Committee of the Whole

Good evening uh everyone.

Uh it's the meeting of the committee of the whole for the town of V Royal.

Um Councillor Brown, I'm acting uh chair tonight.

We rotate the chair for these meetings, so it's it's my turn.

We got the mayor sitting in my chair, normal chair.

Um and I'd like to say that we're grateful to live, work, and meet and play on the unceded traditional territories of the Squamulton Songheast Nation.

And I welcome uh all our guests here tonight.

And uh this evening we'll hear from the public during the public participation and question period portions of the agenda.

Uh a reminder that council chamber is a safe, respectful, and inclusive space.

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You may then give us the benefit of your views.

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Public participation comments are limited to five minutes for each speaker and must be related to items on the agenda.

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Can I get a uh motion to uh approve the agenda please counselor lemons uh unanimous delegations and I believe we have uh Corey Vanderhorse on minutes well minutes sorry thanks John uh I get a motion to receive the minutes and adoption move adoption Rogers second unanimously public participation period public want to make comment no doesn't look like it uh carl is there anyone online makes a comment make a comment chair Brown we've uh got no messages so far this evening okay thank you, Carl.

We move to petitions and delegations.

So I believe we have Corey Vanderhorst uh zooming in.

There he is.

Hi, Corey.

Hi, Mr.

Chair.

I'm just going to share a screen here for a quick second.

There we go.

Uh thank you to council for uh inviting me here to uh attend your council meeting tonight.

Uh I'll keep my comments brief, but as we're coming up to the 2025 uh audit here, I uh take a chance to um talk to you quickly about about our audit process uh and then to give council a chance to ask any questions they may have of the auditor.

Uh so you do have our audit plan in your uh packages.

A couple quick highlights uh for council.

Uh at the bottom there on key changes and developments.

There are no significant changes in in accounting and audit standards this year.

So it will be business as usual for our audit process.

And we are keeping an eye on a few changes that'll be coming down the line in 2027 around the financial statements in the presentation, but a few years away.

So 2025 will look similar to the 2024 financial statements in their format.

So you can see in the middle of the screen here, there's a uh line that says we propose to use $1,250,000 as overall materiality.

So that's calculated as roughly 5% of your annual revenues.

Um, what that number means is that's driving the amount of testing we're doing.

Any large transactions, uh, large capital projects or grants that are over that amount, we're checking.

And then for any transactions that are below that dollar value, we're sampling to give ourselves comfort over over the financial statements.

If there's something that we disagree with staff on, or there's something that we find in the course of our audit, I can't give you a clean audit opinion if it's larger than that $1.25 million number.

But if there are smaller numbers, if there's adjustments that are, you know, $50,000, $70,000, $100,000 type thing, I can still give a clean audit opinion.

And of course, when we come back to council in the spring, uh, we would provide an update there on how the audit process went.

Uh, I will also confirm uh independence that we are um I didn't do any other projects or any other work uh with the town that would impair my ability to give you an independent audit opinion.

So I will pause there and turn off the screen sharing.

That's the the key pieces I wanted to uh bring to your attention, and I'd be happy to answer any questions from council.

Counselor or Mayor Tobias, you have a question?

Uh thank you, Chair.

Through you, I just have two quick questions.

Um, is your entire focus just on transactions for this year, or could it also be historic as well?

The main focus of 2025 would be just the 2025 transactions.

That being said, when we look at your statement of financial position, that is an accumulation of balances over the years, uh in you know, cash receivables and um and some of those other accounts like your your uh capital assets that have built up over time.

So to the answer the question, uh Mr.

Mayor, it's a bit of both.

Um we are looking at some of those older accounts um and seeing that they still make sense uh to be there on the books and at the end of 2025.

Thank you.

And uh Chair pleases you just for a second question.

Um just have a question about your sampling where uh you know a line item doesn't meet a threshold.

Um my my question is, I guess you're doing a bit of random sampling within the the the the host of line items.

How are you separating it year over year?

And you know, given the length of your contract, are you portioning certain things out that you want to dive deeper into each year?

My I guess my concern here is that we're looking at the same things maybe twice over two years or three years and not looking at something new.

Right.

So there's a there's a probably two two main uh ways to one is that um we always incorporate an element of unpredictability into our testing, looking at something that we haven't looked at before, um, whether that's a control and is an internal control working over your finances, or just a balance or an account and something that we haven't looked at.

Uh, you know, that's a way of keeping staff on their toes, that we're not always looking at the same thing.

So they get used to getting uh getting, you know, one account uh dialed in and and reconciled and other things get left.

Um so that's a part of our process always every year we're looking at something differently.

Uh then the other piece would be that our audit is risk focused.

So if there are areas of the audit that we think have higher risk of a misstatement we will spend the time there.

You know we are often looking at grants and capital projects and the timing of of when is a grant recognized and is all the capital worked on if there's anything that's in progress, you know, right at the end of December, there's there's what we call a cutoff of of what year is it in?

Should it be in 2025?

Should it be in 2026?

Um, so those risks that we're uh making a judgment call on, and and and we we do discuss with staff and get their opinion as well if there's certain areas they think we should look at, um those drive the specific accounts that we would look at.

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Chair.

Any further questions?

Quite this is quite hypothetical, and and I hope it never happens, but I uh when you were talking about the topics for discussion, uh fraud, um, and and any kind of risk of suspected or alleged.

And I'm thinking of um the worst case scenarios where municipalities and companies um are victims of um a cyber attack and and ransom.

Um I'm curious, how would you and uh both the staff and and uh the auditor account for uh those uh in this process?

Great, thank you, counselor.

It's a great question.

So one of the things we staff always wants to be is proactive and making sure those communications out and they're reducing the risk there.

Um we would have conversations with staff about what programs are in place to you know reduce the risk of of any cyber incidents, whether it's you know, a fraud or uh you know what we call social engineering, where somebody simulates an email, something like that.

Um we have conversations when we come in uh for the main part of the auto work of was there any issues, did anything come up.

We are looking at some of those key areas of what's the risk, what could happen.

Oftentimes some of the fraud would could go undetected if it's small dollar amounts.

Again, the then audit is randomly sampling things.

We might not see small frauds.

Um large ones would tend to get picked up by your staff before us.

That is just sort of the reality that your staff have good controls in place.

They are they are paying attention to some of those, you know, there's an unusual payment or unusual emails and and attempts uh by the fraudsters.

Uh they've got checks and balances in place to catch those.

Um that being said, we we know in the municipal space there's been some pretty significant frauds in the last few years.

So we do look at those, you know, we we look at the reports and the sort of after action, what went wrong type of thing, and and we'll ask staff about those and what are they doing to ensure that some of those things won't happen at at your municipality.

Well, okay, if if I just may follow up.

I know I understand what you were saying about the uh the fraud and and uh the detection therein.

This one is right in our face.

This is a ransomware, and um uh you know, under this sad circumstances we felt compelled to act and and um and recover our data.

So how would that be covered in an audit?

How does how is that addressed when we actually had to pay out?

You mean the costs of it?

Yeah, I mean, that's a that's a real cost to the town.

Um, it would go, I mean, we would discuss with staff of where the appropriate allocation is.

It becomes a a period expense of 2025.

Um and then the other piece of that is uh investigating.

I mean, we're not doing a full investigation, but we would inquire about how did it happen, what's the risk of it happening again, is there risk to other uh you know, other incidents or other things happening?

Um, but we know they're common, we know they happen.

You know, we'll ask about the magnitude and uh and then adjust our risk assessments as we go forward.

Excellent.

Thank you very much.

Okay, thank you any further questions.

If not, can I get a motion to uh accept the report?

Move out by uh Mayor Tobias.

Second by Counselor Lyman.

All those in favor?

Asked unanimously.

Yeah, thank you.

Same system we had at the CBRD.

Uh good evening, Chair Brown, uh Mayor Tobias and Council.

Uh want to thank you uh to our view royal municipal partners and want to extend my deepest thank thank you for your investment and your commitment to our regional collaboration.

It's the most vital component component of the economic opportunities we are building together.

You're not just important funders, you are co-creators of a more resilient, inclusive, sustainable, and entrepreneurial South Island economy.

Next slide.

Next slide.

In the last 12 months, our collaborative work has dramatically accelerated our impact, achieving results that are recognized not just regionally but internationally.

Our model works because it is designed for this region.

It is equitable, giving smaller jurisdictions an equal voice at the table.

Crucially, it's incredibly affordable.

The average municipal investment only $1.64 per capita, making CIPS mandate the most cost effective in all of Canada.

And that modest investment delivers a massive return on investment.

We achieve powerful efficiency.

Oh, sorry, next slide.

We achieve uh powerful efficiency through leverage for every municipal dollar spent in our operations.

We in vet leverage $1.63 of external funds, federal, provincial, and private, into projects.

The overall return on annual household payroll is generated as a remarkable 57 to 1 return over the municipal investment.

This approach has been internationally validated at the at with the IEDC bronze award for economic development organization of the year for 2025.

Next slide.

This international rec recognition extends to our talent work.

Our digital platform, Victoria Rising, which markets our region to attract talent and companies, earned the IEDC Gold Award for Special Purpose Website.

This platform actively targets and attracts essential workers in healthcare, clean tech, and other high growth sectors that all of our communities desperately need.

Next slide.

Next slide.

The IPC is driving action now.

We are actively engaging over 200 youth and 130 entrepreneurs annually, prepping for the second annual regional youth conference this AP in April of 2026, and developing a municipal Indigenous procurement workshop that will guide local governments in Indigenous procurement opportunities across the region.

South Island Indigenous Business Directory has already reached 120 members and continues to grow.

Next slide.

Center for Ocean Applied Sustainable Technologies.

Coast is accelerating climate-focused ocean technology and innovation, leveraging over $2 million from the BC Innovation Clean Energy Fund, and over $3 million from PacificN to date.

This is matched dollar for dollar with private sector investment through leading ocean companies from around the world.

This also highlights the strategic growth of Coast.

We recently opened the Coast Hub downtown Victoria as a home for innovation.

We also launched Blue Pathways in September of 2024, a Coast initiative that provides curated learning and training opportunities in high-demand areas like renewable energy, data, and AI for the blue economy.

Next slide.

The Coast Model is a comprehensive ecosystem builder, focusing on four pillars of outreach, training, investment, and facilities.

Current project initiatives include planning the BC Energy and Decarbonization, Ocean Energy and Decarbonization Hub and an Autonomous Vessels Hub, among more.

Next slide.

But as this slide reminds us, we have critical structural challenges, an over reliance on public sector employment, and high costs driving young people away.

It is time to reset the story of who we are.

Next slide.

The rising economy task force identified core structural issues that we must address, including persistent affordability pressures, stagnant productivity, and the challenge of disjointed efforts in a shared regional economy.

Next slide.

This includes our highly skilled workforce, a stable economic base, thriving technology sectors, and a world-class quality of life, among more.

Next slide.

Our path forward is to build on these strengths.

Our future success is governed by the Rising Economy 2030 plan, our comprehensive five-year strategy through 2030 for Greater Victoria.

Next slide.

This plan is not a top-down document.

It is validated by a rigorous process that included the launch of the Rising Economy Task Force Report or Task Force in March of 2025, public surveys extensive engagement with community and business leaders, and their task force report released in September.

The Rising Economy 2030 strategy launched just a few weeks ago at the beginning of October.

Next slide.

Renewed mission.

SIP has a collaborative regional alliance driving the economic future for Greater Victoria.

We implement projects that steer the region toward our four strategic rise goals.

You can see them there.

Next slide.

This work has also led to a renewed mission.

SIP has a collaborative regional alliance driving the economic future of Greater Victoria.

We implement projects that steer the region towards our four strategic rise goals.

Oh, I repeated myself.

Apologies.

Our vision is to build a region where innovators and entrepreneurs thrive alongside local shopkeepers, where Indigenous and non-Indigenous people co-create prosperity, and where young people can build their futures here.

Next slide.

A resilient, inclusive, sustainable, and entrepreneurial economy.

Next slide.

But a plan is just paper without a collective spirit.

This is why we launched the Possibility Charter at the same time as the Rising Economy 2030 plan.

A regionwide declaration that hope is fundamental to strategy.

We are collectively flipping the script, shifting the regional narrative from complacency and challenge to one defined by hope and entrepreneurship.

Next slide.

Next slide.

I would have had a video here, but we can't play it, so we'll skip to the next slide, please.

Looking ahead, our mission is clear.

Activate the 2030 plan, expand the charter's influence, scale up coast, and drive deeper Indigenous economic inclusion.

To our municipal partners, this regional alliance, fueled by your collaboration and our highly efficient investment vehicle, is not just working, it is leading nationally and recognized globally.

We ask for your continued unwavering partnership to keep the momentum going and achieve the shared prosperity that South Island is capable of.

Thank you, and we'll be happy to take questions.

Anyone have questions for Aaron?

Go ahead, Count Uh Mayor Tobias.

Thanks for the work you do, Aaron in Dallas.

Much appreciated.

Thanks, Chair.

Having had the opportunity to attend your gathering last year, but this uh same time there was lots of big brains in the room that made the world a better place.

Um I'm just wondering, is it a service that you offer to help municipalities and consult with them on potentials for strategic planning?

Because economic um activity needs places to do business.

Yeah.

Um and is that a service that you provide?

In the past it hasn't.

However, uh uh Chair Brown, Councillor Brown is a member of the Municipal Partners committee.

Um we've had a really busy year, but it is our intention to have a dialogue with the municipal partners team in the new year to do a renewed set of municipal benefits.

Although I I would be hesitant to guarantee that.

And also if there's like we did with the District of Santage, if there's a collaborative opportunity where we can go out and seek third-party funding to do a study or a specific business initiative within any municipality of the region, we'll take those on.

As you know, you know, we know municipal budgets are as tight as they've ever been.

Our nonprofit sector is in the same crunch right now.

Um, so we don't have a lot of um spare cash laying around to take on new projects outside of our core mandate.

Um, but we can also seek those funding opportunities either with private and public partners and uh and support that work.

I did mention on the way into your planning staff, as you get closer to your OCP, we're happy to provide some insights and feedback from an economic development perspective on your OCP, and as you do other things like strategic plans, would absolutely support that work.

Thanks, sir.

Sir Lemon.

I like that.

That that was something I was interested in.

But I just a question about a line that jumped out a bit at me, and that was the WandaPuca Corridor Project.

What is that?

So that's being really driven by Gail and Souk in her economic development role.

But there's a collaborative group that's come together that's looking at basically from I think is as close as a squame all the way out the West Coast in partnership with the nations as well to really market and and uh more fully develop that tourism corridor all the way out to Renfrew, I believe.

Um so we'll continue to support that work primarily, I believe, through IPC's got some some direct engagement in it with the nations right now.

Um, but continue to support that work like we do with all the economic development initiatives around the region.

Got it.

Good.

Thank you.

Welcome.

Thank uh thank you, uh Aaron.

Uh I really appreciate your leadership and and of course uh uh Dallas's help as well.

Your hard work is really appreciated.

I really like being uh on the committee.

It really helps.

And also just a quick sideline on Aaron, uh, because uh I know you're a glutton for punishment because you're three time mayor of the town of Ladysmith.

Um also I won't uh add any dates because we're all data so obviously, you're way younger than me, but just a quick quick story.

Um that we actually played basketball high school against each other.

Aaron was on the uh double a uh high school basketball championship team and we had an RCMP team that played an exhibition game against them and uh and act everyone's gonna say well who won who won?

Well it was actually a tie because the the buzzer ran for lunch and the the mean principle made everyone go back to class and retroactively I apologize for my elbows up because I I think that was that was my theme long before at the prime minister.

So but but thank you very much for your presentation and and counselor rogers.

Thank you it's good good to have the uh the background stories.

So one of the one of the things I'm really impressed with is that you you um um you did the economic risks that report and that's where I really paid attention to the work that you were doing it wasn't just um you know we're everything's great this is really a very essential wake up um I think for for the region for um the municipalities and and the businesses alike and the First Nations everyone's got a stake in this and everyone's going to invest invest in in getting a solution to this so um you know it it is curious um we're talking about um you know stagnant uh um an over reliance of the public sector, how do we bring in the private?

The um you know the disjointed efforts in the shared economy, 13 municipalities in one region.

So uh you know, I I applaud you for putting the um uh the paper together.

Is there going to be now uh where the rubber hits the road and every municipality is going to have to start reflecting and chipping in on uh sorry, not just every other municipality, every group is going to um start chipping in and making it uh uh turning this thing around.

Well, uh I uh that's absolutely my goal um as a longtime practitioner um at a municipal and a regional level.

Um there's no question that there is an interrelated practice that goes from local all the way up to federal.

Um there's a needs to be tight integration with local initiatives and regional initiatives, because the reality is for for our region, is people from the outside, if you're looking at FDI business attraction, they think of it as greater Victoria or the South Island.

They don't look at it from 13 municipal, nine First Nation lens.

However, there's an interrelation between once you get that attention into the region, where does it best land within the region?

My advice has always been be who you are within that region.

So there's going to be a different priority set for a Langford, a View Royal, a downtown Victoria that contributes to that sort of concept we look at in OCPs around a complete community.

Well, that's a complete economic community.

So as a region, we have uh what I like to say is a beautiful mosaic of differences.

So what the priority for Sydney, we we find about 85%, if we had a Venn diagram of 13 municipalities, there's an intersection of about 85% of challenges, opportunities, and priorities.

But those 15% of differences are what make you distinct to a potential investor or a potential startup business, a potential small business proprietor, that looks at the whole gamut of you know, lifestyle, um, business uh friendliness.

Um, so although, you know, some of the municipalities have very active local economic development people that are always sort of picking to draw those business investments into their communities.

Um, that's the conversation we continue to have that I think I brought as a new CEO to our organization is how do we better support those businesses?

If you think of newcomers coming to a country or a region, how do we land those businesses best in the region in the best way?

And that's in partnership with the municipalities to say what are your differences, what are your commonalities, and what's the best place for that business to invest.

That said, at the same time, through our study work, you'll note that most people in an average day live, work, spend, commute, drive income across municipal boundaries.

The kind of, you know, the rising tide floats all boats does apply to economic development.

Um, that said, I've also in many of my speaking engagements talked about friendly cooperation.

So once we get people to the region, elbows up with each other a little bit, collaboratively wherever you can, but to fight for those business investments into your own community.

Um we need to have a continued conversation though on who we best engage with at the municipal level to help make that connection happen, or how we best as an organization support each municipality and getting those investment decisions to be made in their communities.

And certainly um, you know, in terms of the regional economy, um I I appreciate um the north-south getting from the ferries and the the airport, you know, getting those international folks down into Victoria effectively, efficiently.

But how do we get them to the Western communities, the West, you know, when they have to go through the pinch point, Core View Royal?

And I'd be very curious, you know, to see how um did you look at my resume?

You know, is able to leverage some solutions here because we do have a transportation corridor.

And if we do have, you know, let's face it, indigenous interests and rights and on in terms of that transportation corridor, you know, is there uh a means of you helping to facilitate and prod the provincial government into, and maybe the feds too, into working on a real sincere partnership that we can move this thing along.

So um I I joked about asking if you looked at my resume, because obviously I was chair of the Island Corridor Foundation for quite a long time and and really advocated strongly for interregional rail from Langford North and from Langford downtown for commuter rail.

There's a significant amount of money that's being spent on uh rapid bus lines that, to my perspective, would have been better spent on rehabilitating the rail corridor and providing a REM in Montreal like service between Langford and West uh Vic West.

Um that said, I continue to advocate to anyone who will listen.

I'm uh uh I joked with Councillor Lemmon before the meeting that uh I'm still a nerd, transportation nerd at heart.

I believe in community good community planning, good economic development, good transportation, builds vibrant communities across regions.

Um, and I think we deserve that on the South Island.

Uh, the the transportation investment in this region is abysmal compared to the lower mainland.

We do deserve better.

Um, but also I have to work in um a way that continues to maintain what I call high trust relationships to be an effective advocate.

Um, so I continue to do that.

Um, I know a lot of other people in this region that are working really hard.

I'm not gonna say things out of turn.

Um, but I know the nations are having conversations with the West Shore mayors right now around that transportation corridor, and I think their leadership deserves recognition on that file.

Um, we'll keep doing our part to advocate from an economic development perspective, from an equity lens, from a building of vibrant community conversation, and how that supports strong uh economic foundations.

Um, but uh it would be not my place to speak on behalf of the nations or all the political parties involved, but yes, we absolutely do uh advocate for good transportation as a core of a strong uh economic foundation in the region.

Thank you.

Very, very nice to hear.

Can I just one last question?

How municipality, how many municipalities are on board with uh we use you folks?

Uh I can't again I can't speak with them, but I believe most of the West Shore municipalities are supportive.

Um, Mayor Desjardins, currently the chair of the Island Corridor Foundation, uh my successor as chair.

Um, and uh I know that to my knowledge, the other West Shore mayors are supportive, but again, I don't it's it's not my place to speak to that.

No, I'm not I'm not talking about the West Shore, I'm talking about how many municipalities are members of the South Island Prosperity Partnership.

Oh, right now there's eight.

So we Langford was never a member, and Calwood and Central Saanich left.

Um Highlands and Machosen, um, no disrespect to them, but I I I joked with them that if you are a member for your few thousand dollars a year, I'll direct any investment elsewhere.

Um but um but I'm hopeful that that with the renewed vision and the you know Langford's been um really engaged with us.

Like frankly, their elected body is the one of the most engaged municipalities over the last year since I arrived here, of any of them.

Um and I'm hopeful to have continuing dialogue with Central Sainwich and Callwood and bring them back into the conversation because I'm really, I'm really I came here as another local elected leader that focused on economic development as really the foundation of my political career.

And I viewed SIP as the best opportunity and the best model of this work in British Columbia.

Since I've been here, I'm firmly believe it's not only one of the very best in Canada, but it is one of the best in the world.

It's that private public third sector alliance where you're bringing education and private businesses to contribute financially to that model.

It makes it a lot more work.

Um, but at the same time, I believe that that model shows a commitment from across sectors to making a better uh economy, which to me is a foundation of building a better quality of life for people.

Um, it's the same reason I ran for mayor, and it's the same reason I took this role and and I'm here today.

Thank you.

Counselor Cole, which you have a question.

Uh, thank you.

Thank you for coming.

Always nice to hear all the efforts you're making.

And congratulations on your international award in some gold and bronze.

Well done.

I do have a question, and it may not be a layup for you.

No.

I know you've practiced basketball with Councilor Brown.

I was on the bench for that championship team most of the time, Councillor Brown.

Yes.

Well, you probably shouldn't have prefaced this with that, but if there was a room full of a hundred Vero Royal constituents, and they said, Hey, we've been a member of SIP since 2014, right?

And without saying the wonderful speech you just gave, clearly a lot of elected official experience, and I know about how economic prosperity passes over jurisdictional boundaries and geographical areas.

What would you say is your most shining moment for the residents of URL?

Uh I would say that the possibility and potential that we've launched in the last 12 months for me is absolutely fundamental.

It takes time to build to this level.

It's happened over the last nearly decade of investment in the organization.

I could provide studies and details that have been done, you know, pre-pandemic of the impact, um, since the pandemic, the Coast Investments, the Indigenous Prosperity Center, both have shown tangible and really laudable results.

And I think that if I were knowing going into a room of View Royal, I'd do my research.

And I would probably bring a few maps to show people about how the income dependencies of those people in View Royal are maybe derived across the region and how our work has impacted their ability to earn a household supporting income for them and their families.

And how continuing to invest in the next evolution of SIP will only improve those metrics.

And I would say in the materials that we sent in advance, the KPIs in there are very direct and clear.

And that's something that I think that we're bringing to the conversation going forward that will not only reinforce the value to date, but show greater value over the five years ahead.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thanks.

First one is development variance permit, uh, 1701 Island Highway.

So thank you, Acting Chair and Council.

So this presentation is to introduce the development variance permit for 1701 Island Highway.

The applicant is requesting one variance, the town's sign bylaw to increase a maximum sign area for a freestanding sign.

Next slide.

So please note that the following is an introductory presentation and public notification will be required following before a second report will be brought to council for their consideration.

Next slide.

So on screen is an aerial photo of the subject property.

1701 Island Highway is located on the corner of Island Highway and Wilford Road and is zone C7 business park.

There are presently three commercial buildings on site that are occupied by Sirius Coffee, Excalibur Glass, and several offices and a daycare.

Next slide please so there's currently one freestanding sign on the property which is located right on the corner, shown on the screen with a red star.

And the applicant is looking to add two new signs to the existing signpost, which is currently in association with Sirius Coffee.

So next slide, please.

So in 2009, council approved a development variance permit which allowed for the maximum height to be eight meters for the existing signpost.

This exceeds the maximum height currently permitted under the bylaw and is therefore considered legally nonconforming.

So previous freestanding signs were also one for big O tires, which is located in the sign that is shown on the screen as where the location for peak physio and Excalibur Glasses.

So that permit was done in 2015 and did not require variances and was afterwards removed.

So we're coming for like they have a new application essentially for these sign permits now.

So the sign bylaw allows for a maximum sign area of four meters squared, which is as you can see the the sign area for the existing sign, which is Sirius Coffee.

And as a result, they've requested to increase that to a total of 7.4 meters squared in order to allow for the two new signs.

Next slide please.

So staff are in support of the requested variants to increase the maximum sign area because the proposed sign meets all of the requirements for freestanding signs within the sign by law.

And it is not unusual for a freestanding sign such as this one to have multiple businesses in order to advertise andor for wayfinding.

In fact, there are several along this strip that have multiple businesses along a freestanding sign or a pylon type sign from the ground.

It's still considered a freestanding sign by our bylaw.

Next slide, please.

So it is the recommendation of staff that the committee recommend to council after giving notice to consider the following motion to authorize the issuance of the development grants permit uh at a later date.

So if you have any questions.

Anybody have any questions?

Someone make a motion to accept the signal.

I move uh the staff's recommendation.

Move by mayor to buy to buy the bias segment by counselor Lemmon.

All those in favor thank you very much the next item is the uh development permit with variants in application number 2025-06 and Jeff go ahead thank you senior planner uh this is an application for a development permit within the uh natural water course and shoreline development permit area uh for a um to reconstruct a single family dwelling on that property and uh four variants are required next slide please uh where we are in the application process is this application is being introduced to members of the uh to the community whole um yeah the community whole recommends moving it forward similar to the previous presentation uh public notification notification would be conducted prior to council decision on the application next slide the uh property is over 1000 square meters it's located at the uh near the end of shoreline drive it is a waterfront property that backs onto portage inlet uh this is a 2023 photo that shows the uh building on the property that has was uh recently removed from the site.

The um uh surrounding land uses are all single family residential.

Next slide, please.

And this is a the uh photo of the site from Monday, and uh on the right hand side you'll see a photo of uh along the street of how it looked uh a couple weeks ago and how it looks today.

Next slide, please.

So uh that's basically uh one and one-half story buildings on either side of the property and a two-story building across the street.

Next slide.

Uh the development permit area covers the area 15 meters from the natural boundary.

On the left hand side is the photo of the uh kind of the existing rear yard.

As you can see, it was highly modified, lawns, ornamental species.

Did have uh four trees in the rear yard.

Uh, two are fir trees that have been taut and one carry oak, as well as a deodorant deodor cedar.

Uh deodorant cedar is on the right hand side in the uh left hand photo.

On the right is a photo basically just a couple steps down to the uh to the waterfront, and you can sort of see there it's uh it's a saltwater marsh, so very low-lying, wet, uh muddy, muddy um kind of shoreline.

Um you'll see in the lower left hand corner there's a kind of a two foot kind of retaining wall that's made from uh old kind of rubble and uh interesting in this photo is the uh the Gary O which basically kind of grows almost horizontal uh hanging over the water next slide please uh so the proposal is to within the development permit area uh is to uh most of that area would be restored with native vegetation like 93 percent of it uh so removing all the lawn and ornamental species.

Um replacement trees would be planted on kind of the north side of the property.

Oh, back one slide, please.

Uh replacement trees would be placed on the north side of the property.

Um existing trees in the middle would be retained, and there would be four different types of planting zones, all with native species that are that are suited to the area and plants that are suitable to uh to kind of uh salt water type environment.

Uh there'd be one little gravel path that kind of uh meanders around the yard and a wooden walkway that would go down from the uh the proposed dwelling down to the water.

Um the development permit area guidelines also look at um at uh potential for flooding.

So um a sea level rise report was done by a geotechnical engineer based on some information that from the C RD's 2021 study and some analysis of the the local conditions.

And uh the uh this has had consequences for the proposed building.

So as a consequence, some uh variants are varies are requested.

So on the uh diagram here you sort of see the development permit area boundary is kind of shown in kind of a dashed line so that can covers the 15 meter uh setback from the natural boundary or development permit area.

The uh the the sea level rise study actually recommends a a flood setback of um a larger amount of 20, roughly 22 meters, I believe.

So what that means is the houses actually has to be pushed away from the water and also up.

Uh so as a consequence, there's slightly less space to build the dwelling.

So they're requesting um some variances as a result of this study.

But this one shows the extent of the uh the flood setback, which is almost halfway uh almost half half of the property.

Um this flood setback uh is intended to address the uh expected sea level rise and you know impacts that happen when you have like storms and high tide and one thing piled on top of the other, and to ensure that the uh the building will be safe for the life of the the expected life of the building um for the next hundred years or so uh but as a consequence there are some variances requested next slide please uh there are four four variances two of them relate to the height of the the building uh the sighting of the building the last two relate to the uh wooden walkway that access the rear yard because uh there are it's a structure because it's because it's elevated and uh there's one set back to the rear lot line and one to the uh natural boundary uh next slide, please.

The requested height variance is to uh is to increase the height from vegetation 7.5 meters to 8.0 meters.

The grade and part of that is due to the uh because the floor living space on the dwelling has to be raised up.

Uh the grade difference would would be raised by 0.68 uh meters, which is just over two feet.

Uh and as a consequence to build a two-story building, um, we measure height from the natural grade, um, not the finished grade.

So the actual height of the building, if if you measured from the kind of the the finished grade would be uh would be you know closer, very close to what the zoning bylaw requires, is just because the the whole structure has to be lifted up to be safe from potential for flooding.

Uh next slide, please.

Internative relationship to the adjacent buildings.

Um the neighboring property at the end of Shoreline Drive uh 2820.

Uh that site is higher than this site.

And uh some members of council may remember a large addition was done to that house um a couple years ago.

Uh this dwelling would be you know still be sighted below the level of that that uh that building.

Uh on the left hand side, um the the a new retaining wall would be put in to as part of raising the grade uh in terms of screening the building to minimize um you know impacts any potential impacts on privacy uh hedges proposed between the um between the dwelling and and the retaining wall and the retaining wall will also have a fence on it um you can sort of see here that the uh the illustration where the where the hedge would be uh in this case in terms of neighborhood impacts uh uh there aren't really significant impacts across the street or or to the to the right of this building but uh for the existing dwelling at uh 2816 shoreline drive um measures would be taken to sort of minimize the visual impact um that the other the other thing to consider is that if 2816 and the other buildings between this building and shoreline middle school were to develop in the future, they would also be subject to considerations for sea level rise and those buildings would have to be raised up a little as well.

So this is kind of an interim until one day those buildings might get redeveloped.

Next slide please the final two variants is really to the wooden walkway uh one other one other uh the other setback is because the building is kind of being squeezed a little bit closer to the front the request is to site the building um 6.45 meters from the front lot line rather than 7.5 is required in the R1 zone.

That is a difference of 1.05 meters in this case it can be supported is because it's to accommodate um accommodate the garage so the main building the main front of the building would be uh would still be approximately 11 meters from the uh from the street so that's in keeping with what you see on on the lot so in this case it would just be the garage sticking out it doesn't really have any neighborhood impacts.

Next slide please so the final two variants are are related to the kind of the the elevated wooden walkway so it's kind of like in some parks you go it's like a little boardwalk um the rear yard is expected to become marshier over time and this wooden walkway elevated walkway would kind of provide kind of an elevated space uh to access the water and and the rear yard and it's about um uh it does have a step to it so the highest point of the actual walkway itself would be about two feet off the expected level of the uh the rear yard uh the setback is both to the rear lot line and to the uh natural boundary so the rear lot line is the surveyed uh rear lot line natural boundary changes over time and that's why we have two different variances uh next slide, please uh this is a photo, again, this is just a photo showing the uh I can't I can yeah, basically I can't remember why I wanted to show the photo, but again it shows you the context of the over the building be relative to the uh to the other dwellings and the properties as the so the distance from the streets in the streetscape will not be significant.

And next slide, please.

And so um overall the this is a development permit, and the uh the primary consideration is basically how it meets the development area permit area guidelines.

The proposal can be supported because it actually puts supports restores 93% of the land within the development permit area to uh with native plants that are appropriate to the area.

Um this is almost double the target of what we usually support in uh heavily developed areas.

Uh the elevated walkway reduces impact on the future marshy uh development permit area.

Um there would be a um stormwater management facility uh for permitter drainage to go into portage inlet, and they are proposing a system that would um would uh emphasize infiltration to reduce pollutants going into the uh inlet and to make natural patterns in terms of minimizing erosion and scouring um the repair to the to the seawall which again is only two feet high is small scale it would be just restoration works didn't by done by hand to sort of replace some broken rubble with hand placed rocks and be supervised by the biologist to maximize planting areas there and and the final great thing that they're doing is retaining these existing carry oak because that type of tree um odd as it is uh provides shade to the area detection to and feeding habitat for fish and wildlife so next slide please so the recommendation is to um is to support the application moving forward to council for consideration thank you mr child any questions uh mayor to bias thank you chair um uh three questions uh during the build does our current procedure and policy require like snow fencing and uh prevention of in the process of building um things being uh pushed due to rain into uh portage inlet um so in terms of snow fencing for for tree retention and yeah as it's being built.

Do we do we have that policy in place?

That's that's a tree permit requirement for retained trees.

Okay, and um uh just to be clear, there was one slide that you had a tree removal.

Was it just one tree?

Uh it looked like a row of trees with an X on it.

Is it just a single tree through through this whole process that is going to be removed?

Uh through the chair, uh there were actually two trees on the site that would be removed.

One is the uh the cedar at the rear of the property, which is a uh which is a non-native cedar, and that's in a location where a lot of the other restoration work in terms of additional trees would be planted, and there's some grade changes back there.

Uh there is one tree to be removed in the front because they're proposing a double wide driveway instead of a single for it because of the two-car garage.

Okay, and uh thank you.

And my last question was uh how do we come up with a dollar amount of forty-three thousand dollars for landscaping and protection of natural environment?

Like, is there a formula we use?

I'm just curious.

Uh through the chair, the landscape cost estimate is provided by the uh landscape designer or landscape architect for larger projects.

Uh in this case, because they're doing the whole rear yard, they're putting um doing some grade work, extensive planting of of uh it's it's unusually high because it's quite a large area that they're doing.

Okay, and uh just a follow-on to that.

So they pay us a security positive of forty-three thousand dollars, and when the conditions are met, and I'm assuming they've conformed to the plan they've submitted with the variances, um then they get their security deposit back in full, correct?

Uh through the chair generally, that's correct.

Um this case, well, we are actually having um yeah, if we do retain it, retain it to make sure that the work is done.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Councilor Rogers, Councilor Queen.

Yes, thank you.

Excellent report.

Um uh all the points are um are are well point um well made.

The um uh clearly this is um getting to be in a floodplain, and the house is gonna have a floodplain construction, the setback is a floodplain, um, you know, which is interesting when you do all the uh and the you know when it comes back to council, can you provide a contour map?

Because I'm curious to see how those lines that are going through um uh this particular property, how that goes, because it seems to me that shoreline drive will be uh is is also dipping down at probably as low as this property.

And um so it does beg the next question.

Um when will we be getting the uh uh the flood analysis, uh high sea level rise analysis, and uh that uh Victoria has been working on on behalf of um all the impacted municipalities, San, if you will, Victoria Esquamo.

Uh through the chair, that project is still gonna be another year um because we're at the early stages, so there was a number of public engagement in in that terms of that process uh it's in a phase where they've just done some initial reaching out of you know people communities understanding of the gorge waterway uh the next step that they're doing right now is technical analysis and they'll come back with different um results of that analysis and some suggestions on how to address it.

Uh the town one one of the plug is we do have another uh our own coastal adaptation mapping kind of project and this which kind of ties in with this, and basically we're just doing updated mapping.

We hope to to provide that to council probably in the new year.

Certainly, um the town's had uh previous experience um uh there's the White Plain Road um uh right across the sea from the Centennial Park and uh the historical flooding that's going on there and the and that one particular house had an extraordinary efforts of uh a uh concrete um flood barrier protection.

Um do we um uh when ho houses build in in these floodplains circumstances, obviously they have to satisfy a town, but don't they have to ins um satisfy their insurance company as well?

Uh through chair chair likely through uh it's usually if you have financing involved, typically they want to make sure that investment is going to be protected.

So I'm sure the insurance company will be uh relieved that the town's approving the project.

But um thank you for the report.

That'll help them as well.

Uh if if we do indeed go ahead.

No further questions.

Thank you, Councilor Lyman.

Given that there's some variance variances with this DP, Jeff, it will go to public hearing?

Um to the chair, so this it will be considered a council meeting.

So if the committee whole supports moving it forward, uh we would um notification would be provided for the council meeting for which that did that decision made.

Okay.

So there would be an opportunity for call public comment on that at that meeting.

Great, thank you.

And just to just to you know, uh kind of auxiliary question the boardwalk is considered a structure correct through the walkway yes the walkway is because so i'm just wondering if and i'm just thinking of previous meetings where an an accessory building was considered within the allowable square footage of structure on on a site would a boardwalk be figured into something like that, you know, if if it if they were you know looking for something else down the road.

Um through the uh through the chair.

Uh the boardwalk would typically when we're talking about the amount of lot coverage.

Um I think uh it would depend on how the how the deck was constructed, if it's if it's permeable.

Like if there's lot coverage, it it would get would get included.

Okay.

Um because it's because it is a structure.

So yeah, that's that's the short answer.

It's a trick question.

Yeah.

Okay.

You got a motion to accept the staff recognition moved by Mayor Tobias.

Second.

Second by Councillor Rogers.

All those in favor?

Approved unanimously.

Thank you, Joe.

Thank you.

And I believe Mr.

Somerville, you're here next up.

Scott Summerville, Chief Administrative Officer.

Thank you, Chair Brown, Mayor and Council.

Um, before you this evening um is sort of the starting gun to start our budgeting process for 2026.

The purpose of the report is to seek a target percentage tax increase for a representative home.

Currently, according to our last financial plan bylaw, we're looking at a 9% tax increase overall, not factoring in the non market change.

Non market change is the value of new construction that helps sort of dilute the tax burden amongst all of our residents.

I just wanted to, it was actually supposed to include some good news, but um there's a couple of alarm bells this year.

We don't know the non-market change, so that that could be good news, but I don't have that information yet tonight.

Um of the concerning factors though is declining revenue from the casino.

Uh we alerted council last year that we we couldn't count on our regular $2 million in revenue from the casino.

We reduced our revenue projections to 1.9.

Um we're currently on track for about 1.75 this year.

So $150,000 less than we expected.

And I'm not sure that it's going to get better next year.

So we will have to have a serious discussion about what we use casino revenue for.

Um there's competing interests.

I see my asset management folks over there.

Um they would love to uh have access to that funding to maintain crucial assets to provide services to the community.

So this is a bit of a preface to that presentation.

As well, we have declining uh development services permit revenue.

Um we've seen that over the course of the year, but we're just not bringing in the building permit revenues and the development permits um rezoning that we have in the past.

That's going to take a serious look this year.

On the expense side of the budget, it's an election year.

So, you know, I I know that there's political pressure um to deliver a balanced budget, but it's also expensive to run a budget.

Um so we that that's something we do every four years if we're lucky, but um the election is coming up in October.

We will need to budget for that.

Um we will be running three major competitive processes this year.

Um council got a taste of that when we we went out to market for the boulevard contract last year.

Um we'll be doing that again this year.

That was a that was a short-term contract to try out a new vendor.

Um, but we've got our waste management contract, we've got our managed service provider for IT, um, which is a big contract.

So um I guess the good news is that when you go to market, sometimes you you get a better deal.

But currently these are these are unknown expenses.

Um to add to the gloomy forecast, uh, last year we paid three quarters of a year for the e comm 911 levy.

This year we're getting stuck with all 12 months of that bill.

So that's um that's about an extra 125,000, we'll say.

To be determined, there's kind of a wide range right now.

I know that uh the province has just come out with a report on e-com governance, but I don't expect that to result in an immediate reduction in the costs of 911 service.

We we are rising and reporting later in this agenda about the uh RCMP building, um, the expansion that's happening there.

Uh that is planned to be funded through the CRD, uh, but won't show up on our portion of the tax bill, but it will show up on our residence and our businesses tax bill, the apportionment from the CRD.

Um, timing at this point is unknown.

And the final unknown is the collective agreement with our firefighters.

Um, that will expire on December 31st.

It was uh it's been a good contract so far, but uh we're we're going to kick off in negotiations sometime in 2026 on that collective agreement.

So I guess what I'm saying is there's currently a lot of unknowns, um, some things to be concerned about, and we're sitting in a nine percent tax increase, not factoring in in new development.

So, in order to sort of set the tone for staff, um last year we were kind of told keep services equal to how they have been, um, and and we'll we'll review what that tax impact is at the end.

I think for this year um we're seeking some input from council as to what percentage tax increase would be palatable.

Um, and then we can go back and we can uh sharpen our pencils and and work towards that goal.

So I'll leave it there and uh open to questions.

Any questions?

I think uh in the past we've gone around table, just give everyone give a ballpark figure what they think would be acceptable.

So uh we'll start with Mayor Tobias.

Thanks, Chair.

Um I I'm not running for re-election next year, so uh uh it could be higher than nine percent.

But I know I'm only kidding.

Um from my perspective, we've got uh a lot of pressures and uh thanks Scott for laying this out kind of before us because some of them are new.

Um some of them we don't agree with, right?

We'd like to see them not happen like e-com 911, but they're an eventuality.

Uh from what I'm understanding, just for context, uh all the municipalities are down on their revenue for new building.

It's just not happening.

Callwood, even Langford, from what they expected to be taking in uh for this.

And these are things we can do nothing about.

They're market-driven, they're economy-driven and and whatnot.

Um I I tend to think that uh as we had the discussion last year about the boulevard contract, there are big ticket items like capital uh stuff that we're investing in, and sometimes there's savings on that on things that we take on with our strategic plan, but there's also operational savings.

Um and uh, you know, I think it's uh I I applaud council's decision for revisiting uh the boulevard contract, because I think there we've got to say what's good enough.

What is good enough for what we have to pay?

If there are people in our municipality that are choosing between food and electricity, you know, uh on a fixed income, been there for a while.

Um, we do have a responsibility to provide services, but we also have a responsibility to be uh really prudent with our spending.

Um so uh I I I would suggest this year be bold and have staff come back with a minimalist budget.

Uh but if they're looking at nine percent as they stay afloat, and as am I getting that right, Scott?

This is a scale stay afloat, not adding anything new.

Everything's already been looked at kind of in the strategic plan, and that is the nine percent that we're looking at right now yeah I I'd I'd be happy with the nine percent to be honest with you counselor called well thank you yes we seem to be having these discussions every year don't we about double digit incomes and increases and pontificating on ways to solve it uh my understanding actually uh CAO Somerville is there could be some immediate relief from e com coming uh so stay tuned for that sounds like there's good news on the way with that uh that won't won't solve all our problems uh but I'm not actually able to commit to a number tonight without having more information to so I'm not gonna be saying a number counselor levin uh every year i maintain below double digit so below double digit and and you know when you think that it's been nine plus percent it and then the year before it was nine something percent and then the year before that's you know for people who have you just even paid taxes over five years it's like 35 percent more um so what it's it's gonna be a hit either way, but um i'm I I'll I'll just maintain below double digit.

Councillor Rogers uh some some uh questions.

Um so the we talked about the uh casino as a uh reserve fund um source and is probably going to go down to uh predictions what one 1 million seventy uh point seven five, one point seven five million, which is a significant drop.

And and when you consider the um uh uh West Shore Recreation Library Um being very close to that, um we don't have much uh capital to put elsewhere in in uh in capital projects like we used to in the old days.

So that's um and and I guess the next agenda item is the whole review of increased investment in our capital revenues and so on.

And I think we if I recall last year, we were um uh making a decision to invest 100,000 into uh and so in your in your budget lines here were you expecting that we would again invest a hundred thousand in the uh in the capital reserves I would say counselor rogers that we're hopeful that we'll invest enough into our assets that they won't uh depreciate over time um I don't think we're quite there yet and I know that we were attempting to wean ourselves off of um using the casino revenue for parks and recreation and library um so that that we might have to kick that conversation further down the the road with budgeting um the asset management report has some recommendations as it does every year.

And every year we strive to get closer to to what the experts are suggesting we invest into our assets.

Thank you.

And and in your um 9% is that also expecting the that council would uphold its policy to um uh slowly remove the um um the grant funding of the capital library on the taxation so we to remove the grant funding for sorry.

At the moment, the library is pretty much funded by casino.

And there's a policy where the uh the council has has uh said that we would take one percent off and put it on general taxation and uh wean it off the um the casino.

I'm assuming that that nine percent includes the uh council um policy.

Through the chair, I'm just going through our uh casino uh the portion of the the budget here uh related to casino funding.

I'm not seeing GVPL directly.

West Shore, yes, we are weaning ourselves off uh full casino funding or so maybe sorry i stand corrected.

Sorry, we've you're right.

It's one of the two.

So it wasn't so much the library, I think we did the library, it was actually west shore, yeah.

Thank you very much.

Yes, continuing the undertaking uh to to shift away from from casino and uh built into that nine percent as well just to build on your question around asset management we're we're planning to go from the 100 to the 200 the recommendation as you'll hear is to go uh up to five hundred thousand and one hundred thousand dollar increments every year and we're gonna be in year two of that for 26.

Okay thank you so um you know I appreciate the the numbers but um not only did we drop from um you know the revenues, but we also dropped um from DCC contributions this year, right?

So it wasn't just revenue, or are you saying that the revenues that dropped included DCCs from uh development projects?

So DCCs are revenue when the projects undertaken are completed such that we fund them from DCCs.

In the meantime, they sit on our balance sheet as liabilities so they don't impact uh our our operating revenue.

Okay.

All right, thank you.

Um one of the uh police costs um um that I keep raising, and I I think it's gonna happen, are uh police body cameras.

And um is that something that we anticipate is something is it still gonna be federal funded for 2026?

Oh, I don't think it's federally funded for 2026.

Um they're rolling them out right now.

Um we will be paying for them very shortly.

Um I would say that there's there's some administrative cost to the body worn cameras that were unanticipated.

Uh so at the end of a shift, um there's a memory, there's a memory stick in in these cameras that's taken out and it's downloaded, and and so the municipal support employees are doing that kind of work.

So I would say that um we've got enough municipal support um for the officers, but that's an added expense and extra time on on the officer shift as well.

Um hopefully it'll save them on court time.

Um, but on on the day to day it it takes more of their their time and costs the town more money.

Yeah, so we should be ready for that.

Um is do you know if the uh the police are expecting and wish it needing another uh FTE in 2026.

I I don't think so according to our our old-fashioned cops to pop method of determining policing.

We don't expect to need another FTE until 2030.

But uh that that could change as well.

Yes if nothing happens with Bill 44 it might uh be that case.

So so thank you for all this.

I'm inclined to go if you know if the analysis of what uh staff provided I think uh we'll be lucky to be at nine percent and the one thing I don't want to do and and I would uh the other thing I want to be um see though is what the five year projections uh percentage increases would be because i have no intention of loading uh transferring the the load going down real cheap and then putting the load on the next council i have no intention of doing that uh noted and uh appreciate it thank you and i think i don't see counselor makenzie online so i'll i'll be the last um in an ideal world i'm dreaming but it's sorry i am online counselor crowns okay well you go ahead then i'll screen yeah i'll defer to you then please go ahead uh thank you.

There you are um okay so i yeah, I think this is the first time since i've been on council that it hasn't been a double digit as the first kind of number that we've looked at and we've whittled it away to get below double digits.

So in that sense, 9% seems good.

However, as some think of counselor Lemon said, like our perspective has been skewed with this inflation and and things like because 9% is still a lot.

Um but if if staff saying this is like yeah, the bare the bare minimum, um I'm okay with that.

I would also though like to hear about what the other municipalities are looking at because this year it I haven't heard as much.

Um so I don't know if staff are aware of of any of those uh figures out there, but I would also like to keep that into take that into consideration but right now nine percent seems all right um yeah thank you and uh in an ideal world I like to see six percent but I can certainly defend nine percent it's really disappointing like e com that downloading from the provincial and federal governments is really disappointing to me I can't believe it that um everybody every municipality in the province is is not chipping in for that it's really disappointing death and taxes but um certainly the cost a lot of costs um there's no way of getting around it.

I know we can go one by one from items, but pairing a little, you know, a few thousand dollars here and there is not going to make much difference so um uh to the CFO, what's our surpluses like now?

I don't I hate using surpluses to to bring budgets down, but if we have to, uh how what are we looking at?

Thank you, Chair.

And I actually brought up our 2024 financial statements.

So we were at 154 million in accumulated surplus, of which um the unappropriated, sorry, one moment here was around eight and a half, and we did utilize the number escapes me in the hundreds of thousands, the low hundreds to lessen the the increase for 25 uh as part of the budget process in in 2025.

So greater than eight million going into 2025's financial statements, and then we'll see where we land there.

Agreed.

Thank you.

Uh Chair, if it uh pleases you, I've got two motions arising, and uh I'll I'll read them off one by one.

What one of them is I think it would help us uh all out explaining, and I think the public deserves it as well.

Is that staff bring back a report on a percentage uh as they've done here, but easier to understand in graphic, uh, those uh items that have been downloaded to the municipality and how it affects uh you know per household.

I think that that graphic would be very important.

Uh so I'd I'd I'd uh second or I'll motivate a little bit more.

Uh thank you, Chair.

Um, I I think it's it's hard for us to understand uh as things have been moving really rapidly on how much has been downloaded, including some of the housing legislation, any implications from that.

Um we've had to do things, and I'm not saying we didn't have them in our plan, anyways, but we had to do uh the OCP.

Uh we weren't allowed to take that money out of the growing community fund that had to come out of the municipality.

These things have are starting to have an effect, and there's some long-term effects that we haven't even got to appreciate.

Like, okay, if you don't allow parking um uh on site, then where are you parking?

You're you're parking somewhere, some streets are inadequate.

So, what I'm saying, there's a long-term impact to this stuff as well that we don't know yet.

I'm not concerned about that.

What I'm more concerned about is the stuff that we can say, this is new, this is e com 911, this is provincial, here's the background for it if you want.

But what percentage of these tax increases are are provincially uh originated, and and what percent of them uh so there's a good breakdown, and I'm not trying to make things up here, I'm just trying to put it to the public to say, and if you're you know following my logic, I think the provincial government has uncovered a new tax base for themselves, and it is us.

And I think you know, uh making that clear and in not a dramatic way, but just the facts uh of where these things come from, I think we owe it to the public to do that.

And I just would check with staff first if that was a doable thing.

Absolutely doable.

Okay.

Just looking for a second or go ahead, yeah, Cousins.

Yes, I think you're just picking up on that point, and and it's a really good one.

I wonder if also staff could uh give some kind of cost perspective on um like we're seeing with the the uh the building community, the cost of uh construction, the cost of goods, the uh the cost of business from from an inflation, maybe even tariff-driven uh impact on our economy.

So that would be uh you know another way we have to compensate through taxation because that's just the the the impact of global economies.

So I don't know if that's possible, but uh and some kind of indication would be useful.

Um through the chair, that that would be a little more complicated.

Um, you know, I am working on on the RCMP expansion, and um, we're trying to figure that out ourselves uh in a room full of people that work in the construction industry.

So uh local government doesn't always have direct access to those figures, but um we we could see what we could dig up.

You got a and you got a second, or we just need to put that one to vote.

Then I had a second one that was arising as well.

We'll vote on the first motion then.

Uh all those in favor?

Unanimous.

Uh thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Uh the other one is uh we've been up in uh position here, or I have for the past three years, and we've we're trying to come up with solutions for staff to to cut money here, to cut money there.

Why don't we ask staff to come back for for some recommendations on efficiencies for operations, right?

Uh um instead of us coming to the end of the budget, looking at capital projects, which frankly sometimes don't even reduce our budget.

And we spend the majority of our time there, as opposed to empowering our staff to say we need you to be more fiscally responsible.

Are there ways that we can save money and please help us with those recommendations?

Instead of us coming from there, we're not near their their budgets directly.

But I'm just wondering if we would have support as a council to um to empower staff um to to to take a look at what efficiencies might naturally evolve that they would recommend that we support a seconder I wonder if you have to speak to that second that, but I suspect they already have that power I'm not so sure because we've given them direction for projects but I don't know uh uh Scott maybe you can speak to the uh if we've given direction for budgets for operational budgets and for uh operational things um well through the chair uh last year we were given the direction to keep all services equal um which basically means don't don't touch anything um staff are always looking for efficiencies in delivering the same level of service but I think what you're asking is are are there any services that we would recommend be reduced and what would those cost savings be we haven't quite been asked to do that yet any more comments I'll call a question all those in favor unanimous I believe uh Mr.

Lewis your I wonder has staff joined the uh your just a question on on the uh financial planning process uh staff did you get you what you want in terms of us providing uh you with a a sense of percent increase yeah I I think you know um counselor koalowich pointed out a good point with which is until you see everything before you it's really hard to to get pinned down on a tax increase but it does give us um a good direction to get out and get started thank you so next item is i think uh mr oh go ahead this is the review of increased investment and capital um renewal program thank you chair just uh quick introduction uh this is joel adams our deputy director of finance making his uh his debut so thank you, Mayor.

Thank you, Chair, and thank you, committee.

I'm just gonna give a quick uh overview of this report uh which is all around our increased investment in capital, our capital renewal program.

So the uh SERP report, the strategic infrastructure replacement plan report that was received in 2022, identified a set of five recommendations that would increase our investment in capital renewal based on a gap that was identified at the time of about $2.9 million per year.

So as I said, they gave us a set of five recommendations, and this report sets out the progress that council has made in implementing those recommendations and the basically the improvements in the gap that have been uh realized to date and that are forecasted out to the end of the current uh financial plan of 2029.

Uh in general, we have made a lot of progress with our uh renewal investment uh there is still a gap um and we're looking to uh reduce that gap as we go forward um so there's a lot of good information in this report and i'm happy to answer any questions any question uh mayor to buy us go ahead yeah is uh the percentage that you're looking to increase included in the nine percent uh overall um projected tax increase for the town uh through the chair yes it is thank you.

Any further questions?

Well, go ahead uh council rogers so um yeah i'm i'm looking at the analysis and the the recommendations, and uh we had uh indeed contributed uh some casino funds uh towards that hundred thousand.

Um so I'm just trying to understand what uh what will staff be coming to us for the next fiscal year in terms of uh revenue contributions uh either through casino or through taxation or whatever.

How we how we're gonna you know continue to keep that gap go diminishing.

Uh so through the chair, uh each of those five recommendations and how we've implemented them, it breaks out basically, you know, annual increases for uh through taxation, through sewer fees, through casino uh through gas tax and through some of the other um revenue sources.

So there is a plan built into the forecast out to 2029 that increases that investment based on implementing those recommendations.

Uh so for instance the 1% that's added through uh taxation uh expires after 12 years.

Uh so so we're factoring those types of things into the financial planning as we we build out those those forecasts.

Thank you, Joel.

Can someone move the staff recommendation moved by Mayor Tobias?

All second.

Uh all in favor?

Unanimous.

Thank you very much, Joel.

Thank you.

Now, Mr.

Lewards.

Sorry, I jumped the gun there a bit.

Yeah, good to see you.

No problem.

Good to be here.

It's Benjamin Luberts.

I'm the Deputy Director of Engineering and the co-manager of our asset management program alongside with uh Joel Adams.

So I'm here to present a review of our asset management program improvements in the report dated uh November 12th, 2025.

So this review is an assessment of our progress since launching the improvement project in uh 2024.

Next slide.

So I've got a number of slides to go through here, but I've uh I'm gonna keep it short.

I'm gonna keep it brief and moving along kind of as efficiently as I can.

So first up here, View Royal's assets, they do span a multitude of community services, as you can see here, including protective services, recreation, transportation, government, development, environmental, these are all things we have investments in.

Next slide, please.

And along so we've amassed approximately $300 million in our capital assets to provide those community services.

So, and of course, those assets they require maintenance, repair, rehabilitation, and then eventual replacement.

And the amount and frequency of these activities is driven by balancing costs with risk and with service.

So those are the three legs of the stool that we're constantly trying to balance between.

You asked what's good enough.

And I'll just add to this actually to Merit Tobias's question about the boulevard contract.

The answer to that question is within the domain of the asset management framework.

And that's uh I'm gonna talk about in a moment here, which is about our levels of service.

How much service do we really want to provide and what's good enough?

Next slide, please.

So our asset management program meets our obligations as a municipality under section seven of the community charter.

It also fulfills a number of eligibility requirements for external grant programs and also for funding from senior governments.

So our uh asset management program objectives are listed here.

They're very clear.

They are to deliver services aligned with council's vision for the community, optimize assets for the community benefit, maintain sustainable service delivery through proper planning and funding.

We want to enhance transparency in our decision making and support the prioritization of investments.

Next slide, please.

So we've been on a multi-year journey to strengthen our asset management program throughout or practices throughout our organization.

And one of the first pre-project initiatives that our team was involved was to complete a self-assessment of our asset management maturity, and then use those findings to establish a target maturity level.

So very quickly, the light blue is essentially the current state of our maturity level.

I believe the number was something like 1.4 or so on a scale of five.

And then the plan puts into place trying to move towards those enhanced maturity levels year over year.

Next slide, please.

So our asset management strategy provides this roadmap for improving our asset management practices, and it does so by aligning people with our assets, with our information, and with our finances.

So there's four core areas there: people, assets, information, and finances.

And so from that strategy, we use that to present an encore project, which is called our asset management program improvements project.

You've seen now a few times.

I think you deliberated it at your last committee of the whole meeting.

Next slide, please.

And so I'm going to report out on some of the progress that we've made on the deliverables under that project.

So, first, uh, in the area of people, the progress we've made is we have established a multidisciplinary internal working group that meets quarterly and uh and we discuss uh how to support our asset management practices, um, sustainable service delivery, all the various different technicalities of the program.

And we are also striving to enroll both staff and council in asset management training.

And so here's our next steps.

Next slide, please.

And so we're gonna continue to work towards enhancing our culture around service delivery through uh having our staff and council elected officials take part in our asset management training.

And uh, we look forward to continuing that.

Next slide, please.

Uh in the next area is uh assets and our progress here.

The the big uh the big progress is defining our or sorry, establishing levels of service, defining levels of service for all of our asset classes.

And uh, and again, this is uh key to answering any questions that council might deliberate on with regards to how much of a particular service we are comfortable you are comfortable uh providing.

And there's a whole framework and uh methodology to it's to determining that.

Next slide, please.

And so moving forward in the assets category, we're looking forward to presenting to council uh the framework for the levels of service.

We also are very looking for uh very much looking forward to presenting your asset management policy.

Uh, you may or may not remember uh we did develop a draft policy alongside our long term financial plan.

It was a number of years ago, and then it was sort of put off to the side while we continue to enhance our program.

Um, we're definitely at a turning point now uh in our program where that policy will be instrumental and is quite critical to uh aligning our organization, um, getting us all on the same page and giving ourselves a collective mandate with respect to taking care of our assets.

And then, furthermore, we do plan to do an interim up uh update to our asset management strategy.

And then after the levels of service are presented to council, and we have a clear mandate on community levels of service, then we can take that and actually start building our asset management plans, determine all the technical inputs that are required to achieve council's desired outputs.

Next slide, please.

And on to information.

So, with respect to information, we have been integrating our sustainable infrastructure replacement plan, which is our long-term financial plan.

All of that data we've been back integrating that back into our asset management software.

That's been completed.

And then we also just recently completed a internal audit of our asset data system.

Next slide, please.

And our next steps are continue to improve our internal data management practices.

And we'll also be exploring any remaining gaps that we find in our information flows and look forward to incorporating those into the update of our asset management strategy.

Next slide, please.

And getting to the end here under finances.

So, with respect to finances, we continue to incorporate, as Mr.

Adams has said here, the recommendations of the sustainable infrastructure replacement plan into staff's recommendations as part of the five year, so the short short term or the immediate financial plan.

Next slide, please.

And looking forward, this is something that of course we will continue to advocate for.

And uh, and as well, we also look forward to doing an update to our long term financial plan.

Uh right now, it uh was modeled as a 100 year forecasted plan.

It really looked way, way, way far up to make sure that we were at least heading in the right direction.

The next iteration of that plan will very much likely focus in on to the next 20 years and start to get some more details in terms of what's the high priority uh replacement and focus areas.

Next slide.

And uh that concludes my presentation, and I'm happy to answer any questions.

Thank you, Mr.

Thanks.

Liberts.

Any questions, Mayor DeBias?

Uh Chair Benny, you ready for a speed round?

They're all related to uh to asset management.

Uh so who defines the asset service levels?

Who defines the asset service levels?

Okay, I'll try to be uh succinct but brief.

Uh so service levels are determined of two different types.

One is called community or customer service levels, those are determined by the community as was represented by yourselves.

Then the other service level is called technical service levels, right?

And so that's all the stuff that you really don't have to worry about because you hire professionals to do so.

We hire professionals as well on our behalf to do so.

Um, so it's really driven though by those community service levels.

And and uh related directly to that is what's the public's direct role in setting those community service levels.

Um, what role do they have?

Yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely.

Yeah, so our official community plan, uh, that's where we as an organization really set out what are the objectives of this community.

Um, beyond that, uh, also just through active feedback that we receive.

I know we're going to be doing a community satisfaction survey.

Uh, all the various different surveys that we do in the engineering department, we're undertaking our transportation master plan update.

Um, that one obviously transportation is actually our largest asset portfolio, is our transportation assets, 120 million or so.

Um, and so through community feedback, we glean from them what's important, and then we take that and and translate it into um what are the technical inputs to achieve those outputs.

Uh new RCMP building.

Excellent, Ben.

This is not a pass for you all, by the way.

So, how does that relate to our asset management?

Yeah, so that's a very good question because now we're we're right on the uh the boundary or the fringe of the scope of the asset management program.

So um we actually deliberate this within the internal working group.

So providing policing services is a service that our municipality contributes funding towards.

However, we are not the owner of the asset.

So it's a completely other process.

Um, and in fact, I, as an asset management champion, would recommend anybody who is uh from View Royal that has a part to play in the RCMP uh business to advocate for responsible asset management at that table.

Yes, exactly.

But we are owners of the building.

Sorry?

We are owners of the building.

Yeah, we're part owners, but we are not uh direct and sole owners.

So maybe in the future it would be uh an asset management get together between Callwood Langford and us to discuss that.

Yeah, and I and I I must be careful not to step out of my lane as I am just the deputy director of venture.

Oh, take a risk.

And so uh yeah, I I would probably defer to our CAO so on the existing building, the 1960s building and the 1990s building, um asset investment is really driven by the facilities manager um of the RCMP building.

And there is a reserve set up for it, and the three municipalities get together and decide which projects they will do.

I will say that over the last year or two, um, with the impending demolition of the 1960s building, we've been very careful not to invest too much into that side.

Um there's a limited reserve established for maintaining the 1990s building.

And then of course going forward, this is where it gets really complicated.

The CRD will own the asset.

So we'll have to work with the CRD to ensure that the asset's being maintained over the 25 years until we regain control of the asset.

Complicated, probably deserves its own report, which no, no, no, it's it's good because I I think it it helps us appreciate what are the boundaries of asset management, particularly in something co-owned.

And I and I believe uh Wantifica Rec is their own uh thing that kind of dovetails into this, so we can get appreciation for it as well.

Uh bridges.

What uh role do bridges have that that we control for asset management?

Yeah, uh so the town owns a number of bridges, solely own a number of bridges.

Um, however, our most expensive bridge is actually co-owned with the district of Sainage.

So I actually used to work for the district of Saint, and we have a very good working relationship with them, and so we are working with them to make sure that that asset is maintained properly and managed properly.

Okay.

Uh natural assets.

So natural assets is uh something that we that we acknowledge within our asset management program.

Uh it is an emerging field of practice.

Um there's growing resources across BC.

Um, essentially natural assets, natural asset management.

The principle behind it is is that natural assets provide a service to the town that otherwise would have to be provided through a engineered or constructed asset that would have an equivalent cost to it.

So when you look at it in sort of that negative or that reverse way, then you can appreciate how important it is to invest into your natural assets.

Do we have a plan as part of our asset management program?

So uh we we don't have a plan per se.

We have it within our scope and our frame of our program.

Um, but capacity is I'm gonna say one limiting factor um to to how much we can do.

But this goes back to that maturity level.

So natural assets would be one of those points on that kind of spider graph.

Um, and we can set that target if natural asset management is something that is a high objective, a high priority for us.

It's just a matter of when we update our strategy, we identify that, and then we take look at what resource sources are required to accomplish that.

Data.

And the question?

Yeah.

Data, how does that fit into asset management?

Probably our one of our most important things that we have is data records, keeping financials.

Absolutely.

Yeah, so if if you remember the in the past slide, a number of slides, those four areas, key areas, information is one of the core elemental areas of the framework.

So that would be all of our data.

That is a technical level of service, actually.

So if we're going to look at service levels, um, what I would say is data is crucial.

It's imperative that we have robust and sophisticated data systems that match or are appropriate for the outputs, right?

The levels of service that the community is is requiring asking.

Thank you.

Knowledge.

Knowledge.

Thank you.

Uh so knowledge is within the people uh sector of the framework.

Uh it's critical.

And building culture is part of that.

So with knowledge with any field of area, once you learn a little bit more, you appreciate just how much more there is to learn, how detailed and complicated it can be.

And then you appreciate people who do know what they're talking about.

And we build trust and and the knowledge comes hand in hand with that.

Last one public trust.

All of this is so the asset management framework that we develop is is at its core sustainable service delivery.

So at its core is building that trust with the public to know that we're managing their assets and resources.

Good, you passed, Ben.

No, I and I did this for as as you were talking, kind of making notes.

And you know, uh, I think council and myself have kicked around the idea.

Well, we can't really afford uh community satisfaction survey.

It's critical, absolutely critical.

And we haven't looked at a holistic method of strategic planning.

Like, you know, community satisfaction, asset management, and not looking at all of these other things as disseparate pieces.

They're part of the same thing, right?

They're actually part of the core part of asset management, everything from people to knowledge to data to access, it's all part of the same thing.

And I think we've got things that are good in pieces, but we're looking at them disapparately and not looking up at them as the total service we provide to the community.

Um, so my my only point in doing this is that I think we needed to do a better job in not a strategic plan, but strategic planning.

Like how do we as a council go through a cycle?

We do it for budget, right?

We do it for the election, but we don't have a really good plan where we've got public input at our fingertips.

We've got an asset management plan.

We know what's coming up.

Um, and and just because we we don't want to see it all at once, and we're handling things.

So, Mr.

Chair, the reason why I'm bringing this up is I think there's some things that are packaged in here that are important for us, and I'm just learning after a full term now how they actually fit together, and they're part of a plan for us.

Um, but I'll give some more thought to it.

And I think eventually we'll get there.

But I think there's there is a we used to call call it in the military a battle rhythm, right?

There is a battle rhythm of how we go through annual planning.

And if we take one thing out like um community satisfaction, then we're guessing.

We're guessing what the public wants, or if the boulevards are good enough, or whether they want arts, more arts or or less arts, or more buses.

Um and so it puts us at a greater distance that we're having to guess what people people's input are.

But thank you, Chair for and uh counselors, for uh tolerating my questioning.

Counselor Rogers?

Um I agree with Mayor Tobias.

Yes, thanks.

Um, natural assets is something that we um really should be putting in this this plan.

Uh I don't see it in the star chart in any way.

Um, so that would be helpful to um um you know for our $25,000 that we're going to invest out of casino funding for this next fiscal year, that would be uh definitely one of those takeaways because either um uh we understand and uh appreciate the natural assets, then we don't have to you know go to the enormous expense of building those natural assets.

And I think the the forest urban um strategy is a good example of the tree canopy.

You know, we can take it all out, but then how are we gonna build it back up to 40%?

You know, unless we really understand and and show those natural assets.

And what really concerned me is that we had to take down out the notice and so forth, the OCP to put in the notice about the transportation master plan.

The other end, natural asset is the website.

We couldn't do both on one screen.

And I think that that is part of that service delivery when we literally have to rob Peter to pay Paul, rob OCP to give notice the transportation.

So that that's an aspect.

Um GIS.

You know, we uh in the years we've been um hiring uh summer students and so forth to really boost the GIS data.

Where's that on the star chart?

You know, that you know, the the the that I call it a star chart where you have the numbers from one to five.

Where's where's GIS?

Uh so it's part of the data piece.

Uh uh maintaining our asset registry is paramount to the program.

And um there's a field there which is asset data.

So GIS is just one small.

So the knowledge is being able to effectively be able to data mine that so that you know we know uh how many lots, how many are uh smooth and how many aren't, right?

Okay, good.

So how are we going to be able to, you know, in this graph analysis, we've got the current maturity, we've got the target and the forecast, how we're gonna get there.

Do we weight ourselves?

How do you weight you know that we've actually managed to succeed in going from one to a five?

Uh through the chair.

So this process is actually developed by FCM.

Uh it's a common methodology that's used by municipalities across the uh uh country.

So there's a whole guidebook to it that I'd be happy to go through with anybody.

This is a $25,000 investment that we know that's coming from the casino.

Am I right?

That's what's that's for it to carry on with this project.

And next fiscal year is $25,000.

Uh so we have actually been successful in having almost uh the almost the entire uh program expenses covered by grants.

So we'll continue to pursue grants for that uh endeavor, and and the grant funders are actually keen on uh asset management related projects.

Okay, so when I was looking at the um um the report, the project it suggested casino funding, but I'm glad to hear it's grants.

Well done.

Uh yes, and of course, grants are subject to the grant approvers, and so if the grant uh is not accepted, then uh the funding source would be casino.

Thank you.

You you mentioned um asset management training for council members.

What what would that entail?

Uh so usually with respect in honor of people's time and capacity, the training sessions tend to be a self-directed training session.

There's a number that I'm aware of right now that are available for very, very low cost, if not for free.

Having us local officials trained in asset management is, as you can imagine, one of the most important cultural aspects to asset management within an organization.

So we do have an offering, something that I can administer, and I'd be happy to show that to you.

Okay, thank you.

Also, our Climate Action Committee, I know they're very keen on the natural assets uh uh inventory.

I know that's something they brought up to us many times.

So I think that's very important.

So I think that's a that's a very important thing, especially with climate um the changes to climate.

So so great.

Thank you for your report.

You're very welcome.

Anything else?

Thank you.

Oh, can I get a recommendation?

Yeah, move move by Councillor Rogers, seconded by Councillor Lemmon.

All those in favor?

Unanimous.

Thank you.

Um lead uh off with just this that um I had asked staff to prepare this to give us some more information because uh of course the uh CRD Art Service is a is going through an AAP now.

There's lots of things in our current funding that it covers.

There's lots of things in the AAP.

My intent here is to have a conversation about us being informed about what those things are and what they are not.

The service right now is unfunded, we're not paying anything for it.

I'm not sure when we will be paying for it or exactly how much that will be.

I would assume, however, after sitting during the discussions, the CRD voted for this, uh, that service will define itself.

That service, there was enough discussion about including a future West Shore um uh uh you know arts facility, even though it's not part of a budget, it's not part of a plan yet.

It's still very formative.

We're just you know organizing right now to get it approved, to get funding to define it a little bit more.

Um so we've got one expense right now that we've already approved.

That's not the intent of bringing that into discussion right now.

The other one is formative that may be coming before the end of the fiscal year once the AAP is done.

What I need from, I think council is, you know, a qu a series of questions to ask CRD and to ask the arts council what is going to happen with the amount that we're paying now?

Because I can assure you, once we've uh established the service, it will be everybody on there that is saying, why are we paying for this?

Why isn't everybody paying for this?

Right?

Is that part of the service now and not part of that?

The other thing I don't want to do is have us make decisions about something that we don't know yet.

What I would love to come out of this with is a series of questions that we have to so I can go back to CRD or any concerns that we might have, like for clarity.

Thanks, Chairman.

Well, I'd like to thank uh our CAO and our CFO and Mayor Tobias for providing me with a lot of valuable information this week because I've had painters and sculptors saying, why are you putting money in brick and mortar?

Uh you know, why don't we um why aren't we funding the uh Moss Street painting, for example, things like that.

But I try to explain to people once you have a brick and mortar building, you can display paintings and sculptures and you can do dance and all other kinds of things.

So, anyways, with that, I'll turn it over to uh Mr.

You making a report, I believe.

I do have a brief uh introduction for uh the benefit of the public and and council.

So uh thank you, Chair.

Uh in October, the CRD board approved uh a new arts service called the Performing Arts Facilities Service and provided staff with the estimated cost and how the new service will work in conjunction with the existing arts grants service.

They are not linked and have no impact on one another.

The new facilities service carries with it an estimated initial cost of $65,000 per year and will fund the three existing theaters with regional impact, those being the Royal, the McPherson, and the Mary Windspear.

It will also be used to fund planning grants for a future regional facility, uh, the cost of which will be borne by taxpayers via the CRD requisition, and the continued financial pressures uh facing the town staff feel it is appropriate to provide counsel with the opportunity to confirm their continued support of funding the existing arts grants service at the highest level as opposed to returning uh to tier two, uh, in addition to funding the incoming arts facility service.

And my understanding is that is expected to hit uh our budget in 2027.

And with that, I'll turn it back to you.

And I do have a question if no one else does.

The uh Mary Winspear, I mean, it's in Sydney and it's a Charlie White Theater.

So um I I thought that Sydney paid for that, but it's actually part of the CRD service.

Okay.

It will be part of the new service.

Yeah.

Councilor Rogers.

Yeah, so thank you.

Um so I I hear you say then the uh the and and Mayor Tobias, the um the CRD approved a uh funding uh that's the and that's what's going before the art uh alternate approval process is strictly for the physical aspects of the McPherson on the Royal.

Okay.

One of the interesting things when we had that discussion uh a number of years ago when uh Mayor Alto was the uh the chair of the um that committee, we never we never uh got as far as what the series done so far, was that um apparently there are some um ownership aspects of the royal and McPherson.

So um, and what stopped it dead in the tracks was municipalities like Oak Bay's, Stanich, Victoria realizing that they have to share the ownership of those buildings, assets as well.

And uh that's when the the uh uh the contracts for those buildings became problematic and they dropped it.

It has a solution been worked out uh now.

Yeah, I think the uh as assets, um and I think one of them remains with Victoria, and one is CRD.

I can't remember for the life of me which is which.

Um, however, the intent is part of this, they will all become CRD assets, right?

So they all be owned by CRD at that point, which makes governance because that was a nightmare as well, and not just for what's going on in the arts facility, but the maintenance of the arts facility itself, who pays for it, asset management, all of that type of stuff.

So I I think I ideally this is the best move for everybody that you know, because there was opposition of some municipalities not paying in, others that were contributing, perhaps some that are overcontributing, uh I I I think now they can look at it as a balanced um uh investment for a strategy for the arts going forward.

So so I think that that have all the concerns have been resolved?

No, they have not.

But I think through that shared governance, I think they're getting closer to it.

You see, that and that's what um I'm now very curious and what they uh what's actually before the public in the alternate approval process and you know how how broad is it, how specific is it, um, you know, how much it uh uh it relates to um a regional equitable shared funding for the programs of the arts commission.