're if you came down, you got it lucky if you were going back to the case.

I actually did pretty good.

I came down earlier today.

So yeah, no, it's you know, anything's a lot of money, but you know, you try to save a couple bucks here and there.

And trying to use the ENN at the best possible scenario.

I mean, rail is mine.

I like to see the trail built alongside of it, which it is loud at this point, anyways.

And uh, so I'm not against that at all.

And uh, and and CRD's done a very good job on that for trails around uh uh Galvin House and beside the ENN.

But um, you know, there's DMUs, there's the uh by-level uh with locomotives, and there's a whole works, but you know, we you need transportation here in the CRD.

So if you combine the use with the two, then it covers everybody, not just the CRD and not just up island.

Uh it would do for a long time.

Eventually you're gonna have to go into a metro, but trying to put that off as long as possible because that man ain't cheap.

So um, so that's kind of the idea.

Use the maximum out, keep it the single track, but use the passing lanes and passing sidings.

And this, well, first option on the stations was all the stations are the passing sightings.

So train comes in, gotta wait for the other one to come in the other direction the way it goes in the next one.

So definitely.

Uh I'll just pass it over to my colleagues for some brief questions.

Um Council Rogers.

Thank you for the amount of work that you put into this.

Yeah.

Uh have you have you um approached any other municipalities, uh, any regional districts, uh the provincial government, First Nations?

Um, I've emailed all the First Nations, or the ones I could find emails for.

And um I an older version I've emailed to the um uh G VR, uh G VR, the regional districts throughout the corridor.

Um I think I did the latest ones as well, but um we'll be doing more.

I have sent it to the uh Island Corridor Foundation, um, and also the Minister of Transportation too.

So yeah, yeah, well again, thank you.

I'm I'm I'm quite uh impressed that um this amount of work, particularly uh tunnels and so forth, um you know, for this length in the CRD would only be three dollars a ticket.

You know, the I thought it would have been more like 30.

No, I well I based it on uh Victoria area.

So um Suit roundabout to downtown Victoria is about 36, 37 kilometers.

So I started off with zone one, the same as the the bus, and then 36 kilometer segments up the line till they got to Campbell River.

So that's how the seven zones ended up getting.

Okay, thank you.

I I guess allow me my editorial comment.

Um, I'm I'm glad you've written and made some contact with the First Nations because the province is dealing with the First Nations.

Municipalities are lame ducks, regional districts are lame ducks.

These just my view.

And so if you can get the province to give the money to the First Nations and they like it, it will be built.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Any more questions?

Oh, Councillor McKenzie.

Yes, thank you for coming, and I appreciate all the thought that's gone into this.

I was wondering if in your time presenting and speaking about this, uh, whether you've received any concerns from people and if you could share kind of what those might have been.

Not really.

The only time I actually got a phone call with the Sonana's First Nations when they wanted their land back, and I hadn't put that any of you know going around it within at that point in time, they're going to just rebuild the existing corner through the existing reserves.

But then the decision was made uh to hand the land back.

And that was the only way things are going to move ahead is to if First Nations want their right-of-way back, hand it back, yes, it's going to be you know more expensive to move the rail around.

But you know, at the end of the day, you're uh skytrains $250 million a kilometer.

Well, LRT's $200 million a kilometer.

This is $15 million a kilometer from uh Victoria to Duncan and it'll drop to about well, actually, it's 45 million a kilometer if you're looking at the Victoria to Langford section, because you also you got to buy all whoops, all the equipment first, and that's the big ticket item.

It's $20 dollars a $20 million dollars a train.

So that all adds up.

But then after that, you're looking at $4 million a go a kilometer, go from Langford up to Duncan and then beyond, with exceptions where if you do have to go around, it'll be a little bit more.

But so, you know, in the weird terms of railway, it's cheap, you know.

And the tunnel, yes, it's expensive, but then now when you come from anywhere, including Langford or here, you get out at View Street by the bus exchange downtown.

Well, thank you again for your presentation, COVID.

Thank you.

And I think that uh brings us to a public participation period.

Have we got anybody in the room that would like to address council?

Don, you don't count.

Um you can come and address us any time.

But anybody in the room would like to address council if there's nobody, no shame.

Uh Carl, we got anybody on the line?

Mayor Tobias, we have no callers.

Okay.

I think we're down to committee to the whole resolutions.

And I see we have four of them.

I would move as the block.

Uh I'm gonna pull number four out.

I move one and one to three.

Anybody else want to move any out?

Once, twice, three times.

Councilor Rogers, you have a motion for one, two, three.

Is there a second, or second?

We're good.

You motivating, or you just do okay.

All those in favor of uh approving the committee's uh recommendations, uh one, two, and three.

Any opposed?

Seeing none opposed.

Um standing committee membership that council McKenzie wrote.

I initially was supportive of this uh for advisory committees and not for standing committees.

And my reason in opposition, uh initially I was I was um I was in favor of it, but I recognize that the standing committees could be for specific things.

They could be for a standing committee for youth or for um or for aged or for a focus area like Glentana or um or the North and the Helmkin district.

They could be made up of very specific things.

And I think counselor Mackenzie you are um kind of um not in favor of a mayor's select uh standing committee uh and its membership but that's one of the only differences between a mayor and a counselor that I get to select a committee, and that's my decision on who goes on that committee.

So I would say um you know, your your particular motion would stand wonderfully with advisory committees.

But I don't think we can have a standing committee be influenced by this motion because the circumstances are too diverse and may change.

With a single area with a focus group, I think where it will really shine and come to play is involving the IF2 principles for an advisory committee, because we're looking for a good cross-section.

But I wouldn't want uh myself or any future mayor to be hampered by saying that he can't uh pick a select group of people to study a certain thing for a short period of time and uh help um that committee uh present their findings to council, which council ultimately has control over.

So my only concern with that is that uh I'm I'm all for it for advisory committees, but I don't even think it would be viable for uh a standing committee because um it's for a short term and a limited uh um diversion.

There's three, depending on the size of the council.

There is a citizen for every councillor on a standing committee.

So it's not a a large committee presence, and in this case it has three committee members.

So I don't know what formula I would use for diversity inclusion for three committee members and and be accurate.

So that's my opposition uh to it, but I'll leave it over for other comments.

Yes, thank you.

Counselor Matson.

The mayor has one of the benefits of being mayor is you have certain uh authority to do things that counselors don't, and um I I don't think we should be trying to infringe upon that.

Um also legislatively, I guess staff could comment, but I don't even think uh I I think the motion is just for providing advice, and at the end of the day, the mayor would get to make up his mind or her mind on who they want on a standing committee, and counselor really doesn't have any say.

So, anyways, I don't support the resolution as it's written.

Thank you.

Councilor Qualit.

Thank you.

Certainly I think in spirit here this is the uh this is a very noble uh noble cause and I think we've discussed this so much uh and evolved over the past couple years and I uh I applaud Councilor McKenzie for pursuing uh representation, diversity uh the the motion itself or the the resolution or uh wherever we're at here does uh on its own merits.

Um certainly um factually the the mayor does have the ability to select committees on uh his or her own accord.

Um I I I would you know caution um or at least suggest that every single committee, uh, if able, uh a diverse and equitable lens be applied to it.

Uh certainly I know uh we've all shared that sentiment here, including Mayor Tobias, about uh pursuing uh those interests uh as we can, limited uh people volunteering at times, so it can be challenging.

So um uh that's that's my take on it.

And again, uh like I've said before, uh I plan on circling back from a few years ago and putting my money where my mouth is and and actually putting something forward about uh applying uh diversity equity inclusion lens to to certain aspects of uh the town of E Royal and uh becoming more structured that way Councillor McKa first on um on impact for this just as um Scott you understand the legislation right now yeah the legislation supports uh the mayor choosing committee members um certainly for standing committees so this would be more of a guidance document to assist the mayor with uh future committee selections um we need to be careful not to fetter the mayor's discretion it is one of the uh few perks of being the mayor uh is the ability to select committee members um but i uh i think a a document that that speaks to diversity and inclusion uh and in representation and committees um would be very helpful for other committee and future committee selections and i would certainly um support something because if we make this motion then when it comes to advisory committee motions we need to make another motion.

I'd i'd be okay if it would just uh instead of the mayor's selection of standing committee, just say committee members to ensure diverse representation of neighborhoods' demographics or perspectives, uh, be more than happy with entertaining something like that because it wouldn't be so prescriptive.

Um, councillor McKenzie and then Councillor Rogers.

Yes, my intent was that these would be uh guiding principles, so there would certainly be flexibility to change it depending on what the committee was about.

And ideally, I wouldn't have had to have raised this at all.

Uh but unfortunately, um I I saw that these are values of inclusivity and diversity were not uh shown in our actions.

So I think it's not just the mayor, I think all of us members of council, we can be more aware of this and how we can be more inclusive in our actions, and this would serve as a reminder, just as something we would look at to consider.

Maybe not necessarily follow every time if the circumstances call for it.

But I think it's a good reminder for all of us.

Thank you.

Council Roger.

Yes, uh I'm it's great to hear the various points.

I guess the uh the key thing is that um uh I'm sure that um when any mayor considers the task force and a standing committee, uh he's going to want to make sure that there's a reasonable uh selection of uh representation and demographics uh work experience and life skills, uh, because otherwise um you know this this committee is still gonna have to stand the test of time and the test of test of credibility when it comes to this council and uh and we're gonna we're gonna hear what they have to say and and measure that upon um um you know all sorts of um intake and thoughts so um i i understand i would much rather have the staff focus uh on best practices and and uh move thing the advisory committees along and thank you councilor lemon um i've i wasn't i wasn't in last week's discussion but uh certainly Mayor Tobias, and given what our CAO has said, and uh um you you're right.

I agree.

And but i also agree with with counselor mckenzie, and didn't so much that we do, you know, everything, the representation of this council, um itself.

Uh we need to be aware and attuned and um and um representative of the people of of this community.

Do you need a do you need a motion or or did you make a motion?

I don't think a motion has been made.

I just pulled that one out for discussion.

I said I'd be happy with a friendly amendment to say uh committees instead of the mayor's selection on standing committee uh members, uh, that that'll be that overall guidance, but we can do one or two things here.

The the the amendment is there if somebody wants to make a motion to strike out uh a part or amend what's there and and push that, or we could vote on this amendment, and then if it doesn't pass, then go to the that amendment.

Councilor Matson.

Okay, based on that, I'd like to just amend it to committees as opposed to standing from standing committees.

Councilor McKenzie.

Would that include standing committees, then?

Um Councillor Mattson.

No, because then again, I don't want to dictate to the uh mayor.

Councilor Roger.

Yeah, so uh I I would think that you know as when we're coming to the advisory committees, um do we have best practices?

Are we um uh is it something that we need to have in place or um can we do without that uh the uh given as long as we're uh taking consideration of diversity and equity and that kind of thing?

Um so how we do we need it for to move along and and get the advisory committees going?

Is that uh a key component um as as far as this motion is or amended motion might be?

Through the mayor, we we don't require uh a policy on this.

Um if representation is happening and it's diverse and inclusive.

Um certainly a policy is not required.

And I suppose it will depend on who volunteers for the committees.

Um it's it's a tough, it's a tough uh selection out there, but if there's not many candidates to choose from, um we we do have positions to fill.

If we have a wide array of volunteers lined up, that policy might come in handy.

Indeed.

So if we get a flurry of volunteers coming in from our residents, our community, uh, then we would be able to perhaps uh be lucky, fortunate enough to uh pick and choose base of these characters, um, these individuals.

So um let's um let's take those values and you know, as far as as far as the motion is concerned, I'd be happy just to table them.

Councilor Matson.

Yeah, I'm not sure if we're going to do anything with this motion, but uh rather than committees, I wanted would like to amend that to sort of advisory committees because it focuses on advisory committees.

And then just in terms of that, I mean, I I'd really love that we have to make a tough decision on who we choose for our advisory committees and be able to use uh this sort of criteria to determine who's uh who's on those committees, but realistically, we really we haven't been getting huge numbers of people volunteering and we're Bailey, barely able to fill the committees with uh uh the numbers that we do have.

So it the whole thing could be moved in the in reality anyway.

But uh by having an advisory committee, uh equity and diversity uh sort of policy, at least it says it says where we would like to go, but uh in reality, it it may not make a difference because uh as Scott mentioned of who we actually get applying, whether they're sufficient individuals.

Councilor Brown, did you have a comment?

You're the only one that hasn't spoken so far, so I'm picking on it.

No, I like I dislike the idea of uh us doing some recruiting ourselves.

I think we can just let it be.

I don't uh I don't I don't I won't support uh this particular uh uh this particular motion.

The original motion I won't be supporting.

Okay.

Thank you, Councilor Brown.

Uh so the question is uh what to do with the motion now.

Do you want me to call a vote?

Uh Councilor McKenzie, it's your motion.

Do you want me to call a vote on it?

Did you want to amend it?

I would be happy to amend it to include all committees, including standing committees.

Okay.

Do you have a seconder?

I'll second for discussion.

Okay, Council Quellin.

Yeah.

Are you uh like to motivate more or I think um if if we do really value inclusion and diversity, I don't see how you can argue against this.

You either believe in it or you don't, and you show that in your documents, in your policies, in your practices, and in your actions.

And I'm actually very surprised that um more of you aren't on board with this.

It's shocking, actually.

So certainly I think we can all agree that it's very important.

And uh unfortunately I won't be able to support this tonight.

But what I can do, and what I can assure you of is that I do believe in it, and that I will uh work with you and others to make sure that we do this right.

And uh just because we're not doing it tonight, I promise you it doesn't mean we don't believe in it.

And uh the wheels of uh local government can turn slow sometimes, but uh I promise you uh to partner with you on this uh and move forward uh in a swift fashion and to make it meaningful and impactful and long-lasting.

So, but tonight for me is not the night to make that switch, but I I can tell we have buy-in some of our colleagues are at different levels with their DEI, and that's okay.

Uh it's a journey, and I wasn't always at the level I'm at now.

So Rudd.

Yeah, I won't space I won't support the amended motion.

The um uh from our discussions that we've been having with um um the strategic plan and advisory committees, um, and I think it's uh it's time to um update and revise the advisory committee policy.

So then I think uh it may be appropriate then to consider um verbiage that uh would support the uh the will and intent and certainly um um in the whole aspects of diversity and uh and so forth.

So it's um uh that's that's where I think we should leave it with staff and and the advisory uh policy revisions of that.

I think that's that is important in itself, and that should be that could be accomplished.

So I would not support the motion as amended.

Okay, we got a mover and we got a seconder.

Were there other comments?

Seeing no other comments, so the um the the motion was as it stands or all committees, counselor McKenzie, just for a refresher for everybody.

All committees.

So the only change in it was all committees.

It's uh been first and seconded.

Um further comments.

All those in favor of standing committee membership.

Uh all those opposed.

So motion does not pass, but we can revisit this, Councilor McKenzie, because I don't I don't think there's a person here who doesn't value diversity and inclusion.

And uh this may not sit right with you right now, but uh it's something that I think we all feel strongly about.

Uh other reports, minutes from the west shore Parks and Recreation Society Board of Directors and i think that was a separate motion nobody's speaking to that we get a motion to receive absolute can i have a seconder moved and seconded all those in favor receipt before before we can just have a question yeah thank you um sure uh on page eight there's the um it was an interesting discussion um with respect to the outdoor pickleball project and then the beach volleyball um seemed to have come up.

Um are the two groups using the same space uh great question.

Somebody's reading all the uh minutes.

I appreciate that.

Very astute uh yes we uh we do have uh uh beach volleyball courts next to the tennis courts down below next to the skate park we have done uh user group study uh we've looked at existing beach volleyball courts in the community there are alternatives for when we do replace the beach volleyball with pickleball if our grants come in and it's it's anticipated that our grants will come in uh so we we've looked into that John uh there is a small beach volleyball user group.

It's a very short season, obviously, right?

With the sand and the rain and and uh whatnot.

Maybe short season, but I'm sure tons of controversy.

Good luck with that.

Well, you'd be surprised actually compared to uh this counselor brown's listening to this.

I'm gonna say the curling word.

Uh but this is nothing compared to the curling um situation that we had years ago.

Uh the the users from the beach volleyball have been made aware.

And so far there's been limited feedback.

We're certainly aware to every you know sports uh group and the situation was not taken lightly.

No further comments.

Uh moved and seconded.

Uh all those in favor, receipt.

Any opposed?

Seeing none opposed, uh motion carries.

Yes.

And we got one for action.

One for information, sorry.

Receive correspondence.

Second.

Uh got a mover and a seconder to receive, and that's revise the active transportation plan and town's road designs.

Uh any discussion.

Seeing none, all those in favor?

Any opposed?

Seeing none opposed.

Motion carries.

And new business.

Um, there'll be this item.

And we should have dealt with an item, but it wasn't best practice when I discussed with the CAO to entertain um a motion following a petition and delegation, because then all motion uh petitions and delegations are going to expect a motion to receive, and it's not required.

So uh it may be a bit procedural, but I'd like to move if something comes up, and this could be a counselor bringing in new business to add it in this spot from something that they observed during a petition delegation or anywhere else in the meeting.

This is I think the avenue.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Sarah Scott, mayor's out to lunch.

Uh is that the right place to put it?

Uh the right place to put it.

Um that is a good question.

Yeah.

Right, to recommend the approval for the library?

Yeah, this was a good time to handle it.

At at CRD, what we do is within their procedural bylaws, uh it goes under new business and it's to be put on the next agenda.

However, if it's requiring same day consideration because it's two months apart or a month apart, then there has to be a vote for same day consideration first.

Then if a majority wins, then they vote on that resolution if somebody introduces it at the last minute, which I haven't seen happening here yet.

Not saying it will, uh just whatever.

So uh councillor Rogers, let's go with your item first and then go with the uh G VPL budget uh as an item B.

Uh yes, uh so this with respect to um um asking that the uh DCC review uh be included in the uh five year plan as a separate line budget item um and I'm really thinking this as a placeholder and we heard from staff about placeholders already and it being a good idea.

Uh I think the amenity cost charges bylaw is obviously important but clearly no substitute uh for the increase of um uh pressures that we'll see and and the forthcoming OCP review, capital infrastructure um uh issues that will arise from uh master plan reviews, uh coastal adaptation studies and and so forth.

So I don't know what year I'd leave it to staff to decide what year is a reasonable year to put that in.

But at this point um I would urge uh council and staff to include this as a placeholder so we don't forget it.

The reason for me saying that is um I know we do reviews uh in a in a kind of a statutory way uh but in the past we have gone a very long time, dragged it out, postponed it, kicked it down the street, and uh you know the end result is that we're not getting the funds that would uh be adequate to pay for uh those infrastructure costs that are and we've always heard from staff of our challenges already with uh what we've got in the ground.

So I urge um um and I I'd ask staff for a comment, please.

Uh just uh to amplify that a little bit.

Is this something that's gonna have to be reviewed with our bylaws that are coming up by June anyway?

Is that ACC and DCC?

Uh through the mayor, it's a component of it.

Um, not for the end of June.

Um, it's not part of the the deadline, um, but it is recommended to do as as part of all these other legislative changes.

So staff have no objection to it being put in as a placeholder for um uh in the five-year plan, uh the year they're choosing.

Uh, through the mayor, we can certainly add it in as a placeholder.

Uh for I believe last week um it was a recommendation to look at the deliberation as part of the 2025 2029 financial plan.

And at that time, staff will have a better idea of where we um they can place it, and it could be up to council to uh take a look at that and review.

I and I guess the reason also I want to end there because usually it's not in-house, we contract the service out, and so again, another budget item uh that we have to uh plan for.

So I would move that uh DCC review be a a separate line budget item in the five-year plan on a date with staff's choosing.

So that's your motion.

Do you have a seconder?

Councilor uh Madsen, is that a seconder or a comment?

Oh no, it was just to second the motion.

And then if you'd like a comment, I think it should be sooner than later.

Yeah, uh motivation.

I I've made my points.

Yeah, and then okay, so if I get to motivate it again, uh Councilor Rogers is correct.

You know, we're we could could be potentially losing a lot of money by not having an updated DCCs.

I think the last one took many years to to update.

And the the sooner we do it, the better.

It's uh probably one of those things we should, from my perspective, certainly more important than some of the other things we'll be doing, uh, which are basically just to help move the provincial agenda as opposed to uh uh addressing the needs of the taxpayers by increasing the DCC rates where appropriate.

So I certainly support John's motion.

I'll just make two more points.

Are you over motivating now, Councillor Rogers?

You gotta watch it.

Yeah.

First off, um, the I think the um uh the importance of the uh the regional water supply and the fact that they see a need to have a um um a DCC, it's uh a huge um imposition to expect that we're gonna have sufficient water uh and uh water of good quality.

So that's one aspect.

And uh a case in point lane the the either a roundabout or the traffic light was not a DCC identified um issue and so that was a failing of um uh because not a failing but we didn't expect to have all we just thought it would be a small little subdivision but not the density so uh we need to uh plan for worst case scenarios particularly if we have all these four and six uh unit complexes coming in and uh I think DCCs need to be applied to them as well.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Any other comments, questions?

Further motivations?

Okay, all those in our Councillor McKenzie.

So I assume then that this would need to be added to the budget and might impact the budget.

Uh through Mayor Tobias, um, with the help of uh Director Christensen here, I believe the DCC project would be funded by DCCs, if that makes sense.

So it would not be um it would not be through that that's appropriate use of using DCCs.

So it would be it would have an impact to the budget, but not to taxes, I think to Councilor McKenzie's question.

Okay.

Um no other questions?

I'll call it now.

Um, all those in favor of Councillor Rogers' motion.

Any opposed?

Seeing none opposed, motion carries.

Uh and then this uh item B, which doesn't show up on your agenda.

Uh yet uh councilor Levin, you want to speak to it, motivate the please.

I would like to make a motion, please.

That is that um council viewroyal council uh approve the 2024 budget for the Greater Victoria Public Library.

Second.

Uh seconded by Councillor Rogers.

Um and I just a general comment.

I I support it as well, but it's pretty obvious to me as uh as well.

When we if there are detailed questions that come up, and I'm not at all faulting anybody, but your representatives on each one of those committees.

I've been asked by several several counselors as well about what are decisions made, you know, at the CRD, particularly when they have a budget impact in it might not be out of a town budget, but CRD's taxation, which does influence our residents.

And there was a particular thing that came up this week that I wanted to tie in because it's relevant.

And we had um a presentation in front of us for $85 million loan for the CRD for them to um um create affordable housing.

Um I initially voted against it, and the reason why I voted against it wasn't because I wasn't opposed to the plan, but there was no plan attached with this $85 million.

Right?

So there wasn't a plan to say we're gonna purchase this spot of land to develop this type of housing on.

There was no plan at all.

So it was just for land assembly.

And so that went out for a vote.

Now, when it came down for the actual vote after it went out for public input, I voted for it because we voted for it.

I was representing council.

My own gut was saying, I don't want to vote this way.

I want to see a plan in front of us in order to vote on it.

So I just wanted to make that type of connection that I believe each one of us are fighting on uh just as we have through the budget, about giving taxpayers a break as much as they can.

And that goes with our duties with all the other committees we sit on.

And I thank you for it.

I just wanted to explain that as an example of some of the fight that we have to go on in order to balance that out.

So we got a mover, we got a seconder uh to uh receive to approve the GBPL uh budget.

Are there any comments?

Nada.

All those in favor?

Any opposed?

Seeing none opposed.

Motion carries for the G VPL budget.

Uh and then I think that brings us to question period.

Anybody with a question for council?

You can't you can't have a question right now.

Um Carl, anybody on the phone?

Uh Mayor Tobias, we've had no callers this evening.

Quiet, budget time done.

Motions and notices of motion.

Over to you, Councillor Rogers.

Thank you.

And I don't think we have time to go into the lengthy debates of the plan that we just received.

When we received it, I don't think we were approving the projects, the $11 million worth of projects.

And we did not consider the $18 million of sidewalks that are going to be necessary, nor did we consider the provincial bills and those impacts on the community.

Nor did we consider the and and we've made decisions beyond active transportation what was recommended there by supporting the sidewalk on on Atkins Road.

And we also, contrary to the active transportation plan, are not removing the bollards on regional trails in in our community.

So there's lots of things about this plan that we only received that we need to be having a really in-depth look.

We need to have a workshop.

We need to get our feet on the ground and look at these these proposals.

Ministry highways, I'll bet you will not approve the suggestions that by were made by the contractors for the Helmican Overpass.

They won't approve that.

And the hard part, which in the report itself says that it's very challenging and unlikely to succeed.

And that's the portion rate by the Highland Games.

You know, to carry that on is impossible.

The letter from VRC and heard from uh PRUAC their concerns about uh multi-use paths, combining cyclists and pedestrians, uh, with no division, um, even uh bi directional bike lanes.

And the success of the ENN trail is on the backs of pedestrians, I would say.

And the Galloping Goose, the the you know, those those that had maybe scorned the points that I'd made, uh, were also opposed to the CRD's um putting pedestrians laying on the Galloping Deuce, those six kilometers.

And this council has uh not only supported that uh for the safety and and comfort, but also urged the CRD to continue it to Helmaken Road.

Um, you know, we have they may not be such big tickets, they may not be so um uh grandiose in their plans, but we also have important things in this town that we need to do, like a bike lane on Erskine, like a bike lane on uh Burnett.

And and um so the the plan that's before us, I really like the baseline report.

It's astonishing, and I'm really thankful for that portion.

But to have these these plans that that suggest that we should have bi-directional bike lanes, uh multi-use paths, and frankly, I'm also concerned about the cost implications to our taxpayers with the the concrete barriers.

Are we going to put those on Helmogan Road?

This road here, we should, but we'd have to take trees out.

So we can't put it on the island highway because we'd have to take the meridian out.

So the um, you know, just to put it hocus pocus in different places may seem like a good idea, but it's inconsistent, and anything that's an inconsistent is a potential danger and potential liable situation for the town.

So I I don't think.

Yep.

And staff knowing knowing what to do with it, right?

So we we need to roll this up.

I think your concern is with the active transportation plan that I believe the council is only received.

We didn't action it, we didn't adopt it.

So is your concern pulling projects out of the active transportation plan that council has only received and not approved?

True.

And so I yes, I so maybe it's the motion is that the active transportation plan uh should be considered for information, but we should not push forward on those very expensive projects, 11 million dollars worth of projects, and just see them suddenly uh appear on our on our budget uh lines um without a thorough discussion, a thorough analysis of uh and the merits um you know for for all modes of transportation, not just cyclists.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I'm gonna uh have Ivan speak to this person.

Thank you, Maryor Tobias.

Uh the motion on the floor actually doesn't differ at all from the um previous council's resolution to uh motion to receive the report.

In fact, the one I'm just looking at the motion right here that actually many of these elements are incorporated into the Active Transportation Network Plan, allowing council to digest and look at options.

Each of the main priorities has options aside to it.

The ones that are have photos on it seems to be the ones that it is assumed to be the option.

However, to the contrary, the purpose of the Active Transformation Network Plan as received by Council is to allow them the possibility to change the design elements and to move projects around to where they see fit as a priority.

So my my question, Ivan direct is Councillor Rogers, is obviously has a detailed concern uh about some of this, as does counselor massen which uh i'll go to in a second um but how do we alleviate that we paid money for a study that we were still challenged with adopting because of some of the implications for it so we just received it for information so how how can council be reasonably assured that the project we're approving isn't gonna like look like the thing we don't like in the active transportation plan thank you Mary Tobias and it's a good question I'll give you an example so should council wish to adopt the financial plan as it stands right now, just hypothetically speaking, there are two projects there.

One's the Admiral's road project, and the other one is the um Helmkin Road intersection.

I think it goes from Waukes to Burnside Road.

At this time, as part of the concept design, uh staff has uh in its hands two options.

One of them is an option that is ambitious in its sense of a multi-use path.

And the other option is one that uh that um takes into account discussions that council have had during the Access Transportation Network plan deliberations.

So, not a multi-use path, something more conventional like buffer bike lanes, it does have that.

So, should the we move forward with those projects, the first thing the staff would do would be to present these concepts up to council so that council can provide a decision on what option to pursue, and then staff would move forward with that.

Again, that's just an example of how staff would uh work with council as uh promised through the active transition network plan being received for information.

Excellent.

Thank you, Ivan.

Go to Councillor Mattson next.

Yeah, I I guess I'm a little bit confused.

Maybe it's because it's laid out here, but notice the motion.

We seem to be having a lot of discussion in terms of something that's basically just updating us on something to come in the future, or or we already had this, because yeah, I think the the concern was that there would be uh movement ahead on the active transportation plan that we just received with plans with the new budget.

I'm I'm not trying to speak for councilor rogers here uh but i think that that was the concern councilor matzon uh that we're so i think with any so even if we as approve the active transportation plan um still each of the projects is gonna have to come back to us as ivan mentioned with options so that we can then make a decision where just the fact that we are we're accepting a plan doesn't mean we're gonna approve everything that's in it with without further discussion so I'm not sure what uh again.

So is this going to come back to us uh like the notice to motion?

Does that mean next week we'll actually have uh an agenda item on it or or was this just to advise us that we're going to be talking about it in the future?

So I'm still a little confused in terms of notice of motion as opposed to all the debate debating a notice.

Thank you, Councilor Mattson.

I'll over to you, Councillor Rogers.

Yes, uh uh Councilor Matson, I agree.

I think it should come back to us, but I think that we also um really need to have a close look of what's in and what's out.

Um there there are substantial things that uh, for example, um chicanes are aren't there as an active transportation component and sidewalks or you know, we've we've got an enormous amount of sidewalks that I I think are gonna be required because of the uh provincial and uh the new bills, housing bills.

So we're missing a lot.

So much has happened since this uh plan came before us, and unfortunately, I don't think we really had a chance to hear from all modes of transportation the transit users the walkers uh the um you know disabled i i think um you know we uh we owe it to have a a careful look do not do not approve this plan no because it's predicated on an eleven million dollar budget that we will immediately work on with short term projects i strongly oppose the approval of this plan at this stage thank you.

That's your notice of motion.

I think that clarified for Councillor Mattson.

What did you want to see come out of this?

Is there a specific motion, Councilor Rogers?

Yeah, I I would um move that it it go to the committee of the whole so that uh we have an opportunity to look and have a detailed uh assessment of what those implications are.

What is a multi-use path on six-mile road look like?

You need to have a look at this.

You cannot approve it on the code.

The details we're just we're just deferring to council of the whole right now.

That's what you'd like to do.

Right, that's so you would like to um bring up the active transportation plan and town's road designs at a committee of the whole.

Please.

Okay.

So that's the motion.

Do you have a second?

I'll second for discussion.

Seconded.

And you've motivated enough, Council Quech.

Certainly, yeah.

I mean, uh yeah, I've served as chair of the transportation committee.

It's a it's a big portfolio.

Um, I would I would be comfortable if if staff can produce a high level overview of some of these projects.

I don't expect to know every, you know, every uh inch of pavement, but uh it's very reasonable with projects this big.

Certainly, we're talking about millions of dollars.

Uh so if um I mean I guess I'd be interested in hearing if this is something that's even reasonable for staff.

I mean, it seems reasonable to me, but it could be a little extra work.

I'm not sure.

Two points for staff.

One is it is it a reasonable amount of work for you to tackle.

Uh and we're not necessarily expecting at the next council a whole, as long as there is a freeze on any projects until we we have a greater discussion about it, Ivan.

Thank you, Mayor Tobias.

I think it would depend on what council considers uh as needing to be changed.

So is it just small elements of it where it's um shifting projects and shifting design elements?

Because if that's the case, it's already incidental to the original act of transportation network plan and what the staff report has stated.

However, if it's a whole rewrite, then that would be a much more significant endeavor.

Thank you, Ivan.

Uh councilman.

Yes, I'm I don't feel that this would be a very effective use of staff's time.

Uh, firstly, uh, as we've heard, this report is very high level.

It just to identify gaps and needs, which it did, and each of those projects are going to come to us at budget time.

We say whether we're going to fund them or not.

So I don't believe we need another um time to review those.

I'll also say that we paid an expert who performed a technical analysis.

They came with a lens of all ages and abilities.

They reviewed the plans of all the surrounding municipalities, the BC Active Transportation Design Guides, MOTI South Island Transportation Strategy, and the CRD's uh Regional Transportation Plan.

So they are very well informed, and they also conducted engagement with a wide variety of people, two online surveys, two outdoor idea fairs, stakeholder interviews, bike shops, and a public open house.

So we do need to acknowledge the validity and the expertise and comprehensive comprehensiveness of the report.

And you know, we need to make evidence-based decisions.

We need to listen to uh the experts and these reports.

Thank you, Councillor McKenzie, Councillor Lemon.

Um Yeah, I'm I know I'm late to the party here.

Um, but I I concur with much of what Councillor McKenzie says.

I I think we need to be cautious and aware that we're not we're not engineers.

And for it for us to be prescriptive um is way outside our our area of expertise.

And uh as as as she pointed out, those for whom it is within their area of expertise are, you know, uh have given the report, and those are and and perhaps if there are questions should be in their bailiwick, not ours.

Thank you, Councilor Lemon.

So we got a motion on the floor right now, and this is to uh refer this to a council of the whole for the bidirectional uh bike lanes, uh multi-use pass and uh concrete cycling barriers.

We've got a mover and a seconder.

All those in favor of referring it to a council of the whole.

All those opposed.

So we've got uh a majority opposed were councilor Matson, Councillor McKenzie, and Councillor Lemon.

Uh the remainder supported, so motion passed to um to show up at a council of the whole agenda in the coming days.

So we got to do something outstanding from our online um agenda, Sarah.

We've got a move to just terminate this meeting, correct, and then go into the sp budget meeting, and then we'll do what we need to do.

Okay.

Uh so can I get a motion to terminate?

Move termination.

Move termination, councillor Lemon, second by counselor Rogers.

All those in favor.

Any opposed?

None opposed.

Motion carries.