Committee of the Whole

Good afternoon and welcome to the committee whole meeting for the town of View Royal for Tuesday, December 12th.

Uh, we recognize the Laquanguan speaking people known today as the Esquimalt Nation and Songhees Nation, and that their historic connections to these lands continue to this day.

This afternoon we will hear from the public uh during the public participation portion of the agenda, and this evening we'll hear from the public during the public participation and question period portions of the agenda.

Uh for those participating by telephone.

If you wish to provide comments, call 778-402-9227.

And when prompted, enter conference ID 914050952 pound.

At the appropriate time in the agenda, I will then announce the last four digits of your phone number, ask you to mute the live webcast to avoid feedback, ask you not to use your speakerphone to ensure sound quality, and then to unmute yourself by pressing star six.

To begin, please indicate the name and uh street for the record.

Uh speakers will have five minutes each to speak during the public participation and two minutes to ask a question during question period, and you will be timed.

This meeting will be recorded by participating in this webcast.

You are consenting to being recorded, and the recording will be available on the town's website for future access.

So, with that, um, can I get a motion to approve the agenda?

Moved by councillor Mattson, seconded by Councillor Lemon.

All in favor.

Any opposed?

Seeing none opposed.

Uh, can I get a motion to uh adopt the minutes of the previous meeting that was on the 14th?

No.

Moved by Councillor Rogers, seconded by Councillor McKenzie.

Any errors or omissions?

All those in favor?

Any opposed?

Seeing none opposed.

Uh that brings us to petitions and delegations, of which Elman, I don't believe we have any today.

Uh, and our first public participation period, which because I spoke really fast, nobody uh at home probably caught up with me.

Claire, it's up to you unless these folks want to say something.

Nada.

Uh so nobody in the room, Carl, is there anybody online that wants to participate in the public participation period?

Knowing that they can do it after our break as well.

Mayor Tobias, we have no callers so far this afternoon.

Okay, and just a reminder we're going to be breaking a little bit earlier in the schedule to allow for uh meeting with residents, and we'll start the um reconvene at seven this evening as well.

So I think we're down to the business items.

So I'll pass the chair to Councillor Brown.

Thank you, Mary Tobias, and thank you everyone for coming and receives and greetings to you all.

Um Christmas, of course, Christmas and and uh New Year's are typically a happy time, but uh it certainly can be a troubling time, and certainly uh our superintendent can attest to some of the issues that you deal with around this time of year.

So uh encourage people if they're um having you know suicidal tendencies or or mental health issues, there is helplines to call.

And uh I know I think I believe you've got your people online now, your council council that that attend with members on issues in January.

Excellent.

So maybe you can talk a little bit about it when you give your report.

So um on that note, I'll turn it over to uh Superintendent Preston.

Thanks, uh Counselor.

Appreciate that.

Mr.

Mayor, Council, thanks for having me.

I appreciate we're a little pressed uh for time from my understanding.

So I'll try to go through this as quick as possible.

Thus far, we've had uh 3,081 general occurrences that we've attended to this year, which is a 14% increase uh year over year from uh last year.

So that equates to 376 more files than uh than we attended to last year.

Uh unfortunately, we have seen a significant increase in uh violent crime uh from last year.

It's up 24% uh from last year.

So that is significant.

And that uh violent crime uh encompasses common assaults, uttering threats, harassing uh communications.

Those are the top three that uh would be considered for violent crime offenses.

Um, so to put that in perspective, we had 113 last year to date.

We've had 140 uh incidences thus far this year.

Uh property crime is uh increased six percent last year.

If you recall last year, it was uh I think it was fairly high last year as well.

Um we do see a lot of uh shoplifting.

Um, and to that end, we've been um our crime reduction unit's been working feverishly with the LPOs throughout various businesses, including those here in View Royal, um, to do some undercover work and to combat some of the the rampant shoplifting.

I'll touch base a little bit more on that in a minute here.

Um we had an 18% increase of files at the uh Great Canadian Casino, so that's uh 14 files more than last year.

So thus far we've had 92 times we've been to the uh casino this year.

Um 5% increase uh to the hospital.

We've been to the hospital 230 times this year.

And files with mental health component, uh, that's increased five percent uh this year over last as well.

Um traffic stats.

Uh we've had 49 traffic uh our traffic unit in View Royal in the last month.

Here we did 49 traffic stops.

Uh we handed out 10 mornings, 11 speeding tickets.

We had 20 no insurance or vehicle license uh VTs and one prohibited driver.

Um Watkiss Way, View Royal, um, enhanced traffic patrols resulted in uh 12 uh sorry, number of patrols in in November was 18, school zones was seven, speeding uh 10, um warnings were one, speeding uh charge was nine, uh uninsured vehicles was five and no driver's license.

Uh actually we didn't find anybody with no driver's license uh that month.

Um December 2nd, uh traffic conducted counterattack on the 300 block violent highway and found one prohibited driver.

On November 30th, we had a search warrant executed at home in View Royal for child pornography.

Uh the suspect uh is a resident um in View Royal.

Um December 2nd initially we it was reported that the there was a um a man that entered a home firing what appeared to be a gun-off.

It actually turned out that was in uh in the Songhis uh nation.

And so um to date we have no arrests.

Uh the witnesses and victims haven't been overly cooperative throughout that investigation.

Um community policing attended the Juan de Fuca Rec Centre um youth night, and we've been engaging with the uh the rec center.

We've been handing on popcorn, it's been extremely well received by the uh by the youth and their parents.

Um the members at the office um we've we've um got 15 hampers that are uh and we've started to hand those out to needy families throughout the community that we've all pitched in and and got um over a six-week period, and so I'll touch back on the the shoplifting because it really is becoming a very chronic problem in the in the area here.

Over a six-week period, the crime reduction unit uh was spending one day a week on back uh combating uh shoplifting.

Um we created 16 files in that week and 22 arrests in the West Shore area, including that uh that in V Royal.

Um, you know, of note, during that blitz, we identified a prolific offender uh who had stolen over $150,000 worth of stuff over the past year from various Ronas uh across British Columbia and Alberta.

So we were able to arrest that individual and putting an end uh to his crime speed across uh Western Canada here.

Um in another instance, um, and this is similar to one we had last year, actually.

There was a male and a female who went on a uh theft rampage in um shoppers drug mart, and they've stole twelve thousand dollars over a week period um with high-end perfumes and and uh articles.

Um and that uh led in in conjunction with the Sidney RCMP was also um dealing with these same individuals.

We ended up arresting uh three individuals, two are facing deportia uh deportation to uh Romania uh during the time.

So I'm gonna stop there just in the spirit of time here, and I'll open it up for questions.

Yes, thank you for the report.

I'm just curious.

Uh so you mentioned the the home invasion one that was actually in the Songhiz nation.

However, the it I've noticed that it's often, you know, in the news, uh, said to be the town of View Royal.

So I was just wondering, is that a news thing or is it the uh through the police that it's being reported that way?

Yeah, I think it's depends on which time you're referring to.

And this time, I believe um our telecoms uh dispatched and and uh stated it was in View Royal.

And when we actually did the uh the check on the computer, it turned out it was actually in Songhis.

So I think that's where the confusion uh laid in this particular instance.

Um yeah, it's uh it's obviously not uh good.

I don't want to be casting the view royal in a in a negative light unnecessarily there.

So no, I and I I think the identification of obviously their their land, um, but also it I think I saw on social media some people uh when it comes out as View Royal, uh wondering how close it is to them.

And I mean, I know it is still close to to us, but I think it set off a few alarms.

Yeah, no, fair enough.

And I think it was fairly uh I think it was fairly close in this particular instance.

Um, you know, and and the fact uh, you know, when an incident happens, uh just because we have a line on the on the map uh separating one one side of the road to the other, you know, I think uh oftentimes if if there is cause for concern, if it's not a you know domestic related something that the public should be worried about or concerned about, we'll certainly let them know or um try to let them know that they should be concerned and lock your doors.

Uh for instance, I think there was one in Langford there that was kind of a random uh it was actually on the same night.

Uh it was not related, uh, which is um very unusual to have two home invasions on one night that uh aren't related.

Um and in that particular instance right now, I don't think we we know the individual that uh we have any leads on that one from what I understand.

Council Batza.

Yes, thank you.

I was just wondering about the consequences for the shoplifters.

I was encouraged to hear that uh they've they've shipped they ship some folks back to Belgrade or Romania.

So yeah.

Um I mean, obviously there's uh I think everybody knows that there's varying degrees of um court sanctions and it all depends on on past record, age.

Um, you know, there's there's so many uh varying factors that that contribute to um how the individual send what we do, if it's uh you know all one off or we don't believe that uh sending somebody to court is probably gonna curb or have any uh any impact or very or little impact.

We we do our best to do restorative justice, which we actually seem to have the the best result.

And we've been doing a ton of restorative justice uh um I don't know what it called circles uh at our detachment there.

Um that's been spearheaded by our auxiliary coordinator who uh who does a fantastic job with those.

Yeah, I was just sort of I mean, part of the question, I was just wondering if we have the same sort of revolving door process that they do in the states where as reported in the states.

I don't uh I I I'm not sure, counselor, I you know we get them to court and then from there, um, yeah, oftentimes unfortunately we do see the the individuals, the same individuals back.

Um I know that there is a certainly a movement afoot with the violent offenders.

Um, you know, I think that the province and the feds are certainly taking notice of, you know, we always talk about the select few that uh create the most havoc and the most dangerous.

And I know that there is certainly a movement for bail reform and for um sentencing reform, I think regarding violent offenders, which is welcome.

Um you know, I think that all starts with councils like yourself pushing pushing upwards.

So, you know, as your small, your small businesses continue to get um hit hard with shoplifting I would strongly encourage you to pass the push the messaging forward to the province and to the uh the feds that um you know that that it's not acceptable and and some of the ramifications and repercussions um you know these small business owners uh they're gonna have to close their doors a lot of them I mean we've seen large scale businesses large commercial businesses shut their doors say it's not worth it in fact we have one grocery store that's in the West Shore and I won't name it but um they've they've said and this is a major chain that if things don't change, they may have to shut their doors because of the rampant theft.

You bet.

Councillor Rogers and Councilor Lemon.

Yes, thanks uh the I guess a similar sort of theme with uh the assault on uh businesses, you know, not only the shoplifting, but the vandalism that we uh you know see all the time in in uh um in the headlines, um, particularly in Victoria and Vancouver.

Uh is the uh you know those vandalism issues um uh becoming a concern to um both businesses and the police here on the West Shore?

Um I haven't noticed a huge, I mean there has been definitely more uh on Goldstream there.

We've noticed uh a number of businesses there that have certainly been vandall.

Um you know, I haven't noticed a you know um a sequence of events here recently that uh that's been brought to my attention.

Normally I would note I would note that if it was uh sequential I see it every every day I look at the password sheets I haven't noticed a a continued issue with uh vandalism.

I'm so far ever lucky.

You know the uh in the past you've mentioned uh concerns about um um gangs and um their establishment in in Lower Island Victoria area um what's what's the uh sense of it um today and going into 24 it's still just as a big a concern as ever uh you know the rapid growth of this area um like I said trying to trying to keep a lid on it as uh as best we can because trying to play catch up later is very difficult.

Um so our our members have done a fantastic job.

Um we've got a lot of ongoing files right now with uh our our drug section, our drugs and organized crime section, our uniform and gang enforcement team.

Um they are continually um hampering or hammering down on on individuals that uh are less desirable for your communities, and they'll continue to do so as long as uh you know we're adequately resourced and we don't have to pull resources back to the road or anything like that.

Uh to put it in perspective, we're up to I think uh 25,000 calls for service uh this year uh with 110 police officers.

I didn't I know Saanich, for instance, uh they've got 166 police officers in there, and then they've got about 1,500 less files this year.

We are busy right now.

It's uh yesterday was 60 68 files, I want to say in a 12-hour period.

Um, and you're dealing with about eight eight members, nine members dealing with those files.

So they're we're very busy right now.

I think all the all the agencies right now uh in the area are feeling feeling a lot of pressure.

And uh it's uh you know, you can see it on the members' faces, there it's it's difficult right now.

Thank you.

Uh just as uh aside, the um Ministry Highways is um undergoing the um um transit expansion uh project from telecom, you know, into that area, and uh they are going to be replacing the bridges.

And so uh when I was there with um some steam keepers, uh we were talking about um the homeless uh encampments here and and i think that one of the things was dealing with step dead and and better uh design if you like um and uh those kind of issues so i i would hope that um staff and and you can uh reach out to the ministry and and take care of some of the issues that might lessen the number of calls and the number of concerns that the police have in that vicinity we're always happy to uh participate so yeah please invite us to that and be happy to uh to participate okay thank you thank you counselor Lemont.

Oh, I hope good people continue to sign up to to serve in in your line of work, superintendent.

It's difficult time to be a police officer.

And but but I'll just I I heard um Del Manic, Chief Manic, yesterday on the radio speaking about shoplifting and how rampant it is and how how businesses are just giving up, um, like you said.

Um I I think my question more or less got answered.

And you're not a sociologist, so but I'll I'll just put this out there.

Is it your sense that it's um you know the cost of living, and it's simply hard for people to make an eight meet and and it's people just trying to get you know Christmas on the table and under the tree for families, or is it more societal breakdown?

No, I think it's I think it's both.

I think it's uh we're we're we're seeing people that we would never see shoplift shoplift right now.

Um we're seeing mothers you know putting things in backpacks and strollers and stuff like that.

Uh some pretty some pretty sad stories.

Uh you know, everybody's seeing this.

Uh every agency right now is seeing that.

And I don't think it helps.

I mean, obviously there's uh we've got a huge uh addictions uh issue going on right now as well.

And um that obviously helps contribute to this to the issue as well.

So um, you know, oftentimes people say it's it's solely the you know, the mental health and addictions that are contributing to the higher uh shoplifting I wouldn't say that's accurate I mean I think that there's a lot of people that have lost their jobs this is an extremely high place uh cost of living to to live here and uh if you saw the sad stories that we see every day it it tears your heart out uh that that people have to resort to to stealing um even those baskets that uh we were handing out Cole Brewer our first nations police officer was saying that um he gave uh one of the baskets out and the and the mother actually dropped to her knees because uh um she was in such and she has children and it was uh you know it's such a desperate time right now.

And it just you hear stories like that and it just it tears at your heartstrings for sure.

Thank you.

Thanks.

And if we could just tell us a little bit more about the program that's coming in January.

Um unfortunately it's taken so long.

Yeah.

That'd be great.

Thank you.

You bet.

So our mental health and uh addictions team that's gonna be starting up with uh three police officers and three nurses there.

Um I believe two or three nurses, I um and so initially they had uh they didn't have nurses identified, and it's taken uh quite a long time here.

But we do have nurses that are identified that are just in the process of being uh security cleared.

And um, I'm told by January they should be on the ground.

We've got vehicles.

Our members are ready to go.

We're just waiting for the release from VHA from the nurses uh to to join our teams.

Uh we're very excited about the addition of this team here just because of the volume of calls.

And again, just the the I think matching the right personalities with uh certain calls and individuals is just so paramount.

So I think this is going to be um yeah a very advantageous for for this for the West Shore to have this team up and running here early in the new year.

Excellent.

Thank you very much.

I just had one question, Council, if you don't mind if everybody else is gone.

Um I I understand that the nationally we've rolled out a 988 number for uh for mental health um uh I guess to call does that have any linkage to nine one one or psychiatric services or will it?

I think they're just uh standing the service up now for yeah I don't I don't know exactly I'm I'm I'm sure we'll be briefed here shortly on exactly how the rollout's gonna look but obviously again anything to do with uh mental health uh we welcome it and yeah I can't wait uh to to see how I mean we'll attach whatever resources we can to that for sure thank you superintendent and have a great uh holiday with yourself for yourself and your family thanks uh have a great Christmas thanks very much for having me I think the chief final officer is up next or are you getting your right hand person to talk to the afternoon, Mayor and council members.

Thank you for having me today.

And I did bring backup today, but uh with your permission, uh, I'll make this short and sweet, and then I'd like to invite her up here to give a bit of a spiel about our some of our outreach, just for your awareness.

And uh good day to uh staff members from View Royal.

Um, so you have the stats in front of you for the last quarter.

Um, nothing earth shattering really to speak about.

Um the only thing I can probably draw your attention to, because I think it may have uh surfaced in your uh world here.

At one point in September, there was a dog attack that involved a postal worker in View Royal.

So I I know it kind of reverberated around uh council and stuff.

So yeah, I just wanted to provide some clarity on that.

And there may be some questions to follow, and that's okay.

Um yeah, it was uh one of course, that particular area, there's often there's um issues between neighbors that uh preexists even before this event happened.

And in this case, it was someone visiting and their dog basically uh trying to get him in the back of a pickup truck and sees the postal worker walking across on the on an adjacent property, and that dog goes, and of course, uh the neighbor who lives there, their dog follows, although their dog was not the actual biting or nipping.

Uh it was minor in nature, the uh the extent of the bite, um, but it did generate a lot of uh I think, social media, you know, frenzy, if you will.

At the end of the day, what we learned from this, all the parties were cooperative.

We did our process, issued the uh the appropriate uh active enforcement, uh, and and everybody was receptive to it.

It was really kind of a one-off, but it unfortunately, when people don't know all the facts, it tends to take off, take a life on its own.

Uh, the part that I was concerned about was the uh the media reference to referencing us as having directed them to cease services to the um to the area, to the block, if you will.

And that's categorically incorrect.

Uh we would never do that.

We certainly don't have that type of authority.

Um, and and I think it was just probably a conversation with a supervisor at postal uh outlining their process in order to um make the uh environment safe for their uh carriers so i just wanted to clear that up here so in case you get asked from from uh constituents that we certainly wouldn't direct them to stop a service of some kind and normally um any dog bite is a top priority uh at the CRD animal care services so yeah we would be dealing with it that day uh so just wanted to provide clarity on that uh short of that uh unless my questions, I'll open up to questions.

Yes, the counselor.

Yes, thank you.

I think before I was asking about what's an investigation look like.

And I was just looking at so 80% of the time is spent on investigation and 57 seven hour days are spent according to the stats here on investigation.

So what's investigation look like?

Uh what type of any investigation generically or just from your report so I'm just wondering like just just off the face 57 days seems like a lot of time.

So I'm just curious as to I'll give you uh the dog attack would probably be uh for context just because everyone was sort of familiar with that.

Uh by the time we get that uh and we have to document that, we have to triage that information.

Sometimes we get it from various sources um much uh akin to what the uh superintendent and his officers might do.

Our investigations are can be somewhat parallel.

They involve uh interviewing witnesses, uh attending the scene.

Uh a lot of times we will canvas a community area to see if there's some other extenuating circumstances or anything that might help us sort of get to the the cause and effect, how to how how we can resolve it.

Um a dog attack uh file, on average, a dog attack file can take a minimum of eight hours.

Totally dedicated to that officer, because you have to remember within that uh that model, these officers are also obliged to do the patrols in the parks.

So sometimes you can actually look at these stats and go, oh wow, there's not a lot of hours in patrols, but then you look over on the investigative side, you see the amount of hours.

And for a dog attack, that's the one that pretty much takes the most amount of time.

Um, I can truncate that back down to a barking dog issue.

Well, a barking dog issue can take potentially three to ten hours because they often are done in such a way as we uh we might and do we do the investigation, we give redirect to the the stakeholders, and then we have to monitor it.

And that could include in attending and and just sometimes you'll see a bylaw officer parked somewhere you know view royal ab and not even in front of anybody and that's exactly what they're doing they've got the window down and they're monitoring to see if that issue has resolved to a to a manageable uh amount welcome just a just a note I just want to because I used to do your the job you're doing now um uh twice a year I'd go to the different sorting stations, the one in Glanford and the one in Langford, just to talk to the postees about prevention preventing dog bites and I know that's one of the tools they have in their tool shed.

If it's an unsafe environment, they'll warn the people.

And if they don't do something or contain that dog, they can stop the delivery.

But that's that's strictly up to them.

Right.

Okay, good good to know.

Thank you.

Thank you.

So is this young lady gonna come up?

Yes, if there's no further questions, I'll invite my senior admin clerk, Coral Henderson, and she'll just uh give you um a little bit about our outreach program.

Thank you for your time.

Yeah, dog feature counseling.

Thank you so much for having me here today.

Thank you, Councillor Brown.

Um, I just wanted to touch, I was here a couple meetings ago about outreach.

Um, and I said I would come back with some information, so I have that with me today.

Um, our outreach programs right now are really based around responsible pet ownership.

We have seen the number of dog bites increase in all municipalities.

View Royal is by about five.

But it's all mostly based around people not controlling their animals.

So we're trying to do everything we can to educate people on the leashing and controlling and people that don't want to visit with someone else's dog.

We have one program that's my dog is friendly, and the other person is saying, I'm not, type of thing, right?

So it's not everybody likes dogs, nor do they want someone's dog running up to them and jumping on them.

Um, some people that walk them, the dogs are leash reactive.

Um, just for doing what I've done for so long, leash breeding is not a good idea.

Um, that also can just cause an issue, and the dog's not aggressive but will be when it's on a leash.

I have one of those as well, but otherwise she's a big furry mush.

Um, wouldn't hurt a fly.

But on leash, sometimes if someone gets in her area, she can cause some issues.

So we have um new things that have come out.

Responsible pet ownership is also picking up dog feces because it's full of bacteria and cause a lot of illnesses, especially to even other animals.

Um, a lot of people are reporting they're going to parks.

Some dogs eat some stuff like that and end up getting sick, and uh then it comes back to the municipality wondering maybe if they put a fertilizer out or something like that.

But it's really just dog poop that's been sitting around.

So we've got a bunch of programs about that, and we've been promoting that to um on our website and uh we've gone some outreach programs where we've been out there and handing out poop bags and leashes and we're kind of doing it in a way where we've given you every opportunity to be a good dog owner and when it comes to uh issues where they're not then you know we've already given you the tools or we give the tools to the people that don't have them you know like here's a leash you know this is like can I talk to you about leash walking and here's some poop bags please ensure that you pick it up.

We also have something coming out soon is a little, I thought this was cute um a thing that hangs on your poop bag where you can put a used one.

So you don't drop it on the trail and pick it up later.

You can carry it with you until you find a garbage can.

So in here is a whole bunch of our swag and uh things that we're handing out to everybody.

So I'll leave the bags up there for you guys to take when you're done.

No questions.

Counselor Lemon.

I think this is a great program.

I really like the my dog is friendly line because you I hear it all the time.

Yeah.

I'm wondering if you have this in you know the messaging for this it kind of um in a encapsulated so you could pass it on to our staffed for our our uh town newsletter.

Absolutely.

I see when I came here some of our posters are up, which is awesome.

And I can send um links to all of these information on our website.

And we have a couple more in development.

So as those come up, I'm happy to just send that along.

Super.

Thank you.

Welcome.

Council Rogers, then Mayor Tabaras.

Yeah, thank you.

Yeah.

How do you make this program available?

Do you hold workshops, arrange workshops in a Saint View Wall Park for folks?

Yeah, well well, our outreach program is now growing because we're getting more staff involved.

And so we will do pet events like the Pet Expo that was in Sanich.

We were there for two days and we promoted, um, picking up dog poop was the big part.

Um, so we had actually little poops that people could pick up.

They're fake.

Um, but the kids really got engaged and it was entertaining to see the kids going, Mom, see, we have to pick this up, right?

Um, and anytime there is an event, we went to V Royal Safety Day and we um promoted our emergency kits as well as this information about responsible pet ownership.

And then if anybody comes forward and they'd like some guidance on that, like Canada Post and other areas, we have gone out with like someone like our kennel master or myself to talk to them, or we you know can email back and forth.

But anybody that wants any type of information, our officers will also attend.

Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

Yeah, my question was on um anything you're seeing, perhaps with greater incidence of dog on dog kind of violence.

Is that an increasing thing or is that just per normal?

Yeah, um uh yes, it's uncontrolled dogs.

It's someone, and a perfect example is I'm walking my dog on a leash because she needs to be on a leash, and someone has an off-leash dog and they're yelling, it's okay, my dog's friendly.

Where I'm saying, Well, mine on a leash is working, so she's not friendly.

And it's not that she's not friendly, it's just um you're trapping a dog when you're you have them on leash and another dog's up in their business and everything, that dog can't go anywhere, and the first thing that happens is a bite.

And a lot of times people are upset because the dog that was on leashed that bit isn't really getting as much penalty as they think it should, but it's a provoked attack where the bylaw states that it's an unprovoked attack when they're declared dangerous.

Um, so this was provoked, right?

So uh explaining that View Royal doesn't have too many, which is great, but uh explaining that to a lot of people does bring a lot of clarity to it.

So it is increasing.

Everybody has dogs and multiple.

Yeah.

Thank you, uh Mark and Coral for coming today.

You guys are doing a great job.

Um, I hope I can still call you a young lady because you are compared to me.

However, Carl just became a grandparent for the first time, so congratulations.

Thank you.

And rest of the season to both you and your family.

Thank you so much as well.

Thank you for your report.

I noticed there was a large increase this year.

So I wonder has our the way we calculate the fees, is it changed over the years?

And like so, like we increase the rate that we're charging, and how does that work?

Uh through the chair, thank you for your question, Counselor Mattson.

So up until November 1st, the the rates have been consistent, the building permit fees have been consistent.

As part of the new building bylaw, we've made some slight adjust adjustments to the building permit fees, but they're not not considerable to make a huge impact on the increase that we've seen over this last year.

Okay.

Yeah, I just noticed there's like $600,000 more than last year.

So but that's got nothing to do with the rate we're charging.

That's just a function of how much building we're doing.

So the other question I had is there anything legally that's preventing us from say doubling or tripling the rates?

Building permit fees?

Um, well, it's cost recovery.

So that's how we um under the charter, we have to um our building permit fees are based on cost recovery.

Okay.

And do we have to actually calculate that and will we get our knuckles wrapped if we start making generating revenue through that?

Uh the mayor, I would have to um loop back to our legal counsel on that, um, just for uh uh to confirm our our response to that.

Um but our the legislation is pretty clear in terms of like fees.

Um municipalities do do fee reviews um as part of the building bar law.

We we did um and we did adjust a couple of our fees to um in response to fee for service because we were not um our fees were too low based on the amount of staff time that took to carry out various um permits, and so we did adjust them slightly in response to that and um as part of adopting the new building bylaw our fees and charges bylaw was updated concurrently okay thanks and and no don't have to bother asking our lawyer okay thanks counselor matsen so no further question call the vote all those in favor any opposed passed and that ends the uh protective services um portion of this meeting thank you councillor brown um and i will open the arts and culture uh portion of this meeting um a few small short reports um i was just at the uh year end meeting of the greater Victoria Library Board um this afternoon and uh I think I've I've made um alluded to an announcement coming and I will further allude to that announcement coming early January and that's really all I can say about that um but still um also uh the uh the library board budget as it affects View Royal we're looking at a 3.05 percent increase here in View Royal um which is I believe $48 thousand dollars in total.

I think um I just give me a second um so we're going from $597 to $48,000 lift in total.

The um cost of living and labor are the the main hits here.

And uh the uh the director of finance is in his last week.

And so I spoke to Maureen Sawa, the CEO today, and she's hoping, and I don't know how compelling my argument is, but she's really hoping that we don't want a report, a uh a presentation.

So if we do, we'll she'll we'll figure it out.

But I can probably I can provide the basic information um as I have it here, and it's just numbers and the expense of life.

Um other than that, um moving on to oh the Wanda Puca Performing Arts Society.

Um I we've we had our first um intermunicipal meeting last month, and we're gonna have the next one this week, Monday on Monday.

Um and so the first meeting was just simple largely to introductions and to um to um consider the terms of reference, but next up is looking at a venue, potential venues.

Um the West Shore grounds are a preferred choice at this point, and I do have it on authority that um the the uh chair or president, I guess, of the society met with the chair of the West Shore Parks and Recreation Society um earlier in the month or last month, and uh I I will have some information out of that at the next meeting.

Um reading center got all the files today.

Uh reading center is, as you know, is um closing.

Um it's last day, it's last day of service as a library is December 22nd.

There they there's a for rent sign up in their window, and um they're looking to already looking to unload um inventory, including um fixtures and every everything must go.

But I'm you know, I'm I'm thinking this this is I they invited me to a dinner, which was really kind, but I think we as a as a council should really take a look at how to properly acknowledge them.

My thoughts initially are, you know, along the lines of a council presentation, perhaps of a plaque, and then perhaps you know a gift of some kind where they can, you know, Christine can, you know, mark the years with her her volunteers.

So perhaps that's if if if if people here agree with that, perhaps I'll follow that up with staff.

Light up, light up your oil.

It's time to light up your oil again.

And staff, busy, busy staff, short staffed staff, but bless their heart, gone up gone up today with the social media campaign of, you know, encouraging people to to nominate um uh you know the the uh lighting presentations that have caught their eye and they're boy i cannot just on a night walk there are some dazzling ones ones that that weren't around last year it's it's really fantastic how the community is you know just brightening the season um deadline for nominations december 22nd and uh then i i think we can have the have the results the following week and hopefully present the the the awards to presumably the top three we haven't discussed that yet um before new year's and uh last thing in my arts and culture presentation is um and this is not a council activity per se um however, last year I organized, and it was it was it was enthusiastically attended, but not by many.

Some what we call there was a polar bear plunge at and calling it the Veroyal New Year's splash.

There were seven seven party dippers, including two council members last year, at Portage Park, and a small crowd of you know cheering enthusiastic onlookers.

I have it on authority that there will actually be three council members this year um and I you know anybody who's in town there's there's you know if it was just if it was just council alone we could meet the numbers as you tended last year um so keep that on your calendars uh two o'clock portage park january one um just come and have fun come and have fun if you if you don't want to get wet shame on you uh you don't want to get wet come and cheer come and cheer um and uh and you know spread the word spread the word it's just it's just good fun and that's all it is and that is my presentation so I'm transferring the chair to you didn't have a question oh my goodness yes I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm just wondering I'm I'm gonna come that's the plan um are you providing blankets and hot rum too after no no no it's BYOB okay thank you for the blanket too any other questions counselor yeah um keep us posted on if you need any help with the uh light shop thank you very much appreciate it okay there you go um mayor Tobias, I'm passing the chair to you.

Thank you, Counselor um lemon.

And we should have the your oil fire department maybe with the defibrillator on standby if uh all of us counselors are going for a dip in the uh in the water.

Um so just a brief chair's report and thank you, Councillor Lemon, for a financial expectation report for the budget.

I I think the message is finally getting out because um we don't control the finances for everything directly, whether it's one if you correct, there's there's things that we can approve in here.

Uh particularly there's lots going on with the CRD.

Um, and they have been pretty good at looking at uh uh the direction from the board was to keep their budget um under 4.5 percent for increases.

And they've been quite good about that.

Um some programs may be over, but the average uh is is not going to exceed 4.5%.

So that certainly helps out when it comes down to our budgetary planning that these things are relatively knowable and constant and uh don't have huge jumps to them.

So I thank you for that.

We've got a um staff report, I think, for budget variants and projects update from the manager of accounting.

Thank you, Mayor.

Uh yes, this is a standard uh budget variance report uh brought to you monthly.

Uh there's no presentation.

The recommendation is to receive for information.

Uh but staff are here to answer any questions you may have.

Thank you.

I have a couple questions.

Counselor Matson.

I'm delighted to see we still have a uh potential $1.4 million dollar surplus for the two items listed in the report.

But I was a little concerned, and you could tell me why I shouldn't be concerned, that government grants and transfers are down about a million dollars so far.

Or the variance is a million dollars.

So I just wanted to know if we're gonna get that million dollars since they're not giving us anything but grief.

I believe we have yet to receive our uh community works funding, our second payment.

Let's see here.

These dashboards are fantastic, by the way.

And casino would be the other one as well.

So with gas tax and uh the final quarter of casino, we should be close on track, anyways.

All right, so we haven't got the fund.

That's it.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Council Rogers.

Yes, on um uh schedule C the capital projects um now that we're at year end.

Uh one of the things that um and staff can help me, I'll work on the uh intersection improvements, how many can and watch this way.

Um we'd uh spent four of the sixty thousand.

Um and I guess what I'm I'm concerned about is um trying to get a handle of that intersection as uh the province has now identified the general area as a VGH interchange uh with all its bylaw must do's by June.

Thank you.

Um Mayor Tobias, yeah, this staff are working with the ministry on that intersection as multifaceted with the upcoming uh blink transit plus the uh bus and shoulders lane project uh is highly um optical, and um the ministry has hired a consultant to work on that.

At the same time, we are also working with that particular consultant, just makes a lot of sense um to look at the WACAS intersection.

Um half the intersection is within the ministry's purview.

So in terms of how little we've spent, it is because of the discussions that staff have needed to have with the ministry to utilize the consultant and to obtain an agreement with them.

That being said, the consultant is well on their way to providing an analysis and a report to us shortly.

And given the amount of information they need to absorb with additional accounts in the intersection, uh projecting with the information they have on the highway.

Uh it's all it's a lot to digest.

So it is um well on its way, uh even though the amount that we spent on it seems to be uh a lot lower than expected.

Thank you.

Uh two other points.

Um St.

Giles um lighting improvements.

Um uh the the again a couple of residents uh identified the issues of walking uh in the dark along that street um is there any particular holdup or is it just resources that um you know we could remedy the the lighting issue there.

I can confirm with staff on the actual details there.

The last time I've uh chatted with staff on that uh detail design has been well underway.

Um I believe half of the project can be done with current budgets.

Uh the other half would require um additional funding because the um the power service is a lot further away than expected.

Uh yeah okay yeah and my last question is um again thank you congratulations on on moving so well ahead on the Norwood Park uh any planned um opening grand opening day where counselors can jump on a slide uh mayor toias we can certainly uh let council know when the day of opening is and um and should they wish to go down that slide, uh, we'd be obliged.

Thank you.

Thank you councilor rogers, any other questions?

I'll move uh receipt.

Do I have a secondary?

Seconded by Councillor Brown.

All in favor?

Any opposed?

Um, thank you, staff, for your report.

I think that brings us down to Bill 44 2023 public meeting what we heard report.

Thank you, Mayor Tobias.

Um staff does not have a presentation.

Their motion is to receive the report.

If there are any questions, I hope I can answer them for you.

I'd I'd just like to say thank you for the staff for putting this together.

I thought it was uh pretty comprehensive to take both the notes from the public hearing, um, the survey results, plus the correspondence to get it together in a timely fashion.

So thank you very much for that.

And I'll see if council has questions.

Councilor Mackenzie.

Yes, thank you.

I have two questions.

I'm not sure if it's for staff or maybe for members of council.

However, uh, I understand that only a few counselors were provided with the copies of the invitations to the town hall and asked to distribute them by hand.

Um, as I was not included in this, I was wondering do we have any information on which neighborhoods received those 1,200 notices.

I I think I can answer that.

So some counselors did take it on to distribute them.

And I think um they distributed pretty much all of the royal.

As much as they possibly could.

So they there were a couple of counselors, but mainly uh citizens picked it up and uh and distributed those.

And I just wanted to point out it wasn't because we were we did because they knew us, they pressed us into service as opposed to wasn't a council initiative.

That's part of it.

So it was the the public petitioning counselors to join them to distribute advice the other way around.

Okay.

Okay.

Uh perhaps I'll ask for more clarity later because I'm not aware of Craig Flower area receiving some, and I would have happily distributed those if if I had been aware.

Um my second question, uh so there were many comments regarding biased language in the survey and messaging around the town hall.

Um again, I was not in uh given the opportunity to review any of these materials.

So I was wondering who was involved in drafting and approving them.

It was myself and staff that did the questions, but I I can say from the questions, there was a yes, a no, and comments were generally all questions.

And if there was something specific that people had instead of just a general, I don't like the way this is going, um, that would be great feedback to get.

So if you've got anything more than uh a per perceived bias one way or another, then then be happy to entertain it to get it better next time.

Yes, I'm happy to show specific examples, uh particularly in the survey.

Um, I can share those with you afterwards.

And I'll save my other comments for a discussion section.

Counselor Matson.

Yeah.

I'm not sure if you have the answer yet because I don't know if you guys how much time you've had to look through this.

But the province has set a whole bunch of deadlines.

What if we don't meet them?

Are there any consequences?

Yeah, there there will be consequences.

Ministerial orders.

What does that mean?

Thanks.

A bad report card.

So, yeah, so what it means is that if we do not um amend our zoning bylaw or the OCP by certain dates, then um the province will basically come in and um and and issue a ministerial order.

Um and um and that order will be in place until bylaws are are updated and adopted.

Okay, thank you.

And there are regulations, and uh when the minister, actually when the premier had announced that um that because they put the links on the website, um policy still has to go through regulations.

They have to be submitted, they have to be approved, and then they have to be posted.

So to date, and my question is to council and to staff, to date, I have received no formal direction, either in an email or a letter, to basically get on with the policy.

I've got a news release and I've got a couple of links on a website, but has staff to date received formal direction.

Through the mayor, we have not received a formal letter per se.

However, we received a last minute invite to attend a briefing yesterday morning.

And so I yeah, so I was aware of this and I reached out and then I got a link and I joined and got some more information in terms of what's coming down the pipeline and what um yeah what's what's basically the um what staff have to work on in the new year.

Thank you, Staff.

Did any council receive anything?

And and I forwarded that to you, I think, or or to Ivan um uh for that briefing.

I only had found out uh about that.

It was a bit of a reminder, but it wasn't actually not an invite, it was just kind of a link with a date on where it was.

So uh yeah, I just wanted to clear that we have at this point not received a formal direction to the town for um for the policy and uh and the regulation that comes out.

Yeah, thank you, Mary Tobias, and I will add that on last Thursday, December 7th or 8th, whatever the last Thursday date was, um, the province did publish the manuals on their website, uh, which are quite substantial.

Um, and um, but uh colleagues in other municipalities throughout the province um had quite a few questions at the briefing yesterday about what it all means um and uh and just some clarification on on some of it.

So um there'll be more information that will be shared with um local governments um through bulletins and things over the next uh couple of months um to help us work through these changes thanks leanne um counselor rogers and counselor brown please yes thanks thanks for uh providing all this information the the feedback is that it's uh it's really good to have it correlated and and um um the comments that were provided uh at uh both at the um um meeting and uh and on the survey that's great um i was um and and i think the the initiatives to to make residents informed um brought out a really good representation, both uh those that were concerned uh for before for and after, um, even having representatives from squamalt and and sanitage and and highlands uh you know, we're were drawn to the event.

Um the you know, there's interesting information that's coming along.

Um I see a bit, and I've passed that on to and it was a um a summary of um the transit and rapid transit uh uh developments that there the uh province is is planning.

Um it so with these bits and pieces, will uh staff be providing um counsel with the whole shoot and match?

Uh through the chair, yes.

Um in in january, I will be coming back with a report um to council basically um after you know we've had a chance to go through all the manuals and um and we'll bring forward a a work plan and sort of what what that's going to look like the resources that will be required um and uh that will be brought forward to council in january and so that you know so that council makes informed decisions as well it you know it seems to me that also that um the the province has been um has got the the boil plate would there be any significant differences between how a uh science would prepare as bylaw or view all or squam or virtual um there there are there are conversations happening at the staff level.

We're sort of you know helping us helping each other out um with with these changes, and um there they'll just definitely be some collaboration there.

But again, uh we were just provided with this information last Thursday.

There's a lot of information.

I have not had a chance.

I've gone through some of it.

Um I have not had a chance to go through all of it yet.

Um, and so I will be spending the next couple of weeks and the Christmas break digesting it all so that uh we can come back to you in January with the plan.

Yeah, and that's of course what concerns me when I was listening to uh the mayor of Sanit speaking, and he was talking about uh you know having to hire a lot more staff to handle uh the workload.

So that's going to be an interesting discussion point uh for every municipality.

Will we or won't we?

Take a number?

Um, you know, because it's uh it all comes down to um what the taxpayer is going to be able to prov afford in that regard, contract or otherwise.

Um so those those are certainly uh some discussion points.

And I think um the information and the and the involvement that we've had from the public is is just the tip of the iceberg.

And I I hope that um uh that we would not only have uh staff's excellent resources and and uh that from others uh staffs, the CRD and council, but um I would certainly want to see um a strong citizen involvement in the bylaws, in the the planning for this OCP and and for their understandings um uh you know what um uh what that means to the community and to their environment and to the ambience.

So of that, I'd like to make a motion.

I move that um the um the mayor would um work on establishing a task force, a citizen task force, um on this uh on the various bills that the uh housing bills that the province has has prepared so that uh we can have the benefit of um of the citizens input on on all this.

So that's my motion.

There we go.

So just for clarification, in terms of the uh I I think the mayor has a within statute has the ability to establish I don't think they're called task force, but uh if they're standing committee.

A standing committee to review this.

Okay, thanks.

And so uh for a standing committee, normally it's one counselor per citizen um that that I can appoint.

So um uh even though it's citizens, it would be counselor potentially um staff as well.

Um discussion on the motion.

You you can motivate on the motion because it's your motion.

Thank you.

Yeah, for just for further clarification, and you know, what I'm thinking of, you know, either standing committee or task force and and staff can help um define which is better, but I'm thinking of a task force as being short-term focused.

Um really needs to go on much longer uh you know beyond that, but it's uh there's gonna be a great deal of um uncertainty and um uh from many folks and and I think that it's uh just helps all this up and and brings about a a uh a greater awareness and greater input from the public.

Thank you, Councillor Rogers.

Secondary wanna motivate.

Uh just that in terms of getting the public's input in terms of the you know of the of the impact on their community and s and the impact of this legislation on them and and the way they feel about their community is is information I think we should get uh counselor colleague that here it was from a from the entire community to get this information so that we can uh be able to not only know for us what their impacts are but also we can relay that back to the province in terms of you know potential increases in taxes and all the rest of it and the impact on individuals and their families and their the affordability and viability of the communities.

Counselor Matson uh councillor Lemon um to councillor rogers.

Would this task force be or did I miss something?

Be participating in the OCP development?

Yeah, you know, I right.

I I think it's um participating in and helping to um understand um both the bylaw because it's the bylaws that we have to get done by by June 30th, if I'm not mistaken.

And then of course all that work then there's the housing study and then there's the OCP that has to be done by 2025.

So it's um um but it's the the first bylaw that has this most significant impacts um I think because that's that's going to set the stage if I'm not mistaken to for developers and and and so forth.

Staff can help me if I'm wrong.

But I think citizen um leading off on the benefits that we've had from that uh public hearing or public meeting that's just augments it.

Can I just um I I I just want to say to staff, um this is so fulsome and a lot of work and and thank you.

I think you know if everything we could have wanted to know to date is in this report.

So I really appreciate this.

Councilor Loman.

Councilor Quote, please.

Thanks.

Uh question to staff.

First staff, uh what do you anticipate this looking like from your end?

Uh certainly we know there's several people in acting positions right now, nonetheless, uh very important topic.

Uh however, I'm just wanted to get your thoughts on capacity.

And then I have another question for Councilor Rogers.

Um through the chair, thank you, Councilor Kowalowicz, for your question.

Um it's uh yes, staff, staff capacity and resources is is definitely going to be um something that I will be um addressing in this report in the new year.

Um it um it it is a concern in terms of the the amount of work that we need to do over the next couple of years, um two years um to meet these legislative requirements.

So um the report will be coming forward with some options for council to consider.

And um in that same report, um I think it would be a good opportunity to for staff.

Um I'm hearing what council's saying here, and perhaps council staff may be able to weigh in in terms of kind of that engagement piece because there are things that we're mandated to do, right?

So there are some things that we we we have to do.

However, there are but um with respect to amendments to like the OCP and things like that, that that that part of it will be, you know, there'll be there will be engagement in a public hearing associated with that.

So I think once staff sort of has um uh uh understanding in terms of sort of what is you know what's required and the staff time and resources associated with that and over the next couple of years, and um I think that will just help council sort of make those sort of some decisions which will likely involve um staff resources thanks uh counselor rogers I certainly uh impressed you're endeavoring to have our constituents involved I have to say from my observations Bill 44 and the current provincial government appear to have really no interest in uh in people's input into this they've made the decision they've made rapid change uh like it or not.

I'm just wondering, I'm I'm asking you, what do you what do you see as the outcome in particular from having a citizen I'll call it a citizens assembly or task force, whatever you want to call it.

What do you see the outcome from the citizens' involvement in the task force?

Um awareness it's it's really an awareness and understanding.

It's because it's it um um it it has really quite profound impacts on on um how people are going to get around and and um you know how what kind of lives they're gonna have and what the tax implications are.

And I I think that um residents need to be aware every step along the way, even if it's prescribed, even if it's dictated, um, we still need to be aware of um and uh I think that's what we want to do is we will heighten that awareness and and an appreciation of of you know what this is going to mean to them.

So it at the end of the day, when the bylaws passed, and they you know it and I think the the thing with the OCP what work do we have to do on the OCP it too is prescribed we could probably write that in six weeks from what uh the uh uh the uh who needs consultants from what the the province is going to dictate to this community and to the rest of the CRD.

Um so um I I think it's it's really to get a um uh and give as much power of knowledge to the residents as possible.

I trust them and I think we should hear from them.

Uh and just uh concluding remarks, uh I certainly do support this.

And I think um perhaps even staff may benefit from from this process overall because we're all learning uh and as we go um and we're certainly being transparent more transparent than than a lot of municipalities and we've certainly been talking to other counselors who have indicated it will create a lot more staff work some of them are planning on hiring employees already um we know that we'll be receiving some money from the provincial government to assist with that and uh looking forward to uh those details and looking forward to seeing how the task force goes right we'd we'd probably need to establish some terms of reference, and I put this out there if we're so when it goes to council, we would probably have a chance to mull it over some further details.

Yeah.

Thank you, Councillor Kowalewich, Councillor Um McKenzie and uh anybody else?

And then councillor Brown.

Thank you.

Um, I would just like to share my observations on the process of engagement that was in the report, uh, because it does make me skeptical skeptical about the representativeness of the task force that is being proposed.

So while I was really on board with getting the perspective of the public on the legislation through the survey and the town hall, but I was disappointed in how it was executed.

Many residents noted that there was biased tone in the surveys and communications around the town hall.

And our role, as it is at every council meeting, is to foster an environment where people feel that they can come and speak freely, no matter what their perspective, and council will then be informed by these perspectives and not impose our own stances.

Unfortunately, I feel that the bias in the communications and the mayor's presentation that opened the town hall discouraged those with opposing thoughts to really speak up.

And with the addition of only 1,200 residents receiving hand delivered invitations to the town hall, this also meant that it was not an equal treatment to all residents nor representative of our town.

And so, because of these points, I found it very difficult to accept the town hall and the survey results with any validity.

And I would like council and particularly the mayor to acknowledge that these actions may have inadvertently excluded residents from feeling that they could fully participate, and so that we do not replicate this again with the task force.

Councillor McKenzie, I I I appreciate your interest and concerns, and I hear you.

Um I was speaking to a resident who said, you know, if there's if you have anything, because the the motion was mine, the motion came to council from me.

Um that you would, you know, it helps I would be help happy to help spread the word.

So I on my home computer put together just the basics of the town hall and uh printed off a few and he said, you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna print off more and handed them to him, and that was the that was the end of council involvement or my personal involvement, and he took it out and he, you know, printed more and more, however many he printed and gave them to his neighbors, his friends, people, people in the community.

It was not a council initiative, it was not a town initiative, it was a resident initiative.

Thank you.

Um I'll go to councillor Brown and Councillor Matzen.

Okay, I thought, you know, the turnout was good in the town hall.

We certainly had a number of people with opposing views.

I thought that was very good and and kind of surprising.

And even some of the stuff like uh Mr.

Kampoff used to be the housing senior um manager at CRD.

Um some of his points about uh occupancy rates and and uh sorry, vacancy rates in Victoria.

I had a guy come around and and do some work on my blinds, and that's what he does.

He goes around and he fix puts stalls blinds in in in apartment complexes.

It was surprising to me that he confirmed what Mr.

Campoff said.

He said the number of places he goes to where there's one person living or one family living on one floor and all the rest of the units are empty.

And that's mostly in the city of Victoria.

However, wow, that's that's disturbing.

They rush, rush, rush the bill, bill, bill, and yet there is tons of vacant spots.

The province passed this omnibus of bills, they ramped through so quickly.

And we no, we can't simply ignore it.

That's not a possibility.

They have a hammer, it's not a very popular hammer, but they do have the ability to remove councils.

Uh, when I was a school trustee for many, many years, it's very frustrating.

Every year we never had enough money.

It wasn't a budget meeting, it was a slashing meeting, slash music, slash drama, slash this, slash that.

We finally came to a comp I wanted to send a proper budget in.

However, the province said, no, if you do that, we'll fire you.

They did get fired.

We did uh uh a needs budget in in parallel with the other budget to say this is what we actually need.

This is the budget we're submitting because this is the budget we have to submit.

And they they took all our powers away, took local taxation away from school trustees, they take local bargaining away from school trustees.

School trustees now they go to grade five Christmas concerts and they pass out scholarships to students and and their graduation certificates.

Other than that, the role is almost nothing.

That's why after 12 years, I decided not to run for school trustee anymore.

And the government is trying to do the same thing to municipal governments, pull stuff away.

And that's exactly what they're doing here.

I think they uh in the when it went to the House there, I think they discussed it for less than 15 minutes before they rammed those bills through.

So uh personally, John, I think it's a great idea.

However, to me, uh you're wasting people's time.

Yeah.

Let's let's if if I may, and and if if we have the initiative to um go forward, and and I hope we we will, and I and I do hope that we would have uh representatives on both sides, you know, that you know that we can they can learn from each other and they can learn, you know, educate us as well.

I mean, there's there's a lot of great um skill sets out there.

So um, and and but yet we still have to define the terms of reference, and I do want it to be complementary to both council and staff, uh, can constructive.

Um, and so I'm hoping that we could uh pass the motion, see how successful um we can make it, and uh at least give it a try.

So I don't know how anybody can look at what the government did.

I think there's a good aspect to it.

Government is taking away the authority of municipalities.

They're gutting us.

This is the most important thing we do is zoning and determining what our community looks like, and so I just feel it incomprehensible that perspective can be that we were too hard on government because we weren't hard enough on government.

And in terms of the meeting, information got passed around.

People who came there were informed with that information.

And there wasn't a lot of information, positive information about it, because nobody knew what was going on.

And so the fact that we did have information put together and passed out to community is a very positive thing.

And the turnout, which was fairly significant in terms of what's happened in the past years, again also indicates that people had an interest.

And even people I disagreed with totally, who I thought were probably more representative of government shills, uh they received very, very polite treatment from members of council as well as the audience.

So, Councilor McKenzie, I think you're way off base, and I think you're just wrong.

That was a well-thought-out meeting, and the good information was given, and the people were treated with respect and dignity, irrespective of what their opinion was.

Councillor Matson.

Motion on the floor.

I will note that I think we're the only municipality in the entire province to conduct something like this.

And uh what astounded me when you see other municipalities that are neighbors absolutely paralyzed even at their council meetings because of polarization on things.

Doesn't matter what the issue is.

Dog leashes, for once, dog parks is another one.

Um, but absolutely polarized, upset.

I I saw at that meeting people applauding each other for getting up and voicing their opinion, regardless of where their bias was at.

Um, and if there was any bias, I think in the questions I reviewed before they went out, it was not a fact about building more housing.

Absolutely not the fact.

It was um the imposition that some of the counselors had already discussed that there was no public engagement, there was no municipal consultation, there was no First Nations consultation, there was no UBCM consultation about it.

So if there was frustration or bias there, had little to do with housing and increase in housing.

It had everything to do with no consultation.

So I'm sorry if there's some out there, and I did note them and I read them, Councilor McKenzie.

But I think uh the separation of the issue is between engagement and public input, something we demonstrated and something the government did not.

Council McKenzie.

Just to address the comment there, uh I don't have it in front of me, but I recall at least one question in there saying, How does this legislation impact you?

And all the options available were negative.

That to me is bias.

How can someone say, actually, this will positively impact me?

There wasn't the opportunity for that.

So that's just one example.

I think there again in the correspondence, there are multiple examples, um, which I'm happy to share.

Thank you, Council McKenzie.

Um, so we do have a motion on the floor about um establishing committee uh to Councillor Krawl witz's um concern.

I think that um it it's all about the mandate.

I mean, uh I think this is something, Leanne, that would could be a staff multiplier, even if it's checking and correcting work, because there is a lot to interpret.

Uh I've been through the policy myself once over now and the zoning particular around bus stops um i if it partially goes through a property line does that affect that zoning for that property line so I would see this as a staff multiplier and an ability to help staff and counsel get a message out an objective message that isn't biased one way or another.

It is just a message that this is the impact of this legislation on the public.

Because there's no bias here.

There's no selling it, so it's got to be done.

Um, and and uh I think it could be a multiplier.

So with the standing committee, it'll take a counselor per citizen that I appoint.

Um do I have uh just before we get down to it, do I have counselors that would like um to be part of that committee?

And it it may meet with some frequency.

Do I have representation?

Councilor McKenzie, Councillor Mattson, Rogers, Lemmon.

So I've got uh I've got a fair amount that would allow us to uh get another replacement.

And again, I'll I'll come up with a mandate.

I will um bounce it back um to you, and I guess that would uh if there's no other comments, could bring us to a vote on it.

And yeah, I'll come back to the next council in January.

Yeah.

So we're gonna call call the question.

I'm gonna do that right now.

Uh so all those in favor of a standing committee, which we really don't have to take a vote on if we get a mandate in front of us, but uh even then we don't all those in favor of standing committee to um for implementation.

All those opposed councilor McKenzie is opposed.

Uh motion carries.

Um and I think that brings us down to a CAO.

Oh, did we also receive it already?

We receive the report.

Can't remember.

Uh can I get a motion to receive?

Uh moved by Councillor Lemon, second by Councillor Mattson.

All those in favor?

Any opposed?

Seeing none, uh, you're opposed to the report.

Council McKenzie is opposed to the report.

Ivan, you're acting for acting for acting.

And CAO update.

Yeah, what is it these days, right?

Thank you, Mary Tobias.

Um, I'll just call myself director of engineering parks.

Uh speaking on behalf of um acting CAO Jones.

So this is the CRO report for um November.

The report's in front of you.

We have about five minutes left until 5 p.m.

But I'm happy to take questions in the meantime.

One comment.

I was just delighted to see the the increasing rate at which the public is paying their bills online.

Really good.

And I don't think I was all that enthusiastic about the money we were spending for the first place, but uh given the use of the public, all I can say I I was wrong.

Council Lemon.

Probably separate from your report, but I want to say that town looks great.

It's decorated for Christmas, and kudos to staff.

And is it is it Victoria Contracting that does it or is it staff that puts up the decorations?

It's actually both.

So uh Victoria Contracting does many on the road right-of-ways, and then our parks department, which is for um spirit headed by Dave Popmarov.

He does um a lot of the parks.

So if you wrote our Helmcken and centennial park, the lights on the trees there, that's done by our staff, for example.

Brilliant.

Thank you counselor quote i too have had lots of compliments on the christmas lights and uh they're wonderful i just wanted to say that i think it's important we acknowledge uh the fact that staff is doing more with less and um we uh we notice and we thank you and we know it's uh it's a busy time of year to begin with so thank you for your continued hard work and uh we look forward to having snacks with you soon thank you counselor there's no other comments.

Can I get uh motion to receive?

Moved by counselor rogers, second by councillor Lemon.

All those in favor?

Any opposed?

Seeing none opposed.

Can I get a motion to recess, please?

Uh until 7 p.m.

So moved.

Last party.

Moved by councillor McKenzie.

Council seconded by Council Rogers.

All in favor.

Any opposed?

Seeing not opposed.

Motion.

Welcome back.

Uh call to reconvene for our committee of the whole for December 12th, 2023.

And I think we can skip um down to our first petition and delegation.

And that's Kyle Armstrong for Penis Peninsula Streams Society.

Kyle.

Great to be here again tonight.

I was last here in March, I think, proposing for Granton Aid a project, two projects, one for the mill stream restoration and monitoring, and the latter, which I'm here tonight to follow up on, the uh salt marsh restoration work at View Royal Park.

Next slide, please.

I think we can skip this.

Um I'm not sure how much time do I have this evening?

I apologize.

I think it's 15 minutes with quite okay.

Well Peninsula Streams Society, um NGO on the Peninsula and Greater Victoria for the past 20 years.

I've recently assumed um the position of executive director since last speaking.

Um, and we put forth our programs kind of pillared by three pillars uh research and advocacy, education and outreach, and stewardship and restoration.

Next slide, please.

Um next slide, please.

We've been working in partnership with View Royal um and on a number of different projects.

The Portage Inlet and Linear Park Beach Restoration Project.

Next slide, please.

Uh next slide, please.

Which basically uh worked to improve the amenity at the View Royal Linear Park Beach.

Um, sorry, next slide, Ivan, thank you.

Where um rip wrap was basically removed, nourishment was placed.

Um, and next slide, please.

We were able to engage education, next slide, please, as well as stewardship, um, doing some back shore plantings.

Um, we're bringing students from the local shoreline school down there to do education, um, and we're doing research and monitoring through eDNA and uh forage fish egg sampling.

Next slide, please.

So, again, incorporating all those different elements into our programming.

Next slide, please.

Um, doing restoration for the environment, but also improving areas for people and the residents.

Uh, I understand the speech has become quite popular with uh the local residents.

Next slide, please.

Uh the other project we had was the Hospital Creek Marsh.

Next slide, please, which is just at the head of Portage Inlet.

Uh, when we first visited the site, uh, we noticed there's a very large goose problem.

Uh residents were feeding the geese as well as ducks.

And the Esterin Marsh, a red-listed ecosystem type in the province, was rapidly eroding because of this.

Next slide, please.

A different subpopulation than the migrating Vancouver Island species.

They quickly hybridized and exploded in population.

Now we have non migrating geese who in the summertime molt, can't fly, and target estuaries and marsh.

Very quickly eating the vegetation, denuding it of vegetation, leading to erosion of these really important uh environmental uh ecological ecosystems.

So really important for uh outmigrating salmon, returning salmon species uh for foraging and uh refuge, but also for migratory birds.

Next slide, please.

Uh this is kind of what we were facing at Hospital Creek.

Um, lots of denuded vegetation and erosion.

Next slide, please.

Uh there's also uh the uh some evidence of a weir, um, which was interesting, a filled fish weir, which probably lined the historic extent of the marsh.

Next slide, please.

Uh this is just that hybridization of those two geese species.

Next slide, please.

Uh population explosion over the past uh century.

Next slide, please.

And the efficacy of exclosures.

So once you exclude geese from these areas, you can see rapid recovery of the marsh systems.

Next slide, please.

Next slide, please.

Just more evidence of this.

Next slide, please.

Very similar up from Comak, similar ecosystems, similar impacts.

So this was taken before we installed our exclosure.

Next slide please.

And immediately after one year after you can see the vegetation where there was vegetation really flourishing.

Next slide, please.

We also see passive recovery of denuded areas.

So on the left, that was kind of the before photo.

On the right, you can see salicornia beginning to come back in the areas that were originally mud.

So we're seeing seaward expansion of the estuary and marsh after exclusion of geese.

Next slide, please.

Armed with this kind of confidence, we expanded the exclosure up Hospital Creek, and we implemented a different technique known as eco-cultural fencing, which is alder and willow whips, so really natural materials that break down naturally.

And again, just working to exclude the geese.

Next slide, please.

We also, and to the latter project proposed for Grant and Aid, wanted to expand this treatment to View Rural Park, where geese were also observed to be denuding the marsh habitat.

View Royal Park is, of course, in the Craigflower Creek estuary, a really uh prolific and wonderful urban stream with more urban habitat for coho and cutthroat salmon.

And yeah, just a very important estuary and stream habitat.

So we wanted to uh focus on this area.

Next slide, please.

We had a plan to provide both exclosures, uh, so all of those PA areas are known as protected areas.

So we were planning to exclude uh geese from all of those areas where we can see active erosion of the marsh, and even observed geese, you know, eating what's left of the sedge in those areas.

Um we went to work.

Uh next slide, please.

This is kind of, you know, on the right, that panel shows upper Craigflower Marsh, very healthy sedge.

Down below, you kind of transition to an area where the sedge is much more sparse.

Next slide, please.

So with volunteers and residents of View Royal, we went to work as well as different partners like Pacific Salmon Foundation and uh the goose, gardens of our Salish estuaries from Comox, and we implemented uh some more fencing.

Next slide, please.

Unfortunately, what we're seeing is the active restoration, so planting into these areas with the sedge, we haven't had much success.

We believe because the drainage has been infilled because of the erosion, we're not getting success.

Where there are areas of drainage, we have seen the sedge come back.

But in other areas, it doesn't seem to be taking uh quite as uh readily as we had hoped.

Next slide, please.

Um but we did get a lot done.

So we pretty much uh did all of the exposure areas that we had planned to.

Um so that passive restoration that we've seen at Hospital Creek is already starting to occur.

Um, but we're working to figure out different treatments, such as soil amendment.

Um, so building an artificial marsh bench using uh soil to create better drainage in the sediments and planting into that to see if that will help with the uh the marsh restoration acceleration.

We also proposed in that first two tidal marsh restoration or creation areas.

So that's that Title Marsh one and two that were kind of further down the road.

I'm here tonight because we are actively pursuing funding to do those projects now.

And in partnership with the Pacific Salmon Foundation, we're applying for funding through the coastal or the climate resilient coastal communities fund, federal funding.

They'll fund up to 70 percent of of the project.

And we would bring in about 250,000 to 300,000 to do this work uh as well as engagement with the town centering the town as um a center for these climate resilience nature based solutions next slide please uh next slide might be doubled up apologies lots of slides thrown together really quickly um so yeah that first area right there title marsh one next slide please what that would look like is basically we oh previous slide yeah we would take those rose bushes.

This is through rural park along the path there um we would take those rose bushes, salvage them, pull them back towards the path, and take the uh the elevation of the soil down a bit um to allow inundation of the estuan waters and use some of those spoils to build that marsh bench to the elevation that we want and amend the mudflats that are there and plant into that.

The salvaged nooker rose would then be replanted somewhere close to the path to maintain that natural barrier protection.

Next slide, please.

The second area, um, and I apologize for the rudimentary drawing of this.

Um, the funding would pave for about $80,000 worth of modeling and um and design drawings for for the project.

But this the second proposed area is further up the creek, um, where I believe there's already a wetland restoration area proposed.

Um, and essentially would reconnect uh would would build the wetland but connect it to the stream.

Through some channels.

Next slide, please.

What this would do would not only allow for more marsh restoration area and create more marsh area for blue carbon, flood retention, and habitat, but it also potentially takes stress off that bend there.

So where you get the erosion on the far bank, it would divert some of the stream through that area.

So in high flow events, diverting a lot of the volume of the water through that area, limiting the erosion on that far bank, potentially preserving those trees.

So in the park management plan, I think the idea is to allow nature to kind of naturally take its course, eroding the banks as sea level rises or these flood events become more regular.

We would propose to kind of facilitate that process a little bit more, thereby actively mitigating some of these erosional risks along the different banks, as well as improving habitat for fish and salmon.

What we're after, next slide, please.

Next slide, please.

This can be just a general letter of support.

However, if the town is able to put in a level of contribution in kind, you know, if there's work towards similar nature-based solutions within the park area, that could certainly be kind of considered in kind.

Any kind of staff engagement around this project in terms of, you know, we're developing a tool towards nature-based solution priority making and effectiveness monitoring.

So any engagement with planning and engineering on that could certainly be considered in kind.

So it's very closely aligned, but not a specific feature of the park management plan.

Um so help amending that, or potentially we work with staff to identify other activities, projects or areas with this funding.

So it's quite loose.

This is just our proposal of what we would like to see the funding as a a priority area.

However what we're looking for right now is pretty much agreement in principle potential to make our application stronger leverage for more funding from the government of Canada with some in-kind contributions from the town outlined.

Putting this together has been pretty taxing.

The application is due tomorrow.

So I apologize for the late hour.

Um, however, you know, if it's just a letter and support for the application, great.

If there's some way that we can quickly pivot and put together some kind of in-kind, all the better.

Um, and yeah, we'll continue to provide adaptive maintenance to the work that we've been doing and continue to leverage the town's funds to provide more resources for these types of projects into the future.

Thank you.

Thank you, Kyle, and thanks for the presentation.

Um was a great presentation, and I realize what funding deadlines are uh all about.

So um I admire also your bravery by uh uh by perhaps situating the estimate and coming to us tonight.

So uh could sweat uh uh we got some time to entertain some questions from council.

Uh counselor Mattson first, please.

Yeah, I'm just wondering if you'd be happy with uh endorsement for the the project and advising that the uh potential for a contribution would be included in our uh budget discussions.

Yes, yeah, that would work, I think.

Um it it it might limit how much we can ask for originally, which may affect the the total scope of the project in the end, but I would at this point in time be very happy with that, yes.

Thank you, Councilor Matson, Councilor Rogers, please.

Yes, thank thank you, call just a quick couple of questions for staff.

Uh could you go back and show a map of um uh the two title marshes?

And there's the aerial photograph we're going to so a quick question staff while we're getting there um uh you identified that um uh we could write a letter of support uh for those projects that are in line with the view well master plan and when we get to that picture maybe you can explain which which parts are in line and what parts uh would need some amendment there we are yeah thank you chair so um just to uh counselor rogers' question.

The items that align, or i would say i i'm not gonna say out of scope, but uh not included in the in the master plan are the things that could be supported.

So um planting areas one, two, three, four, and five are uh areas that are supportable for two reasons.

One, either uh it aligns directly in a sense that the uh Vero Park Master Plan states that those areas um are proposed to uh we're supposed to improve the riparian area by writing plantings.

Um typically they would be like um uh channel riparian areas and not marsh, but uh you know, given the closeness and the fact that Peninsula Streams has worked with us for for many years and have done great work for us, uh, that that would certainly align.

Um, there are areas like planting area four and three, those are actually outside of uh Vero Royal Park, so it's not part of the uh park's master plan.

That said, if Peninsula Streams is working with our um stream bodies and our stakeholders and and um if uh it is considered a good idea, then staff would recommend council to to certainly look into that.