Committee of the Whole

Hello everybody.

I'll call the uh committee of the whole meeting to order.

Um I'm acting as uh chair.

We rotate this uh position every committee of the whole meeting.

Um so it's a pleasure to uh do that tonight.

Um the I I should read uh the statement is um uh we recognize the Languankan speaking people known today as the Squamout Nations and the Songheas Nations, and that their historic connections to this land continues to this day.

Uh this evening we will be uh hearing from the public during the public participation and question period portions of the agenda.

Uh, from members in the audience, the council chambers is a safe, respectful, inclusive space.

All members of the audience are asked to refrain from clapping, cheering, or opening and expressing your um opposing opinions when others are speaking or when they've done speaking.

When it is your turn to speak, uh talk, do not speak disrespectfully about anyone else, including counsel and staff.

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Do not speak or act in an aggressive, bullying or harassing manner.

Council wants to hear the views of those participating in the meeting in an open and impartial forum.

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Scan the QR code or type in the URL and through the form that pops up, type in your name or your comments or questions to be read aloud at the appropriate time by a member of our webcast team.

You will need to provide your name, street name on the form if you are speaking in the council chambers.

Public participation comments are limited to five minutes for each speaker and must be related to the items on the agenda.

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So having read that, I wonder if I can have a motion to approve the agenda.

Second.

Okay, first and seconded um Ron and Jerry all those in favor?

Against carried um may have a motion to adopt the minutes of July the 8th.

So moved.

Second.

Thank you.

Moved and seconded Alison and Jerry.

All those in favor?

Against carried thank you.

Okay.

So if there's anyone in the audience that wishes to speak to Madison the agenda please come forward.

Okay, thank you.

Um Carl, do we have any um individuals wishing to speak in the on um the webcast?

Chair, we have no messages on the board this evening.

Thank you.

Um, would you like to come forward and give us a presentation?

Um petitions and delegations, we have two.

Uh Inspector Rose um from the RCMP.

Thank you, Chair, uh, your worship and council, uh, members of the public and the gallery.

Uh thank you.

Uh thank you for having me this evening.

Um what I'd like to do is provide an overview of some of the uh opportunities for public engagement that the detachment has had in the past couple of months, and then provide an overview of some of the crime data that uh that we've collected uh since our last report at the uh committee of the whole.

I'm certainly then available and uh um anticipating questions regarding either that data or other uh community uh policing or community safety uh matters from uh from council.

Uh so first off, I will speak to some of the opportunities for public engagement that we've had and we have upcoming.

Uh the first of all is a bit of a plug for our uh RCMP uh Cops for Cancer Gala, uh which you may have seen some advertising on, but we are again this year hosting a gala up at uh the West and Bear Mountain on October the 2nd.

And if you haven't booked a uh seat or a table at that event, we'd certainly appreciate you coming out and participating in uh that worthwhile event as a fundraiser for the Cops for Cancer Riders, of which I have the pleasure of presenting a jersey to one of those riders that's representing the West Shore Detachment this coming Friday.

If you need more information on that event, you can reach out to the detachment and either ask for myself or our community policing section.

As far as other outreach so far in the past uh month or two, on August 20th, uh our Indigenous and Community Policing Unit actually had some youth from School District 62's Game Ready program out on our uh Lachez Spirit canoe uh paddling for the day and building connections with our uh school liaison officers as we got ready for the upcoming school year.

As has been well publicized already, we do have our school liaison officers back in the school district 62 uh schools, and you've probably also seen them in the past couple of weeks in the school zones.

Uh we tried to make a very concerted effort in those first couple of weeks to set the stage for the upcoming school year to make it safe, of course, for all of our young ones that are attending um schools and or playgrounds and traversing or walking to and from.

Um we've had a fair bit of back to school engagement through our social media feeds, including some mental health tips for youth and back to school driver safety regarding slowing down stopping for bus drivers.

And the mental health tips were actually developed in partnership with the Pacific Family Services Center, who we work with to offer some mobile youth services.

On September 22nd, coming up, we have another canoe trip plan with the Lachez Spirit and some employees from School District 62 that will partner with our Indigenous Policing Unit and Elder from a local nation in honor of Orange Shirt Day and National Reconciliation Day.

So that's coming up on the 22nd.

We've also just recently, and the I believe the media uh release went out today.

Uh, we did some proactive bike, e-bike and e-scooter enforcement uh and education last week uh in downtown Langford.

Um certainly there's been, and the nice weather tends to attract that, but there's been some challenges between e-scooters, e-bikes, and pedestrians.

Uh, we're not talking about necessarily on the Galloping Goose Trail, which is designated and zoned for that purpose, but on regular sidewalks.

And so we took the opportunity to do some education, and we'll be moving that around the West Shore accordingly in the coming months uh with some education efforts in uh in the other large communities, including View Royal.

Um, we've also done uh some preventative education regarding home security uh while people are on vacation.

Not to drink and operate boats or vessels was a campaign we recently completed.

And again, a bit of another plug, but we're also accepting speed watch applications right now for anybody that wants to get engaged in ongoing speed deterrence efforts throughout the West Shore.

Some traffic highlights in View Royal specifically.

Collisions in View Royal.

And you'll hear in a shortly that the number across the West Shore has definitely increased.

In August alone, in fact, there were 100 collisions across the West Shore, which is quite a bit higher than what we've seen in the past.

In fact, about 14% higher in the month of August compared to last year.

18 of those, as mentioned, were in View Royal.

And we have done some proactive enforcement here, but I certainly wanted to draw attention to enforcement we did at the Chilco and Six Mile area just on August 27th and 28th.

I know that that's been a site of reports of unsafe driving behaviors.

So we had been there just at the end of the month.

A couple of files of interest.

Um, again, just to give you a snapshot, not an uh a lengthy or all-inclusive list of files that we've attended, but give you an idea of what we have encountered.

On August 1st, uh officers attended and completed the high risk takedown of a mental health uh client at the Victoria General Hospital after uh that subject of complaint was reported to be in possession of a firearm.

Uh fortunately, that male was apprehended without any issue, and no firearm was in fact located.

Uh, on August 6th, another very public event uh in View Royal when we closed a portion of um the road after we received a bomb threat outside of a local business.

Um, we had to, of course, treat it as real until we proved otherwise.

So our explosive disposal unit attended and subsequently examined uh that suspicious package and determined that it uh wasn't explosive material.

And we did certainly update the public as that matter was unfolding.

On August 7th, we had a report of a male running around Thetis Lake, in fact, lighting fires.

Again, another one that hit the news.

And that subject of complaint was identified and issued a violation ticket under the Wildfire Act.

On August 12th, we received a report of a female at Thetis Lake who had been approached by another male pedestrian.

And when she didn't engage with him, uh there was an attempt at physical contact between the two.

And that matter remains under investigation as we attempt to identify uh that subject of the complaint.

On August 20th, uh there was a three-vehicle collision on the Helmigan Road on ramp, and uh the suspect vehicle actually fled the scene instead of remaining and exchanging information and ensuring the well-being of the other occupants.

Uh that file remains under investigation as we attempt to locate uh and identify the driver of that fleeing vehicle.

On August 25th, a uh vehicle was reported as driving without a front right tire, believe it or not.

Uh I think that presents as a challenge on a good day uh to drive three wheels.

Um, that vehicle was obviously located here uh in View Royal, and uh the driver found to be impaired.

So an immediate roadside prohibition was issued for 90 days and the vehicle impounded for 30.

Um, I'd like to take the opportunity on that file just to note that that's the direct consequence or result of a call to the police by members of the public.

Um, if the public sees something on the highway uh that appears to be a motor vehicle at contravention or a contravention of the law and they report that straight to the police, we have the opportunity to catch the person in real time, you know, in close proximity to the scene or that event.

And so for the public listening, I would ask that if you're driving, if you're sitting in traffic, if you observe what you believe to be contraventions and they're egregious enough to give you concern about other motors' safety on the highway, please call the non-emergency line and report that.

I know that some uh community members do like to reach out to their elected officials with these types of calls, but unfortunately it only then makes it to the police after the fact.

And so following up and identifying those priorities involved is a little more challenging.

Uh so I would certainly implore complainants to contact us direct if uh if at all possible.

Um with that, I'll jump over to uh the most recent file, uh, which was the tragic drowning at uh Thetis Lake on September 4th.

Um there was a non-Canadian citizen uh here visiting and unfortunately struggled in the water and subsequently uh drowned.

But um fortunately for the family, um we were able to recover the deceased and provide some closure on that matter.

With that, that sort of concludes the uh the highlights of the files I wanted to bring to your attention to give you uh a sense of the vast types of calls for service that we do uh handle here on um on the West Shore, and specifically at Vie Royal.

And I'll move into covering off some of the uh crime statistics briefly uh that speak to the annual performance plan and those performance objectives that uh our municipalities set for us at the beginning of the year.

Uh the data I'm about to give is inclusive of the period January 1st to August 31st, so the end of August.

In total, there were 2,223 files or calls for service reported from View Royal to the detachment during that period, and that represents just under a 4.5% decrease over the same period last year.

When we look at which of those offenses were founded, there was about a 7.5% decrease as well.

So overall, a bit of a lowered demand on police services.

If we speak specifically about violent crime, there were 109 founded offenses, which is 11% lower than the same period last year.

The most common of those violent offenses reported include common assault, uttering threats, and harassing communications.

From a property crime perspective, there were 198 founded occurrences, which is an 18% decrease in overall property crime reported during the same period or compared to the same period last year.

The most common offenses included mischief, theft under $5,000, and shoplifting, which we continue to encounter throughout the West Shore, unfortunately, as economic times become more and more challenging.

Unfortunately, there are folks that resort to theft.

We do break out two sites on or in View Royal that tend to account for a few more files, that being, of course, the hospital and the casino, just so we can separate that out from View Royal as a whole.

The Elements Casino had 52 calls for service during the period, which is no change, the exact same number from the same period last year.

And Victoria General had 177 calls for service, which again had no change.

It's the exact same number from the same period last year.

So no substantive change there.

When we speak about mental health-related files, 46 of the total number of files in View Royal occurred at the hospital.

46, which is just shy of a 40% increase of mental health-related calls at the hospital.

So those are either patients that made their way to the hospital or people presenting at the hospital with some type of mental health element that's beyond the capacity of the hospital staff to address.

And so they contacted the detachment for police officers to attend and provide assistance.

Obviously, quite a bit smaller.

So View Royal as the community is pretty much on par, a slight increase, whereas the hospital has seen a substantial increase.

Of all mental health calls on the West Shore, View Royal accounted for 12.5% of those.

The last report that I did here, View Royal accounted for 12%.

So pretty much again on par.

And I would mention that View Royal as a whole contributes to the West Shore about 11% of our complement.

So as it relates to mental health calls, we're pretty much on par, which has also traditionally been the case for our overall call volume as well.

With that, that provides a fairly high level snapshot of some of the events that we've encountered over the past uh little while, including the crime trends that relate to those uh priority topics that were identified by council.

Uh with that, I'll turn it back to uh you as the chair, uh, councillor Rogers, for any questions.

Thank you very much.

Uh Councilor Lemon.

Thank you.

Uh thank you, Inspector.

You mentioned that uh the school liaison officers were back in school district 62 schools.

V Royal schools are in 61.

I misspoke.

Uh 62 would be um the Langford schools.

Right.

Uh 61, of course, is the V Royal Schools, Victoria and Sands.

So are they back in?

They are back in 61 as well.

Super my apologies.

Okay, no, no, thank you.

Sorry, can I just make a matching?

All right.

Thank you.

Uh yeah.

Thanks for your presentation.

Uh a couple of traffic-related questions.

First, do you we've had uh an increase in collisions.

I'm just wondering one what any indication of why there's been an increase and where in View Royal is there any specific areas where in View Rawl where the collisions are occurring?

And my last question is should you see a potentially drunk driver or something and you pick up your cell phone and in contact while you're driving?

Do you get a pass for for those infractions or uh um curious?

I'll address that one first.

Ideally, if you want to make a report uh and you're driving, you'd pull over to the right side of the road um and initiate that phone call.

Uh you wouldn't necessarily be ticketed or any enforcement action taken against the caller if they were calling 911 to report an emergency.

In fact, the police dispatcher is likely or the e comm 911 operator is going to ask you details about the vehicle and what's occurring in front of you.

So it is anticipated that you may be using your electronic device.

If there are any trends on or in View Royal and share those back through either the director of engineering or the CAO.

And as far as why, I would that's anecdotal, but I would suggest distracted driving.

Uh the use and abuse of electronic devices, namely cell phones, while people are driving is prolific.

And so a lot of these collisions aren't substantial injury crashes, but they are fender benders, rare enders, side swipes, you know, failing to yield at intersections, which is commonly because the driver is looking at a text, trying to send a text, trying to talk without their hands free.

Thank you.

Appreciate that.

Thanks.

Yeah, very sad to hear about the young man who passed at Theta Slate.

I was wondering since my time in on the council, I think it was last year, there was another incident that we had there, and there's been a few near misses as well.

So I was just wondering if you had insight into whether these numbers that we're seeing are particularly high for the area.

And is there any contributing factors that you might be taking up with the CRD to address to hopefully prevent this in the future?

Certainly, signage and education um would be the responsibility of parks and the CRD, uh, not the police directly.

Um, I'm familiar with the the one prior case that you've mentioned.

Uh I would say that comparing the incident and the circumstances of that um tragic event as well with this one, there isn't anything really in common between the two.

Um we simply have occasions where um swimmers or persons may have overestimated, you know, their ability to traverse the distance that they were working on uh or working through education.

I mean, the basic education again around swimming uh should be, you know, only swim where you are comfortable, the distance that you're comfortable traversing, wearing a uh flotation device.

If you're not a strong swimmer, uh, if you're on a stand-up paddle board or um, you know, in a um kayak, having that personal flotation device, having a whistle, uh, and knowing your own limitations really are the key pieces of education.

Um, I mean, both are tragic.

Uh, and I I don't want in any way to make it sound like I'm assigning any type of blame.

Um it's just the general public needs to be aware that if you're going to go swimming, it is one of those activities that can be dangerous, and you really need to reflect on your own uh limitations before engaging in it.

No.

Any other comments?

Thank you very much, Inspector.

Very helpful and very informative as always.

Thank you.

Take care.

We'll see you next time.

Okay.

Uh under uh petitions, we also have Ms.

Underwood from the South Island Farmers Institute.

If you'd like to come forward, please.

Good evening, everyone.

Can you hear me okay?

Perfect.

Um I do have a presentation here.

Is it possible to pop it up?

Fantastic.

Uh my name's Katie.

I'm the president of the South Island Farmers Institute.

We are a new organization.

We had our Impetus meeting April of 2023 and became officially recognized by the Ministry of Agriculture in July of 2023.

So we're just a little over two years old.

Next slide, please.

So you can see here we are a phenomenal group of food producers, growers on Southern Vancouver Island who work to improve land stewardship and food security in our community.

And what we really found when we had our big meeting before we were even official, we reached out to our local producers and asked what they really wanted.

And what we heard was opportunities for connection, and they wanted to learn from one another.

So we ran with that and we built a framework for what we'd like to be able to offer.

Next slide, please.

We are compiled of a whole bunch of different producing commercial growers on South Island.

We also do have a few members that are outside our area.

We have a couple folks on the mainland who just really wanted to know what was going on with our education.

And we also offer a membership for agricultural community supporters.

And this could be anything from nonprofits, municipalities, home growers, people who just really want to keep their finger on the pulse to figure out where they fit, where they could get involved.

And our membership fee is only $25 a year.

So I think it just makes them feel pretty good about giving us a little bit of money, which is really great.

Next slide, please.

And so you can see here we are really diverse.

Myself, I'm a small scale producer, really close to the border of View Royal.

Actually, I'm leasing land at Prospect Lake in Burnside in Saanich.

And I really do recognize that our agricultural context is quite broad here in the CRD.

So I'm a certified organic producer, tenant farmer, and at these meetings that we host in educational opportunities, we get to sit down with landowning farmers, conventional growers, organizations, home growers, landowners, and it's just a really wonderful diversity of folks that have become involved.

Next slide, please.

So one of our big mandates under the Farmers and Women's Institute Act is that we act as a conduit from our local producers directly to the Ministry of Agriculture.

And that's something that has been legislated for over 150 years.

Some farmers' institutes are over 150 years old.

And we are able to advocate for what our growers need in order to continue to run their businesses and contribute to the economic and the success of the population that eats.

Next slide, please.

So we've been really fortunate to partner with some really great organizations.

I approached the Peninsula and Agricultural Peninsula and Area Agriculture Commission and asked for a little bit of seed money to start this initiative.

And they gave us a little bit of money to host our meeting at the Sandwich Fairgrounds for which 50 people showed up.

So that was really great.

Since then, you can see we've grown a lot of community partners with some really great organizations, and we also do get some grant and aid support from municipalities as well which is why I'm here today to just acquaint myself to you guys and you guys to me because we will love we'd love to approach when the time permits for a little bit of Grandinade money.

I do acknowledge that there's not a lot of agricultural land left in View Royal but you guys have a lot of eaters and I know a View Royal folks really do love good food.

So that's what we can provide even though there's not a lot of egg land there's still a lot of food that is eaten here.

Next slide, please.

So in the first 18 months, we've run quite a bit of learning opportunities.

You can see it's a little bit of an older slide here.

Next slide.

So my favorite piece that we have is called our sustainers meeting.

And this one is really exciting in the winter time, starting in October.

We welcome a food producer that's been farming some for decades, some for generations with their family to come and meet with us on a monthly basis and share their successes, their challenges, and their family history.

And that's a really fulfilling meeting that we have because there are so many factors that affect not only someone like Terry Mitchell, but also myself.

So both of us have to deal with climate change.

We all need to use water, and we all hate Canada geese.

So that unites us quite a bit.

And then we also welcome someone who's an expert in their field on certain topics of regional concern.

So we've had folks from the Ministry, not the Ministry of Finance, uh BC Assessment come talk to us about the tax threshold.

We've had people come and chat about bulk buying, applying biosolids on farmland.

And so that's been really, really good.

I have to kick everybody out at 10 o'clock because it's time for me to go to bed.

But it's it's really great.

People want to stick around for quite some time.

So that's been lovely.

Next slide, please.

The Innovation Series is a series of summer field trips that we do.

So uh feedback from producers was that they really wanted to go visit other people's farms and businesses.

So we have a picture here that's us at Applied Bionomics, which is up in North Saanich, and they grow uh biologically controlled bugs, essentially, the good bugs, which help us to combat the not so great bugs.

So that's been really really, really eye opening.

We were also really fortunate to get to go to the Center for Plant Disease Control, which is on the Pat Bay Highway.

Pretty neat in there, and all the renovations.

I'm looking forward to going back once they're finished.

Next slide, please.

We also have our business series, which we run in the wintertime, crunching numbers, talking about our responsibilities with the CRA.

What the heck does my insurance cover, spreadsheets, cost of production?

That's been really great.

We offer that often as a hybrid series.

So sometimes they're online and sometimes they are in person, depending on what our local facilitor really wants to do.

Sometimes it's easier to do it online because then they can show their computer screens.

So that's been great.

And next slide, please.

We also wanted to relaunch Farmer to Farmer.

So farmer to farmer last had its conference day in 2019, 2018, pardon me, which was a conference day at the Sandwich Fairgrounds.

And we've decided to make it an entire week.

So next slide, please.

And what that week entails is we have field trips for four of those days where we go to again more farms and learn about really neat things that are going on there.

It's a slower time of year, so we get to get a little bit more technical and see the bare bones of things.

So here we went to Rake and Radish Farm, which has solar panels on the property there which help power the farm.

Tons of different things, topics that are membership driven.

So our members say that this is really what they want, and or producers that they want to go and visit.

And then we find a way to make that work for all the for all the folks.

Next slide, please.

And then on the Thursday, we host the Farmer to Farmer Conference Inside.

And again, workshops, opportunities to connect, lunchtime roundtables.

One year we held a municipal planner.

We have an after party that's sponsored by our islands Organic Producers Association.

And everybody's welcome.

We enjoy mocktails and we do a pub quiz style for everybody to wrap down at the end of the day, which has been really delightful.

Next slide, please.

And so what's been happening for 2025?

We have a tool share network.

We're working on growing our member benefits and bulk purchasing to see what members want to be purchasing together to make things either accessible coming over from the mainland or just cheaper in general for buying in bulk.

Next slide, please.

How can you support?

So obviously, direct funding is really advantageous for us.

It allows us to continue to operate these really great opportunities to support our local food producers because we didn't we did acknowledge that there was a gap there.

There's a lot of uh organizations that are really keen on food and handling the food after it's been grown, but we need to be able to nurture our producers.

So that's what we're doing here.

And next slide.

So other ideas?

How does your um how else can your local municipality help support the farmers institute so there's some suggestions there and I think the next slide is my thank you slide so I'm happy to answer any questions that you might have I know that's a lot of information really quick but thank you for listening.

Questions thank you and thank you for the presentation and thank you for being a farmer um because I like to eat um I'm just wondering does the institute get involved with uh helping establish farmers markets or ways to uh market your produce at all it can a little bit um what we've been finding with the initiatives that we're able to take on is we need to be able to have a person do that role and so we haven't had markets approach us or municipalities approach us about doing that specifically but what we have been finding is that some of the events that we're hosting growers are chitty chatting after the fact and I've walked away from one of those meetings having met someone that I now wholesale with in collaboration.

So it helps my business specifically uh it all just depends if we have the capacity to be doing that.

Any other questions, comments?

Thank you very much for coming.

In terms of financial support, we encourage you to make a grant and aid application that's usually in around, I think, January, February, for the following fiscal year.

And that's that's always a keen focus that we want to support projects, particularly if it's uh if it's going to be beneficial to uh to the residents of Ural, which food is.

So that's that's great.

A question I had you in in um one of your slides, you had uh a person described as a landless farmer.

What do you mean by that?

So something that we're finding is becoming a lot more common, unfortunately, on the South Island is people are leasing land and for some reason they're shifted off of that land.

So for example, the landowner could sell and not want to sell with a tenant farmer on that land.

I've also encountered a lot of people who have really outgrown the land that they are currently on and wanting to scale up but not being able to find the land to make it financially viable and then unfortunately not being able to continue that as a vocation.

So we do have unfortunately a lot of people who are wandering around the South Island who at one point have farmed or worked as farm workers and are looking for land.

I see.

Uh the name South Island, south of what?

What what city?

Well, geograph geographically speaking, south of the Malahat-ish, but we do welcome, we have members in the Col Mox Valley, and like I said, on the mainland.

Um, so it it doesn't really matter to us.

What really is important is that there are people who are coming from out of the municipality or out of the South Island to learn and take that back to their community too.

Because we all need to eat, regardless of what municipality we live in, where on the island, if we're growing food on Vancouver Island, that makes us so much stronger.

And so relatively-ish south of the Malahat, but it doesn't really matter to us.

Yeah.

Um, Vol owns a portion of land that is in the ALR in um alongside uh um Eagle Creek on Little Road.

And um we are looking probably in in the near future, next couple of years, to assess uh uses of that land.

So I think that's something that I think your organization uh should have uh assess um and give us input on.

I I could also point out that um Pollock's farm on Atkins Road, um, he's been um the family's been on that um land for over 100 years, uh, been acknowledged by the Ministry of Agriculture.

But um Mr.

Bollock's time is uh running out.

He's um he wants to keep it as a farm, but struggling to know how he can.

So um that's a point that I think is is worth um also looking into.

Um and I should also give a plug for Welland uh Welland's Orchard, which the town also has uh 120 varieties of uh apple trees and fruit trees that are you know extremely rare.

So um yes we will is uh is a keen supporter of food security so do please come back and and make a grant application.

Absolutely thank you all so very much for your time this evening.

I do notice there's a little bit of light outside so I'm gonna start harvesting my strawberries but thank you very much for having me this evening.

Thank you for coming.

We're missing in acknowledging Council Brown is not here tonight because he's um uh at the moment at an info and engagement session with the school trustees, electoral areas, and this is all about the ward system.

So if uh you're interested in that, can't make it because you're here, uh there is a QR code and there's questions available until September 11th.

So moving on to our next topic.

Um staff, uh, could you speak to uh the rezoning uh application for 258 Helmicken Road?

Thank you, Chair, Jeff Chow Senior Planner.

Uh this uh purpose of tonight is to introduce a rezoning application for the property at 258 Helmkin Road to amend the uh zone to prevent additional commercial uses.

Uh next slide, please.

So the property was rezoned in 2021 and to prevent a six-story mixed-use building comprised of 55 condomine apartment units and uh neighborhood grocery on the ground floor.

And a neighborhood grocery with a use that was defined, especially for this space to allow kind of a uh kind of a neighborhood sized grocery that would uh include uses like bakery, cafe, and delicatessen.

Next slide, please.

So the building uh was was completed this year, um earlier this year, but the commercial space is still vacant.

Um the applicant advised that they've been looking for a for a tenant for that space since 2022, but no viable tenant has been found.

And the economic landscape has changed.

That for some of the units, tenants they're looking for, the space was too large, and the ones that they were previously spoken with speaking with were no longer looking for locations at this time.

So dividing the space into smaller units would be uh would allow for uh other types of uses that are um that support the neighborhood, and uh and those types of tenants are looking for smaller units that are um 1,000 to 1,500 square feet, whereas this unit is is almost 6,000 square feet.

Next slide, please.

The proposal is to uh permit the addition the following uses as additional uses to neighborhood grocery.

Uh cafe, medical clinic, office, and retail.

And medical clinic means basically medical related professions, including uh medical doctors, dentists, chiropractors, physiotherapists, etc.

Next slide, please.

Uh some of the rational and support of the proposal is that the commercial uses is the commercial vacant unit is still vacant after three years of of of marketing the space.

Okay next and uh and the next slide, please um the the use is consistent with the official community plan near center designation um it's shown that the location is not really viable for a neighborhood grocery uh although it is still permitted uh within that if if they you know permit as a as a as a smaller scale to have like a smaller type of store there um and the the proposed uses are are those that are typically found in in mixed commercial residential uh buildings it can still add to the vibrancy of the streetscape and create that kind of uh gathering places where the community can get together um and if those uses are kind of type of supported um obviously the zone would limit them to the ground floor except for parking.

Next slide please.

The recommendation is to uh is to uh that the committee recommend to council that staff prepare uh a zoning bylaw to consider the proposal uh to to add the uh cafe medical clinic office and retail's permitted uses uh that those spaces be located on the ground floor and um and because the proposal would still would be consistent with the um official community plan designation for a neighborhood center in this area uh that that notification be um conducted of first reading um for uh actually notice will be conducted uh prior to fourth reading of the uh of the uh the zoning bylaw uh next slide please the alternative uh option is to proceed with a public hearing for uh as part of the bylaw consideration for this proposal um the i should note that even if you don't have a public hearing um uh the the there would still be notification of the uh of the uh the same you know property owners and residents residents within 400 meters of the property they would have opportunities to speak at each bylaw reading as well with a public hearing it's a one-time uh opportunity to speak uh the the third option is that uh committee recommend to council that the application be declined uh so that completes my my presentation the um the applicant is is here if there are actually additional questions that uh that the uh committee may have uh thank you very much i wonder if um does the applicant wish to speak to us now if you could uh state your name and address, please.

Okay.

Uh sorry about that.

Uh Chair, thank you, your worship, council.

Uh good to see you all again.

Uh so just to shed some light on to what's what's happening here with this.

So we've completed the building.

Um we've got uh it over half occupied.

We're still trying to sell some units.

Uh things are a bit slower out in the world as as we can have heard and have experienced, uh, but we're working our way to get uh to getting them all filled.

Uh the people that have moved in are very, very happy.

Uh the feedback from the neighbors and uh the people that I've actually moved in has been uh very positive.

So it's really been uh gratifying after the struggles of actually completing this building.

It was of probably one of the most difficult things that uh uh my family have ever had to accomplish.

Uh it was very, very challenging, but the good news is that we're here and uh we've built a building that I hope that the community is very, very proud of.

Uh we're certainly very proud of it and very grateful that uh we were given that opportunity.

So, with uh the commercial space, we have been on this for going over three years now.

We had a tenant for that space.

Uh in fact, uh following uh the previous presentation of uh uh uh the organization that was just here, um we had been very excited about what we were told was there was going to be space across from the uh Victoria General Hospital, it was going to be farm to market with a short drive, really excited us, and we took an opportunity, we took a chance on the on the lease applicant uh to give them that opportunity.

Um and they they followed uh generally speaking, the the what we were hoping to see in there, which was uh just a lovely boutique style gathering place for the community where they could come in, and not just for picking up groceries as you could do at any of the larger establishments, but we really wanted to have a sense of uh a gathering place for the community to come and hang out, sit out on the deck, be in the coffee shop, look at all the greenery.

I'm sorry, look at all the greenery, get to know your neighbors, have that enhancing of the community uh opportunity.

Uh sadly, they just could not make it work.

We offered them extraordinary concessions.

We reduced the lease rates down to unsustainable levels for us, but we were hoping that over time they would get enough air under their wings that they would be able to carry on with it and then hopefully increase it into a more normal uh uh rational leasing uh price.

But we were quite prepared to carry that for we just wanted to get somebody in.

We wanted uh the opportunity for the people in the building, but also the neighborhood to be able to have that uh uh space to engage with each other, but it just didn't happen.

And uh they they couldn't they couldn't close, so we had to uh we we extended them uh basically free lease, free rent for a very long time, hoping that they would be able to generate enough money to carry on, at least to get a foundation, but it just didn't work.

And uh upon further investigation, they just really weren't quite prepared.

So we we tried our best.

We had, I have here well with us um our realtor from Colliers who we gave.

Colliers is a very, very large uh real estate company with reach all over the country, not only this country, but into the US as well.

And we gave them a carte blanche.

All we wanted was a tenant.

We didn't care what the prices were, we didn't care pretty much of anything other than we needed somebody into the to have that space.

Uh anything was better than nothing.

And uh we just did not find anybody.

We searched across the country, up the island.

We gave incentives, uh, anything that you could possibly think of.

We extended, we just wanted to get somebody into the space.

Um it's been really frustrating.

But we have not been able to get anybody.

Not only has it been extraordinarily expensive, but it's been really frustrating that such a beautiful space that we have there can't find someone to occupy it.

Um I was standing in there tonight and I looked out from the center of the of the of the space, and it's very, very beautiful.

It's all glass on two sides.

The the greenery that that that's in the of that area, it's very calm, it's very relaxing.

We we put glass in that really kind of eliminates all the noise.

It's a really, really beautiful space, and it was really frustrating to me that we weren't able to uh uh weren't able to to to get that that element but the one thing that I I believe that we that we we can do is that we can still have the spirit of what that space was supposed to be to begin with which was to have the residents of Lions Cove and the townhouses, the neighbors across the street, the neighbors down the hill, anybody but to have a space where they could still congregate, meet, chat, get to know your neighbors, reacquaint yourself to your neighbors.

And that is why we we we were we believe strongly that we couldn't put a coffee shop in uh which still offers because that was really the large part of the whole boutique grocery store was to have the coffee shop.

That was really the the essence of what that whole space was.

It wasn't just to go and pick up some groceries over there.

You can get that anywhere.

But what was really the draw of this whole thing was to have that uh opportunity for uh community uh with the plaza outside, it's so pretty.

And for the the area on the east, uh the west side of the space, which is encompassed in glass, it's a very large place for tables.

That was really going to be the heart of the of the whole situation.

So we're very confident that we can find, as a matter of fact, I we've been reached out to by by coffee shops that sort of have the the delicatessen part of it, that have the bakery part of it, that have the coffee shop, to have that traffic of people to come in, sit down, spend some time, enjoy their environment, and then and then carry on with their day.

We have that opportunity, I believe.

And then from engaging with in our public uh uh uh uh house that we had for uh the the neighbors uh we were act it was actually quite supportive one of the things I I noticed from that is that the feedback that we got was that they there was not enough um medical options for them.

There's been limitations on doctors.

There's a doctor shortage here.

You know, we all know that.

One of the reasons that there's a doctor shortage here is that there's no space for them to come and practice.

So we were hoping that that in addition to the to the coffee shop element of it that covers that that warm meeting, greeting community space, that we also offer, particularly for that environment, with the over 55 community, uh, and the general the general uh acceptance that we have a an aging uh population and we need we need to have that service available to them.

So we thought that uh you know a medical component to this space uh for a portion of it would would enhance the community.

People in the surrounding area could walk to their doctor's appointments or dentist appointments or uh uh physiotherapy appointments uh so we thought that was quite good um that that's sort of the vision that we we had had for that space to try to uh enhance the community to to make a benefit for the community uh we're certainly not talking about uh uh putting in uh a liquor store cannabis i saw a comment on one online about that and that there's that's that's just not uh the the at all what we're we're about we want to keep the uh the integrity of the spirit of what was given for that space and what was planned okay and w I wonder if I can just give some time to the other two gentlemen if they wanted to uh speak, but you know, thank you.

Your uh your information is was very valid, very helpful okay let's hear from thank you, Chair.

Thank you.

Good evening.

My name is Jay.

I'm with Colliers.

Um I've been working with the Singhera family for probably about three years now.

I'm happy to answer any questions you guys may have on the leasing efforts or process that we ran.

Um I can provide some commentary on on our experience.

The biggest feedback was the the lack of groups that were willing and able to take on 6,000 square feet in the marketplace.

The the overwhelming feedback that we got, and we were on the market for about three years here, Victoria, Up Island, reached out to our brokers in our Vancouver office.

We have outreach to all of BC and throughout Canada as well.

And the primary uh feedback was most grocery groups are not looking for space right now.

No one's the A, the the square footage is challenging.

B the amount of capital expenditure that takes to build out 6,000 square feet for mom and paw use is very, very expensive given this market was back in 2022, three, four, five.

It's been very, very challenging as you guys know the real estate market.

So the the overwhelming feedback was hey, we need probably 1,500 square feet at most.

And we had a lot of outreach, as Jeff mentioned, for medical groups that reached out to us, but we just couldn't accommodate for that request at that point in time.

We said thank you for reaching out, but we'd love to have you, but we just can't, given the permitted zoning that we were under.

Um if you guys have any other questions, I'm more than happy to answer any leasing or leasing efforts.

Okay, yeah, cash lemon.

Yeah, thank you for the information.

Yeah.

Um, the medical groups that have reached out to you, are they new to the area and needing space?

And would therefore would be taking building an entirely new patient base?

Um, no, they would be growing.

So it would be an expansion for most groups that we've reached out to through our brokerage community.

So um two or three groups that did reach out to us.

There was an optometrist, uh, an eye doctor, optometrist, there was some other medical-related groups that were poking around.

But we we'd entertain everything, but we just couldn't couldn't do a deal with any of these groups given the the restrictions.

But we'd always we'd check everything and make sure that who the group was and was qualified.

But um there was definitely interest from these medical groups to, I mean, as you guys know, it's such a prominent corner in View Royal, and we we believe that the the township of View Royal and the residents in in around the area deserve a really great tenant and have that utility, so it'd be more of an expansion play.

Um Jay, the reason I ask that is because we had a presentation here at Council from some um Island Health docs who said there's a you know, is their understanding is there's a bulge of doctors at the border, right?

Not just standing there, but you know, yeah, metaphorically, um at the border who, if there were space, right, you know, they could help they could help with our our situation here.

A shortage for sure.

Yeah, no, these were local groups that were were looking for space so I I think that's a testament to just our our existing commercial leasing market and lack of commercial space for doctors so um yeah counsel machine yeah just one of my concerns about um your application is one of the reasons you got six stories was the the was the promise of a red barn like um building or to red barn like um business used yeah so that's what the community certainly had been promised from the developer, and that's sort of what council approved this.

Like I as a counselor wouldn't have voted for six stories, except for the fact that it was going to be a red barn type uh business.

So one of my questions would be you had a uh you mentioned grocery store.

It sounds as if a grocery store of 1,500 square feet would be viable because it's a smaller one.

Uh how big would a restaurant need to be?

So I mean, if your presentation was, well, six thousand square feet's way too much, but if we had 1,500 square feet for a grocery, you know, 1,500 square feet for a restaurant, and you know, a thousand square feet for a bakery, and you came back with that, these are all the amenities that the community was looking for.

So if it's just not, if it's just a function of 6,000 square feet is too much to to make it work, would having smaller components for each of those items is is that something you'd be willing to to look at because i again as putting in things that are totally different from what the community had been promised it's hard for me to for a council to support that thank you thank you uh counselor matheson for the question uh chair rogers your worship esteemed members of the council my name is nial paltial longtime listener first time caller uh here with uh island view land management and I live at Brentwood in Brentwood Bay um on on behalf of the uh the Singhera family and and to answer your question specifically, I think that the the the challenge uh with a restaurant per se uh as a use is that the the the the shell of space right now built under with a you know concrete slab in the mixed use condition that it's in was not designed with the ventilation and the back of house services in place that would support a full-scale restaurant with kind of like no pun intended, like the soup to nuts kind of production that you would expect.

And uh and and there have been some challenges fixturing in other mixed use buildings when it does done as a retrofit in ensuring that there's not a conflict between the ground floor commercial uses and the impact that that can have, specifically on the second floor residential residence.

Um and so sometimes those heavier commercial uses can be uh a little bit of a challenging and and and there can be a little bit of a conflict there.

We had looked at that with our architects um uh on a very cursory level, but I think one thing just can I just interject there.

I mean, initially, bakery and restaurant were part of the mix.

And so are you saying that a bakery and a restaurant, or not a restaurant, but a coffee shop?

Sorry, to be I think it I think the language needs is is really important here to be clear.

A cafe and a bakery could be potential uses, not necessarily potentially a heavy bakery with you know heavy HVAC equipment in it, something that still needs to be ground-truth.

A cafe, however, is is different from a restaurant as a defined use.

And a cafe certainly can be accommodated as a as a potential use, but a a a restaurant with heavy food production done in-house is is not possible.

But I mean part of what strikes me is that there's the little strip mall down where the YW or YMCA is on Craig Flower.

They've got a set, you know, there's a barber, there's a separate coffee shop, uh, and there's a separate bakery and they do their own baking.

So I'm a little confused as like a little bakery like that again is a public, it would be an amenity for the town.

Um no and so that's this the scale we're we're looking at to something to draw public the public to not a yep full blown brigade and that that's part of the question I think that could be considered if this does move ahead from committee to uh to a public hearing is is uses like that.

I think the other thing I I appreciate the the intent of the question as far as creating a um small series of of commercial uses that provide utility and amenity to the public.

I think one important thing just from a kind of a site planning standpoint, if if we're aware and familiar with this site, which I know all of all of you are, is we have about two meters of fall from down the island highway um falling east to uh west.

And and with that grade drop we do have limited entrances along there uh as well as limited back of house loading, etc.?

There's only kind of one clear area for a corridor to get through so that people can use that above-ground parking uh safely and securely as operators.

And so that's why, because of the limited doorways along the island highway uh frontage uh to the east of the property, um, that's really what sets it up well for those medical type of offices because you'd have one kind of clear accesses and egresses into the commercial site.

And then the the retail use being at the corner, where you have a number of entrances, both at Helmkin and Island Highway, where there's very clear uh points of entry exit, and that uh great kind of meeting plaza space, which again was really designed uh to to Mr.

Singera's comment earlier with that kind of community hub and vibrancy uh uh condition.

Uh it's south facing, it has great outdoor seating, as well as those number of you know six series of entries, and uh and and we feel that the uh the spirit and intent of what was pr presented uh at the at the time of this rezoning um almost you know three years ago or over three years ago uh can be delivered uh but being mindful of the the the fact that it has been three years and and and the market conditions aren't what they were um back then thank you um um thank you mr sangera and family the the building does look good now i mean it's it's hard to appreciate what a building's gonna look like when it's a hole in the ground and traffic's disrupted and everybody's upset about the construction and now that it's finished it it it's a good looking building um I I've got two questions.

What and I I appreciate your concessions of uh flexibility for a contract, but what's your target square foot rate for commercial for um because obviously if you're getting colliers involved there there is a business plan.

So what what was your target rate for uh for leasing?

Uh the the price that we offered to the the grocery stores?

Yeah we actually offered them a blank check.

We we just wanted somebody in the there were there were actually starting from the basis of a very low rate compared to Langford compared to Victoria.

It was already starting at a at a lower starting point.

What we did was when we were first with the tenant that had signed on, we had given them like we offered them a year's free rent lease.

We we offered them a reduced rate for we just wanted to get somebody in there.

But it it just didn't work.

It didn't matter.

At one point they wanted us to completely build out for them and spend over a million and a half dollars, which we just don't have.

But that's how far it was going in addition to all of the the concessions and and benefits that we were trying to to give them.

But it it it did not happen at all.

So uh to give you an actual number, like we gave them uh uh a free runway for uh months and months at a time uh with no cost.

Uh after that it was scaled up to to I think it was about between 12 and 14 dollars a foot for yet another portion of it, uh, and then hoping to get eventually into a a spot where it would just be a normal uh rate of lease that would be comparable to what you would be getting uh uh up the street across from the Victoria General Hospital or even in Langford or any of the surrounding areas that would be comparable.

And just for the benefit of my fellow um members of council, the average, like the low rate average for commercial right now in Victoria is about 18, and that can go up to 22 depending on usage with a high end of uh of 56.

Um per square foot.

Yeah.

And and normally, correct me if I'm wrong because I don't lease commercial space.

Is that an annual thing?

Is it monthly payments?

Normally, and I'm not uh saying you know that this is an exception, but just no problem.

I'm I'm happy to answer this question.

Um so typically, yeah, like as Jeff mentioned, we were super super lenient with the previous tenant.

We we'd offered up about a year's worth of basic free rent just because we wanted that use and user, and View Royal deserved that group as we promised.

Um, with I think I believe our release rates for the year two was about $14 a square foot, where uh up across from the hospital, your your average is about $31, $32 a square foot for commercial space for ground floor retail space.

I'm doing for your guys' benefit, I'm doing some retail leasing in Langford.

Um Langford and View Royal are further away from each other, and there should be a higher lease rate in View Royal than there should be in Langford, and we're achieving $35 a square foot for ground floor retail, brand new construction in Langford.

And uh uh next question, if I can, um, Mr.

Chair, is uh how many dedicated parking spots to whatever usage have we got on your property?

I believe it's 29.

Uh we have 29 uh spaces.

And are those spaces all underground or are they in back or no?

Uh uh your worship uh behind the commercial space, there's uh 18 18 parking spots uh that are on um uh right behind it on this on the surface level, and then down below before the security gate for the residential parking, there's 11 more underground spots uh uh for the commercial space as well.

Great, thank you.

Yeah, thank you.

Um anybody else Council McKenzie?

No, okay.

Um I understand you did the uh an open house.

Um when was that?

How many people came?

Uh that was uh August 19th, I believe it was, or uh August 19th.

Uh and I believe there were somewhere in the neighborhood of between it was well attended, 30 to 50, 50 people uh from the neighborhood came.

Yeah.

And we've also uh in addition to that, uh, we've also fielded uh email or phone calls from other uh that couldn't make it to the actual physical public house that had questions and we answered them verbally as well for them.

Yes, uh interesting.

Um I guess you know this is why I'm particularly leaning towards a um um a uh public hearing because we haven't had the benefit of the of the public's input.

Um I'm not um terribly pleased with the choices.

I'm certainly doing office base.

What's office space?

That's not walkable.

That doesn't assert the community.

It's uh we see enough of that on on uh on Six Mile.

Um the the commercial center is there and um I don't see any any individuals being drawn in from the community as as a walkable service.

Um which there used to be a grocery store there too but uh that failed um so I think that's that's the key thing here this the the public was really bought into as Council Matson is saying bought into the um the whole uh red barn market grocery store uh kind of approach where people could have coffee and and have bakeries and you know there and and certainly you you built the uh the site to be that attractive to do so.

Um but I think what we have not yet done is that if we're going to look at alternate uses, we have to find out what the public thinks are alternate uses that they would want to walk to.

And uh unless we do that, um, you know, this this is a very limited use uh that's being proposed by um uh before us right now.

And I don't think uh that's it's reasonable to the public to uh go for this right now.

Let's let's uh frankly, members, I think we should go to the public, ask what they well how they felt about this whole loss, you know, grieving and all that uh stuff, and um and yet find out um you know what they're feeling is is um a viable service that they would really like to uh have in this beautiful space.

Uh so uh yeah, I'm prepared to support option two, and that's to proceed to proceed to public hearing um to hear from the public people, particularly the people in the surrounding neighborhood.

People from Lyons Cove, as I recall, were just jubilant at the prospect of a grocery store.

And uh and I think it to the point that it might have almost blinded them to, you know, what else would be there.

Um so I yeah, I I hope I would like to go to public hearing and hear from the neighbors and uh come up with a solution that works for everyone, the town and and uh the residents in the building.

Do we have a second neighbors?

Uh yeah.

Uh can we can we just second?

Should we go to motion on the floor if we just second the motion.

We're still in the question i made a comment it was beyond a question so and it wasn't yet a motion okay fair enough um council match so so my question is you you talk about the in economic environment changing well what we heard three years ago or whenever we approved this the economic environment environment was sufficient to have a red barn type business there and times things have changed uh so my view is things will change again and so as we increase the development in the community, uh it'll become more and more viable to have a red barn type building there.

And so it harkens back to my times when we were um we had the opportunity for a Home Depot and we turned it down and eventually we have Eagle Creek.

So my question is will the economic, you know, with if there's changes in into the the economy and things become more vibrant and there's more people here, then does this red barn type of approach become more viable?

Uh thank you for the question, counselor.

The in this process over the last three years, what we've found from what you were saying about a red barn type market, they have not been able to make this space work for them.

And that's what we've heard over and over and over again.

Uh when we first got the rezoning for for this project, well, I didn't know anything about commercial space.

I didn't know anything about markets, but I certainly knew that there was going to be a beautiful building, and I had no reason to believe none of us did that there wouldn't be a successful uh uh market in that spot.

But time has proven everybody wrong here, and we've gone through exceptional lengths to try to fill it with giving up everything just to have someone in there for that space.

It's not like we've been trying to hold out and and get someone uh the the ultimate silver bullet.

Absolutely not.

We we have given even to this moment free carte blanche, whatever will work.

We don't care if we make any money on this project for five years.

It's not even about that.

All we're trying to do is provide a heartbeat to this community in the corner in the spirit of what this rezoning was all about.

And at the essence of what this rezoning was about was to have a place where the community could gather, could meet, to talk, to engage, to attract other people in, to enhance a corner that didn't have much life into it.

But by by bringing in a coffee shop, which we're very confident we could do, that would encompass the the the the bakery idea, the deli idea, the coffee shop, but most importantly to give the space where people can come and congregate in a in a lovely environment that essence is is still very much here a part of that we we have gone through great great lengths to try to get that that tenant that grocery tenant and after three years I I'm I'm defeated I would not love nothing more than for Red Barn to come in and and take it I would happily give them three years free rent come just please but they're not doing that and the the the the expenses of of putting that together for the dynamics of the space that's there for that amount of space for whatever it is, not just one, but the entire slate of people that we've gone to have all come back and said it's not financially viable for them to do so.

Okay, thank thank you very much.

Um, I'm gonna give Mary Tabesh a chance to Yeah, I just uh had a question about the um the types of um market studies you might have run.

So my concern is we go back to the public and we say, what do you want now?

You know, we can't do that, but what do you want now?

Only to find out that's not viable either.

So have we have we done any market study?

I know you've got some anecdotal uh interest uh that that folks have uh been interested in, or perhaps a cafe or a medical clinic, but uh have you got any market studies to say here's something that might match communities's desire with uh with something that we can actually fill the space with uh that that's a very good question your worship and uh yes but some of we had to be cognizant of of the of the people that have already bought into the building uh as well as the the surrounding neighborhood uh having something like a a a a gym uh fitness uh facility uh we worried about our our our clients that bought on the second floor with slamming heavyweights and things like that we were trying to find a good balance that from the community community engagement that we received, we were trying to find a good balance of what the community engagement gave us at our open house, the phone calls that we we we we tended to, and we we tried to come up with a a a balance of what would be good for them and what would be good for the uh the people that were living on the site.

And that's why uh at that meeting the overwhelming uh uh uh feedback that we had is we're we're concerned because we what came up is we we don't have we don't have enough uh options uh for our our medical whether that be hearing aid whether that be a dentist whether that be the doctors the the doctors were a a tremendously uh relevant conversation it it kept coming up a lot that there was just if I can again let me stop you there um you know you the the mayor asked a good question um and you guys have some homework to do the list here that you've provided is inadequate um there should be more options uh provided for the public to consider when we have and hopefully we do have a public hearing that um that people can hear it consider the points that that are viable uh opportunities that's walkable services that's gonna help the community so um um yeah you I I personally I think you have more work to do I'm not gonna support this motion as it is the options are too limited so um if you do some more work and we hear from the public which is going to be a viable use, then um it could be a win-win, even make a profit.

Yeah.

I mean, I have comments.

I don't know if we're at that point.

Some of us are, but I'm I'm prepared to make a motion if we're uh if we're able to do that now.

I would like to move staff's recommendation, and I can motivate that.

I'll second it.

Okay, thank you.

Well, I I certainly have an uh opposing view of some of my colleagues here.

I'd like to acknowledge uh the risk that developers take when they build large-scale multi-family, multi-story units in View Royal or any municipality.

Uh there's there's a lot of jeopardy and a lot of risk involved.

Uh these folks took a risk on having a a smaller grocery store at the lower level.

We've heard from three of them here in very, very great detail about how challenging that would been have been.

I have never heard in my time on council this much effort to fulfill a promise to council.

I also disagree with some of my colleagues that the options aren't acceptable.

They've given us some pretty solid options for this area.

They haven't listed a restaurant that's going to be really noisy, like a trendy nighttime restaurant.

They haven't listed a gym.

They've been very thoughtful.

They've given reasonable spaces that could live at the bottom of that building.

A cafe, a bakery, medical offices, which I've heard many of you talk about for many, many years up here.

So I'm surprised to hear any opposition to that.

And they're being flexible.

It's three years of being vacant.

We need to move forward our economy.

We need to be nimble.

I would argue that a public hearing is not necessary.

They have gone back to the public several times already on this matter.

Yes, they have.

Well, they've they they've they've already started with public engagement about it, and they've gone back again on their own accord.

I haven't received one piece of correspondence about the uh vacancy.

That hasn't come come through us at council, has it, about complaining about no grocery store being built?

I haven't seen that.

I I support this motion.

I think it's reasonable.

I think obviously they're gonna work with us.

They've they've come here and they're very open and transparent about what's gonna go in there, and I think we should move this forward.

Thank you.

I really do appreciate the amount of effort that the applicant has put forward.

I actually think it's unprecedented.

And they haven't been able to fill it in the three years, and they've really tried to fulfill this promise, but um, and now we're at a point where we need to problem solve.

We can't just say, well, let's just wait and see.

I rather see something in that space and contributing to the community uh rather than just leaving it empty and and waiting for something that might never happen.

Um I actually like the idea of smaller and more diverse services such as medical and cafe.

And it had a similar intent as the applicant said, you know, a cafe for congregating.

That was the intention with the grocery store was that people could come together, not just shop but also meet up.

And I think similar to Councillor Kowich, these options that have been provided are very similar in it to a grocery store in terms of the level of noise, the type of traffic that it will have in the area.

So for that reason, I'm supportive of this motion.

Yeah, and I certainly won't be supporting the motion.

I mean, the community was promised public amenity that there would that's what they were that's what they were promised.

That's why as a member of council I voted for six stories.

And that the motion as it reads, cafe retail.

I'm sorry, retail isn't a public amenity that I'm aware of.

Uh office, again, similar.

What's office?

Uh too vague.

And the medical clinic would work, would be acceptable if it was a start from scratch medical clinic where the divisions of family practice could then bring in residents of View Royal who haven't got a doctor.

But from what I heard so far, it's someone's gonna bring their practice in and then add additional people, and there's no guarantees that it's gonna be viewer all residents.

So it's just too iffy for me.

So this whole thing in terms of the recommendations, I think, as Counselor Rogers pointed out, need to be more specified in options.

I mean, I would be more far more comfortable if you if there was a breakdown of what this thing was going to look like.

If you had like 1800 2,000 square feet for a coffee, the coffee or a cafe coffee shop that had the bakery, then I understand that.

But when it's just a cafe, um there's a small cafe right at the corner, and it's it's about 600 square feet.

So there's just too much I don't I can't support in terms of what it really means.

And unless I can be convinced that it's a public amenity, that all these are the public amenity that that we were promised, I can't support it.

So I think you have as Council Rogers have to go back and do your homework in terms of what you're actually looking for, how much space you want, because you have 6,000 square feet, and we don't have any breakdown of the space for those reasons.

I'm not going to support this motion.

In fact, I don't even want to see it go to public hearing until I understand better.

I won't be supporting that motion.

I would, given an opportunity, make a motion that it go to public hearing because uh the applicant has heard from the public, but we have not.

And and I would I would hope that at a public hearing uh members of the public, neighbors and so on, um attend and tell us and the applicant what they would like to see.

Right.

I realize that there was a covenant that the previous council had with the public on this, and uh it it incurred extra floors and it um uh was uh uh more or less a promise as an amenity as uh condition as councilor Matson pointed out for those extra floors.

Um citing a similar type of example in a squimalt where the community really won and council really wanted a medical clinic that was the uh South Island physicians.

Uh they're about the same amount of time in I think a little bit deeper uh three and a half four years they cannot fill it and the developer has gone uh out of their way to fill it anything that they could do to balance it out with new doctors.

So I I think there's a there's a will and a desire to fill it there's also the covenant that this previous council made with the public saying that's going to be in, but if that's not reality, um, then what could be there?

I would appreciate a market study to say, hey, if we put this sign on it, we could let her go tomorrow.

May basically looking at the options here and having a likelihood beside it.

Cafe high likelihood, square footage maximum, because you're probably not going to want 6,000 square feet for a cafe.

But as we go down this roster, the some association with likelihood of leasability and and and profit for um the owner uh with what we go to the public for, right?

Because if all of these things are not doable, then we're just going to the public again with um something that here's another promise that we're not able to fulfill because the market, nothing to do with the owner, uh, but the the market won't support it.

So I I guess my comment succinctly is you know it's fine to want something, but it's another story to fill it right now with the market being what it is.

So I would like to see some more likelihood information in a market study of what we propose.

I I won't, I I wouldn't be opposed because this has already gone through a public hearing app, but I wouldn't be opposed to another public hearing based on some more information first.

Um to be able to make that a reality.

To say, here's the story with the grocery store, uh, here's the actions the owner has taken.

Um the likelihood is low or nil.

And uh traditionally, if we left it vacant for another year, it's not going to be a grocery store, right?

If there's confidence in that, and then add the rest of these with the likelihoods on them that we could go to the public.

Those are my thoughts, Chair.

My apologies.

I won't support the motion.

Um, the idea of a market study that we could take to the public makes it so that um people are going to buy into it, they're gonna accept it, they're gonna want to use it, and uh which means it's great for the whoever you're gonna bring in.

Um, and it's not going to be um isolated and boring like Lake Side Village, which is just office space, boring as hell, and um because it doesn't use doesn't it doesn't supply a need.

So people still have to get in their cars and go someplace else on our congested streets.

We want to walk with service, you want to walk with service.

So um please do that market study, let's inform and get the rest of the public bought in.

Uh I'll call the question on the motion.

All those in favor?

Opposed.

Sorry, very quickly.

Very much appreciate the the feedback and discussion.

And I think that either option one or option two, which it sounds like we're moving towards a public hearing, uh, is is supportable on our end.

We have no issue um having uh further discussion with the uh with the neighborhood.

Um I think it's important though, when we're talking about you know servicing, transportation, traffic, and other implications, that sometimes having a carte blanche of uses for the public to weigh in on can be a little bit challenging.

Um, but I do take your point about uh market feasibility.

Um we we did I and I will say to your um your your esteemed staff's uh uh credit in this, we we did have that discussion with them about uses and and variability around kind of what's the likelihood of filling that space.

Uh and and with that guidance from staff, if you uh look in your staff report, um Colliers did do an inventory of commercial cafe leases within the last five years of newer builds and gave us a range of cafe spaces that would be uh viable uh for this location the range that we found was about 1500 to two uh 2500 square feet and in fact in the rationale letter that we provided to mayor and council we also were willing to commit to a minimum of uh space for a cafe tenant uh we can also reiterate that and bring that forward at a public hearing as well it sounds like we should do our homework with some medical users as well and come with that range although based on I believe uh our our initial kind of market sounding in groups that are looking to grow in View Royal and add to the patient uh um uh offerings here uh in in your community.

We do believe that you know 5,000 to to you know 5,500 square feet as we would be able to provide here should be uh extremely viable.

Um that being said, um more than happy to to prove that out to ensure that to your uh point, Mayor Tobias, that if and when council does grant the the covenant around what we deem to be a public benefit or community amenity, uh that we are able to fill that and the benefit we have is that we have a space available in today's market, not in yesteryear's market.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um Leanne, you may be answer able to answer this, but uh given our situation, is it possible to have the place zoned like half cafe, half clinic?

If that's what it comes down to, and the public wants that, would that be a real exception?

Would we have to do a big amendment for that or is that possible?

Um through the chair, yes, we can add those um requirements in the zone through a zoning bylaw amendment.

Should you know some uh limitations or requirements of uses.

So we can we can be prescriptive like that in a zone.

Um the current zone is already quite prescriptive with respect to a grocery store and hours of operation, more so than most zoning bylaws.

So it's that's already embedded in this particular zone.

Um we can go one step further if if council wants to add sort of some some parameters around these these uses.

However, if you get too prescriptive, then we'll we'll end up in the same situation where we won't be able to lease the space so yeah I was more asking the question so that if we provided options to the public they chose some that they would be compatible with each other and we could accommodate those things in the same space from what I'm hearing it may be difficult to fill 6,000 square feet for clinic or for coffee shop but maybe if you had a clinic and a coffee shop if that were the remaining options between the two of those that would be able to work and we could accommodate that through zoning.

That was my question.

Thank you.

Yes, indeed.

Go ahead.

Also to staff, Leanne, can we go directly to public hearing with a with the new information that a uh market study or market research might provide?

Through the chair, my recommendation is to bring that information forward at the time of first and second reading because council must um um give bylaw readings prior to public hearing.

So that would be the best time to provide that information for council's consideration.

So if we had a motion for the public hearing or uh then the if we had a motion for the public hearing then we'd be able to cover all those spaces understanding that there would be a market study and and uh the necessary um first and second readings.

So my mine's more technical question.

I say we had a discussion we said well we want half the space as the mayor pointed out to be cafe in the other half something else does that need to be in the motion like like we can't take this motion to public hearing if what we really want is at least half the space to be cafe um through the chair if that is if that's council's wish then that's um council wishes that 50 or half the space is um dedicated is is it must must be a cafe then that should be part of the the motion.

Okay.

So that that was my question.

Like I don't think this motion does it for me.

But but and I and I don't know if we can make a motion right now, but if we had if if if they came back to said yeah half of it half of it uh cafe, half of it um office space or um physician space, then it becomes an easier thing for me because they would get it.

But right now there's no designation of how much space we're talking about.

So is it my question would be I don't know if I could just ask and I shouldn't be asking this, but would would you be okay with that if if we change the motion so the half s half cafe and half I guess the the the challenge we have is that if I say yes and we're we could end up standing here six months from now because half of the space being a cafe is is outside of the market research that we've done and we've provided you and your staff I think that what I would I would if I was to make a recommendation it would be that that you the the question on the public hearing could be to provide a minimum of 1500 square feet of cafe space and the balance be other uses you know to to be to be you know from that list or or to be to be discussed if if that would serve staff and committee I think that that would that would ensure the the the the nugget of the kind of the community benefit of that cafe space that we're all we're all collectively trying to achieve here but also ensure that we are astute to some of the other market factors that that could play into the balance of that space and it could be 2,000 square feet but I think that the or it could be greater but I think that the the getting around that 1500 number is just a a bit more on the nose with what the market has told us to date.

Thank you point taken um so uh I don't think we're gonna be able to craft this on the fly um it's um I think what we clearly we either we receive this or we table it or we simply just direct uh staff to um because we will have another council meeting at for the first and second readings that we're gonna be able to hopefully get some feedback hopefully um uh get be able to tailor something that then could go to the public for consideration steph uh can you guide me on that point can we do it all tonight yes absolutely um through the chair yes we would work with the applicant we've we've heard council this evening and um staff will take this information back we will work with the applicant um we you know as i as it was noted earlier um callers has completed uh um an analysis already as part of this application in terms of the just sort of the desirable um sort of commercial you know desirable tenant size for this type of building, which is a thousand to fifteen hundred square meters um so if council would like to have you know at least one of those units to be to be a coffee shop, then that's something that we can look at building into the zone.

Um and uh and what we can bring it forward.

Thank you.

I certainly would like to see a copy of the market study.

I would also want to uh see the the feedback that they've received already.

Through the mayor, or um sorry, through the chair, it's on page 11 of the um staff report, and um we can definitely bring forward um the comments that the applicant has received um from the public uh as an attachment um to uh a future staff report.

I chair, if I may, I'd I'd like to move option two.

Second.

I I think everything that you uh and counselor Mattson are concerned with can work itself out as far as square footage or or or what have you but i think what we're doing is that we're just recommending to council right now that's all we're doing right we're not we're we're recomm we make the decision at the next council meeting right and if there's new stuff that that comes up that is required um then then we can address it at the council meeting but in order to start it and uh and get um staff working on it we could move option two.

Second.

I uh move we've got two seconds.

Okay.

So you yeah.

Okay, who moved?

Who's seconded?

You okay.

All right.

All right.

Um the only concern I have is that um uh in this, you see, at this moment it's only got the three options, it's permitted uses.

So um where's where's the uh the opportunity for other to consider other uses in this process before we actually get to first or second reading final minute.

So it we're still locked in.

No, we're not.

No, we're not.

I I don't think we're locked in.

I think uh I heard from staff that they've heard us.

And um it moving forward to it's gonna go to first and second reading first.

And what you heard now from us, you will be recrafting, like removing, for example, retail from the potential motion.

Am I right?

Um through through the chair.

I I I didn't hear that removing removing retail.

Um and I think it's important to note that the applicant did already consult with the residents in the neighborhood on these these use the proposed uses before um coming forward.

So some of the work has already been done by the by the applicant.

I'm sorry, I disagree.

Um it's more than the residents that um would they because there's a lot of people that I spoke to that knew nothing about this event.

And you know, it's one thing to have uh an event hosted by the vendor, it's another hosted by the town where we're going to be able to uh you know see the market study, consider options, maybe hairdresser, maybe that's something that no one thought of and and uh that is a viable option for the space.

So I don't think that the information provided is useful, but not complete.

So it it's uh I don't want to go on that.

And if your colors have done a study, I think it's uh this council should be informed what that study is about.

So um to the motion at this moment certainly is staying the course with uh options that I do not think is is uh suitable at this stage.

Okay chair, you got a move uh mover and a seconder for option two.

Just a comment.

Um motivated.

Go ahead.

So so staff if at the end of the day we still see the same thing come back next at the next council meeting, and there I would like to see opportunities for an amendment because I want to know square footage.

Like none of these except the cafe are things that we promised the community, and so if we had the square footage, you said 2,500 square feet might be a viable, like well, he said initially that in their evaluation that it could be up to 2500, I think.

So I want to I want the opportunity to make the amendment because right now he says add cafe, that means nothing.

Like in terms of how large it's going to be, how big it's going to be, and or whether it'll achieve the the goal that we had when we approved this.

So so we have a move and a second or on on the motion.

Let me call the question.

All is in favor opposed let's hope that we're going to be full and complete for the public sake as we go through this thank you very much gentlemen okay so we are moving along to uh official community plan review and update uh the western gateway corridor Survey.

Who would like to take this on that was an ordeal.

Uh tonight we'll be presenting on the uh Western Gateway Corridor Survey, uh a bit of an update for the committee, uh as well as an overview of upcoming engagement.

And um attached to the staff's report is the uh a copy of the draft survey um uh for uh opportunity for comment and and review from the committee.

Next slide, please.

Uh the Western Gateway Corridor has been identified as a key uh planning area, special planning area in the uh Fish Community Plan review and update, uh notably for its uh commercial uh uh and uh employment potential, uh access to the Trans Canada Highway, and its close proximity to uh many uh transit uh connections and uh services.

Between March 7th and April 4th, uh we carried out an engagement um via the community growth survey, and we had heard from the public that this was a uh desired area for employment uh and uh some light industrial use as well as some residential.

And uh we have uh since changed direction a bit with the uh the scope of the update.

Uh and we heard from council on the 17th of June of this year that they wanted to lengthen the area of study for the uh the Western Gateway Corridor and come back with uh a survey and engagement.

And um the area of study shown on the screen here uh will be between uh the Culwood uh city border and the uh Island Highway and Burnside Road West, shown here as I said in yellow.

Next slide, please.

The survey was presented to the official community plan review advisory committee on August 25th, and staff had heard back from members of the committee the following points.

Again, if you reference the uh the survey that's been attached to the staff report, this will uh help follow along.

So uh just providing a link to the housing needs report and the preamble.

This is the uh the 2024 interim housing needs report uh that staff had prepared last year, um, adding landmarks onto the maps for better orientation, uh, remove the reaffirming questions on density that were previously asked in the community growth survey, uh shortening the preamble, uh so making the uh the beginning of the survey a bit more concise, and then reducing the number of open-ended questions.

Um council looked at the survey, they may notice that these changes weren't implemented, and that was by design.

Staff were going to wait until after this meeting to hear from members of the committee to see if the committee was in agreement with those comments, and then also make uh final uh edits to the survey prior to uh going out for uh engagement.

Next slide, please.

So, with regards to engagement, um, project team has been looking at doing a uh a launch in October and carrying through to November, both online and in-person engagement opportunities.

And the kind of the three areas of focus here are really understanding broad visioning questions for the gateway corridor, understanding what challenges and opportunities exist, determining what values and aspirations respondents may have, and then ultimately identifying the preferred land use scenario.

So what land use designations and what uses our residents feel are desired in this area.

As part of this engagement, I mentioned open houses and workshops.

So staff would be doing this with members of the public, but we'd also be doing a focused, uh you know, targeted workshop with uh business owners and landowners in uh this area, inviting them to participate and hearing directly from them what it is that they are interested in uh seeing this area become or improving.

Um ultimately with this uh engagement, we're looking to uh have two kind of uh key deliver polls.

The first is uh updating our land use designations uh for this area and then also establishing supporting land use policies, uh housing policies, and economic policies.

Next slide, please.

Um the recommendation for this report was for uh receipt of information and uh welcome to hear from the committee if they have additional feedback or comments.

Um recommendation um uh as I said is for information but if if the committee does have comments it might be beneficial for staff to have those in form of motions if they're if there's quite complex uh amendments and um yeah looking forward to hearing what uh what you have to say thank you Sterling, am I am I correct in saying that the survey that you put to us tonight is on is the same one that you took to the OCP committee?

It's the same, it's the same survey.

It doesn't reflect any of their recommendations.

Am I right?

Through the chair, that's correct.

Good.

Thank you.

Thanks, Sterling.

I had the opportunity to speak uh to the base commander in the base as uh I think counsel and staff are aware there's rapid changes going on with a focus of natural national acquisition, local companies.

And uh I asked the question is there interest in a space in that corridor?

And when I say it light industrial, I do not mean manufacturing torpedoes on Old Island Highway.

Uh uh, but uh a lot of um office space is required for some of these contractors and maybe assembly uh for some stuff, not the actual making of things.

Uh there didn't seem to be an outlook to the future that would incorporate a spillover from uh the base.

They did say Callwood itself is going to change significantly.

And of course, that access to that base is through View Royal near the coffee shop.

So that is about to get a lot busier over there.

But uh I just wanted to inform council that that was the feedback as we're doing the OCP.

I was thinking, is there an opportunity?

Should we be planning?

Is there a demand for it?

But um right now it's just more impact.

So I just wanted to share that with staff and committee.

I I think um uh the OCP committee took a look at the uh the survey and uh had some input into it.

I've taken another look and uh I didn't see anything else personally, but happy if my colleagues did pick some things up.

Council Mesham.

I guess I have a sort of a bias against surveys anyway, because sometimes people really don't know what they're doing and you just fill them in.

Uh and if there's only a few people, unless there's a huge numbers of people, you have to sort of view the the results.

But uh I had no real problems with the the survey.

I guess it gives the options of having residential office and light industrial so people can tell us what they tell us what they want so uh if and then if the OCP committee had made some improvements to it that that's good I don't really have in any significant issues at all yeah Mike thank you any other comments or questions uh council emman question uh no comment comment um and that's some of the points made by the committee I I think are very valid one one of them two of them actually that really spoke to me and perhaps to um mayor to buyas as well that it it's a little bit unwieldy getting into it um it's a lot of a lot of pros and uh I I we'll lose people you know you kind of lose me you know we we don't all have that kind of attention span or interest to run that deep into it.

Likewise with the open ended questions the 350 character open ended questions I I think those are also unwieldy.

That's asking a lot of people asking um for a lot more attention than people might want to give um in completing a survey.

So that's what I have to say about that.

And if we need a motion and um to that effect, I will crack make one, but uh um I'll wait till Mayor Tby is it so I can't.

Um staff, thank you for the um uh survey.

The it's it's it's interesting.

It's when you look at the map, it's uh it's really hard to uh look at the two parts.

You know the the area around um um the um um galloping goose ENN corridor section there.

Uh that's one portion and the other portion.

It's almost like there's two halves.

Um and it would be it'll be interesting to see what um and because we're not gonna be making any distinctions um in in the survey about uh people feel that um both sides and both ends are can have the same amount.

But it was, I do recall that we had an open house um at um uh the the Scottish Center, and talking to Jen generally about the OCP and got a very strong reading at the time that the individuals, participants, were very keen to protect Millstream and very concerned about Millstream in terms of the estuary, in terms of the history of landslides, and we know it's a it's a total red zone as far as the tsunami is concerned.

And it has, as our urban forests uh study is soon to be coming, the most um uh incredible section of forest.

So this is a land use designations, discussions on heights, and we certainly talk about uh transportation issues.

When will the environmental parks uh parks, parks and environment and sensitive ecosystem components be woven uh in consideration of the this corridor?

So part of that conversation would be hopefully with through these workshops talking about from a land land use perspective and also also a policy perspective because this is a new a new section, uh kind of a new thing that we're exploring more deeply through this OCP update.

Um where we're also going to be doing a review uh of our general policies um in the coming months, and I suspect that there'll be an opportunity to get more into those details as well as we review uh other sections of the of the uh the document uh including environments uh parks and um uh I I think that'll come up then.

I thank you and and that that's that's helpful.

Um when I look at the uh the study then where people have uh you know they give a choices about industrial and commercial and then residential.

Uh again, we have different parts, uh obviously the the portions along Atkins Road and Byron Road, where there's a great promise of uh significant density that would uh benefit you know, you know, help the park and be along the trails and so on, but people don't think of that as a housing aspect.

They look maybe they're gonna be looking at other portions of the uh of the study and say, oh no, I don't want housing in in the commercial area, you know, we could have the D and D do their job here.

So it it's um do we we don't have any sense of uh an opportunity for public to be able to pinpoint where they would like to see the commercial, where they would like to see in the industrial or or the residential.

We're not giving that the that sense of it all to the chair, we we could add a uh a question in the survey to uh do something like that.

We've we've done something like that in the past.

Um I think with these surveys, we've also had conversations about uh them being quite onerous or long, and um this was just a first attempt.

So if that's something that uh the the committee would like to see added to the survey, we can uh we can try uh adding kind of a a pinning uh call it a a pin mapping mapping feature in the in the survey.

I think with the the workshops, that's that's definitely uh an aspiration of mine to uh get feedback from the the members of the uh business and land uh owner community, whether uh whether they see certain things in this area.

Um uh and um certainly from the the the public as well.

But again, those are difficult things to ask in a survey, and I thought that would be probably better to do in a in a workshop.

Um but yeah.

I certainly hope that we get a lot of a good turnout in the workshops to hear that thank you i move that we approve uh uh that we approve the survey with the the um changes recommended by the ocp um committee and that um those are provide a link to the housing needs report in the preamble um shorten the preamble considerably, please.

Add landmarks on the maps to allow for better orientation, remove uh reaffirming questions on density that were previous previously asked in the community growth survey.

I think those you know somebody was very astute in noting that and reduce the number of open edited questions.

Okay.

Thank you, um counselor.

Um we do have a staff's recommendation simply to receive.

Yeah.

Yeah, but but um had had staff incorporated the the feedback from the advisory committee.

To the chair, no.

Uh I think to keep things simple, if I I think if if the intent of this committee is just to incorporate that feedback, I think uh staff are you were expecting this kind of motion, correct?

Correct.

Right.

Oh, okay.

I'll second counselor lemon's motion.

Any further discussion?

Yeah, this is more of just a it's not so much on the motion I'm happy to receive.

I I I just wanted to say I share Jerry's comments that there's so much text in there that we're gonna lose people.

And I know once no one's gonna read some of these three paragraphs and there's like six paragraphs in a row and no one's gonna read that.

So maybe if you can find a way of skipping shrinking that up and just having the questions, people will are more likely to go to them.

Okay.

Yeah, no, I I can stick I could just I just have a question for for staff.

If in your I I I always get confused about the the transit part and so the the 200 meters the zero to two hundred meters two hundred meters to four hundred meters uh what was actually mandated by the province and and if you could just clarify that for us somewhere in in your discussion be really helpful.

Through the chair, I I have a slide that should provide some clarity on that.

I just wanted to clarify which was officially mandated by the province.

And because I understood the slide, but I just didn't know what the province forced us to do.

All right, thanks, Carol.

Uh so purpose of the night's uh this presentation is to introduce the proposed amendments to the town's official community plan to align with the town's five and twenty-year housing need calculated in the recent interim housing needs report.

It is also to ensure that the OCP includes housing policies and that it addresses each class of housing needed and identified in the housing needs report uh by December 31st of 2025, so this year, and it's in accordance with the local government act.

And then finally, that the amendments include uh the addition of new policy with respect to um supporting mixed-use developments uh for um developments that are greater than four stories or four stories in a greater rather.

The draft amendment bylaw has been attached to the staff report and uh is available for review.

Next slide, please.

So I'm just going to run through just at a very high level what the proposed amendments are.

Like I said, they're in the the attachment.

Um so for the first three, um, these are to do with the uh the land use designation map.

So we're going to be doing a uh consolidation of the residential and large lot residential land use designations and creating a new proposed small-scale multi-unit housing land use designation.

The two new land use designations uh include a hospital transit oriented area and a new neighborhood village, and I will show a map what these look like in a few slides.

There's also updates to any relevant policies to ensure consistency with the provincial housing legislation.

This includes a couple policies that were either revised or added, and that would include a new policy, HS 1.12, which is non market housing, and the intent of that policy is to support the development of non market units.

This is uh in relation to the housing legislation that's come out.

And then there has also been a revision to an existing policy, HS 1.9 uh titled Innovative Approaches, and that was uh the addition of adding shelters for uh persons experiencing homelessness, again with the intent of uh meeting all classes of housing identified in the housing needs report.

In addition to that, uh there was the uh a new section called housing needs requirements.

Uh it's a new subsection under section three of the uh housing uh in the official community plan.

This is a new uh proposed section that details uh the housing needs requirements and the the types of housing uh that are required uh to meet your housing require uh demand between 2021 and 2020 uh or 2041 rather, and uh finally the the policy uh for uh mixed commercial development and that would be uh is be being proposed to be uh located underneath the land use and urban design section and is encouraging uh development that is four stories or greater to include commercial space or public use space.

Next slide please so this is just a bit of an overview of the the process or two processes that are going on currently.

So the amendments that I just spoke to uh are highlighted in red.

And we can see that we are currently uh September 2025.

So introduced the draft OCP amendment bylaw to committee the whole.

And we're looking at uh having a potential public hearing and uh well it will there will be a public hearing but potentially in October followed by final adoption in November.

Rough timeline uh knowing that we have to complete uh adoption prior to December 31st of 2025.

Concurrently with this process we'll be doing uh engagement on the remainder of the official community plan.

So council may recall that we combined phases one and two, so we'll be doing engagement on the Western Gateway corridor.

We'll also be doing a general policy review, which is scheduled to take place uh later this fall, November to December.

And what we're working towards is a final draft uh OCP in uh March of 2026.

So just for clarity, the the intent of the updates that we're speaking to tonight are uh largely they're they're focusing on the uh housing legislation and the requirement to meet the December 31st, 2025 deadline.

Next slide, please.

So I have a few slides here just showing what the land use designation maps look like.

Um we can flip back and forth between them uh if we have questions uh after the presentation.

This is the existing land use designation uh designation map taken from the uh official community plan.

So this is the 2011 uh official community plan.

Next slide, please.

For comparison, very hard to read what the land uses are.

But what we've what we've seen change here is that all of the yellow is what is represented as the new small-scale multi-unit housing land use designation.

Next slide, please.

And if we zoom in on this area here, we'll see two new land use designations.

The first is the hospital transit oriented uh land use designation, and the second in uh and sorry, that one is in purple, and then the the second is the neighborhood village uh land use designation.

Next slide, please.

From a just just wanted to illustrate what what's actually changed.

So again, looking at the the new small scale multi user housing land use designation, this is a combination of the all existing parcels that were designated large lot residential and then uh uh and residential.

The intent is um to be consistent with what was passed uh via a zoning bylaw amendment with the new uh SMA regulations.

Nothing's changed in terms of uh uses, uh the number of stores or the uh number of uh dwelling units.

Everything is consistent with that uh zoning bylaw amendment that's taken place uh last year.

Next slide, please.

And then just from a again, just illustrating what's actually changed within the hospital transit oriented area and the neighborhood village.

The hospital, for example, has been designated uh or is currently designated community facility, and some of the surrounding uh parcels of land were designated either intensive mixed use or mixed residential.

Those three are now combined into a new uh land use designation, so the hospital transit oriented area.

And then uh similarly for neighborhood village, uh, there were mixed residential and residential land use designations, and they are now uh combined to uh include a new neighborhood village land use designation.

Um, and this was uh to uh follow the uh legislation through the uh local Government act and um uh follow the the guidelines that the province has set out for municipalities in terms of the number of stories and the FSR that's permitted and the general uses that would be permitted in these areas at a high level would be mixed use apartments, visitor accommodations, restaurants, retail, office, civic use.

The one note I'll make is that despite having a land use designation, there's not a change to the zoning.

So if there was an interest to come forward, as we discussed with council in the past, uh a rezoning application would be required.

Next slide, please.

So the recommendation is quite lengthy.

I will not read everything.

But what staff have prepared as a recommendation is that the committee recommend the following points to council in order for staff to prepare the necessary bylaw amendment to amend the official community plan bylaw number 811 2011.

And that includes adding a new subsection housing need requirements in section three housing, revising an existing housing policy HS 1.9.

Next slide, please.

Adding a new policy HS 1.12, deleting existing large lot residential and residential land use designations and creating a new small-scale multi-unit housing land use designation.

Next slide, please.

Adding a new hospital transit-oriented area.

Land use designation.

Next slide, please.

Adding a new neighborhood village land use designation and adding a new policy LU 4.1.4 mixed commercial development.

And um I believe that is the final slide of the presentation.

Thank you.

Mayor Tobayas, why don't you go first?

Kick it off.

Okay.

Thank you, Chair.

Um, I've got a couple of questions.

One is uh firstly, are all of these requirements associated with the provincial requirements for under your uh recommendation for bylaw 811?

There's nothing that we've added, they're all Bill 44 or other bills from the province.

Uh through the chair, the only uh the only amendment that is not provincially required is the uh the addition of the policy uh for mixed commercial development.

However, council may recall that we had talked about that being uh incorporated into uh this this uh uh bylaw amendment um prior to the December 31st deadline.

Okay, I'd I'd be happy with that, uh colleagues.

Um, as long as we specifically spell out what is a provincial requirement and what is not, because uh Sterling, correct me if I'm wrong, but these are the amendments we're going to have to pass for Christmas this year.

That's why we're doing it now, right?

And it would be just good to have them labeled as required in Bill 44 X, so that council knows, the public knows that these are this is why we're doing this by this date, and that's why it's important the stuff that council wanted, it would be a council initiative.

But um just would it be possible to label them as such so that uh it's clear in our in our minutes and our uh um uh and in the amendment itself that that bylaw has um associated associated legislation with it, so we tack that on to it.

So if somebody's searching for bill X, it shows up in our bylaw, not saying that the province would be searching for our bylaws and see how that compatible they would be with the legislation, but is that possible to do Sterling?

Uh through through the chart, yeah, I think um we could put a note um at the end of each of these uh recommended amendments uh with a a simple bill 44 bill 47 um unless Leanne has other ideas we could also do something in the staff report itself it also helps in searching them right if you're searching them to see compliance or effects of bylaw in the bill it's easier to find them but Leanne I think you had a comment yeah um through the chair uh thank you Mary Tobias for that question um in the actual amendment bylaw we could um include uh a preamble um and just to as a um an explanation for this particular bylaw so we could look at into into that uh if that would be helpful.

Yeah and anything that's annotated at the uh at the bottom of it in like here's the legislation the section um uh that it came up with it's just a brief footnote on to each part so that if somebody is walking through it compliant compliant compliant it's just easier for them to do as well um so the chair I just want to make one note is that it's not advisable to put section numbers in our OCP because sometimes the section numbers in local government act can change and then it no longer aligns.

So we may want to be careful about doing that, but we can make sure that it is clear in the bylaw um just the the the purpose of these amendments and um yeah from there.

Yeah, thanks.

I'm just looking for a footnote, and if the reference changes are no logical applicable, we'll have to change it anyway.

The other thing is the wording around transit-oriented area, and I just want to be consistent.

There is tier four and five, but you've got a 200 uh meter buffer and a 400-meter buffer.

I think uh if we just put like tier four and or tier five and tier four there uh as it corresponds with your transit-oriented area, it would just keep the same nomenclature there as opposed to looking at adding the term buffer in there.

So I'll get sure okay.

Thank you.

Uh one of the things Sterling mentioned and and and so I'm a little bit confused so the province is established that we have say in the village uh neighborhood village area that that uh you're allowed up to six stories so and a rezoning is required but if somebody comes in for eight we can reject it but if somebody comes in for six we have even though there's a rezoning we can't reject the the application through through the mayor, uh through the chair, pardon me.

Um you you can't reject it based on heightened density oh so what so what things can you re reject it for?

And and and I'm not thinking we should reject everything.

I'm just curious because so height and density we because it the height and density is set uh by legislation.

That's correct.

So uh yeah, so through the chair.

So if um if the town receives a rezoning application for a 10-story building, um the the the we council um is not can't not can't decline the reason the application because it's 10 10 stories, basically.

Okay, uh I've got a question.

Um on page 13 of the OCP draft, um you set a table of housing needs, and um the first housing need type is extreme core housing need, where in five years we have to provide, I guess, uh 43, 44 spaces.

Um, so you've given us two policies.

Is that the policy we're we're revising for innovative approaches, shelters for persons, um, experienced homelessness?

Are those the extreme, or is this this someplace that we're going to allocate the hospital to um and the province to put in some kind of facility?

Through through the chair, um thank you for the question, Councillor Rogers.

So these these particular numbers here are are derived from our housing needs report.

Right.

So based on um a variety of data that was used to um come up with these numbers.

So uh we staff like we didn't come up with these particular numbers.

It was based on the um heart tool um that was um um established by the province.

Um but um these are this is what are based on our population and bright and based on a variety of other variables, these these are the um these are the housing needs need need these the the these are the um the number of units um the housing needs and how many um and the housing supply that we'll need in order to um meet the need um for these different um types uh sorry the experience experience homelessness but I'm still confused what the extreme core housing needs, what those, you know, where would we put those?

Because we need to put 43 somewhere, and what will those be uh in um in terms of resources and funding and goodness knows what?

Um, so through the chair, I'll have to look up the definition, but um the extreme core housing need, what that means is that the percentage that a household is spending on on housing, like a percent of household income is spent on housing.

So I believe it might be over 50% of household income on housing.

That's what that means.

But I have to um just double check that I got that percentage right.

It it's not it's not has to do with people who are acquiring um I'm who are hard to house, or it's it's how much um household income is spent on housing.

Pardon me?

Yeah, thank you.

My challenge is to try to figure out the policy that you've got here to those columns, you know, are the the lines, the the rows.

And I I think I'm hearing you that um uh the extreme core housing need is actually related to policy HS1.11 non market units uh for the lower income populations.

If I'm wrong, you know, we got until next meeting so you can sort this out and and uh you know give us assurances of of what it is.

And I guess speaking that what uh one of the recommendations is to revise the innovative approaches by adding shelters, plural.

So we're going to be um uh having uh one of our options is to have shelters for, you know, you know, really?

We're gonna have more than one shelter in a in a town our size with you know the kind of geography and and uh close knit quarters.

I mean I really do wonder what smooth neighborhood this would be in.

Or is it going to be the um the new gateway corridor.

It it really is interesting.

We've got the innovation but we speak nowhere to the um you know and that's a policy but you know when you got a policy you're driven to it.

So I'm be more than curious to to um uh for staff to help justify um shelters and um and because as the mayor says we're going to be identifying which things are expected you know uh required by the province but we're gonna be having to um speak to the to the public on where how much do we have an answer well the i'm sorry we've got the innovation um and innovative approach but it it worries me that we've actually you know said uh yeah the way it is this is an OCP that's gonna have some very big struggles how do we avoid those struggles?

This is it is a policy, so it is a high-level uh document we're still working with at the at an OCP level.

Uh to the chair, if I yeah, maybe just um offer some insights.

Um shelters would probably be done through a uh a nonpro-profit or some type of housing provider.

Um there's nothing to say that one shelter could accommodate all 43 people, and if there were demands that changed in the future to house more than 43 people, um we might need to have more than one shelter.

The the specifics of where and when i i don't think a staff can answer that.

Um that would be decided um when an application comes forward when there was an interest in in doing so um and there is demand based on the the report but um i don't think uh myself or our director of development services can speak to uh location at this time yeah so we're gonna we're gonna have to think about that okay cash time action uh so yeah yeah um so i i don't really see a lot of developers wanting to come up or even the the province to build social housing uh in the province.

So I think of if we sort of wait for a developer to come in and or someone to come up and buy a expensive piece of property and try to put social housing.

I like we're running out of land to do that.

But one of the things council has over the years asked staff to come back with is like 5% of all new units having to be affordable.

And so I think that's about the only way we'll do it is if we actually put in place a policy that requires a certain number of you new units to be affordable under whatever did to meet those requirements.

So maybe if staff could sort of dig up the recommendations council had previously made and bring it back to us, maybe that's something we can look at incorporating into uh the OCP or into zoning, because again, that's probably the only way we're going to do it is if council mandates a portion of new units to be social housing or affordable.

Just just regarding uh through the chair just regarding that note on um percentages um we have discussed in internally as a team about uh about that that would probably better be better to wait until we have our housing policy review which is coming in uh the end of this year.

So when we when we do our general policy review, that's when we would look at uh you know additional additional digital housing policy.

Um, unless leanne, you have any additional.

Um so through through the chair, um, yeah, so those those types of um policies can be something we would we would want to look at as um as part of um consultation and um on the housing section of our OCP.

Uh and um and substantial amount of work has been done by the town over you know in actually last few years on on this motion about integrating um affordable housing requirements and projects, and staff can definitely dig that that up and bring and just share those reports with council again.

Um but one thing I just want a point of clarification that I wanted to provide um with respect to an earlier comment, the um the policy H HS 1.9 um is an existing policy in the 2011 OCP, it's already there, and um what under the legislative requirements um for these updates uh requires that um we have housing policy that addresses the different classes of housing needs, so the seven different classes, and this is all described in the staff report.

And so what staff has done is uh we already have a housing policy which is HS 1.9, and um, in order to address the class of the the um the pardon me the the the the shelters uh class of housing, we added that to policy HS 1.9 um along with the other classes that are in that particular policy.

So again, it's very high level.

Um and um but again we are required under the legislation to address each class of these housing of each class of housing in the OCP amendment in these policies and in these OCP amendments.

So that's how staff came up with this.

No, I I completely understand.

And it yes, it's it's an appropriate policy section, you know, existing to to put it in.

Uh it's just when the rubber's gonna hit the road, but it's okay, I've already figured out where it's gonna be.

Yeah, the um and to be clear and just a reminder for council, we have not zoned that way.