Committee of the Whole

Okay, thank you very much.

Good afternoon, everybody.

And I'd like to start the meeting by acknowledging our friends and neighbors, the Songhees and Esquimalt Nations.

And we are going to.

Sorry, I'm out of practice.

I missed a whole week meeting.

So for the public who's pay listening online and wishing to call in, there's two different areas today.

One is public participation for this afternoon, and then there's also public participation for this evening.

And that covers any agenda items that we have on the agenda today that you would like to speak to.

So the number is 778-402-9227.

And when prompted, enter conference ID 875-743-173 pound.

At the appropriate time in the agenda, I will then announce the last four digits of your phone number, ask you to mute the live webcast to avoid feedback, ask you to not use speakerphone to ensure sound quality, and ask that you unmute yourself by pressing star six.

You'll then be able to give us the benefit of your views.

By participating in this webcast, you are consenting to being recorded, and the recording will be available on the town's website for future access.

Public participation for this afternoon's items will come right after our petition and delegation.

So when you see that winding down, that would be a good time to call in.

And then for this evening's, it'll be after we reconvene at 7 o'clock, of course.

And so with that, if I could get a motion to approve the agenda, please.

Opposed, that's carried.

So moved.

Thank you.

All in favor.

We have minutes from November 9th.

Move adoption.

Thank you.

Moved by Councillor Rogers, seconded by Councillor Matson.

Any comments, corrections?

No.

All in favor.

Opposed, that's carried.

So under petitions and delegations, we have Jay Melvin from Pheasant Lane.

Welcome.

Thank you.

I'm just gonna pull down my mask.

Yeah, absolutely.

That's just fine.

Yeah.

Um, and I think I submitted a presentation here that's coming up.

Uh so I live, I'll just crack right into this.

I'm a little bit inexperienced with a petition and delegation having never done one, but here goes.

Um, so I live in Pheasant Meadows Housing Cooperative, and I'm here before you today because we are going to be submitting um a letter that we'd like council approval for, and it's for uh seed application to CMHC.

So, just really quick um going through the presentation next.

Um just an introduction to who we are, what we're wanting to do, what seed funding is, and then I'll just open it up for QA.

Next.

Uh so we're a cooperative, and before you are the seven principles of cooperative housing.

There are four different co-ops here in Fez are uh in View Royal.

We are one of the four, and literally just a stone's throw away right by View Royal Elementary.

And these are our kind of governing principles of cooperative living.

Next.

Um we were built in 1985.

We are mortgage-free.

We have 40 units, and what do we do?

We offer genuine real affordability in this current market.

Our two bedrooms are ranging from 870 a month to our four bedrooms at 1185.

And so we have 16 two-bedrooms, 23 bedrooms, and four four bedrooms.

And what we're looking to do, or well, I guess first of all, how we do it is we were originally created under CMHC in 1985.

And there was a whole program when CMHC used to actually be involved in social housing.

However, now that we're done, we're looking at looking after our asset and then potentially densifying on the property because now we're mortgage free.

Next.

Different processes.

We've applied for the one already.

There's grant funding programs through the federal government.

One of them is preservation funding, and it really looks at the asset and looking at how do we safeguard it, continue to improve it and update it.

And then the next one is an application for seed funding where the federal government will give us monies up to half a million dollars, some of which is an interest free loan that rolls into redevelopment if we do it.

But it hinges on support in principle from council.

Does council support affordable housing in View Royal?

The federal government needs to see that there is a level of support and multiple levels.

Then it shows them that we're not operating in a vacuum, that council likes the idea.

So we actually have a company that we're working with.

They work with non for profits.

But in talking to Lindsay Chase, she suggested it might be better if I actually came here than have an external party just submit a letter and say, hey, do you agree to sign this?

So that's why I'm here today to kind of walk you through what you will be getting in the near future.

So once we have that, then we can apply for this.

And it will allow us to do things like look at options, look at rezoning, look at a needs and demand analysis, look at the financial feasibility of doing something like this, maybe look at the riparian setback from the waterway, look at the floodplains, do geotechnical studies to see what can actually be built there, and any other aspects of development before we come forward with a potential rezoning or any other applications that we might have wanting to build.

Next.

To do the exploratory work.

There are two different funds preserving and building new, but we really want to look at potentially a full-scale redevelopment on our property and what we could do there.

Next.

And that's it.

Okay.

Thank you.

So, in a nutshell, what you're looking for is a letter of support for you to begin investigations into what could be possible.

Yes.

And I'm just putting it out like that so that we don't get into a detailed discussion of what you might be thinking of.

That that's it.

CMHC, because of federal KPIs, they want to know how many units and what are we?

So we have in numbers, but they're not necessarily because it's completely exploratory.

We're RM1 at a point six FSR, probably in the future.

We might want to look at like RM2 with a 1.2, but again, we have no idea until we start doing some of the research and investigating what is even feasible on that property.

So okay.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Councilor Lemmon.

Well, I won't get bogged down in the weeds.

Um, but so thank you for that.

Go ahead.

Just so you're looking at when you you you use the word redevelopment.

Yes.

So it's possible you could just redevelop what is there, or but ideally what you would like to do, if I'm you know, just tell me if I'm on the right track here.

What you would like to do is add to what is all the stock that is already there.

In a dream world, I would like to redevelop the entire property because co-ops were built for families.

Yeah.

We never considered people aging.

And the reality is we have members now that are older and they have nowhere to go.

They're in a three-bedroom place.

And so we'd like to look at it and potentially look at putting in bachelors, one, two, threes, and fours so that you could literally live there your entire life, cycling all the way up to a four-bedroom back down again while maintaining your independence because there's really nothing.

The concept of cooperative living came from a world when you could put a down payment of 5,000 and get a house in Victoria.

It's virtually an impossibility.

Of course it is.

Okay.

I think it's great.

Counselor Matson.

Yeah, just for clarification, by the town giving sort of a you know approval and principle for the concept.

That's since all we have is the overall concept, you are aware that the council of the day may never approve any anything, right?

Yes.

Completely.

I just wanted to emphasize that.

Well, yeah, and so we're aware that you may not approve anything, but we also have our own members, and we just we don't know what we can or can't do.

So we want to start an explorer exploration really.

And CMHC just has all these hooks prior to anything getting done.

Okay.

I'm so so glad that my my attempt to frame the conversation at the level up here has worked well with two members of council so far.

Counselor Rogers.

No question.

You talk of we um uh pardon my entrance but is there's a cooperative um um you're you folks are you a strata council and um when you say we uh has the collective group of whoever's administrating uh the current administrators of the property, uh, are you all collectively in support of moving ahead with uh the MHC in the application?

So way to bring us into the weeds.

Thank you.

Yeah, we.

Um, it's it's a very different structure and design as opposed to strata council.

Every member owns equity in the strata.

As a cooperative, we have 40 members, 40 families, and each family owns a 140th share of the co-op, but the co-op owns the equity and owns the asset.

So the board, there's an elected board.

We the board are in favor of exploring what we can do.

And then when and if we find we can do something, then we would bring it to our community as a whole and get their vote and approval to move forward because we'd want to encumber it with potentially uh, you know, whether it's ensuring it's affordable forever, or we'd want we'd be looking to remortgage.

There's a whole bunch of things that would need to get approved in the general membership.

So there's many steps that would be in place first.

But as elected board of directors, there's seven of us, and we have the fiduciary obligations of looking into what's possible as well as maintaining the current asset as it is.

Yeah, I'm I'm happy to move um you know, approval in principle.

Yeah, I think the motion is almost there in the details of the presentation, right?

That that council support in principle for the co-op to ex um to explore securing CMHC seed funding to investigate the opportunity to do the redevelopment on their land.

And I think that gives everybody a degree of comfort that all it is is exploring the possibility.

Yeah.

I'm assuming he's he's got a letter that he already drafted.

Yeah, and we'll we'll once this conversation is done tomorrow, you'll probably receive something to mayor and council.

Um that is a little more detailed with kind of because CMHC wants to see what sort of things we're thinking.

But to be truthful, we don't really know.

We're just guessing.

And we just we'd love to build a thousand units, but we know that is completely unsustainable and unrealistic.

Um, so we definitely want to add more affordable units though to our community.

There's that park behind you, you.

You could just use that.

So staff, are you comfortable with with the motion that we just okay?

So I'm receiving nods of heads.

That's carried.

So that's moved by councillor Rogers, seconded by Councillor Mattson.

Okay.

So all in favor?

Opposed.

Sorry, Councillor Kowalewich.

Are you you're all good with that?

Yeah, I support it.

And uh thank you, sir, for all the information and your detailed presentation.

Clearly, a lot of thought and time went into it.

Great, thank you.

Good.

Thank you for coming.

Sure.

And um, I'm sure we'll see you in the future.

Bye-bye now.

So next up we have public participation.

Um, staff, do we have any callers on the line?

Your worship, currently there are no callers on the line.

Okay, thank you.

I think we'll move on because I don't think we're likely to have callers for this afternoon's material.

So I think we will carry on and go to um Councillor Lemon for protective services.

Thank you very much.

Um, I have no report nor business arising.

Superintendent Preston.

Lovely to see you.

Thank you for joining us.

Thank you very much, Mr.

Mayor Council.

I apologize for being a little late here today.

As always, thanks for thanks for having me.

Um before I forget, uh, to let you know that uh the new inspector has uh arrived on the ground.

His name is Inspector Stephen Rose.

He uh came from Parksville Detachment.

Um incredibly intelligent, uh well-educated individual who'll make a great addition, and I look forward to introducing him to uh to council here at uh some point in the near future.

Um I'd like to address something uh fairly serious here um off the onset before I go into the presentation here, and that's um that we received um a uh a number of letters that have been provided to me uh by counselor Lemmon, and uh they're very disparaging, uh filled with hate and uh potentially harassing um uh harassing comments that we will be investigating.

I feel sorry for any public figure that has to go through um what she's going through.

I can assure you that we'll be looking into uh this um with a wide lens and um just to uh to let you know that we're taking it seriously we're looking at all avenues um you know sometimes people leave uh fingerprints and DNA and whatever else on letters and uh we'll certainly be looking into uh into this uh to the fullest so I just want you to uh have that assurance and just to let counsel know that um you know there is no place and no tolerance for uh for this in public life.

It's one thing to be respectful um and it's no different uh in my occupation as well.

Um you know, we don't always agree, and it's fine to have uh you know conversations where we disagree, but when people start sending uh hateful and harassing letters, uh, it's inappropriate, unacceptable, and we will be looking into it uh uh in future here.

Thank you.

Okay.

Um as far as the stats uh for View Royal.

Um at this point this year, we're 16% increase uh from last year.

Um not a huge surprise given uh I think COVID, you know, it's it's uh has skewed all the numbers.

There is no doubt that our calls for service have gone up.

Um, you know, prime example is yesterday.

Uh, probably set the record for the um the volume of calls that came in uh during our day shift, and that was 64 files in a 12 hour period.

So for us in the West Shore, that's that's a lot.

That's about twice twice as many calls as a normal day shift.

Um night shifts are typically slower.

Day shifts, like I said, are in that uh anywhere between 25 and and 40 some files, but to get when we're starting to hit the 60s, that's a lot.

So we normally have around anywhere between seven and ten members working um during peak policing during that time.

So it's it's a hopefully um it's not a trend that we're gonna continue to see.

Uh violent crime uh in in your world is up 15%, so 17 files uh compared to the same time last year.

Uh again, uh when I look at the numbers uh to put it in perspective, in 2018, we had 199 violent crime uh calls for service 2019, we had 114, 2018, 129, and this year we're at 129 already.

So we're it's kind of like a the bell's going back up a little bit here from where we were, and I think that just speaks to the increased call for volume as well.

Property crime, again, that's up uh 19% uh 2020.

So we had 346 calls for service related to property crime in 2020, and uh to date we're already at 363, so definitely up.

But as I've told you in the past, that can be skewed by one or two individuals that the the courts have released, and uh all of a sudden we get to deal with it.

And we've seen that recently here, where there's a number of individuals that uh unfortunately have been released, and um we are dealing with those individuals uh quite quickly, unfortunately.

Um the hospital, we had uh I think it was four cars up there yesterday morning, uh one on one point.

Um there was uh like there's uh a fight, there was a couple of mental health, uh there was an incident out in the parking lot.

Um the hospital on average we're there, like I said, twenty, I'm guessing twenty-two times uh a month.

So every almost every every other day for sure, uh, we're up there dealing with something.

Uh the casino, um, you know, to uh put it in perspective, January was closed.

That's typically somebody loitering around or an alarm or something like that.

So we just had the two calls.

And same with February 5, March 1, April 1, May, May 1.

And then I believe it was June when it started back up uh again.

And we had five, July 13, August 15, September 12, and then the last two months, seven uh each month respectively.

So um we do get calls for service there, intoxicated individuals, fights, uh, you know, refusal to leave, theft from vehicles, that sort of stuff.

But uh mental health.

Um, uh sure it comes as no surprise that we're up 19% uh mental health calls.

Um I know we've all pondered our fists for complex care facilities and more funding and more treatment, and um we just can't see it quick enough, unfortunately.

Uh some of the the uh more serious calls that we've had.

Um Langford, we responded uh November 1st to the Canadian Tire, where a male brandished a machete at the uh staff after he was confronted allegedly shoplifting.

The suspect male fled, uh the receiving door jumped a fence.

He uh fled the store with a nail, uh a nail pulling tool.

Uh that nobody was physically injured during that incident.

We identified that individual and we later arrested that same individual.

Well known to us.

Um November 4th, uh we had a report of a male who appeared under the influence of drugs in a parking lot about an apartment complex in Goldstream.

A member of our uniform, our new uniform gang task force, uh attended there, located the man who rec who we quickly recognized as uh again a person of interest to us uh and was aware that an individual had an outstanding warrant for his arrest.

During the course of arrest, the uh officer observed and located a black handgun uh in his waistband.

And um I think the member actually tackled him.

He used to play football, the member for Laval uh back in Quebec there.

So it's good to he's a he's a big fellow.

It was good to have him on our side.

Uh but yeah, I mean it's pretty scary when you start to see people now walking in our communities here in the West Shore, brandishing a handgun.

Um, you know, you start to see reminiscence of uh you know the lower mainland and Kelowna and those places.

The the same thing that I've I've told you for the last number of years we want to avoid.

Um so we're trying our best uh to you know to deal with these individuals, and that's uh part of the reason that we started up this uniform gang task force so that we can try to curb uh with all the the development here um some of the unsavory characters that are moving in.

Um on November 26th, we went to a suspicious residential fire uh on Rita Road.

Uh the occupants were able to escape with their injury.

The potential suspect uh has been identified, and that file is under investigation.

Uh our traffic initiatives, uh our traffic unit is uh consists of a corporal.

I think you've met him, uh Corporal Mike Jacobson and three constables.

And they've been uh in all the school zones.

We've got a ton of really positive feedback from the community saying they're seeing them in the right spots at the right time.

So unless I hear anything different, we'll continue on that same same path.

In the last uh month, they issued uh 12 violation tickets and 33 warnings throughout the community there.

Um that's in your area, uh, from what I understand.

Uh Callwood, the officers responded to a complaint of a BC transit bus driver uh from a bus uh bus driver that a sexual assault had just occurred on the bus on uh Gold Stream in Whale, uh, just inside Callwood's area.

The bus driver had uh been notified by the victims, promptly called us.

We were directed inside the bus where the suspect and victims were still present, and we arrested the intoxicated suspect and took him into custody.

View Royal, on November 2nd, we attended the hospital early hours on November 2nd.

After protection services officer reported she'd she had been assaulted on the 31st by a hospital patient.

The protective services officer is helping hospital staff when the patient became aggressive and had punched the female protective services officer in the face, and she required medical attention as a result of that injury.

Some of the best money we've spent, uh, I shouldn't say we you have spent, um, has been in the form of uh contributions to the the uh counselor, the uh joint counselor position for Pacific Family Services that's working uh jointly with our community policing dealing with youth at risk.

So it's it's been fantastic.

We've had some great great successes, uh including some young sexual exploitation and some um just some really troubled troubled youth that we've been able to have a really positive impact.

And um, yeah, uh I look forward to actually bringing some of the the successes to you and perhaps bringing some of the staff in to for them to tell you firsthand um what they're seeing and how they're helping your community and and your youth.

But I'm pretty proud to be part of this one.

So yeah.

Uh cram the canoe.

So we the local food bank here in the West Shore.

Um again, another fantastic story.

Uh gives me goosebumps to tell you, uh, the spirit of West Shore.

We actually parked at the superstore with uh our giant canoe, which holds 25 uh 25 kids and uh it's huge.

And we had a whole bunch of minivans and trucks and everything else.

We literally essentially had to turn people away by the end.

We had no more room.

And the food bank said that that'll probably keep them stocked up till June, the amount of stuff that we brought down there.

Um so it's uh again another fantastic initiative.

Doing lots of restorative justice.

One of the auxiliaries uh told me just now that we have we've had 12 referrals for restorative justice.

So these are, you know, again, that gives us an opportunity instead of putting them before a court with a uh, you know, which we haven't had a lot of success in courts.

Um, and I and I don't think there's it's the right avenue, anyways, for a lot of these individuals.

Um, petty thefts and mist little mischiefs and stuff like that, where we can have that one-on-one uh time with them and the restorative justice.

And it's again going going phenomenal.

Um, we have 12 right now that we can we've we've deferred away from the court process, the court system, and that we'll be dealing with uh at the detachment level.

Um the building, unfortunately, we are I I've told you a number of times, we are fastly running out of space in that building.

Um again, I'd love to to show you the mayor and counsel and uh of course the CAO um to do another tour here to show you what I'm telling you.

Um we're gonna end up having to put some uh tin cans in the back of the detachment, I think this year, probably for exhibits and maybe a few other things there.

Um running out of desks or running out of space it's it's becoming uh uh it's gonna be a real issue here soon I think so we do have blueprints that have been started and and renderings but um I think we'll I'll you know I'll let Kim uh update you as to the progress uh that we're hopefully moving forward on because uh we're gonna need something in the next 18 months two years otherwise uh I don't know what we're gonna do but um other than that I think that's it for uh for updates I'll take some questions if you have any good questions Council Manson?

Yeah, I'm just curious in terms of uh homeless issues.

Any change, better or worse?

Um, what's happening during the winter months and and all the rain, etc.

Uh, we're we're definitely seeing uh more panhandlers.

Um we've taken a pretty firm approach um with the panhandling.

Um and yeah, we we are seeing more homeless, but you know, we tr we try to deal with it at the lowest level and try to get them you know into shelters or some sort of um care facility.

Uh but we're definitely seeing it it kind of breach over the levee from Victoria into the West Shore for sure.

Okay, thanks.

Anyone else?

Councilor Rogers.

Uh how are you doing in terms of um uh complement?

Uh are you at full complement with uh the number of officers?

No, we were doing exceptionally well this year, and it's only been the last few months here, where um unfortunately we have been riddled with a lot of cancer uh in the detachments, a lot of uh serious illnesses, uh injuries, physical injuries.

Um it's a baby factory over there too, it seems to be.

Because we've got a lot of maternities and paternities.

Uh I think there's seven members uh off right now with maternity and paternity, and another one uh set to go here in uh January.

So um we are doing some extra backfills and I'm I'm bringing in extra bodies.

Um trying to anticipate the the vacancies and uh with the growth it makes it a little easier.

We're in a we're in a pretty uh pretty good position that way because I know every year that we add caught into the complement.

So if all of a sudden everybody came back, I knew you know I'll I'll be able to do uh reconcile within the year type of thing.

But it's uh it I will say it has been substantially more difficult to get uh to get transfers here not because nobody wants to move to the West Shore.

So I don't have to worry so much about going over budget.

In fact I'd suggest that uh the vast majority of the RCP would love to to live in the West Shore but when the starting home price is a million dollars uh it's pretty difficult.

So the established members don't come.

So we get the uh we get them out of the factory.

So right now we have uh eight I want to say seven or eight recruits uh currently at the detachment.

So we're working with some of the other municipalities and perhaps there's uh an opportunity here as well i know langford and callwood uh seems to have uh a possible appetite i know langford does uh to try to help out with some sub subsidized uh rental uh just for the the members and when they come out of depot uh for uh the first couple years because they're they're making sixty thousand dollars uh coming here or whatever it works out to uh so we'll we'll see if that comes to fruition.

Following on that um you know when you say you know there's a there's a challenge in getting full compliment uh on top of um the increase that you're getting of of uh number of staff number crimes reported so it uh it does sound you know very challenging it is challenging when you look at you know you look at policing uh around the world right now it used to be um you know it's sad uh I find it disparaging myself uh I've always taken a ton of pride in in uh wearing a uniform and serving serving communities uh but I think over the years our our image and uh um it's taken a beating to be frank and there's not as many people that want to be police officers anymore.

Um we have trouble attracting just like every other uh municipal department around the country, around North America right now.

Uh Big PD just put out a thing offering $20,000 incentives for for anybody to to join Vic PD because they can't find people that want to do this job.

Uh through the chair.

Um the um, you know, pardon my ignorance, but you know, if the Surrey police detracted detachment is going from RCMP to um municipal, yeah.

Does that free up RCMP officers elsewhere in the province?

Yeah, so so far my understanding is there's only been about 25 members.

I think they were hoping that half the force would jump over.

Um I think there's a lot of a lot of pride.

A lot of members join the RCMP and have a lot of pride in the outfit and are very grateful to the outfit.

And I think we've only seen around 25 um jump over from Surrey.

And a lot of those probably have uh service or pensionable services.

I'm just guessing at that, but where they can double dip, if you will, they can pluck their pension and go work um at another police force and double dip for income.

Uh I'm not we yeah, they're they've only got 29 bodies on the on the ground right now in in uh Surrey.

And uh as you can tell, it's kind of a hot mess uh over there with uh with everything.

We don't want to talk about the mayor.

I'm not yeah, I will not uh I will not go down that uh rabbit hole, but uh yeah, I've read the papers uh much like all of you.

So I uh you know, with the Surrey thing, uh there's an election coming in uh in October.

Yeah.

Who knows what'll happen after that.

But we're not in a position to re-allocate those.

If I may one more.

Um, you know, you again you're speaking of the statistics and so forth, and we just heard um the grim statistics um from the province on drug overdose.

And I'm assuming that the our island and west shore are just as um um you know tragically hit from that issue as well.

Um Absolutely we are.

Yeah.

Um yeah, it's you know, the suicides that we go to, the overdoses we go to, uh the you know, the drugs, the mental health, uh it's it's rapid.

Uh every one of our members carries an alloxone around and countless have uh have used it on more than one occasion.

And it's the ones we don't get to in time.

But I mean it's the ones that they just need to be in complex care facilities where they can actually get the treatment they need.

We have a follow-up from Counselor Matson.

Hopefully that'll come.

But first, um your worship, did you have a question?

Counselor Kowalowich, did you have a question?

Not today.

Thank you, Superintendent.

Okay.

Thank you.

Counselor Matson.

And just a quick one in terms of the the building.

I'm not sure if we've discussed this, but um why not keep that building as is and just put build another build a smaller building to like another like yeah, the another department.

I mean same department, but I mean just uh another location, have additional officers.

Well, I think there's there's quite a number of reasons.

Uh call yours, uh you guys hired callers uh consulting and they've they've done the assessment and they've come back and recommended that um we build on the same site that we're on.

I mean there's lots of reasons uh that we wouldn't now you're maintaining first of all you're gonna build and you still have to pay for another building, and there's huge security um costs that go into maintaining a second building.

Do you have a set uh cell block in that area?

The efficiency of having two different department different departments in different buildings.

Um they said the maintenance of of two buildings.

Um and over the the cost, I know that uh Callwood Mayor, uh or sorry, Callwood CAO, he's looked at that uh as well and said, Yeah, he he doesn't support it.

Uh the numbers don't make sense to do that.

You're just all you're doing is postponing um the purchase and addition of a building down the road you're you're deferring is all you're doing at that point okay okay got it all right um well uh all I can say is there's I what a difficult difficult job and I I think I understand why there's fewer um people wanting to become police officers at a time when they're most needed so what um you know, thank you for doing what you do.

One question.

When when there is a uh situation of a patient who who is violent in hospital, what's done with that person?

How are they w what happens?

They can't they don't go off to jail.

I are they know the treatment first, but there's secure rooms within the hospital.

Yeah, okay.

And so they'll be secured within the hospital.

Um again, all uh many times we're dealing with mental health patients that in my humble opinion have no business being in that emergency room in the first place.

Even when you look at the um, you know, just how fair it is to the patient.

So we drag a uh you know, somebody down there that's mental health, uh, you know, mental health related call.

We sit in a waiting room for an hour and a half, two hours.

Everybody else looks around and sees this individual sitting beside the police and judge this individual based on the fact that they're sitting beside a police officer um like I I don't know where that or how that's acceptable in our in our society like thinking if we had an actual designated facility to take these into especially when there's significant wait times um you at least give some dignity and respect to those people that are kind of at the lowest point in their life uh that had to be apprehended by the police because of concerns for them or others but yet we keep them and we wait for them and and you know I can only imagine how embarrassing and that time shameful and the lack of dignity that they they feel.

So one more real quick one.

I just wonder is the craziness you you hear down in the States is with the anti-police rhetoric, et cetera, is that is that sort of coming up here or is that just stopping at the border?

Because it's no, I mean it's social media, right?

So you get um yeah yeah and you have such a divide down there with uh obviously the you know the Trump and uh the you know the Republican Democrat uh divide of which is you know the it's incredible to divide but yeah we we do see the the spillover for sure um and it's kind of like an us and them type of mentality and the last thing we want uh I I mean I don't think it's as bad as down in the states, but I would absolutely agree with you that it's there's a spillover.

And so people judge us all with the same the same brush.

It's frustrating.

At a municipal level, is there anything we can do?

You guys show show support?

You guys have been absolutely incredible.

You know the support uh you know I got the letter from Mr.

Mayor here I read uh the other day from uh Minister Farnsworth and I mean you guys have you're doing what you can do I I know that it's not that I if I felt you didn't understand you know some of the the issues that we have uh I'd probably bring it to your attention but I know you understand it and you have all been uh exceptional so we're and I I must say when I look at the other councils uh you know we in in other communities uh I feel very fortunate to be standing before this council um and not some of the other mayor and councils that perhaps don't have the same uh the same opinion of police and uh I'll leave it at that, but I I do say thank you.

Well, a letter doesn't, you know, if a if if a letter isn't moving anything, um there has to be another strategy or another tactic to um to get some because it's not sustainable.

It's not and it's it sucks because policing's really expensive.

Um you know, when it comes to you can't just keep throwing police.

We're not we we can't solve all the all community police problems.

So thank you.

Thank you.

Uh do we have motion?

Thanks, Todd.

I'll move receipt.

Second, second.

Second second.

All those in favor, opposed, motion carried.

Thank you, Superintendent.

And I'll mend receipt of the building department report.

Opposed.

Second member.

Second.

Second good.

All those in favor.

Carried.

Thank you.

Um Merry Christmas.

Merry Christmas as well.

Ho ho ho.

And so we're gonna move right into I'm hurrying us along a bit because we have a lot on the closed agenda.

Okay.

Um so 6.23a, the budget variants and projects updates.

Move receipt.

Thank you.

Move staff recommendation.

Yeah.

Second.

Yeah, which receipt.

Yep.

Comments, questions?

No?

Okay.

Opposed, that's carried.

Good to see the casino revenue.

Yes.

Kim.

And um we have our CAO update.

Good afternoon.

Thank you.

So we're at that part of the year where we're starting uh the transaction for 2022 and at the same time we're dealing with 2021.

And so our our counter is busy as is normally the case at this time of year.

So we have things like dog tag renewals and business renewals happening?

Um, in November, we had on the 15th of November a public open house to get some feedback on the topic of potentially increasing the council size.

Seven people attended the event, and uh you know, with the small numbers, uh, likely because of the incremental weather and power outages, we will be offering a second open house on January the 17th.

And uh, to make sure that our electorate is well informed, we are sending an addressed mail out, a QA, if you will, to um inform the public of what's going on and uh improve the public awareness on the subject matter, and hopefully January 17th will generate larger numbers.

We were very successful this year with our United Way campaign.

We managed to raise a grant total of almost $8,500, and I think that's the amount that we've raised since we started.

So we're doing very well.

Our record management and archivist is managing a project.

We successfully tested offline more material, and uh we will be doing more material and that will be online in the near future.

Thank you, Sarah.

Um the finance department has sent out the 2021 sewer utility invoices in October, and so that's that's kept us busy through to the end of November, and we are achieving uh significant increases in those that pay online.

For the last three years.

We've gradually increased the numbers of those that make payments online as opposed to coming into the front door and paying in person.

Our 2021 interim audit started in last week, December the 6th.

And the finance department is currently focusing on the year-end accounting procedures.

And again, our financial plan development is continuing, and we're looking forward to meeting with council late January, early February.

Our development services department is busy.

We're doing a lot of policy project work, including the official community plan update, the community climate action strategy, and the park signage strategy.

Coincidentally, both all three of those reports are on today's agenda.

In terms of development, the approving officer has issued a preliminary statement of conditions for a subdivision to create an additional residential lot on 148 Atkins Road.

The development at CDS Lake is going according to plan.

Park have been completed.

The applicant's plan is to construct the overall 178-unit apartment townhouse development over the next several years.

Our engineering department and parks department have been very busy this past month with the inclement weather.

They've received over 120 individual requests for service, which is just shy of double the average volume of monthly calls during 2021.

Of these requests, 48 were related to November storms.

Severe rain events in November put drain and sewer systems to the test.

Fortunately for View Royal, we emerged with no sewer overflows and with minimal drain festive lights, banners, baskets have all been installed throughout View Royal.

New this year is the Sequoia tree at Watkins Way Roundabout, which has been decorated for the holiday season.

We have managed to install a new water fountain at uh View Royal Park next to the playground.

The uh the fountain features a conventional drinking system as well as water bottle filling and uh a bowl for the uh animals in our family, a dog ball.

Um our parks engineering department also set up a sandbagging station at Helmcken Centennial Park to support our residents uh with flooding issues.

Um the station was well used and appreciated.

We did get uh a note the other day from one of our residents expressing accolades and and thanks for the work that uh our engineering and park department has done.

And that's my report.

Thanks, Kim.

I sent Director Rosenberg and the Parks Department an email about that sequoia, because it it really does it it looks wonderful and and it's great.

And I I look forward in the years to come of um there's a big one by Honda City that's had lights put on it for every year.

And now that we started, of course, we're gonna have to keep it up.

And the one on Honda City, uh they actually have to bring in big cranes now to get the lights on it when they do it.

But it's a real landmark tree, and that one has the same potential.

Anyhow, questions for Kim?

Councillor Rogers.

Um, thank you.

Great news about the uh the dog um and the public um drinking fountain and view hall park.

So thank you so much for that.

I'm really excited about that.

I was surprised um with the the flooding that uh happened along Marlar Drive and Highland Road.

You know, that was that was uh really quite a surprise.

Um were the properties um you know significantly damaged uh from from that?

Or was it or can I say just backyards?

I don't know.

Well, I understand that the fire department did respond there for some flooding issues, but they're they weren't as significant as what the photos might depict.

Okay.

And again, uh compliments to staff for providing a um a uh sandbag um uh station at Centennial Park.

Were there many that took advantage of that?

Critchley did.

John?

We know Mrs.

Yeah, is that right?

Yeah, thank you, Council.

Thank you, Councilor Roger.

Yes, actually um I think at last count were uh well over 500 bags.

Wow.

Wow.

Is that right?

Okay, perfect.

Yeah.

Was it just the bags, or did they use the sand too?

Sorry, um and the bags are filled with sand, yeah.

Right.

How do how did people become aware?

Um, we had Jen Cochran put it on our social media uh pages and on the website as well.

And then picked it up.

Media picked it up, and we did a small interview with CBC Radio.

Okay.

I have an unrelated question that's not in in the butt maybe with since we're at it.

Um the streetlights.

We've noticed that some of the streetlights in in the harbor area are suddenly much, much brighter.

Yes.

Uh I wonder I'm looking to same on Burnside.

They're they're the switch over to the LED.

The hydro program to convert all the lights to LED.

It's uh goodness now our turn.

I think they're going to be done, if not by the end of this week, uh mid-next week.

And so next down on the list are complaints from the public about the brightness shining into their bedrooms.

Um and they are coming back to uh do shading and and those types of things for houses that complain.

They can kind of there's different things they can do.

They can angle the light, they can also put up a little bit of um like a curtain almost on the one side of shield to kind of change the lights.

In some cases, there's not a lot they can do because they obviously still need the light to function in its capacity, but uh they will work at the residence on an individual basis.

Okay.

So there's not a dimmer switch on these.

There is not, no.

Okay, thank you.

The difference in the lighting is amazing, right?

On burnside, which has always been quasi dangerous even in parts for lack of visibility.

The the the difference with the LET LED lighting is is great.

Yeah.

You know, I can appreciate that on on Byrne's side, but we know we've got a quiet street that and and s suddenly we got noon.

Yeah, no, they're bright.

But I believe also, if I'm not mistaken, they use significantly less energy and are doing our bit for climate change in a big way.

Yeah, I I think there's a bunch of positives.

It is a program that they do charge us over a certain period of time.

So um from a expense point of view, I I think it's probably about three years of uh paying off that capital expense of changing them all out.

But once that's done, yeah, we realize savings in addition to the other benefits as well.

It's nice to hear they're coming back.

Councilor Mattson.

Yeah, just one of my dog walking buddies on Stewart says he doesn't have to put his lights on on in this house anymore because it's so well illuminated in the front.

I think the climate action benefits of that.

He doesn't have light.

Exactly.

Any other questions for Kim on his CAO report?

Move receipt.

Okay, receipt is moved.

All in favor.

Opposed.

That's carried.

Thank you, Kim.

So I'm gonna call the committee of the whole meeting back to order.

It's a reconvening of this afternoon's meeting.

So we have two petitions and delegations tonight coming right up, and they have fit up to 15 minutes each.

And then right after that is public participation.

So anybody at home wishing to speak to a matter on the agenda tonight, when the second petition and delegation is winding down, that would be the time to dial in.

And it's 778-402-9227.

And when prompted, enter conference ID 875-743-173 Pound.

And at the appropriate time in the agenda, I will then announce the last four digits of your phone number, ask you to mute the live webcast to avoid feedback, ask you not to use speakerphone to ensure sound quality, and that you unmute yourself by pressing star six.

And if you can begin by giving us your name and address for the record, please.

And that is for speaking to any item on the agenda tonight.

And then at the end of the meeting, there's also a question period where once again you can call that number and you can ask a question on any matter.

And so with that, we're going to carry on right to the Southern Vancouver Island Nature Trails Society.

Welcome.

You're very welcome to take it off if you'd rather.

Yeah.

It's easier to speak.

I'd like to thank the mayor and council for giving us this time.

I would like to acknowledge with respect that we are within the unceded traditional territories of the Loquanquin people, who are known today as the Esquimalt and Songhees First Nations.

My name is Daniel Camyad.

I am the executive Director of the Southern Vancouver Island Nature Trail Society.

I live at 269 Glen Early Drive in View Royal.

I grew up and went to school here, and I've spent 37 of my 53 years as a resident of Vie Royal.

Also with me today is Andrew Pape Salmon, who's joining us over the phone.

He sits on the board of directors of the society.

And please note with our apologies that the slide numbers are a little bit out of whack.

We will be referring to them by title.

That one's good.

All right.

So with that, I will pass that on to Andrew and move to the next slide.

Good evening, Mayor and Council.

My name is Andrew Pape Salmon.

I live at 795 Del Monte Place, Saanich, British Columbia.

And as Daniel noted, I'm a member of the board of directors of the Southern Vancouver Island Nature Trail Society.

This evening we're seeking endorsement from the Town of View Royal to meet with staff to discuss our proposed Coastal Connector Trail, a continuous nature trail between Cordova Bay and Finless and Arm, an east-west route, and to collaborate with the town on identifying and engaging stakeholders, considering alternative route options within Town of View Royal municipal boundaries, engaging the Capitol Regional District and other landowners, and if viable, establishing a business plan and partnerships to build and maintain and promote the trail.

I'll pass it over to Danielle Camiad to explain the details about our proposed trail.

Thank you.

Great, and next slide, please.

The proposed coastal connector trail.

The coastal connector, as Anna just pointed out, is a proposed trail initiative to cross the peninsula connecting and using existing trail infrastructure.

Some of the many benefits of this is the potential to enable access to many of our natural spaces through green forms of transportation, as well as improving mental and physical health.

Okay, and uh next slide, please.

The map that you see in front of you is uh the area that the potential trail alignment could go through.

Um you'll see on the far right uh the black line depicting the lockside trail.

The green lines are areas where there is existing trail infrastructure that could be utilized to make the uh the connection.

And the red dotted lines are areas where there are some trails, but further explanation would be needed.

Okay, next slide, please.

Coastal connector next steps.

The first step is consultation with all stakeholders.

Then investigate and map possible routes, following up with any relevant stakeholders or landowners.

If feasible, we would develop a business plan and partnerships to aid in fundraising and implementation, implementation.

We do not want to make work for the town of Uroyal, nor are we asking for money, but we would like your support and ideally an endorsement.

Next slide, please.

Okay, and next slide again, please.

So on the last slide, I would just like to close by taking a moment to tell you a little bit more about the society.

It was started in 2015 to promote properly designed and built trails.

The diversity of our trail creation accomplishments and our experience working with stakeholders, government, and the community positions us well to take on this project.

Thank you very much again for your time and consideration.

Thank you, Daniel.

Just hold there for a sec because I'd imagine that's questions.

Councillor Matson.

You mentioned about it getting our support.

What exactly does that mean?

Do you want a letter of support?

Uh who would it be addressed to?

Like who?

Yeah, I think it's a good idea.

Okay, great.

How can we really help?

Andrew, are you able to speak to that?

Yeah, you bet.

At this point, we're uh we're seeking endorsement.

Um and what that allows us to do is um build uh our um, if you will, support.

Uh currently we have endorsement from the the dis the District of Highlands, and uh after tonight we're sending a letter to the District of Saanich.

As the rightful uh jurisdiction uh uh of of oversight on land use, we it for within your municipal boundaries and your zoning bylaws and engagement with your citizens, we feel that endorsement is necessary.

If a trail is viable, we would then seek a letter of support, a formal letter of support towards funding applications.

We would always welcome in-kind contributions of staff time and if possible and appropriate support in areas within your jurisdiction, such as leveraging land development, if you will, to be aligned with the endorsement of this trail.

And the ultimate form of support would be for the trail to appear within your parks plan at some point in the future.

We're not seeking your ownership of the trail or management unless it's obviously Town of View Royal owned land.

Rather, it's endorsement at this stage.

And then, if viable, a letter of support for funding.

Thank you.

Just to follow up on Councillor Mattson's question, I mean, it surely all we could do at this point, given the lack of information, really, would be to support in principle of the concept.

I mean, is that what you're looking for?

Yes, we are.

And and most importantly, we'd like an opportunity to meet with staff to understand your interests uh with respect to land use and to determine whether uh a route uh uh that that goes through pre-existing parks uh which are owned by the CRD or a route that is um somewhat greenfield, if if you will, on privately owned land would be more aligned with your your interests.

So fundamentally, uh, our goal is to be able to access to meet with your staff to talk about the concept and to ground truth it within the context of your land use planning and your municipal goals.

Thank you.

Councillor Rogers.

Yeah.

Again, I I like the idea of connecting C to C.

It's um it certainly makes sense, and I think it'd be really very exciting.

Um, and I think it's still too early to um give a um uh a green light for this because there's there's a lot of unknowns.

Um, particularly in the V role sector, you've you've got two possible routes.

There's the green line that's outside of the lake, and then there's the green that dotted line that's in the PS Lake.

Um regional uh question two.

You're going to be approaching umage.

Will you be making a presentation of CRD?

Do you want to take that, Andrew?

Or yeah, and sorry, uh if you can repeat the the question, I had a little bit of difficulties.

I heard uh approaching Sanage and then CRD.

Could you please repeat the question?

That's right.

I I understand you're going to be uh making a presentation and uh getting Sanich's interest in supporting this.

Are you going to be making a presentation to the CRD?

Yes, thank you for your question.

And absolutely, yes.

Uh the CRD being the regional government and the uh the steward of the regional growth strategy, and also um the the principal ad uh proponent of uh parks and and uh protected areas in our in our region uh is is a is a critical and key stakeholder.

Also they they happen to own a big chunk of land that uh we were interested in um in considering for the trail.

Uh we are in conversation with CRD Parks Department regarding uh uh areas in the District of Highlands uh on their own land.

So the conversation has already begun.

However, we feel that having endorsement of all the authorities have uh all the local authorities, all the jur the three jurisdictions the trail goes through from uh from a land use perspective to start with and then going to CRD as the fourth municipality or sorry the fourth re local government or regional district uh in this case that we will approach and in parallel we've sent a letter to the indigenous uh uh the first nations and the indigenous communities uh that have traditional uh uh land use and and water use uh in these areas but that's a parallel uh process another question if I may um okay so you know, you like I said, you've got two routes through View Royal.

Um, and um what I'd hope for um in this presentation is that uh you would have drilled in and given uh detailed uh information about the um let's say the top line not going to Peter's Lake at all uh regional park, but the top line that's outside of PS Lake in within view oil, it and it's interesting how it's on view oil and along the border.

Um yeah, I would have uh really liked to see a detailed um uh description of those.

How much is that um are those trails and uh existing trails and road services?

Are they on private land?

Um you know, so I think that's what they're saying though, Councillor Rogers, is that they're they're looking for the endorsement to sort of go to that next.

Well, certainly.

So I I suppose a question to staff would be i mean it i mean clearly staff would be happy to to meet with these folks and and discuss the different options and then bring some information back to council okay okay so i i guess just one last comment you know the uh rog is my yeah thank you thank you um you know i know you folks have done extraordinary work i was uh privileged to go to an open house when you opened up the uh the trails in landford with uh mary young uh and that was uh i was absolutely astonished at the quality of work that uh that this society had done in that uh in that park.

And I have no doubt that the same quality of work that you'd be doing in in View Wall.

So I do look forward to getting the details and you working with staff, and I heartily support that uh that initiative.

Thank you.

You good?

Um I am good.

Um if staff is pleased to meet with them.

I think that was the their main ask.

So we're good.

Great, wonderful.

Thank you very much for coming, Daniel.

Yeah, thank you.

See you again.

Thank you.

And next we have Mr.

Wilson from 291 View Royal Avenue.

Uh welcome, welcome.

Thanks very much for the opportunity to speak to you tonight.

Um my presentation is on a timer, and so I'm hoping I can get through it.

It'll keep me on time.

Okay, we were on asked questions and yeah, and until later.

Um this fall I was able to participate in the uh public consultation for the official community plan, and doing that I read the documents that were available.

And and uh tonight I'd just like to look over three of those documents with you quickly.

And that's the OCP, the document itself, and two studies that are contributing to the update: the housing needs assessment and the land economics study.

Next slide, please.

So all three of these documents have a real dependence on population projections, the forecast of what the population is going to be.

Yet each of the documents uses a completely different population projection.

And they use that to drive the data that's produced in the studies.

Stats Canada and BC Stats don't agree with any of those population projections.

They show that it's probable that long term declines in population growth rate is going to occur.

The town will still grow, but not as fast as it has been.

It's been growing quite quickly.

BC stats, their most recent projection shows up to 2041 that slow, gentle decline and not quite as steep a rate of population growth.

So to look directly at the OCP document, I wondered after reading it, does this document uh support the consultation that's going on right now?

And looking through it, there's a lot of bylaw changes, as you know, that have been made since 2011 that form part of that document, but most of them are not apparent in the document right now.

Um, for example, the schedules L and P, which deal with land use, are not in the document yet, they're directly related to the public consultation that's been going on for the last few months.

There's also quite a few non bylaw changes that show up here and there in the document.

Yet there's uh there's no document change record.

So there's no real way to know what's sort of official or what's draft in the document we're using.

For example, uh the OCP population projections.

There's two of them on page seven of the of the OCP document.

Um they're quite recent.

Um they must be from this year, the most recent one.

Um but it's hard to tell what they are.

It's just draft information.

There's there's some significant data problems there.

The uh there's a mixing of unrelated data sets.

So that led me to also look and say, well, what's been implemented since 2011?

Because there's a implementation plan in the in the OCP, but there's no uh progress report that uh might guide the update.

Um, the same goes with the uh sustainability indicators.

Um there's there was progress reports are scheduled, but the information's not included in the OCP update document.

So those are some of the issues that I see in the current document that the the public's being asked to use.

And in my opinion, the the document is not ready to support the consultation that's going on right now.

It needs a page-by-page consolidation to prepare it for the update that's taking place.

Public input isn't is not informed input, it's not valid input if the document that you're being asked to work from is not current and not valid itself.

And then to turn to the housing needs assessment.

This is an assessment that's required by provincial regulation.

A lot of different types of data are collected, and then they're they're placed into these manu mandatory data tables.

And then and then, as part of the requirement, there's a summary form that's filled out.

And just as one example of many in this document, the summary form, which is supposed to have a five-year population projection entered into it.

There's a there's data in the in the document itself, but it's not used in the summary.

That uh thick red line is the five year projection that they they were required to make, but there's also these noisy projections that go out to 2038 and and mixed data from more than one data set is represented in some of the stuff that it offers as the output from the document.

Now, this document does do lots of things correct.

For instance, it spotlights the housing vulnerable in uh in particular in Fort Victoria, Victoria, and other precariously housed residents, but I think it's important because it's the only document that really focuses on this at all, where there's hundreds of people living sort of off the grid in Pew Royal.

So the housing needs assessment has an accuracy issue with the data output.

And so it would require a fairly merit major verification effort before you could use the data in the current update.

Um the third document is the land economics study, and it began began its life uh funded to uh look at commercial and intensive mixed use uh areas with a view that um that they're not growing, uh that growth is lagging in those areas, and recommendations for resolving that were sought.

Um they again start with a population projection, they use one another different one from the CRD, but then they completely change it by adding uh to the growth rate.

Now, this is the projection they offered up, and they they show exactly how it was changed, but there is no supporting reasoning to say why it was changed.

Why would you inflate the population growth like that?

So the dark line shows that that growth sort of heading off into the stratosphere.

And this is this is a contrived impression of growth.

So this matters because the creation of the demand forecasts that are the central part of this document of this study are entirely reliant on a one off population projection.

The numbers in the projection form are the base numbers for making those those projections.

They took a look at the town center development concept, and what they saw was it's unlikely to be financially attractive in the short term.

It might become viable, and it should be a long term objective for the town if the town's going to stick with it.

However, when they got down to the recommendations, they talk about uh think they think that the town should consider enforcement of zoning bylaws to encourage redevelopment.

What does that mean in the context of the town center?

Well, it means removing the housing vulnerable people from Fort Victoria, reducing the profitability of that business in order to encourage them to sell the land.

And this struck me as something that's fairly heavy-handed when it's in pursuit of what they already identified as a financially tenuous concept.

There's a bit of a clash with how I feel about that.

It could broaden the type of housing.

But they they recommend that there's four to six in fill housings per residential lot in the residential neighborhoods.

This is, you've got to remember this is based on what is an inflated growth projection.

Well, View Royal has been growing rapidly.

The last five census periods, 25 years, shows a huge growth in View Royal.

It has begun to broaden the housing types.

It's been growing faster than VC, twice as fast as the CRD, and the only municipalities that are faster are Highlands and Langford up to 2016.

In 2020, we remain on the list of the top 10 fastest growing communities in BC.

However, you have to ask, are we going to continue to race towards the highest density?

We're out of greenfield land to build on.

So my thoughts on the land economics study are that it veers into development or developer advocacy, and it paints a vision of growth at the highest possible rate that they could find a way to support.

So that made me wonder well, does the community support that?

The more recent community survey doesn't say that the community supports that vision.

Perhaps it could be refined by following the CRD definition of growth management.

Now, as you know, View Royal has a vision statement, and the CRD defines growth management.

View Royal manages growth while retaining the charm of its traditional neighborhoods.

And communities engaged in growth management assume a proactive stance in ensuring that the very qualities that attract growth are not destroyed for existing residents and future generations.

These two concepts are completely aligned with each other.

Add related documents to the public resource list so it's very clear where everything's headed.

Acknowledge the challenges presented by the housing needs assessment and the land economics study and find some way to work that around those challenges.

And finally to identify one credible population projection that can be followed for the that can guide the OCP.

So there's also opportunities.

Nanaimo, a very complicated town, has published one a year ago, and it is very instructive on a way to look forward and perhaps avoid reliance on population estimates in the future.

So in this short time, we've seen a few attempts to forecast the future population of View Royal.

When everybody uses different data, the forecast is noisy.

There's no clear signal to follow.

Yet calculations of housing needs, transportation requirements, job growth, commercial development, and so forth are married to these population forecasts.

Living in View Royal, a town surrounded by other towns, in a very desirable part of Canada, the demand for growth seems almost limitless.

Build it and they will come.

But because there is no more undeveloped land, build it means building over top of the View Royal we live in now.

We need to tread lightly and plan carefully.

A land inventory and capacity analysis could provide insight into the number of people that would live in a future View Royal that follows a managed growth model.

I don't believe the citizens of View Royal are interested in the fastest growth plan or the highest density plan.

I believe we all expect the smartest plan, one that ensures the very qualities that attract growth are not destroyed for existing residents and future generations.

And that concludes my comments.

Thank you.

Thank you.

This is on our agenda later.

I'll go to questions, although we don't um, yeah, I mean, we certainly have some questions.

I sense a real concern that you feel this is going to be a develop pro-development OCP.

And I just don't quite understand where that's come from because council made it abundantly clear before we even started the OCP review that we were not looking for any rewrite of the OCP in a major way, that this is a tweak.

And um, and also I'm I'm not sure that growth projections, I mean, they would be given some weight, but they certainly would not be the basis of View Royal developing its official community plan on what a growth projection may be.

So those would just be two observations I'd have to maybe give you a little bit of comfort, because you do you seem to be coming from a place of real concern.

I I'd have to say that I I agree with what you're saying.

And and I'm not completely worried about what changes are made to the plan exactly.

However, I am concerned with the accuracy of these documents.

And I don't think that you're going to give the best product unless you recognize that there is a number of challenges present there.

Yeah.

And then and then find a way to work around.

I have to be careful rebutting that.

I mean, those were both documents made by professional people that are accredited, and I have a lot of respect for the people who made them.

So do you have any questions?

I don't have any questions.

I have a number of comments, and some of them may have made before.

But I just in relation to one thing you did say, I haven't both uh Councillor Lemon and I having attended the OCP meetings.

I mean, it was made clear by the individual responsible for that for those meetings that both of the documents that were referred to would be used in develop redeveloping the OCP.

So that's one of my concerns is that it was council's direction.

Council referred both of those documents to the OCP process.

But if there's flaws in them, I would hate to see some of the flaws Councilor Matson, I don't want to get into debating this now.

It's on the agenda later.

Well it is.

Is it okay?

Oh yeah.

Anyways I agree with that point.

Counselor Rogers.

Yeah thank you for your your um your report your information your and your thoughts and on this um I guess question to my my question I hope you I know are you actively participating in the OCP workshops?

I have been yeah yeah okay great and um you know you you you you you pay, you know, you raise so many important questions in this process, and and I in it, you know, I agree that if we had an implementation plan and if we had uh have been implementing that plan, uh where is that those that plan reflection uh and how will that be reflected in the new OCP?

Um so that's that's certainly something I'll be wanting to uh to watch for.

Um you you raised the point that uh there's different population uh growth standards.

Um do you have any sense that you think is the best flavor?

Should we wait for the uh uh census population to come out in February 2022?

I I'm not trying to to pick a growth projection.

Yeah, okay.

Um they're very complicated things.

Um the CRD has put out a number that are not very complicated or not very sophisticated.

Um there are others.

And I think what's most important is to pick one and and use it.

Um they're gonna change.

The the census data that comes out is going to be very important to uh to pay attention to because it's the the once in five years opportunity to have a reset and fully get population data, dwelling data, and that and uh uh employment data that um that is the freshest.

It goes stale very rapidly in a five-year cycle.

Yeah, you know, you you certainly do raise a question for me is is you know, if we're looking to uh keep uh an OCP without much changes, and yet uh we have you know these these huge demands from the from the um uh from the public for affordable housing.

And uh we see in our current OCP um um surprises propping up like Ursula Lane, you know, a thousand residents going on to Urskin Lane and and the development of six mile, you know, huge since the last OCP.

Um have you have you asked any of these questions specifically to staff?

No.

I would encourage you to do so.

Thank you.

Yeah, yeah.

I I think it's you raised significant points here.

I'd love to, you know, hear what what uh staff give you as in terms of feedback, and I'd like to um you know certainly speak to you later when uh when we get into the nitty-gritty and when that OCP draft comes.

I look forward to talking to you.

Sure.

Great.

Thank you very much.

So just before I go to anyone, for anyone at home who's thinking of calling in on public participation, this would now be uh a good time to call in.

Did you have any questions, Councilman?

No, I I have no questions, but I I want to thank you for an astonishing amount of work.

And uh which I'm I'm guessing you enjoy it.

I know you're in order to do this.

But it's it's um it's thorough and and impressive and and something to digest.

So thank you.

Well, thank you very much, and thank you everybody for your time.

Thank you for your work and for your interest, and and the more people that are involved in the process and everything, the better for everyone.

Right.

And it's a challenge to get people involved.

So I take my hat off to you for the work you've done.

Oh thank you.

Okay.

Thank you.

Maybe get some training in how to do that.

I mean the the slide presentation.

It's impressive.

So next up we have public participation.

So staff, do we have any callers on the line?

Your screens currently there are no callers.

Oh.

Well, it surprises me given what's on the agenda.

Okay.

Well, maybe we'll pause just for 30 seconds, just in case people decide they'd like to call in.

It's the number to dial is 778-402-9227.

And when prompted, enter conference ID 875-743-173-pound.

And we'll just pause for 30 seconds.

Quick question.

January 16th or 18th or something?

Sarah?

Go on, quick.

I can look.

I think it's the 11th.

Tuesday, January the 11th, and then is that Cal or Council?

Committee of the Hole.

Okay.

So our next council meeting isn't actually till January 18th.

From clear hole to clear the hall.

Yeah, there'll be two sets of committee hall recommendations to poor council.

Shoot.

Why does this do this?

I just thought you had a document.

I'm mine is the only one that does.

It's forever falling, and it's in the right spot in grooves.

Stop breathing on it.

I don't know.

It's weighty stuff in there.

Has Damien had anything he wanted to say that he didn't he missed?

I he put seems to put although I don't know that I would see his hand now, but he will text me if he does.

Okay.

I saw his hand up earlier.

Today, like this evening, or yeah, little orange hand.

No, I I uh I did not have my hand up this meeting.

It was last meeting, uh Councillor Matson.

But thank you for thinking of me.

I appreciate that.

That's what happens as when you get a bit older.

It just seems seems like it's all one meeting.

I think I saw the hand up before last meeting.

Yeah, I think if we don't have any callers on the line.

We do have a caller.

Oh great.

Last four digits one two zero five.

Okay, thank you.

Caller with the last four digits one two zero five.

This is your opportunity to speak.

If you would like, please press star six to unmute yourself.

Thank you.

I believe I'm unmuted.

Can you hear me fine?

We can, yes.

Fantastic.

My name is Janice Della Viola, and I live at uh 333 Stuart Avenue.

And I just wanted to call in and commend the presenter for doing all that work and reading um finding points that maybe are for good discussion and analysis.

And I just wanted to commend people for standing up and you know taking an interest.

It's it's difficult to get people contributing, I'm sure you must find.

And so I just thought it was um really great that um the presenter was able to provide some factual information that we can consider and look at and um provide for for future investigation.

Okay, thank you very much for the call.

Unfortunately, they've left, so they they didn't but we that's fine i just wanted to make sure that that was passed on but but thank you very much for your time nope thank you do we have any other caller stuff uh no further callers okay thank you so I'm gonna pass the chair along to counselor rogers for parks wreck and environment oh thank you and I'll um under chair's report I will once again reiterate the great news from staff that uh we do have a drinking fountain in View Royal Park and and congratulations.

I know that's gonna be very much uh appreciated in the summertime.

So with that, thank you.

I will move on to the parks um wayfinding strategy and uh session to staff.

Thank you, Chair.

I am just going to launch my PowerPoint.

I believe I will have to share my slide here.

It's not there we go.

I'm James Davison, I'm uh uh community planner at the town of View Royal.

The purpose of this report is to present um an uh an introductory framework for developing a parks wayfinding strategy for the town.

So the report emerged as a request from council as part of a budgeting process, and the initial direction was to do really a one off sign for a park, followed by development of a more comprehensive wayfinding strategy.

So in 2015, the town added wayfinding signs for cycling and pedestrian linkages to and from the ENN and the Galloping Goose.

And the town updated the parks and trails guide in 2019.

So in the View Royal Parks Master Plan, wayfinding and interpretive signage demerges as an issue to be added.

So adding or improving upon the wayfinding within parks.

In the past, councils also pondered a pathway or trail rating system to be included in information provided on town maps and town signs.

This item was introduced to PREAC, and their recommendation supported the sign typology as presented by myself at that meeting.

There's a variety of information that can be conveyed in the sign, including the name of park, both English name, and as taken as a cue from City of Victoria, who's adding First Nations names to their park, to their parks.

And this I have borrowed heavily from the city of Victoria in this in this draft program because they've got way more people, way more resources, and it seems to be a good program.

There's regulatory signs, so no smoking hours, dogs on and off leash, that sort of thing.

There's park features like kayak launches, picnic tables.

There can be maps showing a visual representation of these features, interpretive signs, which delve a little bit deeper into cultural, natural, uh heritage, history, natural processes, all those things, as well as directional signs.

And uh providing the the above information on signs requires considering of consideration of the type of the sign, the design of each sign, and the location of each sign.

So View Royal's current park signs could definitely be improved.

There's there's consistency in the park's naming, uh naming signs, um, but having both the town and CRD bylaw uh signs presented together can often be a little bit cluttered.

And there's a lack of information about parks, features, mapping, interpretive, and directional signage, uh lack of cultural sensitivity in identifying First Nations uh landmarks and histories.

Uh there's a need for a significant amount of signage in the uh in the town.

Um sorry, the need is reduced by smartphones.

So keeping in mind that people have smartphones on them and they do uh have a map and an information um tool with them, uh, but at the same time providing uh on the ground logical and consistent information.

And the standardization of type design and location makes for consistent, attractive, and predictable messaging within a park system.

So the locations of signs, the city of Victoria uh guide that was attached to the report provides a very detailed set of uh guidelines for locating uh signs and similar similar um findings would and and and applications would likely uh be good for View Royal.

Uh the consensus was that main arrival points are the most critical areas for signs in parks.

So larger parks require more information, and the type of information provided is is unique for each park.

Uh system by which signs are located can be standardized.

I'll go over that in a bit.

Wayfinding within parks beyond providing locations of features at main arrival points is really only required for parks which are very large or difficult to navigate.

So confirmation signs that you're going in the right direction are very rarely needed in urban parks such as View Royal.

And the proposal from staff builds on these best practices to create a standard system of signs in View Royal.

So there's signs and a classification system from the parks master plan regarding the type of sign, excuse me, the type of parks that we would uh create plans for, including community parks, neighborhood parks, green space parks, natural green space parks, shoreline access, linear parks, and special purpose areas like Craigflower Manor.

Community parks and natural green spaces may require arrival point information, park features, mapping, regulatory, and sometimes wayfinding and interpretive signage.

So that would be something like View Royal Park.

Smaller neighborhood parks may require less information.

Green spaces may only require naming and some regulatory information, such as no smoking or something.

And special purpose areas like Lime Kiln Park may warrant uh a full interpretive sign with history and additional context.

So the City of Victoria has outlined very clear signs within their sign document.

So there's park ID sign, regulatory post, directional post, park directory sign, and interpretive signs.

So I've kind of copied that and we'll show that later.

Signs should have consistent design and messaging.

They can include allowances for visually disabled people, colorblind individuals, and be made very durable, uh resistant to vandalism and visually unobtrusive.

As far as the cost of signs, I do have a call into the city of Victoria to make a ballpark estimate for how much these signs would cost.

That would be something that staff would look at uh in the financial plan.

And um operational costs are expected with signs for annual cleaning and maintenance and that sort of thing.

As well as trail rating system, council may want to consider adding adding this to the town signage.

Uh preacted mentioned this uh within the past couple of years.

Uh, creating various ratings would assist in determining trail accessibility for all users of parks.

So we could have a number of different rating systems from regional pathways, easy trails all the way to a proper wilderness trail.

So staff suggested a framework for current and future sign standards be created in much the same way as the City of Victoria's done to create consistent, predictable, and repeatable signs for all locations within the town.

Consultation with First Nations could be helpful in determining if there are important First Nations locations and information that could be included on signs.

Town may wish to consider contracting contracting external content providers, especially for interpretive signage.

And I did attach sample implementation to the report.

I've included a few samples here: park identification sign, directory sign, directional post, and interpretive sign, and what those may look like.

As far as a directory sign location, for instance, as an example, something that would be included in the pedestrian access to somewhere like View Royal Park.

It would have directional and distance uh signage uh to distance to various park features, as well as a map and uh an indication of uh icons and uh where those would be located within the park.

Uh creating a uh standard set of of uh universally um accepted icons would would be very good for people of all ages.

Even if kids can't read, they can certainly look at look at pictures.

As far as a portage park sign sample, uh we could include this uh in in some way for most parks, including the uh color coding where the signs are located, um and and creating a hierarchical system of where signs would would uh potentially be required in in such a park.

So the recommendation is the council receive the report.

Thank you okay thank you staff questions comments both and i i think this is great i think and kudos to um staff and to whoever initiated this as a as a worth worthwhile undertaking and project um my um initial response was that the black is not you know it's not warm it doesn't speak nature, it doesn't speak um uh parkland.