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Council Meeting

Tuesday, May 3, 2022
Council
AgendaMinutesVideo
Updated 2 weeks ago
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Meeting Overview

The Town of View Royal Council met to approve the 2021 Consolidated Financial Statements, which showed a strong financial position with a 1.86 asset-to-liability ratio. Key development items included the approval of a parking variance for 34 Haagensen Court and the first two readings for a five-storey, 43-unit rental development at 10 Erskine Lane, despite concerns from neighbors regarding shading and privacy. Council also established a five-year garbage fee schedule and updated election sign regulations to restrict placements to nine specific zones. A resolution was passed urging the Province to address the family physician crisis with the urgency of a state of emergency.

Key Decisions

  • THAT the agenda be approved as presented.
  • THAT the minutes of the Council meeting held April 19, 2022 be adopted as presented.
  • THAT the 2021 audited financial statements be approved.
  • THAT the email dated April 27, 2022 from A. & R. Sharma, 30 Haagensen Court, Re: Development Variance Permit – 34 Haagensen Court be received.
  • THAT the email dated April 28, 2022 from C. Campbell, Re: Development Variance Permit – 34 Haagensen Court be received.
20
Agenda Items
30/30
Motions Passed
2h 37m
Duration
17
Participants

Transcript

1467 segments
David Screech0:00

Good evening, everyone, and we'll call the council meeting for Tuesday, May the 3rd to order at 6 59.

David Screech0:07

And I'd like to start by recognizing the Lekwungen speaking people, known today as the Esquimalt Nation and Songhees Nation, and that their historic connections to these lands continue to this day.

David Screech0:19

This evening we will hear from the public who telephone in during the public participation and question period portions of the agenda.

David Screech0:26

If anyone on the phone is wishing to call in for the Haagensen Court development variance permit, there is a specific section within that part of the agenda when you would call in.

David Screech0:42

Other than that, you will call in under public participation for any other item on the agenda tonight.

David Screech0:49

And I did mean to note at the beginning that we did remove an article of correspondence, which was to do with First Nations issues, and that will be discussed at a future in camera meeting.

David Screech1:02

So if you're wishing to call in, um, please dial 778-402-9227.

David Screech1:09

And when prompted, enter conference ID 420 867 263 Pound.

David Screech1:17

At the appropriate time in the agenda, I will announce the last four digits of your phone number.

David Screech1:22

I'll ask you to mute the live webcast to avoid feedback.

David Screech1:26

I'll ask that you not use speakerphone to ensure sound quality, and ask that you unmute yourself by pressing star six.

David Screech1:33

And if you can give us your name and address to the record, please.

David Screech1:37

This meeting will be recorded by participating in this webcast.

David Screech1:41

You are consenting to being recorded, and the recording will be available on the town's website for future access.

David Screech1:48

And public participation will come up very quickly tonight.

David Screech1:52

So if you were wishing to call in, now would be the time to do so.

David Screech1:59

And with that, I'd look for a motion to approve the agenda, please.

Ron Mattson2:02

So moved.

David Screech2:03

Thank you.

David Screech2:03

Moved by Councillor Rogers, seconded by Councillor Lemon.

David Screech2:06

All in favor, posed, that's carried.

David Screech2:09

There's minutes from April 19th.

David Screech2:14

Thank you.

David Screech2:15

Moved by Councillor Rogers.

John Rogers2:17

Second.

David Screech2:17

Seconded by Councillor Mattson.

David Screech2:19

Any comments, corrections?

David Screech2:21

All in favor?

David Screech2:23

Opposed.

David Screech2:23

That's carried.

David Screech2:24

I don't really have anything under Mayor's report other than them.

David Screech2:27

We did have a good meeting yesterday with Tom LaFortune, the carver of the poll, the chief of the Esquimaltt Nation, our fire chief Charla Huber.

David Screech2:39

And we're definitely working towards that May 28th date at 11 a.m.

David Screech2:44

And it looks like that'll work.

David Screech2:48

Um both nations are being involved and consulted, but generally they're deferring to the wishes of the carver.

David Screech2:57

Um, and so invitations will be going out soon.

David Screech3:01

And I think it's all well in hand, but do keep that that date free, 11 a.m.

David Screech3:06

And then, of course, the volunteer dinner that evening, so we'll all be in town, anyways.

David Screech3:14

So moving on, we have public participation.

David Screech3:18

Do we have any callers on the line stuff?

Elena Bolster3:22

Your worship, we have no callers at this time.

David Screech3:25

Okay, thank you.

David Screech3:26

So we'll go right to 8.1A, which is the consolidated financial statements and audit results.

Damon Christenson3:37

Thank you, Your Worship.

Damon Christenson3:39

Hi.

Damon Christenson3:40

Uh worship and members of council.

Damon Christenson3:43

I am pleased to present the 2021 consolidated financial statements this evening.

Damon Christenson3:49

I'm just gonna share my screen here.

Damon Christenson3:58

Okay, I think you're seeing them now.

Damon Christenson4:02

So in keeping with the community charter, staff have prepared consolidated financial statements in accordance with public sector accounting standards.

Damon Christenson4:11

These statements are then audited by MNP, our council appointed audit firm, and legislation requires that the financial statements be publicly presented to council for its review and approval.

Damon Christenson4:25

And once council has accepted the financial statements, our auditor's report will be included with the document, submitted to the ministry, and posted on View Royal's website.

Damon Christenson4:36

So I'm going to provide a brief overview of the financial statements, after which Corey Vanderhorst, who is on the call with us this evening, he's our auditor from MNP, and he represents the audit firm for this report, and he's going to represent his report to you.

Damon Christenson4:59

So the financial statements are comprised of a set of statements, notes to the statements and accompanying schedules.

Damon Christenson5:05

We're going to briefly go through these.

Damon Christenson5:15

Going so slowly that you you fall asleep.

Damon Christenson5:18

That would that would not be good.

Damon Christenson5:20

It really is important to understand the role of each participant in the financial statement reporting process.

Damon Christenson5:28

These roles are actually outlined at the beginning of the document.

Damon Christenson5:31

Briefly, management is responsible for preparing the statements in accordance with accounting standards.

Damon Christenson5:38

The auditor provides independent examination of the statements and evaluates the systems of internal controls and then expresses an opinion on whether or not the financial statements fairly represent the actual financial position of the town.

Damon Christenson5:54

Mayor and council has a role to play too.

Damon Christenson5:57

Mayor and council is responsible for the oversight of management and they have the opportunity to meet with the auditor privately to discuss any manner of concern.

Damon Christenson6:09

Statement A, which is the consolidated statement of financial position, presents a snapshot in time at December 31, 2021.

Damon Christenson6:14

It has also prior year comparatives.

Damon Christenson6:22

Non-financial assets, physic sorry, non-financial assets, physical assets that are like buildings, roads, sewer pipes, pump stations are shown separately so that we better highlight the municipality's financial position.

Damon Christenson6:38

The change in accumulated surplus is further explained by the statements, notes, and schedules that follow.

Damon Christenson6:46

Financial assets, which are those items representing future economic benefits that are owned or owned by or owed to View Royal, the increase of just over $2 million from $31 million to $33 million was what was experienced in from 2020 to 2021.

Damon Christenson7:06

Financial liabilities, which are those items that represent future economic benefits that are owed to outside entities, increased $363,000 in 2021.

Damon Christenson7:18

So the net financial assets is the difference between the financial assets and liabilities.

Damon Christenson7:24

This increased $1.8 million in 2021.

Damon Christenson7:30

Nonfinancial assets are primarily the tangible capital assets that View Royal employs to deliver the services to View Royal residents and visitors.

Damon Christenson7:40

Total non-financial assets decreased almost 1.2 million in 2021.

Damon Christenson7:47

The accumulated surplus number is a rather large number.

Damon Christenson7:51

It increased 633,000 in 2021.

Damon Christenson7:54

How did we get there?

Damon Christenson7:56

That's what we're going to talk about as we go through the statements.

Damon Christenson7:59

Statement B, the statement of operations, helps explain it.

Damon Christenson8:02

As well, Note 10, you're going to see later, breaks this down into its various components.

Damon Christenson8:08

These key numbers are used to determine measures of sustainability shown in the bar charts on the right side of the slide.

Damon Christenson8:16

Throughout this slide and the following slides where you see a bar charts, look at the yellow bar as that represents where we are at in 2021.

Damon Christenson8:26

Comparing accumulated surplus to taxes shows a positive number at 15.5, but the trend does indicate that accumulated surplus is decreasing relative to taxation.

Damon Christenson8:42

Assets to liabilities and financial assets to liabilities represents the degree to which a government can maintain its existing financial obligations without increasing the debt or tax burden relative to the economy.

Damon Christenson8:57

In other words, can we pay our bills as they come due without having to borrow or raise taxes inordinately?

Damon Christenson9:05

The financial assets to liabilities ratio at $1.86 represents that for every dollar that we owe, we have $1.86 of assets to cover that debt.

Damon Christenson9:14

This is up from 2020, which was at 1.78 and indicates a strong financial position.

Damon Christenson9:28

The consolidated statement of operations, this is statement B, describes the revenue and expense and the resulting annual surplus for 2021 with 2020 amounts for comparison.

Damon Christenson9:39

You will see that this is the same accumulated surplus number we talked about a moment ago, the 633,000.

Damon Christenson9:46

Statement B explains the difference or change in accumulated surplus between the prior year, 2020, and the current year.

Damon Christenson10:08

Total revenue is down slightly from 2021, about 91,000.

Damon Christenson10:14

In 2020, we had a bit of a kick up in revenue due to the BC Safe Restart Grant funds we received from the province.

Damon Christenson10:23

And we did not get that, of course, in 2021, but that was somewhat offset by sales of land and repatriation of sewer capital reserve funds from the CRD.

Damon Christenson10:34

User charges were up somewhat, mostly due to West Shore Parks and REC reopening.

Damon Christenson10:42

Investment income, you'll notice is significantly down, and that was due to market conditions.

Damon Christenson10:49

Expenses shown against budget with the prior year comparative as well, and again includes the numbers from West Shore Parks and Rec.

Damon Christenson10:58

Total expense is higher by 1.8 million in 2021 compared to 2020, but within budget.

Damon Christenson11:05

And I would I would say that most of the reason for the increase in cost would be increase in cost for labor, goods and services, and some of that also is due to West Shore Parks and Rec reopening.

Damon Christenson11:18

You'll be able to see more details about that in schedules 1 and 2, we're going to look at in a few minutes.

Damon Christenson11:25

The annual surplus number is the difference between revenue and expense in the current year, and it totals that $633,000.

Damon Christenson11:35

You'll notice a rather large number for the budgeted deficit, which represents the net value of reserves, including casino funds that we planned to use in 2021 to pay for operational things like the West Shore Parks and Recreation Requisition, that's a little bit hard to say, grants and aid, and debt interest.

Damon Christenson11:57

Further details are provided by note 17.

Damon Christenson12:01

Net financial asset ratios are trending in the upward direction.

Damon Christenson12:06

You can see in the charts here, indicating improving financial sustainability.

Damon Christenson12:14

Statement C takes a closer look at the change in net financial assets to better understand what happened in 2021.

Damon Christenson12:22

We start with that $633,000 surplus number.

Damon Christenson12:26

We remove all of the items that aren't financial assets like capital assets and amortization because those are tangible assets, not financial assets.

Damon Christenson12:37

And the net result is that financial assets increased $1.8 million so that the total went from $13.8 million to $15.6 million.

Damon Christenson12:47

This number includes the changes in year-end balances for all operating surpluses and reserves from all funds and West Shore Parks and Recreation.

Damon Christenson12:57

Statement D, Consolidated Statement of Cash Flow looks at the change in cash for the period and how the town financed its activities.

Damon Christenson13:07

So the town's cash position is influenced by various things like changes in receivables, payables, deferred revenue and other balance sheet items.

Damon Christenson13:15

Statement D accounts for these and other changes and eliminates non-cash items to explain the cash position difference from 2020 to 2021.

Damon Christenson13:25

So regular regular operations account for 2.8 million of the change in cash.

Damon Christenson13:31

We spent $2.7 million on capital acquisitions, which did that number does include the developer contributions of just over a half a million.

Damon Christenson13:40

And the change in proportionate share of ownership in West Shore Parks and Rec.

Damon Christenson13:45

We received a total of 600,000 from or about 600,000 from the sale of capital assets, including the property on Lund Road.

Damon Christenson13:54

306,000 was spent on reducing debt.

Damon Christenson13:58

So the result was an increase of cash or cash equivalents of nearly $427,000.

Damon Christenson14:04

These funds are held in an interest-bearing bank account or in MFA investments.

Damon Christenson14:10

This total of $30 million includes all reserve funds and accounts, deposits, unspent DCCs, and every everything we hold in cash and cash equivalents.

Damon Christenson14:22

I've told I've said it before and I'll keep saying it.

Damon Christenson14:26

If you read nothing else, read the notes because they really do tell the story.

Damon Christenson14:29

Notes provide the context, the explanations for how certain things are accounted for, and also further breakdowns of the higher level numbers that we just saw in some of the preceding statements.

Damon Christenson14:30

We're going to look more closely at a couple of different notes.

Damon Christenson14:45

We're going to look at just a couple of the key notes in more details here.

Damon Christenson14:50

Note 10, accumulated surplus, is probably what I consider one of the most important notes when you're trying to explain what we are holding in reserves or in a accumulated surplus.

Damon Christenson15:03

That's a very large number, and it can be quite overwhelming to try to understand.

Damon Christenson15:07

So note 10 breaks that all down for you.

Damon Christenson15:10

You can see at the bottom of this slide that the this number, this $633 number $3,000 number shows up again here.

Damon Christenson15:18

It is the difference between the totals and that at the bottom of the two columns, the difference between the 145 million and the 146 million.

Damon Christenson15:29

So we it really does explain that number.

Damon Christenson15:35

That's what this that's what the purpose of this note is.

Damon Christenson15:38

So kind of starting at the top, we can see that the equity in tangible capital asset changes as we acquire or dispose of assets.

Damon Christenson15:48

Record amortization, pay off debt, or incur new debt.

Damon Christenson15:53

So equity in tangible capital assets is down $606, 765,000, sorry, in part because amortization in 2021 was a bigger value than the value invested in asset replacement.

Damon Christenson16:08

Casino revenue decreased by nearly $700,000 as the use of the reserves, that reserve to support West Shore Parks and Rec, Grants and Aid, and other projects exceeded the gaming revenue received from the casino.

Damon Christenson16:25

Community Works Fund, the gas tax account, increased nearly $820,000 because we did receive a double payment from the federal government in 2021, and we only spent $194,000 on projects.

Damon Christenson16:41

Some of the projects that were planned to be funded from this reserve were did not proceed.

Damon Christenson16:50

Unrestricted surplus is that amount that you might consider as all of the surplus that is not in any other reserve or reserve account.

Damon Christenson17:01

So you could also think of this as the amount by which we came in under our balanced budget target of zero.

Damon Christenson17:08

So our our unrestricted surplus is probably the lowest since I've been here at 160, which in total increased by 1.1 million.

Damon Christenson17:26

Most of the reserves did increase.

Damon Christenson17:29

The reserves that decreased were the machinery and equipment reserve, the police we refer to it as the police capital reserve, the one called police equipment property and contract, and the police operations and maintenance reserve.

Damon Christenson17:42

Those were the ones that actually decreased.

Damon Christenson17:46

You may notice that DCCs aren't on this list.

Damon Christenson17:49

They don't factor into this note because they're actually deferred revenue.

Damon Christenson17:52

They're in a separate account to be recorded as revenue when they are used for the designated projects, and they are disclosedules of segment disclosure by service are much like statement B, the statement of operations.

Damon Christenson18:12

However, the main difference is in how the expenses are described.

Damon Christenson18:16

Statement B that we looked at just a little bit ago shows the expenses according to the function or service like general government protective services, transportation, so on.

Damon Christenson18:25

Schedules one and two show the same information, but they break down the revenue and expense for each service, showing expense categories like labor goods debt.

Damon Christenson18:35

Budget is provided for both years.

Damon Christenson18:37

So you can see here that revenue and expense cat, sorry, the services are at the top, general government protective services, and everything's broken down in that way.

Damon Christenson18:49

And it especially expense categories are different from the way they show on statement B in that they show labor and benefits, goods and services for each one of the services across.

Damon Christenson19:01

Schedule one is for 2021, and if we look at schedule two, that's the comparative numbers for 2020.

Damon Christenson19:08

So you can see that they this does provide comparative information in a much greater detail than you saw in statement B.

Damon Christenson19:19

The consolidated schedule of tangible capital assets provides additional details break broken down by the type of the asset, at it shows that the historical cost, which the amount that it cost when it was purchased, shows the amortization, and then of course it shows the net book value.

Damon Christenson19:37

So one of the numbers coming out of this schedule is the proportion of our net book value compared to historical cost.

Damon Christenson19:46

And this tells us what the percentage of our assets are actually amortized.

Damon Christenson19:51

So we have 183 million in historical cost.

Damon Christenson19:56

That's what our total assets cost us.

Damon Christenson20:00

The amortization is nearly 53 million.

Damon Christenson20:04

So that means that our net book value is about 71% of the historical cost.

Damon Christenson20:10

So assets are up or are about 29% amortized, which is about 1% more than last year.

Damon Christenson20:17

So it somewhat relates to the extent that assets are being replaced as the age, and this is something that we watch.

Damon Christenson20:25

You can see the trend for that ratio here, the netbook value to cost in this upper chart.

Damon Christenson20:32

And you can see that it's really kind of going down by about 1% a year.

Damon Christenson20:36

While it is a downward trend, I would argue that at 71% View Royal's assets could still be, you know, kind of thought of as fairly young yet, and we are very nearly keeping up with amortization.

Damon Christenson20:52

A couple of other ratios that we look at as we go through.

Damon Christenson20:56

One is own source revenue to taxes.

Damon Christenson20:59

It is higher in 2021.

Damon Christenson21:01

I would say probably because of the land sale and the repatriation of the CRD reserve funds.

Damon Christenson21:08

You can think of this one as for every $1 of taxation, View Royal earned about 61 cents in non-tax revenue in 2021.

Damon Christenson21:19

In 2021, 1.29% over here with the debt charges, 1.29% of revenue was required for debt payments, which is just slightly lower in 2020.

Damon Christenson21:33

We did have one of the debt issues with MFA refinanced in 2021 at a slightly lower interest rate.

Damon Christenson21:45

debt which results in future flexibility as Viewer has significant unused debt service capacity.

Damon Christenson21:54

Finally, we look at the extent to which View Royal is dependent on government transfers.

Damon Christenson22:00

It's an important ratio to understand.

Damon Christenson22:02

It looks at government transfers as a proportion of total revenue and is something that we watch as an expression of our reliance on government transfers.

Damon Christenson22:11

It is lower in 2021, in this case lower is better compared to 2020 returning to about the level we were at in 2019.

Damon Christenson22:23

Are there any questions from council before I turn it over to Corey Vanderhurst uh Vanderhorst, our auditor's one Mr.

John Rogers22:34

Rogers, yeah, thank you.

John Rogers22:36

Thank you for the presentation and um in in all this for um for this year, I'm just curious.

John Rogers22:41

Um, as we know the um uh staff of and and the our artist had had uh work with us to uh prepare for the RCMP um uh retroactive pay of 290,000.

John Rogers22:54

Is there somewhere in in this that where we would um we could illustrate how we had anticipated and um uh uh if those two or three years ago and uh in anticipation of of this event coming to us this year?

Damon Christenson23:11

Is that number yeah you're not going to see that number um specifically isolated out?

Damon Christenson23:19

Um that would be in um our law our accounts payable and accrued liabilities explained uh by note five.

Damon Christenson23:32

So it would be, you know, part of the part of the amount that would be included in.

Damon Christenson23:39

So I I don't know whether you have the note five in front of you, but in note five, it describes the accounts, it breaks down the accounts payable and accrued liabilities, and I can see that the amount increased from 2020 to 2021 by about 200,000.

Damon Christenson24:00

That would be the amount payable to the government of Canada.

Damon Christenson24:03

And one of the reasons for that increase would be the accrued amount for the RCNP retro pay.

John Rogers24:09

Okay, so if I look at note five, I'll see that.

Damon Christenson24:12

Well, you won't see it broken down to the level of detail I think that you're looking for, but that is an explanation for why that number increased payable to the government of Canada.

David Screech24:23

Great.

David Screech24:23

Thank you.

Damon Christenson24:24

You're welcome.

David Screech24:27

Good.

David Screech24:28

Thanks, Don.

Damon Christenson24:29

Thank you.

Damon Christenson24:32

Corey, over to you.

Cory Vanderhorst24:35

Great.

Cory Vanderhorst24:35

Thanks, Don.

Cory Vanderhorst24:39

Hello, Mr.

Cory Vanderhorst24:40

Mayor.

Cory Vanderhorst24:41

And thank you to the Mayor and Council for having me here today to speak to you.

Cory Vanderhorst24:45

So I've got a few slides to take you through our audit process.

Cory Vanderhorst24:48

I want to start by thanking Don and Steven and the rest of the staff at the town for helping us with the audit this year.

Cory Vanderhorst24:55

It goes very smoothly.

Cory Vanderhorst24:57

Your staff is very prepared and has a really good handle on their finances.

Cory Vanderhorst25:03

So we'll talk a little bit about the audit findings.

Cory Vanderhorst25:06

We are happy to be providing a clean audit opinion, what we call an unmodified opinion again this year.

Cory Vanderhorst25:33

Next slide, please.

Cory Vanderhorst25:35

So we are all all wrapped up.

Cory Vanderhorst25:37

Everything has uh every last piece of paper, every last uh conversation to have is all done.

Cory Vanderhorst25:43

So the final step here tonight is maybe in council approval of the financial statements.

Cory Vanderhorst25:47

Um and I have uh a final audit report ready to send through to uh Dawn after the meeting tonight.

Cory Vanderhorst25:56

A reminder that when we're doing our audit we we there are there are many steps but the one of the some of the key things that we're doing is we we look at the controls in place uh at the town to ensure that you're getting accurate financial reporting.

Cory Vanderhorst26:09

So we are looking at how are your controls designed and implemented and are they um safeguarding assets?

Cory Vanderhorst26:17

Are they reducing uh risk of um theft or error uh in your financial statements?

Cory Vanderhorst26:25

We sample transactions throughout the year to form our audit opinion we don't look at every transaction uh that that goes through your books.

Cory Vanderhorst26:33

And next slide, please.

Cory Vanderhorst26:37

And an important figure that we use to drive that audit testing is the materiality number.

Cory Vanderhorst26:41

So materiality for 2021 was uh $700,000.

Cory Vanderhorst26:45

That's calculated as around 4% of your annual revenue.

Cory Vanderhorst26:49

So that means we looked at all items that were over $700,000.

Cory Vanderhorst26:52

Um, usually those are large grants, um capital projects, things of that nature.

Cory Vanderhorst26:58

And then underneath that threshold, we sample transactions and we use a risk-based methodology to look at different areas um of your financial statements, revenues and expenses, and assets and liabilities, and sample those balances to get comfort that we are uh we think they are um accurately recorded if there was any differences discovered i could not give you a clean audit opinion if they were individually over $700,000 or if they added up to in aggregate over $700,000.

Cory Vanderhorst27:28

Happy to report we're providing a clean audit opinion so there are no significant unadjusted amounts for 2021.

Cory Vanderhorst27:35

Another testament to typically your staff does.

Cory Vanderhorst27:39

No limitations placed on the performance of our audit uh we had access to all the documents we wanted to see people we wanted to talk to.

Cory Vanderhorst27:46

We didn't find any irregularities, anything unusual, no evidence of conflict of interest or unusual related party transactions um a reminder that, of course, we are not specifically um fraud investigators when we're looking at uh financial statement audit.

Cory Vanderhorst28:02

But if anything came to our attention, I would be required to report back to council.

Cory Vanderhorst28:06

And I would request an in-camera meeting, of course, if I needed to.

Cory Vanderhorst28:10

But nothing to report on that on that side of things this year.

Cory Vanderhorst28:16

The town does not currently have an internal auditor or internal audit function.

Cory Vanderhorst28:21

So therefore, in our audit process, we do not rely on an internal audit function.

Cory Vanderhorst28:26

And we are required to review your annual report when it's available.

Cory Vanderhorst28:30

So I will ask for it from uh from Don and Stephen to ensure that the financial statements have been accurately reproduced, that our audit report is included properly, and that there's no missing pages or um incorrect information.

Cory Vanderhorst28:44

So thank you again for the cooperation and assistance from management and staff throughout the town hall.

Cory Vanderhorst28:50

It's not just the finance department, but they do the heavy lifting.

Cory Vanderhorst28:53

Um so thank you very much.

Cory Vanderhorst28:55

And I would be happy, I think believe that's the last slide.

Cory Vanderhorst28:57

I would be, oh sorry, one more slide.

Cory Vanderhorst29:00

Um I do have to confirm our independence.

Cory Vanderhorst29:02

Uh MMP as an audit firm didn't do any other projects or any other work with the town that would impair our ability to give you an independent audit opinion.

Cory Vanderhorst29:10

And that goes from January 1st, 2021 all the way through to today, May 3rd, 2022.

Cory Vanderhorst29:16

So thank you for uh listening to me speak, and I would be happy to answer any questions about the audit process.

David Screech29:23

Great.

David Screech29:23

Thank you very much.

David Screech29:25

Councillor Manson.

Ron Mattson29:27

Thank you.

Ron Mattson29:28

Um thank you for your presentation and staff for your report.

Ron Mattson29:33

So one of the things things look, you know, from from my reviewing this and from what you've said, things look for looks like the town is doing fairly well.

Ron Mattson29:41

So, but from uh from your perspective, you know, what what should I as a counselor be worried about?

Cory Vanderhorst29:47

Okay, uh good question.

Cory Vanderhorst29:49

Thank you, counselor.

Cory Vanderhorst29:50

Um, I I and I think and I'm gonna refer back to uh some of the comments that Dawn made in in her presentation.

Cory Vanderhorst29:56

Um I like to focus in on those ratios and the trends and the things that are uh the sort of the direction over the last four to five years.

Cory Vanderhorst30:03

Um, there are some trends that are positive.

Cory Vanderhorst30:06

The um financial assets to liabilities, that sort of liquid position is trending upward, more cash and investments on hand to pay for future projects.

Cory Vanderhorst30:14

Um, the aging of assets is declining.

Cory Vanderhorst30:16

That is that is a positive one.

Cory Vanderhorst30:22

Uh I think Don had a really good comment that while it is declining at 71%, uh, it is what I would categorize as fairly young assets, or there's not a lot of really old assets, but it's always something to keep an eye on.

Cory Vanderhorst30:34

So um your numbers in and of themselves don't really flag anything terribly urgent.

Cory Vanderhorst30:42

Um, or but what I would, as a generic comment, uh that question of what should we be worried about is I would always look to that long-range planning mindset, um, to the the asset management piece, uh, and being able to balance that with the services being provided.

Cory Vanderhorst30:59

Um that you need to think about those assets that are coming due for significant maintenance or replacement, or or if there's a large capital project coming.

Cory Vanderhorst31:09

I know your staff is is doing that work and providing that information on not just the five year time frame, but the the long range time frame to be able to properly build up those reserves um and and manage the the balancing act of taxes, debt, uh, and um and grant funding to be able to to accomplish some of those projects.

Cory Vanderhorst31:31

That that's always the uh the comment that I would have as a a a general comment to looking to the future and what possible capital large projects are coming, um, to make sure you're ready for them uh and aren't going to have to significantly reduce services to be able to pay for a physical asset somewhere down the line.

Ron Mattson31:51

Thank you.

David Screech31:54

Anyone else?

John Rogers31:56

That's good.

David Screech31:59

Thank you very much.

David Screech32:00

Thank you for your work and thank you staff for all your work.

David Screech32:03

I know it takes a lot to put it all together.

David Screech32:06

So and thank you for the presentation.

David Screech32:09

So we need a motion for the recommendation.

John Rogers32:12

Is it moved?

David Screech32:12

Okay moved by Councillor Rogers.

John Rogers32:14

Second.

David Screech32:15

Second by Councillor Matson.

David Screech32:17

All in favor.

David Screech32:19

Opposed.

David Screech32:20

That's carried.

John Rogers32:21

I agree I I think what um Corey was saying is how much uh he appreciates staff's cooperation and assessment.

John Rogers32:28

Yes, great, great.

David Screech32:29

Yeah.

David Screech32:31

So next we have the development variance permit for 34 Hogginson Court.

David Screech32:38

Welcome, Mr.

David Screech32:39

Chow.

Jeff Chow32:41

Thank you, your worship.

Jeff Chow32:42

Jeff Chow, Senior Planner.

Jeff Chow32:43

Can you hear me okay?

David Screech32:44

We can.

Jeff Chow32:45

Great.

Jeff Chow32:45

Thanks.

Jeff Chow32:46

Had some audio problems earlier today.

Jeff Chow32:47

So just want to be sure.

Jeff Chow32:49

Um, so this is an application for a development variance permit.

Jeff Chow32:54

And I'm just gonna bring share the screen here.

Jeff Chow32:58

And the purpose of this application is to uh reduce the size of a parking space, required parking space, so that um a driveway parking space can be counted as a parking space, and one of the interior garage spaces in a house can be converted into living space.

Jeff Chow33:20

A similar variance was requested in 2016 for 10 separate dwellings nearby on Lund Road that had short driveways.

Jeff Chow33:29

In their those cases, the requested variance was five four reducing it from 5.5 meters to 4.5 meters.

Jeff Chow33:38

This request is to reduce it to 5.3 meters, which is just a relatively small amount.

Jeff Chow33:46

So the proposal would add a little bit of square footage to the house, but it complies with the zoning requirements.

Jeff Chow33:53

Here on this sketch here you can see the footprint of the house and a section of the garage that they want to expand into kind of a little office space.

Jeff Chow34:04

That means that the driveway space will have to count as a as a parking space.

Jeff Chow34:28

But it's on its public property.

Jeff Chow34:30

Technically cannot be counted towards the uh the length of the parking space.

Jeff Chow34:34

Um so the issue here is whether that 5.3 meters is an acceptable variance, um, noting that a standard small car parking space uh elsewhere in in the town the requirement is 4.8 meters, so it's it's longer than than what you see in a small car parking space.

Jeff Chow34:54

Staff supports the proposal in this case because there would be no blockage of pedestrian routes.

Jeff Chow34:58

The sidewalk is across the street.

Jeff Chow35:00

To date, there have been no known concerns about vehicles parked in this driveway encroaching into the travel lane.

Jeff Chow35:05

Uh there are two vehicles that the owner currently parks in the driveway.

Jeff Chow35:09

That would not change after the uh after the variance if the variance is granted.

Jeff Chow35:14

And uh there are also no proposed exterior uh exterior building changes that affect these spaces.

Jeff Chow35:20

So the recommendation is to uh support the variants, and uh the applicant is um is watching, but I don't believe they're able to uh speak at this time.

Jeff Chow35:29

Okay, thank you, Jeff.

David Screech35:35

For anyone who's watching at home and who did want to comment on this, your your opportunity to do so will be coming up very soon.

David Screech35:45

So you you would want to dial 778-402-9227, and when prompted, enter conference ID 420-867-263-pound.

David Screech35:58

So anyone at home who is wanting to comment on the Hogginson report variants, you you should phone in now, and and soon we will get to you.

David Screech36:08

Are there any questions for staff?

David Screech36:10

Councilor Rogers?

John Rogers36:12

Yes.

John Rogers36:12

Thank you, Steph.

John Rogers36:13

Um, and I certainly do remember the um uh the variants that we'd given a number of parking um uh addresses on that seat already.

John Rogers36:22

And it was interesting by the aerial view, there were uh seven vehicles on the street, but um still lots of room in the street, and it appears that um individuals are are respecting um the intent and requirement to park on the driveways.

John Rogers36:36

Um I like the uh correspondence we received.

John Rogers36:39

I I don't have any doubts that um uh the owners will be um um um complying with um uh you know what they say, and they have every intention to um not park on the street, but uh parking the driveways there.

John Rogers36:54

Um but what what's in the in the scenario where um in the future the property's sold and um someone who buys the house um uh in the future and they want to park a large truck and uh now it's um are these individuals um and well they may not be um um as as uh diligent if you like as as the property owners and but they've got a large truck and now they want to park on the street and uh are is this fix in stone for any future um individuals that um may now be exceeding um the uh intended um uh what shall I say permissions through your worship?

Jeff Chow37:42

Um this the severance is a uh is a permanent decision.

Jeff Chow37:44

Uh so if there was a change in ownership and and somebody uh parked a large vehicle inappropriately in that driveway, then I'm sure that there would be bylaw complaints from the neighbors, and I'm sure that the town would respond accordingly because you don't you don't want to block the uh the traveled portion of the road.

John Rogers38:05

So yeah, there would be the recourse of uh bylaw action if the vehicle was exceeding the uh the property allowance.

Jeff Chow38:12

I believe so.

John Rogers38:16

Thank you.

David Screech38:18

Anybody else?

David Screech38:19

Councillor Matson.

Ron Mattson38:21

So just for clarification, my understanding is there's about a meter of town property after the that people would probably that's the area that a truck would potentially be on, and it only becomes an issue if they start sticking the the truck comes out onto the road.

David Screech38:40

Yeah, I think that's right.

David Screech38:42

That's when the bylaw complaints would happen.

David Screech38:44

Right.

Ron Mattson38:44

Yeah.

Ron Mattson38:45

So I don't see it being any kind of an issue.

David Screech38:48

Anyone else?

David Screech38:51

Okay, so we I don't think we need any comments from the applicant, although it doesn't sound like they're available they're available, although they're watching.

David Screech39:03

So the comments from the public.

David Screech39:04

Do we have any callers on the line, staff?

Elena Bolster39:08

Your worship, we have no callers.

David Screech39:11

Okay, thank you.

Ron Mattson39:12

I'll move staff recommendations.

David Screech39:14

Can you move the correspondence first?

David Screech39:14

Receipt of the correspondence.

David Screech39:18

Okay, so we're moving receipt of A and B correspondence moved and seconded.

David Screech39:24

All in favor?

David Screech39:26

That's carried.

David Screech39:26

And then staff's recommendation is moved by Councillor Mattson and seconded by Councillor Lemon.

David Screech39:32

All in favor, opposed, that's carried.

David Screech39:35

Thank you, staff.

David Screech39:37

So next we have the 8.3A minutes of the West Shore Parks and Rec meeting for March the 10th.

John Rogers39:47

Moving receipt the minutes.

David Screech39:49

Thank you.

David Screech39:52

Moved and seconded for receipt.

David Screech39:54

Do you any comments, questions for Damien?

John Rogers39:57

It's just a comment if I may.

Damian Kowalewich39:58

Um the community recreation, I don't know what page it is, page four or five, uh, I was really impressed with the artist who had uh installed uh wooden animals in into the into the Gary Oak uh system so uh you know it's a great idea for children to go in and spot them and you know part of that learning experience and artistic creativity it's really nice the West Shore Parks and Rec Society is uh focusing uh more and more on the arts and there's uh as you know we've we've spoken about it, but there's a call for artists from each community right now.

Damian Kowalewich40:35

And they'll all be providing a piece of art for a designated room to represent the community.

Damian Kowalewich40:40

And um, so that's ongoing right now.

Damian Kowalewich40:43

And of course, we also just had a a clean uh budget review by our auditors at West Shore Parks in Rec uh with a surplus uh because of the staff shortages.

Damian Kowalewich40:54

And as well uh the new hockey the the hockey arena that just got uh retrofitted is getting new lighting.

Damian Kowalewich41:01

Uh that's the Juan de Fuca one up top, it's in desperate need of that.

Damian Kowalewich41:04

So um a lot of good things happening.

Jeff Chow41:08

Good.

Damian Kowalewich41:09

Yeah.

Jeff Chow41:10

Councilor Lemmon.

Gery Lemon41:11

Have you received art from Bureau?

Damian Kowalewich41:13

We have individuals interested already.

Damian Kowalewich41:15

I think we're awaiting the Highlands only.

Damian Kowalewich41:19

Uh didn't have any applicants.

Damian Kowalewich41:21

So we do have some applicants for um, yep.

Gery Lemon41:25

Lovely.

David Screech41:26

Speaking of art, we have to discuss at some point, not that this is the appropriate point in the agenda, but how we're going to use our um top of the cart funds that we put in the budget on what we're going to do.

David Screech41:39

I'm sure we'll see that on a committee of the whole agenda soon.

John Rogers41:43

I'll tell you about my chat without Bay.

David Screech41:45

Oh joy.

David Screech41:48

So any other questions on the West Shore minute?

John Rogers41:51

If I may, just another question.

John Rogers41:52

Um I'm curious about the um uh the dirt bike um facility that's in behind the lawn bowling.

John Rogers41:58

And does does the um uh the west shore have much involvement?

John Rogers42:02

Is that purely run by those volunteers completely self-sufficient?

Damian Kowalewich42:06

It's uh mainly run privately, but of course we do own the land.

Damian Kowalewich42:11

Um recently within the last year or two it's actually been opened up a lot more to the public and there's there's times where uh particularly youth can go and try BMX biking and it's uh becoming more popular there I'm sorry I'm gonna have to ask one more question the uh the uh um skateboard uh facility any more movement on on on behalf yes there have been some uh discussions surrounding it and it's um it's got some uh forward momentum and um we're we're certainly hoping um for some influx and funding and some uh uh some news soon okay thank you.

John Rogers42:59

Sounds exciting.

David Screech43:01

Okay, so I'm gonna call the question on that.

David Screech43:03

All in favor, opposed, that's carried.

David Screech43:06

So we've got the minutes from the CDAC committee.

David Screech43:10

Thank you.

David Screech43:11

Okay, so receipt is moved, seconded.

Ron Mattson43:14

Second.

David Screech43:15

All in favor, opposed, that's carried.

Ron Mattson43:18

I do have one question.

David Screech43:19

I mean well, we yes.

Ron Mattson43:21

It's just about the minutes.

David Screech43:22

Okay.

Ron Mattson43:23

And so so we get these recommendations, but you know, lately, I don't know, we we don't seem to they just seem to disappear in the ether.

Ron Mattson43:32

Like we don't do anything with them.

Ron Mattson43:33

So whether we we treat them all the same, and we just basically ignore them.

David Screech43:40

I don't think that's true at all.

David Screech43:42

Of every recommendation that comes to us from an advisory committee, we choose to either act on it, refer it to staff, or not to act on it.

David Screech43:51

Okay, so we just and at the moment, all we've done so far tonight is receive the minutes from the committee, and we have not yet discussed their recommendations.

Ron Mattson44:05

Yes.

David Screech44:08

Maybe you're catching 40 winks at that point.

David Screech44:13

We certainly discuss their recommendations.

David Screech44:16

I mean, my suggestion tonight would be that these recommendations should just be forwarded to the consultant and staff that are working on our climate action plan.

John Rogers44:26

Part of the consolidation of all the reports.

David Screech44:29

Yeah.

David Screech44:30

And that to me is an action.

David Screech44:33

We're sending them on, right?

David Screech44:38

I think you have a better idea, Counselor Matson.

David Screech44:41

I'm I'm all ears.

David Screech44:43

Um councilor Lennon.

Gery Lemon44:50

Um I agree with all of that, but I'm wondering about the uh the recommendation that council recommend uh recommended the council explore and support initiatives bring rails through the community.

Gery Lemon45:06

Would that necessarily be which one?

Gery Lemon45:09

That's the uh one, two third one.

Gery Lemon45:14

Yeah, absolutely.

Gery Lemon45:16

Oh so that that could be a separate initiative, couldn't it?

David Screech45:22

I mean, I yeah.

David Screech45:25

So yeah, I mean we could so there's four recommendations here, right?

David Screech45:29

Yeah.

David Screech45:29

I mean, you could argue that allocating consisting funding to support expanding greenhouse reduction initiatives isn't really something we're capable of doing at this point.

David Screech45:41

Um, but there may be things that come forward in the climate action plan.

David Screech45:45

Oh, director Chase has her hand up.

David Screech45:49

Lindsay, go ahead.

Lindsay Chase45:52

Thank you.

Lindsay Chase45:52

Thank you, your worship.

Lindsay Chase45:54

Um, Lindsay Chase, Director of Development Services.

Lindsay Chase45:57

With respect to the third recommendation, regarding rails, that has been a longstanding topic in the town's official community plan and that policy it I uh in the in the in the draft that I'm currently reviewing and getting ready to prepare for committee of the whole next week um there is language in in the OCP that continues to support um rail should should more senior levels of uh more senior levels of government um also contribute funding um towards that so I think that this was very much in light of the recent course court decisions um north of Nanaimo um and and that that have the potential to impact the rail corridor.

Lindsay Chase46:40

So that was that was where this was coming from, and this this topic is uh is included in the MCP.

David Screech46:51

Councillor Rogers.

John Rogers46:52

Yeah, I'm I'm certainly happy to see all of these uh go towards um and consideration and and incorporation into the uh climate action plan with the staff and the consultants.

John Rogers47:01

Um but I wouldn't want any of these uh to to limit um um options for us either.

John Rogers47:07

Um one of the um uh the aspects of um you know the island quarter foundation and and just both in in our OCP uh as a transportation corridor, um, but also within our our five-year plan uh that that and and uh Colwood's um um ferry idea.

John Rogers47:26

Um but I I think if this is uh an interesting component that uh staff and the uh consultants for the active transportation plan would be um also wanting to be work you know focusing and working on.

John Rogers47:40

Um I I think it's gonna be um really interesting to hear from our consultant on the active transportation plan who's been in all over the world, like uh you know Korea and and seen some very interesting ideas about um uh what uh what could be besides a limited rail.

John Rogers48:00

I mean, there are buses, there are scooters, there's all sorts of other really interesting ideas, and I wouldn't want us to uh uh go down any particular track um if um we see that there's um other more innovative ideas that could bring uh a far greater uh ridership and use of that corridor.

John Rogers48:19

Um we also have a Supreme Court issue that's coming up in a year's time.

David Screech48:24

Yeah, I I don't think we want to get into a long debate here about what's the best use for the corridor.

David Screech48:31

I mean, the the reality is that if rail isn't returned on that corridor by March of next year, corridor ceases to exist and it's not going to be available for any form of transportation.

John Rogers48:44

You bet.

David Screech48:45

Um, but at any rate, with the recommendations that we have in front of us from our committee, let's go through them one by one.

David Screech48:52

So the first one, do we want to refer that to staff for consideration in future budgets?

John Rogers48:57

Yes, please.

David Screech48:58

Okay.

David Screech48:59

So that councillor Rogers is moving that we refer that to staff.

David Screech49:04

Councillor Matson, or somebody second it?

Gery Lemon49:07

I'll second that.

David Screech49:08

Okay.

David Screech49:09

So it makes sense.

David Screech49:10

I don't see that we can at this point in time decide.

David Screech49:14

Um, as we have no idea what strategies are going to come back that will require funding, but obviously we can when they do.

David Screech49:23

Okay.

David Screech49:24

So, and just for the record, that is an action that we've taken on that recommendation by referring it to staff rather than simply receiving all in favor, opposed, that's carried.

David Screech49:37

Um so this this one certainly looks like it could be referred to the climate climate action.

John Rogers49:44

Um obviously we have to work in in coordination with our neighbors.

David Screech49:51

Yeah, yeah.

David Screech49:52

Okay, so that's moved and seconded.

David Screech49:55

All in favor, opposed that's carried, and we could move receipt of number three and four.

John Rogers50:01

Yes, okay.

David Screech50:04

All in favor, opposed that's carried.

David Screech50:08

Okay, so staff's good with that.

David Screech50:11

Okay.

David Screech50:13

So next we have 9.1a, which is the Capital bike commuter challenge invitation.

David Screech50:24

We've done this quite a few times.

David Screech50:25

I've done it, counselor Rogers has done it, I think.

David Screech50:28

Several times.

Ron Mattson50:29

Yeah, he drove though, right?

David Screech50:29

Yeah.

John Rogers50:31

He works.

David Screech50:34

So I don't know if anyone else is interested in doing that again, or if we can just receive the letter.

David Screech50:42

If not.

John Rogers50:42

I'm happy to work with somebody who wants to you ride, I'll drive.

David Screech50:46

Is there any member of staff that has a burning desire to now that we've lost James?

Kim Anema50:53

Yeah, I'm out of time.

David Screech50:57

We'll work on that.

Kim Anema50:58

Your worship, we have some very well, very good riders that may be up for the task.

David Screech51:04

Right.

Kim Anema51:04

Should you accept?

David Screech51:06

Well, I think if there's any interest from staff, why not let us know on council and one of us would would certainly take part?

David Screech51:14

Um so we'll leave it leave it with you, but um we can just receive the we'll receive the other all in favor.

David Screech51:28

And then the next one is the the canoe from um Constable Brewer.

David Screech51:36

Um which I mean I certainly think if he has an event that where is it here?

Gery Lemon51:42

That is it June 21st or is we're invited to add a paddler.

Ron Mattson51:47

Did they ask one of us to be a paddler?

Ron Mattson51:49

Isn't that it?

David Screech51:51

That's on NATS National Indigenous Day, but I thought he also talked about another event.

David Screech51:58

Yeah, I think well, I think he was just talking generically that if he's planning activities in Fure Oil with the um with the schools would we be interested.

John Rogers52:12

Is there a number of how we can get hold of them too because I just see they've through the RCMP.

David Screech52:17

Yeah I'm sure we could get a hold of them through it sounds odd easily enough.

Ron Mattson52:21

It sounds a good idea to just a bit more clarification in terms of days and things.

David Screech52:25

I'll paddle do you want to do that?

Gery Lemon52:28

I'm I don't add a lot of strength and power to a vote right but but I could take it.

David Screech52:35

I'd be happy to do something why don't why why don't I get in touch with him and just say that we we certainly would be interested in counselor lemon in particular, but if they tell us when events are being held in Bureau, that we would certainly make an attempt to come and make an appearance.

John Rogers52:50

Just send us an email here.

John Rogers52:51

It's a state.

David Screech52:52

Okay.

David Screech52:53

Yeah, I'll um I'll reach out to him.

John Rogers52:55

Thanks.

David Screech52:56

Okay, so we'll receive the letter.

David Screech52:58

Okay.

David Screech52:59

All in favor?

David Screech53:00

Opposed.

David Screech53:01

That's carried.

Ron Mattson53:01

I think I've paddled one here because I have pictures of me down there on the canal.

David Screech53:07

Yeah.

David Screech53:07

Well, the one on on National Indigenous Day.

David Screech53:11

I mean, that's usually a fairly big event.

David Screech53:13

Although I would have thought that would have been slightly different now, right?

David Screech53:19

With the new stat holiday um anyhow we'll find out.

Ron Mattson53:25

Like in some of these pictures, it looks like it's just kids, right?

John Rogers53:27

Yeah kids so it's hard to tell what's going on okay and then we have for information we have a b and c move a seat of a and b okay a and b is moved to see second all in favor oppose that's carried and then we have c which is the letter from rogers communications councillor rogers yeah i you know it it it is interesting and this is on uh provincial land and it would be very curious to know if um i we've we charted with uh earlier if uh the province is getting any revenue or um share if you like from the tower and and uh is there any option uh for for the town to also do you know take part in this revenue sharing if such a thing exists yeah there's certainly that aspect of it i mean it's kind of a massive tower um 30 meters yeah i mean i don't know what 30 meters compares to but it seems it it's replacing what was on the the the hydro by for the handy dark site, right?

David Screech54:47

Because those have had to be removed.

John Rogers54:48

Probably give me the same height.

Ron Mattson54:50

So it's that's incredibly visible spot.

David Screech54:52

Yeah, but do you think it do you think it's the same height as or higher than those?

Ron Mattson54:57

Do we have an option?

David Screech54:59

Well, I mean, Kim will tell us we do not have an option, but I think if we were to write back saying we strive we oppose, um, I think we should ask them to come and present.

David Screech55:11

Um, and show us some schematics and how it's gonna look.

John Rogers55:15

Yes.

David Screech55:16

Um, and explain the business model that they have with the province.

David Screech55:21

And I don't think there's anything wrong with us making that request.

David Screech55:24

Councilor Rogers.

John Rogers55:25

You know, we did the same uh situation with the crest when they wanted their tower at the fire hall.

John Rogers55:31

They came, presented, yeah, and they they clearly showed that uh it was the uh and and the rationale for that site um uh as it, you know, the way it can reflect um up and down the island.

Damian Kowalewich55:43

So are there any other sites is the question yeah they have a simulation on here and it looks big quality well i think it's important that we're prepared for a couple of um um pushbacks on this uh first of all if we're looking to monetize this in any way uh there'll be some issues with that from members of the public if you recall there's a lot of uh advocates that are fairly certain that cell phone um cell phones give off certain uh levels of uh of uh emissions uh through the air and transmit waves that cause uh diseases.

Damian Kowalewich56:26

And I know that you yourselves uh we've all received uh electronic messages from advocates about this.

Damian Kowalewich56:29

They're kind of um to all elected officials, if you recall those.

Damian Kowalewich56:38

I think it's the 4G network and those kind of things.

Damian Kowalewich56:41

I don't really know much, honestly.

Damian Kowalewich56:43

I I don't know how it really works, but I just know that there's a lot of advocates out there about it, and I think we should be prepared for that as well.

Damian Kowalewich56:50

So, to you know, to our um desire to have a presentation, that should probably be included in it as well.

Damian Kowalewich57:01

Oh, absolutely.

Damian Kowalewich57:02

I mean, you know, I I think other than just this big tower going up being an ISOR, yes, it'll improve cell service.

Damian Kowalewich57:09

Rogers Communications will monetize off it.

Damian Kowalewich57:11

They just bought Shaw Communications, they're the largest telecommunications company in Canada.

Damian Kowalewich57:17

Uh, there's a there's a lot going on with it.

David Screech57:24

So, yeah, I mean I don't I don't disagree with any of that, but I don't I don't think there's anything wrong with us asking them to come and make a presentation on exactly what they have planned and clarifying the business.

David Screech57:41

Um I mean, I'm curious about the size of it for sure, because that really does look highly intrusive into the landscape.

David Screech57:51

But I'm I'm also curious about their business arrangement where Rogers, who is a publicly owned corporation or public stocks, um is making an agreement with the province on a tax exempt property.

David Screech58:06

Um and I think we have every right to question that.

John Rogers58:09

Yeah.

David Screech58:10

So a motion to ask Rogers to make a presentation.

John Rogers58:15

Yeah, absolutely.

David Screech58:16

So all in favor?

Ron Mattson58:18

Yeah, and could when we ask when they show pictures of what it's supposed to look like, rather than just showing one from the highway from like miles back to the extra.

David Screech58:28

It would be great to see it in perspective of how how it's actually going to what what are those?

David Screech58:36

Not a rendering.

David Screech58:37

What am I looking for, Lindsay?

David Screech58:39

When we when for developments, when we ask for the sighting of how a six story building is going to look from different angles what would be the the proper way to ask for that for the power we ask for a photorealistic uh context image okay so they would they would take the they would take photos and and insert what they're proposing into those photos okay but but the important part is from what would the residents see as opposed to this nice one from driving down the highway a mile away yeah yeah right okay all in favor that's carried.

David Screech59:19

Okay, so next we have 10 so bylaws.

David Screech59:23

So we need to receive the staff report for the 2022 tax rates and that's anyone has any questions.

David Screech59:34

Councillor Rogers.

John Rogers59:35

Yes, thank you.

John Rogers59:36

Um I would appreciate uh staff including the um uh dissipated tax rates for the CRD in the Capital uh Housing District or Hospital.

John Rogers59:46

Um, do we know what uh school district 61 um tax will be?

David Screech59:53

What their taxes will be probably not, I said yes, I would imagine.

Damon Christenson59:59

Don Your Worship uh and Council, yes, we do have that rate.

Damon Christenson1:00:06

Do I have it off the top of my head and at my fingertips?

Damon Christenson1:00:09

Unfortunately, I don't.

Damon Christenson1:00:11

That of course is set by the province.

Damon Christenson1:00:12

The reason why that the capital regional district rates are in this bylaw is because we calculate those rates rates, whereas the school, the province, uh just gives us the rates and we apply them to our system.

John Rogers1:00:26

Okay.

John Rogers1:00:26

It may be if staff, if you could just email it out to us just for our information.

Damon Christenson1:00:32

We always publish those rates on our website as well, but certainly, yes, we can distribute those to council.

John Rogers1:00:38

Okay.

John Rogers1:00:39

Thank you.

John Rogers1:00:40

And I guess the other question, your worship, um, we had some uh some confusion with respect to um um when the taxes are due and the time frames and um payment methods, uh all that uh kind of discussion last time.

Damon Christenson1:00:54

Um will we have um uh have we are we sure about um the the circumstances so uh there won't be any more ambiguities or confusions uh this year that has to actually we never did not that that has anything to do with the tax rate but there was a point about modification we we never did get cut after the the business of online payments we never did finish that um close the loop on that was included so your your worship if I may the intention of uh this report and the bylaw that uh you will consider in a few minutes is that there is an additional phrasing in there that allows the collector to reverse a penalty if a taxpayer who was charged a penalty provides independent documentary evidence that the payment was made on or before the due date, even though perhaps the receipt of the payment to the town was delayed due to processing time.

Damon Christenson1:02:00

So we believe that we have uh, as you say, closed the loop on that that would allow uh and it's in it's in the bylaw that uh the collector may reverse the penalty upon independent documentary evidence.

David Screech1:02:16

Right.

David Screech1:02:17

I see that here.

David Screech1:02:18

Yeah.

Damon Christenson1:02:18

Yeah.

Speaker_021:02:19

That's great.

David Screech1:02:19

Okay.

David Screech1:02:20

Good.

David Screech1:02:21

Okay, so we need a motion to receive staff's report.

David Screech1:02:25

Okay, so that's moved, seconded.

David Screech1:02:27

All in favor, opposed, that's carried.

David Screech1:02:29

And then we need first, second, and third reading of bylaw 109.

Ron Mattson1:02:35

So I'll move first, second, and third, second.

David Screech1:02:37

Okay, so that's moved by councillor Matson, seconded by Councillor Kowalovich.

David Screech1:02:41

Comments, questions, discussion.

Ron Mattson1:02:45

It hurts.

David Screech1:02:49

Okay.

David Screech1:02:50

Thank you for the work, the staff.

John Rogers1:02:52

Yeah.

David Screech1:02:53

All in favor, opposed, that's carried.

David Screech1:02:57

And then we have garbage.

David Screech1:03:02

Yeah, the staff.

David Screech1:03:04

Do we want to hear from staff on the garbage household food waste collection user fees?

John Rogers1:03:10

Just a question.

David Screech1:03:11

Okay.

David Screech1:03:12

Go ahead.

John Rogers1:03:13

So on the uh page two or three, um the staff right at the very top of the calf talked about the land tipping fees uh increasing uh for 2022.

John Rogers1:03:26

Um have we built in or is the the chart that's provided showing us the uh increments year after year?

John Rogers1:03:32

Do those increments give some any idea what we might anticipate for the CRD's um plan for annual increase of tipping fees?

Damon Christenson1:03:44

Uh through your worship, uh while we don't have a five-year time frame for what the CRD's plan is for increasing those those tipping fees, we have projected, uh, you know, and and just like any other crystal ball gazing, we we may be very close and we may not be as close.

Damon Christenson1:04:04

Um, the intention with projecting those into the future uh was to try to avoid uh perhaps sharp spikes and or peaks in our user rates going up and instead have a longer term plan so that our residents can kind of count on a little bit of an incremental increase rather than a big increase all at once.

Damon Christenson1:04:29

So a short answer to your question is while we don't have firm rates from the CRD, we have projected increases that we hope are close.

John Rogers1:04:40

Great.

John Rogers1:04:42

Another question.

John Rogers1:04:43

So in uh in the section on user fees, um you said the garbage collection user fees would be projected um based on 2800 dwelling units.

John Rogers1:04:53

So um over the five years, let's say we you know we're going up I don't know, 200 units every over the time.

John Rogers1:05:01

So does that uh at the end of the fifth year, let's say we have now 3,500 um um units.

John Rogers1:05:09

Does the number of those different or increased number of units does that help spread the cost or balance the costs um by year five?

John Rogers1:05:16

Or does that mean we've got now more for the uh uh the garbage men to pick up and and um uh so their their cost is going to be going up as well than increased number of units?

Damon Christenson1:05:30

A very good question.

Damon Christenson1:05:31

Thank you.

Damon Christenson1:05:32

Primarily, uh there's a couple of factors that I that I was thinking of as you as you were asking the question.

Damon Christenson1:05:38

One is that uh our garbage regulation applies to uh single, when I say single family residential primarily, but certainly multifamily is excluded.

Damon Christenson1:05:51

So so to the extent that you expect uh single uh family or uh up to a fourplex to increase in view royal, that would be what would drive those numbers up.

Damon Christenson1:06:05

The other aspect is that both curbside collection um, I'm sorry, the the collection cost that would be the our contractor cost to drive around and pick up the garbage as well as the uh volume of garbage and that drives the tipping fees are are certainly variable costs that would increase by the number of people using the system so while we might add more revenue we are actually adding more cost as well so that effect of kind of spreading out more of the cost to more users is going to be somewhat in fact quite a lot minimized by that.

Gery Lemon1:06:43

Yeah thank you counselor it's a big night for you, Don.

Gery Lemon1:06:48

You've got a lot on um will will each householder or or resident be receiving a an individual letter, or will the information about this come out via social media and on town news e newsletters and so on?

Damon Christenson1:07:07

We hadn't thought about a direct mail piece, as that's rather a costly way to distribute the information, but certainly sharing the information through our website, through our newsletter, our e-updates, and Twitter, and however we can.

Damon Christenson1:07:27

Now I do note that throughout the budget process, we have been, if if the public has been watching any of those materials that have been coming out, we have we we in fact projected that the increase would be $40 to the user fee, and in in fact it's a little bit less than that for 2022.

Damon Christenson1:07:47

So we are trying to get the word out and we certainly will make concerted efforts to to make that apparent.

Gery Lemon1:07:55

Okay thank you.

David Screech1:07:57

Council Matson so just thinking when we put out the average the annual letter on when people get sent their taxes we could easily just note well I was trying to think I I thought it was actually noted in there the yeah but we saw Don was nodding her head yeah, it is.

Damon Christenson1:08:15

It will be identified specifically there.

Damon Christenson1:08:17

Uh perhaps we can highlight that a little bit more, just bring it their attention.

Damon Christenson1:08:21

And and and I think what what I hope will be of interest to our residents is that um while this year may be uh you know a little bit more of a jump than they're used to, uh we are wanting to make it a five-year, you know, frame that they can see what the rates are projected to be over that five years, so they can be reassured that it's not going to be this kind of a jump each and every year going forward.

Ron Mattson1:08:44

And so my question would be just following up on that, I guess it's not a question, but so thirty-five dollars the first year, nineteen dollars the next, and then ten dollars for each of the the following three years.

Ron Mattson1:08:55

And if you were to compare that to sort of other municipalities where you can actually break it down to uh an annual cost, where's comparable to those municipalities, except for most of them they're bi-weekly and ours is weekly.

Ron Mattson1:09:09

Just as a is that a sort of like a quick summary since the public aren't getting a long presentation.

Damon Christenson1:09:14

Couldn't have put it better myself.

Damon Christenson1:09:17

And certainly it is very, very hard to compare rates between municipalities, but at the end of the day, um, that is what the residents will do is is compare rates regardless of you know how often the service is or how the service is provided.

Lindsay Chase1:09:31

Okay, thank you.

Gery Lemon1:09:35

You know, as rates go up, and this is you know a bit of a segue, but to to Councillor Matson's point, as rates go up, and it you know it people are under um such financial stress these days and and pressures at some point we might want to consider or at least have the discussion about whether or not to go to biweekly.

David Screech1:09:58

Well not now.

John Rogers1:09:59

Not now understood at some point anyway that's that's that I think if I may um maybe we'll we'll have it later but uh I I understand the rationale why we what we did the way we did I'll move did we move receipt so we need to move receipt of staff's report so moved okay moved by councillor matsen seconded by councillor rogers all in favor pros that's carried and then we need first second and third of byla 1098 so moved first second third move by councillor mattson.

David Screech1:10:34

Second seconded by councillor rogers.

David Screech1:10:37

Everybody's good.

David Screech1:10:38

Great.

David Screech1:10:38

All in favor proposed that's carried.

David Screech1:10:42

Thank you, Don.

David Screech1:10:43

So next up we have rezoning application 10 Erskine Lane.

David Screech1:10:52

Mr.

David Screech1:10:52

Chow.

Jeff Chow1:10:53

Thank you, your worship.

Jeff Chow1:10:55

The purpose of this presentation is to present some new information relating to the rezoning application for 10 Erskine Lane, introduce the rezoning bylaw, schedule a public hearing, and add a requirement that a covenant be registered concurrent with fourth meeting for community amenities.

Jeff Chow1:11:18

This outline we will cover the background, the proposed zone, the development concept, how the official community plan relates, and some impacts on transportation and servicing, and the community managing contributions and some additional information since the application was first introduced to council in January of this year.

Jeff Chow1:11:40

This is the subject property, 10 Erskine Lane.

Jeff Chow1:11:43

And as you'll recall, it is adjacent to townhouses of 14 Erskine Lane, and across the street are two large properties for which development permits have been issued, and 9 Erskin Lane has started sort of some initial clearing work.

Jeff Chow1:12:02

In terms of the zoning history, just recap the property was rezoned in 2008 for 30 apartment units, and the amenities identified at that time was to construct a sidewalk from the site to Erskine to Watkiss Way and another sidewalk from the site to the Galloping Goose access at the end of Erskine Lane and an improvement to the width of that path to the uh to the Gallop and Goose.

Jeff Chow1:12:34

The proposal is to rezone from permitting 30 units to 43 units.

Jeff Chow1:12:40

As a result, there would be an increase in the amount of uh closed floor area and building height.

Jeff Chow1:12:46

So this is the zone.

Jeff Chow1:12:49

This is kind of a table that summarizes the uh the zone that's been considered by law 1093 in terms of uses.

Jeff Chow1:12:56

Uh there's no there's no change.

Jeff Chow1:12:58

Uh the uh the main changes for the number of units, the gross, the uh floor space ratio, um, the building height.

Jeff Chow1:13:08

In this case, it's the the height would change from 12 meters to 17.5 meters.

Jeff Chow1:13:14

Um, the other text that you see there has to do with um stepping the building down towards the townhouses at at Erskine Lane, and we'll sort of show you that a little bit later.

Jeff Chow1:13:24

And it would increase the building from three stories to five stories.

Jeff Chow1:13:29

Uh the the development variants, development permit that was approved in 2008, varied the building height to permit four stories.

Jeff Chow1:13:36

In this uh this zone, we would actually just say five.

Jeff Chow1:13:40

So the previous development further was for four stories.

Jeff Chow1:13:43

So you though even though it sounds like it's an increase from three.

Jeff Chow1:13:46

Uh lot coverage, there's no change, and uh there are there is um some minor changes to the to the setbacks that relate to one relates to um where the front lot line is, and and originally it was thought to be Erskine Lane, but under the zoning bylaw definition, it's the the cul-de-sac, the far end of the of the lot that's actually the front lot line, and the rear lot line is the uh the lot line abiding the townhouses.

Jeff Chow1:14:14

Um and this is just a site data summary that that shows their development concept, uh, which is for 43 units, and they would they would the concept is is to meet all the uh the parking requirements as well.

Jeff Chow1:14:30

Um so as council will recall uh this is a rezoning and the focus is the land use, uh, but the applicant has provided uh kind of a concept of what they what they intend to build, and so we'll we'll cover that a little bit and and and um explain visually how that complies with the proposed zone.

Jeff Chow1:14:48

Uh so this is um this is a site plan of the property with the building kind of in the center.

Jeff Chow1:14:54

Um in the hatched area there is uh it would be a road dedication because the width of Erskine Lane is substandard.

Jeff Chow1:15:02

Um as a result, the the it a lot of the quite a portion of the land would be dedicated for road.

Jeff Chow1:15:12

Uh but the main concept is for a building that would have a driveway accessed from the uh the furthest end of the site that curls around the building into a surface parking lot and underground parking.

Jeff Chow1:15:25

At the west end of the site adjacent to the townhouses part of the underground parking would extrude up to the ground.

Jeff Chow1:15:32

Because the property slopes from Erskine Lane towards the Galloping Goose Trail, the south end of the the um the concealed parking would stick under the ground up to 1.5 meters about five just over five feet and that would be used as almost like a like a deck for the for the property here.

Jeff Chow1:15:54

Another item to note here is in the back there the Galloping Goose Trail is is uh is a former railbed and when when it was built through there um this uh depression was created uh that separates the site from the galloping goose trail and it's fairly natural and and uh in the wintertime it does hold some water and the design here um uh there are a number of trees at the at the rear of the property that would be preserved as kind of uh as kind of a to help uh accentuate the buffer between the galloping goose trail and and the main building that's one of the concerns for this for the CRD uh this is a revised development concept um that kind of um uh moves parts of the building around a little bit, and the idea here is to create a transition down to the townhouses.

Jeff Chow1:16:46

And so when you're looking at the property from from Erskine Lane, um it's got different uh different layers and different levels to it, uh, with kind of a five-story element being being closer to the cul-de-sac end and transition transitioning down to the to the townhouses.

Jeff Chow1:17:03

Uh from the rear you can sort of see part of the uh where part of the underground parking would be exposed, but that would be fairly level with the existing grade.

Jeff Chow1:17:13

And from the and there's different sides of the building.

Jeff Chow1:17:15

The lower right hand corner is uh the view of the building as seen from the adjacent townhouses.

Jeff Chow1:17:22

Um the the uh the grade is actually a little hard to see in this illustration.

Jeff Chow1:17:27

We'll see it another, but that shows that that's a it's a three-story building element that faces the townhouses with the upper two stories set quite a bit back.

Jeff Chow1:17:45

This is the uh illustration shows the previously approved development permit and the proposed.

Jeff Chow1:17:50

So the black and white buildings uh is the over 2008 development permit, and you can sort of see that uh that it was uh three stories at seven and a half meters away from the townhouses with the fourth floor setback.

Jeff Chow1:18:06

Um the current proposal is for a 5.4 meter uh setback, but it would still be only three meters.

Jeff Chow1:18:13

Uh the building is raised a little bit uh which is better from a uh streetscape perspective because the previous proposal the uh some of the buildings were were almost you know half a floor below the the street level uh so in terms of streetscape this proposal is better it's it's a good compromise in terms of um of creating a transition to the existing townhouses uh this is a uh closer view of uh what the adjacent properties would see at the townhouse and uh in this case because there are some balconies that are proposed as well uh that face the townhouses um they would uh some privacy screens are proposed that would that would create another uh visual buffer between the two properties digital design comment again the design will be formally addressed at the development permit stage um this is the development concept which may still be subject to change but the again the the zoning is designed to allow the building to sort of step towards uh step down to five stories to three stories to two stories on the adjacent property which is also further up the slope uh stepping back up with floor uh reduces the building mass and adds visual entrance to the roof line, and again, the uh the building and parking are cited to preserve that stand of trees at the at the south end of the property.

Jeff Chow1:19:39

Uh in terms of the rezoning proposal, it complies with the mixed use mixed residential line use designation in the OCP and would provide additional density that would support the commercial and employment needs for the uh for the hospital neighborhood center.

Jeff Chow1:19:54

Uh it's generally in keeping with other official community plans, which includes promoting complete streets.

Jeff Chow1:19:59

This is an opportunity where additional pedestrian and cycling amenities could be provided in terms of an improved connection to the galloping goose.

Jeff Chow1:20:06

Uh, these they've got street oriented ground level units that have a direct connection to the street, which is better than apartments and condos having a single entrance.

Jeff Chow1:20:15

This provides more of a connection to the uh to the neighborhood.

Jeff Chow1:20:19

The building firm makes efficient use of limited land, and uh it's in a location that has multimodal transportation opportunities, as in it's not a long walk to the nearest bus stop.

Jeff Chow1:20:29

Uh but the intent is to mainly maintain trees in the back corner of the property.

Jeff Chow1:20:32

In terms of the environment, it's not in an environmental DP area.

Jeff Chow1:20:42

And while the trees along the west property line adjacent to the townhouses would be removed, there would be a kind of a one meter uh stretch where a hedge can be placed to sort of um sort of help soften the edge of the uh of the development.

Jeff Chow1:21:00

In terms of transportation impact, additional 13 units is not going to improve impact traffic volumes, but the Ministry of Transportation approval is still required prior to force leading because the site is close to the highway.

Jeff Chow1:21:13

Uh BC Transit supports the proposal because it would increase density along the local transit network corridor.

Jeff Chow1:21:20

Basically, buses that run from the hospital have a high level of service, as well as a couple of I think two routes that are on Watkiss Way.

Jeff Chow1:21:45

Exits the site.

Jeff Chow1:21:47

The 2019 Sanitary Sewer Master Plan anticipates increased density and modeling is not required for the additional 13 units in terms of additional stormwater drainage loading.

Jeff Chow1:22:02

A recent strain and drainage analysis indicates that there's no downstream upgrade needed to the municipal drainage system.

Jeff Chow1:22:09

And road dedication is required along Erskine Lane because the width of that road allowance is substandard.

Jeff Chow1:22:17

Road dedication was also taken across the street for the two properties to uh to meet our standards.

Jeff Chow1:22:25

In terms of community amenity contribution, the applicants agreed to provide the amenities originally proposed as part of the uh rezoning that consists of the sidewalk from the site to uh to Watkiss Way and to the trail connection to the Galloping Beast, as well as widening the uh the pathway to the actual path to the Galloping Goose.

Jeff Chow1:22:44

The standard at the time was for 1.8 meters wide sidewalk, so our current standard is two meters.

Jeff Chow1:22:55

So it's staff recommends a portion of the community amenity contribution funds be used to make up that difference so that you get a full standard sidewalk that meets current standards.

Jeff Chow1:23:18

And of that, the town's CAC policy was recently amended so that 10% of the contribution would be provided to the to the Capitol Regional Housing Trust Fund to supplement the town's annual contribution.

Jeff Chow1:23:34

The application was also reviewed by the Joint Advisory Committee in January, and they discussed a number of items, but ultimately the committees advised council that they support the rezoning application as presented.

Jeff Chow1:23:51

In terms of community engagement, the applicant held two online public information meetings once in November and the second at the end of March.

Jeff Chow1:24:00

And the applicant indicates that the greatest concern was uh just about the extent of development that's happened along this street.

Jeff Chow1:24:07

And uh and while the actual number of units was not a concern, uh the height of the building was a concern for some residents due to privacy and shading.

Jeff Chow1:24:16

And that's where the applicant has come back with with a building that kind of steps uh that provides a great greater stepping.

Jeff Chow1:24:25

Um recommendation is that the applicant that the bylaw be given first and second reading and that a public hearing be scheduled for uh two weeks from now, May 17th, uh as part of um and prior to fourth reading that that a covenant be registered to uh to provide the community to manage contributions and the road dedication.

Jeff Chow1:24:51

So that completes the presentation.

Ron Mattson1:24:53

Uh the applicant is I believe is in the chambers as well, and uh we will both we both uh available to answer any questions that council may have okay thank you staff questions for staff councillor matts and yes uh thanks Jeff so my my big concern in in a project like this especially given what's happened to the the general area and then you know the the impact with the and the must many hundreds of units that are being built on the street uh isn't the extra traffic on the road, it's the impact on the adjacent townhouses in terms of the heights of the building and that loss of that um sort of the treed the treed area that's it's now going to be cut down and turned into turned into a hedge.

Ron Mattson1:25:51

And so I'm really concerned about what the impact is going to what it's going to look like from the townhouses, and and I really don't have a feel from the presentation that they won't be a significantly negative impact on the townhouses as opposed to what was currently allowed.

Ron Mattson1:26:14

No, and I I see that, but what I don't get is uh a perspective of what it would look like from the townhouses.

John Rogers1:26:23

The next picture.

Ron Mattson1:26:29

If you're from the townhouses, you you wouldn't be happy with that.

David Screech1:26:30

I mean, it looks awful.

David Screech1:26:35

Jeff, just back to the other slide just for a sec.

David Screech1:26:39

So is the distance from edge of the proposed building to the edge of the existing townhouses?

David Screech1:26:49

That's 10 meters, basically, right?

David Screech1:26:52

Uh there's a three space there.

Jeff Chow1:26:56

Through your ship, that's correct.

Jeff Chow1:26:57

There would be uh the balconies do stick out a little bit.

Jeff Chow1:27:01

And in for the townhouse, uh the the middle unit of that townhouse is is a little bit closer to the uh to the uh about a meter closer to the uh to the property line.

David Screech1:27:11

Um so it'll be a little bit less than 10 meters i mean part of it my understanding was initially when we when this was first put forward that forested area or treed area with the large trees on the property line between the two properties it would have stayed there now now they're all gonna be cut down and so that's a a large concern for me i mean this would be much easier to take if there was a stand of trees in between the two properties sure I I think rather than letting you sort of do one offs maybe we'll get you to come up in in a minute and then you can address the the concerns you hear that would be great.

David Screech1:27:52

Okay that's counselor lemmon.

Gery Lemon1:27:57

Sure.

Gery Lemon1:27:57

And my question is probably for the applicant.

Gery Lemon1:28:01

Uh and and that is I'm I'd be interested in knowing um how how much participation there was in the consultation consultations and the and the feedback that you received.

Gery Lemon1:28:16

Thank you.

David Screech1:28:18

Councilor Rogers?

John Rogers1:28:20

Yeah uh a number of questions um uh you know it's great to hear from the OCP perspective but also I'd be uh curious to hear from the climate action perspective um you know uh step code and and uh, what your heat source would be um um the the traffic consultant report was really good uh and it had uh made recommendations of bike share um uh to increase ridership on the galloping goose and and modems moto sharing.

John Rogers1:28:47

Um so interested in that.

John Rogers1:28:49

Um I I do see the um the screening.

John Rogers1:28:52

I was uh I got a clear message from that.

John Rogers1:28:55

I'd be curious to know, I guess, from the public hearing how the residents will feel about that.

John Rogers1:28:59

But it does seem um from the staff report that there was a variance.

John Rogers1:29:03

The rear was 10 meters existing, or maybe sorry, it or the existing property was 10.

John Rogers1:29:10

Um 2008 is 7.5, and now we're dropping down to 5.4.

David Screech1:29:16

So it seems like Well, why don't you ask staff that?

David Screech1:29:19

That's a question for staff.

John Rogers1:29:20

Yeah, so is that staff?

John Rogers1:29:23

Let me repeat that.

John Rogers1:29:24

So back to original house as it is today is 10 meters.

John Rogers1:29:28

This uh 2008 drawing showed us it was gonna be 7.5, I guess.

John Rogers1:29:29

And now we're down to uh 5.4 um setback from property.

Jeff Chow1:29:39

Yeah, uh through you, your worship.

Jeff Chow1:29:42

Um the the 2008 rezoning and the development permit address used the Erskine Lane frontage that we're looking at right now as the front of the lot.

Jeff Chow1:29:51

And so the rear lot um that that was described in the zoning is actually the where the we're the on the galloping goose side of the property.

Jeff Chow1:30:00

Um so the way the zoning bylaw defines defines what a front lot line is, it's the narrowest um lot line on on a street.

Jeff Chow1:30:10

That is the cul-de-sac end of the property.

Jeff Chow1:30:12

So what we're looking at here, uh because so the the proposed bylaw and the previous bylaw looked at the site differently.

Jeff Chow1:30:20

Um so this bylaw um the uh so this bylaw um considers the driveway, the far left side of the building to the front lot line, and in which case the uh the setback was was seven and a half meters back then and uh so it wasn't was not reduced from ten meters.

Jeff Chow1:30:40

The the the development permit that was approved was for a building that might be seven and a half meters from the townhouses.

Jeff Chow1:30:46

The proposal is for 5.4 meters, which is a difference of 2.1 meters, which is uh six or seven feet.

John Rogers1:30:55

So and let me put it another way.

John Rogers1:30:57

Um when I'm again I'm looking at your proposed zoning on uh document uh page seven, and uh you show us that the uh the side flanking, which is Urskin Lane, uh I guess that's you know the part facing the cul-de-sac, um the setback is six meters, and there's no change, so it's six meters.

John Rogers1:31:17

So wouldn't would is it possible that the building could shift down towards the cul-de-sac by one meter?

John Rogers1:31:24

So the the the setback from Erskine Lane where there's no houses to five meters, thus giving us an additional one meter or s you know, um away from Fortune Erskine Lane?

Jeff Chow1:31:37

Uh through you, your worship.

Jeff Chow1:31:39

The the left hand side of the the building here, that space is actually a driveway the driveway access to the rear of the property.

Jeff Chow1:31:44

It's already as close as it can be to the to the cul-de-sac.

Jeff Chow1:31:46

So they're they're out of space.

John Rogers1:31:54

See.

John Rogers1:31:55

So again, we could give them part of the road.

John Rogers1:32:00

Our loss, not not uh to save the uh the tenants or the number 14.

John Rogers1:32:06

All right, interesting.

John Rogers1:32:08

Um you you're I'm pleased to see that um uh and I gather there's an agreement with the applicant to um widen the um trail down to the galloping goose.

John Rogers1:32:19

Um, you know, but I don't uh is there a design uh that uh the town has or the CRD has provided us design specs for uh that trail to widen it for bikes and pedestrians uh through your worship now the covenant would be uh requires them to provide that and that design would be subject to approval by the town okay thank you that's all the questions I have for you good okay well I don't change so yeah if you'd like to come up please to the podium and give us your name and affiliations and all right is this working I think so okay yeah um yeah, through your worship.

Eleni Gibson1:33:04

Uh, my name is Elaine Gibson.

Eleni Gibson1:33:06

I work with Wiser Projects, and we're the development consultants for this project, um, which is owned by Parsi Development who are local developers.

Eleni Gibson1:33:14

Um, yeah, so I'll I'll go through the questions.

Eleni Gibson1:33:17

I think I caught everything there.

Eleni Gibson1:33:19

Um, I think Jeff did a great presentation for all of the technical issues, so thank you, Jeff.

Eleni Gibson1:33:25

Um, the first question was about um the trees of the building uh and the height and how that is going to be impacted or viewed from the townhouse lot.

Eleni Gibson1:33:34

Um, and it can be hard to tell how these are actually gonna feel and look once they're built out from these diagrams.

Eleni Gibson1:33:41

Um, but in terms of how the change is gonna feel compared to what the current zoning allows, which is three three stories, um, those upper floors, because we've stepped the fourth and fifth floor back further from the lot line, they're gonna have very little visibility over and into the townhouse property at all.

Eleni Gibson1:33:59

They might just see some of the roof lines, but they're not going to be able to see into the yards really or into the units at all.

Eleni Gibson1:34:06

So that step back with sort of the deck on the third floor ensures that there's privacy on both sides for both the new tenants and the existing tenants in the townhouses.

Eleni Gibson1:34:16

In terms of the trees between the properties, I believe that any trees that are on the townhouse side will remain.

Eleni Gibson1:34:24

Those should be able to be saved as long as the root zones aren't larger than anticipated.

Eleni Gibson1:34:29

And initially, when we submitted this application, the landscape concept, which again would be pinned down during development permit, but what we had proposed on that side was a hedge.

Eleni Gibson1:34:41

But since the first public engagement meeting and speaking to the neighbors and looking at the site a little bit more, it should be possible with the parking structure to allow enough space there to actually plant full-size trees.

Eleni Gibson1:34:54

So we should be able to replace some trees along that property boundary, which again would add to the privacy for both the new and existing tenants.

Eleni Gibson1:35:04

And then in terms of the first three floors, as mentioned, it's roughly a 10 meter separation.

Eleni Gibson1:35:12

The townhouses only have a 4.4 meter setback from that lot line, so they're already fairly close to the lot line, but it wouldn't be, you know, a significant difference in the feel between the current zoning and what's proposed.

Eleni Gibson1:35:26

The setback is a little bit smaller, but the replacement of those trees will really help with that.

Eleni Gibson1:35:29

We did hear from neighbors that and everybody always feels that we want to save the trees.

Eleni Gibson1:35:30

It'll add some greenery.

Eleni Gibson1:35:36

So I think, you know, our feeling is that obviously it'll be change, it'll be a change in perspective, but it won't be too big of an impact on the privacy, which is what we heard concerns from the neighbors about.

Eleni Gibson1:35:51

And then in terms of the engagement and the turnout that we had and what we heard, we initially for the November meeting, we dropped off flyers at all of the townhouse uh units, as well as single family homes, you know, on the corner of Watkiss and Erskine, and then even the subdivision on the other side of that road.

Eleni Gibson1:36:11

Um, the turnout, we only got folks from this the townhouses at 14 Erskine.

Eleni Gibson1:36:15

Um, I think the first meeting, there was roughly seven people there.

Eleni Gibson1:36:19

Um, and we did get a comment that some folks would much prefer in-person engagement.

Eleni Gibson1:36:25

People were feeling Zoom fatigued.

Eleni Gibson1:36:27

Um, they feel you know, in-person is a more productive way.

Eleni Gibson1:36:31

So we took that um into account.

Eleni Gibson1:36:33

And we did offer for the second engagement that was just recently held to have it in person, um, look like on their strata in their community hall.

Eleni Gibson1:36:43

But when we were holding it, the vaccine passports were still in effect.

Eleni Gibson1:36:47

Um, and so because of that, they actually requested a virtual engagement again for that.

Eleni Gibson1:36:51

Um, and that one, I believe, we had five or six people turn out.

Eleni Gibson1:36:55

Um it sounds like they are um as a whole, you know, there's a lot going on, and there was a lot of engagement for 9 Erskine Lane across the street.

Eleni Gibson1:36:59

So perhaps people were a little bit burnt out from that.

Eleni Gibson1:37:07

And that might be why we didn't get more turnout.

Eleni Gibson1:37:10

I am in contact with the Strata Council there though, and have offered to have phone calls or meetings with anyone that has concerns.

Eleni Gibson1:37:21

But again, the the concerns were about the scale of change.

Eleni Gibson1:37:25

There was one or two residents that were from the townhouses that face directly onto that lot, and privacy and shading were the concerns.

Eleni Gibson1:37:33

And so that was really the driver of this design change that you see.

Eleni Gibson1:37:36

Previously, the fourth floor would have been right up in line with the rest of the building, and only the fifth floor was stepped back.

Eleni Gibson1:37:43

And so pulling that back really makes the feel of the building from the townhouses closer to the current zoning as close as possible.

Eleni Gibson1:37:52

And both meetings folks really expressed the desire for community amenities to be focused in the local area to with the idea that it's supposed to offset impacts of development and provide amenities for that local community.

Eleni Gibson1:38:08

So we we communicated that to staff, and we're happy to see that the sidewalk, which was part of the original development permit, would be tied to this as well.

Eleni Gibson1:38:18

And the trail connector for the galloping goose, that was also brought up specifically by residents.

Eleni Gibson1:38:22

So we're also happy to see that that's one of the community amenities that we would be committing to.

Eleni Gibson1:38:26

I'm also a cyclist and I've used that trail, and it's very narrow and awkward to get off to.

Eleni Gibson1:38:32

So personally, I'm excited about that as well.

Eleni Gibson1:38:36

In terms of climate action and the step code, we haven't gotten that far in the planning process yet because this is just a rezoning, so just for the land use and the density.

Eleni Gibson1:38:49

We haven't had deep conversations about step code requirements or you know, heating and cooling systems.

Eleni Gibson1:38:57

But I think our client is interested in providing um comfortable and safe housing and and looking at all the options.

Eleni Gibson1:39:06

A lot of municipalities, I'm actually not immediately familiar with View Royal's requirements, but in a lot of municipalities, we're already looking for step code three um and sometimes the jump to get to step code four um depending on the the site and the building specifics um it's not too much of a jump in terms of the cost to the developer um so it's something we'll look into um and and pursue a little bit further um there's a question about the screening and what that would look like um it uh the this would be sort of pinned down during the development permit again but the proposal is um sort of a corrugated metal look um a patterned metal um yeah, you can see there.

Eleni Gibson1:39:50

So if you were sitting on the balconies of this new building, unless you were right up against those screens, you wouldn't really be seeing any activity um at 14 Skin Lane in the townhouse property.

Eleni Gibson1:40:03

If you're just sitting out there enjoying your balcony, you're gonna have privacy from those units, and vice versa.

Eleni Gibson1:40:09

And the uh the community uh had mixed feelings.

Eleni Gibson1:40:13

Some of them really liked them, some felt it wasn't enough privacy.

Eleni Gibson1:40:16

Um, they felt like you could still see through them too easily.

Eleni Gibson1:40:19

Um, but I think the actual product that would be used, it would be sort of the aim would be that you wouldn't be seeing a lot of activity outside of it unless you're right up close to it, which most people hopefully wouldn't be doing.

Eleni Gibson1:40:31

Um, and I believe the rest of the questions were directed at staff, and I think those were answered pretty well about the setbacks and the design for the trail to the galloping goose.

Eleni Gibson1:40:41

Um, but I'm happy to answer any other questions or clarifications if there are any.

David Screech1:40:44

Yeah, good one.

David Screech1:40:45

Yeah, well, thank you.

David Screech1:40:46

You did a very good job of the ones that were asked.

David Screech1:40:50

Councillor Matson.

Ron Mattson1:40:52

I mean, one of my concerns when we have uh a project is you know what amenities are there on site for the residents, and then number nine, they've got a whole bunch of areas for the public for the residents can actually go to on that site.

Ron Mattson1:41:05

What is what have you got here for them?

Eleni Gibson1:41:07

Yeah, thank you.

Eleni Gibson1:41:08

Um, through through the mayor.

Eleni Gibson1:41:10

Um, this this building is in the scheme of multi-family buildings, still relatively small with 43 units.

Eleni Gibson1:41:17

And so the current design doesn't have like a specific amenity room that some larger projects might have.

Eleni Gibson1:41:23

You know, once you get to the 100 unit count, that's pretty uh pretty common to see.

Eleni Gibson1:41:28

Um, but I think that the the site itself, all the units will have balconies, um, which doesn't always happen on multifamily buildings, and the location of the site is so desirable that I think there's enough amenities through parks and trail access, um, services and transit um that those those specific amenities are less necessary.

Eleni Gibson1:41:50

Um yeah, I think I think the balconies would be the the biggest private ones for the residents alone.

Ron Mattson1:41:56

There's no like play area for kids or places people can go sit on on the on the grass, park benches, those sorts of things.

Eleni Gibson1:42:03

No, and unfortunately it is a bit of a tight site.

Eleni Gibson1:42:05

Um, and because we're now um providing that right of way against Erskine Lane to be able to widen the road, it's tightened the site a little bit further.

Eleni Gibson1:42:14

Um, so to be able to meet the parking requirements um and provide the density that we're looking for, there's not a lot of space, unfortunately, for sort of common outdoor common areas on the site.

Speaker_Unknown1:42:24

Thank you.

Speaker_021:42:27

Okay, Councilor Rogers.

John Rogers1:42:28

Yeah, thanks.

John Rogers1:42:29

Um I'd asked about um um the transportation advisory or sorry, the transportation report spoke of uh ideas like bike share.

John Rogers1:42:38

Is that is that something that uh your clients will um bring to uh uh the tenants?

Eleni Gibson1:42:44

Yeah, so through the mayor, um that's not something that we've discussed previously, but I we did note that in the transportation impact assessment.

Eleni Gibson1:42:52

Um it's not something the developer has done in the past either, so it'd be breaking new ground to see how it would work.

Eleni Gibson1:42:58

Um it's definitely something we're willing to look into and see how it might work logistically.

Eleni Gibson1:43:14

And the logistics of managing a bike share would be different in either case.

John Rogers1:43:25

I mean that's one of the things that number nine um uh up there up the road from you.

John Rogers1:43:29

Uh they've they've been uh you know we were very impressed with their uh approach on that and and getting keeping uh the people out of cars as much as possible.

John Rogers1:43:39

Um and you're right next to the galloping goose, so uh I think that would be a um something I would look forward to uh hearing back that uh yes indeed the the uh I think with number nine we did um that was part of the development permit process rather than the rezoning process.

John Rogers1:43:58

Yeah, yeah, so it's definitely something to work on.

John Rogers1:44:01

And um hopefully by this time we'll with number seven, number nine and and yours, um modal sharing, car sharing would be um uh something that they they'd finally be willing to pick up on.

John Rogers1:44:11

You know, one of the huge advantages for this location is the elementary school.

John Rogers1:44:16

So close.

John Rogers1:44:17

But you don't have any three bedrooms.

Eleni Gibson1:44:20

Yeah, through the mayor.

Eleni Gibson1:44:21

Um that comment came up, I think, at committee of the whole when this project came through, or maybe even I had done a delegation before the the staff report back in the fall.

Eleni Gibson1:44:29

And the project architect after that comment did manage to rework it a little bit.

Eleni Gibson1:44:34

And it's possible to fit at least one three-bedroom.

Eleni Gibson1:44:38

And there's a couple of units that are two bedrooms plus a den, but it's only a den because it doesn't have an exterior facing window.

Eleni Gibson1:44:46

So, you know, two bedroom units can work for young families depending on the situation.

Eleni Gibson1:44:51

And there should be space for one three bedroom.

Eleni Gibson1:44:55

Unfortunately, again, because of the site constraints and sort of the economics of the site, it becomes challenging to fit in.

Eleni Gibson1:45:01

But it's something that this developer definitely is looking to do is to provide family units wherever possible.

Eleni Gibson1:45:08

So we'll keep looking at that through the development permit stage.

Eleni Gibson1:45:11

And if there's anywhere to squeeze it, we would definitely look at that.

John Rogers1:45:14

Okay.

John Rogers1:45:15

In your letter correspondence to us, you spoke of two options.

John Rogers1:45:19

It was option one, option two.

John Rogers1:45:21

Is this what are we looking at here?

Eleni Gibson1:45:23

Yeah, through the mayor.

Eleni Gibson1:45:24

So this is option two.

Eleni Gibson1:45:26

So in my our correspondence, the developer's preference was that original design that you would have seen at Committee of the Whole.

Eleni Gibson1:45:34

It just in terms of building design, it's a more balanced look and it provides actually more sort of amenity space for individual units because the top floor units would have those bigger rooftop balconies or patios.

Eleni Gibson1:45:49

Whereas this design uh limits that to just the couple units on the fourth floor.

Eleni Gibson1:45:54

Um, however, we we wanted to to look at a design that did meet the or address the concerns of the neighbors.

Eleni Gibson1:46:02

Um, and in talking with staff, they recommended that we just move forward with one option.

Eleni Gibson1:46:06

Um just to simplify, and this is the one that that does hopefully meet the meet the needs of the neighbors.

Eleni Gibson1:46:14

Um so this is what we've presented today.

John Rogers1:46:16

Okay, all right.

John Rogers1:46:17

Thanks for the clarification.

John Rogers1:46:18

Thank you, worship.

John Rogers1:46:19

Great.

David Screech1:46:20

Everyone else is good, good.

David Screech1:46:22

Thank you very much.

Eleni Gibson1:46:23

Thank you.

David Screech1:46:24

So, I mean, I guess the the big question on this is I mean, when you boil it right down, is that they're zoned to do the three stories than the 30 units.

David Screech1:46:36

And so the question is the whether we're allowing the extra height and the extra units and receiving the sidewalk and the community amenity funds in in return.

David Screech1:46:44

But anyhow, I just throw that out there.

David Screech1:46:50

But we we there is a staff recommendation there if someone's proposed to is prepared to move it.

John Rogers1:46:57

Yes, move.

David Screech1:46:59

Okay.

David Screech1:47:00

So move by Councillor Rogers.

David Screech1:47:01

Is there a second her?

David Screech1:47:03

I'll second it.

David Screech1:47:04

So it's moved and seconded staff's recommendation.

David Screech1:47:07

So discussion.

John Rogers1:47:09

Yeah.

John Rogers1:47:09

I think the the if I may, which I thought, I think we've gone as far enough as we can.

John Rogers1:47:14

Um I I appreciate um the applicant uh having the two open houses, but now it's time for us to hear from the community.

John Rogers1:47:21

See what they say.

David Screech1:47:22

Okay, yeah, I concur.

David Screech1:47:24

I'm I'm fine with sending it forward to a public hearing.

David Screech1:47:27

Others, Councillor Mattson?

Ron Mattson1:47:29

Yeah, I mean, from my perspective, it it's way it's too much building for the site.

Ron Mattson1:47:35

Um and and I really have a concern about what what it's gonna look like from the adjacent site, and I really don't like the loss coming closer to the the property line and and the loss of uh the tree barriers.

Ron Mattson1:47:50

Um so you know going to public hearing is one thing, but from my perspective, like like there's not enough in there for me.

Ron Mattson1:48:01

Uh I mean, I'm really not happy with it enough that I would actually support it at this point in time.

Ron Mattson1:48:06

You know, if the residents come out and say that they're happy with it, um, because that would change my mind.

Ron Mattson1:48:11

But if I've you know, from my perspective, if the residents come out and say they're unhappy and have concerns, I won't be able to support this.

Ron Mattson1:48:14

But I'd have to see what the residents say.

David Screech1:48:21

Yeah, I think that's fair enough.

David Screech1:48:23

I mean, I think it's important that the residents understand when this goes forward to public hearing that presuming it does.

David Screech1:48:32

The the amenities that are, you know, the fact that the 30 units, I mean, that's done.

David Screech1:48:37

So there's no all they need to do for that is is apply for a development permit.

David Screech1:48:43

So the difference is whether or not for that extra height in resident, the unit numbers that we want to get the sidewalk.

David Screech1:48:50

And I think that's an important question of whether that trade-off is is worth it personally.

David Screech1:48:57

But just use other people I'm not I'm not arguing your your point.

David Screech1:48:59

I'm just saying that's the kind of decision that has to be made.

John Rogers1:49:07

Yeah.

John Rogers1:49:08

And and and certainly in 2008, um the sidewalk was a critical component for um.

John Rogers1:49:13

Yeah, absolutely.

David Screech1:49:14

Yeah, yeah, why it was approved.

John Rogers1:49:16

Yeah, and it's it's unfortunate back then that um we um had missed the um uh getting the covenant, but um now those bases are covered and that won't happen again.

David Screech1:49:25

Yeah.

David Screech1:49:26

On my left.

Gery Lemon1:49:28

Well, I want to thank Ms.

Gery Lemon1:49:29

Gibson for your your openness and um for listening and for your candor.

Gery Lemon1:49:35

Um I I struggle with any more density on Earth.

Gery Lemon1:49:42

And um on the other hand, I do want to hear what the residents have to say.

Gery Lemon1:49:47

So I I will, you know, with my vote won't necessarily reflect my approval of the project, but my agreement that it should go to public hearing.

David Screech1:50:02

Damien do you want to add anything?

Damian Kowalewich1:50:05

Yeah I guess the only other consideration is uh when making this decision in the future uh obviously hearing from our constituents is is priority and uh the most important thing but uh we do have an opportunity to add more and I know I've said this in the past dare I say it affordable uh you know moderate level housing by adding the extra units as well so it's just consideration right yeah you know it's yeah yeah we're over uh we're giving the variance right but you're also providing 13 more potential families homes okay so i'm gonna call the question on moving staff's recommendation all in favor opposed so that's carried and then we need first and second of bylaw 1093 moved by councillor rogers, seconded by Councilor Kualovich.

David Screech1:51:05

All in favor, opposed.

David Screech1:51:08

That's carried.

David Screech1:51:09

Good.

David Screech1:51:10

Thank you, Steph.

David Screech1:51:11

Thank you for coming and speaking to us.

David Screech1:51:13

And next we're on to our favorite topic: election signs and logo usage.

David Screech1:51:25

Which I'm sure will be a captivating discussion.

David Screech1:51:28

Sarah, are you gonna lead us off?

Sarah Jones1:51:31

I can certainly do that, your worship.

Sarah Jones1:51:34

This will actually be a very quick conversation.

Sarah Jones1:51:37

Uh it feels like one of those uh serial shows where I say, since since we've last spoken about this topic, uh, which was in April at the committee of the whole meeting, uh, council or the committee then asked for additional zones and clarification around the use, uh clarification on the number of signs.

Sarah Jones1:51:57

So this report discusses the addition of two additional sign zones shown in the bylaw as sign zone four, and we'll talk about that in a minute, and sign zone nine.

Sarah Jones1:52:08

And as well, it gives very clear information about the number of signs and the sign types, then in those sign zones.

Sarah Jones1:52:19

So we'll we'll talk about that.

Sarah Jones1:52:22

As well, you will see in front of you the MTI amendment, which wasn't provided but was discussed in the April report to the Committee of the Whole.

Sarah Jones1:52:32

And so we can talk, and perhaps uh Carl produce webcast producer, if you will show us uh the sign zones, and we'll just look quickly at those.

Sarah Jones1:52:44

And while you're doing that, I'll talk about the number of signs.

Sarah Jones1:52:47

The draft bylaw now before you talks about large signs, meaning in the bylaw that you looked at in April, the draft bylaw did discuss this, which is a large sign zone is an election sign with a sign face that does not exceed, and we're going to use imperial four feet by four feet, and having a height that doesn't exceed eight feet as measured from the grade, and I'm going to paraphrase here to the top of the sign or its supporting structure, whichever is greater.

Sarah Jones1:53:21

The bylaw also discusses small signs, and again we'll use imperial, and a small sign has each sign face, keeping in mind that an election sign can have just a double side.

Sarah Jones1:53:33

So you see it on both sides as you go along either side of the road when you're traveling.

Sarah Jones1:53:39

So each sign face not to exceed two feet by two feet, height not to exceed 3.6 feet as measured from the grade to the top of the sign or its supporting structure, again, whichever is greater.

Sarah Jones1:53:52

And so that is for the small signs, the normal ones that you'd see in the wire frame that is traditional or typical these days for those types of signs.

Sarah Jones1:54:03

And so the bylaw goes on to talk about where or the number of these signs.

Sarah Jones1:54:12

So election signs are permitted or not permitted anywhere on town land or on town equipment, building structures, and my favorite word, and appurtenances there too, except for the areas within the nine sign zones that are identified in Schedule A, and we're going to flip through those on the screen in a minute, and with the following conditions.

Sarah Jones1:54:36

A a candidate, elector organization, or third party advertising sponsor may place up to one large sign in a large sign area to a maximum of five signs in the town.

Sarah Jones1:54:50

So those are those four by four, eight feet tall.

Sarah Jones1:54:53

And a sign area is different than a sign zone, and you we'll see that in the in the maps in a minute.

Sarah Jones1:55:01

A and and the same group of people, candidate, elector organization, or third-party advertising sponsor may place up to three small signs in each sign zone to a maximum of 27 signs in the town.

Sarah Jones1:55:15

So five large, 27 of the small ones.

Sarah Jones1:55:19

The five large can go in in only in the large sign areas.

Sarah Jones1:55:28

I don't know if we have five or six large sign areas identified in the maps, but basically trying to limit those to those, you know, one one per the area, but no more than five, and then three on each of these zones that we're going to look at.

Sarah Jones1:55:46

So this gives you the overview in the bylaw as to trying to get good coverage.

Sarah Jones1:55:51

Try to keep in mind when we were placing these or selecting these when I was discussing them with the engineering department and the deputy corporate officer.

Sarah Jones1:56:02

Things that made sense where they might have issues of safety, issues of well, what is will it interfere with traffic maneuvers or pedestrians or that type of thing.

Sarah Jones1:56:16

So we tried to keep these in mind when we were selecting them.

Sarah Jones1:56:19

So some of these zones you will have seen, so we'll get to we'll flip to assign zone four.

Sarah Jones1:56:26

Just transition to that, please, Carl.

Sarah Jones1:56:28

So we'll go, they're in order here.

Sarah Jones1:56:29

Well, I guess we'll go slowly.

Sarah Jones1:56:30

So we have sign zone one.

Sarah Jones1:56:34

Sign zone one, two, here is at the corner, three and four.

Sarah Jones1:56:39

So here we are.

Sarah Jones1:56:40

We'll park here for a minute.

Sarah Jones1:56:43

So this is uh by Eagle Creek Village.

Sarah Jones1:56:46

So it's a small sign area.

Sarah Jones1:56:49

Uh it's sign zone four.

Sarah Jones1:56:52

The discussion at the last meeting was could we go away and find something on Burnside Road West?

Sarah Jones1:57:00

When I talked with the engineering department about Burnside Road West, and the report discusses this, um, it was determined it would not be suitable necessarily for election signs because of sight line and safety issues, because of its width, high traffic volumes, substandard pet and cycling facilities, hit and hidden driveways.

Sarah Jones1:57:19

And so instead we looked at what might be more suitable on Helmkin and have located this area for small sign zones.

David Screech1:57:29

On that one, just for example, and I'm not trying to be contrary, but if you go on the other side where you're onto the island health and provincial properties, then I'm presuming that those areas would not be covered by the bylaw, anyways.

David Screech1:57:46

Right, right?

David Screech1:57:47

If a candidate chose to do that.

Sarah Jones1:57:49

Do you mean by on the hospital side?

David Screech1:57:52

Yeah.

Sarah Jones1:57:53

The ministry has a specific section or did in the past rules around signage on ministry lands.

Sarah Jones1:57:59

And so it would be a good thing.

David Screech1:58:04

Well, okay, but barring that in the past, it's always been on provincial lands, a free for all if one chose.

David Screech1:58:11

So the town, what I'm what I'm asking is that basically is that the town would have no jurisdiction over the lands south of Watkasway.

Sarah Jones1:58:24

On ministry lands, it's it would be considered private land.

David Screech1:58:27

Right.

David Screech1:58:28

Okay.

Sarah Jones1:58:29

But the ministry does have their own set of rules about it.

David Screech1:58:31

Yeah, I don't, yeah, no, I yeah, I realize that, but yeah, thank you.

David Screech1:58:35

Yeah.

David Screech1:58:35

Councillor Mattson.

Ron Mattson1:58:37

So just that I've got this straight.

Ron Mattson1:58:39

So for example, on that spot you've got there, that's number what, five or something?

Ron Mattson1:58:44

No, four so potentially if we have 10 or 11 people running we could have on that little strip 30 to 33 signs with each of them with their maximum of three per area right you could it's 41 meters so yeah so yeah it could be busy yeah and you won't be able to so in the olden days we could use that nice median in the middle but we we no longer can yeah, no, the medium's not part of it.

Ron Mattson1:59:20

Okay.

David Screech1:59:21

I I think it's important to note on this.

David Screech1:59:24

Yeah, I just yeah.

David Screech1:59:28

I I mean this is only my own, and I know Sarah's put a huge amount of work into this, but I mean it has worked in the past in the elections, although we so whether or not we really want to I don't know.

David Screech1:59:41

Anyhow, we'll let Sarah go through and then we'll we'll have our discussion of whether we want to go down this path.

Sarah Jones1:59:48

Okay, and then uh web webcast producer, maybe just slowly proceed through the the other zones.

Sarah Jones1:59:55

We'll get to to nine then.

Sarah Jones1:59:57

So this is the one can you go back one?

Sarah Jones2:00:00

We'll just go a little bit more slowly.

Sarah Jones2:00:01

So this is Watkiss at Eagle Creek Park.

Sarah Jones2:00:04

So both a large and a small.

Sarah Jones2:00:06

We we looked at these in in April.

Sarah Jones2:00:08

Oh yeah six so yeah so this is which color is large large is green okay thank you and then zone six next slide burnside west and Watkiss way and um again we have the two two um different types of areas shown on this map so this is that um what what is blue there sorry fire hydrant yeah yeah um and and we want to just show those clearly so people knew where they were so they were um marked out by the GIS department for us.

David Screech2:00:47

Yeah, go ahead.

Gery Lemon2:00:48

So Sarah, the purple um three signs.

Gery Lemon2:00:54

That's would be if you wanted to use all three signs, that's one in each area of purple, not three signs or whatever, but not three signs, three signs, three signs, right?

Sarah Jones2:01:06

It's 27 signs in the municipality and three signs per zone.

Gery Lemon2:01:11

Okay, got it.

Sarah Jones2:01:12

So you could put your three signs in the skinny little spot by Eagle's Nest Cafe or whatever, Eagle's whatever cafe that's called.

Sarah Jones2:01:23

Or you could put one per each of those purpley areas.

Gery Lemon2:01:27

Understood.

Gery Lemon2:01:28

Yeah.

Gery Lemon2:01:28

Thank you.

Sarah Jones2:01:29

Or none.

Sarah Jones2:01:29

It's a maximum.

Sarah Jones2:01:31

So uh next slide.

Sarah Jones2:01:36

So here we are at Atkins at six mile.

Sarah Jones2:01:40

And this is large sign area.

Sarah Jones2:01:42

And again, this shows two different areas within this zone.

Sarah Jones2:01:48

Doesn't it?

Sarah Jones2:01:49

And there is a five large signs per municip per the entire municipality.

Sarah Jones2:01:55

Um and one per zone.

Sarah Jones2:01:58

So you would, you know, if you're choosing this area, you would probably pick one or the other.

Sarah Jones2:02:05

Next slide.

Sarah Jones2:02:08

Zone eight is Chilco at six mile.

Sarah Jones2:02:11

And again, it has both a large and a small area.

Sarah Jones2:02:15

Next slide.

Sarah Jones2:02:16

Oh, just oh, sorry, go back one.

Ron Mattson2:02:18

So on the large one.

Sarah Jones2:02:20

Yeah.

Ron Mattson2:02:20

Can you put your small signs on the large area?

Ron Mattson2:02:23

If it's that one area?

Sarah Jones2:02:24

Yep.

Ron Mattson2:02:25

Okay, so you put your small signs on either side of the street.

Ron Mattson2:02:28

Yeah.

Ron Mattson2:02:28

Okay, got it.

Gery Lemon2:02:29

There you go.

Gery Lemon2:02:29

If you don't have any large signs.

Ron Mattson2:02:35

Well, I'm so and next slide, please.

Sarah Jones2:02:44

And then this is the last newly added area when there was a request could we add uh something along Island Highway?

Sarah Jones2:02:50

Because when we talked about it in April, there's quite a bit of construction in several areas.

Sarah Jones2:02:55

And I had said, well, let's come back to Island Highway.

Sarah Jones2:02:58

So we relooked at Island Highway.

Sarah Jones2:03:00

Where is it not going to be in a construction zone in the in the near future?

Sarah Jones2:03:05

So this is near 16, looks like 75 or 71.

Sarah Jones2:03:10

I can't see the number on my screen, but that's right by the used car lot on the back side of the sidewalk.

Sarah Jones2:03:18

There's quite a large grassy boulevard between the property line and the sidewalk.

David Screech2:03:24

Yeah, I know that Car lot.

David Screech2:03:26

He's a big fan of all of council, so I'm quite sure that he'll be very pleased with having off the side in front of his business.

Sarah Jones2:03:39

Well, it's a good thing the signage would be on municipal properties.

David Screech2:03:43

Right.

David Screech2:03:43

Yeah.

Ron Mattson2:03:45

Nobody goes there anyway from Bureau.

David Screech2:03:48

Well, they certainly drive a lot.

David Screech2:03:50

Yeah, gosh.

Ron Mattson2:03:52

Do they what?

Ron Mattson2:03:53

To the casino?

David Screech2:03:54

Well, and home from Costco and things.

David Screech2:03:57

You would you would presume.

David Screech2:03:59

Okay.

Sarah Jones2:03:59

And that and that's the last of the the nine zones.

David Screech2:04:04

Who's that science could be so much about so the overarching thing on this, I guess one is I mean, if if we adopt this, will enforcement of it truly because I I have to say, I mean, I just find the the idea that our staff would go out and patrol this a just a complete and utter waste of staff time.

David Screech2:04:27

So would it truly be complaint driven?

Ron Mattson2:04:31

No.

Ron Mattson2:04:31

Staff should look at it.

Ron Mattson2:04:32

Well, we will be complaining.

David Screech2:04:34

Well, I'm no, I'm asking staff the the policy on it.

David Screech2:04:37

Yeah, no, candidates may complain for sure.

David Screech2:04:40

And I suppose that would be a complaint, but what I'm asking is that our staff would not be driving out and around to see if there's two small signs outside of a small sign zone.

David Screech2:04:53

Because I just don't see it as a protective use of few royal staff time.

Ron Mattson2:04:58

I could be taking your signs and putting them where they should be.

David Screech2:05:00

Well, that's you and I can sort that out behind the shed, as they say.

Sarah Jones2:05:16

So if there's a but that would be no different than it was in the last election or three elections ago.

Sarah Jones2:05:21

So something is a uh an impediment to traffic or PES or cyclists, it would be dealt with immediately or very quickly.

Sarah Jones2:05:38

As are most of our bylaws.

Speaker_Unknown2:05:41

Okay.

David Screech2:05:41

So if some poor misguided candidate did happen to put one of their small signs outside the boundaries.

David Screech2:05:51

Yeah, anyhow.

David Screech2:05:52

Okay, thank you.

David Screech2:05:53

Questions for staff?

David Screech2:05:56

Councillor Rogers.

John Rogers2:05:59

I guess you know it there may be some candidates that won't have any large signs.

John Rogers2:06:06

There's a total of 27 signs, right?

John Rogers2:06:08

Right.

John Rogers2:06:09

27 plus five.

John Rogers2:06:11

32.

John Rogers2:06:12

So if if a candidate chooses not to have large signs, wouldn't it be reasonable that they could put a small sign?

John Rogers2:06:20

Therefore they'd have you know 32 as opposed to 27.

John Rogers2:06:26

When you add up the total number of signs, right?

John Rogers2:06:30

Wouldn't that be fair?

John Rogers2:06:34

I'm not sure that the nuance of a bylaw can get that particular well, you know, it's I think it's um uh you know it you know, a sign is a sign is a sign, and and signs certainly small signs are a lot less impactful, if you like, than than the large signs.

John Rogers2:06:51

But you know, it's um I just wanted it to be fair in the sense that you know the the individual that only had small signs would not uh be um you know penalized.

John Rogers2:07:02

But I'm sure you you know the staff aren't gonna count.

John Rogers2:07:04

I think that we're missing an area.

John Rogers2:07:07

Um I know that you said um in the report that uh Admirals is um a problem, but um I would like us to look at Aldersmith because there's a whole area, all those townhouses there, you know, the people in the two and that are going to and from Admiral's Walk Shopping Center.

John Rogers2:07:28

I and I'm I'm not thinking of a stretch where people, 10 people would put in three signs each, but at least be able to put in one sign each um on Ad um Aldersmith to let the But don't you think we're beginning to micromanage a little bit too much if we're we're thinking of specific neighborhoods.

David Screech2:07:51

I mean, all you have to do as a candidate is go talk to the stratus and see if you can put a can a sign right at their property up at the but these are status.

John Rogers2:07:59

Now strata councils are really, really reticent.

John Rogers2:08:03

They're hesitant.

John Rogers2:08:04

I've done that with strata councils before.

John Rogers2:08:07

Nine, nothing, zip.

John Rogers2:08:10

You can't do anything with stratus.

John Rogers2:08:11

And um, which I understand, and certainly if there's 30 candidates, uh then they would say, oh my goodness, no, I I can't possibly.

David Screech2:08:18

All those people going into Aldersmith, they're going to see the signs that are on the corner.

John Rogers2:08:24

Where?

David Screech2:08:24

Down at Admirals and Craigflower.

John Rogers2:08:27

No, there's not there's nothing there.

John Rogers2:08:28

There's nothing there.

John Rogers2:08:28

That is it.

Gery Lemon2:08:29

There's nothing there.

Sarah Jones2:08:32

They don't start until up Can you go back to the key key location map, please?

John Rogers2:08:38

It's four mile.

John Rogers2:08:39

It's actually in front of the town hall is the first zone.

John Rogers2:08:42

So all the and I'm not even talking about Glantana.

John Rogers2:08:46

Um that area.

David Screech2:08:48

I see what you're saying.

John Rogers2:08:49

So they on that entire area, all those residents, if they do not ever come into VO because they got Canadian fire, they got the shop.

David Screech2:08:57

So before we get too far down, I mean I think the bigger question, and again, I apologize to Sarah, because I know you put a lot of work into this, but do we want to go down this route for the the October elections?

David Screech2:09:09

Period, or do we just want to leave the rules as they've been, which have worked, um, and consider revisiting it down the road?

David Screech2:09:18

Councillor Mattson?

Ron Mattson2:09:20

Yeah, I there's nothing uglier than election signs everywhere around the town.

Ron Mattson2:09:24

So I'm quite happy with this.

Ron Mattson2:09:26

Everyone's in the same boat.

Ron Mattson2:09:28

It either works for you or it doesn't work for you.

Ron Mattson2:09:31

I mean, and if you really want to, you just go bang on someone's door and ask them if you can see that.

David Screech2:09:35

Yeah, well, certainly that's part of the idea.

David Screech2:09:37

Yeah.

Ron Mattson2:09:38

Yeah.

Ron Mattson2:09:38

I'm I'm happy having this.

David Screech2:09:39

I think Councillor Rogers' point is fairly well taken, though.

David Screech2:09:42

I must admit, you know, I haven't looked closely enough at them to realize, but if we're not putting anything on the corner around Craigflower Manor, um, then how do we get the word out to all the, you know, there's a lot of residents in Aldersmouth.

John Rogers2:09:57

Um indeed.

John Rogers2:09:59

I suppose you can do the flyers, but it's um yeah, if what flyers people hang on to, um it's uh I I think it's we've done a fairly good coverage here, but most people are gonna be able to drive around, but I don't think you could say that for the people that live in Ellismith.

David Screech2:10:19

Sarah.

Sarah Jones2:10:21

If you would like, I can talk to our engineering department to see if there's something further east towards the corner at Craig Flower Manor, but on Island Highway, that would be suitable in terms of um safety and pad and patent cyclist movements that might be suitable for another location.

David Screech2:10:42

Well, we've certainly always had signs on that corner, and I I don't think they've created any real issues.

John Rogers2:10:49

No, it's a small space, um small sign.

John Rogers2:11:08

Um that takes care of it.

John Rogers2:11:10

And and again, I think you know there's only one for there because it's limited, one sign per candidate, and the job's done.

David Screech2:11:19

Yeah.

David Screech2:11:20

Sure.

Gery Lemon2:11:22

Sure.

John Rogers2:11:23

So yeah, I don't mind giving this a try, you know, and as long as we go to an equitable distribution of locations, um, you know, we might get lucky, some people are going to see them.

David Screech2:11:36

Spend all our time reading the regulations trying to figure out if we're allowed to put a sign out.

David Screech2:11:41

But yeah, no, I'm on my left.

Gery Lemon2:11:44

Yeah, I you know, I I think in previous elections, um, there's sign wars, and and there's a big panic if you don't have it, you know, if you're being outsigned and you go and you go to the printers and you order another.

Gery Lemon2:11:58

Yeah, and I'm not speaking personally because I've only done this once.

Gery Lemon2:12:01

Um, but um, I I think this is gonna be equitable and and um everybody's got the same trends.

David Screech2:12:14

And and yeah, must admit I haven't read this as closely as I wish I had, partly because I haven't been here.

David Screech2:12:21

But so signs on private property, there are there are they included within the the complete total or no?

David Screech2:12:29

No, no, okay.

David Screech2:12:30

No, no.

David Screech2:12:30

So we can get them on as many lawns as we choose.

Ron Mattson2:12:34

As long as you don't put them on the boulevards.

David Screech2:12:37

As long as we don't put them on the boulevards.

David Screech2:12:39

Yeah, this is and of course on provincial property as we choose.

David Screech2:12:43

Yeah.

David Screech2:12:44

I mean counselor Kwalovich.

Damian Kowalewich2:12:46

Yeah, I'm fine with it.

Damian Kowalewich2:12:47

And I yeah, I think I said this last time.

Damian Kowalewich2:12:50

It the best thing about it is it provides every candidate an equal opportunity and doesn't give anyone an unfair advantage financially if they don't have the backing to buy big massive billboards of themselves.

Ron Mattson2:13:04

I mean, I don't know who would ever do that, but so you do that mean you have to cut some of your signs in half.

Sarah Jones2:13:17

Your worship, if if you uh just wish to table this, I can work to see which with engineering would be more optimal, whether it be Aldersmith or at the closer to the intersection, and then I can bring this back at the next council meeting.

David Screech2:13:33

So what I would suggest is that really we should if if Zarah's gonna go to that work to that point, then when it comes back to the next council meeting, we should just simply be doing first, second, and third reading and not having any further discussion or presentation.

David Screech2:13:47

So let's get all the questions out of the way tonight and then Sarah will simply bring it back with one one more zone which will cover the Aldersmith residents.

Ron Mattson2:13:57

Councilor Matson so with the rail you know the underpass yeah because normally there's the the big fight for some people who go nameless to get their big sign on there before anyone else puts them there.

Ron Mattson2:14:09

So is that a is that included because it's not on the list.

Ron Mattson2:14:12

No.

David Screech2:14:13

Well that's not town property.

Ron Mattson2:14:14

So that that's my question.

David Screech2:14:17

So I mean that there's there are going to be loopholes throughout the town that are not town property, and they come under either that the jurisdiction is the the CRD or or the province.

David Screech2:14:30

So maybe those are still gonna be a free for all.

David Screech2:14:33

I don't see anything in here that would stop.

David Screech2:14:35

And I know Sarah's gonna tell me there's provincial restrictions, but they don't.

David Screech2:14:39

You know, if if a candidate wanted to put four four by eight signs on the off ramp on Helmcken, uh I don't see anything that can stop them from doing that.

Ron Mattson2:14:51

So maybe we get staff to, you know, with that orange spray paint to just do the they could cross out cross hatch out the areas that are provincial property for us.

John Rogers2:15:00

So based on the map.

David Screech2:15:02

We we can figure it out ourselves.

John Rogers2:15:04

Yeah.

John Rogers2:15:06

I guess the the question I have is is with respect to um the ticketing bylaw.

John Rogers2:15:12

And uh, you know, the I I'm not sure what we're because you know the fines will be there.

John Rogers2:15:14

If we're gonna pass the the uh ticketing bylaw, you know, that does give um and it's rather an interesting election expense when someone's gonna have to pay nine hundred dollars in fines.

David Screech2:15:30

Yeah, I I don't think we should be fining.

David Screech2:15:32

We should be removing, right?

John Rogers2:15:35

Yeah, I think this is gonna be an honor system.

John Rogers2:15:37

Yeah, you know, this is a trial here, but to hit somebody with a hundred and fifty dollar fine.

David Screech2:15:42

Yeah, I I I I don't think we should be fining.

David Screech2:15:45

I think we should be asking candidates to remove them.

David Screech2:15:48

Is my personal thought.

John Rogers2:15:49

I agree.

Ron Mattson2:15:50

Yeah.

Ron Mattson2:15:50

Or if staff hear a complaint and you'll just take them in.

David Screech2:15:54

Yeah, put them in town hall like we've done in the past.

David Screech2:15:58

Yeah.

David Screech2:15:58

Yeah.

David Screech2:16:00

But so that seems to be the consensus around the table that we don't want to be can't find candidates for um non-compliance with this.

John Rogers2:16:08

Yeah.

David Screech2:16:10

Yeah.

John Rogers2:16:11

I think it's fair enough to tell them.

David Screech2:16:12

Yeah.

John Rogers2:16:13

Yeah, but that'll be uh that'll be good enough.

John Rogers2:16:16

Okay.

David Screech2:16:18

Okay, so does that give you all you need then, Sarah, to bring it back?

David Screech2:16:22

And we will just simply endorse the the one added area.

John Rogers2:16:28

Yeah, right.

John Rogers2:16:29

And then the two bys.

David Screech2:16:31

Councillor Matson.

Ron Mattson2:16:32

So just for clarification, we we're we we jumped from the signs, which we seem to have all agreed to, to the talking about the fines.

Ron Mattson2:16:40

So does that mean I don't have to go through my uh Facebook page that I haven't looked at in four years and say everywhere I see a town logo remove them?

Speaker_002:16:52

Well we're talking, yeah.

Ron Mattson2:16:54

Or is that something separate we're gonna look at?

Gery Lemon2:16:56

That's the bottom, that's 150 unauthorized use of town of URL logo trademark or official mark.

Ron Mattson2:17:02

Yeah, you know what I mean.

David Screech2:17:02

It's like okay.

David Screech2:17:04

So let's so we're good with the signs then.

David Screech2:17:06

So let's go to the the logo use and and what what Sarah is considering for penalties on that.

David Screech2:17:15

I mean, I would have thought that would have been the same.

David Screech2:17:21

I don't know.

David Screech2:17:22

Sarah, do you want to speak to that?

David Screech2:17:23

To right here.

Sarah Jones2:17:26

The bylaw sets out that now uh you're not specific.

Sarah Jones2:17:32

Are you speaking to the question of MTI application to it, or are you speaking to the use of the logo?

John Rogers2:17:39

Use the logo.

Ron Mattson2:17:41

Well, yes.

Ron Mattson2:17:42

Where you have pictures of uh, you know, us looking sexy with her foot up on the fire hall that happens to have a logo there, you know, one of those things or something for me.

Ron Mattson2:17:51

I voted for this fire truck, so you know.

Sarah Jones2:17:55

Um if that was in your election sign or other advertising for the election, and it included a logo, the trademark or official mark of the town, it would not be permitted.

Ron Mattson2:18:08

So just for clarification, election sign.

Ron Mattson2:18:10

I could see no logos on election signs.

Ron Mattson2:18:13

But if you have a website, is that yeah, that that's that's the question I have.

Ron Mattson2:18:20

It's just do we have to worry about pictures on a so the MTIs.

David Screech2:18:24

I'm sorry, you know, I I I really do wish I'd read this more thoroughly because I would have had more um, yeah.

David Screech2:18:31

I didn't realize we were including all these fines for non compliance with signs, and I personally don't think we want to go there.

David Screech2:18:42

I I think the election the the logo is kind of a different issue.

John Rogers2:18:45

Different issue.

David Screech2:18:48

But again, I mean it should be complaint driven.

David Screech2:18:51

Yeah, and it should be complaint driven, and the candidate is asked to remove it from their material if it happens.

Ron Mattson2:18:58

But I mean, if you I mean if someone's foolish enough to have to print the signs up and they've all got the town logo on them, well you gotta you got a new signs.

Ron Mattson2:19:07

Or if your election brochure shouldn't have the that are passed out or whatever it is, maybe that's where you shouldn't have that town logo on.

Ron Mattson2:19:17

That would make sense.

David Screech2:19:18

Well I don't think you should be using the town logo at all on your on your reelection.

David Screech2:19:25

Right?

Ron Mattson2:19:25

But I think the good the question is how one handles it should you but but all I'm trying to say is there's like a couple things we get things that you get made up for the election like brochures and things should be free of the town logo.

Gery Lemon2:19:43

Go ahead council yeah it seems to me Sarah that in the um candidates package uh there is there's information there that thou shalt not use the town logo right right so it's people this is not this is not new correct right yes but but it is new in that there's a fine for it right there is if you wish to retain that portion of the MTI bylaw.

Sarah Jones2:20:17

The MTI bylaws sets out just two sections primarily.

Sarah Jones2:20:25

All the infractions are listed dealing with the signs, and then the final one is dealing with the logo.

David Screech2:20:33

Yeah.

David Screech2:20:35

But I mean, in the in the past, we have not had if if a candidate puts up a sign that we feel interferes with safety, in the past it's been removed.

David Screech2:20:45

We haven't done an M ticket for them.

David Screech2:20:48

So I mean, I personally feel that's not a road we want to go down.

David Screech2:20:52

And I think council in general feels that we want to stick to the same.

David Screech2:20:58

So but just hang on.

David Screech2:20:59

So let's let's just try and give, we need to give clear direction to staff on this, not a scattering of opinions.

David Screech2:21:07

So there is consensus from council that we don't want to go down the road of tickets on fund okay and so on the logo do we want to do the same thing or do we want to do which in the past which is the staff is simply it's it's also being complaint driven yeah yeah it's worth so councillor mattson from my perspective where the difference is if the logo is incidental to a picture of Jerry on her Facebook page or website I mean I don't think that should be an issue right but if if if you've got your brochures and you pass them out and you've got the town logo or that thing up front with View Royal in it with with the logo on it, I mean that shouldn't be.

Ron Mattson2:21:57

I mean, they shouldn't be doing materials that are passed out for the election should be free of logos and things.

David Screech2:22:03

So what you're saying is there are some cases where unofficial use of the town logo is acceptable.

David Screech2:22:11

Seriously, that that is what you're saying.

Ron Mattson2:22:14

Well, yeah, and if it's on your Facebook page or something, do you go through each of your hundreds of pictures that you have on your Facebook page to remove everything that that's that maybe that's like what shouldn't be a problem for you?

David Screech2:22:26

So you never ever even remotely look at doing anything with your Facebook page.

Ron Mattson2:22:31

Well, no, that's what I'm asking, but for everyone else, I mean if you've been, you know, I'm sure I've got some pictures from a few years ago that I have.

John Rogers2:22:39

Okay.

David Screech2:22:41

Counselor Rogers.

John Rogers2:22:43

Yeah, yeah.

Ron Mattson2:22:44

You can't turn off your Facebook.

David Screech2:22:45

We're really down in the weeds here, I would point out to put it mildly.

John Rogers2:22:49

Yeah, and I'm gonna come back to the surface.

John Rogers2:22:51

Um, you know, I still have really clear on this.

John Rogers2:22:53

Is it's um it's anything that's election based, so that when I create an election Twitter account, I collect a you know an election website and I collect a and make a election brochure.

John Rogers2:23:05

I'm gonna stay clear of that the logo.

John Rogers2:23:07

I'm gonna respect the town.

John Rogers2:23:09

That's it.

David Screech2:23:10

So again, I I agree with you.

David Screech2:23:12

I think that's easy enough to do.

David Screech2:23:14

I don't see a problem with doing that.

David Screech2:23:16

But again, do we want somebody who might violate that to be fined, or do we just simply want them to be told, remove the logo from your material?

John Rogers2:23:26

The latter.

David Screech2:23:27

Right.

David Screech2:23:28

Okay, so we're not looking to fine people in general.

David Screech2:23:29

So I think that's that's clear direction on that.

David Screech2:23:34

And I think we all except counselor Matson agree that nobody should be using the town's logo.

Ron Mattson2:23:40

So what I would say is that unless in terms of the finging, if you get told a couple times your you need to remove your the logo from whatever it is, and they say, Well, too bad, then you should be fined.

David Screech2:23:53

Yeah, I don't know that we can we can allow for that in.

David Screech2:23:58

So I I think we're gonna have to leave that for now.

John Rogers2:24:01

I think you know, a new candidate when they were told, they they really you know felt really bad about them.

John Rogers2:24:06

They sorted it out.

David Screech2:24:06

Yeah, I can't imagine a candidate that really wants to get elected telling staff to go pound sand if they tell them to, but at any rate, and I guess I was going to suggest for the MTI bylaw, if there's not an appetite to deal uh to to include signage or the logo at this point, um, maybe it's something that we evaluate in a year from now, see how it how it went.

Sarah Jones2:24:33

I've talked to other municipalities that began without it that now have it because they felt that they needed it.

Sarah Jones2:24:41

So maybe it's something at this point we begin without and see how it goes.

David Screech2:24:47

I agree.

David Screech2:24:48

Yeah, I think that makes sense.

David Screech2:24:50

Yeah, yeah.

David Screech2:24:52

Kim Anema, you're gonna weigh in.

Elena Bolster2:24:56

Recognizing that our our first effort in bylaw enforcement is always getting compliance.

Elena Bolster2:24:59

There's no reason not to have the flies for those that refuse to comply.

David Screech2:25:01

Right.

Elena Bolster2:25:08

So for example a billboard size sign is put up it's not something that staff is just gonna pick up and take with them to city hall town hall.

Elena Bolster2:25:20

Rather we're going to be asking the candidate to remove that sign.

Elena Bolster2:25:23

And if he does he or she does not comply.

Kim Anema2:25:26

Fine would be appropriate.

David Screech2:25:29

Yeah I don't I don't think your mic's working, by the way, but that's fine.

David Screech2:25:33

I don't have any problem hearing you.

David Screech2:25:36

But yeah, I mean it's all about discretion, right?

David Screech2:25:42

Some staff may take your approach, and other staff may um, you know, I mean, it's it's about the future and the staff that are here down the road.

Kim Anema2:25:52

And um what can policy has always been to focus on?

David Screech2:25:57

Yeah.

Kim Anema2:25:58

That has always been the first measure.

John Rogers2:26:02

I say we wait there.

Ron Mattson2:26:03

I agree with staff.

David Screech2:26:07

John.

John Rogers2:26:07

Yeah, it's um I I think it's still um uh likely time consuming because you know, but this is a trial run.

David Screech2:26:15

Yeah, yeah.

David Screech2:26:15

Let's let's let's yeah, let's go.

David Screech2:26:17

Let's leave the fines.

David Screech2:26:18

I think there's there's nodding, except for Counselor Matson, who is always contrary.

David Screech2:26:23

Um, there seems to be consensus to leave the fines and do a review after the fact and see how it works.

David Screech2:26:30

And it's also the other candidates are not going to allow a candidate to, I mean, they're probably going to go out and move the sign for them if that's done.

David Screech2:26:43

Yeah.

John Rogers2:26:45

Peer policing, I think it is, and uh to quote uh Virginia.

David Screech2:26:49

So can we we receive Sarah's report?

David Screech2:26:53

Thank you.

David Screech2:26:54

Second.

David Screech2:26:54

Thank you, sir.

David Screech2:26:55

I know it's being very time consuming.

John Rogers2:26:57

You're getting there.

David Screech2:26:57

We're getting there.

David Screech2:26:58

And next time we're we're not going to have a long discussion about it.

Gery Lemon2:27:02

We're sorry, sir.

David Screech2:27:03

All in favor, opposed.

David Screech2:27:05

That's carried.

David Screech2:27:07

So we need to.

David Screech2:27:09

So for the just for anyone who may be watching, um question period will be coming up quite quickly if you want to call in.

David Screech2:27:18

So the numbers are on the screen, and the question, of course, can be about anything, not just what's on the agenda tonight.

David Screech2:27:26

So then we need adoption of bylaw 1096.

David Screech2:27:30

So that's moved by Councillor Madsen.

David Screech2:27:35

Seconded by Councillor Rogers.

David Screech2:27:37

Everyone's good.

David Screech2:27:38

All in favor?

Gery Lemon2:27:49

Yeah.

David Screech2:27:50

Go ahead.

David Screech2:27:51

Okay, I'll read it or what?

Gery Lemon2:27:53

No, I'm not going to read.

Gery Lemon2:27:54

I well, I could read the rest of the resolution.

Gery Lemon2:27:56

Okay.

Gery Lemon2:27:57

Um, and well, I had a little introduction, but oh, okay.

Gery Lemon2:27:59

Well, let me just do whatever you like.

Gery Lemon2:28:02

Okay, well, the provincial government is coming under fire to fix a crumbling system of family practitioners that now sees reported one million British Columbians, 20% of our population without a doctor to call their own.

Gery Lemon2:28:14

Here in V Royal, this crisis in consistent health care, struck close to home with the recent loss of doctors at Eagle Creek Medical Clinic and closures of walking clinics in neighboring communities.

Gery Lemon2:28:24

Many of us who still have a doctor live with a kind of dread that their doctor will retire or move on to another medical opportunity that will involve less wear and tear, with no one to take their place.

Gery Lemon2:28:35

Canada's healthcare system has been a showpiece for the world.

Gery Lemon2:28:38

We are known for a system in which, whatever your income, whatever your circumstances, you are guaranteed medical care.

Gery Lemon2:28:45

And that does appeal true for the 100,000 people in Greater Victoria who found themselves without a family doctor in recent years and months and now must stand in line at an urgent care center in hopes of seeing a doctor or who encounter at capacity signs at the few remaining walk-in clinics.

Gery Lemon2:29:01

Last week, a MetaMap report identified Greater Victoria as having the longest walk-in clinic wait times in Canada at an average 161 minutes, nearly three hours.

Gery Lemon2:29:11

So we need a solution and we need it soon.

Gery Lemon2:29:13

So, colleagues, I'm hoping you'll support this proposed resolution to the Union of BC municipalities, that BC's local elected officials call on the provincial government to address the doctor's crisis with the same urgency it would any state of emergency in our province and work with doctors of BC and the divisions of family practice to fix it.

Gery Lemon2:29:33

So the resolution reads whereas British Columbia's system, British Columbia's system of family physicians is in crisis, and it is estimated close to one million British Columbians, 20% of the population is without a family doctor and therefore without longitudinal care.

Gery Lemon2:29:49

And whereas many senior citizens, people with chronic health concerns, and those requiring prescription refills and regular health checkups are without a reliable means of care as doctors leave their practices through retirement and for other health care opportunities, walk in clinics close and hospital emergency rooms are overwhelmed.

Gery Lemon2:30:07

Therefore, be it resolved that UBCM call on the province of BC to address this crisis with the urgency of any state of emergency and work with doctors of BC and divisions of family practice throughout British Columbia for a solution that will rebuild the family practice system so that citizens of BC can be confident of having a doctor to call their own.

Gery Lemon2:30:26

Staff pointed out today that any resolution requires a backgrounder to justify the various points.

Gery Lemon2:30:39

I provided a background today to staff with several several links and requests that staff put it into a kind of format that would be suitable.

David Screech2:30:48

I think you then your motion then is to refer this to staff to bring back in a format that would could be sent to UBC.

Gery Lemon2:30:57

Sure.

David Screech2:30:57

Okay.

David Screech2:30:58

Okay.

David Screech2:30:59

Second.

John Rogers2:31:00

Yeah.

Gery Lemon2:31:00

Yep.

Gery Lemon2:31:01

Good motion.

David Screech2:31:02

So that's moved by Councillor Lemmon.

David Screech2:31:04

Did you second it, Councillor Rogers?

David Screech2:31:06

Okay.

John Rogers2:31:07

Yeah.

David Screech2:31:07

So it's moved and seconded, and it's so that's on the floor.

Ron Mattson2:31:10

Just a comment.

Ron Mattson2:31:12

I have no problems with the motion.

Ron Mattson2:31:13

I just wanted to point out that over the last two years the ministry or the island health through the ministry has put many millions of dollars into new primary care clinics.

Ron Mattson2:31:27

So I think there's three different versions of them.

Ron Mattson2:31:30

So we're I think there's up to six or six or seven of them just in the Greater Victoria.

Ron Mattson2:31:36

Or so I mean, and they've again they're working with the divisions of practice to do this along with the uh the BCMA or doctors VC.

Ron Mattson2:31:44

So understood many millions have been spent, and many millions more will be continue to be spent or that are planned to be spent.

Ron Mattson2:31:52

So as a reminder that the public thinks it's a you know, the municipalities thinks it's an important issue is is a fine resolution, but just for your information, everything that possibly can be done is being done.

Ron Mattson2:32:08

No, seriously, what about boundaries can't get physicians?

David Screech2:32:11

Pardon?

Ron Mattson2:32:12

There's just a shortage of physicians.

David Screech2:32:13

But that is, you know, I mean, for you to say with respect, and I don't think we want to debate the motion, but the medical world is very clear that there are significant problems and issues that exist with the current system that are not being addressed.

David Screech2:32:30

And so that's, I think, what this motion is asking is a UBCM call on the province of BC to address and work with doctors at BC and divisions of family practice for a solution that'll rebuild the family practice system.

David Screech2:32:45

So I think we're not asking for the status quo, we're asking that new solutions be looked at and be found.

John Rogers2:32:54

Doors be opened.

David Screech2:32:55

Yeah.

Ron Mattson2:32:56

Well, I don't want to debate either, but there are huge changes in terms of the way the doctors are being funded, et cetera, just so that we can meet the shortages.

David Screech2:33:07

For me, I'm happy to support it, and I think it's great.

David Screech2:33:11

And I think the more that we can be on record of address of identifying the concern for our residents, especially.

John Rogers2:33:22

Yeah, um, part I think the process is um just double checking, see what other resolutions are on record at UBCM.

David Screech2:33:30

There'll be lots.

John Rogers2:33:31

Yeah, there'll be lots, and and I think we can make reference to those, you know, and that's just to say you've had it, you've had your chance.

John Rogers2:33:38

You still are floundering.

John Rogers2:33:40

One of the things that we're um Premier Horgan was debating the issue uh in in the House um with the F bomb, um, he was blaming the feds.

John Rogers2:33:52

He was saying it's a federal problem.

John Rogers2:33:54

But I think your letter is saying there is there are capabilities in the provincial structure where we can make significant improvements and process i don't know that i'm not in the structure but there is there has to be a solution and and i i i don't think i don't think but i'm not addressing that pouring more money into it is the solution i think the solution is fixing the structure and and i think also what may be different with this motion is that i mean it is becoming a state of emergency yeah you know when you have x numbered people in greater Victoria and around the province who don't have a GP.

David Screech2:34:33

At what point is it a state of emergency when you have old people lining up at the Gold Stream um urgent care center at seven in the morning only to be told that they can't see anyone that day?

David Screech2:34:47

And it's only for prescription refills.

John Rogers2:34:50

Yeah.

David Screech2:34:50

Um, I mean, at what point is it a state of emergency?

David Screech2:34:53

And we have to look at the whole thing and say we need to do something differently.

David Screech2:34:59

At any rate, I think it's it's thank you, Jerry, for bringing it forward.

Speaker_022:35:03

Thank you.

David Screech2:35:03

So we're going to refer it to staff who bring it back in a format before the deadline to send to UBCM.

John Rogers2:35:09

Okay.

David Screech2:35:11

Staff's good with that.

John Rogers2:35:14

Yeah, we mean we'll have to go whistle and vote on it.

David Screech2:35:17

Okay.

John Rogers2:35:18

Yeah.

David Screech2:35:19

But we have to go to Whistler so that you and Councillor Matson can get your um your old crony recognition.

David Screech2:35:26

All in favor, opposed, that's carried.

David Screech2:35:33

But no, seriously, we do have to be there.

David Screech2:35:36

You're gonna be um, I think staff of do we have to put in a formal request for that?

David Screech2:35:42

I mean, not that this has anything to do with the agenda right now.

David Screech2:35:47

Don't we have to put in a in a request for them to be recognized at the banquet?

David Screech2:35:52

At any rate, I think Galliner was working on it, so I'll ask Ellen.

David Screech2:35:56

You two had better go if we're gonna go to the trouble of doing that.

Ron Mattson2:36:01

Wild horses.

David Screech2:36:02

So we're now at question period.

Gery Lemon2:36:05

If any what about the rising report?

David Screech2:36:09

Yeah, we haven't got there yet.

David Screech2:36:10

That's after question period.

Ron Mattson2:36:11

How far does it rise?

David Screech2:36:13

Um, do we have any callers on the line stuff?

Gery Lemon2:36:18

Your worship, no colours this evening.

David Screech2:36:20

Okay.

Ron Mattson2:36:21

Just that out of curiosity, is there actually anybody out there?

Ron Mattson2:36:24

Can we tell?

David Screech2:36:24

Could do we counselor Madison would like to know if we can tell if there's any viewers.

David Screech2:36:31

Sarah's about to answer, I think.

David Screech2:36:34

Is there none?

David Screech2:36:35

No, there's no viewers.

Speaker_002:36:40

You put all that trouble for nothing.

John Rogers2:36:44

They'll be viewing it later.

David Screech2:36:46

That's right.

David Screech2:36:47

Yeah, I do I do think some people do watch it after the fact when it's posted online because they've they've told me I'm I'm not convinced there's there's great numbers.

David Screech2:36:58

So we're gonna close off question period.

David Screech2:37:00

We need a motion to move the rising report.

John Rogers2:37:02

So moved.

David Screech2:37:03

Moved by Councillor Mattson, seconded by Councillor Rogers.

David Screech2:37:06

All in favor, opposed, that's carried.

David Screech2:37:09

Need a motion to terminate.

John Rogers2:37:11

So move.

David Screech2:37:12

Okay.

David Screech2:37:12

Thanks everyone.

David Screech2:37:13

So we'll see you next week for committee of the whole.