Council Meeting

Good evening.

I'll call the uh council meeting of the town of U Royal to order for Tuesday, March 18th, 2022.

We'll begin with a territorial acknowledgement that we recognize the Konguin speaking people known today as the Esquimalt Nation and the Songhees Nation and that their historic connections to these lands continue to this day.

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Type in your comment or question to be read aloud loud at the appropriate time by a member of our webcast team.

Uh, and you will need to provide your name and just your street name without the number on the forum, or if you're speaking in council chambers.

Public participation comments are limited to five minutes for each speaker.

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Uh, question period is open to any questions and is limited to two minutes for each speaker.

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Um sheet.

Did we approve the agenda?

That's what I said, and we get uh uh approval of the agenda.

Sorry, sorry.

So moved.

Second.

Moved by councillor Rogers, seconded by Councilor Lemon.

All those opposed.

All those in favor.

Seeing none opposed, motion carries.

Uh just to state for the record that Councilor Batson is online with us this evening, and we may see Councilor Kwalowicz as well if you could use this online.

Okay, thank you.

Uh and so everybody's here.

Uh can I get a motion to approve or adopt the minutes of the minutes for the council meeting on March 4th and the special council meeting on March 4th?

Councillor Brown and uh seconded by Councillor McKenzie.

All those in favor?

Any opposed?

Seeing none opposed motion carries.

I have a two things to uh report.

And uh Mayor's report.

One is this is K Canada's national engineering uh month.

So if anybody uh feels the urge to hug Ivan uh this evening, then uh if he's receptive to that type of affection, then uh please do.

Uh the other thing I want to make clear, and you might have read it in the news, that uh it came down to a CRD vote that I voted against an alternate approval uh process for a $20 million dollar transportation service.

Uh and that AAP is live now.

Um I am pretty much a regionalist when it comes to transportation and have big visions about electric trains running and whatnot but what the a p did not provide me with was any meat it didn't provide any service whether it was going to evolve into become an authority uh which we desperately need um but i just wanted to let you know that we're uh I think hit with a lot of uh extra costs uh a land acquisition around um our uh our water reservoir which was I think in the plan but sorely needed at a great cost.

Um, our own for the RCMP building and several others for the CRD.

And I just didn't think it was the timing was right for us.

And from my perspective, we need a better plan.

Um, and it I think it's good to inform both council and the public some of the things that I've learned.

For instance, even though Vancouver is covered under the Vancouver Charter, uh, which is different than the rest of British Columbia, uh, Vancouver made a deal with the province, and we pay by requisition uh through uh to the CRD hospital board.

So essentially our funding is about 40% of the capital funding.

Uh, Ron probably knows more than uh this than I, not to get into much of a discussion, but in Vancouver, the province took over health care in the city, right?

So that CRD or regional portion was not put, and the municipality or the greater region focused all of its efforts and money on Translink.

So they became the authority then for uh local transportation.

So uh that is uh I I guess I just want to get that out there.

And a couple of reminders, we've got a RCMP uh meeting uh on tomorrow night.

Tomorrow night, and then on Thursday, I believe there's an another one at the Langford Legion open to the public uh for the RCMT for any questions that the general public have.

So, throwing those things out there, I want to take us to petitions and delegations.

I want to uh thank Michael Pearson for coming uh with uh himself and Tim.

Uh this kind of evolved out of a discussion that Ivan and I had with uh with Michael about uh essentially really focused on uh the um the bus on the shoulder project.

So as we note, uh BC Transit had done the part kind of from the stop sign up to uh six mile.

Uh but this is kind of Moti's project now that will bring the bus on the shoulder essentially from I guess McKenzie Interchange through View Royal.

Even though it's not a View Royal project, it will impact a lot of people in View Royal, uh particularly those people living close to the highway.

So we had some great discussions with Michael, and uh we had requested at that time that he come before council and provide the plan, another way to for awareness.

But I was delighted to see he's really thinking ahead for engagement and uh ways that we can stop our folks from calling the town about their project, uh, and uh uh kind of uh uh be able to link in with their website as way as well.

So, Michael, hopefully that's a good enough introduction for you.

Uh thanks for joining us this evening.

Yeah, yeah, good evening, and thank you so much for having me.

Uh and with me tonight I have Tim Stevens, our project manager uh for the project.

Um so yeah, I I appreciate uh the conversation that we had before and and uh and the willingness of URL to to uh to support us in terms of public communication and and how this project goes um as we're about to get underway.

Um and just to introduce myself in terms of title, um the district manager for Vancouver Island with the Ministry of Transportation and Transit.

Um so uh we won't belabor it.

I'll uh I'll pass it over to Tim who's gonna give an overview of where we're at with the project, and then at the end we're happy to take more questions.

So Tim.

Great, thank you, Mike.

Um I'm Tim Stevens.

I'm uh the senior project manager.

I work for McLehaney, but effectively I'm the ministry's uh project manager on this project.

So I act like a ministry person.

Um so just maybe next slide, please.

And well, what we're well, these are the topics we're gonna cover in short order here tonight.

Um some of this you've seen before, I think we presented here a year or so ago.

Um, so maybe it'll uh refresh everybody's memory, I guess.

And uh uh we'll talk about the background of the project, the scope, um, the current status where we're at now.

Um some uh the Galloping Goose Trail Bridge, uh which would get built over Craigflower Creek.

Uh there's some issues with the outfall, uh a culvert outfall that goes through the Portage Linear Park, traffic management.

I know there's always a concern about night work, so we're gonna address that and communications.

Next slide please.

So by way of background here, the project overall is to provide for bus rapid transit from downtown Victoria out to the WandaFuca Transit Exchange.

The piece from downtown Victoria to Tillicum is completed, as are the works uh within the McKenzie interchange.

Um, but going, I guess from right to left here or from Victoria out towards uh View Royal.

Um the Burnside Bridge project widening project is underway as you've probably seen out there.

Um then between the McKenzie interchange and the Callwood Interchange is uh the project the subject project here um and we're just getting started on that um and we'll talk about timing here in a little bit and then the piece uh from uh the transit priority lane between uh Callwood interchange and the WandaFuca and when that's finished it'll be about 9.4 kilometers of continuous bus lanes all the way out next slide please next slide please there we go okay and the project scope um i again you've probably seen this before uh 3.7 kilometers uh on the outbound direction 3 point one kilometers on the inbound direction for the uh uh bus on shoulder lane so essentially taking the shoulder from uh two and a half meters to four meters throughout um and the the four meter wide shoulder is wide enough for the buses to run on uh there will be widening of the ramps at the helmkin interchange and the callwood interchange to accommodate that and uh there'll be um bus rapid transit stations at uh the islands on uh at the helmkin interchange uh and uh as i mentioned earlier a a new uh bridge for the uh galloping goose trail at crack flower creek and the callwood interchange and you know there's new barriers on the highway and um lots of signs and flashing lights for the uh uh to denote the uh bus lanes next slide please uh between the callwood interchange and the helm can interchange we're winding into the median uh and you can see there that there will be a barrier on the uh what would be the inbound side um and so that this means that there's no further encroachment towards any development uh the traffic will actually be very slightly moved towards away from the development that's existing today.

When construction is undertaken, there won't be any lanes taken out of service during it, you know, except at night when we talk about it.

But so there'll always be the same number of lanes out there during the day as there are today.

Next slide, please.

And this is a cross-section between um the Oakman Interchange and the McKenzie Interchange.

And as you know, there's no grass median there.

So we have to widen to the outside.

And then there'll be some rock cutting.

There's a rock bluff on the north side that we have to cut into.

And then on the south side, and it's not shown here, but to uh retain um to widen and retain um uh Portage Road, there'll be a wall installed there, and the existing actually the existing noise wall will be taken down and then reinstalled on top of that wall.

Uh but Portage Road won't be moving at all.

Next slide, please.

Uh so our current status, we've tendered and awarded the project just before christmas actually to jacob brothers construction um the construction start date is right about now or late march um in fact um this a small amount of work is being done right now for a laydown area in the McKenzie Intermkin interchange um they're uh planning on Thursday and Friday to remove the trees at the um cray Flyer creek, Gallicum goose, Galloping goose trail bridge crossing, and then next week uh on the um the bluff uh between McKenzie and Helmkin.

Proper construction work should start in a couple or three weeks.

And indications are that the first works will likely take place between Helmkin and McKenzie.

But we we will update you as we proceed.

And construction should be completed by fall 2027.

Next slide please uh for the Galloping Goose Trail Bridge over um the um Craig Flyer Creek uh we we have to remove pretty well all the trees that are are around there uh that that will be done as I said earlier later this week um the trees that are being removed are for the most part um low quality, I would say alders and things like that and uh there's a lot of invasive bushes, which we're gonna remove and make sure the roots are properly pulled out and all that kind of stuff um those trees will be replaced at a ratio of three to three trees for every one we remove.

I think the tree count is uh 15 trees would be removing, so we'd be replacing them with 45 trees.

Um and then uh for the galloping goose trail, we are not planning any closures except for at night.

And in this case, uh if if there is a need for a detour, we can detour the the Galloping Goose Trail on to uh wakus way to go around.

You can see the crosswalk there in this one.

There are there are entrances there um next slide please this is this is uh excerpt from the engineering drawings which uh your staff has a copy of which shows the detail of the trees and all the types all the all the trees and bushes that will be replaced are all native species next slide please and this is there's a uh as part of the compensation there's an area uh like uh we we because we're building a bridge over a fish dairy stream we are obligated to do some compensation for that environmentally and uh in the area uh the uh you can see the ramp above the burnside road west off ramp um it's in that area there and there'll be a uh a number of plantings and uh revegetation in that area for things that haven't uh that previously haven't done well next slide please uh this is uh aerial picture of the uh uh portage inlet park and the red line through there is denotes a culvert that um we need to remove and replace because the existing culvert is uh well it's it's in poor poor condition and it um is undersized uh so we need to we need to remove and replace that and there'd be no other drainage works or any other works for that matter in the park other than this uh we also need to improve the outfall a little bit put some riprap in there next slide please this is um uh a ground view what we did is we laid out the culvert location um and we wanted to see what the impact might be on the existing trees in the park um and uh we've hired an arborist who um reviewed it all and there's four trees that could be affected um three of them uh nt one two and three you can't see three because it's directly behind two um we uh the arborist feels that we can retain those trees with minimal or no damage uh nt4 is we're gonna do our best to try and um maintain retain it uh but if we can't we will replace that tree at a ratio of three to one uh and we're gonna follow the arborist recommendations by you know keep cutting the trench as narrow as possible um going slow when we're by the uh tree roots and things like that so we don't damage them and uh putting down plywood to run equipment on so we don't damage the roots and this this work is not anticipated to occur in 2025 it's probably going to be next year next slide please for uh traffic management um we're going to sign the uh the the running speed or the the sorry the um uh legal speed limit at 60 kilometers an hour during active work um and and during periods when there is no active work like for instance over Christmas or something like that uh when there's a break um the speed would be reposted at 80 kilometers an hour.

There will be no stoppages on long weekends.

And a long weekend typically goes from um uh Friday noon till Monday, Tuesday noon.

It switches a little bit if the if the holidays are Friday, but uh you you get the idea there.

Um there will be no closures of stoppages uh between 5 30 a.m.

until eight o'clock at night.

Um on the Galloping Goose Trail, closures would only be allowed from 8 p.m.

to 11 p.m.

And that's actually to allow for blasting on the at the rock bluff more than anything.

In birdside on ramp closures, there's no closures or closures could only be allowed from 8 p.m.

to 5 30 a.m.

And on Honkin any closures would be from 10 p.m to 5.30 a.m.

Then that's only be partial closures required to construct the improvements at the north intersection.

Next slide, please.

For night work, you know, generally the contractor wants to avoid night work.

It's not very productive.

But there will need to be a few things done.

Work to implement lane shifts of the highway.

So what we're gonna do, or what the contractor is going to do is narrow up the shoulders and shift the traffic over a meter and a half onto the shoulders so they have more room to move and work in the median and uh vice versa.

And that work would be done at night.

Blasting on the uh uh north side of Highway One for the at the rock bluff would have to be done at night, so that's basically between 8 and 11 at night uh girl erection at the Gallic use trail bridge and at the end of the project uh the paving the final overlay paving would be done at night um and in the short term uh there will be some closures associated with the uh tree removal on the rock bluff uh and they'd be done at night next week uh but they're they're brief they basically only 10 minutes while you take down a tree.

Next slide, please.

From communication standpoint, we have uh a website for the project.

And that website is kept up to date as much as we can.

In fact, it's just been updated based on what's expected to be constructed in the next couple of weeks here and we will further update it as we go forward.

There is an email address in the on the website.

And we have received a few emails and we are processing them.

And you know emails that we feel need to be uh discussed with the town of Villeroyal we will include them in response preparation as as we need to.

Next slide please.

And that's all.

Thank you very much.

And Mike and I will be available to answer any questions you might have.

That's great, Tim.

Thank you very much for the brief uh yeah just uh one question before I go to my colleagues and that is as you're getting close to working on those people directly affected meaning those people that are going to be able to recognize your faces on the other side of the sound fence will they be uh uh if there's anything that's going to directly impact them will they be notified kind of door to door or by a flyer put in their uh their mailbox about who to contact if they've got a problem with something or they they might receive damage.

Uh like is there gonna be an exception to the rule for those directly affected, I guess from an email.

Uh are you thinking more in in the area like where we have the where we're gonna be doing the blasting?

Uh yeah, the blasting and then probably the heavy work more concerned with uh between McKenzie and the Helmkin interchange, the rest kind of looks a little bit more spread out and uh you can do it thoughtfully.

Uh but but is there gonna be a kind of a a more personal touch to drop something off?

So if they do have a question, concern something falls through their window, sound fence comes down on their dog, they know who to get in touch with?

Well, certainly with the blasting, there'll be some notification.

And in fact, anything within that.

I believe there will be a mail drop for them.

They're all in Sandage, by the way.

But okay, thanks, Tim.

Uh Don, let's start with you and we'll just go around the case.

Yeah.

Thank you, uh Mike and Tim.

And Tim, you realize I know you for years, so you realize I'm a retired RCMP officer.

Good to see you.

Um I have one big concern.

I like what you've done to date, uh, to where it stops now at Six Mile Road.

I live on Atkins Road, so when I have to turn right, I have to go into the bus lane, which I'm allowed to do to turn right on there.

My concern is the two exits from the shell station.

Uh this the second exit, it's already a traffic hazard because people are turning left on the yellow light coming the other direction, and people are uh leaving the gas station.

And it's just a it's it's it's it's ready for a collision before, but now it's gonna once you exit the shell station, the there's an arrow on the road saying you have to turn right.

So I can vision people trying to scoot across uh two lanes of traffic there, and it's just a big accident waiting to happen.

So I don't know what um jurisdiction you have, but to me, uh the shell station, or perhaps you should tell them that they need to close that second exit.

It's not an entry, it's an exit only.

There's two exits there, people can go the other way and exit onto the bus lane.

Um but now it's just horrible.

I can't believe it.

I drove there the other day and and I well, I was gonna turn right anyway, but looking at that, yeah, you're stuck.

People are gonna be stuck and and frustrated.

And it's gonna be uh it's it's an accident just waiting to happen.

I I'm gonna pass this one off to Mike because that's that's the outside our project area.

Um I I think I understand what you're talking about, but I don't know if Mike, if you know anything more than I know.

Um no, nothing nothing more to add in terms of because it is outside of our scope, but I'm happy to follow up on that.

Uh because uh six mile road is itself is is under our jurisdiction.

So um I can follow up on that issue specifically outside of outside of this project.

But it is the it is the um the jump lane for the bus that I'm talking about.

Yeah right?

Yeah, the focus of this brief though is just on their project.

Okay.

Okay, thank you.

Counselor Lemon.

Thank you for your thoughtfulness here.

Um I I recalled the uh the discontent and dissatisfaction around the uh McKenzie overpass construction and how people felt absolutely tortured for for the duration of that.

So I'm really pleased to hear that you're taking a more thoughtful, caring approach to people that live live along there.

I've just got a question about the beaver pond.

Do we actually have a beaver pond?

Do we actually have beavers?

I don't know if there's beavers in it, but it's called the beaver pond.

Um uh uh but I I I factually I don't know if there's a beaver in there.

I would have I would hope so.

Um, but uh that's the area we were were asked by um Department of Fisheries and Oceans to um do s do our compensation.

They felt that it um had merit and re required some improvements.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, we're both in the dark.

Thank you.

We can get a stuffed beaver and put it there along with stuffed bunnies uh next to the uh the intersection uh that uh Modi doesn't want us to have either.

But they won't be real ones, Michael.

Uh thank you.

Councilor Rogers.

Okay.

Yeah, thanks.

Yeah, um Craig and a number of questions.

First off, I would appreciate um uh these these in um drawings are two dimensional and uh let's say and not that not that informative to me.

So what I would appreciate seeing if you could send to us is an aerial before Google maps showing the road and one that's proposed after so we can get a sense of you know what roads you're changing and what direction and what the width is.

Um would you be able to do that?

Uh I'll have to look into that, uh Councillor Rogers.

I'm uh I I'm not sure what we can do, but we can certainly look into it.

It certainly seems like no problem.

I mean I'm sure if you put in uh drawings and and uh estimates and engineering and so forth, I'd be uh really concerned if you couldn't.

So um I look forward to seeing it.

The other thing, too, is that um my understanding that last time we had uh you folks along, um, there was uh um, if I recall, redesign of the Helmickan uh road over pass, and um there was a number of changes that were happening to the bus stops and and whatnot.

Is that still uh in play?

That's correct.

It is.

That's it's essentially exactly what we showed you last year.

Okay, that's that's good to know.

Um the um the blast, sorry, the blasting of the um uh the rock wall uh that's underneath um the Welland uh orchard, um, how close does it get to the Gallup and Goose in terms of uh distance?

The uh the the blasting should be about I just uh you know rough numbers here, about eight meters away from like the top of the cut once it's finished, and uh back slope should uh will not affect the the trail at all.

So there'll be no effects, but we will be putting a uh uh bicycle fence along the trail because now the cut's much closer and we want to make sure that's safe for the users in the long term.

Thank you.

How high will that bicycle fence be?

I think the rule is 42 inches, but I don't quote me on that.

But it's certainly it's it's like it is on a bridge uh or the Galloping Goose trail that's further in at the McKenzie Interchange where they have the walls there, it'll be that height.

Great.

Yeah, thank you.

I'd I was worried it's gonna be uh six to eight feet like uh other sections along the Gallup and Goose.

And it'll be it'll be very pretty well the same as what you can see at Mackenzie, where we have the retaining walls and the bike uh the bikeal path is above them.

Thank you.

The um it seems like you'll have to remove uh most of the trees that are on the rock bluff.

Is there uh a tree replacement program for that?

Um those Gary Oaks and whatnot?

Yes, there is.

Um, and that's uh in fact theoretically, anyway, every tree that's being removed on that rock bluff is in Sainch and uh on our you know on the sandwich line side of the line, and we are replacing those at uh a rate of three to one, similar to what we're doing in View Royal.

And uh a lot of plantings will also be done in the Cuthbert Holmes Park on the on the hill there that uh we built as part of the McKenzie Interchange.

Yeah, the line again the um my recollections is that some of the blasting was going to be uh coming into V Row and some of the trees of View Royal would be affected and removed.

So obviously the three to one rule will apply for those trees as well.

If if there are any taken out of uh V Royal for sure, absolutely okay.

Thank you.

Um so the blasting is going to be at nighttime, and as we all know, um noise travels most effectively across the water and uh going to uh probably impact Christie Point.

What kind of notices will you give to them?

Um the blasting, I don't think we do any notices to like for as far as Christie Point.

It shouldn't um Councillor Rogers make that much noise.

There'll be uh you know a short of uh uh a rumble more than anything, uh and there'd be a bit of ground vibration.

Uh but the blasting would be done between eight o'clock at night and eleven o'clock at night.

So we want we don't want it done late at night when people are sleeping.

Yeah.

I appreciate that though.

Um, you know, if we did give people some notice, then they wouldn't keep keep thinking that the constant earthquakes happening.

Yeah, and we would certainly we could post that on the on our website for sure.

Yeah.

So um now you mentioned the road widening of the bus lanes that are going up and over, I would imagine both sides of uh Helmaken and the overpass.

Um, I'm particularly concerned on the south side.

How much of that road uh or the bus lane widening is going to impact St.

Giles and and the trees along St.

Giles?

The the widening is going to be in towards the uh interchange, so it's the opposite direction.

So we won't be moving the barrier that's in front of the noise wall that's out there today will stay where it is.

Okay.

Great, thank you.

And um, how much of the linear park?

I mean, we know that some of its park and some of its uh Ministry highways road wide away, and this is why it's so important to see uh uh the the drawings because I don't believe they're it's really showing much in terms of drawings.

Uh how much is uh the where the bus lane is going to be moving towards the water?

Uh it'll be about a meter and a half.

Um the shoulder existing out there.

It varies whether you're beside the ramp, it's a uh the ramp itself is a meter and a half shoulder, uh, but once you get past the ramp, it's a two and a half meters.

Now two and a half meters will become four meters, so it's a meter and a half widening.

Okay, thank you.

Um one of the uh reasons you see so many trees that are planted in Portuguese Linear Park is because the uh the people have um not enjoying the highway road noise.

Um and it seems like there's going to be more highway road noise.

So the sound barrier, um, what height of sound barrier will you place along the uh Portage Linear Park?

Uh we're we're not planning to put a sound wall along a Portage Linear Park.

Oh, I'm very disappointed to hear that.

Pardon?

Yeah, I I understand they're keeping the current one, but it's the um it's the the the road noise that's um you know quite a deterrence and and just uh discomfort to uh the park users as they walk along the water.

I'm sure uh uh it's going to increase.

Um wouldn't um I thought it was standard policy that um when there's um you know road improvements along the TCH for the province that sound barriers would be uh in play.

Uh we're we would put sound barriers for uh where there's housing uh and you know people living, uh, but the uh parks are not within the ministry's policy for noise attenuation.

Yeah.

I guess my point is that um again, let's talk about Christie Point.

Um, you know, they are directly impacted, and as you know, noise travers very easily very significantly across uh the bay, and or that is very short distance, 300, 400 feet.

Um so yeah, I would hope that the ministry would um be more than willing to accommodate um and alleviate the dissatisfaction and the noise impacts on christie point uh one thing we did do because i think last time we met with uh council uh the same issue was brought up and we we did look at the um uh potential noise uh uh impacts uh you know of the project on christie point um and it's uh so far away that it it will what the noise that's created by this project would uh the the increase is uh infinitesimally small.

So you've done a baseline sound test, right?

We well it would it was we didn't actually take noise measurements though, but we did a uh we do have noise measurements elsewhere on the project and we can project what the noise levels would be at Christie Point.

So I know I appreciate that but um rather than projecting what noise levels might be wouldn't it be worthwhile to um get your baselines accurate and uh do the sound baseline sound testing at Christie Point before construction happens.

Councillor Rogers pardon me gonna ask you to move on well yeah you're arguing with uh somebody's coming to do a present I know you've got an opinion about it but we've got some more questions so I I do.

I have, you see, unfortunately, I wasn't in a uh, you know it's it's transportation liaison, I wasn't at the meeting, so um I have still four more questions if this, and this appears to be the only opportunity to ask.

Certainly.

Ask more questions, but I think you you've made your your point in the last one.

Yeah, thank you.

Um the point was made uh and suggested that um um with the galloping goose, if a detour was going to be necessary, uh that you could detour along Watkins Way.

Did I understand that correctly?

That is correct.

Okay, my problem with Watkins Way is that there is no sidewalk along Watkins Way.

It's dangerous, narrow, and the vehicles travel at a considerable rate of speed.

So um uh I worry that um um ministry might be diverting pedestrians and cyclists and kids um into a uh a dangerous road situation.

Could you look into that?

Certainly we uh we we would and we would make sure that the uh traffic management plan for that takes that into consideration.

Uh for instance for example, you know, speed limits would be reduced during that period, for example.

Great, thank you.

Um when you replace the bridge on the galloping goose, um I understand there's an abandoned water main uh in underneath that.

Will you be removing that abandoned water main?

I believe we are.

You are okay just just the section that's uh uh uh exposed along the creek there.

Okay, yeah.

Interesting.

So we should talk because that that uh abandoned water main was uh placed in 1920 and uh it was fabricated at uh at uh um Theas Cove.

So it has some historic value uh to the town.

So if you could make a note of that and we could um uh start working on having a section for uh historical display.

Okay.

Great, thank you.

Um so if I may come back to Pure Porter's Park, you're talking about uh improving the uh runoff on the pipe um to go into uh the uh portage inlet.

So that's um road uh tire pollutants and whatnot.

Do you have a plan to put in a a filtration or settlement pond to uh um uh separate those um contaminants from the inlet?

The the the uh water is going to the runoff is going to be directed into a ditch with and the ditches grass and with plantings to uh uh which would facilitate that requirement.

Okay, great.

So it's gonna be a swale, not a direct pipe.

Correct.

Okay, good that's good to know.

I'm just checking to see if you've I've hit on my points.

Yes, we have.

Thank you very much.

I look forward to um uh getting more information and seeing uh what the details you put up online and we can talk about um preserving uh that piece of history.

You're very welcome.

Thank you.

Thanks, Councillor Rogers.

Uh Councilor McKenzie.

Thank you.

So I also share some of the concerns mentioned about the section between Helmkin and McKenzie, in particular, uh that expansion there.

It those areas unfortunately are already quite noisy from the highway.

So expanding those to be even closer to homes, I fear, will increase uh that sound that they experience.

So you mentioned removing and replacing the sound wall on that one side, not the side of the Portage Linear Park, but on the other side.

And so I was wondering is there an opportunity there to improve the sound mitigation, either in terms of the materials or it being higher, uh, to cut the sound that those uh residents experience there.

The the intent is to um the the the wall that's like on the south side of the highway excuse me um between portage road and the highway will be removed while we're building the retaining wall that will be re put back in virtually exactly the same location it is.

Yes but I was wondering if the the materials the height everything will be the same or is there an opportunity uh to improve the the sound mitigation in that area uh our our studies from the McKenzie interchange indicated that um uh this this the sound attenuation from the existing walls meets the policy requirements and is actually quite effective and so therefore we're actually going to reuse the same wall exactly we're not going to change the the the like the the idea is to reuse the panels as much as we can okay thank you I've just got one last one if uh unless counselor matts and you had any questions.

No, most of the questions have been I had it been addressed by my colleagues.

Uh, and I do share the concerns about um the lack of mitigation along the uh the park.

It'd be nice to see uh some sort of fencing going up there.

Thank you, counselor uh Madsen.

Um this question may be uh for you, Michael, more than Tim, but is there a plan to replace the aging sound fences that we do have?

Um so they wouldn't be part of the project itself, um, but they are part of our of what we maintain.

So um the ministry is aware uh that those sound fences, many of them are now twenty five plus years old, and so they're nearing that point where we're gonna have to start replacing them.

So that'll be part of our rehab program uh to start replacing those.

Um they're outside of the scope of the project, but they are part of our our regular maintenance program.

You've done a wonderful job of uh not giving me any details about timing uh uh at all.

Uh it was well, well done.

Um just uh what about ballpark within the next five years, might it be in a plan?

Um yes, uh and and that's fair.

I didn't give you a timeline because I don't have one yet.

Um it is and that's mainly because we're looking at it not only for Highway One, but also Highway 17.

So we're actually, because those walls are both along both highway corridors, are about the same age.

Um, we have to develop a a bit of a program to to replace those.

So we'll be looking at the condition and and um I'm looking to start that as soon as possible.

Um, so that would be hopefully sometime within the next five years, I'll start replacing walls.

It it will take a lot of time.

I think we in total we have over 30 kilometers of of sound wall fence um in the South Island alone.

So, and it's and um it is it is an expensive material as well.

So it will have to be a program that we start to implement if that helps.

Well, thank you, Tim and Michael, for your presentation and answering all of our questions and uh looking forward to the the project getting started.

And Ivan, we've got a plan to host their link on our website so people aren't calling you at home.

Uh yes, that's correct.

Thank you, Bernard.

Thanks.

Thanks again, Michael and Tim.

Thank you very much.

Okay I think that brings us down to uh public participation anybody in the house want to address counsel on any item related to the agenda uh and Carl we got anybody online when that's uh sent anything in the Mayor Tobias we have nothing on the phone board or sorry on the form board it's hard to say uh thanks Carl uh and I think uh Troy or Scott it's over to you guys for um stock reports.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor, and good evening, Council.

The report before you is a budget outlook report, kind of a soft launch for our 2025 financial plan.

The overview reports for council's information prior to budget statements being published later this week.

The budget is being prepared based on status quo service levels of the 2024 financial plan, plus non-discretionary increases and new services or staffing either already approved by council or referred to the 2025 budget.

The primary 2025 drivers for the budget increase include fire department increases.

There's a few.

Implementation of an International Association of Firefighters, IAFF collective agreement for career staff.

The first full year budget for the three firefighters that were hired mid 2024, so 2025 is the first full year budget, and a second assistant chief position that was hired in February of this year.

RCMP status quo staffing service levels, plus the transition of e comm 911 dispatch to the town.

The financial strategies to save for future asset replacements, including a 1% property tax increase, increase in casino revenue funding transition to future asset replacement of $100,000, and new BC assessment non-market change assessment revenue for 2025 allocated to future replacement reserves as well.

In addition, we've increased investment portfolio income based on favorable returns from MFA pooled investments.

An increase in information technology position from three days a week to full time has been included in the budget.

A new community planner position was approved by council in December.

That position is in the budget as well.

Due to the current year's budget pressures, staff have phased that position in using the Growing Communities Fund grant reserve over three years.

So 2025, there is no tax impact for that position and gets transitioned in and gets to full tax funded in 2028.

Lastly, building permit revenue has been trending down a little, so those forecasts have Mendik decreased slightly in 2025 due to declining activity.

Non core and capital projects.

Pardon me.

The town has an ambitious program of strategic and capital projects, given the size of the town and its staff capacity.

2025 will see approximately 24 strategic projects with a budget of 1.3 million, and 41 capital projects identified with a budget of over 7.3 million.

A sustainable infrastructure replacement plan, or SERP, as we refer to it, with financial strategies was introduced to council approximately a year ago and incorporated into the 2024 or five-year plan.

A key success factor for asset management and savings for the future is the town's consistent commitment to the plan when other financial pressures exist.

The draft tax revenue increases for 2025 are just over 1.4 million.

A breakdown of that is included in the report.

As the town does not have a consistent tax rate setting practice, the increase to the average home has been estimated based on last year's multiples at just over 10% or about $225 to the average home.

That will change depending on council's current year tax rate decisions and as well as any changes in the April 1st BC assessment revised role and non new market construction in that.

Lastly, staff will publish the plan to publish the 2025 financial plan with a two-week public engagement period starting later this week.

The draft financial plan and public input are scheduled to be presented to council on April 8th.

Project summaries for non-core and capital will be provided to council for the April 8th meeting.

Sorry, approved is only about five weeks, which is not very long, so it will be a um a bit of a time pressure for this year's budget and those bylaw approvals.

Both the financial plan and tax rate bylaws require final reading by May 14th this year thank you and happy to take any questions thank you uh troy and was there uh and this is just received for information and uh counselors this is uh I don't want to have a budget discussion before the budget discussion before the budget discussion this is not the budget discussion time we've got time for that right so uh uh so uh this is this is this is for information this is digest we'll be getting the information as it comes out.

There'll be a tight uh turnaround, and certainly there's lots of pressing, but um I'm sure uh Troy would uh invite any questions at this time.

Counselor Brown.

I'll be quick.

Uh class eight, is that just solely recreational?

That's correct.

Okay, and and do we have any properties that have both?

Um residential and and and uh recreational?

I think Fort Victoria is, but um, I don't know your portfolio in in uh well enough, but to have a class one and class eight in the same property would be unusual.

Uh typically class six business and class eight, um, but I'd have to look into that.

Okay.

Um Choi, you you you went through that quite quickly, and you had to your final line and and it it uh if we could just go back to your final line of the impact predicted so currently the increase in property tax revenue for 2025 is approximately 1.4 million.

So if we take the January 1st completed assessment, which is not the final, and again the town doesn't have a set tax rate practice.

So we've taken what we've consistently done over the last couple of years and and used the same multiples per assessment class, and based on that it's approximately a 10% increase to the average home or $225 dollars.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Uh Councillor Rogers.

Yes, uh thank you.

Um I just want to be sure that um you know since clearly the mayor's put limits on what questions I can ask you.

Um the uh the real detailed discussion is going to happen on April the 8th okay so and I guess we'll be able to hear what the public has to uh you know what questions they may have.

Is that the whole day from 3 30 to whenever that we're going to be discussing budget and nothing but the budget she'll help us budget.

Yes I think is the answer.

Thanks the the April the it will be as I mentioned it will be a different process this year.

The I know looking at some of the processes that were done in the past in the past you know we're providing the project summaries to council for information staff don't um plan to go through those summaries one by one uh both most of them are carry forwards from prior year or were in the prior year plan there is approximately about 24 new projects both non-corn capital that uh will be there for council's information and if they have questions during those uh deliberations um so the the April eighth meeting is is for budget and uh we take it from there on how we um progress and if other meetings are required and and just to add to um what the mayor said earlier you know if if council has questions around the financial budget statements provided um if you want to forward those two i'm happy to answer those in advance of the april eighth meeting and distribute them to council for information yes thank you and and one of my questions is uh already put to Scott um when would we be doing the grants and aid thank you so I'm actually just working on that right now we're a little behind on a couple things so I'm just working on the grants and aids and I would expect that to come forward in April with the budget cycle as well.

Okay when one would you know I I can't speak for rest of council, but my recollections um of the grants and aid, it wasn't that long.

It didn't take that many, uh, you know, an hour for for us to go through.

So I guess it's it's you know, with that knowledge and and what kind of grants and aids we have and what kind of maybe hopefully we can pull together uh the assessments because usually they're repeat uh you know requests, so we'd be able to get a good sense of how much they're asking this year as opposed to previous years.

So it it might it might assist us in and bringing forward the 2024 tables, if you like, for that and help us along.

Yeah.

Yeah, staff can have uh try and have that ready for the April 8th meeting as well.

It is um it is a very fulsome process that the town goes through in the applications and the presentation of council, so we can we can try and have those ready for April the 8th.

Right.

Um for me, you know, April 8th, I'm hoping is enough, but um I wouldn't um object if we if because we obviously we need to do a thorough and appropriate job and if we need to get another day the ninth the tenth the weekend um then i think it's it's fair to give fair warning and and make sure that we're fully comfortable what uh um what tax increase we'll be considering and the justification for that thank you and if i may the i mean the 2025 financial plan um there shouldn't be any surprises there for council everything in the plan has either been approved by council or referred to the budget um it is a a relatively simple budget as far as you know we have um protective services increase and both police and fire are the main um contributors to the increase along with future savings for asset management.

Um the the rest is kind of regular increases in staff wages and other other non-discretionary costs, um a few tweaks um with the staffing that I mentioned earlier and investment income, but uh at a high level, um there's the there's those main points that I mentioned to talk about.

The um project summaries for non-corn capital, that's up to council's discretion and how you want to get into those.

Yes, and and uh no, I I agree and and um I've you've done a fine job in summary summarizing and and providing the details.

Um I guess my concerns is the um the red flags that you've already pointed out in your report.

Um you know, we got the e-comm, we got the uh um police um uh building, uh, we got reduced um likely revenues, diminishing constructions that's gonna happen over the number of years, so our dependence on uh uh that propping up and funding our DCC programs, as well as the overall threat of terrorists uh tariffs and on uh on the local economy and our and our businesses as well.

So, with all those points, I'm I'm gonna be quite prepared to reconsider projects that had been on the books and readjusting some of those capital projects.

So um just because they're there now, circumstances may suggest that we may have to reassess that in the next day or uh next couple of weeks.

My la my last question is uh you said property tax rates in multiple settings that sounds like new information and new process and I'm not quite clear on what that's going to be uh and you know particularly um uh recommending that council determine a consistent practice of setting tax rates so that that's interesting and and um I always like to fly by the seat of my pants but if we're going to be doing something different uh I gonna need to get a better understanding of what that is.

Thank you Councillor Rogers no it's nothing different um it's something that comes before council every year I've looked back at the last couple of years and the former director brought very detailed uh tax scenario reports before council to determine um how you're gonna distribute the taxes, the multiples.

The multiple is council's philosophy of the different property classes and their utilization of municipal services.

So those have been before council the last couple of years at least.

Um and because we don't have a set practice in setting tax rates every year, they've come before council for consideration each year, then um that has to come before council again.

I did mention in the report it is uh best practice would be to have a tax practice or even a tax policy and where council wants to see those multiple going if they're if if they see them changing, and also brought to council in the first year of every term.

So it is a very, as council know you've seen it before, it is a very complicated topic, even for accountants um so it can it can be hard sometimes to come to that um council decision on a practice or a policy but it would be again council's discretion but it would be good to get there in in staff's opinion thank you very much appreciate it uh thank you councilor rogers uh for troy or scott uh do we have some alternate dates aside from the eighth that we're using for budget that we are marked in uh we'd we'd like to see how much we can tackle on the eighth and then leave that to council uh i i'm just no I'm I'm just planning for the worst um we we certainly can pencil in some more dates um between the 8th and uh may 13th when we're hoping to wrap up but uh that that's up to council not to staff so we'll yeah if you could uh if i might as well do this as a motion um uh can i get a seconder if staff prefers alternate dates we might not end up using it the idea is that at least it will get into people's calendars and they can plan around them uh as required so can I get them seconded uh uh so I don't think I have to say it anymore so have council or have uh staff prepare some alternate dates let's say two alternate dates um uh to prepare for budget discussion should uh the eighth not be sufficient.

Uh all those in favor?

Any opposed?

Seeing none opposed.

Just so you have it on the books so that uh hopefully we don't have to use them, but uh that way uh staff can plan around them, we can plan around them if we know when they are.

Um that's good.

Counselor McKenzie.

Thank you.

So the question about the grants and aid uh reminded me that last year we undertook a survey around improving that policy.

And so I know that was the the previous director.

So I was just wondering whether that is going to be implemented before or or like this year, or will that be a next year thing?

Thank you.

Um, I'm not aware of the survey, and it uh so we it would have to be for next year.

Uh it'd be too late for this year to implement.

Thank you.

And uh just on the note for grants and aid, and I think it's enough that uh we we've set uh a maximum amount on that.

I think we went uh and pushed it a little bit up last year, but uh, what did you budget for that, Troy?

I think it was about around 100,000.

Thank you.

In the grants and aid policy, it's five percent of prior year casino revenues.

So this year it's approximately $98,000.

Okay, and so that doesn't affect the taxes anyway, because that's coming from casino revenue.

So if we're short on time instead of getting into that to get the budget through, we can already we can allocate the ninety eight and decide how that ninety-eight is spent at subsequent meetings as opposed to being being intimately intertwined with the budget um as as as an option for council.

We don't have to decide where that money goes on uh as we're deliberating the budget it was just convenient for us to do it last time if we've allocated the ninety eight thousand um then we can do that after the budget is but did I say that right Troy?

That's correct you can do whether you do it now or whether you do it in June um has no impact on the um financial plan taxes if you will councillor Rogers uh interesting idea and and I g I agree that um if we're in a crunch to get our budget done but it is also um a budget funding issue for these individuals.

Some sometimes they require it.

So, you know, we just don't want it in December.

Okay, if there's no uh further questions, Councilor Matson, did you have any questions for the uh for Troy?

No, I think I've got the major points, 10%, $220 a month for residents.

And that uh we can still look at cuts if we're not happy with the 10% across the board.

One last question.

They the whole thing about the multiples, that's just like setting a multiple for say five percent for five times uh higher for business than for residential, and we we we would just set that, you know, whatever number we came up with.

Is that correct?

Thank you.

Yes, the the tax multiple is that it's it's it's based off the residential class one tax rate, and again, it's council's philosophy of how the different cat classes um use uh municipal you utilize municipal services.

Um so whether whether you think business is three times, five times, or ten times more than residential use of municipal services, then that's that's what the the multiples are based on.

Um but there are that you know that there are a variety of ways to manage tax rates and tax multiples.

Um and there's just no clear plan for the town right now.

But yes, multiples are the utilization of municipal services.

Thank you.

I just wanted to clarify that's what Councillor Rogers was referring to.

So got it.

Yeah, I look forward to that discussion on the multiples.

It's uh interesting that again bringing up the Global Mail that a bunch of business folks sat down and did a tabletop exercise and said who's got the lowest taxes, uh uh who's who's you know, and and went through the desktop number crunching, and they not only put us the best in the CRD, but put us the best in Canada for an entrepreneur to live.

So uh I I think if there's adjustments to be made, we should probably do that with with some caution.

Uh if uh some other people with big heads sat around a table and said this isn't a bad place to live if you're doing business.

Um, not saying they can't change, but I'm just saying somebody's done some work for us that we didn't have to pay for and said we're not doing too bad by comparison.

Uh Troy, thanks for this.

And I think we need a motion to receive uh Troy's report moved by Councillor Brown, second by Councillor Lemon.

All those in favor?

Any opposed?

Seeing none opposed.

Good work, Troy.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr.

Mayor.

And I think that brings us down to uh the our our engineer of the month.

Uh Ivan.

Thank you, Mayor Tobias.

Um, yeah, I'll I'll take hugs for one hour of the month.

Um Thank you, Mayor Tobias.

What I have before you is an update on our Helmkin Sidewalk, Eagle Creed Aspire Project update.

So this project has been in the books for a few years now.

It basically is to uh remove the existing sidewalk and replace with wider sidewalks between the Spire Development and Eagle Creek.

Um through a little bit of reflection, looking at casino reserves, looking at getting vested value, best for dollars spent, and looking at our five-year outlook for sidewalk projects and what council wishes to also include as part of that plan.

Um staff actually proposed canceling this uh project.

Um we did receive a quote from the developer to do it.

Uh it is generally cost effective, but because it's using casino revenue, uh, we feel that um council may wish to cancel this and then uh use that money for other projects elsewhere.

It could be also, I know council mentioned um, you know, extending sidewalks on the other side of the road that have no sidewalks.

Uh but in the meantime, I have this report before you happy to take any questions.

So that's it might be a good value there.

The recommendation is that council not award the curb and sidewalk replacement project to Unity in the amount of 105,000 plus GST, and that this project be removed from the 24 to 28 five-year financial plan.

There are two other options.

One is that council can award uh this project to Unity in the amount of 105,000 net of GST and that construction be pre-approved in the budget for construction in 2025.

And then option three is to basically undergo uh public bid process for this in accordance with our purchasing policy.

But we would not recommend that because um the second best value for dollar spend would be to utilize Unity, uh, giving us a pretty good uh pretty good quote.

Um happy to take questions, Mayor.

Thank you.

Yeah, so just uh just to clarify, so um the aspired development will cover the sidewalks uh before the occupancy permit is delivered from the edge of the property on the other side on West Burnside all the way around to I guess where Hidden Oaks is.

Like it'll merge with the existing sidewalk.

And the reason you were thinking at the time to replace the sidewalk on hidden oaks, which I believe is concrete anyway.

It's just the width and the standard of that sidewalk.

Uh, but the sidewalk itself is in pretty good shape.

It's not that old, correct?

Yeah, uh Mayor Tobias bang on.

Um the sidewalk's in pretty darn good condition.

Um it is of the old standard, it's still works, and we haven't received any complaints really at all in that section of the sidewalk.

Um, and there is complaints of no sidewalks elsewhere.

Okay, thanks, I uh questions from uh Council Mackenzie.

Okay, we'll go to questions first and then comments.

Uh uh Council Rogers, questions.

Yeah, it it it does make sense.

You know, the the sidewalk is is um Sounds like a comment, Council Rogers.

You know, pretty reasonable, but my question is that uh the is there gonna be a a uh significant width difference between the new uh sidewalk with a spire, I don't know, two meters, as opposed to the existing one meter?

Uh or what what would be the difference between the two old and new?

Uh yeah, mayor to buyor Tobias is only a one-foot difference.

Just one foot, okay.

So the existing sidewalk width is 1.5 meters.

Um we can come back for comments.

Okay.

Uh I'm so that the sidewalk, there's nothing else that's that's of of concern in in terms of uh safety or um aging.

And I guess my other question is um how much savings were we going to have?

It's good it's an estimate of 105.

Was it 105,000 because uh we were going to be teaming up with the spire?

And if we do it alone, how much additional cost would that be if it's we're doing solo?

Uh yeah, Mayor Tobias, the 105 is the amount that you need as quoted.

You still have to add construction administration cost and inspection costs, which is generally around 10%, maybe a little more.

I think they when we looked at it, it was about uh $25,000 more.

So in terms of the savings we would have for doing this, it is about $50,000 or so.

Um, which can be substantial given the pr given that the if you look at the project summary is about $200,000.

Um that said, uh staff feel that you using that hundred thousand dollars in a different project or to help fund big projects like Atkins would be better suited.

So my other question, then on that same road, we have a deplorable sidewalk on the south side.

Um so, and I'm not suggesting that it would be concrete, but perhaps the 100,000 then would be able to improve the safety of pedestrians walking on the south side if we thought and assessed if that was a better investment than um replacing an existing concrete sidewalk.

Yeah, Mary Tobias, that'd be up to Council's deliberation to figure out what to use that money for.

And just noting, Councilor Rogers, the area that you indicated, we've got two, one uh that we have approved, one that I think council will see for the other one uh for uh Helmkin market.

So um probably be good to find out how those come in because I think the one for Camden and Helmkin bring it around uh into there and then the other one bring it up so i i wouldn't want to spend a whole lot of money just yet on a sidewalk there knowing that that the rest of those properties are now up for sale so something will happen there somewhere it might it it's my neighborhood I'd love the thought of putting a new sidewalk in there but it might not be the right time might speak to that point it may be a recommendation you you can but we're just uh you can and second her on the table or do you want me to just make questions up that just extend the time even longer.

We can do that too, but I'll go to Councillor Brown with a question.

You can second it.

Did you have another question as well?

Staff recommendation, because uh as I mentioned before, uh, one of the ways we're gonna have to um pare our budget down is probably on some of our capital projects.

So I'm happy to see this on.

Counselor Madsen, did you have any uh questions?

No, if uh that was a second of my motion, seconding of my motion, then I'm just uh appreciate staff's recommendation.

Thank you.

Okay, that was your motivation.

Appreciate that, Counselor Brown.

Do you have any other motivation?

No, nothing further.

Just happy to see it.

Okay.

Uh any other comments?

All those in favor?

Any opposed?

Seeing none opposed.

No, carries unanimously.

Thank you, Ivan.

Uh, and I think that brings us down to a consent agenda.

Remind council what that is.

These have already been talked about at length at our council of the whole.

So if somebody wants to pull something out that we've already talked about and discussed, I'd be happy to do that.

Hearing none, I'll move the consent agenda.

Oh, yes, you're right.

You're right.

It's number C.

Councilor Matson, you don't see this because it was on a late item.

Uh, and it's the financial plan timeline, and that's a report from our cao council rogers so um um we have this for receipt and i'm assuming that part and parcel is we would be staff um also looking for other dates as the recent motion your recent motion so that would be part and parcel of this plan of attack setting dates scott did you want to speak to that at all um yeah we heard council loudenclear earlier that uh more dates may be required so we will amend the schedule and uh probably send that out by email to council uh we don't meet again until April 1st so it won't be approved but um we'll run that by the mayor who has one of his mayoral powers can set special meetings and uh we will inform the public and council once that's set move for seat thanks Scott uh councilman is second or second seconded by councillor rogers all those in favor any opposed see none opposed motion carries thanks for helping me out because I missed the uh last in and uh again back to the committee of the whole resolutions on a consent agenda uh for 8.2 anybody can pull those out uh I will pull one out for Ivan for clarification um and uh uh when we get there.

But does anybody want to pull any others out?

Council Rudge?

Um pull number two, just so there can be a vote on it.

Will there be a vote on everything?

I know, but I don't want to defeat a vote against everything.

I just want to vote against that one.

Okay.

Okay.

I understand.

Uh so you want to pull number two out.

Uh anybody else?

Seeing uh nothing else.

So this will we'll pull two and for Ivan I'll pull four uh to discuss.

So the first um vote will be on uh uh uh one and three.

So one is development variance permit for um two two four oh one Burnside west and that was the uh bc transit declined the uh size of the sign and the other one was the uh approval of the variances for altham uh 296 eltham and uh 242 helm kit option uh uh i think yeah uh moved by councillor rogers seconded by by counselor brown uh all those in favor any opposed noting that uh counselor mouttson uh were you opposing no i think this is no not opposing okay all right uh that these on board so uh counselor rogers you wanted to poll number uh two that was the uh development permit for four Helmkin River.

Yes, and and uh really I'm I'm so voting against this um mainly because although staff um I think gave good reasons uh with respect to trees, I think still the staff uh or sorry the design uh could have been done um with more consideration of uh not putting all the noise and and anguish onto one property uh to the north so that uh or to the east, whatever.

Anyway, on number 11 is all on them.

So uh for that um I'm voting against.

Okay.

Um thank you, councilor rogers uh councilor lemon well a question to staff i will i wasn't at the committee of the whole meeting where this was discussed but i did i watched the video and just for clarification um and there's no staff here oh scott just for clarification um the building height increase only applies to the townhouses that would be down on helmkin or facing helmkin, not those that are back uh um abutting ashley gate.

Am I right?

I think you're talking about the other one that we just voted for, Council Lowman.

For Helmkin is the one up in uh uh just off of Bernstein.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, I I I don't often see Scott confused, but I I saw him confused.

Okay.

Um uh so yeah we had a lengthy discussion about that.

That was uh of course just a reminder um uh that was uh house plex that's going into where a single house is now uh and Council Rogers at the time uh brought up a concern for for noise and uh for the neighbor he's not supporting it.

Um, so I guess uh if he so are you are you putting a motion forward, Council rogers, or you just want to make the declaration that you're not supporting it?

Um I don't know what motion I could uh could pass because I probably wouldn't get a seconder.

Uh so no, I'm I'm just gonna vote against it.

Thank you.

Okay, very well.

Uh moving number two and uh seconder.

Second second.

Uh Ron uh second by Councilor Matson.

All those in favor, all those opposed, noting that counselor Rogers opposed motion carries.

And so that brings us down to the uh four hour or the Helmkin Road at Watkins Way intersection protection measures, and that Ivan just wants clarity that we're tabling tabling the whole plan for that thing not just the common curb because I think that this the concerns around it weren't the curb they were everything else around the curb uh and the implications that they might have we moved to table it at that time he just wanted it to confirmation from council that we're tabling the plan for that intersection because with the exception of the light uh because um that would involve other scoping and capital projects in his time to get the rest of it.

So he just wanted confirmation from the count from council that we are tabling the whole thing vice just the Calgary curve.

So I think it was my or our intent at the time that we were tabling the whole issue uh vice just the Calgary curve.

But I'm happy to be reminded otherwise.

Uh councilor Brown.

Yeah your worship you're correct.

Okay.

So we we're tabling um the whole uh project of C 128?

Correct.

We were just tabling the curve.

No, I think the the table motion was uh because the concerns were everything but I think the Calgary curb that we're tabling the thing, but we weren't clear and Ivan wasn't clear and he's got work pending.

So we just wanted to Ivan just wanted clarification from us that we were tabling the whole project by the specific thing that he had brought before council.

So that was my recommendation, but we can vote on it again.

But I think it's uh councillor Brown, you made the motion.

It was your intent to to do it, Councilor.

Yeah, that's right.

I'll move the uh motion, the the recommendation there, second.

Uh moved uh by councillor um Brown, seconded by Councilor Rogers.

Uh just to make it clear again that we're tabling the whole thing.

All those in favor.

Any opposed tabling?

And Councilor Mattson is opposed uh for the tabling.

Okay.

So I think that takes cover or takes care of eight point two, eight point three.3.

There are not other reports.

Uh just looking at my sheet.

Uh correspondence.

We have two for action, but the recommendations is to receive all.

Um Scott, did you want to give a bit of an update?

Um anything from the uh police dispatch costs for Sothyl.

Yeah, and just look at your sheet.

And I'm skipping an order here.

Uh uh, Councillor Lemon, I'll go to you first.

Did you want to pull one out?

Yeah, I'd like to pull them both out.

Uh for action?

Okay, uh, very well.

Uh let's go to A first.

Okay.

Um, thank you.

And this is this is um in response to the letter to from Mr.

Black, in which he his first line of his letter is look um since the pub is about to go under, and the four and he he wants the the lines on the roadway addressed then.

Um but the four mile or the six mile has come out with a statement um saying they are not going under.

And um I'm I'm wondering perhaps staff if if we could um in our response to Mr.

Black say, you know, it's at this time where we have do not have confirmation or information that the pub is going under.

Yeah, so there's no change.

There's no change in the status of the pub at this time.

Correct.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Council Brown.

Yeah, this is kind of a follow-up to what I mentioned earlier about the access and egress from the shell station.

And I know it's just around the corner, but it but it is um the it's a gong show basically and we've got a big section blocked off, just just like the West Shore detachment has, which is fine because you don't want uh the police cars blocked off.

But here's six mile, it's the only place I've seen ever in town, which has got a big blocked-off area where vehicles aren't allowed to come in to allow people to come out.

It's it's it's a traffic nightmare around there.

When when they redeveloped that down there to build the grill, I thought they were gonna build a decent um um uh access to the two six mile, but it's it it's horrible.

People coming out of there uh just hoping someone's gonna stop so they can turn left.

Um and of course, first thing in the morning, uh the traffic is horrible.

So I don't know why an if if I'm I'm not an engineer, but maybe someone could take a look at that to see if there's some way to get the traffic flow a little bit better.

Counselor Brown, if I think it's very appropriate if you want to put forward a motion and have staff investigate uh uh you know, investigate the alternatives or or bring a report back to council.

That's the one.

Yeah, I'd like to make that motion that the uh engineering staff take a look and see if there's something that can be done to alleviate not only this this concerns of this letter, but uh all the residents, because it it's become a real problem.

There's uh people from the uh townhouses on Six Mile Road coming onto the highway.

Um yeah, it's it's it's and it's only gonna get worse.

Um second or second, but just a friendly amendment that um that not only staff information, but we also get some information from ICBC in terms of any accident statistics on from ICB and the uh police.

They can uh add to this information that we would friendly amendment, yeah.

So uh just to be clear for a staff.

So the we're asking staff to report back on options uh for design and related to this uh correspondence and any traffic statistics.

And and further that we uh uh asked for accident statistics on the from ICBC and also input from the RCP.

That might be two separate things.

Yeah.

So um I I I think to I think we're good with just get the insurance and this okay and then uh if we want to put another one uh at the time when insurance comes uh or uh when the report comes back, we could add to uh for the RCMP.

Councillor Brown.

I think Chief Hurst is the motion would be more appropriate.

Given we've tried to make decide not to make decisions on the floor on the goal.

It could be counselor mattson.

If counselor uh council's willing to entertain it now as related to this particular letter, then it's appropriate.

But I get your point.

So if you uh that that's actually a better suggestion is to bring forward a notice of motion at our next meeting.

Well instead of responding to it directly.

I'm I think you know, we've got the information on the floor.

We got the uh the matter.

I don't think delaying it by a notice or motion, we got a ma a motion uh by uh councillor brown.

I've seconded it, let's uh vote on it and get it out of the way.

I I I think Chief Hurst could probably have some input as well, because they attend a lot of the motor vehicle accidents in that area.

Yeah uh I think it's more about process now not concerning but our argument for it uh but um uh for I think presentations and uh Scott correct me if I'm wrong here but for uh presentations and delegations it's not best practice to come up with motions on the fly.

However, I think it is appropriate for correspondence to have counsel uh bring forth a motion if there was something to be addressed without it going through a notice of motion.

But correct me if I'm wrong on my procedure.

Uh you're not wrong, but it is a process issue and um you know it it would be ideal to have a notice of motion.

Um yeah it's it's hard you know for example we just talked about Chief Hurst um commenting on this and were he here at the meeting tonight he could comment on it and maybe uh uh a slow a measured approach there the six mile pub is is not going under anytime soon so it's not exactly a time sensitive issue that's why a notice of motion might be more appropriate.

Nope fair point uh so I I think in you can challenge the chair if you want to I would get call the question.

I I think no, it's not called a question.

Uh uh because that would mean discussion is over.

This is a matter of procedure.

Uh and it would be more appropriate to do that because we could have um we could staff have staff comment on it uh that we're here.

Correct.

Counselor Brown.

I could change my motion to uh a notice of motion.

It doesn't have to be written.

It could be yeah, un to be bringing for part forward to the next meeting.

Absolutely.

That would be my preference.

Yeah, if we're gonna do things on the fly, then there's gotta be some reason that it's urgent, and this is not uh an emergency.

So uh so yeah, so thank you, Councilor Brown.

We'll uh put that in as a notice motion or uh receive your notice motion at the next meeting.

Um okay, Councilor Lemon, you had another one that you wanted to pull out?

I did, but on I'm I'm having second thoughts.

I don't know that i i think what i want to talk about um was not directly related to their tax rate increases um it was their their the position of the town center and the ocp um so that is perhaps a matter for uh another meeting thank you councilor lemon anybody else want to bring one out or uh the same one to consider counselor rogers yeah uh the same one i i think uh are we talking about uh the the letter from mr plaster john plaster.

Yeah uh i hope that i don't have to make a notice of motion because it probably is gonna come up in April.

Um, but we are gonna be talking about tax issues.

Do I have to make a notice of motion that i would like to be able to discuss um uh Mr.

Plaster's letters when we come up to class uh um taxation for 2025?

Absolutely not.

Oh, good.

Not appreciative of your tone or your direction with that.

I'm just following trying to follow procedure, Council Roger.

Yeah.

Oh, I just wondered if the procedure was any any anything pertaining to action matters that uh we'd have to do a notice of motion.

So there's two items on there that we'll be addressing, and one is the issue right now that is going out with the um with uh the OCP and the survey about whether that will still be the town center when we get done council's deliberations back on all the information.

So I do have assurances that you know we'll have an opportunity to be able to discuss Mr.

Plaster's letter during the budget discussions and the class uh um class classification or what do they call it municipal tax rates as um as Mr.

Plaster's laid out in his letter I through the mayor I I don't see how we could have a conversation about class eight tax rates without talking about uh this property so because they're the only property in town.

Yeah um this letter is now part of the public record um you know we can refer to it um during tax rate deliberations.

That's reassuring thank you uh anybody else want to discuss anything else on the um the information uh the councilor brown.

Yeah, just a little confused about the letter, and I know class eight also includes the golf course as well.

But uh Mr.

Plaster is kind of confusing because he's got uh I guess there's two different properties, um, and one is residential and the other one's class eight.

The letter from Mr.

But he says class eight commercial non profit.

I don't think there's such a thing.

I think it's either is or isn't.

I don't think there's non profit because it well, he is is making a profit from the odd vehicle that comes in on a temporary basis um there.

So uh, but I agree with Councilor Lemmon uh and Councilor Rogers too.

Um it's important to discuss um the class eight and the class four, I believe it is for business when it comes to budget time.

Uh I want to make sure that what we're retaining and attracting businesses and not driving them away by making the rate too high.

I realize we've got to bring the revenue in, but it's it's it'll be a good um topic of discussion during budget discussions.

Yeah, and I hope uh the folks that were have been on council for a while can enlighten um council on the history of uh that particular property as well.

Certainly can.

Yeah, so we appreciate that.

Uh Scott, did you want to talk anything about 92A?

Uh I know it was for information, but there's some implications, including uh our budget, which seems to be a topic of discussion this evening.

Um yeah, I'll just say that after an extensive letter writing campaign, uh the province is not willing to extend the transition period uh to pay for e-com 911.

Uh the bill is due April 1st, and uh report will be coming on the April 1st meeting um regarding uh payment of e comm 911.

Um and the letter writing campaign continues.

Yeah, and so where we're left off is uh we've been basically been given uh the documents to sign uh for uh the e comm transition.

Um and uh the things I'm not happy about is that we still have no seat on the table for governance at all.

Uh so this becomes another one of those things that they can charge whatever whenever they want.

Uh it it is not an equitable distribution uh for e-com uh right now throughout the province, meaning that for some reason the South Island, the 10 municipalities were signaled out to start paying this year, whilst there's other areas in BC that are still being covered by the province.

Uh we asked for some rationalization, there was none.

Um and uh and again, my my my main concern is looking into the future.

Uh what services are we paying?

Obviously, if we don't pay now, um we don't have a 911 service, which isn't doesn't put us in a very good, but we're being forced into it like a zero option billing opportunity where there's no alternative.

Um so yeah, it's a concern area, but this is what we got.

Counselor Brown.

Yeah, I agree.

If um if we're paying this, uh why don't we have a director like we do at Crest Radio?

Um it's totally unfair.

They're presenting at AVICC.

I'm tempted just to go for their presentation, although I don't think I should be putting heat on them.

It's it should be the province.

And my friend Gary Big, who is a long term friend, but I wish he would smile on TV once in a while.

He looks like a real sad sack.

Councillor Roger.

So, staff, uh, what are the uh implications if we will not sign the agreement and we will not pay and we don't get one one-one.

What's the implications on our residents?

Well, Councilor Rogers, I just received a document uh yesterday evening.

Um we have saved the taxpayers' money by not running it past legal, um, which will be an option presented to you on the first.

But uh we would be in violation of the police act.

Uh we are to provide accommodations, equipment, jail cells for the RCMP, and uh and 911 dispatch is a is a major part of the police service.

So we've been put on notice that we we would be in violation of the police act, and we would be putting our residents and folks traveling through View Royal uh potentially in danger.

So we we'll we're gonna have to bring this up as a separate discussion because it will involve um signing of documents and authorization to sign those documents.

But um yeah so we'll we'll have a separate section so we can get into it deeper but if you had anything that you want to talk about this particular letter Councilor Rogers completely appropriate.

So um so this particular letter it will become before council and we'll have a have to council decision on whether we sign or not sign.

Uh the actual documents will come before us and that that will be a a a go no go.

Yeah okay councilor Lemon.

Move receipt of A and B uh I think it was at A and B for Did we already do 9 1?

We already did 9 1.

So this is a nine point two uh motion.

Do we have a seconder?

Seconded by Councillor Brown.

Any other discussion?

All those in favor?

I any.

I did have a question on the earlier document, but you didn't see my hand waved.

Oh, sorry.

Uh which question did you have?

The 9011 issue.

I'm just wondering if we have an opportunity to uh raise complaints to the province.

Maybe ask our new MLA to come and speak to us.

Uh our new MLA just uh had a baby.

Um and uh but she was actually texting me a couple of days afterwards.

So she's uh she's back to work kind of already.

Um but uh uh I've already brought it up with her.

I brought it up with her, Councillor Matson.

She's brought it up with uh uh counselor or with uh the minister.

Uh apparently counselor Brown's friend isn't that good of a friend.

Um, but we do.

So I think uh what I'm saying is we've exhausted everything we can do right now to this letter once we have the next discussion about signing the the uh the actual agreement, and uh council has an opportunity to read through that agreement.

I I think that would be uh a good opportunity to trigger our next course of action.

Um fair enough.

Is that good?

Sure, thank you.

So do we actually vote on that?

And then I got sidetracked with wave.

So all those in favor?

Any opposed?

Seeing none opposed, motion carries, Sarah.

If we could go back to 9 1 and deal with receipt of A and B, that would be great as well, please.

So we missed that one.

I thought we did it.

Councilor Lemon, you were leading me uh down the uh path.

So counselor Lemon made the motion, I think, to receive, but we didn't go to a vote.

Counselor Brown, you seconded, I think.

We'll take the same ones.

Uh all those in favor?

Any opposed?

Seeing none opposed, motion carries.

So I think that brings us down to question period.

Anyone with questions for council at all?

Nobody in the room?

Donna?

Not singling you out.

Uh Carl, over to you online.

No questions.

Any questions?

Mayor Tobias, we have no messages.

Okay.

And uh uh thanks, Carl.

I think that brings us down to motions and notice of motion.

So council Rogers, over to you just to read them in, not to motivate, but just to read them in.

Yes, thank you.

The the uh first being um to amend the variance uh permit, and I believe it's permits policies um with respect to get gathering more information about uh impacts on neighbors uh adjacent neighbors to uh the properties in question.

So that's the motion to amend and to include that information on our staff reports and your uh bnc right um and b sorry just let me get there just gotta bring it up i put it as a business a rising motion but um nonetheless it's a it's a motion that um uh council reassess the um eltham Townhouse development and improvements on eltham street to amend so that um uh the street can actually have two separate uh exit lanes um left and right onto Helmaken.

Thank you, sir.

And your final one.

Okay.

And getting there.

The final one would be when we have the budget discussions.

Uh, that first um having discussion of the September 2024 motion that I'd made uh to reduce the CRDR's funding from group two to group one.

Uh secondly, that uh for tourism promotion um that um uh council consider um joining the destination greater victoria um at $800 a year.

And the third that um, and I think staff's already put this in as a uh capital project for discussion, funds for uh the Sanit's uh equivalent of Pop Up Parks, uh off Leash Park areas in View Rule.

And it shouldn't be for five locations, it's actually for four.

Okay, thank you, Councilor Rogers.

Um forward to discussing them at our next council meeting.

Sarah, over to you for a closed meeting resolution.

Thanks for coming up, folks.

Thank you.

There's a need to have a meeting closed to the public and persons other than the immediate members of council, officers and employees of the town, and those identified under section 91, subsection two of the community charter shall be excluded on the basis of section 90, subsection 1A appointment.

Before we go on, do I have to leave this meeting to go to that meeting?

I think that was a yes, counselor.

I can see.

I will I'll give that my best shot.

I'm not sure if I got me a mic.

But I did have one comment in terms of this meeting.

I'd just like to uh congratulate the mayor for running a taunt ship.

Spend all those Navy years in the Navy.

So good job.

Thank you, Councillor Matzard.

You're not you're not uh uh imbibing in any of the uh Asian whiskey while you're there, I hope.

Uh can I get a motion to terminate?

Moved by Councillor Brown, seconded by Councillor Lemon.

All those in favor?

Any opposed?

Seeing none opposed, motion carries.