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Committee of the Whole

Tuesday, May 10, 2022
Council
AgendaMinutesVideo
Updated 2 weeks ago
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Meeting Overview

The Committee of the Whole meeting covered updates from Protective Services, Finance, and Planning. Key discussions included the ongoing challenges of transient camping, leading to a decision to amend the Parks and Public Places Bylaw to gain enforcement tools. The Committee also reviewed two development applications: an environmental development permit for slope stabilization at 53 Knollwood Road, and a temporary use permit for parking at 2 Hospital Way related to the nearby 9 Erskine Lane development. Following a presentation on the Draft Official Community Plan, the Committee scheduled a dedicated workshop for May 31, 2022, to conduct a detailed review of the document.

Key Decisions

  • Council received the monthly RCMP activity report.
  • The public safety report detailing fire and bylaw activities for March and April 2022 was received by Council.
  • The report recommending amendments to the Parks Bylaw to address homelessness and camping was received, with direction given to staff for further revisions.
  • The report updating the Municipal Ticket Information Bylaw was received.
  • The April 2022 Building Department Report was received.
19
Agenda Items
17/18
Motions Passed
2h 53m
Duration
20
Participants

Transcript

1839 segments
Gery Lemon0:00

Good afternoon, everyone, and uh call this meet uh committee of the whole meeting of May 10th to order.

Gery Lemon0:09

And we recognize the Lakwungan speaking people known today as the Esquimalt Nation and Songhees Nation, and that their historic connections to these lands continues to this day.

Gery Lemon0:19

This afternoon we will hear from the public during the public participation portion of the agenda.

Gery Lemon0:24

And this evening we will hear from the public during the public participation and question period portions of the agenda.

Gery Lemon0:31

If you wish to provide comments by telephone, call 778-402-9227.

Gery Lemon0:40

Those numbers are on your screen right now.

Gery Lemon0:43

And when prompted, enter conference ID 665 458 505 pound.

Gery Lemon0:52

And at the appropriate time on the agenda, I will announce the last four digits of your phone number, ask you to mute the live webcast to avoid feedback, ask you to not use speaker phone to ensure sound quality, and ask that you unmute yourself by pressing star six.

Gery Lemon1:09

And then to begin, you would indicate your name and address for the record.

Gery Lemon1:12

Speakers will have five minutes each to speak during public participation and two minutes to ask a question during question period.

Gery Lemon1:20

And you will be timed.

Gery Lemon1:21

This meeting will be recorded by participating in this webcast.

Gery Lemon1:25

You're consenting to being recorded, and the recording will be available on the town's website for future access.

Gery Lemon1:33

Could you say that again, please?

Gery Lemon1:38

So can we have a motion to approve the agenda, please?

Gery Lemon1:43

So moved.

Gery Lemon1:44

Second.

Gery Lemon1:44

Motion carried.

Gery Lemon1:44

All those in favor.

Gery Lemon1:47

And the minutes of the previous meeting, motion to adopt committee of the whole meeting April 12th.

Gery Lemon1:54

All those in favor?

Gery Lemon1:55

Yeah.

Gery Lemon1:57

So carried.

Gery Lemon2:06

Staff, do we have anyone on the call?

Gery Lemon2:10

We have no one in the room.

T. Preston2:12

Your worship, we have no callers at this time.

Gery Lemon2:14

Thank you very much.

Gery Lemon2:16

Um, and uh I guess it comes to protective services and community services.

Gery Lemon2:24

Um, I'm acting mayor this evening.

Gery Lemon2:26

I should, or this afternoon, I should just point out that um Mayor Screech is out of the room keeping his his virus to himself, but and I hope that this meeting runs in such a way that he doesn't feel a need to burst in here.

Gery Lemon2:41

Um so uh here we go.

Gery Lemon2:48

West Shore RCMP, Superintendent Kristen.

Gery Lemon2:53

Thank you.

Gery Lemon2:55

Lovely to see you.

T. Preston2:56

Madam Mayor.

T. Preston2:57

Council.

T. Preston2:58

Uh thanks again for having me as always, um, I think this uh this month here I'm just gonna give you an overview of some of the calls for service.

T. Preston3:05

We had 241 calls for service in View Royal the last month.

T. Preston3:08

Um here's a sampling of some of the calls throughout April.

T. Preston3:12

April 1st, uh, we received a youth was reported sexually assaulted by an adult co-worker at a rental unit in View Royal.

T. Preston3:14

Uh statement was obtained.

T. Preston3:19

Suspect's been arrested and released on an undertaking with conditions to have no contact with that individual.

T. Preston3:23

On the second, a male was reported intoxicated in the area in Watkins Avenue.

T. Preston3:26

An officer attended and located the male laying down part way on the road.

T. Preston3:30

He was arrested uh for intoxicated in a public place.

T. Preston3:32

He was held in the cells until sober and issued a violation ticket upon release.

T. Preston3:37

April 6th, the vehicle was reported uh driving erratically in the 1600 block of Island Highway.

T. Preston3:41

An officer located the vehicle near Helmcken and pulled it over.

T. Preston3:44

The driver was identified and it was determined he was a prohibited driver.

T. Preston3:47

Vehicle was impounded.

T. Preston3:48

The driver was arrested, released on an appearance known as record.

T. Preston3:51

April 10th, a report of a break and enter on a Giles.

T. Preston3:54

Is it Giles Street?

T. Preston3:55

Sorry?

T. Preston3:56

Giles uh Street, thanks.

T. Preston3:57

Um suspect broke into a garage and sold various tools.

T. Preston4:00

The tools were posted on Facebook Marketplace.

T. Preston4:02

So the victim believes it was a targeted crime.

T. Preston4:05

Estimated $5,000.

T. Preston4:06

Unfortunately, we did process the scene with our FIS unit.

T. Preston4:12

We have no leads at this time here.

T. Preston4:14

On April 15th, a concerned uh mother called about her youth son who had sent nude photos.

T. Preston4:20

This is one of the ones that I've been telling you more and more.

T. Preston4:23

We try to get the messaging out.

T. Preston4:25

This individual thought that uh he was sending his uh his photos to an individual who was posing as a 15-year-old girl.

T. Preston4:32

The suspect was now demanding money and extorting this young male who had sent nude photos.

T. Preston4:38

Um we see this time and time and time again, and it's uh it's tragic.

T. Preston4:42

It leads to a lot of depression and uh other significant issues by the youth.

T. Preston4:48

Um, so we keep putting the message out and hopefully uh it'll get through.

T. Preston4:53

Um April 22nd, uh there was a victim of a fraud.

T. Preston4:56

Uh Giro called a report.

T. Preston4:58

She received a call from Amazon talking about her account being in poor standing.

T. Preston5:01

The suspect was advised that she would have to attend Best Buy and purchase $2,000 in gift cards, uh, which unfortunately she did.

T. Preston5:07

Uh she then provided the serial number and the information to give cards to the suspect on the phone, and that file is still under investigation.

T. Preston5:14

Um April 25th, VGH uh reported a male had arrived uh at the hospital with a single stab wound in his back.

T. Preston5:22

Uh an officer attended and began the investigation.

T. Preston5:24

The victim was not very forthcoming.

T. Preston5:27

Um, we did glean from the investigation that the offense likely occurred in Victoria, and we uh work in partnership.

T. Preston5:29

We we transferred the file over to Victoria for further investigation.

T. Preston5:38

Uh April 25th, um, a resident of URL called to report she was in possession of an M305 semi-auto act rifle, which is now prohibited under the new uh regulations, and she simply just wanted to turn it over to us so we were able to uh retrieve that and we'll um destroy it appropriately.

T. Preston5:54

As far as traffic uh section, we had uh 23 warnings, 19 tickets uh issued in your area uh for the five month, three impaired uh by alcohol, three driving while disqualified or prohibited, and six collisions.

T. Preston6:13

So just kind of an overview.

T. Preston6:15

I like uh like kind of switching it up every so often and just kind of giving you instead of uh strictly statistical data, give you kind of an overview.

T. Preston6:23

Any questions?

Gery Lemon6:24

Any questions?

John Rogers6:26

Councillor Mattz.

John Rogers6:27

Go ahead, first time okay.

John Rogers6:29

Uh just want to follow up with the um uh minutes of the last committee of the whole, and I I don't know if it um regarded or not, but um requested that uh you provide the mayor and and uh CAO with the requested staffing numbers per capita to ensure that um uh all partners are providing with the same personnel, the same understanding.

John Rogers6:49

You know, you know.

T. Preston6:51

Yes.

T. Preston6:52

I don't have that with me, but um I will get that to the CAO.

T. Preston6:57

Um essentially what we're trying to achieve is um a cop to pop ratio.

T. Preston7:02

We I think we talked about this last time, did we not?

T. Preston7:05

About the maintaining so it's very consistent across the board that everybody's paying their fair share.

T. Preston7:11

And um Lankford obviously their cop to pop ratio um was the only one that's different from the other communities just because of the the large volume of commercial and and greater amounts of files.

T. Preston7:21

When we actually work the numbers of one to eight seventy-five and one to seven fifty, um they actually work out very, very within you know a couple percent every year of uh calls for service versus uh contributions.

T. Preston7:36

So, you know, we've able we've been able to kind of navigate the partnership that way.

T. Preston7:42

Um it seems if we can maintain that um and get everybody to buy in with that i think we run the risk of not fracturing a relationship by everybody pointing the finger at each other saying you don't pay enough and you pay obviously it's gonna vary every year there is yeah there's no way to you're gonna have more files this year maybe you'll have less files next year and we've got to have some sort of be nimble to some degree but it uh you know in terms of fairness I think that's dialed in.

John Rogers8:10

And so if I recall then our our ratio um per capita for on each officer is 750?

T. Preston8:16

875.

John Rogers8:16

875.

T. Preston8:17

So one one police officer for one uh every 875.

T. Preston8:21

Um and you guys are on track and good.

T. Preston8:24

Um and everybody seems to be uh it's actually fantastic when you see um you know the ongoing disputes in other municipalities about policing.

T. Preston8:35

Um this is you know as long as we can get everybody to sign off and and uh ratify this, I think we will be literally the model um model police agency uh certainly in one of them in British Columbia, if not the the country.

John Rogers8:50

Uh and also with my last question the um interesting the dis the discussion um from the province about uh considering a regional police force for the CRD.

John Rogers9:01

Any thoughts of that?

T. Preston9:03

That's a political decision and not uh not for me to comment.

T. Preston9:06

Yeah.

Speaker_Unknown9:07

Okay.

T. Preston9:08

You're right.

Gery Lemon9:09

Counselor, thank you.

Gery Lemon9:10

No, that's right.

Gery Lemon9:11

Ron, you asked your question, right?

Gery Lemon9:13

No.

Gery Lemon9:14

Oh, I'm sorry.

Gery Lemon9:16

So how did that happen?

Ron Mattson9:19

I know when we get older, sometimes in two or three minutes we forget what's asked.

Ron Mattson9:23

Ask your question.

Ron Mattson9:25

Yeah, I mean one of the things I think I mentioned you before, the Prime Minister in his speech had mentioned one of the worst things we have to work, biggest things we have to worry about are these right-wing radical groups, et cetera, et cetera.

Ron Mattson9:35

And you said you're gonna come back with uh to find out what what he was actually referring to and and how that relates to BC and Yeah, I've got to be honest, uh counselor.

T. Preston9:47

I've forgotten that and I uh yeah, so the question again do you have a missed call?

T. Preston9:53

Um yeah, exactly.

T. Preston9:54

Hey.

T. Preston9:55

Um so the question again, though?

Ron Mattson9:57

Uh the again, something the prime minister said, you know, right wing radicals or whatever the current term is for them.

Ron Mattson9:59

He said that was one of the biggest concerns we had to to worry about in in Canada.

Ron Mattson10:07

So in terms of policing and things.

Ron Mattson10:10

I'm it sounds more like it's coming from the States because I certainly don't anyways.

Ron Mattson10:16

I I just like comment on it because I don't understand Yeah, I can comment.

T. Preston10:20

I mean here I haven't seen in your right.

T. Preston10:25

I think it's uh and we see it all too often where you see you know, some of the policing and some of the societal issues, and um, we all get painted with the same brush, you know, in terms of societal problems, policing problems, all that sort of stuff.

T. Preston10:42

Uh I haven't seen any extremist groups.

T. Preston10:46

Uh I mean, they're out there.

T. Preston10:48

There is extremist groups.

T. Preston10:49

We have, you know, national security teams constantly working.

T. Preston10:53

Um, but in terms of what I think you're talking about is overt uh people that are front and center.

T. Preston10:59

Um, if that's what you're referring to.

Ron Mattson11:02

Well, that's what I was just curious.

Ron Mattson11:03

Like, you know, I don't see people putting swastikas on synagogues and all the other things that you know the I mean I'll put it if if I thought it was a concern, I'd I'd bring it up to you.

T. Preston11:13

Um, I don't see it as a concern here.

T. Preston11:15

Yes, we have chakra con convoys uh and whatever.

T. Preston11:20

I mean, you're everybody here is well versed on you know that uh particular issue, and um we haven't had significant issues, but we've had more issues with um say you know the old growth forest and people gluing themselves to the highway and uh and blocking highways, uh Ferry Creek, old growth, pipeline stuff.

T. Preston11:41

Um I mean, those are the those are the overt kind of things that we deal with uh more day to day.

Ron Mattson11:48

And the only other question you had is we have anything that we should be worried about that's coming up, anything.

T. Preston11:55

Um there's nothing that's presented itself other than growing communities.

T. Preston12:00

You have a growing community here, and so, with that, my advice is always stay in front of it.

T. Preston12:05

Um, and and I you guys have done a great job.

T. Preston12:09

If uh all the communities have I've been very pro-police, uh pro-community.

T. Preston12:14

Um, no, we're good.

T. Preston12:16

Uh, yes, we can always use more resources, but so can everybody else.

Ron Mattson12:22

I do have one more.

Ron Mattson12:23

We bikers, yeah, bike gangs, etc.

T. Preston12:26

Again, you every now and then you see somebody with uh colors on, but well, you would have saw probably close to 50 to 75 of them here last weekend.

T. Preston12:34

They were here down the the Zeke run, they call it uh for in memory of one of their fallen members uh of their club.

T. Preston12:41

And they do this, it's an annual event that they they come down from uh the ride from the Naimo, and sometimes they stay here.

T. Preston12:47

This year they came down from the Naimo, uh partied here a little bit at the clubhouse in in Langford, and then went back up to uh in the Naimo.

T. Preston12:54

And I mean, we we know that event every year, we we maintain it, we follow it.

David Screech12:58

Two years ago, we did find a handgun and some drugs uh on one individual who was arrested but uh this year my understanding is went no issues other than you'll see lots of Hell's angel colors uh in the neighborhood thanks okay mayor screech do you have any questions I don't I am here although my image is frozen for some reason check on you I think so still I don't have um any specific questions, thank you.

David Screech13:38

On on the cop or pop, I think Kim and the other CAOs were doing some work on that, and we're going to bring it back to us for um discussion and possible motions.

Gery Lemon13:49

So good, thank you.

Gery Lemon13:53

Um couple of points, well, a point from me.

Gery Lemon13:57

Um Norki, I understand is still quite active and and um your member is on it best he can be, but you know, there's it's from what I can see it's quite frequent.

Gery Lemon14:12

Um and just uh back to bikers and and the the and the political issue that you referenced.

Gery Lemon14:22

I saw a clip today, a media clip, um of a from a Victoria counselor who is a proposed candidate for mayor and is in favor of a regional force.

Gery Lemon14:38

And one of the reasons he put forth was the biker gangs that have established in Langford.

Gery Lemon14:51

And I don't know, I guess the inference was that you, you know, uh the RCMP are unable to eradicate.

Gery Lemon15:02

I don't, I you know, that's my word, um, control um, whatever, and with the pre regional um force uh presumably things might be different.

Gery Lemon15:14

I just put that out there.

T. Preston15:17

I think that's uh probably a fairly naive comment by uh whoever made that comment.

Gery Lemon15:23

There you go.

Gery Lemon15:24

Just put it there.

Gery Lemon15:24

Okay.

T. Preston15:25

We do have, by the way, we did start up a uniform gang task force here, um, which is made up of three uh fully trained ERT members who are also half their mandate is focusing on exactly that.

T. Preston15:39

Um they've done a good job so far.

Gery Lemon15:42

I believe it.

Gery Lemon15:44

Mayor Screech.

David Screech15:46

Thanks, Jerry.

David Screech15:46

I just I wonder maybe at our next committee of the whole, if we should have that um that report on our agenda for discussion, or just at least for information and for receipt, and we may want to discuss it and we may want to um send a letter to the province in support of the RCMP and our current model of sub-regional policing before it gets too far down the road.

David Screech16:12

Anyhow, I'm presupposing, but I I think we should um have that report on an agenda for us to discuss.

David Screech16:20

So maybe the next committee of the whole.

Gery Lemon16:23

That'd be grand.

Gery Lemon16:24

Good.

Gery Lemon16:25

Okay.

T. Preston16:25

Thanks.

T. Preston16:26

That support is greatly appreciated.

T. Preston16:28

Thank you very much.

Ron Mattson16:29

There you go.

Ron Mattson16:30

So then rather than sending the off to uh Innovicus for a new detachment.

Ron Mattson16:36

Yes, yes.

Ron Mattson16:38

I appreciate it.

Ron Mattson16:39

Thank you.

Gery Lemon16:40

Thank you.

Gery Lemon16:40

Thanks a lot.

Gery Lemon16:41

Good to see you.

Gery Lemon16:42

See you on a ride-along.

Ron Mattson16:43

Okay, just oh, I'll send him a note right alone.

Gery Lemon16:44

Yes, you will.

John Rogers16:55

Yeah, it's a good point.

John Rogers16:56

Now that with the COVID diminishing, ride-alongs might be possible again.

John Rogers17:00

Yeah, yeah.

Gery Lemon17:00

Well, there was no action online.

Gery Lemon17:03

There was nothing happenable at that point.

Gery Lemon17:05

Nothing.

Gery Lemon17:06

Chief Hearst.

Paul Hurst17:08

Good afternoon.

Gery Lemon17:08

Welcome.

Gery Lemon17:09

Very nice to see you.

Paul Hurst17:10

Madam Chair, members of council.

Paul Hurst17:12

Always a pleasure to be here.

Gery Lemon17:14

Good.

Paul Hurst17:16

Um you have reports.

Paul Hurst17:18

I have a few reports uh for you today.

Paul Hurst17:21

We'll start with our public safety report for the months of March and April 2022.

Paul Hurst17:30

And I'll get back to this shortly.

Paul Hurst17:32

Just one fire of note in View Royal in March, a townhouse fire on Craig Flower that was handled quickly by the day shift crews.

Paul Hurst17:43

Turned out to be a juvenile fire setter issue, which our fire prevention officer is currently managing with the family through counseling services in our juvenile fire setter intervention program.

Paul Hurst17:53

So we're seeing a um a successful resolve to that particular incident.

Paul Hurst18:00

Training continues at a feverish pace as we have several new recruits.

Paul Hurst18:05

And we're on a on a steep trajectory to get our new membership trained up in everything they need to be trained up in nowadays to function as a firefighter in the field.

Paul Hurst18:14

As usual, Troy in his emergency management program.

Paul Hurst18:32

I am pleased to uh announce, and as you've probably seen it, the area across from Adams Storage on the Trans Canada Highway has now been cleaned up.

Paul Hurst18:42

I'm more than impressed with the work that was done by the ministry in doing that.

Paul Hurst18:48

And I understand they're going to be going across the road to dismantle that bike/slash BMX park that's in the riparian area, and they'll be cleaning that area up as well.

Paul Hurst18:57

Very pleased.

Paul Hurst18:58

Uh they took out countless, countless uh 40-yard skid dumpsters of materials out of that, uh, out of that area.

Paul Hurst19:07

So that's that's nice.

Paul Hurst19:08

That opens it up and it actually looks it actually looks pretty nice in there now, and very pleased with uh the response from the ministry.

Paul Hurst19:16

Looking at uh statistically, um oh sorry, and just just one other thing of note in the uh that our bylaw officer made mention of the second paragraph there.

Paul Hurst19:27

Um Jim and I had a discussion about um him moving to a bike-based patrol system in the summer months.

Paul Hurst19:36

And uh I will send you some photos of the the bike and the outfit.

Paul Hurst19:40

Jim's been hitting the road on the bike, and it's actually working quite well going through our our parks and the goose and EN, and he's able to sort of transit through the community and quite honestly keeps the pickup truck off the road.

Paul Hurst19:52

He's not burning fuel, he's he's out on his bike, so it's serving actually a couple of purposes, and he's getting lots of positive feedback from residents because he's actually able to interact and so it's going quite well.

Paul Hurst20:03

I'm really pleased.

Paul Hurst20:04

That was his initiative, and um he uh he took that on, and I'm pleased we supported that.

Paul Hurst20:10

So if you see Jim out there hitting on his bike with his helmet and bell, um he's uh he's doing a good job.

Paul Hurst20:20

Jim is also uh doing a review of our false alarm bylaw, specifically as it pertains to Victoria General Hospital.

Paul Hurst20:26

As you know, that building is a considerable draw to police services, and it can also be a considerable draw to fire services with false alarms.

Paul Hurst20:35

We do have a false alarm bylaw.

Paul Hurst20:37

However, uh several of the false alarms that have been happening have been created by patients for one reason or another.

Paul Hurst20:44

It's not an internal problem with the building or staff mistakes.

Paul Hurst20:48

It's it's anything from smoking in the rooms to you know uh a head injury patient pulling a pole station, but there has to be a mechanism to monitor this and recover some of our costs because they they are considerable with three fire departments responding to Victoria General.

Paul Hurst21:03

So Jim is working with VHA right now to come up with a program in the city of Victoria and what Saanich do with their false alarms to the Jubilee, and I'll report back on that.

Gery Lemon21:12

Great.

Paul Hurst21:14

Um statistically wise, for the months of March and April, you'll notice in the category of structural fires for the month of March.

Paul Hurst21:26

It shows there were we responded to 16 building fires.

Paul Hurst21:30

Yet we only show the one of Uroyal.

Paul Hurst21:33

Those were structural reported structural fires or fires that were located in Colwood Langford as well.

Paul Hurst21:41

Under our automatic aid agreement, we respond to their fires, they respond to ours.

Paul Hurst21:45

We only report on our dollar loss fires, uh, but we did have several reported fires that didn't result in a dollar loss.

Paul Hurst21:52

In a one, I think it was about a three-week stretch there back in March.

Paul Hurst21:56

We had 11, 11 working building fires in the western communities between the three departments.

Paul Hurst22:01

That actually went quite well under our automatic aid plan where you know crews were on scene in four to five minutes and held the fires to the rooms of origins.

Paul Hurst22:09

These were apartment fires, townhouse fires, and single family dwellings.

Paul Hurst22:12

So there is an uptick in the Western communities.

Paul Hurst22:15

We're sitting just shy of 90,000 people now in the West Shore.

Paul Hurst22:19

Um and uh responding to close to about 4,500 emergencies a year between the three.

Paul Hurst22:26

So it's it's definitely not um, it's not like it was in 1984.

Paul Hurst22:31

It's a it's a completely different uh picture out there on the West Shore.

Paul Hurst22:35

And uh so we're we're grateful for the help we get.

Paul Hurst22:38

And I know Colwood and Langford are grateful the help that we send them.

Paul Hurst22:41

So that's my monthly report for March and April, and then we'm more than happy to answer any questions.

Ron Mattson22:47

Yeah thank you two questions.

Paul Hurst22:49

Sir um one since the the campers have uh been moved yes have you noticed any difference in terms of impact on local residences well there's a there's a there's a saying for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction you move people from one area and they're gonna move to somewhere else um one or two of those people have moved to another place in Veroyal on ministry property and the ministry is keenly interested in that new location, and they're working actively to remove um that encampment.

Paul Hurst23:24

That camp is located, and best describe it here um do you know the exit ramp for Burnside, where it's a bit of a ramp where you drive up the bridge and down the bridge is where the road is settled.

Paul Hurst23:35

Underneath that bridge, there's about 10 uh tents, and it's a large encampment under the bridge.

Paul Hurst23:42

Um, there's enough fuel load under there now that if a fire started in there, it would damage the bridge.

Paul Hurst23:47

So MOTI is working actively and it's right on the creek.

Paul Hurst23:50

Uh so they're working actively to get them out of there on their own initiative.

Paul Hurst23:54

So some of those people moved to there.

Paul Hurst23:56

This is part of a new camp.

Paul Hurst23:58

The other camp that was of interest was up on the railway tracks just past the big trestle uh above Bryden.

Paul Hurst24:06

That camp's been removed as well, and MOTI is going to go in there and have to clean clean that up as well.

Paul Hurst24:12

Um, we've seen pretty good success with voluntary compliance with people moving on.

Paul Hurst24:17

Um, you know, the work, I mean, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention the work that Jim did with uh one of the campers, one of the homeless there in the a camp across from Adam Surge.

Paul Hurst24:28

He'd been in there for probably anywhere from eight to ten years.

Paul Hurst24:31

And he's now in housing, he has medical care, he's being looked after, and and things are working out quite quite well there for him.

Paul Hurst24:38

So you're right.

Paul Hurst24:39

There it it it does move around.

Paul Hurst24:41

We haven't had any reports of upticks in crime.

Paul Hurst24:44

I would I would defer to Todd on that one.

Paul Hurst24:46

Any reductions?

Paul Hurst24:47

Sorry?

Ron Mattson24:48

Any reductions from the area that they've been displaced from?

Paul Hurst24:54

I can say that the the transient population that wanders around that area has reduced significantly.

Paul Hurst24:59

You know, those camps do attract people, and that seems to have cooled down.

Paul Hurst25:04

I know in speaking with the communications people at the transit uh project, they're quite pleased that things have been cleaned up.

Paul Hurst25:12

They did have some break and enders on their property and some sets.

Paul Hurst25:15

So uh they haven't had any since that I'm aware of.

Paul Hurst25:19

So I I I think it it's it's been a good outcome so far.

Paul Hurst25:23

We'll just see time will tell.

Ron Mattson25:25

Can you the other question I had was sort of following up on our other discussion we had before about when it comes to equipment purchases, is there any since we're doing all the mutual aid calls, etc., any sort of talk about balancing out equipment so everyone doesn't need uh absolutely the same piece of equipment?

Paul Hurst25:44

Yeah i i think you can you can take some comfort in the fact that the west shore chiefs talk about this at length we're all faced with uh aging fleets um large amounts of equipment excessive amounts equipment um for instance i believe there's three or four marine units for the entire west shore where some of the larger municipalities have one so we're working right now to streamline uh that process and eliminate some of that equipment and that'll realize savings not only for us but for the other municipalities um whether it's an engine or a ladder service vehicles.

Paul Hurst26:19

So we we are having those discussions, but that's a broader discussion that the the fire chiefs can discuss that all they want, but this would be this would be discussions at at your level and the CAO level to to sort of move those initiatives forward and they would have to be under formal agreement.

Paul Hurst26:33

But yeah we we do have those conversations we're we're very cognizant of the fact that as we work together now we're seeing you know duplication and triplications in equipment and um that that is something we we pay attention to and we're looking to streamline.

Paul Hurst26:47

Okay absolutely keep up that good work then we're trying I'll I'll trade you staff for equipment I'll get rid of three trucks for three staff how's that keep up that good work thank you.

John Rogers27:03

Uh Paul, when you talked about um uh the um uh fire attendance and uh the numbers, what was that?

John Rogers27:11

Um yes structure fires.

John Rogers27:12

Um maybe it's an idea to have two separate lines now.

John Rogers27:16

Okay.

John Rogers27:16

One one set of in view and the other that you're servicing outside.

Paul Hurst27:21

Absolutely.

Paul Hurst27:21

We do have we we do the cover that roughly, but if you don't know what you're looking for, it it can be ambiguous.

Paul Hurst27:26

There's one there's one called uh mutual aid and automatic aid response.

Paul Hurst27:31

Yeah.

Paul Hurst27:32

Um in in this particular one.

Paul Hurst27:36

I'll break it down for you next time to show you where where we're actually going.

Paul Hurst27:40

So you have a clear picture.

John Rogers27:41

Okay.

Paul Hurst27:42

Absolutely.

John Rogers27:42

Thank you.

John Rogers27:43

Uh do you know if um Langford is looking to get another fire hall?

Paul Hurst27:48

As far as I understand, no.

Paul Hurst27:51

They they right now they have a three-station model.

Paul Hurst27:54

They are currently and um they are currently working to staff their Happy Valley Hall.

Paul Hurst28:02

So they'll run like a north and a south hall, and then they've got their third hall over by Maw Miller's over by Gold Stream Park.

Paul Hurst28:09

There is no there is no movement to increase their their uh their station number.

Speaker_Unknown28:14

Okay.

John Rogers28:14

Or or let me put it another way, either another hall or more staff in each of the halls.

Paul Hurst28:19

Langford has been very robust in their in their hiring plans.

Paul Hurst28:23

Okay.

Paul Hurst28:23

They're they're keenly aware of their rapidly expanding community, as is Callwood.

Paul Hurst28:29

Um it it's a it's an interesting dilemma, and that um I think we're all going to be burdened with that in one form or another, or at one, you know, where where Langford might have to hire 10 or 20 people, uh VRL might have to hire two or three people.

Paul Hurst28:43

I think it's it's it's all relative as we move forward.

Paul Hurst28:46

And it doesn't necessarily mean based on the the size of the municipality or the demographics, the the calls for service, the requirements are still the same.

Paul Hurst28:53

It's just they are growing at a at a rapid rate.

John Rogers28:55

Okay, so they not like the RCMP, you'll have one one fire um individual um per capita.

John Rogers29:03

You know, that what we hear from the RCMP, one for eight, eight hundred and seventy-five.

Paul Hurst29:08

There are there are there are several positive initiatives that the West Shore could implement to share staffing in the fire service easily.

Speaker_Unknown29:15

Okay.

John Rogers29:16

Uh if I may, on to uh Detroit's uh good work.

John Rogers29:19

Yeah.

John Rogers29:19

Very interested that um uh I'm pleased that he's with such a uh variety of uh meetings that he does attend.

John Rogers29:26

Um the nuclear emergency response, thanks to Mr.

John Rogers29:29

Putin, I suppose.

John Rogers29:32

Um is there a CRD um wide with um our CFB as well month uh personnel?

John Rogers29:41

Is that kind of a collective arrangement?

Paul Hurst29:44

No, see the the the military is responsible for that, for that response and that control and command of that of that issue.

Paul Hurst29:52

Um it's my understanding that there are, I don't think it's any surprise that that nuclear powered vessels enter the harbor.

John Rogers30:00

Okay.

Paul Hurst30:01

That's what this is more focused on is what happens if they have an emergency on the base.

John Rogers30:06

Okay.

Paul Hurst30:07

And then I I'm pleased that they're they're involving the local municipalities at at our level.

Paul Hurst30:11

That you know, if they we get the phone call saying we have this problem, at least we have a bit of an option to react and we have an understanding of what's going on on the base.

Paul Hurst30:19

But they ultimately are in control of uh what happens on the base.

John Rogers30:23

Okay, great.

John Rogers30:25

Um so do we happen to have know how many um volunteers we have with the ESS team right now?

Paul Hurst30:32

Um texted if I texted Troy, I would know in almost instantly it's probably anywhere from 20 to 30.

Paul Hurst30:42

Okay.

Paul Hurst30:42

Between ESS radio and emergency program we have we have a a pretty significant um volunteer base there.

John Rogers30:50

Right.

John Rogers30:51

There's an ESSC container.

John Rogers30:53

Is that the one that's there on site at the uh the hall?

Paul Hurst30:55

Yes.

Paul Hurst30:56

Okay, right.

John Rogers30:56

In the upper parking lot, that's the newly installed one right um and with respect to bylaw um i noticed that the vehicle is still there at the uh theatus overflow parking um the uh bottle of service had ticketed or tagged it if you like in back in february and um so so oh sorry the the covered vehicle the covered vehicle is still there yeah okay i'll ask i'll ask jim what the what the update i know that vehicle was it was licensed and then it was broken into uh it is a resident yeah on Nursery hill.

John Rogers31:33

Yeah.

Paul Hurst31:33

Let me find out from Jim and i'll i'll send an email to counsel and let you know what the the status of that vehicle is.

John Rogers31:37

Yeah, no particulars, just kill.

Paul Hurst31:39

Absolutely.

Gery Lemon31:40

Yeah.

Paul Hurst31:40

Thank you.

Gery Lemon31:41

Good, John.

Gery Lemon31:42

Second.

Gery Lemon31:42

Fantastic.

Damian Kowalewich31:43

Happy to hear that uh bylaw officer Henley's been cycling around.

Ron Mattson31:45

Thank you.

Damian Kowalewich31:51

I was just wondering on a typical day now that he's uh riding a bike, is he interacting with uh the vulnerable population regularly?

Damian Kowalewich32:00

Uh what does a typical day look like, of course, when he's not responding to uh concerns from the community?

Paul Hurst32:06

So a typical day for bylaw is complaints are received.

Paul Hurst32:10

Um usually, you know, they're received all day.

Paul Hurst32:13

Uh any complaints that come in in the afternoon are processed first thing in the morning with clerk.

Paul Hurst32:18

They're prioritized by Jim.

Paul Hurst32:20

And then usually by mid-morning, he's out on the road dealing with it.

Paul Hurst32:26

He has several files that he um consistently manages every day.

Paul Hurst32:31

And whether that's you know, client contact or new files, he he has a routine, he has a circuit that he that he follows through on.

Paul Hurst32:41

Jim, um, when Jim was with the city, he was part of, and I I don't I don't want to get the acronym wrong, but he was part of that team that interacted with vulnerable population with the with a nurse and a cop, and and they would make contact.

Paul Hurst32:54

And I know Jim does make daily contact with some of our vulnerable population.

Paul Hurst32:59

They know who he is and he knows who they are.

Paul Hurst33:01

And he does.

Paul Hurst33:02

I mean, Jim has gone so far as to, you know, help these people with food and and money and trying to get them lined up with um the contacts that he had with he was with the city police.

Paul Hurst33:14

So in a typical day, he he will make contact with the people that he usually deals with.

Paul Hurst33:19

Um the the bike is brand new for him, probably a couple weeks.

Paul Hurst33:24

Um I'm thinking he he will have a circuit and he'll get known on his circuit when he's coming, like the ice cream man.

Paul Hurst33:31

He'll, you know, it'll be we can expect that by law is doing patrols of certain hotspot areas.

Paul Hurst33:38

Um, but I I think the the bike aspect is going to get him into places that he normally wouldn't see, whether it be the ENN trail or the Galloping Goose, which aren't our jurisdiction, but the reality is if we don't manage problems in those areas, they just migrate to to other areas.

Paul Hurst33:52

And I think driving around at a slower pace, he's gonna see things in a clear a little more clear than driving around.

Paul Hurst33:58

So he does he does have busy days.

Paul Hurst34:01

The the bylaw files numbers seem to be increasing, um, which is which is interesting.

Paul Hurst34:06

It's very cyclical.

Paul Hurst34:08

We'll see how it balances out now that people are going back to work.

Paul Hurst34:12

E-bike or bike bike?

Paul Hurst34:13

Bike bike.

Paul Hurst34:15

We talked about the e-bike.

Paul Hurst34:16

I didn't think it would be appropriate.

Paul Hurst34:17

I thought maybe he could go full bike.

Paul Hurst34:19

As a fireman to a cop, I thought, no, you can ride the bike.

Paul Hurst34:23

You don't want to give him the benefit of an e-bike.

Paul Hurst34:25

No, no.

Damian Kowalewich34:26

Thank you.

Damian Kowalewich34:27

You're welcome.

Gery Lemon34:29

Mayor Screech.

Gery Lemon34:30

Any questions?

Gery Lemon34:32

Okay, you're good.

Gery Lemon34:34

Okay, you've got can you you want to move on to parks and public places bylaw 96?

Paul Hurst34:42

Nine.

Paul Hurst34:43

Six, yes.

Paul Hurst34:44

Thank you.

Paul Hurst34:44

Uh this is a report that was compiled by our bylaw enforcement uh officer Henley.

Paul Hurst34:51

It's amendment, it is an amendment to the current parks and public spaces by law number 986.

Paul Hurst34:58

The recommendation is the report dated April 22nd, 2022 from bylaw officer enforcement titled Amendments to Parks and Public Spaces by Law 986 be received for information.

Paul Hurst35:08

The purpose of the report is to establish bylaw amendments that limit the opportunities for homeless encampments in the town of Uroyal's public parks and public spaces.

Paul Hurst35:18

The report is lengthy.

Paul Hurst35:20

Uh just a quick summary is basically the current uh parks and public spaces bylaw does not provide the necessary tools to conduct effective bylaw enforcement in municipal parks.

Paul Hurst35:29

This bylaw requires updating and streamlining to meet current physical and legislative changes.

Paul Hurst35:36

The town's parks are spaces which residents enjoy, and to ensure this enjoyment staff require enforceable bylaws that can be utilized at the appropriate level with either warnings or fines.

Paul Hurst35:47

These proposed amendments are not intended to alter the compliance-based approach that the bylaw enforcement currently does, but it will provide staff with the necessary tools in those circumstances where they have to enforce them.

Gery Lemon36:02

Sorry, I I've just Madam Chair.

Gery Lemon36:03

Yeah, thank you.

Gery Lemon36:04

Absolutely.

Gery Lemon36:05

Thank you.

Gery Lemon36:06

Um have we allowed camping in any parks to date, or is is this new because I'm I'm a bit alarmed that camping is being it is proposed to be you know allowed from seven to seven.

Paul Hurst36:23

Currently camping is it is permitted uh everywhere.

Paul Hurst36:29

You you're in you're you're able to camp anywhere.

Paul Hurst36:32

That that is the law.

Paul Hurst36:33

That that's uh that's been bantered through the courts and it's been it's been allowed.

Paul Hurst36:38

So camping in parks is permitted in the town of Uroil as it is within the CRD.

Paul Hurst36:43

However, this bylaw amendment is to control that particular behavior.

Paul Hurst36:49

So we don't run into situations where people uh stay in a park for an extended period of time.

Paul Hurst36:56

But make no mistake, people are permitted to camp in public spaces where there is no shelter available for them.

Paul Hurst36:59

Mayor Screech.

Paul Hurst37:02

That is permitted right now today.

Paul Hurst37:04

Yes.

Paul Hurst37:05

Okay.

David Screech37:07

Well, yeah, thank you.

David Screech37:09

I was going to point out what Paul said at the very end there, which I'm glad he said it.

David Screech37:15

You know, technically, there has to be no shelter beds available before people, homeless people are allowed to camp in our parks.

David Screech37:26

That was very clear in the court ruling that when there are no shelter beds available, um, so our partners in the core, you know, they've they've taken it a step further, and they don't seem to take that as a consideration in any of their work on whether or not shelter beds are in fact available.

David Screech37:47

Or so I at any rate, I'm not arguing that we need to do something about it, but I I don't like the notion that we just have to allow parking in our parks because or camping in our parks because technically there does have to be that lack of shelter space available to go side by side.

Speaker_Unknown38:05

Okay.

Gery Lemon38:06

Um, CAO Anima, you had your hand up.

Kim Anema38:09

Yeah, I just wanted to remind council that about a month ago, council did receive a report discussing the um the court cases that actually enable the homeless to have rights to camp.

Kim Anema38:20

And uh I am aware that the the ball law enforcement officer does check to make sure that there is accommodation or not uh for those homeless that have chosen to camp within V Royal.

Kim Anema38:29

Okay, thank you.

Ron Mattson38:35

Just to follow up on that particular one, under this under the proposal.

Ron Mattson38:40

Yes.

Ron Mattson38:41

Is the proposal still to only allow, even if we earmark a spot where they could cap.

Ron Mattson38:49

Is there still a prerequisite to check to see if there's any accommodation available?

Ron Mattson38:56

Absolutely.

Ron Mattson38:56

So the bylaw officer does that is the first that's the first point of contact.

Ron Mattson39:00

Okay, so just be clear on this one.

Ron Mattson39:03

Even if we approve a particular park, it's not like it's wide open for park for camping.

Ron Mattson39:10

It it's only if it's if there's no other spaces available for them, that's the place they have to go.

Ron Mattson39:16

They can't go to other ones.

Ron Mattson39:17

That's correct.

Paul Hurst39:18

There are restrictions and limitations on how they can how and where they can enter a park.

Paul Hurst39:24

Some parks the they will not fit the criteria for some parks.

Paul Hurst39:28

Some parks it may or may not but the first contact that the bylaw enforcement officer makes is with the person and the shelters downtown.

Paul Hurst39:36

That is the priority.

Gery Lemon39:38

Okay.

Gery Lemon39:39

Well we have toilet facilities in one of the parks listed here.

Paul Hurst39:45

Correct.

Gery Lemon39:49

Should toilet facilities not be a prerequisite for camping.

Paul Hurst40:01

I can't comment on that.

Paul Hurst40:03

I can't I don't I don't have an answer for that one.

Gery Lemon40:06

I could tell you I I I have a dog who is fascinated with what he finds in a park that doesn't have a toilet.

Gery Lemon40:18

And it would be really, really great if that wasn't there.

John Rogers40:23

And you get to take it home.

John Rogers40:25

Yeah.

Ron Mattson40:26

So on the same if if there is a park that we uh determine is the spot to go, then we could look at putting something in there.

Ron Mattson40:36

Please.

Gery Lemon40:37

Yes.

Gery Lemon40:38

Yes.

Speaker_Unknown40:40

Okay.

John Rogers40:41

Um counselor, you you're bursting i i think that this is this is certainly a really multi-layered conversation where we need to um make decisions with um extra thought and consideration for um actions that could cause um an increase in in um individuals potentially wanting um that area yes yes so i i just think we should we should just um be careful about um you know decisions like like washrooms and things like that yeah i'll hear you counselor rogers yeah i um i would not want this to come to the next council meeting for uh first and second reading there there's a lot to flush out here um and the uh the suggested uh parks for for the point of suggestion um um eagle creek and uh knock and hill um I'm concerned about those two parks being uh very sensitive ecosystems um and alongside a stream uh so you know that the the criteria kind of rules that out um the uh and it's also um the the distance from trails or 40 meters from such and such.

John Rogers42:07

Um it's it's interesting, 40 meters from uh washrooms.

John Rogers42:12

Um and you know one of the one of the criteria that we would have on on park uh any park use is one cannot defecate or urinate in a park or else you get a fine.

John Rogers42:23

So if we're going to designate uh places, then we've got to provide um and we expect them to be in those parks, then we should be expected to uh provide the minimal standards so that um uh we're not going to see um those issues arise.

John Rogers42:39

I mean this this also brings about um an interesting variety of questions and um I'd be curious to know where the other ones that you've, other municipalities that you've listed here, uh Victoria, Calwood, Sanite, Sydney, what number?

John Rogers42:54

How many, how many um um homeless are they willing or could they accept in a given park?

John Rogers42:59

Do they uh do they have any particular number, uh, 10 per park or anything like that?

John Rogers43:07

Um, you know, how do they um uh go about the enforcement?

John Rogers43:11

Um, I know, I and I guess one of the futile things is the ticketing.

John Rogers43:16

Um again, I'd be very curious to see from the Victoria uh City of Victoria how successful they are in in actually collecting any fines from from a ticketing process, if they were able to get the right name.

John Rogers43:28

Um, you know, is it uh is it going to be Bolo and what's what's the staffing resources uh requirements of that?

John Rogers43:34

Do we have to have the police?

John Rogers43:36

Um does the CRD have the same requirements to to allow the homeless in their parks?

John Rogers43:43

Uh should we put um allocate the one if you can rec center uh as a park and as a facility uh in the forested area um i mean there they're and and i guess now that we've cleared out the individuals uh on the on the ministry of highways that land area i'm interested in putting them back on so you know i would caution you uh that without without the tools in this bylaw the cost of enforcement there there is no tools for removal at this point yeah if i know if if serious consideration isn't given to an amendment to manage this issue i can assure you it'll be a larger issue than uh we we have we have crossed this bridge before where we have no we have no tools and no mechanisms i know to interact with these people and that's my concern for the town yeah um I understand the complexities as as counselor Kowalowich has alluded to um without any tools our hands are tied and it will be a free for all and then I guess that's you know where where does it start becoming the the the free for all um uh with these individuals and I'm not I'm you know I I in some senses I say it frivolously on the other hand I'm more than happy to ask the province let's let's talk about their land they just cleared and um maybe that is indeed the best place because it's not near anybody else.

Paul Hurst45:07

Unless unless you live in Evelyn or or Francis View estates sort of been perfectly.

David Screech45:18

Completely mute point with respect.

David Screech45:21

Our bylaw has no effect there.

David Screech45:24

But I I am curious on how we chose the parks we did.

David Screech45:33

You know, how how did we come up with those four?

Paul Hurst45:39

Yeah, it's my my understanding from from the bylaws, of course.

Paul Hurst45:42

They it it spoke to sensitive ecosystems, it spoke to uh playgrounds, it spoke to trails, uh roads.

Paul Hurst45:50

There was a uh a criteria, and I believe it was based on what the other municipalities had done with respect to their uh their bylaw amendments as well.

David Screech46:02

Yeah I I mean I I mean I can't talk about Knocking Hill Park without but it's actually not that close to our house but I can imagine the people on high street looking at that and thinking why on earth is council designating a small park at the end of our street away from transit away from any services um so I'm having a hard time wrapping my my head around the logic of that.

David Screech46:34

The Portage linear park, um, I tend to think that's great, but can we put them in the sanage end?

David Screech46:46

And and Eagle Creek, I I don't know.

David Screech46:49

I mean, the only one there that really makes sense to me is the Viewer Park near the TCH.

David Screech46:55

And how many do we really have to?

David Screech46:59

Are we under an obligation to list more than one?

John Rogers47:06

I know.

John Rogers47:06

Start with one.

Gery Lemon47:12

Oh with Kim?

Gery Lemon47:15

Oh, okay.

Gery Lemon47:16

Great.

Gery Lemon47:16

Well, I see you're on.

Gery Lemon47:17

I just wondered if you were second.

Gery Lemon47:19

Thank you.

Ron Mattson47:19

So, in terms of a spot that's actually convenient for campers and people and services, we've got this, uh, two acres or three acres of park that we've just put on uh that we were just given uh whatever it is that Burnside Watkus.

Ron Mattson47:39

Burnside Watkus.

Ron Mattson47:41

I mean that's a big empty space.

Ron Mattson47:42

I mean, if we had to allocate a spot, it's it's sort of out of view royal.

Ron Mattson47:48

Um and if somebody wants to camp there, they can still wander down to the uh the shopping center and and pick up food or what or whatever.

Ron Mattson47:59

I mean that would make more sense to me than like you say at the end of high street or something.

Gery Lemon48:03

Are you referring to the property that is a we we discussed being a dog park or a playground?

Ron Mattson48:10

Next to the handy dart.

Ron Mattson48:12

I think so.

Ron Mattson48:13

What you're referring to?

Ron Mattson48:14

No, right that's right close to I was gonna say Lunro, it's not Lun.

Ron Mattson48:14

We it's near Eagle Creek.

David Screech48:21

Do you mean the five acres we purchased Ron by Eagle Creek?

Ron Mattson48:25

That Eagle Creek property, but you know, that one that's the farmland.

Gery Lemon48:29

Oh the farmland.

Gery Lemon48:31

Well behind quality.

Ron Mattson48:32

Oh, behind qual behind quality foods.

Ron Mattson48:34

I mean, no one's it's it's in the middle of, you know, in terms of view royal, middle of nowhere.

John Rogers48:41

Yeah, that's to be all.

John Rogers48:43

Yeah, this the um you know, I I appreciate the staff report, you know, coming to us, but um it is going to be a thorny issue, and um we will still need to, you know, um provide some kind of facilities.

John Rogers49:01

I don't think we can do it without a uh a washroom or yeah, at least the other part of this is it's not like we're gonna be putting signs up camp here.

Paul Hurst49:13

It's it's you can this is exactly designed that if somebody does set up a camp in an area that that isn't permitted, then we have the tools to enforce the removal of those people.

Paul Hurst49:26

This is this has a time limit on it.

Paul Hurst49:28

This is a 7 p.m.

Paul Hurst49:29

to 7 a.m.

Paul Hurst49:30

And every 7 a.m.

Paul Hurst49:31

every morning, you know, okay, people would be moved along.

Paul Hurst49:35

This isn't a permanent um uh permanent setup.

Paul Hurst49:38

Right now we have no ability to move anybody from any park in V Royal.

Gery Lemon49:43

Understood.

Gery Lemon49:44

Lindsay, you had your hand up.

Gery Lemon49:44

Director Chase.

Lindsay Chase49:52

Thank thank you, Councillor Lemon.

Lindsay Chase49:54

Um, with respect to the land off of Little Road, that land is in the agricultural land reserve, and the town has not yet acquired a non a non uh farm use permit for that land, um, which I I would so I would be very cautious about um any park type uses associated with that, where we we don't actually have permission to do anything yet.

Ron Mattson50:18

Okay.

Gery Lemon50:23

Chief, I I appreciate this report, and I I know that the discussions were per chat perhaps got beyond what you're trying to do here.

Gery Lemon50:33

You're trying to you're trying to make to yes.

David Screech50:39

Thanks, Councillor Lemon.

David Screech50:40

I just I I would like an answer to my question from either Kim or Chief Hearst if he knows it.

David Screech50:47

Do we have an obligation?

David Screech50:49

How many parks do we have to define?

Kim Anema50:54

One, I thought.

Kim Anema50:57

I'm gonna defer to Mr.

Kim Anema50:59

Anima.

Kim Anema50:59

Yeah.

Kim Anema51:00

There is no specific requirement.

Kim Anema51:02

The the opportunity for homeless to camp in our parks is established by court decisions only.

Kim Anema51:11

And the choices that have been made by local government is to apply a broad spectrum of solutions.

Kim Anema51:18

Some communities have named numerous parks that are permitted.

Kim Anema51:24

Some have not identified any parks and have only created requirements that are physical, things like 40 meters from a washroom, those kind of requirements.

Kim Anema51:38

And so we can name one or we can name all of them except one, depending on are we giving permission or are we limiting where they can go?

Kim Anema51:48

Um the point is we do need the tools, and it it is our objective to put this on a regular agenda soon for readings.

Kim Anema51:56

And so we do need the feedback that you're providing today so that we can amend the bala to suit what you want to do.

David Screech52:03

Thank you.

David Screech52:04

I think we all fully understand the court ruling and the implications.

David Screech52:09

Um so I'm not sure that you need to continuously bang us over the head with this.

David Screech52:15

Um it is it's a significant step for our community, and our residents are going to have a lot to say about it.

David Screech52:28

Um, you know, especially given how badly Victoria has managed this and the disaster it's been, and to see that drive by what used to be a beautiful park, Stadacona Park, um, and have a look at all the tents in there, and they never come down.

David Screech52:49

Um, so our residents are going to be incredibly apprehensive, um, and I think with lots of good cause.

David Screech52:57

Um so we need to approach it carefully, and we need to think it through and make sure we're doing it right for our community.

David Screech53:07

And I just I'm I'm not sure why Knock and Hill Park is on there.

David Screech53:11

I'm not, you know, Eagle Creek Park, I think is I don't know.

David Screech53:16

I I don't understand how they've been chosen as opposed to say Glen Early Park.

David Screech53:22

Um, you know, I I I don't know what parameters have been used, or the park by um Counselor Rogers' house.

David Screech53:32

You know, so that's my question is do we have to do more than what?

David Screech53:39

Can we take a chunk of View Royal Park and say if you're gonna camp in View Royal, this is your designated area.

David Screech53:46

There's an outhouse not too far away.

David Screech53:48

Um you can put a tent up there from 7 p.m.

David Screech53:52

to 7 a.m.

David Screech53:53

That's I guess the crux of my question.

Ron Mattson53:56

Yeah.

Ron Mattson53:57

If there's no spots uptown that can go to a shelter.

Gery Lemon54:00

Um how would would bylaw be on the job at seven in the morning?

Paul Hurst54:07

They could be if they were made aware of uh of an incident.

Paul Hurst54:11

It's uh they're not a 24-hour service, so complaints coming in at the end.

Gery Lemon54:14

So that's that's that's the challenge too, isn't it?

Paul Hurst54:17

We don't have 24 hour no camping usually becomes a hot spot where somebody sets up camp for a period of time.

Paul Hurst54:24

It's not just an one-night affair.

Paul Hurst54:26

How about weekends?

Paul Hurst54:27

You know, yeah, we could somebody could move in on a Saturday and um you know it gets reported, and you know, I'm in contact with the bio officer and say, you know, we have an issue, and he comes in early on Monday or he deals with it at 8:30 on Monday, and the problem's resolved by you know that morning.

Paul Hurst54:45

Um sometimes it's not an instant fix.

Paul Hurst54:48

It it's not that simple.

Paul Hurst54:50

Yeah, it is a complex issue.

Gery Lemon54:54

Okay.

Gery Lemon54:54

Uh yeah, go ahead excuse me, Joe.

Gery Lemon54:57

Kim.

Gery Lemon54:57

Sorry.

Kim Anema54:58

And so in response to the mayor's question, you know, one part may well suffice.

Kim Anema55:04

I am concerned the extent to which the general public perceives that we're providing permission.

Kim Anema55:11

That's why I've been reiterating the court case.

Kim Anema55:14

I don't mean to browbeat you or otherwise cause you concern in terms of my repeated comment about this being a situation where we're limiting what the courts have decided.

Gery Lemon55:26

Yeah.

Gery Lemon55:27

Thank you.

Gery Lemon55:28

Thank you very much.

Gery Lemon55:29

And and what what I hear you saying is we have we have a potential massive problem now that people are generally just not aware of.

Gery Lemon55:42

So we need tools to control it.

Gery Lemon55:44

However, what in doing this, what we're doing is putting it out in the public.

Gery Lemon55:49

And so the fix perhaps is creating a bigger problem in terms of public concern than the existing.

Paul Hurst56:01

Perhaps a perception versus reality scenario.

John Rogers56:06

So question with with respect to the province and and along the ENN tracks, um they obviously don't have are there anybody is anybody allowed to camp there?

John Rogers56:21

You know what how does the how does the province um have the authority to move them out?

Paul Hurst56:27

That's their property, it's private property.

John Rogers56:28

Yeah, but that but you know, but doesn't the Supreme Court say anyone can camp anywhere?

John Rogers56:29

I can't answer that question.

Paul Hurst56:34

I know MOT is is very more than willing to move off their property.

John Rogers56:39

Um I guess my concern is that now that um this is coming out and and we're having this discussion, maybe we should let uh sleeping homeless lie.

John Rogers56:49

Um aside from the fact that uh you know there was the fire uh uh in that area.

John Rogers56:55

But you know, that's it's a it's the same thing with the casino in the 1720.

John Rogers57:00

They burnt down a tree and you know it was in the rain, but they they had a fire in the stump and the tree fell over.

John Rogers57:07

So yeah, um I think in in sensitive ecosystem areas that um um I that would that's more problems than it's worth and um I think if we designate rural part, it did okay.

Gery Lemon57:21

Counselor Kowalovich is the place.

Damian Kowalewich57:24

I just wanted to address Councillor Rogers' uh recommendation or uh desire to have that area returned back to Modi.

Damian Kowalewich57:35

My understanding is um from my experience is that the the fallback for Modi is that it's uh it's a safety issue with allowing uh camping next to main highways.

Damian Kowalewich57:47

That's that seems to be their um their fallback just from from experience.

John Rogers57:53

Yeah, yeah.

Gery Lemon57:54

Okay, so what are we doing?

Gery Lemon57:56

Oh council mounts.

Ron Mattson57:57

In terms of what we're doing, I don't think we can just sort of not do anything.

Ron Mattson57:59

I think we should pick a park whether or whether staff come back with a recommendation of one spot and a location within that spot.

Ron Mattson58:08

But I don't think we have an option.

Ron Mattson58:10

I think we have to.

Ron Mattson58:11

Staff has made a good case on why we need this bylaw and we need to pick a spot.

Ron Mattson58:15

And if we do that and we have the bylaw, I mean it's not like we're gonna be telling everybody, the homeless or the camp people up there, that it's perfectly fine to park there.

Ron Mattson58:26

It's just that when someone does park there or camp, and if they're in a spot that we don't want them, we can say, sorry, you can't camp there.

Ron Mattson58:34

We have a bylaw, you have to go camp here.

Ron Mattson58:38

And it'll prevent us a whole lot of aggravation from what I hear is when someone decides to camp down in Portage Park and they just decide not to leave, and we have no way of getting rid of them.

Gery Lemon58:50

Council Mr.

Gery Lemon58:52

Screech, do you have a comment on this?

David Screech58:54

Well, I mean, I I agree with what Councillor Matchin just said.

David Screech58:58

Obviously, we have to do something.

David Screech59:00

I just I don't I mean whether we do one or two, possibly, I just would like us to do what we need to do to be reasonable and fair, and to give staff tools we need.

David Screech59:18

And and regardless of the fact that we can look at this as giving staff tools, but let's face it, at the moment, it is technically not allowed for anyone to set up tent in a V-World Park.

David Screech59:36

And, you know, it I'm I'm not saying that we can leave it like that.

David Screech59:42

I know we can't, but we don't have major problems.

David Screech59:45

As you know, I know we have some problems, but we don't have people like you see in Santa Cona Park or Beacon Hill or any number of City of Victoria or even Stanage Parks for that matter.

David Screech59:58

Um, we've been very fortunate to avoid the major problems.

David Screech1:00:03

So I do have worries that if we all of a sudden say, you know, here it is, here's your bathroom, um, you can set up at 7 p.m.

David Screech1:00:12

You need to be that all of a sudden we're gonna see more.

David Screech1:00:14

And I I think it's possible.

David Screech1:00:19

So we but then the big thing is we need to define the parks.

David Screech1:00:24

Um, I think.

David Screech1:00:25

But other than that, we obviously have to move it forward.

David Screech1:00:28

But do we say Portage Park away from the playground and View Raw Park to be reasonable?

David Screech1:00:34

What what do we do?

Ron Mattson1:00:36

Um I just wanted to reinforce that nobody's gonna know about this unless they go read our bylaw.

David Screech1:00:42

Uh Ron, the me the media is gonna pick up on this for 100%.

David Screech1:00:47

And the homeless agencies are gonna pick up on it, and they hand out leaflets to homeless people who are looking for places to pitch tents.

David Screech1:00:57

Um, it it'll get out there.

David Screech1:00:59

People are gonna know about it.

Ron Mattson1:00:59

Yeah.

Ron Mattson1:01:01

Make it legal and inconvenient.

John Rogers1:01:04

My last my last point is that when it comes back um uh to the council meeting um there's a paragraph that shows the table of denoded restrictions addressed by the Native municipalities um I can I have a better understanding of what those um uh columns mean you know if if Victoria has a a sighting limit how much is the sighting limit uh I don't know what it means by facilities and I'd certainly be interested to know that parks in each of those municipalities which parks they have they identified.

Paul Hurst1:01:34

Okay.

John Rogers1:01:34

Thank you.

Paul Hurst1:01:38

Okay, so what are we gonna do here that's that's gonna take that's gonna take a considerable amount of time and staff time to get that information.

Paul Hurst1:01:46

And I don't think we'll be in a position to bring this back.

Paul Hurst1:01:48

This is going to delay it significantly.

Paul Hurst1:01:50

Just being honest, John.

Paul Hurst1:01:52

It's just that's that's many bylaws with a lot of staff time to review.

John Rogers1:01:55

That's right.

John Rogers1:01:56

Um, I mean, even if you give reference to you know their material, you know, where I can supply you with all their bylaws to review if you'd like.

Paul Hurst1:02:04

I mean, I I I'm I'm just being candid.

Paul Hurst1:02:06

It's it's that's fair.

John Rogers1:02:08

Yeah.

Paul Hurst1:02:08

This is specific to View Royal, and and the examples cited in the chart were more as a reference to show that other municipalities have enacted almost identical bylaws that are proposed.

David Screech1:02:19

Yeah, it's it's it's very easy to find which parks are allowed in Victoria and Santa just by going on their website.

John Rogers1:02:27

Is it?

David Screech1:02:27

Yeah, is that yeah?

David Screech1:02:29

So I think any one of us who feels the need to do that could do that independently.

Gery Lemon1:02:35

So do we have a motion?

Gery Lemon1:02:37

Yeah, move or state.

David Screech1:02:38

Second.

David Screech1:02:38

Second.

David Screech1:02:39

In favor.

Gery Lemon1:02:41

Okay.

David Screech1:02:41

But Councillor Lemmon, does staff feel they have enough direction to forward and come back to us now?

Paul Hurst1:02:50

Staff, do you feel like that?

Paul Hurst1:02:52

What I've heard, and please correct me if I'm wrong.

Paul Hurst1:02:54

What I've heard is you want a more defined uh or a a different list of parks.

Paul Hurst1:03:00

Is that correct?

Gery Lemon1:03:02

Or perhaps a shorter list of parks.

Paul Hurst1:03:03

A shorter list of parks.

Paul Hurst1:03:06

And is there any direction on which parks uh you would like to see on a shorter?

Paul Hurst1:03:11

Okay.

Ron Mattson1:03:12

Not Eagle Creek not eagle creek not knocking hill okay there she just got cut by 50 percent i still like little park it's in the middle of nowhere but if you're gonna pick a bus the other question too is if could you just allocate or sort of specify a specific location say in view royal park that's away from everybody okay yeah no i can do that well that's in the creek really isn't it well i i uh yeah okay and and um chief you're still up.

Paul Hurst1:03:53

I am i i just i just fire's quiet, I thought i'd take on the bylaw department.

Paul Hurst1:03:58

So how's your afternoon?

Paul Hurst1:04:00

Oh it's wonderful.

Paul Hurst1:04:01

When I'm done here, I'm gonna go camp at Portage.

Paul Hurst1:04:05

Okay, next report.

Paul Hurst1:04:08

Amendments to municipal ticket information bylaw 643.

Paul Hurst1:04:11

This is a housekeeping issue that's just updating our MTI and um fine bylaws.

Paul Hurst1:04:18

We have some bylaws that identify uh infractions or don't identify infractions, and our MTI bylaw doesn't jive with uh some of our current bylaws.

Paul Hurst1:04:32

So we're we're updating this is simply to update the MTI bylaw so it's consistent with some of our our current bylaws.

Gery Lemon1:04:38

Why are my edits in canji?

Gery Lemon1:04:41

In what?

Gery Lemon1:04:42

Kanji.

Gery Lemon1:04:43

Or Mandarin.

Paul Hurst1:04:44

I would suggest that you put in a ticket to ESW.

Gery Lemon1:04:45

My edits.

Gery Lemon1:04:46

Yeah.

Paul Hurst1:04:46

They're all true.

Paul Hurst1:04:48

I can't answer that question.

John Rogers1:04:52

Yeah, it's it's raised rings.

John Rogers1:04:54

You know, we can't, I can't hardly read the numbers because uh we've got this uh added to reflect CU and in the Mandarin or Asian dialect.

Paul Hurst1:05:02

Okay.

Paul Hurst1:05:03

I I've got it in, yeah.

Paul Hurst1:05:04

I I'm not sure why it's they are.

Gery Lemon1:05:08

It's interesting.

Ron Mattson1:05:08

Any suggestions from our it's kind of incomprehensible, the people who create the can understand this.

Gery Lemon1:05:15

Anyway, um do we have a motion to reset?

John Rogers1:05:18

Oh, this it's just a question.

John Rogers1:05:19

Um, there's uh some that have been cancelled out, crossed out.

John Rogers1:05:23

Is it because they're in some other um bylaw?

Ron Mattson1:05:26

They appear in other bylaws, yes.

Ron Mattson1:05:27

Okay.

Ron Mattson1:05:28

So those are the red ones that have been canceled, like the golf ball in any manner.

Ron Mattson1:05:29

Yeah, okay.

Ron Mattson1:05:32

Something like one read.

Paul Hurst1:05:35

They've been updated or the the fines have been changed.

John Rogers1:05:39

Okay.

John Rogers1:05:40

I see the it's more expensive.

John Rogers1:05:42

The fines are greater if you put up a campaign sign.

Paul Hurst1:05:49

I I thought it said specifically a John Rogers campaign sign.

Paul Hurst1:05:52

It did, yeah.

Paul Hurst1:05:53

It was a significant fine for your campaign.

Gery Lemon1:05:55

This is for you poll.

John Rogers1:05:58

Move receipt.

Gery Lemon1:05:59

On the subtaver.

Gery Lemon1:06:01

Motion carried.

Gery Lemon1:06:02

And I'll make sure that you get a still on to you?

Paul Hurst1:06:05

Thank you.

Paul Hurst1:06:06

No.

Paul Hurst1:06:07

I think I'm done.

Paul Hurst1:06:08

No, you're not.

Paul Hurst1:06:08

Acting mayor.

Gery Lemon1:06:09

No, you have building department report.

Paul Hurst1:06:11

Nope.

Paul Hurst1:06:12

You don't?

Paul Hurst1:06:12

I'm gonna turn that over to my learned colleague, uh Director.

Gery Lemon1:06:14

Well, what we've got we've got to get it out of my lane.

Paul Hurst1:06:15

Oh, of course you do.

Paul Hurst1:06:22

Thanks, Paul.

Gery Lemon1:06:23

Thank you, Chief.

Gery Lemon1:06:23

Thank you very much.

Paul Hurst1:06:24

Only three issues for you today.

Paul Hurst1:06:27

I appreciate the uh the commentary.

Paul Hurst1:06:29

Thank you.

David Screech1:06:31

Thanks, Paul.

Gery Lemon1:06:32

Thank you, Mayor.

Gery Lemon1:06:34

Do we have Director Chase?

David Screech1:06:37

I'll move I'll move receipt.

Gery Lemon1:06:39

Second.

Gery Lemon1:06:39

Second.

Gery Lemon1:06:42

Carried.

Gery Lemon1:06:43

Thank you very much.

Gery Lemon1:06:44

And um then we have moving right on down here.

Gery Lemon1:06:49

I'm sorry, people, I've just lost my uh finance.

Gery Lemon1:06:55

Well, every time this thing falls over, I lose where I am.

Gery Lemon1:07:02

Um nothing from you, Mayor Screach from Finance and Administration.

Gery Lemon1:07:08

Oh yes, there is indeed.

David Screech1:07:10

Yeah, you you can just carry on, Councillor Lemon, if you like.

David Screech1:07:14

Because I'll only the two reports.

Gery Lemon1:07:17

All right.

Gery Lemon1:07:17

And uh do we have is um director Christensen or Steve Vella on online?

Gery Lemon1:07:25

There you are.

Gery Lemon1:07:25

Hello.

Damon Christenson1:07:29

Good afternoon.

Damon Christenson1:07:30

Uh nothing to add to the report unless there are any questions.

Ron Mattson1:07:33

No, no.

David Screech1:07:35

I'll move for seat.

Gery Lemon1:07:37

Second, we have a question.

Gery Lemon1:07:38

Yeah.

Ron Mattson1:07:40

Yes, uh, thank you, report.

Ron Mattson1:07:41

As usual, it it looks like we're doing really well.

Ron Mattson1:07:43

I just wanted to ask you if uh there's anything we need to worry about.

Ron Mattson1:07:47

Anything we should be keeping our eye on.

Damon Christenson1:07:51

Uh thank you for the question.

Damon Christenson1:07:52

It is rather early in the year yet, given that the budget just got approved.

Damon Christenson1:07:57

Um, I expect that you will see the numbers move a little bit more in the next month's report.

Damon Christenson1:08:02

Um, nothing really to be concerned about at this point in time.

Damon Christenson1:08:05

Thank you.

Damon Christenson1:08:06

And I was just wondering if we've had a casino report lately and how we're doing our how our projections on those revenues we do, we will include those numbers in the next month's report.

Damon Christenson1:08:21

Uh we have uh received the first quarter um gaming revenue, and it is in line with the budget, the total budget for this year is uh 1.5 million in gaming revenue, and I think we're close to that, uh you know, proportionately for the first quarter.

Damon Christenson1:08:39

Okay, thank you.

Speaker_Unknown1:08:40

Okay.

David Screech1:08:41

All right.

David Screech1:08:41

I think we're actually pretty well over it.

David Screech1:08:43

Are we not, Don?

David Screech1:08:44

I just signed those checks yesterday, and and our share for the first quarter was half a million.

Damon Christenson1:08:51

It was close to that.

David Screech1:08:55

But yeah.

David Screech1:08:56

I'm just being a little bit more positive and optimistic than Don.

David Screech1:09:00

That's all.

Ron Mattson1:09:02

Hopefully.

Gery Lemon1:09:03

Are you still putting back words in one of those holes though?

Gery Lemon1:09:07

Okay, so motion to receive.

Ron Mattson1:09:09

So move.

Gery Lemon1:09:09

Second.

Gery Lemon1:09:11

In favor, motion carried.

Gery Lemon1:09:13

Thank you very much, Don.

Gery Lemon1:09:14

You're on.

Gery Lemon1:09:16

Um CAO Anima.

Kim Anema1:09:21

Good afternoon.

Gery Lemon1:09:22

Good afternoon.

Kim Anema1:09:24

So, yes, we have the uh the CAO report regarding um events of the last month.

Kim Anema1:09:30

Um, under administration, we have the alternate approval process for two parkland disposition bylaws, including the required newspaper notices.

Kim Anema1:09:40

Municipal municipalities are required to seek electoral assent through either an alternative approval process or by referendum for surfing and bylaws.

Kim Anema1:09:50

In this initiative, two pieces of undeveloped parkland are proposed to be disposed of to the Capitol Regional District for incorporation into their Mill Hill Regional Park.

Kim Anema1:10:02

Next item: you are reminded that the volunteer appreciation dinner is going to be held late this month.

Kim Anema1:10:08

I think the date is May the 28th.

Kim Anema1:10:14

I'm sure you're well aware that there's a lot of construction happening at the Craigflower Manor site, so it's not available for Canada Day.

Kim Anema1:10:22

So we are making alternative arrangements for Canada Day.

Kim Anema1:10:25

The town will follow last year's theme of providing Canada Day item giveaways.

Kim Anema1:10:31

The giveaways this year on Canada Day will include candidate flag buttons, pins, small paper flags, waterless tattoos, and a 20-inch cotton canvas tote bag with the View Royal logo.

Kim Anema1:10:44

View Royal residents can pick up the candidate items while doing business at town hall or after hours outside town hall by the main doors on June 21st and the 23rd.

Kim Anema1:10:57

The finance department is pleased MNP conducted the 2021 year-end financial audit in April virtually.

Kim Anema1:11:05

The unmodified clean audit opinion of the 2021 consolidated statements was provided.

Kim Anema1:11:12

Property tax notice time is at hand the homeowner grant and the property tax deferment programs will continue to be administered by the province.

Kim Anema1:11:21

We used to administer them here.

Kim Anema1:11:24

Residents will now apply directly to the province under both of these programs.

Kim Anema1:11:28

Staff are undertaking active messaging via the property tax notice and the insert of the tax notice.

Kim Anema1:11:36

The town website and social media, and will also be participating with other municipalities in a large newspaper advertisement.

Kim Anema1:11:45

So last month's council members got to view the Microsoft Surface Pro tablet.

Kim Anema1:11:52

Tablet will be provided to council after the election to replace the iPads that are currently in use.

Kim Anema1:11:57

The tablet will be the only device required to fully participate as a View council member, a View royal council member.

Kim Anema1:12:04

All town business can be performed on this single device.

Kim Anema1:12:10

Development Services is looking forward to the arrival of two new staff members later this month, bringing the department back to a full complement.

Kim Anema1:12:19

Staff have initiated the development of zoning for the remaining land use contract areas in View Royal.

Kim Anema1:12:26

A letter was sent to the property owners, and we are getting some response.

Kim Anema1:12:30

We are fielding a few phone calls from those that own property within that region.

Kim Anema1:12:35

The community development advisory committee held a special meeting to review and make recommendations on the draft climate action strategy.

Kim Anema1:12:43

After a final review, this strategy will be coming forward to council for an endorsement.

Kim Anema1:12:50

In the engineering department, three students were hired for summer jobs with the town, one engineering intern and two parts laborers.

Kim Anema1:13:00

The town has been successful in two grant applications, securing funding from the government of Canada towards hiring these students for the summer.

Kim Anema1:13:11

We are currently at the initial stages of the development of the active transportation network plan.

Kim Anema1:13:16

The first phase of the project involves gathering and collating data for the consultant to produce a baseline conditions report.

Kim Anema1:13:23

Once that's complete, the engineering department will bring forward the initial stakeholder and public engagement strategy to council prior to its launch.

Kim Anema1:13:34

The site preparation work at Watkins Way Community Park site is well underway.

Kim Anema1:13:38

The BC Transit contractor is undertaking the work on the town's behalf to level off the grade of land, making it more usable for future public use.

Kim Anema1:13:59

Preparation for the busy spring and summer season has begun.

Kim Anema1:14:02

Terrass maintenance and parks and green spaces, as well as the increased refuse collection within parks, are the current focus for park staff.

Kim Anema1:14:11

Water for irrigation and water fountains has been turned on for the season.

Kim Anema1:14:16

The View Royal Fastball Association has again assisted with the preparation of the infields of Helmcken Centennial Park.

Kim Anema1:14:23

Their contribution is a great help to parks in getting the diamonds in shape for the 2022 ball season, especially with the wet spring weather that we've had.

Kim Anema1:14:34

The town has also been successful in acquiring a grant from VC Hydroge Rebreeding Program.

Kim Anema1:14:41

The grant will fund the purchase of plants for pollinator beds at Welland Legacy Park and the Community Orchard.

Kim Anema1:14:48

Archives.

Kim Anema1:14:50

The Access to Memory Online repository is now live.

Kim Anema1:14:54

Archives volunteers have been kept apprised to this project through the months and were notified by email of its launch in the first week of April.

Kim Anema1:15:03

The public has access both through a direct site and now also through the town's website.

Kim Anema1:15:08

Material continues to be added regularly from the town's collections, with the most recent addition being May 5th of 2022.

Kim Anema1:15:16

So after this update, there will be a presentation by the records coordinator archivist of the access to memory online.

Gery Lemon1:15:26

Okay, would you like to um to take questions now or after the presentation?

Kim Anema1:15:32

Let's take questions now.

Gery Lemon1:15:33

Okay.

Gery Lemon1:15:34

All right.

Gery Lemon1:15:35

Questions.

Damian Kowalewich1:15:38

Any thank you.

Damian Kowalewich1:15:42

So for Canada Day, there will be gift bags available for residents, so to speak.

Damian Kowalewich1:15:50

At the front.

Damian Kowalewich1:15:51

Yeah, okay.

Damian Kowalewich1:15:52

And are there any formal or informal events planned on Canada Day at all that we know of?

Damian Kowalewich1:15:58

Nothing on the uh okay.

Damian Kowalewich1:16:02

Okay.

John Rogers1:16:03

Alrighty.

Gery Lemon1:16:04

Good.

Gery Lemon1:16:04

Anyone else?

Gery Lemon1:16:06

Councillor Rogers.

John Rogers1:16:07

Uh on the uh development services second paragraph.

John Rogers1:16:10

Um, I think the you're referring to when staff initiated development zoning, that was the Glantana area.

Kim Anema1:16:16

That's correct.

John Rogers1:16:16

Yeah, okay, great.

John Rogers1:16:18

Thanks.

John Rogers1:16:18

And um uh congratulations.

John Rogers1:16:20

Um, really pleased to see the um um BC Hydro's re-greening grant uh for well and part.

John Rogers1:16:26

Well done.

John Rogers1:16:27

Thank you.

Gery Lemon1:16:29

Counselor Matson, you good?

John Rogers1:16:31

I'm good.

Gery Lemon1:16:31

Mayor Screech.

Gery Lemon1:16:33

Anything?

David Screech1:16:34

No, I'm good.

David Screech1:16:35

Thank you.

Gery Lemon1:16:36

I I have just a a question about the um oh the advertising with all the other municipalities.

Gery Lemon1:16:45

What what is this?

Gery Lemon1:16:48

You're all going to have an insert in presumably the Times colonist featuring the various tax rates.

Kim Anema1:17:01

Our finance director will respond to that question.

Gery Lemon1:17:05

Okay.

Damon Christenson1:17:06

Thank you.

Damon Christenson1:17:07

Uh uh Council Lemon.

Damon Christenson1:17:09

And I can't quite I can't quote chapter and verse, but I believe it's just a rather large, hard to miss ad that reminds people that their property taxes are due, and to encourage them that if eligible, they should claim their homeowner grant with the province and and watch for uh different and a little bit about the deferment program as well.

Damon Christenson1:17:32

Uh it it's kind of a coordinate coordinated effort to kind of use uh our money wisely to get the message out there that people um we don't like it when people miss paying their property taxes.

Damon Christenson1:17:44

We don't enjoy imposing a penalty.

Damon Christenson1:17:47

So we really want to encourage people to contact their municipality.

Damon Christenson1:17:51

And I believe all of the municipalities participating in the ad are mentioned in the ad and and the email address and how to contact and phone numbers for how to get a hold of their municipality if they have questions about the property taxes.

Gery Lemon1:18:03

That's great.

Gery Lemon1:18:04

That makes all kinds of sense.

Gery Lemon1:18:05

Thank you, John.

Gery Lemon1:18:06

Okay.

Gery Lemon1:18:07

Um do you do you want to introduce?

Sarah Jones1:18:11

I will have Sarah.

Sarah Jones1:18:12

I will happily do that.

Sarah Jones1:18:14

And we'll also uh touch back to a question you had.

Sarah Jones1:18:19

The bags uh for Canada Day are those cloth bags that you were provided with earlier for the cloth cloth checkout bag regulation bag so oh I just I did have one further question that was regarding the the bag bylaw have we had any feedback reaction interest we have had some and it's primarily in relation to the uh compostable bags.

Sarah Jones1:18:47

I have provided an answer to the one person who asked the question, and that is compostable bags are still considered um plastic bags um unless they are uh and are not fully, they don't fully break down unless they are put into the proper compost stream.

Sarah Jones1:19:05

So when a bag leaves a grocery store that may provide those, there's no telling how they'll be used afterwards.

Sarah Jones1:19:13

And so they are still treated as a plastic bag in our bylaw, as they are in all the other bylaws in the region and in many places in BC.

Sarah Jones1:19:26

So yes.

Sarah Jones1:19:27

Thank you.

Sarah Jones1:19:29

You are welcome.

Sarah Jones1:19:30

And with us now, I'm happy to say, is uh Mel Denise, our records coordinator and archivist.

Sarah Jones1:19:37

And I have to say, this initiative you will have heard about from time to time over the years, and council has supported the project.

Sarah Jones1:19:45

It is like an iceberg, this project and this work, where there is much work that happens before you actually see anything.

Sarah Jones1:19:53

And when Mel shows you what has gone into it, you will perhaps better be able to understand it.

Sarah Jones1:20:00

And maybe you've already gone to the website to check it out and and will have seen for yourself the iceberg that it is.

Sarah Jones1:20:09

But it is uh a thing of beauty, and um Mel can explain it in more detail uh in in a few minutes though, and uh she's put together a great presentation to show you um the work that she she has worked on now for several well over a year.

Sarah Jones1:20:27

Um, but as have prior people in this position as well as some of our summer help and volunteers that have come in.

Sarah Jones1:20:36

So it is the culmination of many people being involved, and the work will continue.

Sarah Jones1:20:43

And so it's a very exciting project, and I will turn it over to you, Mel.

Gery Lemon1:20:47

That's great.

Gery Lemon1:20:48

Welcome, Mel.

Gery Lemon1:20:49

I I did check out this.

M. Denys1:20:54

Good afternoon, Chair and Acting Mayor, Lemon, Counselors, and hello, Mayor Street.

M. Denys1:20:59

Thank you for the opportunity to present this initiative to the committee.

M. Denys1:21:03

I am here to introduce you to the new View Royal Archives Access to Memory website, otherwise known as Adam, A T O M.

M. Denys1:21:12

This online repository now displays our growing digitized collection.

M. Denys1:21:17

I will share my screen with you and demonstrate how to navigate to the site and highlight some of its features.

M. Denys1:21:37

It can be accessed from anywhere with a computer and internet connection.

M. Denys1:21:43

The website can be reached two ways through the town's website, as you see on the screen here, or entering the address View Royal Archives, accessToMemory.org into a web browser such as Edge or Google.

M. Denys1:21:58

So if you take your mouse and you hover over the Discover View Royal tab on our main page, you'll go down to Archives and Heritage and over to View Royal Archives and click on that.

M. Denys1:22:11

It takes you to the View Royal Archives page, and this page provides information on the history and services of our archives.

M. Denys1:22:20

Visitors have free access to browse the entire collection.

M. Denys1:22:24

They're not required to create logins or accounts or passwords to use this site.

M. Denys1:22:30

So it is free access to all.

M. Denys1:22:33

If we scroll down to the materials section here, you will see this blue text.

M. Denys1:22:38

That is the link to the Access to Memory website.

M. Denys1:22:41

So if we click on this, we land on the welcome page to our website.

M. Denys1:22:48

Being a community archives, our main objects or objective on Atom is to provide heritage information and convey a sense of community connection for visitors from experienced researchers to accidental explorers.

M. Denys1:23:02

So we do encourage everyone to come onto the site and see what's there.

M. Denys1:23:06

I just wanted to note that we do have a photo that will be posted to this main page, so there will be an image on this landing page shortly, hopefully by the end of the week.

M. Denys1:23:16

This is a well-known and well used platform.

M. Denys1:23:20

Some organizations that use it that you might be familiar with or will be familiar with are the City of Victoria, District of Sanage, UBC, Memory BC, which is through the Archives Association of British Columbia, University of Ottawa, and even on an international level, UNESCO uses Atom for their archives platform.

M. Denys1:23:43

This is the welcome page or landing page for our website.

M. Denys1:23:47

And you will see in the left hand side here that there is a browse by menu, and there is also a browse button up top here.

M. Denys1:23:56

And these are the elements or filters for finding specific entries or browsing by care or category.

M. Denys1:24:04

The menu below highlights the popular searches for the week, but I do want to note that these numbers here are more likely associated to the work that we've been doing behind the scenes as we add and edit the information as opposed to external visitors at this time.

M. Denys1:24:20

But after we start getting the foundations finished, these numbers will reflect more of the actual visitors to the site.

M. Denys1:24:29

Let's look at digital objects.

M. Denys1:24:32

These are image files, and they're of photos or scanned images of an item.

M. Denys1:24:39

As you can see here, we currently have 89 digital objects uploaded to the website, but we have many more in queue being processed.

M. Denys1:24:48

We will be uploading a very large scanning project shortly of the Strawberry Vale Community Association's albums that were donated to the archives some years ago, and that goes into the history of the area and Strawberry Vale Community Hall.

M. Denys1:25:05

Photos and documentation are the most popular for viewing, so we are building up that content as our initial priority.

M. Denys1:25:13

These images are items, or sorry, these images are considered items, and item level entries are the most details and require the most time to process.

M. Denys1:25:23

So we will be selecting the easy wins, quote unquote, for the start.

M. Denys1:25:29

This is material that already meets the criteria for permissions, privacy considerations, and ease of digitization, or items that have already been digitized.

M. Denys1:25:40

I'm going to click on this photo down here on this little thumbnail image, and it's going to bring up a page that has all of the information area displayed below.

M. Denys1:25:51

And this also gives some of the metadata associated to this image.

M. Denys1:25:56

I know some of you will recognize Joe Barr, Maureen Duffus, and Michael Pope.

M. Denys1:26:00

And this happens to be a photo taken when Maureen Duffus first received a copy of Craigflower Country.

M. Denys1:26:06

Her, I believe that was probably her fourth published book.

M. Denys1:26:11

So I do, I do love this photo because we use Craigflower Country in their archives, quite a bit as reference material.

M. Denys1:26:19

This information area displayed below, it provides all the information that someone will need to understand or gives a context of what this photo is.

M. Denys1:26:30

We've selected to apply ISAD G or the General International Standard Archival Description as our content model.

M. Denys1:26:38

And it is a system of controlled vocabulary, description rules, and elements which applies a consistent structure to all of their archival collection.

M. Denys1:26:48

Information management systems and guidelines are found in other such collecting institutions, such as libraries.

M. Denys1:26:55

So it is very standard to have some sort of structure when you have these types of collections.

M. Denys1:27:01

It promotes accessibility, and this is the main purpose of an archives is people being able to understand and find what they're looking for.

M. Denys1:27:11

With ISAD, the hierarchy of all of the information is in a parent-child or relationship.

M. Denys1:27:19

So you will notice that there are breadcrumb trails between all of the different levels as you look at photos and information.

M. Denys1:27:26

When you use these access points, such as subjects and places, you will see that they are tagged with different areas in View Royal or people in View Royal, so you can make the connections.

M. Denys1:27:39

Here we can go look at airplane images, aerial views, or we could even look for different places in town by street name, et cetera.

M. Denys1:27:52

Future phases we'll see more textual data added, information described at a higher level that summarizes our fonts or collections and the general contents to give people a sense of all of the other information that we do have in the archives, things that might not have any photos or images attached, but as good research material.

M. Denys1:28:13

This is an ongoing project and new uploads will be scheduled every week and we encourage people to visit often to see what has been added.

M. Denys1:28:22

It is our goal like I said to keep processing the photos and get more and more images on here for people to enjoy.

M. Denys1:28:30

And I would be happy to answer any questions that people have about the project.

Gery Lemon1:28:36

Thank you, Mel.

Gery Lemon1:28:37

I think it's wonderful how you you're bringing the archives right into people's homes and lives.

Gery Lemon1:28:44

And it's super interesting.

Gery Lemon1:28:47

Questions for Mel?

Gery Lemon1:28:49

Counselor Matson.

Ron Mattson1:28:50

I was just wondering when pictures of you were all counselors and counselors.

M. Denys1:28:57

We do have some photos in our collections, from what I understand.

M. Denys1:29:01

One thing about being a community archives is that we don't always have a lot of corporate records, but it is certainly something that will be added to the site over time.

Ron Mattson1:29:11

Thank you.

Ron Mattson1:29:12

Okay.

David Screech1:29:13

What is the acronym?

David Screech1:29:14

Sorry, what is the acronym FONS?

David Screech1:29:17

Is that something that's okay?

M. Denys1:29:18

FONDS is actually not an acronym, but a term for a collection.

M. Denys1:29:23

It is a more traditional word that you might hear in other institutions that have, I dare say, grander collections of uh donation from somebody.

M. Denys1:29:35

It usually indicates an intact um uh unit of ephemera, letters, correspondence photos from an individual, uh usually someone well known.

M. Denys1:29:47

Uh we tend to have more along the lines of collections in the community archives because we get things still need piece by piece or a few photos here and there, or a few documents.

M. Denys1:29:58

It is not quite the same uh complete structure.

David Screech1:30:03

Thank you.

John Rogers1:30:05

Councillor Rogers.

John Rogers1:30:06

Yes, uh, thank you very much.

John Rogers1:30:07

I've I've had a look at these uh in in some detail and some really nice pictures.

John Rogers1:30:13

Yeah, I noticed that the the images they have different file size.

John Rogers1:30:19

Can you couldn't scan them to one standard size?

M. Denys1:30:25

What we do is we generally when we begin the digitization, we do create an archival copy of the photo or a file of the photo and that would be in a TIFF format is a high resolution, high quality copy, but that one is reserved or preserved basically.

M. Denys1:30:41

It's not used again.

M. Denys1:30:43

The reason that we were using the lower um resolution or the lower uh I don't want to say quality, but the smaller photo sizes is to save storage space on our portion of the web server that we use.

M. Denys1:30:57

Because we're not sure what our end numbers will look like, we're being conservative to start the project.

M. Denys1:31:04

As we go through again, we can look in at increasing sizes.

M. Denys1:31:09

Sometimes we have to also take in copyright consideration or reproduction considerations as well for file size.

M. Denys1:31:16

We don't want people necessarily to be able to enlarge them to a size that's uh they can reproduce when uh the ownership or copyright isn't theirs.

M. Denys1:31:27

So there's a few considerations there for the file sizes.

John Rogers1:31:31

In in the in the future, it'd be very interesting to see if um there's some means we're inviting individuals that have seen a picture and can give some details, some uh additional perspective uh to that image.

M. Denys1:31:44

Yes, we always have a call out in our display case and online for people to contact us if they have any information.

M. Denys1:31:52

I collect anecdotal information from people all of the time.

M. Denys1:31:55

It goes into our reference material or I can add it to the descriptions when uh we know it relates to the particular photo.

John Rogers1:32:06

Okay.

John Rogers1:32:07

Uh you know you mentioned that other municipalities are using this uh application.

John Rogers1:32:12

Is there any hot link somewhere on this that I could go to see Victoria Rosanich?

M. Denys1:32:17

Uh there wouldn't be on our own website, but if you do go to the other municipal websites, they will have a link to their archives.

M. Denys1:32:24

They you will see that they have a slightly different interface because they have subscribed to a different level of package.

M. Denys1:32:29

There might be more imagery there.

M. Denys1:32:33

However, it is the same platform and they will have the same ability to search for photos, documents, information on their collections that they keep in-house.

John Rogers1:32:46

Yeah, it's it looks like a terrific advertisement, if you like, or an encouragement for individuals that have historical images, if you will, to uh dial up and and contact you.

John Rogers1:32:56

Well done.

John Rogers1:32:57

Thank you.

M. Denys1:32:57

Thank you.

Gery Lemon1:32:59

Okay.

Gery Lemon1:33:00

I have no more questions.

Gery Lemon1:33:01

I have no questions.

Gery Lemon1:33:04

Mary Squeez.

Gery Lemon1:33:05

Sorry.

Gery Lemon1:33:05

You've got smaller.

Gery Lemon1:33:07

Yes.

David Screech1:33:08

I don't have any more questions, but like you said earlier, I just want to thank Melanie for coming and doing into it.

David Screech1:33:13

It's wonderful to see it.

David Screech1:33:14

And I think for a small town, you know, we're we're streaks ahead in terms of what we're doing with archives and what's available to the public.

David Screech1:33:23

And it's um it's great to see you all around.

David Screech1:33:26

So thank you.

M. Denys1:33:27

Thank you very much.

M. Denys1:33:28

I know that the feedback that I've gotten from some residents uh that are interested in in the project, it's very exciting.

M. Denys1:33:35

B Royal is young in incorporation age, but we've been around a long time, so we have lots to offer.

Gery Lemon1:33:42

There you go.

Gery Lemon1:33:43

Thank you.

M. Denys1:33:44

Thank you very much.

Ron Mattson1:33:48

So cool feature of the airport here.

Gery Lemon1:33:50

But yeah, so it's um just five o'clock.

Gery Lemon1:33:55

This isn't.

Gery Lemon1:33:56

Is there anything from the evening agenda we want to take on?

Kim Anema1:33:59

So we need a motion to receive the CAO motion.

Kim Anema1:34:02

Second.

John Rogers1:34:03

Right, thank you.

John Rogers1:34:04

Thank you very much.

John Rogers1:34:05

Can we do the council meeting?

John Rogers1:34:07

There's a council agenda.

John Rogers1:34:08

Are we able to take care of that now?

Gery Lemon1:34:12

Oh, could we do this special council meeting now?

Kim Anema1:34:15

It is scheduled for seven o'clock.

Kim Anema1:34:17

Is it okay?

Gery Lemon1:34:19

Yeah, well, it's okay.

Gery Lemon1:34:20

Okay, all right.

Gery Lemon1:34:21

Well you're gonna have a long dinner, people.

Gery Lemon1:34:26

Thank you, everyone.

Gery Lemon1:34:27

We'll be back at seven.

Gery Lemon1:34:30

Thank you very much.

Gery Lemon1:34:31

Now we're gonna move back into the committee of the whole meeting and beginning the evening session.

Gery Lemon1:34:39

And I'll just find that in my package here.

Gery Lemon1:34:44

Petitions and delegations.

Gery Lemon1:34:51

We we have no petitions and delegations, but we do have public participation.

Gery Lemon1:34:57

So people in the room, I know, would like to speak.

Gery Lemon1:35:01

When you come come to the mic, gentlemen, just please give it your name and your address.

Gery Lemon1:35:07

And uh the floor is yours.

Louise Baur1:35:11

Thank you.

Louise Baur1:35:12

My name's uh Colin Bauer, and I live at uh 306 mile road.

Louise Baur1:35:18

Okay, and many of you I know, some for a long time.

Louise Baur1:35:23

So uh I've been resident in View Royale for, I guess, going on close to 70 years now, and uh my mother and father have been active members in View Royal.

Louise Baur1:35:33

My mother in her mid-90s still wobbles to the archives when she can.

Louise Baur1:35:39

And my father was involved with Marjorie in the beginning when things were just being established.

Louise Baur1:35:44

And in fact, there's a little park off Stanzel Lane named after my father, Joe.

Louise Baur1:35:49

So I'm here because I think I might have wasted council's time, and I didn't want to do that.

Louise Baur1:35:56

So I'll be really brief and I'll explain what I mean.

Louise Baur1:35:58

I know you have a lot of important things to do, and uh I might have inadvertently wasted your time.

Louise Baur1:36:04

So I live in a 35-unit strata complex.

Louise Baur1:36:08

Uh it's called Royal View.

Louise Baur1:36:11

I don't know where the imagination for the name came out, but it's Royal View Estates, right across from the Six Mile Pub on Six Mile Road.

Louise Baur1:36:19

It's a great mixture of families and older people in there.

Louise Baur1:36:24

There's a park that butts right up to the complex.

Louise Baur1:36:28

Now, this is an open park called Jalen Park.

Louise Baur1:36:31

There are no fences in this park.

Louise Baur1:36:33

It's open at the front and it's open at the sides, and the neighbors on either side have open access.

Louise Baur1:36:38

And in fact, if you go there, you'll see they've incorporated this park into their backyards, which seems like a reasonable thing to do.

Louise Baur1:36:46

So they have unrestricted access.

Louise Baur1:36:48

There is a fence between the complex that I live in, the townhouse complex, and the park.

Louise Baur1:36:55

It's a large chain link fence, and I'd like to make access through that fence into the park.

Louise Baur1:37:03

So I contacted council in a letter on April 1st, and I said, I believe the fence is the property of View Royal Town, and I'm seeking permission to put a gate in there.

Louise Baur1:37:16

I've since learned the fence belongs to the strata.

Louise Baur1:37:19

It does not belong to the council.

Louise Baur1:37:22

So in fact, there's no need to seek permission.

Louise Baur1:37:26

So that's where I maybe I should have done my homework in the first place.

Louise Baur1:37:29

There's no need to seek permission to put a gate in there.

Louise Baur1:37:33

The town requested that the engineering department looked into the matter and stated on page six in the engineering report that municipal policies do not prohibit private access to parks.

Louise Baur1:37:46

There's nothing in place right now preventing someone to from a private property to access into a park.

Louise Baur1:37:53

Now, in that report, they recommend maybe council should address that in the future, but at this point in time, there's nothing that says people can't do that.

Louise Baur1:38:02

So if you can read, if you read the report, you'll see that the recommendation is to deny access.

Louise Baur1:38:07

I think it's a moot point from what I've just said.

Louise Baur1:38:10

There's no rules in place to prevent it, and we own the fence.

Louise Baur1:38:14

So there are some mistakes in that report, and we don't have to go into a lot of them, but I think the main one would be that the access point to the park that the engineering department put in the report is the wrong access point.

Louise Baur1:38:28

It's not the point that we wanted.

Louise Baur1:38:29

One of their concerns was it's too steep, we'll have to do a lot of work.

Louise Baur1:38:34

We didn't choose that point because it was too steep.

Louise Baur1:38:37

So we have a flat level access point, not the one listed in the report and pictured in the engineering report.

Louise Baur1:38:45

That's a mistake.

Louise Baur1:38:46

I think maybe in the future they might like to uh we might suggest that they talk to people involved if they can talk about those things.

Louise Baur1:38:54

So there, these are the mistakes.

Louise Baur1:38:56

We don't have to go over those.

Louise Baur1:38:57

The other one was they they suggested an alternate access route into the park.

Louise Baur1:39:02

There's a 15 foot high concrete wall.

Louise Baur1:39:05

It's impossible.

Louise Baur1:39:06

I don't know how they could suggest that, but that's impossible.

Louise Baur1:39:10

But those are all uh points that we could talk about so at another time if you want.

Louise Baur1:39:15

But just to conclude, given that the fence belongs to the strata, and that there's no policy, no directive, no bylaw uh preventing private access to town parks, permission, which I sought to alter the fence is really not needed.

Louise Baur1:39:32

So that's why I think I might have wasted time.

Louise Baur1:39:35

Maybe I should have done my homework beforehand.

Louise Baur1:39:37

So thank you.

Gery Lemon1:39:38

Mr.

Gery Lemon1:39:39

Bauer, thank you very much.

Gery Lemon1:39:40

We there was actually a picture of your dad uh in an earlier session this evening that was brought up on the screen there.

Gery Lemon1:39:45

That's why I'm posting when there was a discussion about a presentation about the archives.

Louise Baur1:39:50

Oh, interesting.

Gery Lemon1:39:51

I'll look at that.

Louise Baur1:39:52

Thank you.

Gery Lemon1:39:52

Um, did any questions on Mr.

Gery Lemon1:39:54

Bauer?

Gery Lemon1:39:55

Don't leave yet, sir.

John Rogers1:39:56

Yes, if thank you.

John Rogers1:39:57

Um, so Mr.

John Rogers1:39:58

Bardi, um, is has the strata um strata council come in support of of this uh access to the park?

Louise Baur1:40:07

We haven't canvassed the people in the strata yet.

John Rogers1:40:09

Okay.

Louise Baur1:40:09

So this would not be a strata initiative, this would be a private residence initiative.

Louise Baur1:40:15

Everybody chip in some money if they want it, if the most people if the majority don't want it, of course we won't do it.

John Rogers1:40:21

I see.

John Rogers1:40:21

So um and I I'm wondering about um because there have in the staff report there was um uh a letter, I think back in 2019, of a complaint where individuals were coming from the park into your private strata on the strata road.

John Rogers1:40:39

Um, how do you think that that uh if there were the access, that that um wouldn't that be a conflict and and possibility of people trespassing in your property?

Louise Baur1:40:48

It's a good point.

Louise Baur1:40:49

Uh thanks for reminding me of that, John.

Louise Baur1:40:51

I was going to mention that.

Louise Baur1:40:52

We've now gated, we have a locked gate at the entrance point.

Louise Baur1:40:56

That's there's a path down towards uh where the tire shop is, you know, down the path back of the path there.

Louise Baur1:41:03

And we've put a lock on that gate now.

John Rogers1:41:06

Right.

John Rogers1:41:06

Sorry, I'm I'm not referring to the access down to Island Highway.

John Rogers1:41:10

I'm saying, you know, if if you're looking to have access into Jalen Park, um, we had a uh a letter of concern where people were coming from Jalen, you know, I don't think the fence was there at the time, uh, and then down your strata or vice versa.

John Rogers1:41:27

Um, do you think that that would be a tempting issue where you would have people trespass?

Louise Baur1:41:33

No.

Louise Baur1:41:33

And the reason is one, I have a view of that entrance to the park from my front window, and I see two teenagers lift up the fence to scoot under.

Louise Baur1:41:42

That's all I've seen.

Louise Baur1:41:43

I'm not saying it's not a concern to some people.

Louise Baur1:41:46

I don't see it as a concern.

Louise Baur1:41:47

But more importantly, we are going to put a locked gate.

Louise Baur1:41:52

So we'll have the access code to get through the gate to the property.

John Rogers1:41:57

And appropriate signage.

John Rogers1:41:59

Pardon?

John Rogers1:42:00

And signage to indicating it's private access?

Louise Baur1:42:03

Yeah, yeah.

Louise Baur1:42:04

Well, one of the original plans was to take out that whole big section of fence and then make the whole park open because it's open now, it's open to the neighbors.

Louise Baur1:42:13

They all have free access.

Louise Baur1:42:14

In fact, they built little paths going to the park from their property.

Louise Baur1:42:17

It's nice.

Louise Baur1:42:19

So I don't think it's makes sense to have one part of it blocked up.

Louise Baur1:42:24

If council was, you could maybe extrapolate and say if council was to say no, you can't put a fence up there, then it would be logical to think council would put a fence down either side, then.

Louise Baur1:42:34

That's an expensive proposition.

Louise Baur1:42:36

Okay.

Louise Baur1:42:37

Yeah.

Louise Baur1:42:38

Thank you.

Ron Mattson1:42:39

Yeah, thanks.

Ron Mattson1:42:40

So so just for clarification and so because when we discuss it later, it's your understanding that's uh the stratus fence and whatever the decision is about the fence is really outside of the town's purview, and you can do as you wish, basically.

Ron Mattson1:42:56

Yeah, I wouldn't sort of, I'm saying just not in a very nice way.

Ron Mattson1:42:59

Yeah, I don't think council needs to waste time on it.

Ron Mattson1:43:01

You've you've told us that your fence, you can do with it as you wish.

Louise Baur1:43:06

Of course, we'll work with council.

Louise Baur1:43:07

If it's there, you know, it's the town park, and we'll talk about upkeep and cleaning and whatever and all those other things.

Louise Baur1:43:13

But yeah, I don't think it's necessary.

Louise Baur1:43:15

I don't think there's anything in the bylaw to prevent it, and it's our fence.

Louise Baur1:43:20

So I maybe should have looked into that beforehand.

Louise Baur1:43:23

Okay, thank you.

Gery Lemon1:43:24

Thank you, Mr.

Gery Lemon1:43:25

Bauer.

Gery Lemon1:43:25

I think our our meeting just got a bit shorter.

Gery Lemon1:43:30

Anyone else here to speak at the mic at the podium?

Gery Lemon1:43:38

No.

Gery Lemon1:43:39

No.

Gery Lemon1:43:40

All right.

Gery Lemon1:43:41

Step staff, do we have any callers online to speak for this part of the meeting?

Gery Lemon1:43:44

Speak to this part of the meeting?

Damian Kowalewich1:43:47

We have no colours at this time, Chair.

Gery Lemon1:43:49

Okay, thank you very much.

Gery Lemon1:43:52

Okay, so um I guess we just skip right over this first processing.

Ron Mattson1:44:03

Pass it on to that gentleman.

Ron Mattson1:44:06

Marks.

Gery Lemon1:44:08

Oh.

Ron Mattson1:44:09

Oh, your part, sorry.

Gery Lemon1:44:11

Yes.

Gery Lemon1:44:12

Thank you.

Ron Mattson1:44:13

Thank you.

Ron Mattson1:44:13

We'll give you a sure.

Ron Mattson1:44:16

You know, you're really getting out of control.

Gery Lemon1:44:18

I give everybody to take over.

Gery Lemon1:44:21

She's doing a great job.

John Rogers1:44:24

Okay.

John Rogers1:44:25

Thank you, everybody.

John Rogers1:44:27

Um, so we're in uh under the parks and recreation environment.

John Rogers1:44:29

I don't have a chair's report, but we can go straight into staff's report, please, which is the request for access to Jalen Park.

Ivan Leung1:44:41

Thank you, Chair and members of members of council, Acting Mayor Lemon and Mayor Screech.

Ivan Leung1:44:47

Uh yeah, so this is a report for the 306-mile road request for access to Jalen Park.

Ivan Leung1:44:53

Um and thank you for that clarification there, Mr.

Ivan Leung1:44:55

Bauer.

Ivan Leung1:44:56

Um, as previously mentioned, uh the recommendation for this is to deny 306-mile roads request for private access to Jellham Park, and that's the town of Euro update the update or the existing parks fencing policy, uh which was created in 1989, amended last in 2002.

Ivan Leung1:45:14

So this report has two purposes.

Ivan Leung1:45:17

One is to provide the committee with background on the town of Uroyal's policy regarding access to and from private properties within the town's parks, and to seek the committee input on policy directions.

Ivan Leung1:45:28

And the second thing is to seek input from the committee on response to the current request for direct access.

Ivan Leung1:45:34

So a little bit of background on this.

Ivan Leung1:45:36

Um I think Mr.

Ivan Leung1:45:38

Bowers alluded to it before.

Ivan Leung1:45:40

Um, there was request to install control gate, so a local gate uh that's bordering between the strata and the park, and it's currently um fenced off along that area where the retaining wall is, and it is indeed not fenced off in the neighboring properties.

Ivan Leung1:45:58

Uh, we did take a look at some site visits there and did chat with some users.

Ivan Leung1:46:04

Although it wasn't visibly seen to have any accesses there, like it's shown in this report.

Ivan Leung1:46:09

I do respect and appreciate that, given that you live there, that you may have seen other things as well.

Ivan Leung1:46:14

So I do appreciate that.

Ivan Leung1:46:16

Um Jellham Parks located at the end of uh the the cul-de-sac is a dead end road that's accessed by six-mile road.

Ivan Leung1:46:23

Uh, if you look down on it from the top, it's uh you get access it through a dirt path, and then looking down you have a nice view of the Squamall Harbor.

Ivan Leung1:46:31

Um the town's current fencing policy doesn't necessarily allude to uh creating access to parks.

Ivan Leung1:46:41

It's actually the LBR around.

Ivan Leung1:46:42

It was created to prevent access for such issues like trespassing.

Ivan Leung1:46:48

So in the policy, it states that it's to implement the requirement for fencing to be installed in situations where new park land is being dedicated to the town, and to provide a mechanism for considering the installation of fencing by the town along boundaries of the parks and associated walkways where adjacent property owners are experiencing trespass issues.

Ivan Leung1:47:10

We canvassed the other neighboring municipalities to see what they did as uh for when there's requests for private access to parks.

Ivan Leung1:47:20

Uh, we've canvassed City of Victoria, uh District Stanich, and the town of the Squai Malt.

Ivan Leung1:47:25

And their response is quite similar to what the town does right now.

Ivan Leung1:47:29

There actually is no policy with respect to allowing access.

Ivan Leung1:47:35

A lot of it actually has to do with preventing as well.

Ivan Leung1:47:38

Um, so how they deal with it in that case is similar similar to what we did before, is done on a case-by-case basis.

Ivan Leung1:47:46

Uh, basically, they look at past history and they look at uh any surrounding issues that's happened in the past.

Ivan Leung1:47:54

Um from a town's previous dealings with these requests, there's three things that came up.

Ivan Leung1:48:04

Um the first thing with access is that it does provide or does cause additional maintenance work uh by the unexpected creation of the path.

Ivan Leung1:48:12

So the more people that use this path, the more erosion that happens within our grassed areas and it causes some maintenance issues.

Ivan Leung1:48:19

Additional maintenance work is also caused by the easier access for the dumping of yard waste.

Ivan Leung1:48:25

And after chatting with park staff, that's an occurrence here within the town.

Ivan Leung1:48:45

So as a result, the town engineering department has recommended to deny access here and also to consider updating the policy to bring up to today's standards and seeing what we could do to address future requests.

Ron Mattson1:49:09

So staff have in terms of the fence, if it's not the town's fence, then does the town have any other interests or uh authority to stop the owners of the fence from putting a gate a gate in or just taking out a piece?

Ron Mattson1:49:31

My assumption is no, but I'll just ask for clarification.

Ivan Leung1:49:34

Yeah, we we actually asked that exact question to the other municipalities of if the fence is not owned by the city or the town, what um what decisions can be made with respect to prevention.

Ivan Leung1:49:47

And uh the response was that there is no jurisdiction when it comes or decisions that the city can or the town can make.

Ivan Leung1:49:54

Um however, what happens is that it is dealt on a case-by-case basis, and if future complaints occur, then it is dealt with directly with the private property owner at that time.

John Rogers1:50:04

Okay, thanks.

John Rogers1:50:06

Any questions?

John Rogers1:50:07

Uh James?

Gery Lemon1:50:09

No, that that answered the question I would have had.

John Rogers1:50:11

Okay.

John Rogers1:50:15

Any questions?

John Rogers1:50:17

Okay.

John Rogers1:50:18

Uh a couple of questions from me.

John Rogers1:50:20

Um, clearly, um, you know, where there was in the report a suggestion there was an unalternate access, um, that's not really the case.

John Rogers1:50:28

Uh we got a 15-foot wall, you know, that uh so there's there's no way of being able to go around other than down six mile and back up and around.

Ivan Leung1:50:37

Yeah, that's a good question, counselor.

Ivan Leung1:50:39

And the when we when staff looked at the lot plan, it was noticed that there was indeed a sliver of land that goes on to Damon Drive, which is 85 meters away from the original entrance of the park.

Ivan Leung1:50:54

So it was more of an option for the strata to consider, and also at the same time, it doesn't create this precedent setting of direct access into the park.

John Rogers1:51:06

Yes, um, unfortunately, you know, that's impossible because that means they have to trespass on other private property to you know to get up to that point, you know, if you went up and around the long way.

John Rogers1:51:17

I guess the other question is this fence serves a purpose for the park because it is along an edge.

John Rogers1:51:26

And if there wasn't the fence, then people using the park in the dark or whatever could fall off the cliff and end up strata.

John Rogers1:51:34

So the fence does provide a safety uh factor for park users.

Ivan Leung1:51:39

That is correct.

Ivan Leung1:51:40

Uh looking at the fence itself and looking at the uh actually the fence um on either side of the park, it looks rather uniform.

Ivan Leung1:51:49

So it looks like it was installed as part of the development and not a special fence for the park.

John Rogers1:51:55

Yeah, it and it is interesting because I I this whole thing made me go around to look at other parks, and I was surprised to see how many gates there are.

John Rogers1:52:07

Private gates in their fences into the parks.

John Rogers1:52:11

And whether people done that uh of their own volition or through consent.

John Rogers1:52:15

But I think um, you know, the the wording of uh of our town policies on a case by case basis.

John Rogers1:52:22

Um and you know, I agree with precedence.

John Rogers1:52:25

I'm always concerned about precedence.

John Rogers1:52:27

One of the things is that we have a development that's uh just been approved in for Porter's Park, six-story complex, and their drawing showed um a gated access directly into the park.

John Rogers1:52:40

So I I think it's um you know we've got and we have approved um accesses from stratus around Eagle Creek.

John Rogers1:52:50

If the um if the applicants are willing to assume liability, repair the fence, create a stone um or uh a stairs and a railing, and all that's their root their uh um liability.

John Rogers1:53:08

Do you think that might be grounds for considering on a case by case basis?

Ivan Leung1:53:13

I think what what would be recommended would be to update the policy to put those measures and put the writing in that document so that when requests come in that there is an underlying set of requirements that's both parties, being the town and the requester, have to agree on, such as safety, um prevention of slip trips and falls, for example, um being one of them.

Ivan Leung1:53:39

And just to uh kind of respond to your your your first uh question, we it we did look at developments and access uh from other municipalities.

Ivan Leung1:53:51

A lot of municipalities they do act in favor of uh access to the park if it serves the community.

Ivan Leung1:53:57

So, what I mean by that is if there is a measure for a statutory right-of-way or equivalent for uh having public access through a private property, so that it's not just the strata that enjoys this access, it's the public.

John Rogers1:54:10

Interesting.

John Rogers1:54:12

Okay, thank you.

John Rogers1:54:13

Okay.

Ron Mattson1:54:14

Yes.

Ron Mattson1:54:15

Cadet to move that we receive the report, continue to look at uh requests for access on a on an individual basis every time they come up, and to advise the I guess Mr.

Ron Mattson1:54:29

Bauer, whoever wrote the letter, that uh since it's not our fence, it's not our jurisdiction, and they can do with their fence as they wish.

Ron Mattson1:54:38

Hmm.

Gery Lemon1:54:40

So um I I would be prepared to second if I understood the second part of that.

Ron Mattson1:54:47

Which part?

Ron Mattson1:54:48

Um well in the future.

Ron Mattson1:54:50

The second part was: should there be a request somewhere to have a to look at an access on a fence from you know onto a property if it's the town's fence, we'd look on that and uh on an individual basis on that on that basis as opposed to uh setting a more specific broad policy.

John Rogers1:55:09

Okay, on a case-by-case basis.

John Rogers1:55:12

So as is right now, the way it is now.

John Rogers1:55:15

Okay, I could second that for discussion.

John Rogers1:55:18

Sure, yeah.

John Rogers1:55:19

Um okay, discussion.

Ron Mattson1:55:22

As it was pointed out, it's not our fence.

Ron Mattson1:55:24

So if they wanted to tear the whole thing down, the town might have to put up a fence for safety reasons, but it's it's their fence, they can do with it as they wish.

Speaker_Unknown1:55:33

Right.

Ron Mattson1:55:33

So that includes putting up a gate with or with or or cutting a hole in it.

Ron Mattson1:55:39

So again, nothing to do with the town.

Ron Mattson1:55:42

And the other part is we have a policy now that says we do it on a case by case basis so that's I just wish we could you know just want us to continue that and we should just simply um you know advise them that it's not our it's it's not our jurisdiction they can do as they as they had suggested well no I'll I I seconded it I I should say something and I I agree that in this case, it it's not it it's not our fence, therefore we're not going to concern ourselves with this fence.

Gery Lemon1:56:25

Um but when you say that a fence could be built um any way they like um and and have openings anyway anywhere they like with into a park, I think that maybe is a little bit too wide open.

Ron Mattson1:56:43

So just for clarification, if somebody has a fence on their property, if they want to put a whole bunch of gates on that fence, that's like it's got nothing to do with the town.

Ron Mattson1:56:53

It's their fence on their responsibility as long as this meets the height bylaws in terms of you know whether it's beside a park or not.

Ron Mattson1:57:01

If the town doesn't like it, we could build our own fence on town property.

Ron Mattson1:57:06

They've got a fence on their property.

Gery Lemon1:57:07

True enough.

Gery Lemon1:57:08

Yeah, okay.

Ron Mattson1:57:09

Okay.

Gery Lemon1:57:09

I will up.

Ron Mattson1:57:10

Just for clarification.

Gery Lemon1:57:11

Yeah, no, I no, I appreciate that.

Ron Mattson1:57:13

David's looking pained over there.

John Rogers1:57:14

Yeah, we're good to go.

David Screech1:57:20

I I just don't know why we're making this so complicated.

David Screech1:57:23

Why aren't we just receiving the report?

David Screech1:57:26

Wait, we we don't need to do anything.

David Screech1:57:28

It's been pointed out that the fence isn't ours.

David Screech1:57:31

So why are we explicitly saying it's your fence, do what you like?

David Screech1:57:35

We we don't need to, and it sounds like we're we're authorizing it.

David Screech1:57:40

So I'm I'm not sure on that.

David Screech1:57:42

I I I don't agree I don't agree that this isn't something that should be discussed.

David Screech1:57:51

Um, the idea of just um you know private entrances into our parks.

David Screech1:57:56

Um but regardless of that, I'm also how are we so completely sure that this fence is not on town property?

Ivan Leung1:58:06

Do we know that conclusively it hasn't been looked at in terms of where it is with respect to the property line?

John Rogers1:58:15

Yeah.

John Rogers1:58:15

I think that the fact is, you worship, is that the the uh strata installed the fence, but you're right, it could be on town on the park property.

David Screech1:58:22

But I I don't know why we're just not receiving, I don't think we need to say all the other things.

David Screech1:58:27

They're kind of implicit if it's their fence.

David Screech1:58:31

Anyhow, that's my thoughts.

John Rogers1:58:33

Thank you.

John Rogers1:58:35

Counselor.

Damian Kowalewich1:58:36

Yeah, I was I was just gonna be along the same lines of counselor Matts and uh I don't think we need to get into the business of people's fences uh on their own property and and what they do with them.

Damian Kowalewich1:58:47

Uh unless there's some inherent risk that's involved of uh liability for the town, uh they can have as many gates as they want.

Ron Mattson1:58:56

Just and I'm happy to just make a motion to receive, but I thought it was important that we get the message that it's up to the if they're fence, but Sean at this point in time, I I think the message has been made.

Ron Mattson1:59:08

Yeah, Kim.

Kim Anema1:59:10

Thank you.

Kim Anema1:59:11

Um for neighbors in the situation, and generally speaking, when neighbors talk about fences, they have dialogue before they make significant changes.

Kim Anema1:59:20

And I think that's probably the spirit of the letter that was first written to us.

Kim Anema1:59:25

And rather than just cart blanch and do what you want, I would prefer that we have some dialogue between staff and our neighbors and agree on what can be done and what cannot be done.

Kim Anema1:59:35

And I agree with uh his worship mayor screech.

Kim Anema1:59:39

Um a motion to receive would be appropriate.

John Rogers1:59:43

Um well, I I guess it's um I'm I have a concern that um frankly staff will prevent this action.

John Rogers1:59:53

And um and I don't think that that is a reasonable course if um if the town's requirements of safety is met and that the liability and access is um is carried by the strata, they do all the improvements based on uh suggestions, recommendations by staff, but I would not want to hear that staff said no, you're not gonna do it.

John Rogers2:00:22

That's that would be my concern.

John Rogers2:00:24

Um it if we're saying it is their fence, then I would hope the staff would work for them and make it the best possible access, so because they have no other means of accessing this this incredible park.

John Rogers2:00:40

So I'm hoping, and you see, that's that's my worry that, and and I guess if um uh you know, by by receiving it, it's it's on a case by case basis.

John Rogers2:00:51

We should be giving some guidance uh to to staff on this.

John Rogers2:00:54

Is if we say that it's their fence, um so we have a motion.

Ron Mattson2:01:01

Let's vote on the motion and we can just figure out what to do afterwards.

John Rogers2:01:05

Okay.

John Rogers2:01:06

This may be coming back.

John Rogers2:01:08

All right, there's a motion on the floor.

John Rogers2:01:11

All those in favor?

John Rogers2:01:14

Against.

David Screech2:01:15

I'm opposed.

Gery Lemon2:01:17

I am having heard the others, the other way of going here.

Gery Lemon2:01:23

Yeah, based on based on the CAO's recommendation.

John Rogers2:01:28

Yeah, yeah, I'm I'm opposed to because I think the um moving receipt means uh doing nothing, and um I don't think it's so that wasn't that wasn't the that wasn't the motion.

Ron Mattson2:01:38

Uh the motion was keep with the current policy, advise them that it's their fence, and work with the town.

John Rogers2:01:44

Okay, that's clarification then.

John Rogers2:01:49

Um so um I'm in favor of that.

John Rogers2:01:50

That works.

David Screech2:01:51

So chair, maybe you should get staff to actually read back the motion that's on the floor, please.

David Screech2:01:59

Because that wasn't my understanding of the motion.

John Rogers2:02:04

Okay.

Sarah Jones2:02:07

Thank you.

Sarah Jones2:02:08

Receive and keep looking for means for access when these come up in the future, which is basically to uh look at things on a case-by-case basis and do with the fence what you want.

David Screech2:02:22

So that's just if I can just speak to that.

David Screech2:02:24

I I mean that was what was said, and that's why I'm objecting to it.

David Screech2:02:28

I mean, how can we say to any property owner, as Kim tried to politely point out, do with your fence whatever you want when it borders our property that we're the stewards of and we're responsible for?

David Screech2:02:43

So drop that.

David Screech2:02:44

If counselor Matson would like to take an amendment to drop that part, um, you know, to receive and to continue to evaluate on a case-by-case basis, then that's all we need to do and communicate with the town.

Ron Mattson2:03:00

And I'm happy with that because the understate that the other part of this is it's their fence.

Gery Lemon2:03:08

Okay, so is that a new motion?

John Rogers2:03:11

Well, well, I just moving my my I again um my concern is that by simply moving the seat um then um I do not think that the uh the wishes of the strata are going to be met.

John Rogers2:03:28

Then we're not gonna work with them to to gain access to that park.

David Screech2:03:32

Now well I think that you know I think it's unfortunate that you feel that because I feel that council's intentions are clear and I feel the staff would take that up.

John Rogers2:03:43

Um but yeah, so uh good, let me just clarify council's intentions of that staff would work with the um uh the the strata to uh get access that's reasonable for all.

Gery Lemon2:03:54

Yes, and I think we heard that from the CIO.

John Rogers2:03:56

Then that if that's what I'm hearing.

Ron Mattson2:03:58

Well, I you know, I I don't if the fence is on my property, I'll tell my neighbor, look, I'd like to put a gate here.

Ron Mattson2:04:06

And if they object strenuously, and I say, well, too bad it's my fence, I'm still gonna put a gate here.

Ron Mattson2:04:13

But I guess the intent is for this that uh you'll talk to staff and they'll they'll agree and all will be happy.

Ron Mattson2:04:22

But if that doesn't happen, let us know.

John Rogers2:04:26

Okay, I'll call the question.

Ron Mattson2:04:28

Okay.

Damian Kowalewich2:04:28

Is this the the old motion still?

Damian Kowalewich2:04:32

I don't know what it is we gonna we can have is uh councilor mouse is gonna amend that.

Ron Mattson2:04:36

I was gonna amend it to remove line.

Ron Mattson2:04:38

Remove the part about the the mentioning the fence.

Ron Mattson2:04:42

It's perceived, and we'll continue on with our current policy okay okay current policy okay okay motions of the floor all those in favor against carried so you might want to ask them if they're gonna happen thank you chair okay thank you I might just have to get my screen back on we're do you you're happy yeah okay okay thank you uh council matsen I'll hand the chair over to you thank you uh the first item is I have nothing under uh chair's report.

Ron Mattson2:05:29

And we have the environmental DP number 202204-53 Knollwood Road, and staff has a presentation.

Jeff Chow2:05:40

Thank you, Chair.

Jeff Chow2:05:41

Jeff Chauncey, your planner.

Jeff Chow2:05:42

This is a development permit application for 53 Knollwood Road.

Jeff Chow2:05:46

This is a development permit is to proposal is to install retaining walls and landscape and to stabilize a slope that's within the natural water course and shoreline development permit area.

Jeff Chow2:06:00

Also application includes a request for increased height two retaining walls.

Jeff Chow2:06:10

All right.

Jeff Chow2:06:13

As you can see there, a photo, the properties uh detached dwelling residential property on Price Bay, which is part of uh part of Sclimwald Harbor.

Jeff Chow2:06:24

Uh, there's a steep slope that runs down to the water.

Jeff Chow2:06:26

And this photo from the biologist report shows the uh the steepness of that that uh that site.

Jeff Chow2:06:33

And what happened was in uh the previous property owner in the early 1990s installed uh a series of retaining walls, and uh in 1995, those retaining walls and a bunch of land, and the two trees shown there slipped down the slope about two meters.

Jeff Chow2:06:50

Um, as a result, uh you know, many years later, the current property owner is now taking uh the initiative to remediate the uh the slope.

Jeff Chow2:07:03

What they propose to do is to install a series of Gabean uh retaining walls on the site to stabilize the slope.

Jeff Chow2:07:10

Um Gabeans are basically a metal cage that holds whole rock and soil, so it's kind of like a more kind of um a more natural type of retaining wall.

Jeff Chow2:07:20

Um I should note that this uh so this plan shows three levels of walls going all the way down to the natural boundary.

Jeff Chow2:07:29

Um this is actually not uh the most current design.

Jeff Chow2:07:33

Uh there is a more current design that shows some additional walls at the um at the upper left of the site there where the near near the trees are removed, and that's because there's a height difference of um several meters there.

Jeff Chow2:07:46

So there's another two courses of smaller retaining walls at the near the top of the slope.

Jeff Chow2:07:53

As well, there would be in the corner, there will be a uh fewer retaining walls along the along the seashore uh because there's an area where natural bedrock is actually stable enough that that the Gabeans are not required in that that uh location.

Jeff Chow2:08:09

So when it comes to council, we'll have the most uh current site plan.

Jeff Chow2:08:14

This plan shows uh a series of steps as well that is integrated into the Gabian walls, and the Gabian walls would be um planted with soil and include soil, include natural vegetation so to soften the edge of those retaining walls.

Jeff Chow2:08:33

This is a cross section that shows how the Gabian walls are made.

Jeff Chow2:08:55

But what would happen is the plants and the would be integrated into the into the Gabian walls to help stabilize the slope uh to to resist uh sea level rise as well.

Jeff Chow2:09:07

The other thing that to note that this is a slope that does still have some movement in it, and the Gabian walls have some flexibility that a rigid retaining wall um doesn't so for those reasons um this proposal to have retaining walls up to two meters tall can be supported uh the biologist includes a number of recommendations to be included into the development permit uh uh we're uh the work has to be done between July and October because that's the uh that's the fisheries window.

Jeff Chow2:09:40

Uh work is done to minimize impact on the shoreline.

Jeff Chow2:09:44

Um there are no uh permanent structures and land alteration proposed below the natural boundary.

Jeff Chow2:09:50

And there is some um some vegetation on the west end of the shoreline that will be protected during the construction.

Jeff Chow2:10:00

In analyzing how it complies with the development permit area guidelines, the main benefit here is that they would be providing more extensive natural native plant species.

Jeff Chow2:10:15

And you can see in the photo it's mostly grass.

Jeff Chow2:10:18

So the proposal is for 85% of the development hermit area to be to be planted with native species.

Jeff Chow2:10:25

And this exceeds the guideline target for 50%.

Jeff Chow2:10:29

The works will also include native species removal and no negative impacts expected to the marine environment.

Jeff Chow2:10:36

And although Debian walls are typically a wall, we prefer kind of greener, softer methods, but given the steepness of the site uh uh the biologist and the genotechnical engineer agree that this is the least invasive approach to the site so next steps is um is because there's a variance requested um uh notification will have to be have to be conducted before a council meeting to consider it um there's some additional information provided basically is having a clearer set of landscape plans so we know exactly what's being planted and the landscape cost estimate for those for that planting uh the recommendation is to receive the report.

Ron Mattson2:11:15

And the applicant is here if there's any questions I have a question so if you go back to that first picture the all the grasses and greenery.

Ron Mattson2:11:27

So when I just have a quick look at this, I have I haven't been on site.

Ron Mattson2:11:31

I mean, it looks like a pretty environmentally fine site.

Ron Mattson2:11:36

So I'm just thinking, what happens if we don't allow this?

Ron Mattson2:11:39

Like what are the negative consequences?

Doug Ko2:11:47

The site actually slid two years and it's still moving much more.

Jeff Chow2:11:51

Thank you.

Jeff Chow2:11:53

The site is still moving, but much more slower than it has in the past.

Jeff Chow2:11:57

Uh, but the two Douglas fir trees that are shown in that photo would would have to be removed, and that's because their root plates have been compromised.

Jeff Chow2:12:05

So they're actually in, although the trees are healthy, they're in danger of toppling over.

Jeff Chow2:12:09

Um, that slope will continue to slide if nothing is done.

Jeff Chow2:12:13

Okay, thank you.

Jeff Chow2:12:13

So, Jerry, you had a question yeah I do um thank you uh can you explain what a Gabian wall is oh please thank you um yeah food share uh basically there's not many of them around town but then there's actually one uh at the um at the EN trail crossing uh over island highway here and if you ever walk up that slope you'll see it basically there it's a it's a metal mesh and it's got little rocks inside of it.

Gery Lemon2:12:45

Okay, okay because a green wall.

Gery Lemon2:12:47

Got it.

Gery Lemon2:12:48

Okay, thank you very much um yeah that's good.

Gery Lemon2:12:53

I had another question, but I'll get to that okay to that.

Ron Mattson2:12:56

Okay, John.

Ron Mattson2:12:57

Thank you.

John Rogers2:12:57

Yeah, um I Steph, I'm I'm concerned about um um the whole I read the report and it seems like um this whole issue started about 95, 96.

John Rogers2:13:09

Um, but it seems to be around 2014 that the patio was built.

John Rogers2:13:15

Was there a um permit given for that?

John Rogers2:13:17

I cannot remember.

Jeff Chow2:13:19

Um through the chair, the geotech engineer uh report indicates that they actually provided specification for that wall.

John Rogers2:13:26

So the the so the patio was approved.

Speaker_Unknown2:13:29

Yeah.

Jeff Chow2:13:30

Yes, and that patio would remain and so there would be a game wall one level below it.

Jeff Chow2:13:34

Yeah.

John Rogers2:13:35

I I'm sorry, I didn't quite.

John Rogers2:13:36

So you're saying that count uh uh the town approved the patio that's within the uh setback.

Jeff Chow2:13:43

Uh I believe it's right on the edge.

Jeff Chow2:13:44

Uh if you look at the site plan, yeah.

Jeff Chow2:13:48

Uh it it has it is, yeah, it is it doesn't it does go into the uh development permit area.

John Rogers2:13:56

So that yeah, okay, because I cannot remember um uh that because anything that's built in the setback areas would have been um before council, and I cannot remember this this particular um being approved.

John Rogers2:14:08

And I guess my other concern was that um the slope issue slippage, has that resulted on either side of the adjoining properties, that slope failure?

Jeff Chow2:14:20

Uh through the chair, um the geotech report indicates that part of the reason for the slide was because the previous property owner had deposited fill on that slope to create level terraces.

John Rogers2:14:29

Yeah.

John Rogers2:14:31

Okay.

John Rogers2:14:31

So he dumped a bunch of fill on it and it fell down the slope.

John Rogers2:14:35

Right.

John Rogers2:14:35

That's right.

John Rogers2:14:37

You know, it's it is unfortunate because when you look at um you know the the aerial photograph of this site, you see the park, you see, you know, everything's really incredibly green on both sides with lots of trees, and um, and this is a barren landscape.

John Rogers2:14:52

Um so and I and again I'm I'm concerned about um as we go through this process, we're not rectifying um the other uh incursion on on uh and in the this natural 15-meter area of the the patio.

John Rogers2:15:08

Um I'm also uh a little concerned about having a stone wall, because we know hard walls, stone walls on the shoreline for the full length, is a barrier for animals and so forth.

John Rogers2:15:28

And I don't know if the the ocean levels are going through the seas um you know can can provide um you know aquatic environment for that shoreline along there.

John Rogers2:15:44

I have some concerns about um as well the the planting, some um um Douglas fir, cedars, you know, those you know, to to try to replicate the um uh the trees that are in the the adjoining park adjacent park is that a question yeah yeah i i just yeah i'm wondering if um you know when when uh the applicant um has we've seen the list of proposed trees like a dogwood or what is it um japanese maple that we couldn't I know we would go on our beauters but you know fir tree cedar trees something that's more natural to the environment and to to the joint adjacent uh parks yeah through the chair we'll we'll when the left more detailed landscape plans come in, we'll we'll have a look at that and and report back to council.

Jeff Chow2:16:34

There's a willow tree, which is non-native, but those are great for for stabilizing slopes, and that's that would be retained.

Jeff Chow2:16:41

And the other thing about those gabian walls would include um planting media so that they will be covered with plants over time.

Jeff Chow2:16:44

Also, the uh the biologist report is advocating for vegetation on the lowest seawall that would be suitable for the location.

Jeff Chow2:16:58

So things that can that can handle spray from the ocean and more kind of saline environments.

Ron Mattson2:17:04

Okay, thank you.

Jeff Chow2:17:05

So we'll see the details in the landscape plan.

Speaker_072:17:07

Uh Damien?

Speaker_Unknown2:17:09

No?

Speaker_072:17:10

David.

David Screech2:17:14

No, I'm I'm good.

David Screech2:17:15

Thank you, Ron.

Gery Lemon2:17:17

Okay, thanks.

Gery Lemon2:17:18

Jared, another question?

Gery Lemon2:17:19

Just making a bit of a leap here.

Gery Lemon2:17:21

And I gather there's a swimming pool proposed for the property.

Gery Lemon2:17:28

And would it be accurate to um think that without this modification, a swimming pool would be at risk and we'd have a bigger disaster on our hands.

Doug Ko2:17:46

Sure.

Doug Ko2:17:50

Good day, Chair, uh, Councilman, Mayor, and fellow staff.

Doug Ko2:17:54

My name's Doug Ko with At Echo Design.

Doug Ko2:17:57

I'm just assisting John and Echo with their coordination of the consulting team that we're putting together this plan to assist them uh we uh to re-stabilize the slope.

Doug Ko2:18:07

To answer your question, uh Chair, the intention of the re-sloping with or without a swimming pool, it should be done as the senior planner has indicated, ongoing slope, downwards movement has been indicated for almost two decades now.

Doug Ko2:18:25

The swimming pool being added is more as a feature for the landscaping that they will be doing in the backyard in the future, and that's outside of the DP zone.

Doug Ko2:18:36

The second thing the RISA, the geotechnical engineer has indicated is that there will be not be any in additional force pushing the geotechnical matter downward because they'll be using uh geo foam lightweight form basically to be put it in the back.

Doug Ko2:18:55

So the actual force on it, um, the intention to do this work is not to do with the swimming pool is more since we're doing all the work in the back there and we could make this a property landscape property down there and then enjoyable property that's a little bit more flat for other uses for the big family and that's the intention of this.

John Rogers2:19:18

Okay thank you very much can I again may I ask a question sure thank you so the wall that um the you're you're asking that the wall be um uh two meters as opposed to 1.2 meters high?

Doug Ko2:19:30

Yes, at the very bottom there, due to the slope and due to the drop the existing drop at the edge there, making this a more gentle slope per se, it will either progress down farther into the into the water, project more into the shoreline, which we're not allowed to do, or that will create a um a bigger pocket of rocks behind it, per se, just because of the way that the Gabian walls are created.

Doug Ko2:19:57

Okay.

John Rogers2:19:57

That's a reason to create a little bit more of a drop in that particular and and when um you put the seawall down yes um will you be putting some um some uh some natural material onto the shoreline for for um for wildlife for for fish or whatever?

Doug Ko2:20:16

Yes.

Doug Ko2:20:16

So all of the gabian walls initially they are using rocks inside the meadow cages to stabilize it and create that weight.

Doug Ko2:20:26

Afterwards there'll be filled with soil and then there'll be a natural planting basket.

Doug Ko2:20:31

I believe it was palm fiber that they're being used now so that they can slowly uh degrade and then they'll sprinkle with seeds so that natural flower or flower of native species could grow into it so that the entire, I guess we'll call it a rock wall, but in essence it's all the flowers roots will be growing into it so that when you locate it in the future, it will actually be a berm of sort instead of actual rocks.

John Rogers2:20:59

And so um if I may suggest you if you go to um and we can go to Shoreline Drive, we put in a dock there and we have biologists work, marine biologists work with us on the materials that we had to put on the ocean on the on the shore.

John Rogers2:21:14

Yes, so that that might be also something worth considering.

John Rogers2:21:17

My my other question to you, when we you want to have the wall two meters high, how deep, how deep does this wall have to go into the ground that you know is it it's six feet wall that gets covered?

Doug Ko2:21:28

Covered I'm just gonna come up to it.

Doug Ko2:21:32

The intention is just to come right through the shore where it is and rest it right there.

Doug Ko2:21:36

We don't intend to take the wall into it.

John Rogers2:21:39

And you don't need to so in and so consequently you don't need to dig into the next one or the next one?

Doug Ko2:21:45

The intention is not to dig to any more than we have to on it.

John Rogers2:21:50

Okay.

Doug Ko2:21:50

Imagine how deep this is.

Doug Ko2:21:52

If we dig any module, the actual weight or the way that the uh the design is, it will push itself.

Doug Ko2:22:00

So the geotechnical engineer designed it in a way that to use as few rocks as possible, but to create a properly stabilized slope.

John Rogers2:22:09

And then the rocks will become a weight that pushes it down.

Doug Ko2:22:11

That's right.

Ron Mattson2:22:13

So John, I'm sure staff will be able to come up with the appropriate.

Ron Mattson2:22:18

Yeah, I need to 19 that at the shoreline.

Ron Mattson2:22:21

Thank you for your help.

Ron Mattson2:22:23

Thank you.

Doug Ko2:22:23

And just one thing to one thing to add, sorry about this.

Doug Ko2:22:26

The uh one thing that we are actually, as uh counselor Rogers identificated, the similar the same biologists are actually being used in on this project, the ones that have worked in V Royal.

Doug Ko2:22:37

So they are they understand, and one that one of the reasons we have consulted them is that they indicated they have been working with VROIO on this project and that they can use the same experience in working with them on this project.

John Rogers2:22:48

That's helpful.

Ron Mattson2:22:49

Thank you.

Ron Mattson2:22:49

Thank you.

Ron Mattson2:22:50

Okay, so we have a motion to receive.

Ron Mattson2:22:52

So move.

Ron Mattson2:22:54

Second all favor, against carried.

Ron Mattson2:22:58

So uh staff will advise you when this comes back to the next council meeting.

Damian Kowalewich2:23:04

And we'll work you with you through the rest of the process.

Damian Kowalewich2:23:07

Thanks.

Ron Mattson2:23:12

Uh you don't have to stay here any longer.

Ron Mattson2:23:14

You can go if you'd like to.

Damian Kowalewich2:23:16

But you're more than welcome to stay.

Ron Mattson2:23:20

Okay, thank you.

Ron Mattson2:23:22

Uh so the next item is a temporary use permit for uh number two hospital way.

Jeff Chow2:23:28

Um thank you, Chair Jeff Chelsea and your planner again.

Jeff Chow2:23:31

Uh is this something that the committee wants the full presentation on?

Ron Mattson2:23:35

Or everybody happy with this?

Ron Mattson2:23:37

I'm fine.

Ron Mattson2:23:39

Does anybody want a presentation?

Ron Mattson2:23:41

I've got questions.

Ron Mattson2:23:42

Okay, so we have a motion to present one question before the emotion to receive.

Ron Mattson2:23:52

So Dave had a question.

David Screech2:23:55

No, I was just gonna move the recommendation.

Ron Mattson2:23:58

No, just before that, John had one question.

David Screech2:24:01

Oh, okay.

John Rogers2:24:02

Yeah, thank you.

John Rogers2:24:03

So uh staff, the um, so this is uh basically a parking lot for for the uh staff or the the workers for number nine, right?

Jeff Chow2:24:11

Through the chair, that's correct.

John Rogers2:24:12

Yes.

John Rogers2:24:13

Well, how will they have access uh from this parking lot to the uh construction of number nine?

Jeff Chow2:24:20

Uh through the chair, um well, I guess there's two ways to get there.

Jeff Chow2:24:24

One is following the road, and one is possibly walking along that CRD right away.

Jeff Chow2:24:30

The hospital trail.

John Rogers2:24:32

So do we um uh I just wondered if um the applicant has worked with uh the owners of lot two to um uh have that pedestrian access along the uh the trail there uh through the chair, through the rezoning and the development permit process, there have been some discussions with the property owners, and they uh that property owner is um I think not interested in proceeding at this time.

John Rogers2:24:57

Yes, uh no, I'm I'm referring to if he's allowing the people to park and he's leasing the land, I'm sure, um, for the the parking lot.

John Rogers2:25:06

Um, I just wondered if you could find out when it comes back to council if he's also agreeing for uh the workers to access lot nine construction on the hospital trail.

Jeff Chow2:25:19

Uh through the chair, we can we'll uh we'll am I able to speak to that?

A. Shyiak2:25:23

Sorry.

Jeff Chow2:25:25

The applicant is also present.

Ron Mattson2:25:27

Ah, okay.

Ron Mattson2:25:28

Yes, please do.

A. Shyiak2:25:29

Hi, uh my name is Amanda Shack.

A. Shyiak2:25:31

I'm the project manager at West Urban for Nine Erskine Lane, and I've dealt directly with the owners of Two Hospital Way, and so they're aware that we're gonna be um using that particular area to have all of our staff parking and that uh the the access will very likely be, you know, the um the hospital pathway, uh the CRD pathway.

A. Shyiak2:25:55

And uh they're they're comfortable with how we intend on um utilizing their space to support the construction uh nine Erskine.

John Rogers2:26:04

Okay, thank you.

John Rogers2:26:05

Okay, thank you.

John Rogers2:26:06

That's a person for public access.

David Screech2:26:09

So just then on that line, I mean, my my understanding from the owners of number two hospital Way was that they were open to some sort of permanent pedestrian access, like right-of-way similar to what is on the other property.

David Screech2:26:28

So and our staff are now suggesting that is off the table.

Ron Mattson2:26:29

Thank you, your worship.

Ron Mattson2:26:32

I don't know what our staff are suggesting.

Lindsay Chase2:26:37

And through the chair, staff have had a number of conversations with the property owners at Two Hospital Way.

Lindsay Chase2:26:42

And at this point in time, they are still considering all of their options.

Lindsay Chase2:26:46

They are considering a future development application on two hospital way, and they've so far indicated that they are waiting to understand what their long term plans are for the property before they make any commitments.

David Screech2:27:05

So I'm a little surprised by that because when I met with them, they certainly seem receptive.

David Screech2:27:11

I suppose my next question would be then why would we approve this?

David Screech2:27:15

If if they're not prepared to work with us to establish that, which is clearly a huge benefit for the Erskine Lane tenants to get to transit, etc.

David Screech2:27:30

Um, why would we be facilitating them renting their property um at financial benefit if they're not prepared to be in genuine talks about how we can somehow manage a right of way through there?

Lindsay Chase2:27:51

The reason that this is being brought forward is that it addresses the parking issues associated with the financial and I I would uh um I don't think it's quite legal for us to hold that over their heads.

Lindsay Chase2:28:05

A temper a temporary use permit is is not a rezoning application, it is not an opportunity to uh to seek amenities.

David Screech2:28:14

So we can decline it.

David Screech2:28:16

It's completely within our peer view to decline it.

David Screech2:28:19

At any rate, I'm just making the point.

David Screech2:28:21

I I will contact the owners myself, I suppose, because I I was in engaged in those conversations with you, Lindsay, at the beginning, and the impression I had was that despite View Royal staff's reservations about the idea, that the owners of that property were prepared to look at it.

David Screech2:28:43

So I'm a little bit surprised to hear that um that that may not come to fruition.

David Screech2:28:49

That had a lot to do with, in my mind, with um the Erskine Lane project being approved.

David Screech2:28:58

At any rate, I'll I'll leave it at that.

Ron Mattson2:29:00

Which Erskine Lane project?

Ron Mattson2:29:02

We've had so many.

David Screech2:29:03

The rentals, the the Urban West Rental Winter Project, right?

David Screech2:29:07

It was part of that that we went to the owners of number two hospital way and um and had preliminary discussions about bringing the pedestrian right-of-way right to the hospital so there'd be direct access to the transit.

David Screech2:29:24

And now we're hearing that that may well not happen.

David Screech2:29:28

So I think that's a shift from what we were expecting.

Ron Mattson2:29:31

So I think that's sort of a loss for the town and for the area if that doesn't happen.

Ron Mattson2:29:37

But at this point in time, we're we're dealing with should we allow parking on I get that.

David Screech2:29:45

Yeah.

David Screech2:29:46

Yeah.

David Screech2:29:46

So but for me, that'll be enough that I will vote against this at the time.

David Screech2:29:51

But I I will find out in the meantime more about it.

A. Shyiak2:29:55

Okay.

A. Shyiak2:29:56

Am I able to contribute to the the discussion as it relates to sort of you know our project um at Erskine Lane?

A. Shyiak2:30:05

So uh having this temporary use permit brought to the town really is um you know West Urban's momentum in in bringing the owners of two hospital way to the table.

A. Shyiak2:30:17

I don't I mean obviously there was comments about they're still unsure about what they want to do with their particular land.

A. Shyiak2:30:23

So you know really our interest in in applying for this temporary use permit uh with the support of the owners of two hospital way there, you know, they are leasing us the property but it it's not as um you know they're really just being collaborative with us versus looking to make a bunch of uh money on on on this we want to pull all of the cars that will eventually need to be in and around our construction site off of the roads so that the neighborhood doesn't have any extra congestion.

A. Shyiak2:30:52

And this space really does provide the perfect you know uh solution and an access point without uh negatively impacting the people that are are you know ultimately going to be alongside us for the next two years of construction.

A. Shyiak2:31:08

So I feel like you know the temporary use permit for the parking is a bit of a separate conversation um for the upgrades or the pedestrian access um from the owners of two hospital way.

Ron Mattson2:31:24

Okay thank you so John if you have a question respecting the temporary use aspect of things but those other things are are are separate and should be discussed offline with uh staff.

John Rogers2:31:34

Yeah, and I look forward to also discussing them when it comes formally to council.

John Rogers2:31:38

Um I think the uh you know the this started because um um uh clearly the applicant is uh has worked out an arrangement with the uh owners of number two so uh their staff uh will be able to have the convenience of using uh the hospital trail uh to easily, quickly, uh conveniently get uh onto the work site.

John Rogers2:32:01

Similarly, which is the a major derivative benefit to the um residents of Erskine Lane and the future tenants of this complex.

John Rogers2:32:11

So it's um I fully support and hope that uh the American work is magic.

John Rogers2:32:16

So what we have is a motion to receive the report.

Ron Mattson2:32:18

Move or seat.

Ron Mattson2:32:20

Second, all in favor, against carried.

Ron Mattson2:32:22

Thank you.

Ron Mattson2:32:25

And staff, we've heard everything else, so I'm sure by the time that this comes up to us, there will be some additional information related to this.

Ron Mattson2:32:34

So the next item, the uh draft official community plan presentation.

Ron Mattson2:32:40

Staff has talked about having a separate evening to for questions for council to have long discussions.

Ron Mattson2:32:47

And so what I would suggest tonight is to listen to staff.

Ron Mattson2:32:52

Um take your document, go back and read it more closely, and we can have a really thorough and fulsome discussion when it comes back because otherwise we could spend hours at this preliminary section.

Ron Mattson2:33:07

So this is we're going to so this is an opportunity for staff to just give us their presentation, then we can come back.

Ron Mattson2:33:13

And if there are other times, if there are questions or things you're not clear about I'm sure if you just contact send a note off to staff before they'll give you back come back with some information before before we have that long discussion.

Ron Mattson2:33:27

So what I'm suggesting folks is we don't have a got it long meeting.

Ron Mattson2:33:33

All right so and the other part about this is uh just in terms of this this this is probably one of the most important documents for council and for the direction of our town so spend the time after tonight to to go through it thoroughly.

Ron Mattson2:33:46

So thank you.

Ron Mattson2:33:48

Staff.

Speaker_072:33:49

Thank you so much, Chair.

Speaker_Unknown2:33:59

All right.

Speaker_072:33:59

All right.

Lindsay Chase2:34:05

So I'm Lindsay Chase.

Lindsay Chase2:34:06

I am your director of development services.

Lindsay Chase2:34:09

The purpose of the of my presentation this evening is to introduce the draft official community plan to committee.

Lindsay Chase2:34:24

And it represents an important milestone in the in the plan process.

Lindsay Chase2:34:29

And I I want to reiterate what Councillor Mattson said, which is that this process is not yet concluded.

Lindsay Chase2:34:36

So this evening, um I'll introduce the plan, I'll go over a little bit of the structure and refresh council's memory on uh on some of the early decisions that were made that influence what is being presented to you today.

Lindsay Chase2:34:50

And then finally, I would like to schedule a workshop with council for later this month so that we can roll up our sleeves and take a deep dive.

Lindsay Chase2:35:01

So the background of this uh of this project is uh we we we did take a really close look at the 2011 OCP and council made a we had a series of workshops and uh opportunities to for for deep discussion.

Lindsay Chase2:35:17

And at that point in time, it was determined that the project that we were undertaking was in fact an update.

Lindsay Chase2:35:23

It was not a wholesale thr rewrite the plan opportunity.

Lindsay Chase2:35:28

This was an update.

Lindsay Chase2:35:29

We uh agreed that the existing structure of the plan was sound.

Lindsay Chase2:35:35

However, there were a few missing elements to it or things that uh topics that were not given as much weight as they might have been because the plan was written in 2011.

Lindsay Chase2:35:48

So I think times times change.

Lindsay Chase2:35:51

Um and the the main points that were made was that climate change needed to feature much more heavily in the planning process.

Lindsay Chase2:36:01

Uh we needed to touch a little bit more on transportation and and continuing to prioritize local transportation over regional regional commuter needs.

Lindsay Chase2:36:11

Um we needed to have more attention paid to the transitions between land different types of land use.

Lindsay Chase2:36:17

And we also recognized that the future of the town center site seemed to be something that just keeps getting pushed off into the distant future.

Lindsay Chase2:36:26

And therefore we needed to focus more on neighborhood nodes and corridors while still retaining the eventual possibility of a future town center site at the Fort Victoria RV park.

Lindsay Chase2:36:40

In terms of the process, there's a graphic from the draft plan embedded in your in your council report.

Lindsay Chase2:36:48

We started with uh neighborhood walkshops in in September and October um and then with the next wave of COVID we transitioned um to mostly online actively all online activities um so we had online workshops we had surveys um multiple opportunities for engagement in in a variety of different ways and throughout that we reported back to council with respect to what we had been hearing from the community on the topics that were important um uh to to raise with them so what changed well obviously we have a much more of an emphasis on climate change and that is not in a single chapter in the document that is actually woven through almost all of the chapters now.

Lindsay Chase2:37:33

We have refreshed the vision, largely keeping it intact.

Lindsay Chase2:37:37

It's a lot shorter, it's more um objective or goal oriented now.

Lindsay Chase2:37:42

And we have uh integrated climate action and placemaking as strategic objectives because those were topics that kept coming up in our community engagement work.

Lindsay Chase2:37:52

There is far greater attention to urban design and transitions between land uses.

Lindsay Chase2:37:58

And again, that recognition that the town center site was a slightly more distant prospect than we had wanted.

Lindsay Chase2:38:05

However, we are making a change and highlighting the importance of neighborhood nodes and corridors in the interim as a step towards having a town center in the future.

Lindsay Chase2:38:19

We have also done things like recognize the possibility of garden suites and carriage houses in policy.

Lindsay Chase2:38:26

However, we also recognize that those would be achieved through rezoning.

Lindsay Chase2:38:30

So we're all we're all the OCP does is establish the possibility.

Lindsay Chase2:38:35

It's not regulatory.

Lindsay Chase2:38:37

And we have really focused on corridors in order to better integrate land use and transportation.

Lindsay Chase2:38:43

We also recognize the importance of the active transportation network strategy work or network plan that is coming that is underway right now, and that that will actually be a really key implementation document for the official community plan.

Lindsay Chase2:38:59

We've also developed new development permit areas.

Lindsay Chase2:39:02

So we are far more clear about the impacts of climate change and in particular wildfire.

Lindsay Chase2:39:09

And we have identified some additional wildland forest interface zones.

Lindsay Chase2:39:14

What this does is it does place some neighborhoods in development permit areas for this that were not previously in a DP area.

Lindsay Chase2:39:23

And you might wonder why we would do that at this point in time.

Lindsay Chase2:39:27

And we'll talk about that more when we go into our workshop.

Lindsay Chase2:39:42

It excludes detached residential.

Lindsay Chase2:39:46

It is really intended for things like carriage homes or potent or possibly the introduction of duplexes, triplexes, very small-scale townhomes into residential areas.

Lindsay Chase2:39:57

And what this does is it provides council with a level of design control to ensure compatibility between different land uses.

Lindsay Chase2:40:07

And the one thing that I would really like to highlight is that our mapping is now being done entirely in house.

Lindsay Chase2:40:15

And we have such a treasure with our GIS guru downstairs, Steve, who worked really hard on the maps.

Lindsay Chase2:40:23

And one of the things that we have done is we've integrated some better accessibility features into our mapping, taking into consideration, in particular, colorblindness.

Lindsay Chase2:40:33

The classic color scheme that is used for mapping includes a lot of red and green, which is also the two most common colors that those with visual challenges have trouble with.

Lindsay Chase2:40:46

So we've identified some tactics and some tone changes to our mapping that actually makes them more accessible.

Lindsay Chase2:40:52

I also think that the mapping is a lot more clear and crisp than the previous mapping was.

Lindsay Chase2:40:58

And it does, it does represent, I think, a good step forward for the town's capacities.

Lindsay Chase2:41:07

These are a few examples of the maps, and you'll notice that instead of all of the different arrows, etc.

Lindsay Chase2:41:14

that used to be on the community on the on the uh conceptual framework, we're we're going with a much more simplified look.

Lindsay Chase2:41:22

And we are identifying where the main corridors are, and we're also highlighting where some of the transition areas are around those corridors.

Lindsay Chase2:41:33

That again is reflected in our official community plan land use designation map.

Lindsay Chase2:41:38

And if you compare this map with the 2011 version, the changes are actually very, very subtle.

Lindsay Chase2:41:46

One of the most substantial issues that the town is facing is that we are effectively out of greenfield land for redevelopment or for development, which means that we are transitioning to infill and intensification in existing uh built-up areas.

Lindsay Chase2:42:03

And in future years, I think we can expect additional consolidations of properties, some homes being removed to make way for new development and new forms of housing within the community.

Lindsay Chase2:42:19

And this is an image that council has already seen when Matthew Thompson came and presented at a session not that long ago, actually.

Lindsay Chase2:42:29

And in it he was talking about the transitions that we would anticipate seeing between a corridor and into the neighborhood beyond.

Lindsay Chase2:42:39

So highlighting that the intense use is going to be occurring on the corridor, and then we transition to townhouses and then other forms of townhouses and into single family or detached residential, perhaps some duplexes, et cetera, tossed in just for variety.

Lindsay Chase2:42:58

So what's next?

Lindsay Chase2:43:00

Today's presentation is really just intended as a bird's eye view of the plan to give you a little a little teaser as to some of the content areas.

Lindsay Chase2:43:10

Next step would be a council workshop to review the draft in detail.

Lindsay Chase2:43:15

I'm hoping that you might all uh find yourselves available on Tuesday, May the 31st, in order to do that.

Lindsay Chase2:43:23

I believe it's the fifth Tuesday in a month.

Lindsay Chase2:43:25

So if you're like me and you have just a super regular schedule, you've already blocked that off in your calendar, I'm sure.

Lindsay Chase2:43:33

Um or not, maybe not.

Lindsay Chase2:43:36

I realize not everybody's as geeky as I am.

Lindsay Chase2:43:39

Um, and once council has had that opportunity to really dive into the plan, staff are absolutely prepared to be making um adjustments, etc., before we go out and do any further engagement, either with the community, uh council's advisory committees and the agencies uh and ministries that we had committed to consulting with very early on in our process.

Lindsay Chase2:44:03

So that concludes my presentation this evening.

Lindsay Chase2:44:06

Um, and the recommendation is that you receive the report uh and that we schedule that uh dedicated special session for later this month, if that works with your calendars prior to referral to any of your advisory committees.

Ron Mattson2:44:23

Thank you.

Ron Mattson2:44:24

Okay, thank you.

Ron Mattson2:44:25

Is everybody happy with uh 31st?

Gery Lemon2:44:29

Just putting it in my calendar.

Ron Mattson2:44:31

Yeah, I'm good for me.

Ron Mattson2:44:33

I'm good.

Ron Mattson2:44:34

Jerry's good.

Ron Mattson2:44:35

Damien.

Ron Mattson2:44:39

David.

David Screech2:44:40

Yep, it's fine.

David Screech2:44:42

You're certainly determined not to have any dialogue at all right now, aren't you?

Ron Mattson2:44:48

Stuff we could talk about, but he's disappeared.

Ron Mattson2:44:52

There he is.

David Screech2:44:54

But yeah, no, the 31st is fine with me.

David Screech2:44:57

It gives everybody a good chance to read it properly and to have some time to contemplate it as well.

Ron Mattson2:45:05

Okay, and staff, you're happy with anyone having any questions about anything, giving you a call.

Ron Mattson2:45:09

Okay.

Speaker_Unknown2:45:10

Absolutely.

Speaker_Unknown2:45:11

Yeah.

Speaker_Unknown2:45:12

All right.

Ron Mattson2:45:13

Okay.

Ron Mattson2:45:13

So um do we need a motion for May 31st?

Ron Mattson2:45:18

Then what time are we gonna start?

Ron Mattson2:45:19

Five five o'clock.

Ron Mattson2:45:20

Five o'clock.

Ron Mattson2:45:21

Five to nine, yeah.

Ron Mattson2:45:22

All right.

Ron Mattson2:45:23

So do you need a motion for that or you just agree with that?

John Rogers2:45:27

Okay.

John Rogers2:45:27

There's um there's recommendations here to receive and uh set the uh special council meeting for May the thirty first, five to nine.

John Rogers2:45:35

So I will move those recommendations.

John Rogers2:45:38

We'll both never get carried.

David Screech2:45:39

When when we say a special council meeting, pardon me.

David Screech2:45:45

Sorry, I just jumped in, but we we do we don't need to do that at the council meeting with the live webcast and everything.

David Screech2:45:53

In in my mind, do we?

John Rogers2:45:56

Uh works or sorry, uh well, I I think we should.

John Rogers2:46:00

You know, I I think it's uh it's an important document to um uh to go over and and um you know the public needs uh if they wish needs every opportunity to the public is going to have all sorts of opportunity because I'm presuming one of the things we'll be directing is to hold an open house, not to mention the public hearings.

David Screech2:46:19

I was hoping when we were saying workshop that it was going to be you know a more informal around the table workshop than a properly structured council meeting.

John Rogers2:46:31

Well as long as it's not a closed meeting that you know people could um um uh you know listen in on.

Ron Mattson2:46:38

Anyway, I I can talk to staff about that online, but I I think the intent is so that people we have lots of discussion and we don't feel constrained by having it in in as a council meeting.

Ron Mattson2:46:52

Exactly.

Speaker_Unknown2:46:52

Exactly.

David Screech2:46:53

Just a more, you know, as Graham used to call them, we roll up our shirt sleeves and sit around the table and look each other in the face rather than um and I I think that's what we should be doing with this.

David Screech2:47:05

It's an important document, and it's in really important that we have a good um dialogue about it.

David Screech2:47:14

I just never think that's as easy in the structured council meeting settings.

Ron Mattson2:47:20

Because there'll be lots of time after to have the posturing informal absolutely.

David Screech2:47:25

We still gotta go through all the proper process, and we'll be having open houses.

Gery Lemon2:47:29

David, you're cutting out.

Gery Lemon2:47:36

Yeah.

David Screech2:47:37

I'm sorry.

David Screech2:47:38

I don't know what to say about that.

David Screech2:47:40

It might be a blessing for you.

Gery Lemon2:47:42

Um that's better.

David Screech2:47:46

So anyhow, just my thoughts.

John Rogers2:47:49

Yeah.

John Rogers2:47:51

John.

John Rogers2:47:52

Yes, thanks.

John Rogers2:47:53

Um yeah, I the the the recommendation the you know, with the staff is that uh we put the um draft agenda online for common community uh um response and input.

John Rogers2:48:05

This is a very complicated document.

John Rogers2:48:08

So I s I you know, and and I just want to say that um, you know, the last with the other OCPs, we had open houses where people could come.

John Rogers2:48:14

And um, so I'm I'm hoping that um you know we are going to have an open meeting that that the public could could be able to listen in on.

John Rogers2:48:25

This is not it's not in camera.

John Rogers2:48:27

It can be roll up the sleeves and around the table, but it should be open and available to for the public's thoughts, um, or put so that they can be prepared for um um and to give their own input and their workshops.

Ron Mattson2:48:39

So everything should be out in the open.

Ron Mattson2:48:41

My understanding, what staff was suggesting was that after we have the next meeting, the information from council would then be incorporated into the next draft, and it'd be that document that'd be circulated.

Ron Mattson2:48:55

So we still have a an opportunity to let everything out before we get to that next stage.

Ron Mattson2:48:59

I don't want to cut out the public.

David Screech2:49:29

So there's a very specific difference.

David Screech2:49:31

My only point I did not want to make an issue and I believe me I'm far too cranky to carry it on is I would rather personally and if you I think it's a whole lot more productive to have a workshop type meeting.

David Screech2:49:48

I think it's we don't need to bring in the whole production crew.

David Screech2:49:53

Do you know how many attendees we have tonight watching this?

David Screech2:49:56

Because I can see it as I'm on we've had zero almost the entire time although we did we did bump to one and two at different points.

David Screech2:50:07

So I just think it's crazy that we would go to all that trouble for what should just be a workshop roll up your sleeves and discuss this type meeting.

David Screech2:50:18

And I'll I'll leave it there.

Ron Mattson2:50:19

So after we have the roll up our sleeves workshop type meeting, before we then we will have an opportunity to formally decide how we want to get this out to public.

Ron Mattson2:50:30

Of course.

Ron Mattson2:50:31

Yeah, so I meant so we can have that discussion later.

Ron Mattson2:50:34

So it's not like we're just going to, you know, if we don't just want to throw it out online, we have a different idea.

Ron Mattson2:50:41

We can discuss that after we go through the next section.

Ron Mattson2:50:47

And with that, I think I'm finished.

Ron Mattson2:50:49

Goodbye.

Ron Mattson2:50:49

Good luck.

Ron Mattson2:50:50

I'm gone.

Gery Lemon2:50:51

Hold on.

Gery Lemon2:50:52

Hold on.

Gery Lemon2:50:53

I'm not.

Gery Lemon2:50:55

So back to me.

Gery Lemon2:50:57

And um, no, it's over to Councillor Kwalowich.

Gery Lemon2:51:00

And you have nothing to do with that.

Gery Lemon2:51:01

I said I'm gone.

Gery Lemon2:51:03

And then we have no staff reports.

Gery Lemon2:51:05

Do we have any correspondence?

Gery Lemon2:51:07

We might make the motion.

Gery Lemon2:51:09

We don't have any correspondence, do we?

Gery Lemon2:51:12

Yeah.

Gery Lemon2:51:13

No correspondence.

Gery Lemon2:51:14

Question period.

Gery Lemon2:51:15

Um if there's well, if there's no one out there.

Ron Mattson2:51:23

Is anybody out there?

Gery Lemon2:51:24

Is there anyone out there my barking into the wind?

Gery Lemon2:51:28

But I will say this if you should happen to sign on and you want to ask a question.

Gery Lemon2:51:34

Um dial 778-402-9227.

Gery Lemon2:51:40

And when prompted.

Ron Mattson2:51:44

So just I just wanted to.

Ron Mattson2:51:46

I understand we basically agreed, which it might not look exactly like that last motion was to have an the informal workshop approach.

Gery Lemon2:51:55

Yes.

Ron Mattson2:51:56

Even though it says council meeting.

Ron Mattson2:51:58

So we'll let staff make it happen.

Gery Lemon2:52:01

Yes.

Gery Lemon2:52:02

And when prompted, enter conference ID 665-458-505 pound.

Gery Lemon2:52:13

And we'll wait a few seconds.

Gery Lemon2:52:23

Well, I'm just following it.

Ron Mattson2:52:26

Maybe if we wait till tomorrow.

Gery Lemon2:52:33

And rule.

Gery Lemon2:52:34

And and uh staff, are we is there anybody on the line that wants to speak on the telephone who just doesn't happen to be watching the webcast?

T. Preston2:52:48

We have no callers this evening, Chair.

Gery Lemon2:52:50

Kelsey Prize.

Gery Lemon2:52:52

Okay, thank you very much.

Gery Lemon2:52:53

Um motion to terminate.

Gery Lemon2:52:55

So move.

Gery Lemon2:52:56

All this in favor, thank you very much.

David Screech2:53:00

Thank you, Councilman Lemmon.