Committee of the Whole

Okay, thank you very much.

Good afternoon, everyone.

And I'll I'll call the meeting to order and acknowledge our friends and neighbors, the Songhees and Esquimalt Nations on whose territory View Royal is.

This meeting today is being held under the auspices of Ministerial Order M192 due to the COVID pandemic.

This afternoon and this evening, we'll hear from the public during the public participation portion of the agenda.

And the instructions on how to dial into that is on your screen.

It's 778-402-9227.

And then you enter conference ID 488-230-821-pound.

And at the appropriate time in the agenda, I will ask you to I will announce the last four digits of your phone number, ask you to mute the live webcast to avoid feedback, ask you to not use speakerphone to ensure sound quality, and that you unmute yourself by pressing star six, and you will then have the opportunity to give us the benefit of your views.

If you're providing comments through the chat feature, that feature is open during the public participation period and the question period portion of the agenda, and we would again ask that you provide your name and address.

And with that, I just need a motion to approve the agenda, please.

Second.

All in favor, okay.

Okay.

Everybody's good with that.

Opposed, that's carried.

Public participation is going to come up very fast, so if there's anything on the afternoon portion that you're hoping to speak to, this would be the time to call in.

Next we have the minutes from January the 12th for adoption.

Move adoption.

Thank you.

Second.

Any comments, corrections?

No.

All in favor, opposed, that's carried.

There's no petitions and delegations, so we are now at public participation.

And staff, is there any public on the line?

Good afternoon, your worship.

No, currently we do not have any callers.

Okay, thank you very much.

And I'm presuming there's no one on the chat feature.

That's correct.

We do not have any comments this afternoon, Mary's reach.

Okay, thank you very much.

And with that, we will move on, and I will hand the chair to Councillor Lemon for Protective Services.

Thank you, Your Worship.

Um, I have no report.

However, the Chief does.

Um Chief Hurst, did you want to speak to your report?

Good afternoon.

Um just before you is the public safety report for November, December 2020.

Is this on?

Can you hear me?

Yeah.

We can hear you.

I'm not sure if it's on.

Just a note, um, you'll notice in the in the bylaw category a bit of an uptick from last year.

Um the 2021 files are already picking up.

And I and I I directly relate that to some of the COVID stuff with people being at home and uh people being more aware of what's going on in the community.

Um I guess the the highlight of the year, obviously, for fire was the uh pandemic and how that shifted operations pretty significantly for staff and volunteers.

Of course, we're still under a public health order.

The staffing model we're running under right now is the volunteers are uh staying overnight in the building with career staff on a 24-hour basis, so we're not calling in the volunteers from home.

So there's a maximum of four people in the building at any given time.

That seems to be working well because we're getting good cooperation from uh Colwood and Langford Fire.

We're also doing the the same program.

So each department is backing up each department.

We're not having to call people in unless it's a significant um emergency.

Um what else we got going here?

Um obviously, statistically, call volumes uh were down significantly uh from 20 uh 2019 and that's mainly attributed to the cancellation of the medical aid program early on in the pandemic last year where we went from doing about 40 calls a month to zero when they shut that down for about four or five months uh if we were back if we were at our um annual call numbers for medicals we'd be on par with our average years of calls for service anywhere from 850 to 900 calls a year.

Other than that uh there's really nothing of note in the um in any particular category um we did see a bit of an uptick in building fires near the tail end of 2020.

And of course our our opiate overdose issue is still prevalent in View Royal as are unfortunately suicides.

We realized several over the Christmas holiday and then into the new year that's continued.

So you know obviously that's that's troubling and difficult for the families.

And what we're seeing is and these are in in young adults and young children as young as 12 years old.

So it it's it's disturbing, but I I think um you know it could be it could be related to COVID, it could be related to mental health issues.

But that combined with the opiate issues that's that's been a bit of a test um but the uh staff and volunteers are coping well with that um the only other thing of note with our our building inspector as you know uh mr fake is went to the city of Colwood took a position there and we have contracted back to him to provide that service and that's working very well for us um we've got good fight feedback from uh contractors and from some of the builders that that's working fine so we haven't had any uh any issues with that arrangement so I'm open to any questions.

Thank you.

Questions?

Customer Manson?

Yeah, I'm just wondering, so what's what's keeping you up at night?

What's keeping me up at night?

Yeah, God.

That's a good question.

I mean, obviously we're we're actually starting to see the effects of COVID now with staff and and volunteers.

It's been a year now, and everybody seemed to be coping pretty good for the first 10 months, 12 months.

But I think as um the uncertainty of the pandemic, um the the vague messaging that's coming from the province and federally, and the uncertainty of when we're gonna open up and get back to some sort of normal.

I think I think people people are starting to get a bit exhausted from it and trying to find uh an avenue.

Uh staff and the volunteers, I mean, have been really, really diligent in their their approach to COVID and how they, you know, run their lives outside of the organization.

I mean, every member that that has to take essential intercommunity travel, you know, they they send an email and they submit a COVID travel plan and and they've been really good that way just to protect the integrity of the organization.

I mean, I'm hopeful by the spring we we start to see a light at the end of the tunnel and um people can get out and socialize a bit more.

I mean the fire departments are inherently, you know, unlike our police departments where they're individualists and they they hang out by themselves.

Fire departments tend to work more as a team and they have more of a social, more of a social aspect.

So it's difficult for firefighters when they can't get together and and socialize like they normally do.

I mean, that's no reflection on my learned colleague to the left, but uh just an observation.

So hopefully we'll be getting back to some sort of normalcy where the volunteers can get together as a group and the association can get together.

And they've done well, they've done well over the past 12 months.

I'm pretty proud of everyone's work.

That's I mean, that's the one thing.

I just want to see some travel and see people being allowed to move about and and enjoy themselves.

Um the only other thing of note, the uh my wounded warrior run has been officially postponed uh to April 11th.

Um April 11th to the 18th, just because of the public health order on intercommunity travel and mingling and and you know, there's there would be 10 of us in a motorhome and hotel room.

It was a tough decision to make, but obviously, you know, we have to respect the public health order and and set an example.

So they they made the decision.

So that's been rescheduled for April 11th.

And I'm hopefully and confident that that'll move forward on the 11th, from the 11th to the 18th for that week.

Thank you.

Looking forward to that.

Thank you.

Anything?

A question from Councillor Quadlic.

I just uh actually I was gonna ask you about the wounded warrior run, so thank you.

Uh and continue to train and fundraise, please.

That's going well on both aspects.

Uh I actually wanted to ask just kind of uh an administrative question on the building inspector who's being contracted by Colwood.

I'm just wondering what does that look like when uh is he working in both uh municipalities in any given day, or is he assigned to us um on a contract basis in piecemeal?

So it's it's it's all piecework.

So he's full-time in Colwood.

Um he's made arrangements.

Gary had a good working relationship with contractors.

So his inspections um are during his lunch hour, uh, some are on the weekends, and some are after 4 30.

And it's actually working out quite well with some of the residents because if they book an inspection for five o'clock at night or 5 30 at night, they're home from work, so they're not having to leave work.

But it's not through Colwood, though.

We're contracting to Gary directly.

Sorry, yeah.

Yes, that's correct.

That's right.

He wants his own uh company, so we're contracting directly with him.

Yeah, and the workload is such that he's able to manage um both quite easily.

So he's busy in Colwood, but um this is filling in quite nicely for him.

So he hasn't he hasn't been burdened by View Royal yet.

And um this is not any kind of an oversight question, it's more of an interest question.

But like when he's responding on his lunch hour, uh what's he what's he driving there?

Is he driving a Colwood vehicle?

No, no, he he drives his own so Gary is completely independent.

He has his own private vehicle, his own iPad, his own computer.

Everything is in is independent of uh the city of Colwood.

Okay, and the city of Colwood is aware that he is he's helping us out right now.

Okay with this work.

And do what are we what are we thinking long term for that position?

And if this works well, obviously, I mean something I would support and leave in your hands with Kim but what's the long term visioning for that I mean obviously dependent on on future development in in View Royal right now the workload for Gary is such that he can handle you know the development level that's happening in View Royal.

Of course if there was a big uptick uh in the future we would have to to look at that I mean ultimately the the the perfect scenario is to replace that position um but given the the workload right now it it's actually working out quite well for us both operationally and financially.

Good.

Good.

Thank you.

Thanks, Chief okay uh counselor rochers, you had a question?

Yeah, thank you.

I'm gonna switch it a little bit um with with the the COVID um you know and the calls that you folks uh you know have to go to uh do you have any specialized equipment that uh protects you uh from the pandemic the virus yeah the so as you know when this first kicked off about a year ago there was a there was a significant shortage in 95 masks, gowns hand sanitizer so over the past 10 months we we started to find avenues to stockpile that kind of equipment we figured out in the summer we what we purchased was four, they're called Draeger hoods and they're uh they're a hood that goes over um the head and it has a uh a positive pressure ventilator hose that comes up the back and it pressurizes that that self-contained unit to actually protect the guys.

So we're not burning through uh equipment disposing of and throwing out they're all reusable.

So we carry four of those um four on the on the main truck.

We're seeing we're obviously seeing COVID in the community.

There's it's community spread, and when a medical aid call comes in, there is notation whether the person has those symptoms or whether they have COVID or symptoms related.

But every call that we're going to, staff are wearing the the hoods and the gowns as a protective measure.

So we're not burning through PPE because we're reusing uh the equipment that we purchased early on, probably in the summer there.

It's working well.

Another question, um uh in the emergency program, you mentioned the um CRD and and the public alert notification system.

Yes.

Um you won't know until March.

How how is all that looking?

So we still have a we still have a public alert system.

Um the CRD chose to go a different direction with the con the contractor and the CRD have gone in a different direction.

There are three submitted the CRD put in a request for proposals for a new provider, and those proposals are with the CRD, and Troy has actually been selected to review those uh RFPs with the CRD.

And then there'll be a transition, they'll decide in February and there'll be a transition in March to a new provider.

So it'll be seamless.

But what it will take is people who have signed up for our current program, they'll get an email and then they'll just have to re-register with the new program.

But it'll be a very similar platform.

Okay, yeah, good.

And there was a report on uh evacuation grant funding.

So you've got the 25,000.

So where is the this is this report um just basically to update our our evacuation plans for the town?

For the yeah, for the town and for the CRD.

If you remember the the signage that was on the highways, the evacuation route, okay.

That was all part and parcel of it.

So it was a it was a a regional grant application where all municipalities participated in the program, and that that report has has been completed and um it it's far more effective than the the old program that they had in place yeah and I guess the last comment is you know the pandemic burnout that uh everyone's um you know struggling with um and I I can appreciate you know the the the fact the fact that uh the volunteers are front line on those stresses just as um as the police are with you know suicides and and um domestic uh issues yeah yeah no I appreciate that um follow up.

Just to follow up on the building inspector.

Yeah.

Would on Thetis Lake, for example, like the the the condos or the townhouses be looked at by View royal, or is that all by their own uh the those are those are part three complex buildings, so they're being they're being reviewed.

So Gary would simply review the field notes and the reports that came from the architects.

Okay so he won't be on site for most of those buildings.

Um he did some foundation inspections, but the the actual inspections of the building that'll be field reviewed, and then we'll just review the uh the files as they come in.

Okay, so their architecture sign off on it and view roll is not liable at all.

That's correct.

Okay, thank you.

Do you have any questions?

How's the new truck?

Is it performing up to expectations?

Yes.

Oh, oh yeah, no warranty issues.

Um, there haven't been any issues with it.

Obviously, um, if any of you would like to come up and see, we can make arrangements to have you come onto the bay and see it.

Um the um and then obviously once we get the restrictions lifted, we'll do something a little more formal with the community.

We don't know if the community open house is gonna fly this this summer because it usually does, as with the the annual banquet and a couple other annual events.

We just don't know if we're gonna be in a position to do that.

Um, but it's working out well, um, which reminds me our uh uh totem pole is looking outstanding.

Uh we've made arrangements to have the uh the concrete base constructed.

Uh structural engineer with the supports is all in place, and Mr.

LaFortune continues to carve and cut, and things are looking good.

If you get a chance to go down to the tent on Admirals, it's it's looking pretty spectacular.

But we we do want to make sure with that, which I told him when you and I were there.

It's looking really good.

Thank you.

I don't know if you've been there since, but was I mean we'd rather actually have it later rather than sooner?

So that hopefully we can do some sort of a small community event here.

Yeah, hopefully.

Yeah, if I mean if I had a crystal ball, I would hope that April May is going to look a lot better this year than right now.

Like last year's May June looked pretty good.

We're starting to relax it a bit.

We'll see.

Yeah, it'd be nice to have a a more of a community unveiling than something private.

Yeah.

And just on you on the suicide calls that you mentioned, do you do we have all the necessary resources in place for the force in terms of mental health counselors and things should they need them we do um the the town's the town's been good at funding that we have um we deal with uh the clinic here on the corner at Helmcken uh T.

Malcolm and Associates they have a new a new name but they have a a group of clinicians and of course the members have the uh ability to see any counselor that they want so we manage it initially and make sure that they that they see the and get the help they need and of course the town the town funds that and that's been it's been very successful um in making sure that everyone gets what they need thank you so um last question yeah or my question are are we are we hanging on to our volunteers any through the pandemic have we got any any falling at the wayside so we've got um and not not anything to do with the pandemic okay um we've got five vacancies right now in the volunteer uh group the the challenge as with the even with the career departments we're having we can't we can't hold a competition to bring people into the building to assess them so we're sitting we're sitting right now at I believe I want to say 30 or 31 members.

And that's uh we're we're stable right now, but we can't hold a competition until they they left this public health order.

But we're we're doing okay right now.

Right.

Yeah.

Okay.

Thank you, Chief.

So that's it.

Second.

Second.

All in favor.

I can't wait to hear what my colleague has to say.

I see.

Your friendless colleague is the one you're talking about.

Thank you.

Thank you, Chief Fun.

Really?

You're worried about what a fireman is doing at night.

Really?

They're either watching backdraft or they got a bladder problem.

That's the only thing keeping them up at night.

All right.

Donuts.

Yeah.

Thanks for uh Mr.

Mayor, Council.

Thank you.

Welcome, Inspector.

Thank you.

Um I'll just go through a quick uh quick overview from January, just a few highlights uh of some of the calls, just to kind of give it perspective of uh what we've been going through.

January 9th, obviously, we we did have the suicide on the trestle there with a 16-year-old.

Um, as my friend here um uh Paul had said, uh the amount of suicides in mental health calls are well, we're up 36% this year, um, which is to put it in perspective uh 1296 uh mental health related calls this year along the West Shore.

Up uh sorry, 1759 up from 1296.

Uh so it's a 36 percent uh increase in in mental health calls.

Not surprising.

I you know what is surprising per se is the fact that this isn't all drug induced, this is COVID induces people that you wouldn't normally associate with these types of symptoms.

And you don't hear about it because it's not one of those things you advertise.

And it's it's brutal.

But we're going to suicide, suicide attempts uh all too often.

In fact, we're going one right now, uh, or we're looking for an individual right now who's made it fairly clear that this individual uh didn't want to uh didn't want to be on this earth anymore, and we're just uh trying to locate a body at this point uh currently.

Um the youth uh you know this isn't just isolated to here.

My brother uh he's in charge of Campbell River detachment.

He was just he had a 12 year old over Christmas, he just had a 14 year old as well uh hang themselves in the last week or two.

Um it's it's rampant, it's everywhere.

Um, and it's no doubt COVID, uh a change in everybody's routines, uh, socialization, um, the you know the limited resources that are available.

And to that end, that's one of the reasons that uh you know I've been working, um, and I know Kim Kim knows about this, it's one of the things we'd like to do is bring in a counselor to work with the RCMP.

Um, it's certainly not a new concept, but other uh other police agencies do that.

We've made um a pitch to the province.

We're gonna continue.

That is a funding that should come from the province, um, although there is perhaps some appetite from a municipal level.

Um, but the idea would be that our community police officer would partner up with a counselor two to three times uh a week.

That they this counselor would be specific to working with the RCMP because all too often we're we're at those calls.

We're in the schools, we're we're going to these things after hours where we identify and recognize the youth, and there's just nowhere to there's nowhere to put these youth.

There's nowhere to mentor these youth.

And so it's more like a mentorship program where we can kind of work with these kids that are at the fork of the road.

And if they're really over here in terms of mental health and state of mind, um we can try to get them into the resources that they need before it becomes tragic.

And for the other ones that are just uh they're at that fork on the road and they can go this way and make a positive uh make positive life choices, or then go this way.

So um hopefully uh by next week I'll have something drafted to forward to the province.

I'll be asking for a support letter from from this uh council here.

Um, like I said, the idea is I know there's some private sponsorship that uh is already approached me saying we we want to give money towards now.

They can't give it straight to the RCMP, but they can give it to you know your town or they can give it to Langford to funnel into our community policing so we can host things like um attract the kids with barbecues and uh take them out and um try to find some farms that would allow these kids to you know to care and nurture uh some farm animals and give them something to look forward to uh instead of going to all to go off in some homes that um you and I would would cringe at if we uh if we were sick on you know, forced to force them out as a young young person.

So that's uh that's one of the initiatives that we're doing um with the young people, especially right now.

I think is really important with everything that's going on with COVID and mental health.

Um January 8th, so I'll just switch uh go switch uh gears here a little bit.

January 8th, our crime reduction unit tracked down on arrest of a 31-year-old suspect on outstanding warrants, including possession of a concealed weapon, theft, driving while prohibited.

Upon arresting the suspect, he was searched and we located 60 grams of uh drugs, suspected heroin and fentanyl, cocaine, meth methamphetamine, um, drug trafficking, $2,000 cash, shotgun ammunition, and the individual was wearing body armor at the time of arrest.

Um, he was on outstanding warrants, breaching his conditions.

So, you know, obviously you have concern when people are starting dealing with drugs and they're wearing uh body armor.

That's that's uh that's a clue.

That's a that's an issue when you start seeing that in your community.

Um hateful graffiti, uh something which is obviously distasteful and uh just so out of out of place and not no place in society.

But you know, we had two separate incidents of uh hate-killed white supremacy uh graffiti, January 21st and uh the 22nd.

Um it looks like it was on rural roads uh park um on the 3200 block of Machosen, and there was spray painting swastikas and and racial slurs against the the black community.

So unfortunately, we we it's uh seems to have stopped and we haven't located any suspects on on that.

Um we received uh this is a concerning, it's an ongoing in uh issue.

We have identified the individual.

Obviously, there's some mental health issues.

This individual likes to spook women on the galloping goose, and so uh we received a complaint that this woman was walking on the galloping goose near Jacqueline and Langford.

Um the woman advised police that she was walking on the portion of the trail just before Victor Chan Memorial when a man approached her and just started to stare at her for minutes.

Just it was almost like an intimidation thing.

And she, you know, obviously panicked and ran down the trail and came across another woman who had said that this same individual had came out of the bush and did something similar.

We've identified this through uh video footage.

We we um were able to locate some video footage here recently in the last few days.

And we we know who the individual is and similar.

It's not uh, this isn't the first time that they've done this, they haven't committed any criminal and overcriminal acts other than just trying to uh intimidate, which is intimidation is a criminal act, but uh the the burden of proof on that's gonna be a little unless we can combine all these together.

But we are a hundred percent gonna be speaking to this individual, letting them know that we know, and we'll be we'll be keeping a close eye on this individual, and hopefully we can get in the some mental health because clearly he uh he needs some mental health.

Um we had a uh January 1st we were called to a residence.

Uh this one was in Langford, actually, a report of a suspect pointing a loaded handgun at another resident inside a home.

We called our emergency response team, our crisis negotiators, and we were able to call the individual out uh at 3 a.m.

He was arrested uh at his home.

We executed our award.

14 firearms were seized.

Again, body armor was also seized uh at that time, and we've seized his firearms license, and he won't be getting his his firearms back anytime soon.

Um 2026, we uh crime reduction unit arrest a 20 year old female and a 25-year-old male and two separate break and enters at two apartment uh buildings.

The suspect broke in and stole Amazon packages from the mail room at the time of the arrest.

The male was found to be intercession of drugs, fentanyl, breaching quarter court conditions.

Um, and so that individual has been sent to court.

Um we had a hit and run on January 5th.

Fortunately, uh a woman was hit in a crosswalk in uh Wish Art.

This was in Colwood, and uh the the individual didn't stop after he hit a woman at a crosswalk.

So um, you know, those are disturbing stories again.

Um we did we ran every video we could find.

We had a partial plate, we ran that through ICBC partial plates.

Um we weren't able to come up, we only came up with one vehicle, and we confirmed that that vehicle was not uh associated.

So we've run dry on leads on this one.

Um on January 9th, uh West Shore RCMP, the drug section organized crime, did a search warrant on a residential property in 300 block of HATA Drive in Colwood, uncovered uh all sorts of evidence of drug trafficking.

The uh the investigation sorry, um the investigation began on January 3rd when police uh investigated a report of a break and enter on a boat docked at uh Petter Bay in Machosen.

Personal items, including fish finders worth approximately $1,000 were stolen.

Search warrant on the home executed uh numerous um items, including that uh that fish finder and other personal belongings.

So um it was also drugs, fentanyl, methamphetamine, um, and drug uh drug paraclonia.

Um so this individual was obviously charged with all the associated offenses.

In View Royal, we had uh January 28th, we had a hit and run that took place on the 200 block of Island Highway.

Um we responded and learned that a minivan had crashed into a parked car on the front steps of a home near this location before backing away and taking off.

And uh the front steps of the home and the vehicle parked for the driver at the time were damaged in the incident.

The homeowner advised that the van uh backed out and just drove away down the island highway.

And again, we had a partial plate on that one.

And uh to this to date, we haven't been able to locate that vehicle or to know the damage uh um, which is surprising with all the amount of video that people have at their their residences now that uh we couldn't couldn't locate more video on it, but uh to date, unfortunately not.

Um and like I said, as of uh you know the I released the um annual report, and the most significant thing I see here is the 36% increase uh in mental health calls.

I think we were down 800 calls, um, which in the grand scheme of things with COVID and everybody being cooped up in their houses, uh there was certainly I think an increase uh perhaps in domestics and uh other things initially, and I think that kind of dampered down throughout the uh the pandemic so far.

But our calls have been down 800.

That's not surprising.

People aren't going to work, we're not getting near as many traffic complaints, um, rest you know, complaints uh associated with businesses, et cetera.

But certainly when the pandemic uh subsides, uh, if it ever subsides, uh I'm sure most people are feeling the same way as me, a little frustrated.

Um we you know, we certainly expect that call volume to dramatically increase.

Um, in terms of a total poll, actually, we're uh we're looking at a total poll ourselves, partnering up with um Aboriginal Policing.

Um, we'd like to do a project as well.

And there's some funding through the federal government and the RCP uh Aboriginal Policing.

So hopefully uh I've asked about it as they uh said that it's certainly something that they would uh look into.

I'd like to have some representation at the detachment uh as well.

Um so I'll keep you posted that in uh spring.

Okay, thank you.

Questions?

Questions?

Yeah, I uh thank you very much.

I was uh speaking to Lillian uh Spock uh counselor Langford, and I understand that um you know a number of folks are coming together to uh try and find solutions um for the um popularity, if you like, of the Niagara Craigflower, a certain Niagara Gold Stream uh bridge there.

Um I I don't know if they're working with the Isla Corta Foundation, but um possibly signage or or even a railing, um much like you'd see on Burard or or the Golden Gate.

So um you know that that would be interesting to see how that um how do you do anything more?

Yeah, just you know, again, it's one of those things that it's such a a difficult thing to uh to completely uh remove, but we can try to, you know pr potentially mitigate by having some environmental design at the front of the bridge.

I don't think you're gonna ever get a a railing across the bridge.

Uh you know, uh they are looking at putting some fencing at the front uh on both sides of the the bridge.

Um again, there'll be mixed mixed opinions on that because it wants to stop somebody from using wire cutters and and cutting the gate, uh cutting the fencing.

It's not like it's the golden gate where people, you know, they have security looking at this thing day in, day out, climbing the um the fence.

But it does it does pr you know present a barrier.

So it may help.

Um it may mitigate um some attempts.

Yeah.

Um, but I don't think there's any silver bullet uh in in that area personally.

Yeah, no indeed.

Last another question.

Anything more developing as far as your concerns with gangs and organized crime and so forth?

Yeah, we're actually putting together a uniform gang, a three-person uniform gang uh task force.

We are concerned.

COVID, I think, has you know even held up the gang activity, uh overt gang activity, anyways.

And you know, when we see them in in bars and restaurants, uh, we were starting to see quite a bit of that before uh COVID hit, people wearing colors in the area here with the expansion of all construction and uh you know uh with the growing municipalities, with that, like I've told you before, is gonna come organized crime.

They want a piece of the pie as well.

It's always been here, but I think when you look at places like Kelowna and the lower mainland and Red Deers and those places, you start to see more overt um gang activity and um drug activity.

And so uh to that end, anyways, we are putting together a three-person, we are looking to partner with um Santach and Victoria, um, what that looks like at uh you know the gang members, they don't they don't stop at McKenzie, they uh they do the whole area as well.

So we'll certainly be trying to work in partnership with uh municipal partners here as well, trying to just keep a close eye and be an overt presence.

Um we have our our crime reduction, we have our drug section, we have CFSCU, which deals with your mid-level, kind of high higher level drug trafficking.

We have federal drug enforcement, which deals with you know international um drug trafficking and anything to deal with homeland security.

This is kind of a frontline uh more face-to-face type of approach, uh, which is complements those other avenues.

Thanks.

Council Mance.

Yeah, no.

So I heard on the news that the uh Sunday municipalities are are pushing the problems to put together, like for the lack of a better term, many river views for 40 to 50 people.

Uh people who have drug problems, mental health problems.

I don't know if the RCMP has been involved in any of those discussions.

I mean likely not at a high.

I mean, I think it's it's obviously more of a um a health authority.

We would obviously have some um some part of that in in terms of uh how many files we're dealing with and what we're dealing with and some of the the consistencies.

I mean I I'm certainly uh looking at it from a wesher perspective, I would love to see that because um, you know, and I think actually Mayor Helps said it um quite correctly that you know I don't think people are looking for the old institution where you you throw somebody in an institution and uh and and forget about them type thing because they've got a mental health or an addictions problem, but more of a phased-in, more of a modernized uh mental health facilities that can zero in on um each individual needs and kind of a phased-in approach uh and work with those people and pool their resources in um in different venues and and i think they were talking about four around the province or six around the province to start with as a pilot project is what i was uh is what i was hearing and for me uh it would be a welcome approach because i could tell you how many people we take to the hospital that uh they just they get released from the hospital and then we just take them back to the hospital uh because there is no long-term plan and so that would certainly be welcome from from my perspective thank you okay is that it you good no um I've uh I have a couple of questions um the 36 percent hike in suicides.

Is there a is there a a gender split?

It's 36 percent in mental health related calls.

Oh, okay.

So no, I'm not gonna do it.

I don't have the suicide I could get there for it.

The increase in suicides, is there a gender split?

I I don't know.

I haven't uh I haven't looked into that.

Okay.

What I have noted is off the cuff, I would say I don't think there's one gender over the other.

Yeah.

Yesterday we went to one where it was a female and she, you know, I've cut her wrists very deeply.

And it was actually, I believe, in New Royal.

It was a couple of days ago.

I've been hearing male, female, male, female, so I haven't heard more gender.

Good.

Um domestics, you said are on the decline.

Uh I haven't uh I I what I've noticed is at the beginning of the uh pandemic, we're getting called to a lot.

Um I don't know if people are just getting used to living with each other uh or or what have you.

Uh or that, one or the other.

Or just giving up.

But uh I have noticed just when you know, because I review the files every pass-ons every day, and uh for a while there um I thought we needed a regular Dr.

Phil in the area here for uh some uh family counseling.

But here um it seems to me recently it's been uh certainly decreased, but I've noticed a significant increase in the mental health calls.

Um and I I haven't looked it up, but I'd actually venture to say that um the longer we go in the pandemic here, I think we're just gonna continue to see more and more and more people are really uh at their last thread.

And you know, you talk about business owners that are, you know, the financial stress.

Like I couldn't imagine the financial stress that you're dealing with as a as a business owner and jobs and uh you know your socialization, and just there's just every facet of society has been affected.

So that's sad.

I would imagine there are a lot of regular middle class people who are just a paycheck away from from losing it all.

Yeah.

They are.

And yeah.

Yeah.

Um I have a question about fentanyl.

And you you said, you know you it's you seize firearms, etc., etc., etc.

etc.

in fentanyl.

I recall a few years ago hearing and understanding fentanyl was just suddenly on this on the scene, and it was and it was it was devastating and and I understood that you know like a teaspoon could wipe out you know the population of a city or whatever is it the same caliber of strength and deadliness or has or has fentanyl changed in its in its addictive it's it the the hazard yeah it's it's just an extremely addictive and it it's cheap to produce and you literally need granules.

Okay.

And so and you don't know it's just like any really any illicit drug where you don't know the the strength.

So um every time you take it, it's you're rolling the dice.

And it's no different than it's you know, some people are used to heroin it and all of a sudden they get pure heroin.

And that's that's the nail on the coffin.

But fentanyl is just such an addictive uh an addictive drug, and they lace it with other drugs, and you don't know what it's so it's it's kind of I don't think I've answered your question, but um it it it can devastate, it is devastating.

Um and I think that it's a large reason why the numbers of of uh deaths are through the roof.

Yeah, I think that's why you're starting to see some of the uh some of the courts are are certainly um sentencing uh appropriately um higher than certainly higher than other drugs.

We as the police obviously would like to see it uh much higher, but uh at least it's an increase.

There they are recognizing the devastation that it is having in the communities.

Yeah, okay.

Thank you.

Thank you.

We're good, motion to receive the report.

Thank you.

Second.

Thanks, Tom.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Thank you, gentlemen.

Don't no violence once you get them outside.

Well, like you know, we went to that accident, so the walker is still awake.

Uh uh, we don't go for that.

Bye guys.

Um, take it outside.

So that's it for you.

That's it for me.

I'm stepping down.

So we're going into finance and admin, and the first report is the election procedures bylaw in regards to signs.

Sarah, you're everywhere.

Sarah, we're he we've got you in person and on the screen.

But frightening, isn't it?

Okay, well that didn't work very well.

All right.

Now, Don, I'm I will have to get someone to share my screen for me here.

Hang on.

Wait.

There we go.

Let's see if that worked.

No, that did not work.

I will just get people who know how to do this to do this for me.

There we go.

That is fabulous.

So this report is coming for you before you today to look at some options primarily.

Next slide.

I don't think I have any control over this at this point.

So I'm sorry?

That wasn't in view, right?

No, and that actually is uh from Nova Scotia.

Uh so are you are you still muted, Sarah?

Uh I no, I shouldn't be muted.

I think so.

I'm just now I'm looking at the screen, which shows your mute, yeah, mute signal.

That's why I was curious.

Uh no, my mic is on, and that's the feed that that is on, so that should be good.

Yeah, they can hear me fine, they're telling me, so that's good.

Uh yes, it's my computer that's muted, but the microphone is on.

So that that is good.

So the background to this report is that changes were made in 2018 in advance of the election, and and this before you, the slide before you tells you uh what those were.

So we amended the automated vote counting uh system authorization and procedure bylaw, and that was to bring it into compliance with what we were doing and our practices.

And we also adopted a new bylaw, election procedures bylaw 989, and it set in in place these five um things or these five steps.

So uh it brought about mail ballot voting, which is great.

It changed the date for the second advanced voting opportunity.

It meant we did the ballot names by lot.

So draw happened then for the names rather than alphabetical by last name.

And it uh formalized the candidate information to be on our website, which it had been prior to that, but it wasn't formalized.

This formalized it, and it increased the qualified nominators from two to ten people on candidates' forms.

Next slide.

As well after the election, we thought, okay, it's a good opportunity to look at what happened and what would we like to change and improve upon going forward.

So in June 2019, we uh we, you, uh, looked at what had been done and decided that perhaps it was a good time to then look at election signage requirements and limitations on the town's logo.

Next slide, please.

With respect to election signs, um right now they're exempt in our sign bylaw from permit requirements.

We set out in the nomination package when they go out the uh election sign timelines, which is 30 days before the election, the signs can go up, and 48 hours after the last voting takes place, we ask that they come down.

Citing, don't put them where they're an obstacle to people walking or driving, um, that type of thing.

And we inform people that they would be invoiced for damages, things like creating huge divots, or if they put in something so large it punctures some of the underground sprinkler systems or watering systems or any kind of utilities that they would be built for that.

We also send the same information out to provincial, federal, and school board candidates because they're not picking up our nomination package, but we do let them know once we know who's running, we send them an email to the candidate's office to let them know what our rules are, and as well contact information should they have any questions.

Next slide.

Other corporate officers, things that we've been reading in in the newspapers, and as well complaints or issues that come up from time to time.

Not that there's a large number of complaints that come up, but there are from time to time during campaigns, whether it be municipal or otherwise, these issues, where people cite them with in relation to our municipal properties, parks, trails, and open spaces, affixing to utility poles, because that actually is a contravention of work safe regulations because it creates a hazard, even the staples for workers climbing the poles or getting onto the poles.

Structure, and also complaints about even if it's on the boulevard in front of their property and not on a person's private property, not being supportive of that candidate or their party.

Why is it their sign is in front of my property?

And oh my goodness, what will I do about this?

So they do tend to be concerned about that.

So those are some of the concerns that do come out next.

So some of the options that we explore in this report, and one that Kim and I discuss later, and that I have listed as well in the in the PowerPoint, but not in the report.

We'll we'll cross to off the list today and talk about a little bit today.

The report before you is intended to, with respect to the signs, be a point of discussion.

I'm interested in hearing feedback as to what you may want to include or not include in any type of bylaw amendment.

So this is just for ideas and feedback today with respect to the signs.

Right now they're not permitted on town facilities, so not at town hall.

One option prohibit on all municipal property.

Can you put a sign or not at the public safety building?

Don't put them on parks, trails, and open spaces.

But they are permitted on municipal boulevards.

This option would prohibit them on all municipal boulevards.

So that would just add those to the list of areas where they're prohibited.

They could still be allowed on private property, but that's up to council whether they would like that.

Who uses this?

I looked for other examples in the province, and there's quite a few municipalities where they've already gone through and regularly look at this work.

And Burnaby and New Westminster are examples where I could see that they do this.

What are some of the benefits of this option?

Reduced use of plastics, and that's a response to the climate change emergency, increased safety for pets, cyclists, drivers, and as well fewer distractions.

So the two go hand in hand, reduced visual pollution, protection of the workers, getting back to where people put them, maybe in relation to polls, and eliminating the risk to infrastructure.

Next slide.

Option two, prohibit on municipal boulevards simply in locations list.

We're just clarifying that if you're adjacent to parks, trails, open spaces, and municipal facilities like town hall, public safety building, so being really clear about something that isn't expressly listed anywhere at this point.

So putting that in bylaw and also within 100 meters of the polling stations for the duration of the campaign period rather than just on voting day only.

So right now people can put up their signs on a municipal boulevard within 100 meters, except you have to go out the day of the voting, whether it's advanced voting or the day of the final voting and pull the signs.

And so the candidates, volunteers, or the candidate themselves would have to go out and do that.

But as well, we send out poll station workers to go and walk 100 meters the periphery, the perimeter in that zone and pull signs just to make sure that they're polled, just we're meeting the legislative requirements.

This option, too, just says, you know what, don't even put them up in that zone to begin with and also just saying explicitly also don't put them on the boulevards adjacent to parks, trails and the municipal facilities.

Next option.

Option three, establish election zone sign zones.

And places that already do this would be Coquitlam, North Fan, Port Coquitlam, Port Moody.

And so there to better guide candidates around safe locations where, for example, there could be pedestrian issues or conflicts, school zone issues, traffic issues, the municipality could set out specific zones, a handful of zones in the municipality, perhaps at a really good high profile locations where we would set out as a and say these would be between this street and this street along this road, a great place for you to put signs for your campaign.

And in the report, it talks about one sign per candidate per zone because you don't know how many people are going to be running in any one campaign or one election.

And so it creates basically a level playing field where everybody who runs can put in one sign in that zone.

What are some of the benefits?

Again, reduced use of plastics because there's not as many signs just going up everywhere.

Again, safety, fewer distractions, visual pollution is addressed, protects workers, and again looks at the risk to infrastructure as reduced if we're citing those areas where we know that there's not going to be a conflict with the underground utilities.

Next slide.

Option four allow on the boulevards with the adjacent property owner or occupiers' consent.

This option would require, and this gets around that issue of someone being concerned about having someone sign in front of their property with that maybe perhaps a party that they don't necessarily agree with, whereby the candidate would need to have that property owner's approval even on public property to put their sign on that boulevard, including the strata corporation.

It could be, though, a little bit more complicated where there is more than one owner, for example, the strata, or a home with a secondary suite.

We could, as a municipality, limit to one sign per frontage, so that there's not a you know two owners or you know, uh multiple signs in one boulevard.

It would just be one per frontage.

And the municipality could also look to set aside, set a size limit as well.

Oak Bay does require this consent feature in their municipality.

What are the benefits?

Uh, you may see a fewer number of signs posted, um, and therefore fewer negative impacts associated with that.

Um, fewer plastics, fewer safety distractions and concerns around visual pollution, safety and impact to the infrastructure.

Next slide.

Option five just focuses on limiting sign size, including height on municipal boulevards.

Here I looked at what places such as Coquitlam have.

They have signs that are two sided, so it stipulates in their bylaw.

Each side not to exceed in its a two foot by two foot, so 0.61 by 0.61, I think in feet.

So I listed feet first.

And height, no more than 3.6 or 1.1 meters.

I've also seen 0.91 meters, so it's a little bit lower, but I was trying to think of like the real estate sign and that goes in.

So it's about 1.1 meters is that.

What are some of the benefits?

Increased safety again, fewer distractions, visual pollution, reduces the risk to infrastructure, doesn't eliminate it completely, but it reduces it and avoids sign boards and levels of fields.

So you're not getting bigger and bigger signs and putting bigger and bigger ones in front of the next fellows or person's sign.

Next slide.

Option six.

This one is a little bit different as an option than the other aspects we've been talking about.

This focuses just strictly on safety.

Some of the language in the bylaw that could be added to emphasize safety that isn't there right now for election signs.

Talks about illumination, animation, and I'm thinking of that blow-up red robin when you drive by and it keeps blowing in the wind, it looks like the character from Gumby and Pokey that's blowing around all the time and catching your eye.

This would be a prohibition against having those types of things attached to election signs.

Take away rotating or flashing or moving lights, electrical features, don't hang any kites or balloons on them, electronic message center wouldn't be permitted, inflatable devices.

Nothing that interferes with traffic sight lines at intersections or with safety of cyclists or PEDs.

Now, in terms of the traffic sight lines at intersections or with safety of cyclists and PEDs, this is something we discuss in the nominating package, but again, it's not explicit or expressed in the bylaw right now.

I've discussed with both the Director of Public Safety and on the second to last bullet, the Director of Engineering distances from the edge of fire hydrants from fire hydrants and the edge roadway or the face of curb.

Other municipalities have different measurements in discussions with those two individuals.

They both felt that these numbers were suitable.

So I've listed those to have specific distances, signs could be placed from those municipal features.

Um, another prohibition could be not placing signs on vehicles or trailers attached to vehicles.

I really meant it.

Um I see, I've typed it twice.

And uh next slide, please.

Is option six continued?

Um, no signs causing obstruction of sight lines.

Uh there are signs that do cause obstruction or sight line hazards would be removed immediately.

And we do already tell candidates this that we would remove them, or if it's less of a hazard, we we indicate right now we would ask them to be removed.

But if it is an immediate concern, we would tell we tell them right now we would remove them ourselves directly.

Several municipalities in the lower mainland already do have this type of language in their bylaws.

What are the benefits?

It clarifies some of the existing things we do already, increases safety, fewer distractions, reduces visual pollution, and protects workers.

And in this case municipal workers as opposed to poll workers.

Option seven, next slide.

Provisions for siting on private property.

And this gets into setting a size a limit of number and size.

Here it's proposed that one per property and talks about the same size as mentioned earlier in the report which is two by two with a height limit of 1.1.

What are some of the benefits again, safety and visual pollution in residential neighborhoods?

Next slide.

This is the option that Kim and I discussed late last week, and that is would we ever consider as a municipality prohibiting the use of any plastics and signs in response to climate change and limiting pollutions and pollution and the use of plastics in manufacturing display of election signs.

It may result in fewer signs overall because of the cost to produce with other materials.

And some of the benefits then, which is simply be environmental, perhaps with fewer signs you would see reduced visual pollution and fewer distractions.

Next slide.

So the summary of options is before you, and we can come back to this slide.

I will continue on in the presentation.

I just wanted to summarize them all in one spot.

Next slide.

Some of the additional information, the options are very broad, and as I said at the beginning, this is meant more to generate discussion and ideas.

We don't need to come to any conclusions today.

I just wanted to hear from elected officials as to your thoughts and ideas.

They touch on many aspects from complete prohibition to limitations on size, location, and number.

You can look at a combination of these options.

There's so many permutations and combinations, and they can certainly be accommodated unless they're diametrically opposed.

Safety is of really the utmost importance to this.

Should council choose to amend the bylaw, changes I think ideally would apply to all elections provincial, federal, locally, and including the school board, it would make it much easier to administer the bylaw.

And candidate information for View Royals elections would continue to be made available on our website regardless of what options are chosen.

It would be important to always have that information available for the public to learn more about the candidates who are running.

Next slide the next issue is much simpler to deal with and uh while we do convey information to candidates about use or not use of the logo um the june 2019 motion asks for reinforcing that information that we do put out and so the language you see in italics um is listed as information that could be added to that bylaw um to to make that uh reinforcement possible so other than as authorized in writing no person shall embed or place the elect on their election sign or other advertising materials uh the local trademark or official mark of the town in whole or in part um so that type of information or language next to it.

Is it is our logo actually owned by us?

Do we have a license on that?

Yeah, we have it is we have an official mark, yes.

Does that mean the pictures we had in front of the fire truck we wouldn't be able to use?

Do we?

Yeah.

We do.

Well, that's a yeah.

I mean, I I know we had an incident of a candidate who took a photo with one of the the lamp standards on Helmican in the background, right?

And that created an issue, which personally I think is kind of going a little bit over the top.

Um blurred out, but I I I'm interested in the Town's logo because I mean, certainly I have been told in the past that we pirated that logo ourselves.

Um so I mean, in fact, I think old Mrs.

Helmicken might have told me that.

Well it's ours now.

Yeah.

But anyhow, sorry, carry on.

There you go.

Next slide.

So the next steps.

Um I'm seeking committee feedback today, um or for the next several days.

Um on options, a combination of options, which can be the basis of an amendment bylaw, and then it could come forward for council to council for bylaws um consideration of readings.

Any amendments to the bylaw uh would need to be done at least fifty-six days before before the um first day of the nomination period.

So there is still time because that isn't until October 2022.

So that is good, but I wanted to get this out to you today.

So we we have a bit of time.

And our last slide, please.

And the recommendation before you is that the committee provide some input on the sign options and with respect to the logo, that the following logo wording be included in the election procedures bylaw.

Okay, thank you, sir.

You got comments now?

So we're gonna go to comments.

I mean, the one just before we I'll go I'll come to you, Ron.

I mean, I do want to point out that I don't know how many times over the years I've heard residents say, God, it's a good thing you guys are putting up the signs.

I wouldn't have known there was an election otherwise so there there are other ways though and it's true right I mean a lot of people don't have a clue there's an election coming until they see signs go up so there's different ways I think that the issue needs to be approached and and I'm not saying there shouldn't be restrictions but I I think we need to be reasonable.

Councillor Matson yes signs are hideous in the olden days when there were very few of them were our streets look so much nicer I just think during election time it's the dog's breakfast and it always causes feuding, etc.

So I like option one.

Not on public property.

And the option six, I don't want to see people dragging signs around on cars or on on trailers, et cetera, or having the big flashy, flashy signs.

Option seven.

Put them on private property, and if you have you have to go bang on someone's door and ask for permission, then you stick it on someone's door, and at least there's been some sort of interaction and they've done done their due diligence.

Yeah, I like no plastics too.

I mean, I'd have to get rid of all my plastic signs, but I like that concept.

So those are my thoughts in terms of all of this.

Are you running again?

So you're saying to ban them on all municipal property.

Yes.

Option one.

Okay.

I just don't so option one.

I'll speak.

Yeah, no, I'll come to you.

So and option six.

What were you saying about driving them around on trailers?

Option six is well, that's it.

You can have big flashy neon signs.

Or you could be driving around on a trailer or or you'd have big signs on your cars and that that would outlaw them.

I I don't know that we even have the authority to do that.

If someone wants to pull a trailer through the town with their sign on them, I don't think we have the authority to to ban that.

Right.

I'd be very surprised.

But at any rate, we could we could certainly research that.

Staff suggested it, so that was yeah and I you know if somebody wants to put on private property, fine.

Then they've had to ask the people.

I'm trying to help so you're covering a whole lot.

And no plastics, you know.

I I think let's stick let's stick initially to the issue of of signs on and presuming that we're you I also want to caution the the optics of a sitting council passing draconium regulations that could make it you know presuming that we're all running again and I know that's not likely but I mean it's almost like saying, hey buddy, you're not putting up a sign anywhere.

So I think we need to be a little bit aware of that.

Councillor Lemmon I my comfort level was with option two is is um uh prohibit prohibit on municipal board the the election day.

Okay.

So keeping them a hundred meters away from any municipal property.

Yeah.

Okay, so we have one for option one at the moment, and one for option two.

So let's stick to these initial ones before we go into the more peripheral ones of whether they should be made of plastic.

Okay, so councillor Rogers.

Uh keep it as it is.

Um I I That's not an option.

Just leave it as.

Just no, do nothing, you know, do the logo, that's it.

You know, as as the mayor's already said, um, you know, for new candidates, and um not being able to have number one in or even even the limitation of the of the signs is um it's only 30 days, really.

And um, so I don't think it has any great impact.

And um, I guess what my question was aside from Oak Bay, uh, that was mentioned here once or twice, what are the municipalities?

What are they doing?

You know, it seems like the residents of um you know live with the necessary evil, and and what we're we're proposing is going to be um for the province and the feds as well.

Um geez, I'm gonna have to leave you low to find out who to vote for for a province.

Um so it's um you know, in in terms of election signs, plastics, pollution.

Well, again, um, you know, I I look forward to having a uh plastic bag ban.

I think that would have a much greater uh uh impact uh of um on pollution and and uh the environment.

Okay, so let's stick to the actual sign placing before we get into the issues of private property and and whether or not we should be dictating the what what signs can be made out of it.

Basically.

So so far we have one one for option one, which is ban all signs.

We have one for option two, we have one for an option that doesn't exist.

But I fully agree you're within your rights to say that it can just the status quo can remain.

Yep.

Yeah.

Because I mean we do when we look at all this and factor it in, we do have to think about is it really that big an issue now?

Are we getting that much negative feedback other than from Counselor Matson about the signs that go up now during elections?

I mean, I agree that at the end of some elections the town looks like a garbage can.

Um but anyway, Councillor Kowalowicz, your thoughts.

Uh just uh like to communicate with uh Director Jones first.

What spurred this review uh well after the election we wanted to look at did the changes we we did do for 2018 make sense, and what other changes did we want to consider moving forward?

And when that report came forward in June 2019, these two items, the election signs and the logo came came from that, is what council had asked for.

Okay.

Have we had any feedback whatsoever from residents in regards to signage lately?

And by lately, I guess I mean the last election.

And we had a by election quite close to last one, too.

So was there any negative, positive, indifferent?

Sometimes there is the comment of it looks a little garbagey.

But that's that's mostly the comment.

And sometimes there's a bit of vandalism.

But then you hear from the candidates, you don't necessarily hear from the public.

Okay.

Uh and I'll move on systematically here with my thought process.

I guess I I'm comfortable making decisions on federal and provincial signage, but I do find it a little odd passing our own bylaws on our own signs.

Uh, in particular, we're all incumbents.

Should we return to office or attempt to?

Name recognition for his worship's Screech, Counselors Matson and Rogers are immensely huge in this town.

You know, me included.

We have a significant advantage with signage.

I don't even really know if I feel comfortable making decisions on my own signage.

But my I will share one thing with you.

And I had an idea about signage that I thought about during the election because, and believe me, I'm I'm I've got probably I probably the biggest sign in the municipality.

But one idea I always had was would it wouldn't it be neat if there was a cap on signage for candidates, and I specifically municipal because that's something we can really control.

I think that would be hard.

I mean, I guess you could control federally or provincially in your township if you wanted to, but if you said, okay, everybody gets a hundred signs, everybody gets 50 signs.

I mean, I I don't know if this is uh I just think that there's so many options you've presented, and clearly you you you folks have done a lot of you know put a lot of work and thought into this.

Um there's a lot going on here for uh decisions, and uh I mean I'm with Ron, the fewer the better.

Um, you know, we're moving towards a plastic free world.

This council's already had discussions about banning plastic bags, and I think you know what we have local grocery stores doing that already here.

And meanwhile, you know, I'm guilty of it too.

I've been buying several hundred plastic signs and pop them up run the municipality for 30 days, and they sit somewhere for four years.

So there's a little bit of um you know, uh kind of plot comb kettle black a bit uh from us if we're putting up these plastic signs.

On the other hand, uh, to Mayor Screech's point, there are individuals, uh, residents who aren't uh news watchers, and I legitimately agree with him.

There are people who go, and I've had the people say this to me, oh my god, I have no idea.

There's a there's a municipal election on.

Well, I just saw your sign.

Wow, let's talk about that.

And I'm thinking, okay, um, if my sign was the catalyst for you to know there was an election, maybe they are serving a bit of a purpose, right?

So sorry, go ahead.

And who am I to judge?

Well uh, sir.

Thank you, your worship.

And I think that gets to your point about the option three of the election sign zone, creating um, you know, five to eight zones in the in the municipality that are fairly high profile that people will do drive by so that they are aware they do know there's an election and that they're you know, a set number of signs from each candidate can be in each spot, and they are a set size, so that may address that issue.

And I'll just follow up with saying, I mean, obviously, somebody's got to make the decision on on these signs, and clearly precedent has been set that other municipalities in the province have been making decisions on signage, as we've seen from today, all the examples that you've shown us, right?

Their councils are clearly the ones passing these bylaws.

Uh am I right?

Yeah.

So at the end of the day, sure, we'll we'll have to make decisions, but um I I don't know.

I I'm just gonna put it out there.

It it is kind of uncomfortable to be honest with you, making decisions on you know, clearly I'm someone who's probably gonna be putting their name forward again, and I'll have an influence over future candidates that are running against me.

So there's there's a you know, that's a bit of a slippery slope.

I have one more point.

Well, I was gonna go, but I'll let you go.

So when we first started, people just put out flyers, and there were very few signs at all when we first started to run.

And it was inexpensive to run an election, a campaign.

And you know, as time progressed, I mean I can afford to spend three or four thousand bucks if I wanted on signs.

There are lots of people who can't, and so that's another thing where fewer signs is better.

Because somebody can just, you know, like you you put 50 to 100 signs all the way up and down boulevards.

So it's the person who can afford the most signs get the most recognition versus um any sort of platform.

And that's one of my other concerns just about over signage.

And so maybe option three, if we want to show people that there is an election, limit the number.

I just think fewer is better.

I just love it when we always go seem to go back to the good old days, right?

And I guess I guess if we go back far enough, there wouldn't have even been flyers.

Well, I I know what you're saying.

I know what you're saying.

You had to go bang on everyone's door, right?

That's what you had to do.

Now you don't have to bang on any doors, you'd be just outsigned people.

So I I guess for me, I I personally am most comfortable with.

I mean, I fully agree that they would they shouldn't be in places like our medians out here, right?

I mean, that drove me crazy in the election.

And a squimalth doesn't allow that.

I know Esquimalt just they go along and they pull them out of those mediums as as fast as the candidates can put them in there.

So I don't think that's unreasonable.

I did notice a lot of counselor Mattson signs in the medians in the last election.

But I think number three is a reasonable, you know, when you say you so you take three.

Like every candidate wants to have a candidate for signs at the entrances to the municipalities.

So you you know you take the stretch of from the Canadian tire to the four mile bridge or something, and you say that's a zone where candidates can have signs.

And you do that at the other major entrances to the the town, possibly.

I mean, I'm just throwing it out there, but I think that would be a far better approach, especially when you think this is going to cover our our counterparts in the provincial government and the federal government elections as well.

Um, that there are zones.

I don't think we should be telling private property owners if a private property owner wants to, for the sake of 30 days, put 12 election signs on their property.

I think that's their right, and I think it's a really dangerous slope for us to be saying that you trying to regulate what they can do within reason.

Um, but but I would be open to number three.

In terms of plastic, is fiberglass better?

You know, do we want people to make plywood signs?

I mean, they're gonna be pretty ugly.

So I don't think we want to go there.

Technically, it's recyclable.

It's Coroplast.

You know, as long as we can still buy our milk in two-liter plastic jugs.

I have a hard time telling people that they can't make signs out of, you know, where do we draw the line?

Do realtors have to stop using.

So Kim smiling, like, yes, that would be a good idea.

John?

Yeah, thanks.

Um Damien raised a good point.

And uh, you know, so which one was that?

Um, you know, the number.

So maybe um number five, limit the sign size, the height, and the number.

And that way it's a level playing field.

Yeah, you could put an overall cap.

I mean, you'd have to but you know, if you it would have to be reasonable, but sure.

Yeah.

So you know, as far as that, you know, then new candidates are uh just have as much uh recognition and and uh um present presence.

So there we go zero, one, two, three, and five.

Right.

So the thing with the the 24 by 24 sign is that I mean they they suck, right, in terms of visibility.

Yeah.

So candidates are gonna want to be able to have, but you could I think have put say a maximum sign of 48 by 48.