Council Meeting

Good evening to the council meeting for March 7th, 2023.

The council meeting is called to order.

We recognize the Quangwan speaking people known today as the Esquimalt Nation and the Songheese Nation, and that their historic connections to these lands continue to this day.

This evening we'll hear from the public who telephone in during the public participation and question portions of the agenda.

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Can I get an approval of the agenda, including the petitions and delegations uh sheet?

Second.

Uh moved by Councillor Mattson, uh seconded by Councillor Lemon.

All in favor.

Then opposed.

Um and minutes in receipt of adoption of minutes.

The minutes there are from February 21st, 2023.

Can I get a motion to uh receive and adopt um the council meeting minutes?

Councillor Brown, can I have a second her?

Councillor Matson, all in favor?

Oh, I I just had a small change, a very minor change just in the mayor's report.

Um, and councilor Rogers might want to correct it, but it uh I think instead of participating in the weed polling, uh, Councilor Rogers had a an engagement session with walk-on uh Victoria.

Yes, it was just an error, I think, in in the report.

That's an ad, correct?

Yeah, thanks for catching.

Happy with that amendment to approve and adopt.

All in favor?

Any opposed?

None opposed.

Motion carries and now to a mayor's report.

Uh so it's been a busy few weeks for council since our February meeting.

There was significant budget deliberations and strategic planning.

I've had the pleasure of meeting with other West Shore mayors on the topics of future visioning uh for Callwood uh along the border with the View Royal uh along Old Island Highway, and as well as the requirements for a new police station for our RCMP.

The budget planning has been significant as council has gone through costs line by line to ensure we are saving for the future while managing the projects and levels of service you've come to expect.

As we emerge from lockdown and confront rising costs in labor and services, it is clear that an increase in tax is required, and our estimate is that it will be a bit lower than our most of our municipal neighbors, but as fair as we could make it.

Also announced was the contributions from the province from the growing community fund of uh over $4.6 million dollars.

This is going to be used for the necessary infrastructure to make our neighborhoods safer and more connected.

We've also had a significant recovery in the contributions from the casino.

As everybody is aware, it was shut down during lockdown and it's beginning to recover and generate the revenues we've come to expect.

I want to assure her that council had inflation and other pressures we are all feeling in mind when we planned our budget.

Just a reminder that March is multiple melanoma month, where our minds are turned to those suffering and their families, and on the 21st of March is World Down Syndrome Day.

And I would encourage you to support those with Down syndrome and their families.

The next few weeks will bring discussions around municipal data and growth hosted by Callwood for the West Shore mayors, as well as everyone there feeling challenges supporting growing populations with the associated services of fire, police, and other services essential to growing communities.

It also brings an opportunity to discuss what the town can do to assist in the retention and improvement of primary care.

With the series, I'll be having a series of meetings with Island Health representatives that should come to council as a presentation of probably the council of the whole and uh in uh future months, um, just looking at ways the municipality can uh can support uh some of the work that they're trying to evolve in primary care to serve our our citizens.

And I've asked for a comprehensive review of kind of the status of View Royal primary care and those doctors that may be retiring uh and any contingency plans that we might have.

Um that being said, I think we can move quickly to petitions and delegations, and I'd like to invite the greater Victoria Public Library, um, the Andrew and Maureen to provide uh a presentation that we requested, and thank you for taking time out of your evenings to uh come and present to us this evening.

Thank you so much, Mayor Tobias, uh, good evening.

Uh Mayor, members of council, members of staff.

My name is Andrew Appleton, and it's my uh great honor and privilege to serve as the chair of the Greater Victoria Public Library Board.

Uh I'm also your colleague, a council representative for the District of Oak Bay.

Uh with me to present this evening is our CAO, Maureen Sawa.

Uh normally we would also have our Director of Finance and Facilities, uh Paul McKinnon with us.

He's been taken ill, so wasn't able to attend tonight, but um, we can do our best on his behalf.

Um I'd just like to recognize uh councillor Jerry Lemmon, who's your uh with the town's representative on the G VPL board.

Um, served with her for some years and appreciate her contribution.

Also recognizing Councillor Rogers, who is uh previous representative of the town on the board and uh worked with him for a number of years as well, and also Councillor Mattson, I understand, served on the G VPL board uh a number of years ago, and appreciate that that contribution.

So a significant contribution by the town over the years to the G VPL board.

Thank you so much.

Um the contribution of your municipal representative to the G VPL board is significant uh and important.

Uh the G VPL is engaged in very important work, value their contribution greatly.

It's a very action-oriented board uh making important governance decisions, so we really value uh the town's representation there.

Uh I just want to just point out that public libraries are very important.

They're a place where every citizen belongs.

The GVPL is committed to working with our municipal partners so that together we can build communities by providing citizens with equitable access to information, services, and resources to grow and learn.

You have received our budget package.

You can be assured that the board and the staff have worked hard to present a budget to you that's realistic and resourceful.

And just on behalf of the board and staff and the communities that we serve, I'd just like to express my sincere thanks to you for your ongoing support of the library.

We're proud of the work that we do and appreciate your recognition that libraries do in fact change lives.

So I'll turn things over to Maureen for the remainder of the presentation, and Maureen and I will look forward to responding to any questions that you have.

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Andrew, and Mr.

Mayor, Council, and staff.

It's just a real pleasure to be here.

We haven't been at View Royal for a while, and so thank you very much for giving us this opportunity to talk about GVPL.

So I have a number of slides, and I'll try and go through them quickly.

So I'm going to ask our helpers back here to go to the next slide, please.

Because I don't have a clicker.

Okay, thank you.

We'd like to begin our presentations with just a reminder that Greater Victoria Public Library is a shared service model, and what you can see here is basically a map of the South Island, and it just kind of reflects the 10 municipalities that we serve.

We have 12 branch locations within the 10 municipalities, and what's really wonderful about this service is that individually none of our member municipalities would be able to afford the level of library service they have access to, but um you know it's basically stronger together, and what we like to say the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

So the next slide, please, um, is just uh an illustration of some of the um community hub cultural experiences that we've been able to host at our various locations.

Um, I think you all know that public libraries make a strong social contribution and we do work with a lot of partners.

We have over a hundred partners local and provincial and national.

So this is just an example of the kind of exhibits that we've been able to present lately.

Next slide please and the next picture is just one of my favorite as a very happy child.

This was taken the day we reopened after COVID and this little guy was just literally jumping up and down.

But he's also reflective of how we serve young people.

One of our most successful and popular community programs is the annual BC Summer Reading Club.

Last year, over 8,300 320 children from across the system participated in this program.

And that really is very, very important for early years literacy.

As you know, there is that kind of summer slippage that can occur with kids who maybe aren't reading as much as they are during school.

But when you have a reading program like the Summer Reading Club, this is a great way to kind of encourage children through fun activities to keep keep their reading skills up.

Next slide, please.

The other thing that I thought you'd be interested in is we we have, although we haven't tabulated all of our 2022 numbers, one thing that is really um hitting us is our um the usage of our digital resources.

So just for those of you who are familiar, you might like to see that the top five of 2022 were overdrive, press reader, canopy, hoopla, linkedin learning, and more and more I'm I'm finding that people, even though they've returned to the printed book, the convenience and the ease of use for digital resources in Greater Victoria is just moving ahead quite a bit.

The other thing that's very popular that we offer digitally is uh something called Mangle Languages, and interesting to see the top five languages that people are learning.

Locally Spanish, French, Italian, German, and Japanese.

And also of interest is our LinkedIn learning program.

This is something that we talked a lot about with the South Island Prosperity Partnership in terms of economic recovery.

What can the library do to provide our users with the opportunity to do more self-directed learning?

Because as a result of COVID, a lot of courses just weren't available.

A lot of the traditional ways that people could do community learning kind of disappeared.

So our usage of online learning tools was extreme.

The next couple of slides, I'll just go through quick.

This was a you know just an illustration of some of the involvement we've had as the Closely with our provincial partners, and so many announcements of funding and such things can tend to be hosted by Greater Victoria Public Library.

These pictures are just examples of some of the newer branches.

As you know, we opened a new branch in the Esquimalt last year as part of the Esquamalt Town Hall project or Town Square project, and that's been incredibly popular.

Councillor Appleton and I presented our budget presentation last night to Esquamalt Council, and we had just a lot of comment about how it's the library has really contributed to the vibrancy of the square.

You can probably recognize the WandaFuca branch in Calwood.

And then we have just some shots of some of the things that we've learned since COVID, and we've really invested a lot in flexible furnishings.

One of your questions that came up before we started the presentation, well, if people are using digital resources so much, why do we need library spaces?

And I have to tell you, we need library spaces more than ever.

People want to come to a community living room, a place that they can call their own, particularly with the density that's occurring in some areas of Greater Victoria.

And you know, student populations who are sometimes living five people to a residence, they need a place to kind of come and study.

So the next slide, I just want to remind you that we do have a strategic bridge plan, and we're halfway through the strategic bridge plan.

That was developed to establish kind of a literally a bridge from COVID to the future.

And Councillor Appleton and Councillor Lemon were involved in the strategic planning process and it was a really good move of the board to recognize that we had a lot of recovery to do after COVID, a lot of infrastructure and you know systems to kind of get back in place.

So this plan really has allowed us to work on the four I key priorities that were identified by the board and that's in the next slide.

The first one is digital literacy and access, because of course, access to technology and the ability to operate that technology confidently impacts the well-being of our communities.

The next slide focuses on our other priority, one of our the second one, sorry, focused community building.

And as I mentioned, public libraries are important inclusive spaces created equally for everyone in the community.

And it's very, very important for us to provide space for vulnerable populations of all of all natures.

I have a quote from a library patron who said it this way I never ever encountered a librarian who said something like, Why would you want to do that?

He said, The library is a space of permissions where you have the freedom to pursue what you want.

And that is actually a quote from a wonderful book called Palaces for the People by Eric Kleinenberg, that our board has really embraced as kind of a vision statement.

The next slide, making a difference, showing our impact.

We're really proud of the work that our staff has done in terms of identifying new ways of serving the community.

This is a picture of our coordinator of community of sorry, customer service, who just recently presented a session at the Ontario Library Association conference in Toronto on improving customer service and how to train staff effectively.

So we got a lot of kudos for that.

And then finally, the fourth priority for the board is making space for everyone to feel safe, respected, and valued.

And I don't think I have to kind of elaborate what that means.

So moving on to the next slide, our 2023 budget, as Councillor Appleton said, you've all received our budget presentation, and you know that approximately 90% of the G VPL operating budget is funded by our 10 municipal partners.

As has been alluded, we're all facing pressures in terms of inflation and COVID recovery.

So we've uh we've done our best, and I we can talk to you a little bit more specifically about the budget, but we feel that it does allow us to maintain services and also to regroup on some other services.

So in the next slide, you'll see just the summary of the 2023 budget request that again is in your packages.

You will see that we are requesting an overall municipal contribution increase of 5.95%.

This, as I mentioned, supports the maintenance of existing service levels and the reinstatement of services that are accessible and sustainable.

Budget drivers did include salaries and benefits, building occupation costs, and other factors as described in the budget notes.

I think that as our board chair has said, we do have a very conscientious finance committee made up of the number of our counselor members, and certainly that budget went through a lot of scrutiny before it was approved by the board.

So in the next slide, we'll see specifics about the Town of View Royal 2023 contribution.

So it gives you a comparison from 2022 to 2023.

So 2023's requisition, your contribution does mean a 7% increase over last year, and that results in a cost per capita increase of $3.24.

The next slide is just we're getting to the end.

So just again a reminder that public libraries are trusted and valued community assets.

And as you can see, all ages are still reading a lot.

And I think that we are really just so pleased to continue to develop our physical spaces to make them more comfortable for everyone.

And then the last concluding slide is just the an image from our this is from our strategic bridge plan, and we're very fond of this picture.

As you can see, a picture does does tell a thousand words.

And that is what we feel about public libraries that we really do provide everyone with the opportunity to change.

So that's our presentation, and certainly we'd happy to answer any questions that you might have.

Thank you.

Firstly, uh thanks very much, Maureen and Andrew.

I think that was really comprehensive.

Uh does counsel have any questions?

Counselor McKenzie.

Yes, thank you for the presentation.

Um, in the context of increasing taxes and municipalities having to uh make difficult decisions, um, are you able to explain what the funding arrangement is if one of the municipalities doesn't uh agree to the full amount of their contribution?

Yeah.

According to the the library operating agreement, um there is um is kind of a basically once 50% plus one over 50% of the budget total is approved by member municipalities, it's it's approved.

So yep.

And so um if one municipality doesn't pay their full contribution, um would the other would that cost be shared amongst the other municipalities?

Um the agreement is that that the budget is kind of accepted once the majority um approves it.

That's never happened.

Yeah, yeah.

I I mean that's never it's never happened that it wasn't approved.

Yeah, great.

Okay.

Thank you.

Okay.

Um and just so our representation is through Councilor Lemon on that.

So if we had a challenge or a question, then it'll be over to Councilor Lemon to provide some feedback that she could bring back to the board.

Um Counselor Rogers.

Yes, thank you.

Uh thanks for coming tonight.

The um I noticed that the um building occupancy cost had gone up twelve point six percent.

Sorry, so I didn't hear what you said, the what?

The building occupancy costs twelve percent.

And I don't know what that is uh in comparison to previous years.

Um so the it you know that certainly stood out to me.

Um and I I wonder um with the digital opportunities that we have, are those digital you know availabilities, uh do those come free?

You know, when we sign up to oh no, no, our digital subscriptions are quite costly.

Okay.

Yeah, and and there are different licensing agreements.

Um so sometimes um we pay according to usage, other times there's a flat rate, but digital resources unfortunately are are very costly.

Yeah.

So is the and the that this is what I'm trying to drill down to is um where are those digital resources?

Are they under that building occupancy?

Um, no.

Building occupancy specifically refers to the actual costs of maintaining our buildings, so things like maintenance contracts, security, garbage, utilities, and as we know, all of these costs are going up quite dramatically.

So from a uh digital, you know, the um the systems that we have and and the the apps, uh what categories have that would come under supplies and services or uh library materials.

Okay.

And you can see under library materials um there has been a significant increase.

Um e-resources and digital assets uh went up um $265,000.

Um yeah, the it is increasing quite a bit, and some of the licensing agreements are are becoming quite um challenging.

Yeah.

I note also that uh you are returning back to Sunday's openings.

We're gradually reintroducing Sundays, so we are now open on Sundays at the Central Branch at the WandaFuca branch.

And um we will be um reinstating at the Oak Bay branch where in their pop-up location.

As you know, we we had a bit of an incident with the face, so we have an uh pop up and then and then we are looking towards reinstating um Sundays at all locations.

We are definitely challenged by recruitment uh right now as as a lot of our um fellow organizations are dealing with.

Yeah.

And for the resource, um, I'm always um can you can you fill me in on um our ability to access the University of Victoria Library as residents?

There there certainly is a community card available, so that that is handled through the University of Victoria.

So that they will acknowledge that and let people use through that card.

We can take books out from the library there.

That's my understanding.

I know there is a community card.

I haven't I haven't talked to them lately, but there it is, yeah.

Good.

Um my last point is uh an observation.

I see that in in the pictures you have lots of images of political people, um uh the premier and and so forth.

I'm wondering how is the province doing in terms of increasing its contributions to uh libraries?

Well, we had a terrific announcement last week with the budget.

Um so uh we uh have succeeded, and I when I say we, I mean the BC Library Community and British Columbia, and that's represented by library trustees, library directors, um, the BCLA Associate Library Association and the BC Libraries Cooperative.

Um, so they have out of the surplus funding um uh awarded libraries $45 million and additional funds over the next three years.

How that is going to be dispersed, I don't yet know, but um that was really good news.

Yeah, so they are listening, and we have made that point both individually.

I know councils have made that point.

Librarians, trustees, and um the uh kind of the four library partners as they're known.

Um the four associations have have been very much um actively advocating for this.

Yeah.

Council Love.

I don't have a question, but I I do want to say how wonderful it is to have you here in our house.

And I I think it's it's really clear.

For me it was my first weeks, months on the board, just how expansive the role of the library is in the community and how it's so so much more than books.

And to my colleagues, Maureen has agreed to meet with with me and Christine Jackman from the meeting centered and just see if there's there's ways that we can, you know, somehow it it enhance their services and see what we can do.

So thanks for coming.

Thanks.

Yeah, so I just thank you very much for your presentation.

Any other comments?

Council Matson.

I I can't help myself, but given that $45 million is coming to the libraries, uh, is that gonna have any way sort of reduce our contribution either this year and the next couple of years?

I don't think it'll will have any impact this year, but certainly um that was something that we have really strongly urged the provinces to recognize that that their funding has been flat since um 2009.

I think it's been flat for the past over 10 years, like since I've been here, right?

So um I I I I'm hopeful that that is a kind of a signal that they're, you know, like I know they're dealing with surplus and that's a three-year limit, but hopefully it will signal an increase.

All right.

Yes.

And then of course that would impact our overall budgeting.

Yeah.

Uh what could we do uh I I guess as a as a council to promote services?

I I think everybody is is watching pennies at this point.

For me, it's not just pennies, but how how do we get the message out?

Like uh how do can I can I apply for a library card entirely online?

Do I need to visit?

Yes, sir.

So I I I don't have to go down, I can just get it in the mail or get it digitally.

Yeah, no, and I have to, on behalf of not me personally, but my staff, um, we were one of the few libraries um when COVID hit that we already had online registration available, which was really, really good because so many people suddenly were, you know, sheltering in place didn't go out.

Um, and the fact that they could uh um if they didn't think of the library already, that they could sign up for um uh online services.

And then what we were able to do um was staff provided a lot of coaching um by phone um for individuals who maybe weren't still comfortable with using those services, and that's something that we're continuing to do.

Yeah.

Does that mean you don't have a library card?

I did have one.

Uh Counselor Mattson many years ago.

I'm not sure exactly where it is, but I need to to apply for a digital ones.

Well, we'll um we'll maybe um counselor Lemon and I can arrange to get you one.

Yeah.

Thank you and I I'll look forward to promoting uh the Greater Victoria uh library when we come up with our newsletters and whatnot so we're ensure that our folks are thank you and I would say we we have um just tired uh a a a new director who's who's that is going to be her focus is is spreading the word and working with the board who will then work with council so we we'd really like any ideas you have I know councilor lemon already has a few.

Yeah.

Thanks again on behalf of council for coming out tonight and uh taking your valuable time.

I realize you're doing uh a whirlwind tour of lots of municipalities over the next couple of weeks, probably with the same questions.

So thank you for coming to us tonight.

Thank you very much.

And I'd like our board chair maybe just to thank.

Yeah.

Just on I will just extend my thanks again on behalf of the G VPL board for the invitation.

As mentioned, not been out to View Royal for a couple for some time.

And uh it's a very exciting time for the G VPL.

Um the bridging plan represents sort of moving on with all the lessons that we've learned from service delivery after COVID.

Uh, we're talking about you know, potentially new facilities, we're talking about new ways of doing business.

Um, and and I can assure you that the staff team that's that's taking care of that on our old collective behalf uh is just exceptional.

So I would expect to uh have some very uh interesting and and engaging uh material for you coming back through Councillor Lemon this upcoming year.

Uh stay tuned, it's gonna be a really, really great one.

Thank you very much.

And we'd love to come back next year.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And I think our next uh one up is uh by Jared Malvin from Pheasant Lane, a potential for density for housing cooperatives in View Royal.

Mayor Mayor Tobias?

Yes.

There is a resolution recommended in response to the presentation from the library.

Yeah, I would move staff's recommendation.

And that's uh the Greater Victoria 2023 budget and five-year fiscal plan, uh financial plan be approved.

Subject to favored in coming back next year from the 45 million.

Second.

All in favor?

Any opposed?

None opposed?

Motion carries.

Thank you.

Well, that was great.

Um so yeah, now I get to follow up this one.

Uh my name is Jared Melvin, and I live at Pheasant Meadows Housing Cooperative at uh 1322 Pheasant Lane.

Uh next, please.

So, some of you will remember me.

I was here a year or so ago and did a very similar uh presentation.

Some of these slides might look very similar indeed.

Um, but just really quickly, I want to give a quick introduction and kind of tie this in a little bit to some of the OCP conversations that we've been having in the community and an opportunity for council.

Um next.

At a high level co-ops, this is kind of we're a democratic institution.

These are seven cooperative principles that govern all cooperatives, including the gas station Mount Aguima Co-op.

These are kind of fundamental principles for co-op around participation, and it is very much so um as well for housing cooperatives.

Next.

So a little bit about us.

We're lit.

There's actually, I try not to jump ahead too much.

Um, but we are just up the road here, um, around by View Royal.

We're 40 units, we're built in 1985, and um we are genuine housing affordability living out in the flesh in your community, and there are four of us in uh View Royal.

Next.

Um, and so, yes, at a high level, I thought this would be a good opportunity to talk about the OCP.

I have been an active community participant, I've gone to as many of the presentations as I could have, or solicited feedback and given feedback in the various different forums that was offered out.

And so I thought at an opportunity to come here to council, I would do the same and plug it once again.

Next.

And then there is one literally right across the way there at Four Mile Pub.

And then there is ourselves.

And I assume there are other special purpose properties as well, CRD and other such properties in View Royal as well that I think should also be considered given consideration to kind of my petition or idea here.

Next so again we are essentially we're a public amenity.

I don't own anything with respect to the co-op.

I am a 140th owner of the cooperative but the cooperative itself owns the asset.

And so as the values appreciate I don't get rich if I ever choose to leave someone else gets the benefit of the mortgage that has been paid from people before.

But what it does give you is security of tenure and kind of immediate proximity to our schools, our ENN bike line, and all the other amenities immediately around, and the ability to live an affordable life right here in View Royal.

But one of the things that we do need are one bedrooms.

So cooperatives were imagined in a day and time when there was a housing act and we were kind of front and foremost as a part of one of the outcomes for CMHC, which no longer exists.

So most of the co-ops, all of the co-ops other than ones that have been kind of more recently created in the last five years, and there is a kind of a new push, were never made to grow old in.

They were never made for singles, they were made for families.

And so we have two three and four bedroom co-ops because that's all the federal government ever imagined would need to live there.

But as time passes, people can't move out, and now they're elderly and they're living in a larger three-bedroom unit, and there's multiple flights of stairs, and it's difficult.

And so there's an opportunity kind of at present to do something about it, hopefully, um, next.

So I guess a little bit of what I would love to see in the consideration around the OCP and some of council's deliberations in the future is an opportunity to look at properties such as this one and potentially take action before the government encourages action in a certain way.

And so if council is um w moving with the foresight to understand some of that, there is an opportunity for council to lead that so the province doesn't per se take away some of the powers that should permanently exist in this room.

So I'm thinking around some because of our proximity to the ENN and others, there's opportunities for us for council to ask properties like this to be environmentally aware.

And because we're a co-op to encourage moto car share, other things like that, if we were ever to be given density or to look at properties like this and say these are great properties to densify in the future, but these are the things that we'd like you to see.

We'd like to see greater income disdribution, and we want to make sure all the units are adaptable so that you can genuinely grow and you can get a wide spectrum of different abilities, physical abilities and limitations in them.

Um, and of the environmental sustainability is of course a big piece, and so.

And so my hope would be that if we were looked at as opportunities to grant density, that council would take the lead in some of these conversations and asks for us, because I think it would parlay well with the province when the province is looking to see what we're doing.

If you've already identified things and made um asks or requests on these sorts of properties.

Anyway, that's kind of the gist of what I wanted to throw out here in your deliberations while you're considering the OCP, would be properties like that, and I will end it because I see a hand up.

Counselor Manson.

Yeah, I I I understand what you're you're getting to with the OCP, but from my perspective, and I know we've talked before.

I mean, as opposed, no.

Yep, why don't you just bring a proposal forward to council?

Forget about trying to get so the specific OCP changes.

If you came to us with a proposal, you'd probably find that uh supportive.

So these are, and it's a great question.

Um, I'm a volunteer, and so we are 40 families.

And most people are quite pleased to live in a co-op.

But there's probably about zero effort willing to do any work to make it better or to improve it or to expand it.

And that's just a lot of people won the lottery.

They're great, they're glad to be there, and they want to ride out their time.

Which is fine.

I think that's a big aspect of human nature.

Um, I've been there for 10 years and have volunteered a considerable amount of my evenings and weekends, um, partly because I've worked in real estate for a long time and I have the wherewithal to do it.

Removing encumbrances or impediments to that and making it easier because these are properties that are prime, no one's going to sell them and redevelop them.

There's an opportunity for council to guide the conversation and make it easier for the people that are there without asking a group of volunteers to bring it forward.

That's the issue.

The issue would be finding the revenue and the capital to put forward to get an architect to render plans, to do the work, to come before council chambers to get a group of people to somehow band together to ask for density or for an opportunity.

But if council were to already take that step and have that foresight with these properties and to say with these ones, we'd like to see this, then it's easier for individuals like myself to not herd humans in a certain direction.

If it was owned by myself outright, it'd be dramatically easier.

Uh Jared, let's go to Councillor Lemon and then Counselor Rogers.

Thank you, Gerald.

Jared, is there a board in your co-op?

There is.

Yes, a volunteer board.

Right.

And so when you raise this at the board level, is it is it is it falling on deaf ears?

No, there's general consent.

I would say there's a majority.

Um, but we have elections every year, and you term out.

And so in time, I've brought this up many times over the years, and people really like the idea.

And then as they step off the board and someone else steps on, there's new vision, and people like to keep housing charges low and they like to just kind of exist.

And the prospect of doing additional work is usually terrifying when people are already busy as it is.

So, yeah, there is a board, and there's general right now, people like the idea and are currently working with funds from CMHC and doing investigations, looking at the rock, because we have a very large rock at the entrance to View Royal Park there, um, where we have a little building at the very top of that rock.

So they're looking at the stability of that and other kind of sustainability aspects.

But again, there's a lot of money and time that goes into those sorts of things, which need to get done in any event.

So so part part of the issue then is that like the people, the property is aging in place.

Yes, it is.

Okay.

Okay.

I I I don't know how I'm not real clear on our role.

Well, the powers, I I I I guess my ask is I went to many of these discussions.

I went to many of the city discussions and I pointed out the opportunity the city had.

And the OCP by and large came back exactly as it was and nothing changed.

And so it can stay that way, that's fine.

But I look at it as an opportunity.

There is a there are more than one of us.

There are four separate properties, and all of us are low rise, and there's an opportunity for greater density in the future.

Got it.

Okay.

Thank you.

Councilor Rogers.

Yes, thanks.

Thanks for coming in and giving the broad presentation.

Um it I wonder um trying to go back to the days when you you first started and and um Glantana and uh Cameo Co-op when they first started in across the street, and it seems like um it was a CMHC and because it was 1985, Vurial was not a municipality, it was CRD, right?

So what was the magical thing that where CRD had the uh the will, the power and the ability to negotiate and sort out uh these details with CMHC and other and that doesn't exist, who else next?

And but we still have CRD.

We still have the have the uh regional housing trust fund and uh and that entity.

And have you been approached or um any thoughts of how we could leverage uh that uh body to um move this um because we're all on the and of course with nonprofit organizations, it may not be your organization but some other nonprofit that's um willing to step in and and help with the expertise and and make these things achievable.

I I think that's a really good idea.

The um one of the things that comes to mind um quite typically everybody wants their pound of flesh.

So if you go to BC housing, you can get funding, but then you've got to fund it in a certain way with 30 percent at shelter, 40 percent at deep subsidy, and then 30 percent at market less 20.

And that's a fundamentally different shift for how the co-op is designed and built.

And so currently the structure is completely democratic where everybody owns and we base rents off of an economic rent model.

So it's not based off of any profiteering.

We set what we know we need to function, and then we just divide it backwards.

Here we give an estimate of what we're going to pay for taxes, and we say, okay, this is what it's going to be.

And our four bedrooms go for twelve hundred dollars a month.

And that's virtually unheard of in this market.

And we own our buildings outright, and we have a very healthy reserve fund and we pay for everything outright.

So we could, but then everybody else will take over and put their kind of processes in place.

So we have looked at BC housing and others.

Um usually people will want to just take the property themselves and then run it in their institution, and that's really something we don't want to do at all.

And I I guess uh if I may just carry on, one of the things that makes me nervous about when it's CRD doing it, they'll put in a building and and that's it.

The individuals living there pay no taxes, and I'm assuming you're paying taxes.

Yep.

Uh-huh.

That's a nice uh difference between uh what you you're offering and um and contributing to um uh goods and services.

Whereas with the CRD, uh, when someone moves in, there's no taxes for police, fire, and and so forth.

You know, that's borne by the rest of the community.

So it's um yeah, it's it it is a an interesting thing where we should have opportunities and some very creative thinking and coordination cooperation with the CRD and municipality in this uh forthcoming OCP.

I got uh uh a question.

Uh Jared, from your estimation, would there be the flexibility to build and then relocate the families within that, or like how would we you'd build incrementally?

So yeah, it would be like any other development.

If you ever you redevelop a property, you you would do like a phased approach and you'd want to phase it appropriately.

We've talked about it internally and thought, you know, if we could reimagine a future, you would do it in a partition and the people would either move out and we'd find them suitable places.

They'd pay their normal housing charge and the co-op and the pro forma would just pay the differential.

So they'd never be out of pocket.

And then when we were done we'd move them back and hopefully build enough that in whatever next phase we'd move them, those people would stay in the community.

Our ultimate desire would be to get something where you could kind of go through a life cycle, maybe come in as a single person, get married, have your family and then as you grow older go back down to a single unit again or a one room.

Yeah, but yeah, that would be kind of the way we would look at it.

Oh, and I'm out of time.

Yeah.

So I I guess the next step would be to you need some assistance, I guess getting a plan together, right?

That you could present to council, and then you need some assistance around perhaps a funding model for uh there are there are funders and CMHC is available and people will, you know, give money.

It's just rates are increasing, and that's okay.

That's a fact of life.

In the old way, we mortged directly from CMHC.

And so our last five-year term was at 1.15 locked with CMHC.

We didn't use the banks, but the those days no longer exists.

CMHC is completely out of that game.

So they will offer other terms.

I think their going rate is 4.5% right now, which is not bad.

Um it's not like it was, but that's okay.

So there's there is abilities and know-how within our community on how to do the financing and other things and to get access to that, and there are people that do that.

The world is shifting.

It's the impediment is kind of convincing the community and then going through all the different redevelopment steps and processes because we aren't a profit-driven organization.

Anyway, thank you for your time.

Thank you, Jared, for coming out.

This was very informative for me.

Just a question to staff: is there anything we could help out with as far as guidance for planning?

This is a unique situation.

It's obviously affordability for housing has been on our lips one way or another for the past bit.

Is there things that we could do or guidance that we could provide to help uh support um affordability in this context?

Yeah, uh through the mayor.

Thank you for your question.

And um, Jared, I'd be happy to, I'm sorry, I'm the director of development services.

Uh I think we met on uh Teams once at a CDAC meeting.

Yes, that's right.

Yeah.

Um yeah, I'd be happy to sit down and and and uh meet with you and and uh and talk about your concept and some of your ideas.

Um I'm I'm glad you're aware of CMHC's seed funding opportunities because I I do know that those are available right now um sort of help in that pre-development stage.

So there are you can apply for seed funding and to go through sort of that pre-development um uh hiring consultants and things like that to to to develop a plan.

Um and but um in terms of um yeah yeah I I would love to hear more about your I know you had a very source um short amount of time to talk about your ideas for for the co-op, but um I'd be happy to sit down with you and learn more and see where yeah what kind of support planning can provide and some of the guidance along those lines Councilor Rodgerson Yeah yeah I think the the key thing is that there's no really no difference that happened with in this OCP and the new and the latest OCP they were still basically the same and I don't see there's any impediments with this OCP to make uh uh progress and and bring about some development yeah I just want more FSR thanks again Jared for coming out and sharing this with us much appreciated I think that uh finishes our petitions and delegations and we're down to a public participation period.

Uh anybody in the room want to address council at all.

I'm seeing shakes.

Carl, is there anybody on the line?

Mayor Tobias, we have no callers at this time.

We even had guest speakers in, and we'll get no callers in.

We're gonna work on this.

Uh business arising from previous minutes, parks and signage, wayfinding update.

Uh I think it's Councillor Rogers.

Over to you.

Yes, thank you.

And and uh appreciate the getting the report from March the 10th.

Um and it was it was interesting, it raised a lot of questions, and I guess m this all came about from um the budget discussions, um uh projecting 35,000 for um uh five years, five parks, and uh those private parks have been identified.

What I um I guess I'm what I'm wondering about is what's going on.

Um, you know, when we look at the March 10th, we were it was suggesting that we would do Portage Park, and that would be a pilot, and then we would assess the pilot and then move on.

But since that time we've now shifted to View Royal Park, and there doesn't seem to be a pilot.

So one staff can update us on what's going on.

So the Portage Park is still the first uh project.

Um V Royal Park, the the project's going on there right now is Stormwater Magic Upgrades.

Um and I believe in uh it is scheduled currently for this year to also include the the dog park, but that's under council deliberations.

Um but like I said, uh Portage Park is still the the first park to have um the signs and once installed it'll still undergo a six-month pilot project or a six month um kind of a engagement basically to see how it goes, and then after that uh we'll go back to council to determine whether or not to continue that.

So I can understand.

Um we're good so we are doing Portage Park first, and um, because when I read um uh the um the the plan that we'd had uh strategic plan N14, uh talked about View Wall Park, then Portage Park, then you know, as so I was a little confused about um, you know, how the 35,000 for this fiscal year would be allocated.

And I guess part of my concern is what are we getting for the 35?

And does that lock us into a strategy that we're now going to be committed to this uh format and for all the parks in our town and and so forth?

Um through the mayor, um, I'd be happy to answer that question.

So um as part uh and I I believe there's the the the staff report was added to this agenda with a bit of a uh summary, a budget summary for the sign program for V Royal and Portage um park signage, and which is break down the proposed number of signs and and the cost of those signs and um and so for portage park signage the the the total amount at the time was around twenty seven thousand dollars and um i guess staff increased it to 35 000 just because there was sometimes there's just unexpected costs associated with any project so just increasing the amount to 35 um and again um the the program is to do a is to do a pilot in portage park and then go out to the community and get feedback and then see if it's an opportunity to implement into other parks as well.

So um, and and obviously if if if that is uh what council wishes to do.

But again, this is a pilot, it was a considered a pilot project at the time.

Sorry, Ron Councillor Matson.

Rather than debate this ad nauseum here, what what have we approved so far in terms of the budget?

So have we already approved this year's expenditure for for this year's project?

I don't think we have uh ban.

Yeah, thank you.

Um my understanding is that this particular item is in the parking lot, it's part of the the budget process.

So it ha um it hasn't been decided upon on yet.

Okay, so so I'm I'm just curious as to why we're discussing this now and not just once it gets to the parking lot.

Councilor Rogers.

Uh well first off, because um new members of council had not seen the March 20th um uh in uh 2000 sorry.

Um through the mayor, my apologies.

I'm sorry, no, this uh director of finance just cons confirmed that um that item was actually canceled.

Sorry, it's not in the parking lot.

The project was canceled.

So we don't need to talk about it.

Even more reason why are we talking about this?

Yeah, exactly.

We don't need to talk about it, it's canceled.

Councilor Rogers.

Okay, so let just let me be sure.

Um have we canceled the project um and so we are no longer doing any more signage because somehow I got the impression that we are there was an RFP that had gone out to do the signage of my or is that just for you all park and something separate?

Uh that is for the stormwater management upgrades.

So it's nothing to do with signs, and that's a tender.

All right.

So um so then just to be clear, then we're not um we have canceled the entire plan for part signage.

The horse isn't gonna get up and walk away, John.

I didn't know that and I'm happy to hear it.

Thank you.

So is Don So we've had no that was just business arising from previous minutes.

Um sorry, may I just ask just one question.

The actual missing sign though for View Royal Park is there is gonna be a replacement for that, yes.

Yes, there's gonna be a replacement.

Um our uh uh uh park supervisor is on it, but with with um other priorities uh getting in the way, he hasn't been able to put it in yet.

But uh he does have the wood for it and is gonna I'll make sure that it gets done.

Thank you.

I've got to ask what happened to the sign.

It broke.

Okay, okay, fair.

Um I think we are down to some staff reports now.

Uh contract renewal for fire dispatch services staff.

I'll move staff recommendation.

Second.

All in favor question yep sorry sorry thank you so in the in the actual contracts and the last page of the contract um there were um additional services so are any of those additional services uh matters that we're able to take advantage of as part of this contract thank you counselor yes the list of additional services is um some of the stuff we already enjoy through Surrey that has been um how would I say gifted to us or as part of our original uh signing on of the contract.

Uh the other list, it if we want to expand our services, they have a price list.

But most of the service we receive from Surrey on that list, uh, we receive pro bono or or at cost.

So it's a again, it's just it's another value added to the contract.

And uh, Chief, just um contrasting this service with the previous service, how would you rate this one?

Um we're very pleased with the service uh from Surrey.

We've had no uh grievances or complaints towards the provider in the five years or the four and a half four and a half years.

Um it's notable that they um are heavily staffed and heavily resourced.

Uh so there is no uh issues with missed or dropped 911 calls like we've been reading in the news.

Uh our calls are processed as per the NFPA guidelines, and I I have no concerns in in renewing the contract with Surrey.

Thanks for your recommendation.

Any other comments, questions, thoughts?

No.

Uh no, we had our hands up.

We don't never finish up.

Uh so all in favor because uh councillor Rogers, all in favor.

Any opposed?

Councillor Batson, did you have your hand up opposed or in favor?

Okay.

Uh so that was uh unanimous that the town of Uroyal renew extend dispatch service agreement with the city of Surrey for a period of five years, and that the town signatories be authorized to execute the necessary related documents, community the whole resolutions.

And I think we've got uh the first one is just a a motion to receive, but the um bits of that uh kind of follow, and this is all of course discussed uh a, b, and c second council lemon.

Thank you.

I'd like to pull one out uh just for a question to staff.

And which one is that?

Uh that is the uh the police, the RCMP one.

Where is that?

Um the uh believe it's C, the second.

So uh we can move A and B.

Yep, that's C.

Happy with that?

Sure.

Yeah.

Uh all in favor of moving uh items A and B.

You're too quick.

Uh any opposed?

Motion carries, so we've uh moved items A and B.

And Councillor Lemon, your question for uh the police station.

Yeah, this um this is well to staff, and we don't we don't have the director of finance on the line, do we?

We do.

Oh, we do?

Okay, and and Dawn, if you can hear me out there.

There she is.

I've I've had a question from from a resident about asking why we are um why the hundred thousand for the police allocation for the building is coming out of operating as opposed to out of capital out of capital and and I would like it like to ex explain that um knowledgeably.

Certainly I'll do the best I can.

So the intention uh is if I understand it correctly, and I and I think I'm pretty close, is that we will be borrowing the funds to build the expansion.

So that's the capital expenditure, is the building.

And since we don't happen to have $12.8 million in our pocket, we're gonna have to borrow for it.

So the $100,000 contributing to reserve in advance will help offset the debt service costs, the principal and interest payments that will become due right after we the the borrowing is initiated, and that is an operating cost.

I'm sure glad I asked you.

Thank you.

So, in short, it's a pay it now or pay it later, it's still coming out of operation.

So I think was was the point.

I'll move C then with that.

All in favor?

Sorry, let me ask um the and it it might not be for this part of uh the project, the RCMP expansion, but do we know whether we could possibly use part of the growing communities grant towards this?

In in a word, we don't know yet because we haven't seen kind of all of the details for it.

Um and I I guess I can provide this much information now.

So the the mayors have been meeting, or that we had our first meeting about it.

This $1.2 million dollars is simply a study to look at the feasibility of building on that site.

There has been some concerns here, and I had some concerns about it.

Avoiding challenges with operations that you're trying to build and conduct a police uh station, as well as challenges with um seismic upgrading for the existing, and that we would still have to kind of rebuild part of that building in the future sometime, right?

So some of the Langford is pretty set in their um opinion that they want the police station there.

Um, but uh I think Callwood and myself would like to take a second look around to see if we can build greenfield.

So that initial outlay of $1.2 million is just for the study.

That's not hiring a contractor to start building.

The other thing that throws a bit of a wrench in this because it's RCMP, anybody doing work on the study requires a security clearance.

That security clearance can take six months to a year to process.

And it's each individual, it's not just a company gets a blanket security clearance to do it.

So anybody involved with structural architecture or anything like that has to do it, which kind of offsets the RFP.

Like, how do you do that in a way?

There are some vendors out there that have standing security clearances, but they're kind of few and far between.

So there's some more challenges.

So I would see this study probably taking a year to do.

And then probably a decision point.

That decision point might be uh it's not suggested or recommended that it be built on the same site.

Right.

So that that's kind of where that is for that.

Does that make sense?

But could we use part of the monies for the actual construction, or could we use part of the monies for the study that's associated with the the thing?

I think we might be able to, but we won't know until we actually see the the actual letter the details uh Kim unless you know better than I do right now uh counselor Matson I was just gonna say the short answer is we don't know the rules around that other money no with context counselor McKenzie did you have a follow up oh I was just gonna say I'm sure the other municipalities there'll probably be a discussion around this because everyone will want to know um and then the other thing I was gonna say around this uh 8.2c, there is the first resolution there that I don't agree with.

So for that reason, I don't believe I'll be able to um uh approve the whole C.

Just wanted to explain why.

Okay.

Yes, question.

That's a mad.

No, I just say it's called a question.

Get it over.

All in favor of um carrying uh the three parts of C.

And when opposed, counselor uh McKenzie is opposed.

Motion carries um, I don't think we have any other reports.

We're down to bylaws, I think.

Uh over to you, staff.

Move adoption of 1110.

Second.

Any discussion?

Mover?

Second or all in favor?

Any opposed?

Not opposed.

Motion carries.

And wow, we're down to um question period.

Any questions from the audience?

No questions from the audience.

Any questions on the line, Carl?

Mayor Tobias, we have no callers this evening.

And motions and notices and motions.

And I think we've got one, and that's Councillor Rogers.

Move receipt.

I was second to receipt.

Just a question on that.

So moving receipt is uh just putting it off, uh having the discussion at a later date.

Yeah, gentlemen motion, um, your notice of motion can be received tonight, and then we can put it on the next agenda or on the committee of the hall if you prefer.

Yeah.

Um uh moving receipt, but I was hoping that um um we would um have that discussion.

I mean, um I appreciate staff's giving additional information, that's great.

Um the report is useful.

Um, but I think we need to have the discussion uh in concert with the budget discussions of what we're going to approve this uh in this fiscal year and the priority list of uh those road ends.

So I guess you can always raise it during budget, but I think in terms of a notice of motion is just here's what what we're gonna talk about in the future.

Yes.

So the future isn't mean so it isn't tonight, it's the future.

So I I would hope that um we could uh put a notice the here's a notice motion.

I would like to have that on and I'll um formally ask that it go on to the committee of the whole next week, and then we can get into it.

Thank you.

Okay, yeah, the only way we could do otherwise would be uh same-day consideration, then we'd also have to vote for that.

So let's just push it to committee of the whole.

Uh Sarah, you and I can talk about uh squeezing that in uh potentially on Thursday for the agenda for the committee of the whole uh next week.

Um so now we have a closed meeting resolution.

Thank you, Mayor Tobias.

There's a need to have a meeting closed to the public in persons other than the immediate members of council, officers, employees of the town, and those identified under section 91 subsection two of the charter shall be excluded on the basis of section 90 subsection one K municipal service.

And we would uh we will see you.

Thank you.