Committee of the Whole

Great, thank you.

Good afternoon, everyone.

Where's my blurb that I have to read?

So the committee of the whole meeting is called to order.

And I'd like to start the meeting by recognizing our friends and neighbors, the Esquimalt and Songhees Nations.

This meeting is being held under the auspices of Ministerial Order M192 due to the COVID-19 pandemic and the public health officers' orders prohibiting gatherings in excess of 50 people.

This afternoon we will hear from the public during public participation, and this evening we will also hear under public participation and question period portions of the agenda.

The information is on your screen if you're live, if you're live streaming.

So you dial 778-402-9227, and then when you're prompted, you enter the conference ID, which is 462-187-283 pound.

And when we get to the appropriate point in the agenda, I will announce the last four digits of your phone number.

I will ask you to mute the live webcast to avoid feedback and ask you not to use speakerphone to ensure sound quality and also remind you to unmute yourself by pressing star six.

As you can tell, I have a lot of requests to begin with.

You can just give us your name and address for the record, please, and then you can give us the benefit of your views.

If you're providing comments through the chat feature, that feature is open during the public participation portion of the agenda and then also the question period.

The meeting will be recorded.

By participating in this webcast, you are consenting to it being recorded, and the recording will be available on the town's website for future access.

And with that, I just need a motion to approve the agenda, please.

Second.

Okay, thank you.

Everyone good?

Okay, all in favor, opposed.

That's carried.

So if if anyone is out there in the internet world thinking of calling in for public participation, you'd be good to do that right now because we're going to be there in about 35 seconds, I think.

So we have no.

So the next we have the minutes from October 13th.

Someone can approval.

Thank you.

Second.

Any comments, corrections?

No.

All in favor, opposed.

That's carried.

We have no petitions and delegations.

So we are indeed at public participation period.

And just in case those people will maybe just pause for 30 seconds to give people a chance to call in.

The information is on your screen.

Your worship, I do have three callers in the queue.

Oh, okay.

Well then let's let's start then with them and then others can call in if they have time.

So go ahead, Don.

Okay, we have a caller 0569.

Okay, caller with the last four digit zero five six nine.

This is your opportunity.

Oh, hello, good afternoon, Mayor and Council.

Hi, it's Jane Devonshire here from 242 Glenairlie Drive.

It's Jane Devonshire.

I'd like to speak to the agenda item 6.2.3B regarding the Council initiatives.

Uh first of all, I would like to thank and applaud Councillor Rogers for all the fine work he's done on these initiatives.

All of these were in action, but I would particularly like to support items one and seven, the con the connectivity plan assessment criteria, and the action sidewalk.

Having looked over numerous municipal climate action plans, tackling transportation has always risen to the top of the agenda.

This is the number one item to address in order to reduce municipal greenhouse gas emissions.

By effectively increasing active transportation by making it safer and easier to walk, cycle, and take public transport, we can carve out a big chunk of those emissions.

In Bureau Satisfaction Survey, most residents are relatively close.

Okay, I'm just saying I'm I'm very much in favor of it.

I think um active transportation is a a key action that we need to take to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

And thank you for your kind attention.

So let's mobilize rapidly for the climate emergency we are in.

Well, keeping in mind, of course, the budgetary situation we're in.

But yeah, I certainly I agree with you that they're both things we'd like to see happen for sure.

Right, awesome.

Thank you so much.

Thank you, Jane.

Okay, bye-bye.

Your worship, the next the next caller, the last four digits, two four nine one.

Okay, caller with the last four digits of two four nine one.

This is Nancy.

Good afternoon.

Hello, Mayor.

Yeah, goodness of Screech and Council.

This is Nancy Kessick at 199 Atkins Road, and I'm calling to uh support the council initiative to put a much needed sidewalk on Atkins and fund the design in 2021.

This is a matter that we're presenting uh to council this evening as a neighborhood petition.

And we uh would like to urge you to support it now.

Thank you.

Okay, thank you very much for the call.

All right.

Your worship, the next caller is the last four digits one four three eight.

Okay, caller with the last four digits 1438.

This is your opportunity.

Don't forget to press star six to unmute you.

This is Bob Reitsma.

Sorry, Bob who?

Bob Reitsma at uh 199 Atkins Road.

I'd like to just add my voice to the that you would uh accept the petition for the uh the sidewalk on uh Atkins Road.

Yeah, that group is coming forward tonight at seven o'clock under petitions and delegations.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Your worship, I don't have any any new callers at this time.

Um, I'm not sure if you want to check in with Jennifer for the chat feature.

I will.

Thank you, Don.

Is there anyone on the chat feature, Jennifer?

Thank you, Mayor Screech.

We actually don't have any comments this afternoon.

Okay, thank you.

So thank you, public, for calling in.

I'm gonna close off public participation, and I will hand the chair over to Councillor Lemon for Protective Services.

Thank you, Your Worship.

Um, I have no chair's report, nor business arising from the previous minutes.

Um, what we have is the public safety report.

And Chief Hurst, did you want to speak to this?

Yes, thank you, Mayor and Council.

Uh briefly, you have a report in front of you for the months of September and October, just outlining the work done in the Protective Services Department, which includes building bylaw and fire.

Just a couple of note.

Obviously, both Mayor and Council are aware.

Two significant events for Firewise.

September 8th, the Big O'Tire, the commercial fire on the island highway, went very well with uh significant help from our neighbors in Calwood and Langford Fire Department.

And then we reciprocated on October 8th with a large uh residential condominium fire on Goldstream Avenue at 840 Goldstream, where our crews were engaged for several hours.

Um, good outcomes on both events through our mutual and automatic aid agreements that we've been working on enhancing.

Um even though COVID has hit the department, the department still is um continuing to train.

We did take several months off and we had to modify our training program, but we're um back into an almost regular training regime with the volunteers, and those numbers are increasing, but those come with challenges, of course, as the public health orders and and Dr.

Ben Bok Dr.

Bonnie Henry's recommendations for numbers of people gathering.

So we're always evaluating that.

We've done that again today with with the recent numbers that are coming out of the lower mainland and preparing uh hopefully for what isn't an inevitability on the island, but we will be preparing if we do have to modify our our Thursday and training plans for the volunteers.

Um joint training still continues with Calwood and Langford fire.

That's going well, but again, we'll evaluate that on a probably on a week to week basis to make sure that we're uh following the the COVID guidelines.

Uh as you see under Troy's division, the emergency management, things are um things are always busy there with Troy.

Troy's managed to um he's just wrapping up some grants where he received some significant provincial money for the emergency social services team for equipment and training, and that equipment was put into service today.

Um building department, as you can see, uh there has been a significant slowdown in permits and inspections.

Um, we're hopeful that with projects online coming up that will uh that will increase the workload there, but it remains steady, but not uh at historic levels.

Also, bylaw um just about mid-October they they reached and then surpassed their 29 2019 file load.

So a lot more people home, a lot more uh complaints received and investigated, nothing overwhelming, but just the numbers seem to be increasing.

I think that's a direct result of people being home from work and seeing more in the community and noticing more as opposed to not being here during the day.

And finally, just a couple of uh points.

Um we took delivery of um a capital purchase 2020 rescue truck and that went into service it arrived on October 15th it went into service on November 6th and the um old unit was sold to Northwestern Fire Department up Island.

Two sort of notable things that the associations have been up to uh View Royal Fire uh partnered with the Esquimalt Charitable Association to set up a scholarship for Songhees Nation for the youth there.

Uh they presented uh funding to Chief Sam and counsel a couple weeks ago.

And uh as well, the association took on the challenge of Halloween this year, and they set up a a Halloween drive-thru at the Canadian Tire, which was very successful.

Like I think it was about 800, about 800 people came through from all over.

Yeah, it was it went exceptionally well.

So really pleased they took the time to do that.

They had uh quite a course set up and directed traffic through the Chicane and and delivered uh candy to children and adults.

So glad they took the time to do that.

Um we're just coming up to the graduation of a couple of recruits.

We have uh five that are going to graduate here in the new year, and our strength is pretty good.

We're at 34 with two vacancies.

We've had two uh two members recently hired, one with Saanich and one with DD.

So that's my report.

If you have any questions, I'm more than happy to to answer.

Uh uh, Councilman Manson.

Sure.

So I actually do have a number of questions today.

Um and this one I mentioned to Paul a little bit earlier, but I'm just wondering if uh we could on a uh at a committee of the whole at at this meeting, just like we don't see a senior staff very much, and so it'd be nice if they came to do present, do a little presentation on their section, just so we get to know them and they have an opportunity to speak in front of council.

I think that's I guess something if council would like to do.

But that's I mentioned this to Paul.

He thinks it'd be an okay idea, but it'd be nice to actually see the staff and let them know what they're doing.

Um so I don't know when you might want to talk about that.

Uh, but following along that emergency training.

So if there was an earthquake, so we we had this many years ago.

What does council do?

And so again, maybe we can just have a presentation on you know, if there's something significant that happens, what are what are we actually supposed to do?

Um it seems that we're getting along with Langford.

Do you mean if we're in council chambers when there is an earthquake?

No, if we're in general, if there's a major earthquake, what do we do?

Like, how does council didn't we have that presentation from Troy?

Is that many years ago though?

I don't think it was that long ago.

Not with either.

Yeah, so I don't know.

Damien was here.

Yeah, I didn't think it was that long, but at any rate, I mean we well, Jerry Jerry didn't have it anyway, so I just thought that would be a nice opportunity for them to come and speak to us.

Um you guys will all survive.

Uh so I also had a question on uh uh vacation rentals.

I'm just wondering what the issue is it, just not owner occupied or is it something else?

I mentioned did you noted there were a number of vacation rental bylaw enforcement fractions.

There there has been several and and it is a I want to say it's a complaint specific event where we do have a couple of properties that um are in contravention to the zoning.

So the bylaw officers working with those.

There is a a limitation on the amount of stay or or length of stay.

And we've had um we've had one particular one particular area in town where several several rentals are owned by the same person.

So they are non-own.

So there there are some challenges and those are being those are being addressed with the bylaw department.

Okay.

Um I'm glad to see the fire truck has gone to uh someone on the island.

I'm just curious as to what we got for it.

Uh 112,000.

Really?

Okay, thank you.

Um and Big O'Tire, sorry, I've been bid a few times, but I have no sound there.

Are they starting up again?

Have they started up again?

No.

Are they starting up again?

They yeah, they're um so as I understand it, the um it has gone to uh what's the word I'm looking for?

They've they've gone out to several companies for quotes to rebuild.

So it it will be uh rebuilt and it will open up again as uh as big O'Tire.

Okay.

And the the last question was I just wondered if there's any issues that are keeping you up at night and concerns, maybe not immediate ones, but ones in the future.

That upcoming run, that one's keep me awake.

Um that keeps me awake.

Always lots of concern.

I mean I guess our biggest concern is just that the health and safety of the of the volunteers and the staff with this COVID.

You know, they're um they're they're at a higher risk with their exposure levels with medical calls and dealing with the public in general.

They've been they've been extremely diligent in their in their social settings and their bubbles, you know.

But that's that's our biggest concern is is making sure that we're we're able to keep functioning as an organization in the event that it um it rears its ugly head inside the building.

But fortunately we've uh we've managed to uh keep everyone safe and we've managed to stay in business and keep the lights on.

Okay, thank you.

That would be about my biggest concern right now.

And I just wanted to thank uh thank thank the department for the our neighbor had 91-year-old neighbor's mother.

Um not the neighbor's mother, but Nathan's mother was 91 years old and she had uh uh stroke or something at the house and uh everything went fine and the uh that our neighbors are very pleased with the service that was provided, so thank you.

Good, thank you, counselor.

Good.

Thanks, Ron.

Um I I think John was next, and then John, you still have a question?

It's actually to direct your jobs roles.

Well, go ahead then.

Okay.

Just a dovetail on the this is more of a process question, but so in something like the tire shop burns down and they need to rebuild, how does that work?

Do they do they need to come back to the town at all?

And and do they does it come before council for the bill for building permits, you mean?

Or yeah, they would need building permits, yes.

Okay, so there's a potential that that could be they could want a newer, bigger, better commercial building there, or if what they're planning is compliant with their zoning, it would be as of right.

So they wouldn't need to come to council.

They would just need their permits to construct.

Okay.

But I don't yet know what they're planning.

Okay.

Good.

Good.

Uh thanks for the report.

Thanks, Tina.

Chuck?

Uh thank you.

Hi, Paul.

Um with respect to the uh earthquake uh preparedness.

Um has the uh department seen the CRD deployment equipment for uh the portable water if there is an earthquake?

Yeah, that's a good question.

I'll um I'll ask Troy about that.

That sort of slipped off the radar.

It was uh it was moving forward quite vigorously there pre-COVID.

So I'll uh I'll check with I'll check with Troy on that.

Yeah.

My my understanding is that they have acquired the equipment.

I I don't think it's everywhere yet, but it's um it's something that would be uh useful for for Troy and and you folks to have a look at.

With respect to the big O tire, um, you know, again, crush congratulations for for getting there and and working as a team with the other fire departments.

Uh what are the implications uh in terms of pollution um impacts on Mill Stream?

Again, you know that that's a good I mean obviously obviously that's one of our considerations, I mean it's life safety, property, and then the environment.

I know crews within within about 15 minutes of arrival were um starting to plug storm drains.

Our engineering department responded quickly and they were able to plug off most of the the storm drains that lead into into that that creek.

I don't know what the the lasting or if any damage was done to the creek, but I know I know the town was on top of that very quickly.

It's one of our first calls.

You'll notice in some of the photos that the the fire staff are standing in almost knee deep water because all the the storm drains were plugged.

So yeah there there was a consideration of that obviously because it was tires on fire and it was a commercial occupancy uh repair garage so um I haven't heard any feedback on any damage like pollution damage but I know there was mitigating mitigating attempts made like during the fire to to limit that.

Yeah.

Thank you.

And but at least the good news is that's it's a fast moving stream right now and and uh would help in in any flushing of of possible contaminants there.

The um the bylaw uh it would uh I you mentioned that uh we're getting um more calls in bylaw than we did last year uh it would be helpful to have um another column that showed uh 2019 um for each of the rows and to give a sense of uh which of the uh areas are are seeing mo the most significant uh impacts of of uh calls year to year comparison I can do that.

I can have the uh the bylaw clerk add that 2019 column so you do have a comparative.

Thank you absolutely and um we've always had in the past the a comparison of year to year on um the uh uh DCCs and builds that's that's going through the town and uh the revenue streams.

Um it would be helpful to see that chart back again too.

I'll make sure that happens from the next one.

We don't think we have on DCCs.

No, not DCCs, but you do have it with the bar chart and that showed uh the building permit value.

Permit values, yeah.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Good that it.

Thank you.

Good.

You're good.

I for some reason I can't open my report.

I don't know why, but anyhow, it's not that not that important.

I just it I've noticed around the town that we're seeing a whole lot of sandwich boards.

And part of me thinks that we need to give our businesses a a break at the moment.

Um but part of me also thinks we should make sure that they know that it is a temporary thing.

Like the six-mile liquor store every day puts two huge ones out on the sidewalk.

And our favorite cannabis store has two or three around Abril's Walk.

And so it may not be a bad idea to say, you know, during COVID, we're turning a little bit of a blind eye, but you know, do be aware that as time goes on that um we are going to enforce that bylaw again.

So yeah, thanks.

That's all that it.

Um I I have a question that probably doesn't relate to you, Paul.

Um, but you could perhaps, you know, just for you know public service um advise.

On my frequent nightly walks I pass a building where I'm pretty sure people are not they're not they're in meetings and I'm pretty sure there's not much social distancing going on so what you know if if the if the public sees a situation that they think could be dangerous what what do you advise people do as I understand it there is there is a number that can be called the the the town is not in a position of investigation and enforcement.

However, there are agencies that will take those complaints.

Okay.

And I can get you those numbers.

Okay.

And I that might be useful.

Yeah.

Okay.

Thank you.

Um, so do we have a motion to receive the report?

Report received.

So moved.

Second.

Second.

Okay.

And um that's it for me.

Thank you.

I just want yeah, I just wanted to clarify one thing.

The the sale of the truck, it was it was 100,000.

Um taxes were 12.

So it was excluding the taxes of $100,000 as we uh as we anticipated prior to the uh purchase of the new one.

Is is that what was in the the sort of budgeted figure for the transaction, was it?

Yeah, so we we we we hope for and anticipated $100,000 in revenue from that vehicle and we we achieved that.

Again, with COVID, it's such a I mean, it would normally be nice to have you know some not necessarily an open house, but just some opportunity where the community and council members could come by and see the new truck and from a from a council perspective, absolutely, and and maybe it's something we could tie in publicly when uh when we have that public art.

Yeah, that's true.

If if yeah, if in the spring we can we're allowed to actually do that.

Yeah, if the vaccine, if Donald Trump's vaccination comes online and we're all safe by then.

Thank you.

Damien's got a good question.

Um chief, who bought our truck?

North Oyster, um, part of the Couch Valley Regional District, so just south of uh South of Ladysmith, a small, small rural department up there.

And that'll be their flagship vehicle.

That will be their one of their number one.

It's it's replacing uh an early 80s truck that they bought from Prince George apparently used.

Yeah.

So it's they're quite excited.

They picked it up last week and they're they're very excited to have it.

Great.

Yeah it's great.

Excellent.

Good.

Anything else for good?

Okay.

Thank you, Paul.

Thank you.

Okay, so that's it for you.

Yeah.

Okay, so moving on to finance and admin, I don't have any chairs report.

So the first thing we have is the um council size.

There's kind of two different things here and that's I think we should talk about them as two different things.

So the first one is the council size, and then the other one that sort of has been put forward as an idea is whether or not we want to change the classification of the town.

So why don't we start with the council size?

And it was council from my recollection that we asked staff to bring this forward in our strategic planning sessions.

We we discussed it.

So Sarah.

Thank you, your worship.

I will walk you through uh a brief PowerPoint, and that is uh we've grown 50% since incorporation.

Right around the time the municipality was incorporated over 25 years ago, our population was a little less than 5,000.

Um, four years ago when the census came out, we were over 10,000.

I think we're now almost 11.

So we are we are getting bigger, bigger and bigger.

So the question was, and it did come up in the discussion was around a strategic planning opportunity, and that is council size and how to go about that.

What does that look like?

The community charter sets out how council sizes look, and section 118 talks about well, if you're a city or a district greater than 50,000, that is mayor and eight council members.

If you're a city or district less than 50,000, it's a mayor and six councillors.

If you're a town or a village, you're a mayor and four counselors.

And then the question then is begged well, how do you get these designations of city, district, town, or village?

And that one would turn to the Local Government act.

And then there you would be looking at uh section 10.

You would be a village if you're not greater than 2500, town if not if somewhere between 2500 and 5,000, city if greater than 5,000.

And so that's why when the municipality incorporated it just under 5,000, it was on the cusp but was still around the town size.

District, municipality, and that relates really to a density calculation, not including water.

So it's greater than 800 hectares and average population density, less than five people per hectare.

Despite the above, the Lieutenant Governing Council considers it to be in the public interest, you uh may be incorporated into a different classification.

So some of this can be council driven, come some of it can be driven by the province.

So part of the exercise I wanted us to look at was what do comparable size municipalities in the province have with that have seven member councils, and I've listed some before you on the screen.

So look some as small as 8,000, some up to 14 in that count.

And who's smaller that may have seven member councils throughout the province?

And there is quite a grouping, some as low as 2,000 and something, almost 3,000.

And then again, they're still smaller than the town of View Royal.

What's happening in the regional district?

Most of the municipalities have seven member councils, with the exception of Machosen at 4,700, has a five-member council.

And of course, these are 2016 census numbers I've used.

And Victoria and Saanich at nine.

What would be the impact of a larger council?

And then also what would be the impact of a status quo.

So the report considered and looked at well, more opportunities for those with full time jobs to run for office.

So that may be of more interest if the work on our external committees, and there's about 25 of them, are distributed to more people.

Broadened perspectives reflecting the community's changing population or demographics, if there are more bodies available to make decisions.

Increased opportunities for different perspectives or skill sets that could be brought to the table in decision making.

More access to elected officials and representation for residents and the business owners.

So if they can't reach one of you, perhaps they could reach the sixth or seventh person.

More candidates on the ballot to choose from for voters.

And what would be the status quo impacts?

Well, more concentrated representation because our population isn't shrinking.

It is growing.

And in fact, I believe it was between 2006 and 2016, View Royal was one of the fastest growing municipalities in the province.

And so we are we are a growing, a growing municipality.

And we would have the same financial impact regarding remuneration.

How does a municipality go about changing or increasing its council size?

There's two ways to go about it, and one of them, the second, gets into the reclassification.

And so that's why it's included in the report.

The first is the most simplest and direct route, and that is by bylaw.

Simply, you would pass a bylaw, and it would come into effect at the time of the next election.

So it wouldn't change things next week or next month, it would be October 2022, and there would be seven spots available.

Reclassification from a town to a city generates the additional council positions, and uh and that's basically you you get two things out of that, then a larger council size and a change in name or reclassification.

Uh there is a whole procedure that goes about how you reclassify, and that is that you have to get your approval of electors.

So, how do you go about that?

Well, there's two ways you do it through assent voting, which is a referendum, or the alternative approval process, which is I call that negative option billing.

Um, but that's but there's there's no obligation if we were to decide to go to seven, there's no obligation to change the name from town.

Correct.

You could you could do that by bylaw and not reclassify.

Right.

That is absolutely correct.

Okay.

Yeah, so so there the sac the second of the two options of these methodologies, so by bylaw is simply just increasing from five to seven, full stop.

And you would still be town of you royal.

The second one does both.

Right.

Just to clarify Sarah, therefore if you decide you're a city, which seems silly but to say we're a city, but um if if we say yes we are a city because we need the numbers that automatically means a seven member council?

Okay, got it.

Thank you.

Yes.

So then, as I um so it's two a several step process, then you can obtain of the approval of electors by assent voting, the referendum route, or alternative approval process, as I was saying, the negative option billing.

Either option takes a few months to go through.

AAP or the negative option billing is more cost effective if you're just looking at it as a standalone initiative.

If the approval is obtained, the next steps are simply between staff and the province to uh and take a few more months to work through because you need to get a formal change to the letters patent for the municipality through an order in council.

What are the additional impacts?

So, in addition to the things that we've already talked about for changing from five to seven, what else would happen?

Be changing from a town to a city.

This is more of a perception thing, these bullets I would suggest, reflecting the municipality's growth and development, expand and amplify the recognition of Royal's identity and profile to residents in the area, boost the municipal profile in the region, perhaps to other municipalities, and support economic development.

Time critical.

So that's a little shy of two years away, so a year and a half away then for bylaw adoption.

Though if we're going by a re uh reclassification route, the approval electors could be sought through an AAP alternative approval process now or in the next general local election by including a question on the ballot.

And we'll talk about that a little bit more in a minute.

The recommendation before you on the report this afternoon is that the committee recommend to council that a bylaw be prepared to increase council size by two.

And that is the option, one of the two methodologies, or the first methodology of the two listed.

And so when I said we talk a little bit more about that issue, they're here in the alternate recommendations, and that is that the committee recommend to council that approval of electors be sought by an AAP by reclassification from town to city.

And so that is instead of just doing it by bylaw, that we do it by reclassification.

So that would be changing the name and it triggering then the council size increase.

The second alternative recommendation could be that the committee recommend to council that uh approval of the electors be sought by the referendum question being put on the ballot in October 22 at the next general local election.

And that would then trigger it occurring not then for 2022, but that would trigger it for the then you'd have seven names in 2026.

And the third that the committee recommend to council that it be a non-binding question on that ballot, and then if there is interest at that point, that you could run an AAP after that point if there is support.

And again, it would only kick in at 2026.

And so before you again is the recommendation.

Great.

Thank you, Sarah.

Questions for staff?

Counselor Lemon.

Um, Sarah, if if we were to consider the AAP, what what costs?

And and I know this was um how we got the firewall, um, but what costs would that entail?

Uh thank you.

Through your worship, there would be advertising costs, and um that's the primary one, it would just be promotion.

We would do information in newspaper ads um there would there would be information out primarily that way and the AAP process is as I said the negative option billing and that is we would make forms available by which those who are able to vote if they are opposed to that would be able to submit those and express that opinion and then it would not proceed based on that if 10% of the those able to vote express that they don't want want it to proceed.

That's why I call it negative option billing.

If if uh that 10% express that they don't want it to proceed, then it wouldn't on that initiative.

Okay, thank you.

Councillor Kowalovich.

Hi, thank you.

So just a couple questions on process, and I've been thinking about this, and I know that I was quite inquisitive about the RCMP and our visioning for that with us hitting the 15,000 number and our price going up.

Does the community charter speak to the 15,000 number population specifically in relation to this?

Thank you.

Uh let's just go back up here.

Kim?

Go ahead.

Kim has us here.

Go ahead, Kim.

The 15,000 15,000 population number is part of the police unit agreement between the province and Canada.

And so that number has no reference in the charter or the Local Government act.

It's strictly an agreement between parties.

So the 15,000 population, is there any uh are there any numbers within the charter that specify village, town, city?

Okay.

Thank you.

Can you do can we declare ourselves a city with 10,000 people?

Um so your through your worship go ahead.

Yes, you can.

Anything over 5,000 could be under the legislation um declared a city.

Anything over 5,000 can be declared a city.

Okay, interesting.

Okay.

Uh and from reviewing the the presentation, I understand that the staff's focus is that the benefits of council was the large focus.

I'm wondering, um, I noticed there's a comment in there about uh potentially um being a catalyst for economic development as well with the declaration of being a city.

Is that something that we can elaborate on a bit, or like is there any um evidence that uh that towns that have declared themselves a city have had more interest from developers or anything like that?

And I'm and and this this is just uh I'm just wondering if because I'm trying to look at all sides of this to see if this is something I want to support.

Um so I'm just wondering your experience on that.

Uh thank you through through your worship.

I have not uh done specific research for this report on that, but my understanding through the agglomeration uh economies that um growth attracts growth, and so if there's perceived growth or perceived size, that that is attractive to some businesses.

Yeah, and and I actually I agree with that.

I think I mean if that if that's the spirit of that comment within the presentation, I I can actually support that that that notion.

I'm not not necessarily the council size quite yet, but if if our spirit is to grow the town and continue to grow it, we've all agreed that we're going to hit the 15,000 mark at some point.

or CMP.

Um, and we've been planning for that financially for other costs, i.e.

Um these are valid points to me.

The the council size itself is is another one, but um uh specific to duties, but I'll let someone else go for questions now.

On my right, counselor Rogers.

I I do think it's kind of a little important to try and separate the two.

I think the council size is one thing, and whether or not we want to rebrand ourselves as a city is is another thing personally.

So it's it's but it's in there though.

Well, I know I know it's being included in the report, but one does not hinge on the other.

We can we can do yeah, yeah, counselor rogers.

Councillor Rogers?

Yeah, I agree.

It's it's two separate things, two separate things that has the you know each of them has uh significant implications.

Um but you know the uh one of the one of the things I was hoping for is more definitive costs, because there are costs.

And um, you know, there was uh a you know almost like a bottom line, um, but what are they?

You know, the uh the renovations, it's not just renovations of the council chambers um uh you know for the two additional staff, you know, which I think is a always a sizable cost whenever we renovate this room or do anything in this in this building.

Um the uh the in increases and not just increases in new remuneration, it's increases in conventions, it's increases in in training, and you know, quite frankly, I think would be an increase in staff.

Because you now would have two more people that would have uh expectations of um of uh you know deliverables and and responses and response time and and so forth.

Goodness gracious, if you had two more of me, you'd be worn out.

So um it's um or suicidal, one of the two.

Or both.

My goodness, you'd have 21 initiatives.

So um, you know, I think we gotta look at um, because I know that when we were looking at the advisory committees, whether or not to have advisory committees, and one of the uh staff concerns about advisory committees is they cost too much in terms of resources and time for staff.

And I think that that's a very serious um you know consideration.

So I'm I'm not prepared to um go forward on on the um uh on this this report I'm I'm happy to receive it but um uh you know let's let's get the the facts and you know part of part of the facts and and um you know when I was discussing this with some folks in the community they were saying that I wouldn't take your job you're not earning enough.

You don't earn enough.

You say of no interest.

I mean, for me is a as a full-time uh employer or employee, um, and I'm working, um, if you want to uh increase the uh probability uh an attraction uh for for for people to run, boost the salary.

Well, that's a whole separate issue.

It is but it but I think if you you know, because the the sorry Your worship, but um, you know, when we were talking about the incentives and rationales and reasons that we would want to have increase the size because we would get uh more people that would be full time, you get a fewer, uh you get better demographics.

I think if you boost the salary, you you get um, you know, you'd be able to accomplish those uh those kind of things and and at the same time.

I think one of the other things in in terms of the population increase, yes, we've doubled, but my phone calls haven't doubled.

The workload is is um been about the same.

And I worked, you know, um on uh council and this from 2000, well, 1996 to 2010.

I didn't find it particularly onerous to to do council and uh all the works and committees that that I was on.

Now so I I think and and that's the same with Heidi, with Jerry Anderson, Ron, Damien, I mean, there's the David, there's all sorts of us that are working and we're still here.

So I don't think that that is necessarily the um uh the target to aim for.

And you know, I would be I I would be a little concerned also because we know we're trying to get people to volunteer for the fire department and and that's always a struggle.

Um and if we're if we're gonna reach that particular number where we're dubbing in population, we're also doubling in demands for our protective services, for police and for fire.

And I would much rather put these funds for personnel and these than in politicians.

So you know so so, on one hand you're arguing that we need to pay more, but on the other hand, you're arguing that we shouldn't pay anything.

So I having a little bit of difficulty personally following your train of thought, but obviously you would like more information from staff on the what the ongoing costs would be.

Mm-hmm.

And yes, and and the ongoing costs, and and um part of that, your worship, um, when we were considering this the city size, town size, there's all the other costs of of branding you know we've got a lot of science to change and and uh you know okay well let's let let's stay on the council size at the moment so anima did you you had your hand up at some point thank you your worship i was i wanted to point out that at this point we um were we looking at at council giving us some feedback in terms of the concept the principal yeah staff would be happy to provide a report detailing potential costs but at this point if the council has no appetite and and it's worth remembering that it was council that asked staff to prepare this.

And I would also really encourage us all to think bigger picture and for the governance of the town as the town grows, would more diversity of opinion be a benefit to the town.

But at any rate, Councillor Mattson.

So I I agree with kind of John's point.

I mean last few elections we've always been competent people running who didn't get elected.

There's been good people running.

Um so it's not like we're short of people interested in the position.

So I'm not gonna get need to do that more people, I guess that there's been sometimes when some of the people who applied or who ran and didn't make it they're probably just as happy they they didn't because uh it it took some energy for for people to to run and to show that they actually cared about it but I don't really see a problem over the last five I mean I've done this as John like you know it this isn't like an owner's job where people are we have too much to do and we need to have other people to split it so you know that's not an issue I I don't feel um you know and so you get a diversity of opinions I mean over the years you've had different people come and go and so you always always get a different diversity of I just don't see a good reason why we'd we why we'd want to do this.

Um at least one of the main things I need to find out what is the problem?

Like, you know, I mean if we had seven members right now, people two people wouldn't be chairs of committees and he'd be upset.

So you'd have that ongoing concern of uh of just that.

Yeah.

Anyway, I just don't see none of the reasons that I've seen staff that staff provide it are reasons why I'd want to expand uh the number of counselors.

I just don't I think some of the some of them are, you know, if you had to sort of pick them, you just sort of, oh, you sort of you've you've sort of come up with things as opposed to problems that we're fixing by expanding.

So I guess one question I would ask you, I mean, if we're having the discussion, is when do we change?

Right?

I mean, do we change when we get to 15,000, 20,000?

When would you see the council changing?

When the demands on individual members of council are such that you need more people to do it.

And right now, I mean, I could ask any of you like your is your workload too great as a counselor that you don't think you can do the job and and work.

But is that all it is though?

Is it is is is a variation of bringing different I mean, look at our council for Pete's sakes, right?

I mean, where like we have one woman, we have no minority.

Um, so we have, I mean, constantly every election I'm told Christ, we're never gonna get Matson Rogers and screech off that council, so why would I bother to run?

I think there's all I mean, I think you need to look big picture.

And would more seats encourage more people to run?

And God knows we need more people, I think.

So I think I just don't think it's all about the nuts and bolts or the $15,000 a year that it might cost or $20,000 a year.

Um just and we get polarized, and so if you have more opinions, I mean, if if a small number was ideal and perfect, then why do all these jurisdictions that are smaller than us have bigger councils?

I can answer that.

Okay.

Um, in in the other jurisdictions, I can't, I'm not I you know, I don't think there's other municipalities like North Sanitzer and any CRD other than um you know the the real core ones and and Langford and and perhaps now Colwood.

Um, you know, that um but the the other municipalities like well, Sydney, I guess that's they've got the numbers, but the other small communities that that are listed here is because they're total, they're complete.

When you look at Parksville, that is they've got all their businesses and and they got the businesses and the industrial, and they're not sharing with any other municipality.

They're not sharing with they don't have a CRD that's taking on a lot of their functions.

They've got absolutely everything, sewer, water, everything that the CRD.

They have a regional district, yeah.

But you know, they're they're not, they're not having to, or they have a lot more challenges, um, you know, and hence I think the need.

I don't think View Oil has the challenges.

You know, in terms of, you know, if we you know, if we want to double for workload, frankly, I think the city of Victoria should go to um you know 13, because they've got a lot more workload.

The demands on those counselors with the number of emails they get incessantly on on issues, uh it's um I think that's with, and then Senate's probably is the same boat.

So I think they're far more justified in terms of the workload and in terms of the um uh diversity.

Anybody, everybody can run for office, and if they feel the public, our public feels that it is time to boot out the long standing counselors, then they do so.

I don't think that's actually true.

I mean that, and I mean I don't want to get into a chit chat debate about this, but the but the stats are overwhelming that incumbents get re-elected.

So for the typical Joe Blow who might think he wants to run for council, he looks at it, sums up his odds, and thin, am I gonna bother?

I I don't agree that having the having more seats to me would encourage more people to run.

Anyhow, counselor Kwalovich.

Sarah, how many, and that by the way, thank you for who having put this up on there.

This is helpful.

And this means basically it's at the discretion of the town, right?

If at the for categorization in someone, right?

Uh right now it is.

The province could actually unilaterally do whatever it chooses to do as well.

Yes.

Okay.

Uh one thing I forgot to ask was did you come across any municipalities other than Machosen?

Because it looked like you were on the island for that one.

But how many municipalities similar to us within the province have five?

Oh.

Are we the minority in that or I would think so, yes.

Okay.

That's something I uh I'd be interested in looking at.

Yeah.

Uh and the other thing, actually, just more of a comment, but um getting a little bit enlightened here while I'm listening to all of my uh well educated and experienced colleagues.

Um but this talk about the spirit, and I I I admit I was getting a little focused on workload as well in my mind.

Although I I do think that the spirit of the council increase, whatever decision we make, it it actually should be focused on choices and diversity as well, um, for what it's worth.

So um that's a point taken by me.

Yeah.

So what if if we had had two more members last election, we would have two more two more males on the election, two more males elected.

Well, sure.

And if the snow fell tomorrow, it might be icy and the you know, good.

No, I mean the last two guys, the last the last election, the people with the highest move.

But in the by-election where Damien was elected, we could have easily had two more women on council because more women ran.

And the women did anyhow.

I I don't know how you can argue that if there's the chances of increasing the diversity of council, you know, we're not we're unlikely, I would hope, to end up with seven white males up here.

It's possible.

Um so anyhow, I I would kind of like this to go to the community development advisory committee, but I don't want it all mangled up with whether we should be a city or a town, because I personally don't think from my colleagues, with the exception of Damien, that we have any desire to become the city of V Royal.

Well, I mean, am I right about that?

That's well, no, not with me.

No, no, I know for me, I don't think.

Or or or if we take both issues to them, it should be div severed so that they don't feel that we have to.

But but I would be curious as to what the community development advisory committee would think about it.

And and on not on the basis of, you know, whether whether there's um I mean, I've got to tell you, as as as someone whose job it is to decide who's gonna do the various out it I mean, I'm on the crest board because Damien can't do daytime meetings.

Um right, I mean the yeah, good the crest, the radio telecommunications.

I don't particularly want to be there, but it's it's not as easy as you think to, you know, the library board meetings are are our lunchtime meetings always, so it has to be someone who can do those.

Um so it's I don't think it is as easy as you think when you look at all the different things.

Counselor Rogers for a long time had a hugely disportion disproportionate numbers of them.

Um, as the mayor, when you're appointing people to committees and outposts, you have to be able to have confidence that they're going to attend and be there and represent the town well.

Um, so it's not it's not a slam dunk that that that's always easy.

So that's another point.

But is there interest in from the rest of committee of seeing it go to the advisory committee?

Certainly.

Just to the one, obviously.

Certainly, and and we're obviously would like to get an idea of how many councils are our size in the province.

With similar and and maybe just a better projection of what the annual cost might be.

Council Lemon.

And I just an aside, um, apart from the main main issue, I I think it's um, you know, unfortunately, you know, we're we're in the time we're in, but we won't be in it forever.

And you know, when we when when we ask for this report, um the world was healthy, and it will be again.

And and you know, some of the the constraints and issues and and worry that we might be feeling now, presumably won't always be the case for VR.

Right.

No, well that's true enough, too.

Well, who knows, right?

So you I've heard that.

And and that's another good point, too, in terms of succession planning.

You know, with with a bigger council, you may get more of a mix of new members who are crucial and older members who are also crucial.

Counselor Rogers.

Yeah, we could pay for alumni counselors.

I'm just joking.

So um I guess one of one of the things, and yes, I really agree with the going to the advisory committees because one of the things in when we did the satisfaction survey, I don't recall uh the public screaming that we need to have more more members of council.

I don't think we asked.

Let's ask.

Well, you know, I think that's a really good idea.

Maybe we should ask and and put a a survey question out to folks.

I think one of the other things too is that we've seen uh in in examples throughout the um um the region and municipalities is that you have seven, and you got a really good chance of getting in by acclimation.

So there there is you got two more, and you certainly got the five that are that are hanging around.

So um, you know, consider that uh those implications.

Um but um yeah, I I would definitely want to hear more information and and let's get that additional information before we uh take it to the advisory committees if um if we're gonna do that.

I'd I would like it actually just to go to the advisory committee on the on the principles of whether or not we should go to seven.

I don't think the advisory committees need to get into whether or not thirty thousand dollars a year is that that's our decision.

Um and I wasn't thinking advisory committees, I was just thinking the community development advisory committee.

Yeah.

Okay.

So does anyone else have any last-minute thoughts they'd like to chime in?

I think Sarah's got a pretty good idea of yeah.

Okay, so we just need a motion to receive the report.

Okay.

All in favor, opposed, that's carried.

Thank you, Sarah.

Do we need a motion to send it to the advisory?

I don't think so.

I think Sarah can make that happen.

Yeah.

Um, so next we have council initiatives and staff have made some some notes here starting on our page three.

So the connectivity plan is actually in the budget.

I think it came out of our strategic plan, and that was why I cut off Jane Devonshire early, because it's it's didn't need to be on this list.

I think sorry, Jamie said I didn't go with the time when I find that.

So I'm at least we see that number two.

So also right.

Okay, so the first one I guess to discuss is the idea of putting aside funds at this point in time for a fish foraging beach on Portage Inlet.

Councillor Rogers.

Yes.

So um I'm the details go Oh, Mike.

Thank you.

Mine is on.

Um I I put this on as a uh council initiative, but I do know that um Ian Bruce of uh Peninsula Streams has been working on this and and has already established a pilot um uh test, if you like, uh down um along uh near Hospital Creek of Portage Inlet.

Yeah.

Go ahead.

Yeah, thank you.

So I've I've put it in as a placeholder uh pending um Mr.

Bruce's uh presentation.

So um I would just like that.

Um so he's gonna apply for a grant, is he?

Is that what you're saying?

Yes, that's right.

Okay.

Yeah.

So I don't think then that we need to worry about taking it forward as a council initiative.

We'll just wait for his grant application, right?

I think that's reasonable.

Yeah.

Okay.

Okay.

Yeah.

And uh number four, of course, we're already um have made a council motion right for that, so we're good there.

And I see number five is already included in the budget.

Yeah, I think we discussed that last year.

I I remember speaking about it.

Okay.

And uh number six is the uh the Chilco Road/Six Mile Park uh dog off leash area.

Um I know that uh we I think it was about June that we had talked about that, and at the time um there was still the COVID uh issues, and uh council hadn't um established the um uh you know the ways and means of uh holding council meetings.

And um, but yeah, at the same time, after that we were able to have open uh sessions for public to uh come and speak to V Well Park and we have uh abilities for advisory committees to be back in session so i would ask that uh we make this a an initiative it's something that the the community is very interested in in having so I'd ask that be added and that that staff investigate the cost.

Well I think staff are working on bringing back a report on that.

I don't see how we can assign costs in budget at the moment to but it's um I I would uh ask that we make it uh an initiative pending and this is the whole thing so that um staff would be um bringing back um cost estimates on on this and but how can they bring back cost estimates when they haven't even reported back to us yet on what the options are, and we haven't done any of the community work to find out that.

Yeah, but I I think that we can um put a placeholder on this for um you know some amount, and um I think uh staff could give a a reasonable estimate of that, and um and then we conduct the surveys.

But I just wanted to uh you know be able to accomplish this.

So other counselors, I need your help on this.

I don't see how you put something if it is in the work.

Staff maybe can tell us if if there's a report coming coming soon.

Sarah, do you know anything about the status of it?

I'm just asking Elena what the last motion was on that.

Well, the last motion was referring it back to status.

But we were we were very aware of the fact that it was COVID and also very aware of the fact that there's far from unanimity in Chilco about what they want to see happen.

The meeting was about 5050 yes pretty and so we we wanted to outline some sort of a process yes of and so that's what we're waiting to come back.

Councillor Matson I guess from from my perspective we need to know where we'd actually want to park a an off-leash dog park and whether we want to chop up Chilco Park and and if we the so before we can figure out what the costs are, you know, like the decision came back.

No, what we want to do is cut Chilco Park in half and and and what fence it in, then you can get a cost on it.

But until we sort of decide what we're going to do, I might be premature.

Maybe staff's gonna come back with other places that a dog park can be more appropriate than Chilco Park.

I I just don't know, but I think we should give them an opportunity to come back to us with some recommendations, knowing that we think a dog off-leash dog park in that area would be a good thing, but where is another matter.

Councillor Lemmon.

Yeah, I concur.

I concur with um Councillor Matson.

Um it seemed seems to me initially we were talking solely about Chilco Park, and um and Sarah's right.

It was it seemed to be 5050.

So yeah, I'm I suggest that we let staff do the work, bring us back a report, and then we go from there.

Councillor Koalovich, did you have any thoughts on this one?

My understanding was I was uh just waiting for an update from staff.

Yeah.

Councillor Rogers.

Yes.

Thank you.

Um one of the problems is that um back in June staff tabled it.

Staff don't table things.

Council tables.

It was we um it's we did not staff were saying that they would not engage with the public because of COVID.

Right.

So that's why we're waiting for staff to come back to us now that things are, you know, although things are far from normal.

I know that staff are aware of it.

And you know, and whether or not this is a budget priority when you look in the capital projects of what we've canceled that are important in-house initiatives and all sorts of things, whether or not money for this would be a priority regardless of that, I think is another question.

But regardless, this is an ongoing issue that's in the works, and and I know that staff are going to bring something back on how we can engage the community out there.

Yeah.

I I guess my concern is you worship that uh we've we've done um back in June we didn't have the advisory committees.

Um there was um we didn't have but but yet we did have an outreach in V Rowell Park for the public consultation.

We did have a survey about what improvements on a particular issue for VR Park.

For for an ongoing plan that council had been working on for over two years.

That's right.

But I think that here here's a situation where you know we've we've got a centralized area for for dog walkers, which is very convenient, but I think um we also have a community that that would also like to have that amen energy.

And um, I would just simply encourage the staff move quickly to um reach out to the public and and come to a solution um and a report to staff uh to council.

So thank you, Councillor Rogers.

So four members of council are comfortable with the process, and we realize the challenges and limitations that this year has put up, and we realize that any issues have to be prioritized.

Um, and that is what staff is working on.

And I know they will bring this back to us, and at that point, we can decide whether or not or how we're going to proceed with it.

So thank you.

And then the act can sidewalk you have a whole group coming tonight.

I must, you know, just I don't have any problem with with getting an estimate from staff.

I certainly have a problem with actually putting it in the budget at this point, but I don't have any problem with getting it an estimate from staff.

But I have to say, I mean, I find your number one priority is a connected of connectivity plan assessment.

And then you've decided that this one is the number one priority without us even getting the assessment completed, which for me doesn't personally make any sense.

Go ahead.

Thank you.

Um I didn't when I listed the uh the initiatives, I didn't list them in order of priority.

Um, but this is um, as we've already heard from from residents of that area, that a a sidewalk from on Atkins is a critical safety issue.

And uh we've already seen their presentation um before us.

And uh with their petition, which is 70 percent of the neighborhood yeah you may not have been listening to me counselor rogers i said i have no problem with that i don't understand the why you are asking for a connectivity plan if you're not prepared to see that plan and see what priorities that that plan puts.

Yes and and there may well be many other areas in our town that are considered more in dire need of a sidewalk than than Atkins.

It's certainly possible.

Yes Yorship I understand what you're saying however um I'm sure we'll be hearing from the the public that um uh to wait for a connectivity plan uh who knows how long that will be um and um so to get a uh an initiative to have that design, because it will be complex in terms of road widths and and so forth.

It's a complex stretch.

So and I I think we'll hear from the public that you know they do want us to invest in design strategy in this fiscal year.

Thank you.

So, counsel, are you prepared to support the idea of staff bringing forward cost estimates for this in the budget process?

For Atkins?

Yeah.

I am.

Okay.

I am.

Counselor Qualitage.

Yeah, I am.

I I mean I'm I support any cost estimates for any sidewalks that will increase safety.

Of course, that's quite a it's an easy answer, but I I also want them to carry on with their connectivity study and prioritize and report back to us so that we can make an informed decision, keep worship.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Similar to to Damien, certainly I think this is important.

This is important to do.

How important it is in relation to other which you take priority, I'm not sure.

And I guess until some something comes back to us sort of with a list of projects.

And I guess the other aspect is, you know, um, you know, when when we could afford to do it, depending on where it is in the priority list.

Yeah.

No, absolutely.

So number seven, then staff, there is a desire to get an idea of cost estimates.

Yeah for for what that no, there's not a desire right now to get design, thank you.

There's a desire to get cost estimates.

So with that, we just need a motion to receive that.

That's what we've clearly heard.

So moved.

Second.

All in favor.

Opposed.

That's carried.

So we've got the capital project update.

Move receipt.

Second.

Okay.

Any questions, comments?

Just that uh sorry, just in terms of comments, one of the reasons to it's important to prioritize to just sort of list of looking at the list of things that were deferred on this year's capital project, you know, adding more to it's just you know, we still have to re prioritize everything before we we move forward on on these yeah absolutely I mean even with getting that check from the province and it's and it's important to note well we're gonna talk about that soon but I mean our casino I mean who knows but there's there's no way that it's opening anytime soon and even when it does open the the decrease in revenue or before it gets back up to where it was before is going to be a considerable period of time.

So I mean we're gonna be facing real budgetary pressures um you know and and obviously that's going to be a a major um part of what any sidewalks or capital projects that that we may do at all.

You were speaking to uh the uh capital project.

And in terms of this list, yes, I understand that we have to uh uh postpone so much of these because of the uh the shortfall in casino revenue due to COVID.

However, sorry, however, um you know I think um when um other important uh things come to light um that we hadn't considered before, such as public safety uh for residents on Afkins, I think that's a good idea.

Councillor Rogers.

Yeah, Mike is on.

Um so I think in that sense, um I I think, yeah, we it's it's valid to be able to reassess when it comes time to uh our our budget considerations and re-evaluate the uh the priorities and importance, um safety over whatever else.

So did you only just find out, Councilor Rogers, in the last couple of weeks that we needed a sidewalk on Atkins Road?

I mean, it seems to all of a sudden be a number one pressing issue.

It's been like that for as long as I've been on council.

And I can think of many other roads throughout the town that don't have sidewalks.

Um I daily watch people struggle a lot, Watkiss Way in the dark on a busy road coming from Eagle Creek that don't have a sidewalk.

So I think it's maybe a little unfair to all of a sudden suggest that because council has concerns about our financial situation that we are not giving.

We all realize it would be wonderful to have a sidewalk on Atkins.

I just uh but budget is budget and the amount of money that's available for it's reality.

I don't think any of us would say that it isn't.

Yeah, sorry, in answer to your question, your worship.

Um no, I didn't just find out about this in uh two weeks ago.

It it is something that um uh the residents um have drawn to my attention.

And um I don't know if anyone else has spoken to uh to the residents there, but um, you know, they are uh obviously concerned for their safety.

And Councilor Rogers, you've made that point, and we all understand it.

And you know, the if I think they would be happy to have the the width of um um uh asphalt that is on Watkins Way today.

Thank you.

Go ahead.

Yes, uh I have met with the residents as well, and I know that it's a uh an area they would like improved, and I also acknowledge there are other areas, and I still stand by my comment.

I need to let I need to let um the process play out, uh Council Rogers, and I have to respect staff's expertise and decision making in regards to prioritization of of locations, and then when that comes to us, then we can uh we can round table that if necessary.

Yeah, thank you.

Okay, I didn't call the question.

All in favor?

Opposed, that's carried.

So next we have the financial policies to do with the community amenity contributions.

Don, were you going to speak to that?

I very briefly, your worship.

Each year, as a part of the financial planning process, we do think about the policies and practices that guide the development of the financial plan.

And that's what this is about before you today.

Provides an opportunity for updates to our policies or practices, maybe as a result of changes in other policies, like the one that is proposed in front of you today regarding the community amenity contributions, or perhaps as directed by council if they if council is aware of some area that they would like to see some policies changed.

And I have listed um, you know, the policies and practices that do influence the budget development process for your convenience and for your review.

Um this year's as uh you are aware, we are proposing to update the reserves and surplus policy, and this is simply to accommodate the community amenity contributions policy that was approved in 2019.

It it does accommodate the flexibility that's in the CAC policy so that community amenities uh provided in cash may be either designated for a specific purpose or contributed to a reserve for future determination, and that just required a little bit of an adjustment to the reserves and surplus policy to accommodate that.

That's that's all I have for you.

Okay, thank you.

Questions, Councillor Mattson?

Mike?

Right, double sorry.

In the uh scenarios one and two, I mean I guess I'd like our policy to give us as much latitude to put the money where where we want and use it for the purpose, whatever purpose we want, as opposed to fixing it on specific, you know.

Well, I think that's basically what staff is suggesting, right?

That it's cash amenity provided is so it'd be in a reserve fund with with little restriction.

Isn't that right, Don?

That it would be councils.

Exactly, your worship, yes.

But but it does bring forward the bigger question, and I meant to go back and look at our community amenity policy.

So the funds that we're gonna be receiving in the next short term are all in Northview Royal, the projects.

And there's no doubt over the years that you know Northview Royal, the Southview Royal has seen most of community amenities.

So is there anything in our policy that would suggest that preference or priority should be given to the neighborhood surrounding where the new development is happening?

Your worship, I'm not aware of anything specific to that.

However, um, because the policy says that when uh my understanding of it at least is that when community amenity contributions are received, they are governed by an agreement between, you know, between council and the developer such that council could ask for those restrictions to be put into writing, and that enables staff to kind of put it aside for a little bit of a restriction, even if it's as broad as a general area.

Together the community amenity uh contribution policy in combination with what's being proposed for the amendments to the reserves and surplus policy would allow council either to have no restrictions for those funds or any level of a restriction as determined by an agreement.

Okay.

Counselor.

Um I'll go to Kim.

Kim.

Thank you, your worship.

Staff will be looking at the uh community amenity policy to address those types of issues.

Okay, thank you.

Councillor Mattson.

So again, I like the idea of it not having any sort of requirements uh on the funds on paper that sort of force us to do it, but when we actually come to uh the decision in terms of the for that specific project, we can then make we can make a determination whether they should be earmarked for something particular.

Yeah, I think that's what staff is saying, that it would be a reserved setup that you're you're worried that our hands will be slapped and we'll be told we can't use that money for this.

Yeah.

Well, yeah.

But if we are talking about a project and we decide we're going to use the funds for this, then that's a decision we've made.

I just hate to say, oh no, you can't use it.

Like, for example, we can't use it to fix Atkins because it's earmarked for this project.

Right.

You know, not that that's the project I was thinking of, but just as an example.

That wouldn't go over well given that a whole lot of new Northview Royal doesn't have sidewalks.

Counselor Rogers.

Yes, indeed.

Um I I um I guess the question to staff is um I'm still not clear where um any monies that might be CACs that we might get in 2021, where does it go?

So do we have a CAC account?

What what did is there I couldn't understand?

Well that's what this is for is to add on your page 13, a community amenity contribution reserve fund.

Oh okay.

Pardon me, I missed that.

Yeah, all right, thank you.

So that that's helpful.

And yes, I uh I would appreciate and and understand the the idea that um when a development comes in, something as large as Eagle's Nest or Number Nine Erskine, that um the the um accommodations to to the local residents um would probably need the additional lift of uh the community amenity uh contributions.

So that that does make um logical sense.

On my left.

Observing.

Okay.

I mean, basically, all we're being as as CAO Anima said, the staff will look at the policy.

Um, but all we're doing right now is just recommending that we this reserve is set up, basically.

So if everyone's comfortable with that, we move the recommendation.

Thank you.

Second seconded by Councillor Kralovich, moved by Councillor Rogers.

All in favor, opposed, that's carried.