Council Meeting

Thank you.

Good evening and uh welcome to the town of B Royal Council meeting for Tuesday, June uh third, twenty twenty-five.

And I'll call the meeting to order and begin with a uh territorial acknowledgement that we recognize Laquanguan speaking people known today as the Kaposum or Esquimalt Nation and Songhees Nation and that their historic connections to these lands continue to this day.

Um this evening we will hear from the public during public participation and question period portions of the agenda uh to provide comments virtually during the public participation period or ask questions during the question period.

You will see a QR code or a URL um on the live webcast screen.

Uh and you can scan the QR code or type the URL uh and through a form that pops up, type in your comment or question to be read aloud at the appropriate time by a member of our webcast team you will need to provide your just your name and your street name without a number on the form or if you are speaking in council chambers public participation comments are limited to five minutes for each speaker and must be related to items on the agenda and question period is relate uh is any question doesn't have to be related to the agenda and it's limited to two minutes each you will be timed this meeting will be recorded by participating in the webcast you are consenting to being recorded and the recording will be available on town's website for future access.

Um I think if there are no changes to the agenda, then uh I would uh value very much a mover and a seconder for it.

Second moved by councillor Brown, second by councilor Lemon.

All those in favor.

Any opposed?

Uh seeing none opposed, motion carries.

And can I get a motion to receive the minutes for May 20th council meeting, please?

So moved seconded.

Moved by Council Lemon, seconded by uh Councillor McKenzie, and all those in favor.

Any opposed?

Seeing none opposed, motion carries.

Uh mayor's report.

Uh I I guess since the last time we've talked, the uh housing or the bills for 14 and 15 did go through narrowly uh and and passed um uh last evening.

Uh Councilor Lemon and I had a great uh meeting with the committee.

Um and uh certainly had one of those committee meetings where I think staff got a lot of input, plus I think the committee had an opportunity to uh explore some of the concepts from the findings that staff had presented from uh the surveys and uh questions to lead us on further for the OCP.

So that was quite enjoyable.

And tomorrow I have a uh I think a uh C FAX interview with the housing minister.

We'll see how that one goes.

Um I think it's around one o'clock.

Uh and public participation period.

Donna, you're the only one in the room.

You get to go and choose whether you want to go first or not.

Okay.

You can you can ask, yeah, there's lots of time for you to ask a question at the end.

You can think of a good one too, but by then.

Uh Carla, we got anybody uh that has sent in uh a comment for public participation period for online.

Mayor Tobias, we have no uh messages on the system.

Okay, with that, I think it comes down to a staff report.

So we're at uh agenda item eight.

Uh Leanne, is this you?

Leigh.

Good afternoon, Mayor and Council.

So this presentation is to introduce you to DVP 202501 for 21 Tovey Crescent.

Uh next slide, please, Carl.

Um, so the image on the screen um outlines the DVP application process.

The red star indicates where the application falls within this process.

At the stage, staff have reviewed the application and are presenting it to council for their consideration as to whether or not to move the application forward for public notification.

Next slide, Carl.

So the applicant at 21 Toby is requesting to reduce the minimum lot size requirement for a level three home occupation from 1,000 meters squared to 995 meters squared to permit a bed and breakfast on the subject property.

So business license application was received by the applicant in March of this year and after reviewing the requirements outlined in section four, two point sorry, four point two point five and four point three.3, it was determined that the lot size was just slightly short of the requirement.

Um, and as a result, a variance has been submitted to council.

Next slide, please.

So staff are willing to support a variance to reduce the lot size requirement from 1,000 meters squared to 995 meters squared to permit a bed and breakfast for the following reasons.

It is only a reduction of five meters squared, which is approximately 53.8 feet squared.

And the property complies with all of the other zoning requirements.

So everything that is in 2.4.2.5 and 4.3.

So the proposed bed and breakfast is located within the dwelling.

There's no secondary suite, um, garden suite or daycare on the property.

The applicant lives in the dwelling, and the property owner is the only one other than her husband who will be working with this bed and breakfast.

They have all of the required parking spaces, which is three, one for the residents and two for the bed and breakfast.

And the proposed bed and breakfast area consists of one sleeping unit, which meets the requirements set out in the zoning by law.

Sorry, for council's information, the report also has within its attachments two letters of support from neighbors on either side of the property.

Next slide, please, Carl.

So as a result, our recommendation is that council authorize staff to proceed with the public notification process for development parent variants permit number 202501 for 21 Toby Crescent, subject to the proposed dwelling, sorry, the proposed dealant meeting all of the zoning bylaw requirements except for the following variants, decreasing the minimum lot size of a level three home occupation from 1,000 meters squared to 995 meters squared to permit event breakfast.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Colleagues, let's go to questions first.

Any questions on this brands at all?

Councilor Rogers.

Thank you for the report.

The um uh does this only um the um reduction slides only apply to um home occupation level three bed and breakfast as per section four three?

So as per section 4.2.5, which is the the section of the bylaw which refers to level three home occupations, there is a minimum lot size requirement of a thousand meters square.

So it is only for level threes, and as a result, bed and breakfast is because bed and breakfasts have to comply with both their own regulations and those of the level three.

Yeah, okay.

So I'm I'm bear with me, I'm a little confused.

Um, by reducing the size for a home occupation level three, is it just restricted to um the specific the purpose of uh bed and breakfast, or would there be other um level three um home occupation level three possibilities that could then be entitled to this reduction in size through the chair?

So this would strictly look at this application only.

So if another property wanted to request a variance, they'd have to bring it forward once again to council.

Um we look at it on a case to case basis, and this is one example.

Okay.

So okay, so um again, uh uh bear with me.

So this is only applicable to 21 Tovey Crescent, no other properties.

That is correct.

Thank you for the that's great care.

Because I was wondering if we'd reduce this uh to um uh you know 995, uh how many other properties in View Or would be in entitled to this uh new bill I did I have.

Um but those would be a case by case, and I guess they would just be setting, hey, that was a precedent, now we assess that on on the values of that other option, other property.

Thank you.

Great.

I I do have a question, so let's stick with questions first.

Um uh it are we kind of up to date that uh does a level three have a size package with it?

Like is it uh there's a standard, I'm assuming for a level three home?

There is um only a requirement for the lot size, not necessarily for the home size or anything.

Um that being said, within the home occupation um rules, it does state that a bed and breakfast is only to or uh take up like was it 40% of the home?

Um yes, in in section A, it does say that it cannot occupy more more than 40% of the floor area of the dwelling.

So I'm not quite sure if that it would answer your question.

Yeah, it just seems odd that we're basing a requirement for a bed and breakfast on lot size and not house size.

It's just my my thinking is that I think the house size would be more important than the lot size unless they're camping or there's some garden and they're gonna have breakfast in the garden or something.

I would see it more pertinent to have house size than are are we missing the mark or am I Leon?

Um our current zoning bylaw regulates the lot size for a bed and breakfast uh the I I believe the property is zoned R1A or B, which includes a maximum floor area.

So the bed and breakfast can only occupy up to 40% of that maximum floor area that is permitted in the zone.

Okay, thank you.

Um and uh just a curiosity who pays for um uh this to go out to neighbors for notifications.

Is that a process?

Like is that something the town does or something that the uh we recoup the cost for the applicant?

As part of the application fee, um there is a fee associated with the notification process of approximately $200, I believe.

Okay, thanks.

Uh that's all I have for questions.

If anybody wanted to make comments or a motion, I'm happy with that.

Can may I make another question?

Uh certainly.

Yeah.

This um is this transferable?

So once we've designed it, is it the um designation to the property or to the owner?

In in this case, the variants would be for the property.

Um however the business license, unless the the next resident decides to take over it, it wouldn't matter.

Councilor Brown, Lemon?

Brown.

Like to move the staff recommendation.

Second it.

Uh moved by Councillor Brown, seconded by Councillor Lemon.

Uh all those in favor.

Are there any opposed?

Seeing none opposed, uh motion carries.

Uh thank you.

And Ivan, I think this is over to you, Boulevard Maintenance Contract Award.

Sorry, Ben.

It's a pleasure.

You get me this evening.

Hi, good evening, Mary.

Together with Ivan, we've been working hard on this one.

So Ben Lubert's here, Deputy Director of Engineering for uh uh for tonight's item.

So tonight we're looking for your direction on awarding the 2025 Boulevard maintenance contract.

Uh so council set the budget for contracted boulevard maintenance services uh for the total of the 2025 year at 400,000 and directed staff to undergo a competitive bid process for those services.

We structured the RFP and the contract as a six-month contract.

We did this strategically to realign our maintenance program, our landscape and boulevard maintenance program with the non-peak season.

So this contract will end at the end of this calendar year, and then we can look at opportunity to go back out to market.

After a competitive bid process, staff recommend awarding the contract to RLC Enterprise Limited for $100,000, which fits within the remaining budget for this year.

RLC's proposal stood out not just for being the lowest bid, but also for how they thoughtfully approached the challenge of tailoring our boulevard maintenance services to stay within our remaining 2025 budget.

They proposed a reduced level of service in a strategic way that minimizes the impact on the look and health of our boulevards and our plantings.

For example, some areas that were previously maintained monthly will now be visited quarterly, and some grooming standards will be slightly relaxed.

These changes will give us a chance to assess and test how well certain boulevard areas respond to less frequent maintenance and will allow us to explore other efficiencies for the next competitive process at the end of the year.

There are two other options for council to consider in the report here.

Option two is to increase the contract value to a hundred and forty-two thousand three hundred and seventy-six dollars, which would include some provisional work, which is extra work, or option three, which is to go up to $195,000 to maintain the full service levels that we have in our specifications as well as the extra provisional work.

Both of those options would require amending our financial plan since they do go above the approved budget.

Without including any of those extra provisional items in the contract, so if you were to just go with the recommended $100,000 option here, staff will we will triage those work demands for the additional items throughout the year, you know, based on health and safety and any remaining available funds that we do have.

So we have a way of dealing with that.

The recomm recommended option supports the town's goals of fiscal responsibility and reflects what we heard from the public during budget consultations, where responses seem to be open to scaling back on boulevard maintenance to a degree in order to reduce costs.

A timely decision is important here as the previous contract ended May 31st, and we want to avoid any uh further gaps in services that could lead to you know overgrowth or extra cost down the line.

Thank you.

Thanks.

Then we'll go with the questions first, just right off the top of my head to clarify.

So uh this will be a six-month contract.

This winter will reissue.

That contract for boulevard maintenance will be 400-ish, I'm assuming for uh a period of time.

I know the contract or the RP hasn't been written, but the idea then would be kind of 400 or or whatever it works out to be beyond that.

Uh yeah, uh Mayor Tobias, that's correct.

Um we'll go to competitive bid we'll we'll probably come forward to council beforehand just to get a litmus test of how council thought this process went and whether or not any minor tweaks uh council wished to have uh at the end of the day though it's we would be going with a full budget of about 400 plus change of inter with uh due to interest and likely would be looking at a five-year contract or three to five year contract.

Like I said, uh staff will bring forth some more information to council so that we have we have the leadership of council before we go to competitive bid.

So this will take over for this hundred thousand dollars will take over when does Victoria contracting kind of finish up to when this contract kicks in?

Uh their contract came to an end May 31st, so they're out of contract right now.

Okay, thank you.

Uh let's go to Councilor Lemon, then Councillor Brown, please.

Thank you, Ben.

Um which boulevards are going to be maintained.

And can you tell me if this is just a you know, this well, first of all, which boulevards I've got I've got a couple of questions.

It's difficult for me to tell you exactly which boulevards.

We have a very large inventory of boulevards that we look after.

So if you're curious about specific boulevards, I can comment on that.

But I can also tell you sorry to interrupt uh so sorry through through the mayor I can also tell you a general sort of rule of thumb that we use to use taxpayer dollars to maintain boulevards if that helps.

So generally boulevards will actually buy our bylaws streets by law.

Boulevards are to be maintained by the adjacent property owner.

And for the most part, yes, that's that's that's standard practice, and that's the message that we send out to residents.

It's your responsibility to maintain the boulevard fronting your property.

In certain circumstances, uh the town, through its uh chosen service levels uh over the last decade or so has decided to beautify those boulevards beyond a standard that's probably reasonable to ask a property owner to maintain.

So it's those boulevards that we pay to have maintained.

Uh beyond that, there are also certain boulevards that are uh not obviously in front of a certain property.

Um, so boulevards fronting um large swaths of parkland, uh large swaths of land where there's maybe multiple properties, but they're all the back of properties, so their frontage is onto another street.

So that's an example of some of the ones that we uh maintain.

That's really helpful.

So town crews will be maintaining the major major boulevards down Helmkin and Island, Island Highway.

Yeah, so yeah, so through the mayor, yeah, it's and and those beautified boulevards are typically on our major thoroughfares where there's a lot of traffic.

Island Highway, Helmkin, uh Watkis as an example.

So what would in the next level, what would provisional um provisional work be?

What would that be?

Would that be planting?

Would that be the flowers in the circles?

What would that be?

So through the mayor, uh it was a challenge that we had uh before us to rescale the boulevard uh maintenance program to fit within the approved 2025 budget.

And so we uh what we did is uh items that were otherwise normally part of the base contract from previous years, some of that we took out as from the base and we made it provisional.

So we uh asked for a quoted price on those particular items.

Uh example would be uh leaf pickup.

Uh so that used to be part of the regular um regular service, uh also litter pickup.

Um so okay, okay.

Um and you said that, and it okay if I ask a couple more questions, um you said um that the um the the boulevards would be mowed, would would be would be attended to um quarterly as opposed to monthly from here on.

So if we so summer hasn't even started yet.

And so would that they would do that um presumably in their first week or two on the job, and then they wouldn't do it again until October.

Um so th through the mayor, a little bit more complex than that.

Um so specifically, there are some boulevards um out of the large inventory that we have that are typically maintained on a monthly basis through the growing season.

Certain ones of those we've um the contractor has gone through and recommended that we could do a lower frequency on particular boulevards, bring them down and do them quarterly.

And so because this is a six-month contract, it's uh it's not so clear cut.

Uh typically it's a full year, and so I'll just talk in terms of full year if I may.

So quarterly, four times a year.

Monthly is not 12.

It's actually only monthly for the growing season.

And so some of those boulevards, as you mentioned, not all of our monthly boulevards, but certain ones where we feel comfortable, yes, we can reduce those down to quarterly, which essentially means they'll get two maintenance visits between now and the end of the year.

So are we going to notice a difference?

Do you expect through the growing season through the summer?

Will we notice, will will, will residents notice a difference?

Through the mayor, very difficult to say.

It's in the eye of the beholder.

So somebody who is keen looking for landscape, know what they're looking for.

Yes, they'll probably notice something.

I would say for the general public, the general traveling public, I'm I I wouldn't think that the uh that the difference in aesthetics out there is going to be overly noticeable.

Um, however, that's just my take, and uh that's what we'll have to see over the course of the next six months.

Go ahead, Evan.

Um, yeah.

Uh through the mayor, you know, growing involves watering and involves some other things.

So uh to pivot and to do less mowing, for example, um some pivots will be made to watering schedule and uh mulching, if any.

But essentially, if you water less, it's gonna grow less.

So um we would send essentially make some adjustments.

It is a pilot for six months.

Um, we are here to listen to uh the residents, see what they think, and that's the reason why we will be reporting back to council before going to the next embedded of the process to see if uh one that council wishes to maintain that level of service or two to make changes.

Thank you.

Thank you, Ben.

Counselor Brown.

Yeah, first of all, thank you very much for uh getting in touch with my neighbors who live in a neighboring um uh townhouse complex.

Uh that was very helpful for them.

They were a little confused about where the uh uh the highways department uh boulevard is compared to theirs, and I think you answered the questions uh very well.

I wonder with RLC um if people know that that's our contractor, like they knew Victoria Contracting was our contractor.

Um, if they pick up the phone and phone them and say, you know, my boulevard's really ugly.

It needs would would they directly refer it back to to to to your staff or to Ivan's staff?

They would.

So it's a protocol question basically.

Yes.

Okay.

Uh so th through the mayor, uh any resident is directed to uh to staff, few royal staff, and the contractor will take orders from from us as the client.

And just another just quick follow-up.

Um, I just wonder, um, I know it's their company, they're a contractor, so and they get to run it basically the way they want, with some direction from us.

I just wonder, I wonder if Victoria Contracting ever did that.

If they have someone that actually, when they drive around, do they see something that needs uh extra attention and come back?

And I guess they would come back to to engineering and say, you know, this this boulevard here needs some extra work, and that's probably what you're talking about as far as the level two you were talking about the extra work is that right to assume that yes yes uh yeah typically we have a very close working relationship with uh well with all of our contractors but particularly our maintenance contracts because there is a lot of back and forth there's feedback that we get from them because they're out in the road allowance all the time giving us recommendations uh and and we're shifting work around and making calls as we go to maintain that that service level yeah go ahead, Council Roger.

Yes, I thank you for the report and uh congratulations for uh working so hard and and uh meeting the the tur uh terms and direction of council.

The um I'm I'm you we've got level two and level three.

Um so Helmaken would be what level.

Uh through the mayor, uh Helmkin, depending where you're talking about specifically, but in general Helmkin is going to be maintained at a level three.

Uh any sort of entrances into the municipality, uh we've we've classified those or reclassified those as a level two.

Um for context, the previous contract had all of the beautified boulevards at level two.

And so as part of this uh this reframing of the services, uh we have dropped that to a level three.

It's very comparable with level two.

I'm not sure how much that means to everybody, but it's uh it's essentially just a tolerance for wear and tear.

So let me understand and paraphrase because you had said only a small area of the town is maintained as a level two, but I I consider Helmaken to be a large area, so that may be a perspective thing.

Um so we are taking Helmicken from a level two down to a level three.

That's the proposal here, right?

Right.

Okay, and um the and one of the things that's not clear in in this uh contract is the planting of annuals.

Are there is that part of the contract that uh individuals' annuals will be planted even in the fall?

No, that is not part of this contract.

Uh part of this contract, though will be the maintenance of the spring flowers, spring annuals that are already planted.

Great.

Well um now in the summertime we'll have lots of uh trees.

We have the bags, right?

And we fill the um uh those bags to ensure the trees have continued water to uh go through the drought.

Is that a um uh boulevard uh maintenance or is that a park maintenance?

Uh through the mayor, uh so that's called hand watering of our trees.

That is an additional item.

It's not part of our routine maintenance because the inventory changes year to year, so it's not predictable.

And so uh that's not subject to what we're talking about here.

Good.

Assuring.

Um the if we were to choose to um fund further, option one or two or three, um, and that would probably require a um uh a budget amendment and I guess this might be to other members of staff would that come from um surplus to the mayor uh council rogers yes it would uh thank you that's all the questions I have any other questions any comments I'd like to make a motion sure uh I I would uh move option two um to uh well this is a um uh um a method of in of reducing costs i don't want to reduce risk um i think staff's um um point about implementing a provisional work on an as need basis gives us additional assurance to make sure that we can indeed give the flexibility to staff and to the contractor uh and uh enable us the uh the best way of um testing this and also if it's coming from surplus um i i think that's a a minor adjustment i'll second that thank you yeah, before i go to uh uh we go to a vote on this, I'll just make one comment about this.

So BCMMC, is that Victoria contracting, right?

Um RLC is somebody new.

Have we dealt with them before at all?

We have not.

Um Your place is a view royal-based business for the folks that are exiting um um our place.

Um I personally I I kind of like to see a view royal business on here for um something that is being risk managed.

It's a six-month contract.

We can see how they do.

Um I don't know.

From my perspective, I'd support going with a local business.

Um uh that obviously has need.

They do have contracts out now.

They don't have a whole lot of RFP writing experience, granted.

Um so uh from my personal opinion, I'd love to see uh view royal uh business being given a crack uh for this and see how they perform um that's just my thoughts so we got a motion on the table uh and uh we can move to vote on that one now and counselor rogers just can I call that first oh yeah uh sorry go ahead I didn't see your hand yeah I I mean I mean the reason we're doing this is to reduce costs and so we've got an opportunity to save a hundred thousand dollars it sounds like by going with option one and seeing how it works and we have staff said if anything goes drastically wrong that they can fix it because they can find the funds so I'm quite happy with option one and can't support option two council rogers let me uh get a clarification from staff here um the um actual reduction uh that had been made by council was uh you know I think much more than uh than the the budget you know we were aiming for the 400 and you found a contract of uh and put it up to bid and you know, I think we've already got a a good savings at this um um proposal, you know, the qualified individuals RC RLC so um we still would be making significant savings over previous budget.

Is that uh my understanding?

Through the mayor, Council Rogers.

Uh the regular budget year to year for the last number of years has been to the tune of $600,000 to $700,000, somewhere around that range.

Um when budget deliberations happened for 2025 and the decision was made to reduce that to 400,000.

Uh it's important to recognize that we were in a contract up until May 31st.

And so half of the annual fee was allotted to that budget, and that's what uh created the budget limit of $100,000 was remaining for the remainder of this year.

So I think it still stands that um um you know the the staff have done the um the adequate and uh sufficient uh assessment of the um RFP stative, you know, possibilities to consider those that have put submitted bids.

Um, and I think the additional assurance option too is is valid and supported.

Thank you.

Council McKenzie.

My preference is for staff's recommendation, um, so the a hundred thousand, uh and that's because I see this as a a little bit of a trial to do the most cost-effective option, see what that looks like, see what residents' feedback is on that, so that that can help us determine next time uh when we do the the next RFP if we need to include additional funds.

I think it's kind of um yeah if if we add that additional amount in there as Counselor Rogers is proposing, I think they'll make use of that and we're not really testing what is the least we can do or like most cost effective route we can take.

So that's why I I I wouldn't move or agree with option two.

Counselor Batt.

Yeah my preference should be to keep that extra funds in there put it in the budget if it doesn't get used, it's uh become surplus.

So that's not like it's just disappearing.

Uh I prefer to have it in there rather than hunting and pecking to find ways to pay for something that comes up that's unexpected.

So I think I could be wrong.

I think RLC has quite a few other fairly significant contracts.

Um I can't recall what they are.

Do you know, Ben, that's without disclosing too much, yes, RLC uh essentially they provide references.

All of them provide references, and they had very good references and uh sizable contracts similar to the size of what this is.

Uh and uh one uh final question.

The initial boulevard maintenance contract had putting up Christmas lights and I think banners as well.

Is that included in this price?

Uh so it was possibly misunderstood previously, uh putting up banners and Christmas lights is not included.

It was never included in the boulevard contract.

So it was a service that uh is paid for by the town, uh, but as an additional item outside of this contract.

Okay.

Okay, understood.

Thank you.

Uh Council Lemon.

Quick question.

Um used to be, like last year, uh, that there was uh bul they did boulevard maintenance.

Um, Victoria Contracting did boulevard maintenance twice a year.

Um, but what I'm hearing from you that is that there is no more and actually hasn't been any for the last while.

Through the mayor, uh Councillor Lemon.

Regular boulevard maintenance has continued until May 31st.

So that in Yeah, I think I'm I'm I think I'm I'm I'm talking about, you know, in residential streets where residents are supposed to maintain their boulevards, but there was uh for years, twice a year um a crew would come around with their weed whackers and whack.

Yes, okay.

Uh so there is a level of classification of maintenance which we call semi-annual, and um that's a very bare bones uh level of maintenance, and essentially it is a crew with line trimmers uh that will go up and down streets, and um uh uh there are many residential streets that that can get that treatment whether or not they need it all depends on what level of maintenance the homeowner is providing um that level of maintenance is sort of a bare bones um road safety level of maintenance just to make sure that we're staying on top of overgrowth on the road shoulder okay good thank you um i'm i'm supporting um counselor rogers motion um because you know i it's a slippery slope i hate cliches but it's a slippery slope and and i i don't think we want the town to begin to slide you we're we're known and respected and we love um veer oil for for its aesthetics as well as everything else.

So um yeah, I I'm I'm prepared for us to ante up a bit more just to maintain a level.

Thank you.

Any other questions or comments?

Seeing none, I'll call the question.

So councillor Rogers motion is for option two.

That's for RLC for 142,376 to provide uh provisional work as required.

All those in favor with option two.

All those opposed to option two.

Uh so myself, Councillor McKenzie, and I think Councillor Matson, you are opposed uh as well.

Okay, so the motion for option two passes.

Thanks, Ben.

And we have electronic records information management solution RFP Award.

Sarah.

Thank you very much.

I am very excited to be here.

This project has been uh frankly years in the making, and it's finally time that technology has caught up with records, which is kind of funny because it's rare that records are ahead of technology, and in this case, it's that we needed our uh M365 or Microsoft to catch up with what we needed our records to look like, and finally we're there.

And so we're we're very thrilled about that.

So before you, you have a request to award our contract for electronic records and information management solution to Atlantis solutions in the amount of 164,710.

And I can quickly walk you through what has transpired.

So we um we did go out, and and as described over the last number of years and carried forward for the last number of years, you'll look at the project number, it's a C004, and as I did say, it was, it's been a while.

And originally we had thought about perhaps going to a third party company and having um purchasing like a software and having a renewal every year.

And then there was COVID.

And we didn't do that because we we thought at that point we knew we were going to move forward with Microsoft Teams and Microsoft 365.

And so that came on board in in 2019.

And then COVID struck, and then it was busy, and then there were staff turnover in our records area.

And so finally we're we're there.

Staff is caught up.

Everything is the stars are aligning.

And uh we we do have now technology that that is with us.

And so the team of our IT manager, uh, our records person, Mel Denise, uh myself, and uh uh an external person who knows an awful lot more about the technology than ourselves got together and put out an RFP that went on Feb 3rd, closed six weeks later, mid March.

Ten proposals were received from firms across across across, and I was going to say North America, but it was just simply Canada and the US.

Of those, six were over the budget.

And so we didn't spend much time at all with those.

Four were on budget.

Of those, one we didn't sense were hitting all the things that we were looking to in our evaluation, which were methodology, qualifications, and experience.

Was the design functionality good?

What was the pricing and structure like?

And what was going to be the ease of use for the end user?

And from that, we found that Atlantis really met what we were looking for.

And we went ahead then with the four, and we interviewed three of those.

They had good project personnel on the project with extensive experience, particularly in including BC.

Their solution meets the scope of what we were looking for in our project deliverables.

And they're flexible in their cost and their solutions and what we thought we could achieve out of the project.

And in thinking about this project, we're looking at other municipalities and where we don't want to go.

And we were thinking about Pinoca, Fort St.

John, and uh other places across Canada.

And we're looking at places where we do want to go, and that the places that that are already going there.

And Langford for a number of years has actually been using SharePoint and storing their documents, and CRD is already going this way, and Callwood is headed that way, and as well as many other places across Canada, North America, and Europe and other countries.

And so this is the way of the future, the wave of the future.

And we think it will also help with cybersecurity and risk.

And it's a way we can leverage our Microsoft platform that we already have and are using those licenses to to better, I guess, harness the information that we're already creating and to get off of our local area networks and to better collaborate internally with our teams.

And some departments are already using it.

We just want to now make sure that that information is not stored on our Y drive, not partially stored in shared Y cloud areas or the cloud, but get everything properly stored and sorted on our cloud so that we can all access it when we need to.

And uh and also with cybersecurity in mind and preventing any breaches, it it helps with that because we're able to better use what Microsoft has available to watch for and protect our data.

And uh I was interested and alarmed when I was reading about the cost of data breach report for 2024, IBM's report about oh, well, there's 75 incidents a day, and I think our mayor probably knows a lot about this, and then the average cost six point something million dollars per incident.

And I thought, well, a small place like Fort St.

John, um, Pinoca, Huntsville, and I thought, view royal, six point something million, that's a big big kick.

So I thought, okay, well, let's see what we can do to to try and further protect ourselves.

And so it has been something we've been thinking about and trying to gear ourselves up, not just for records, but generally as a piece towards our information governance and and how can we achieve that.

And so before you is what we think is a really good proposal, and we'd like to get further along the line.

We have already started in trying to um hone our classification system so that we're not kind of like when you pack for a trip.

You want to pack your suitcase and then look at it and you know winnow it down a little bit further.

So we want to keep winnowing down what we're moving to the clouds so it's a bit tidier rather than full on classification system that we currently have, even though the system can handle it.

We want to make sure it's a tidy move and uh and do it in the right way.

And uh so it's less less baggage that we're bringing, but we do want to do it in a good way.

So we've already started that type of step.

I know that Mel has been working with the different departments over the last year, interviewing them about systems, how they interact with each other, what they're working on together, and how we can better support those interactions and connectivity, because we want it to be a system that works for staff and how they interact and how they work together on permits and applications and information that's coming into them and then what they generate and what they're putting out.

And that's I think all I have to say about this.

I hope it's understandable.

I know you've seen that project summary year after year.

I hope this year was the last year you saw it with this project.

Great.

Thanks, Sarah.

Go ahead, Councillor Brown.

Can I assume that it's going to save time for staff time?

And also a second point, um, and also to retrieve information, especially when people do FYI requests and to be very prompt.

I I'm somewhat aware of what was SharePoint, of course, because I worked with the CRD, but um I think it's it's a big step forward and it's a it's a great step forward.

And thank you for your presentation.

That is a great question.

Thank you, Counselor Brown.

This will give us optical character um searching capabilities, OCR.

And I think it will mean a lot faster response times internally for us searching for our own documents when we have, oh, I remember when this happened in you know 2011, you know, oh there was a meeting, and and so to st was it between 2011 and 2014, like so to try and find those documents and then finding them across um something where you just type in a few keywords and it will just be able to pop up and I think this will be great for that and also great for foi requests it should be much more helpful I don't believe it will do I mean we could if we paid extra an awful lot extra for handwritten recognition but it will do the the type the type search counselor Canadian firm it is uh counselor Rogers and Councillor McKenzie yeah, thanks um yeah congratulations.

Just an amazing, amazing achievement to uh uh to you and Mel.

The um it does this include the fire hall.

Their records are stored as part of ours, so everything would be moving.

The only component that may not would be some of the mapping GIS components, is my understanding.

Okay.

Um I note in um in the the last page uh risks to success of the project is um uh challenging challenges around uh change management for staff.

Um and so it sounds like you've already got a jump on on that and and um bringing all the staff up to up to speed, what to anticipate, and and I understand it would be significant training to assist.

There are several departments that use it more heavily already than others or are trying to, and I think it comes from people coming from other organizations where they're already using it.

Um I can think of engineering and planning, for example, when they get applications in and they're commenting and doing the circulation of documents, it's so much easier to do it in a SharePoint environment than to say, well, I made six photocopies and I'm gonna circulate it on an internal mail system.

It's so much easier to do it this way, and then at the end to be able to, with this system, be able to upload and it well, not even upload because it will already be generated there, but to store it and save it in the cloud rather than to download and store it on our Y drive because that technically is how our records are to be stored by bylaw.

Well, the bylaw will then need to be changed so that our repository is going to be the cloud system when this is implemented.

So that will change and make it faster and easier as well.

Yeah, thank you.

My last comment is that this is such a huge deliverable in our strategic plan and in our financial plan.

And you know, we can be um hopefully by passing this, we'll be very proud to uh um achieve that in this uh um term.

Well done.

Council McKenzie.

Just a question uh based on something you said around you know making the search function a little bit easier for staff.

Now I'm thinking, does this impact at all the public uh facing side of documents?

Like, could that eventually help um you know the search function on our website too?

This won't because all our our documents are not made available that way.

What we are changing this year though is making our website more accessible and easier to use.

So I don't know if we will be adding tools that help um in searching for documents that way.

Okay thank you.

I'm just thinking um you know when I've used SharePoint in the past if if it's the same file that is on the um on our web page it could possibly also help because I know you have to put a lot of um kind of details as to what the file is and things like that um but maybe that's a future step uh I've just got one question Sarah how much um are we reliant on a local land system or um desktops like is that once this project is complete will we still have a liability of a local area network and servers here I think we will still need them for some of our mapping and GIS piece, perhaps.

Hi.

Oh yeah, thank you.

Mayor Tobias.

Yeah, mapping GS is one and another one is the our SCADA system for our sanitary sewer system.

So that has to be on a dedicated server.

But uh we've been working with Sarah's team on keeping that system robust and protected.

But those are the two I can think at the top of my head.

Okay.

Um just um uh just just a concern about maintaining enough security around um and any servers we have while still um uh moving a lot of our documents to the cloud.

So maybe part of a strategic plan that we could come up with eventually.

That's all I had.

Um this is great news.

Um does anybody like to move staff's recommendation.

Okay.

By Councond by counselor Brown, second by Councillor Rogers, all those in favor.

Any opposed?

Seeing none opposed, motion carries.

Thanks, Sarah.

Uh, so I think this brings us down to correspondence.

And um, my apologies for the first one that I will pull out, uh, and that's a letter from Chief Sam and its request for sponsorship uh for an island elders lunch in Lakongan territory.

That we also received one by email from a squimalt nation.

Um, and that uh what is for a more comprehensive they're on different dates in July, uh, but it's a more comprehensive um gathering, elders of Vancouver Island, paddling, um, and and it's gonna be quite uh an event.

So uh um ones they were received separately, so uh we missed it.

So essentially we have a request from a squamalt nation, which I believe is is surrounding the same event for a contribution and one from Songhe's nation, which uh is for a similar thing, uh more focused on uh the actual luncheon.

Um so it's it's up for our consideration to do it.

Uh we don't have I believe Scott a separate budget uh for uh First Nations reconciliation which is something we can identify for next year um uh but we also uh of course give to uh the fall powwow each year uh an amount uh and went with uh the town has been consistent with that before uh before our term or this term um uh i would recommend it would probably be in keeping to provide um a thousand dollars for each nation um uh and if you'll bear with me i can i think read um uh the requirement out and it was for uh they have raised about half of the 65 00 um dollars that they were getting because they're having to house um the elders here as well.

Um so if um we i could get a seconder uh just to start discussion uh oh please so um uh so there's a two separate letters one from Squam one from Songhe is about the same event different dates different dates but I believe it to be the same events.

I wasn't aware that there were two requests until I talked with the CAO just before the meeting.

Okay so we um and I I'm I I cannot recall how much uh we give for the the Powell um event um does anybody know?

I think our through the mirror uh each of the last three years it was $2,500.

Yeah so um I'm not exactly thrilled about giving more than twenty five hundred dollars a year um to um first nations events so um how we disperse that you know there um is is uh I think a a topic we should uh you know consider you know if we give 500 each to this then that would be 1500 or you know yeah um a thousand less than uh to the powell i wasn't necessarily qualifying but if that's your opinion that's my analogy yeah uh i'll put that forward for consideration other thoughts counselor brand i think it's important for uh reconciliation purposes and to me a thousand dollars is not a lot obviously it's a actually a tiny percentage of what of their overall cost i think it's good uh good PR because we're we'll have uh elders from other other nations as well so i think it's uh a good opportunity um I hopefully uh we'll get an invite to it as well be nice thanks Councillor Brent uh any other thoughts or comments and uh Scott and Ron go ahead sorry yeah I mean it's very nice to sort of give funds to our neighbors but I don't see how this is a town responsibility and uh what it has to do with our taxpayers I I think uh you know setting an amount and then figuring out how we're gonna disperse it um well it makes makes more sense to me than just keep you know arbitrarily adding a thousand here, a thousand there.

Um anyways, I I don't think this the fact that somebody wants to have a function uh is the town's responsibility, especially when we're not participating.

Thank you.

Uh let's go to anybody new with a comment first, Councilor Rogers or questions?

Councilor Lemon?

So to be clear, we it is the same event.

Just the one of them has the date wrong or date.

Or one of them could be sponsoring one part of the event and the other one could be res responsible for the everything.

Okay.

A thousand.

Uh yeah, I think it's important that we contribute.

A thousand does sound each does sound a little bit rich to me.

Um I I would be more comfortable with maybe 500 each, but I'll see see what my colleagues say.

Great.

Thank you.

Council Mackenzie?

Yeah, I agree.

I think um originally when I saw this, I I was thinking also 500 uh without basing on anything else.

That was just the number that popped in my head.

I think it would be good for us to contribute.

I think compared to you are grant grants and aid, this is 500 would be a very little amount.

Um, and I think it does it is our community.

There's our neighbors who we see um every day around View Royal so I think it does impact our town as well so um that's why I I would be supportive of 500 each I'll make that motion then 500 to each excellent uh and uh any other comments questions counselor I I didn't have a seconder yeah so uh so this is fine um so the no motion was actually on the table so it's 500 for each nation councilor rogers uh okay speaking to the motion um we do not know um I I thought there didn't be a good question.

Yeah, you've got a second or yeah.

Yeah so um we do not know um how far afield this letter has gone to.

Is it Jeff Tav or any other municipalities?

And I think that's one of the big uh factors where we consider in grants of aid and and um and uh the um importance of the um uh pow they have every fall is that all of the other municipalities recognize this significance and make the contribution.

I would have felt uh much better about making uh an off to this if uh this letter had gone actually to other municipalities, um Esquamel, for example, another neighbor.

Um Sanditz is uh is good as neighbors is as well.

So um without knowing where this had uh gone out to, I would uh vote against it and should gladly support the fall powell.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councillor Rogers.

Uh so we have uh motion on the floor for 500 for each nation in relation to the elders' uh activities on Lanquanwan territory.

There's no other comments or questions.

All those in favor, five hundred each to uh both nations for the event.

All those opposed.

Seeing Councilor Rogers and Counselor Mattson are opposed, the motion carries.

Uh thank you for that.

And actually, I supported the motion.

Oh, you did?

Okay, thank you.

Uh I'll look to reduce the uh Powell grant later on, but okay.

Thank you, Councilor Mattson.

So uh Councilor Mattson voted in favor.

Uh Councilor Rogers did not.

Does anybody want to um uh the staff recommendation for the other um comments or to receive?

Does anybody want to pull one out?

Move a shade.

Is there a seconder from B to Cecond.

We've got uh mover and a seconder to receive.

So if we're gonna receive it, we're not gonna talk about it because that's pulling it up.

Yeah, we can we can do that now.

We've got a motion to receive that doesn't stifle conversation.

The motion's on the table to receive it.

But we're not going to action it.

If you want to make a comment about it, that's fine.

But if we're going to put an action on it, then it's not receive anymore.

I just need to know what's considered a short-term rental of your primary residence.

I mean, people get transferred or um they get ill or um uh they retire and they want to go away for three months.

I mean, is it three months?

Is it is it like weekends um Airbnb?

I I don't know.

It's not a lot of detail uh for me.

Um I'm sorry, it is just done I know our strata, we just uh voted not to allow anyone to do short-term rentals in our strata.

So uh I I need before I could even make a decision.

I mean just to receive it is fine, but to make any kind of decision I'd have to have uh quite a bit more information.

Maybe I don't maybe planning department could give me a better idea of what would be considered a short-term rental.

I don't I don't know what that would be.

Yeah.

Well, we're actually pulling things out now, so we're not gonna receive as a block.

Um let's go down these one or one by one.

Otherwise, we're lost.

So let's go with item B next.

Um, just to get through these.

Uh so uh Council Brown, you've already made um uh a comment uh about that.

If we'd like to refer that to staff, we can.

But is what what's your intent for for the action?

I'd be happy to make a motion to refer to that because personally I don't know what others feel.

Uh I don't have enough information.

I don't know what it looks like.

I mean, people could be gone six months of the year and and renting it out.

I don't know if that's good or bad.

Um, I wouldn't like it if I was a neighbor and or every weekend you get different people in there.

Personally, I wouldn't want that at all.

But again, I don't know what the intent of the writer is.

Other thoughts, Councilor lemon.

Well, I believe that we eliminated short-term rentals or Airbnbs, did we not um and substituted um business licensed bed and breakfasts so there i think what this writer is referring to is that we don't have them anymore and she sees a loss she he sees a loss for people staying at the hospital um or who have somebody in hospital and and need a place to stay uh and i think this uh correct uh counselor lemon that this is uh provincial legislation and it's less to do with us.

Councilor Rogers.

Yeah, I just want to um remind folks that um uh we do have the amazing janish place next door to the the hospital and uh it does a fabulous job of assisting families, uh you know, particularly with the the children focus, and and uh we have now got a lot more uh accommodations units on Erskine Lane that are that are now available that hadn't been available before.

So um, you know, unless uh we actually hear from the uh the hospital itself um giving us a shout out that there's issues, um, I I think uh we're doing well.

Thank you.

Thanks, Counselor uh Rogers.

So we do have the provincial legislation and uh uh so uh uh did you want to make a motion to refer Counselor Brown or Yeah, I'll make that motion.

It would be nice to get uh a little more info um the intent for sure and and thank you counselor rogers for mentioning Janice place because uh my sister in law works there quite often and it's uh quite off full and people use it from all over the island uh when they have sick family members in particular and need a short term place to stay it's very it's very nice in there I've been in there many many times and uh um yeah it's a great asset to have in our community yeah counselor Matson and my recollection is council made the decision to remove sec short-term rentals because we wanted uh to open up accommodation to people who live there in the longer term and deal with that's part of our way of dealing with that the unhoused or the the housing shortage issue and so by allowing short-term rentals what it means is uh potentially people who would otherwise be living in a place you know as their home will either could be displaced or they wouldn't get an opportunity to move there because people are using them as short-term rentals so I'm certainly don't want to see us go back to short-term rentals.

Okay.

Uh other thoughts, comments?

So do we uh was there a motion to refer or were you looking for a seconder or yeah I made a motion I thought Councillor Lemon seconded.

I think no didn't okay.

I made a motion to refer it back to staff.

I mean, I agree with what Councillor Matson saying because uh we'll probably get a letter from Mr.

Cal uh Ravi again.

So uh um if we do that uh yeah again as a personally as a neighbor, uh if someone was renting their house every weekend there's different people there, uh you never know who you're gonna get.

You're probably gonna get nice people from other countries, you may not, you may get a bunch of yahoo's in there that are partying and destroy the place, and you're next door to it.

So um, yeah, I'm not a big supporter of uh short-term rentals.

And and I, you know, I uh um validate the cause that they're citing here, but that won't be the cause that somebody's doing a short-term rental.

Um, so I'm I'm happy to receive this if somebody wanted to second that.

Receive, yeah.

Second, second.

All those in favor of receipt.

Any opposed?

I think no opposed.

Uh motion carries.

Anybody want to pull anything else out for 9-2?

And that's for information.

Going once, twice, three times.

Nothing.

So from uh can I get a motion to receive items A through C for 9-2, please?

Receipt the block.

Receive the block from Councillor Lemon, seconded by Councilor Brown.

All those in favor?

Any opposed?

Seeing none opposed, motion carries.

And bylaws.

We're down to Sarah, is this you again?

Good evening, Elna.

Before you this evening, we have a procedure bylaw amendment.

The microphone.

There we go.

At the last meeting, council approved start times for council and committee of the whole meetings to commence at 6 p.m.

So the bylaw before you tonight incorporates that change.

And while preparing the bylaw amendment, I looked for ways that the council and committee of the whole meetings could be streamlined.

So on top of that meeting, the change to the meeting time, the bylaw before you contains four items that I'd like to highlight for you.

So firstly, question period has now been combined or is proposed to be combined with public participation period.

So that allows for the public to ask questions at the beginning of the meeting rather than having to wait until the end of the meeting.

Secondly, the bylaws are proposed to be moved up closer to the beginning of the meeting so that council while they're still fresh can deliberate and vote on these important matters and often members of the public leave the meeting because it's towards the end of the meeting so they can also be present for these important decisions.

And thirdly, it's proposed to incorporate a consent agenda, which from time to time, council, you know, they're familiar with this, you use it for council or committee of the whole resolutions and correspondence for information.

And this now just formally includes that in the agenda.

However, there is a provision for a council member to move a specific item out of the consent agenda for further discussion.

And lastly, the bylaw proposes that delegations be solely heard at Committee of the Whole meetings.

This format is generally what we have been using since January, as Committee of the Whole meetings allow for a more in depth discussion.

And those provisions governing delegations have been refined so that the allotted time for each delegation has now been changed from 15 minutes to 10 minutes.

Sorry, 10 minutes, which is in keeping with what others are doing in the region, which is anywhere from five to 10 minutes.

As well as we are proposing to limit the number of uh delegations at each committee of the whole meeting to three, so that you know the committee can conduct their their own business.

So, in conclusion, a more in-depth uh bylaw amendment will be coming forward in the coming months, but I wanted to advance these changes prior to that more in-depth amendment.

And if you have any questions, Sarah or myself would be happy to answer them.

Thank you.

Um I'll lead with this one and that when I was chatting with Sarah, there was a difference between a delegation and a presentation.

But I think the presentation piece will come on a future bylaw.

The separation would be somebody comes before us unsolicited by any council member and makes a pitch, they've got 10 minutes to do it.

A presentation is somebody we invite to come and talk to us, or one of us invites that allows a little bit more time in the presentation, and we've requested them to come to us.

So that may come on a future bylaw if that's the will of council.

But I would be uh happy to support this one.

Uh, but I'd love to hear counsel's thoughts on it.

Councilor Lemon.

Uh my thought, I I feel, and I'm sorry, staff, um, that we were rushed last week and and made a hurried decision around a blanket six o'clock for Committee of the Whole and Council.

And and I I went home after the meeting and I started thinking about, you know, not everybody works from home.

Um, and it's getting to a six o'clock council meeting could be a rush for a lot of people.

If they work downtown.

It takes forever to get downtown during rush hour, it takes forever to get back.

Might have kids to pick up at daycare, school, activities, get supper, and then get to council.

Um my inclination is to keep council meetings, just council meetings at seven o'clock, and um move for the same reasons that we're moving committee of the whole to six to keep council at seven and keep committee of the whole at the proposed six o'clock.

And I'll make that a motion if I have a second or second.

Okay, uh, then I'll get you to motivate.

I think I just motivated.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah, no, it just makes sense.

Counselor Mattson, does you want to back up the motivation?

And there's a lot of people who could find it difficulty, could find it difficult to get here at six o'clock, especially if they are if they're at work and attempt to fight the traffic, etc.

Um, and it still allows the people who are are working and find it inconvenient to get there at 3 30 to get there at six.

So I support the motion for those reasons.

Okay, thank you.

Uh Council Rogers.

So let me show I understand this.

The motion is that uh we would keep committee of the whole at six and council meetings at seven.

So okay.

The um I just wonder if the public is um you know may not be able to make a distinction.

You know, for us we know it's committee of the whole, and but they may just think, well, it's an um it's a meeting of council.

Whatever the label is, it's a council label, it's a community whole label.

Um if we feel that um uh seven is a better time, then we should be either keeping seven for all or making six for all.

I mean the the um we would we had agreed that um we would test this out um at 6 p.m.

making it consistent.

And um um i i would I'm happy to do a test and and see what the the public feedback is um um just hang on a sec folks is the timing actually in this bylaw hit it yeah for six so we're um discussing that so i thought we had a fulsome discussion and i was in a council meeting and we voted in favor so i'm gonna call that out of order we've already made a decision on it so we we've already made a decision on that.

If we want to um you know take that back and aside, then this motion is on the bylaw.

If we want now what we're talking about is doing an amendment to it, right?

So if we're doing an amendment to it, I'll entertain that.

But council did vote on and it passed, I believe that it was going to be six o'clock for all three.

So the reason why I'm saying this is that we will go back in circles chasing our own decisions if we don't honor them.

Um and and so if that's the case, if you want to amend this uh now that it's a bylaw and put it to vote, then I have no opposition to that.

Is that the only thing or just that thing?

That is the only thing.

Okay.

That would be an amendment to that.

Okay.

Okay.

That's fine.

Is there any uh we've did you want to speak any more on that uh counselor matzen are you motivated sufficiently I'm assuming motivated sufficiently.

Uh uh sorry I was pushing the wrong button.

Yeah um people certainly knew that we meeting started at uh committee of the whole started at 3 30 and they'll be aware that it starts at six so I don't see where there's an an issue and I don't think we need to have everything at the same time because we haven't had everything at the same time for the last thir tw 30 years.

I I'm happy with the motion we passed last time for six o'clock uh for for working.

Um Counselor uh Brown, I'll go to you, but I uh curious on Counselor Quich and Counselor McKenzie, who are both uh full in day jobs as well.

Um counselor McKenzie brought up first, and I totally agree that 330 is is difficult for a lot of people.

I do agree a hundred percent with that.

And I think when I discussed it, um staff is still here at 3 30.

So if staff need to do presentations, they're still here.

But if we go later than that, um that means more time for them.

I know well, time off from Lou, possibly paid time for some staff, like uh Lubert, Ben Luberts.

I mean, he's not a uh director, so that would be overtime.

Um, so that was I I try to make it a balance that out a little bit more so by making it six and six well there's the consistency for sure.

Um and it does give people enough just enough time to to grab a bite to eat and come to the meeting.

And and you're not burning your staff out or or us out even uh by staying here till I know it's in theory if we start an hour early we'll finish an hour leave maybe maybe not I know but hopefully um I suppose we could try it on a we could always change it later um so um yeah for for multiple reasons I I like I try to balance the the later time for the one with the an earlier time for the um for the uh regular meeting council we can think that having the consistent time would be useful i know when i've people have asked me oh when can i dial in or when is the council meeting having to explain okay the first and third week week of the month is this and then and people just it goes over their head whereas i think if i say you know it's six o'clock the first three weeks uh tuesday of the first three weeks of the month it's a lot easier to explain to people so that they're more likely to tune in rather than be like accept for six on this second week counselor quote you want to add?

Sure, I can.

We voted last week to have it at six o'clock, and I don't have any news on changing my mind on that.

I think we have a very low attendance for council meetings in general, probably one to three in person on average and under 10 online.

So changing it by one hour can only hope to improve our attendance and have more applicants and more candidates come out for consistency with their schedule.

And for that reason I support it.

Now the only question I have for Ms.

Bolster is were there'll still be a question period at the end?

Because a lot of time people who do sit through council meeting, then they come up with their question.

So no, the the question period is proposed to be um combined with public participation period at the beginning of the meeting.

However, um the public is welcome to always submit questions uh via email after the meeting and we could get back to them yeah well let's uh deal with the the timing first then let's move to the the next one uh so the motion on the table was to move everything to seven am i saying that correctly the amendment to this was to move to um uh the the six o'clock to seven o'clock start for all meetings.

No.

Seven o'clock start for council meetings.

Six o'clock for committee of the whole.

Okay.

And you've got a seconder, and that's councilor Matson.

All those in favor of seven o'clock for council and six o'clock for council the hope.

All those in favor.

All those opposed.

Uh so motion does not pass.

Um so we can do nothing and it stays at six, or if somebody wants to take another stab at it, that's fine.

But there was another pressing issue with um with the question period timing.

Uh Councillor Brown, the McKenzie.

Yeah, I'll be quick.

I agree with Councillor Kowalwich about the question period.

It's great to have it at the start.

I mean that makes sense.

But but he's right.

Stuff could happen during the meeting.

And you particularly someone's watching from uh online and something may come up in the meeting, they may have a question.

And if they have to wait the next day to send an email, I I don't know.

Um if there's some way of uh squeezing something in at the end, uh I don't know, question period two, whatever you want to call it, because stuff may come up during the meeting that people have questions about.

Councilor McKenzie and then Councillor Rogers.

Um, I so I kind of think on the other hand, um when it comes to question period, we don't really necessarily answer people's questions.

We kind of just hear them, right?

And then they go unanswered.

So in a way, by putting them at the beginning, we can consider those questions when we're responding or talking to the items, and people might actually get more of a response if they're asked at the beginning.

Yeah, I'm I'm kind of surprised that um, you know, I I thought we were just going to amend uh the the whole thing with um uh the start time.

And now we see a whole pile of other um suggestions of how we change the the process, combining question period public uh participation.

Uh we have the consent agenda, we have uh, and and I think what particularly concerns me is the um um the whole process for petitions and delegations for being limited to one day, and um uh which I think would be in um I think a considerable inconvenience to those individuals that want to make a petition and they're not able to make that that particular committee of the whole day.

That's the only chance to get the month.

They've got to wait and next time maybe.

So it's um I don't think it's been particularly onerous, uh onerous uh for us to have a schedule um petitions and delegations on any of the three days that we have uh that we meet.

Um to uh in frankly inconvenience um you know, a uh they may have a petition that that's of uh you know significance uh you know in terms of timing or grant applications or whatever.

Um like for example, we had uh the um uh the folks come to us to speak to um the whole aspects of um having a medical clinic.

Well sorry you'll have to wait until next uh a couple of weeks before you can talk to us about something that and then we would have to put that idea agenda item off.

So I really don't see the logic of um uh moving this to one day and and uh having and limit uh the number of delegations uh to three each uh to each committee the whole goodness gracious it's not it's you know you may have five that want to go to that particular day, but sorry, you know y we've only captured at three, so you are the two have to wait to the next month, which has a compounding effect.

So I it it it it's a a nice idea, but I think it's uh it puts too much restrictions and and red tape on on the whole pet petition delegation process.

I'm about to tease out uh colleagues your comments and see if you want to make those into motions.

Counselor McKenzie, you had a concern about moving the question period.

Did you want to put a motion that that question period remains the same at the uh near the end of the agenda?

Uh no, actually, mine would be I'm in favor of the way that staff is proposing it.

Okay.

Does anybody want to make a motion to either keep the question period the way it has been?

Uh I'll move that the question periods remain the same.

Okay.

Uh seconded by Councillor qualitage because he missed the uh the motion uh so uh to to keep it the same uh and uh counselor mattson do you want to motivate well just following up on what uh Damien mentioned it's hard to come up with a question before after you know before the events before the discussions happened right so that's the whole purpose of question period is if they have a question about something that happened to council not and you can't do that before council.

So it it only makes sense at question periods at the end.

Thank you.

Councillor Quillage, wanna thanks.

Uh just really quickly and certainly great points here by everybody, very thoughtful.

But I guess my my decision point for this would be we really want to promote openness.

We want to promote people feeling welcome and you know that kind of symbolism of having the last word, so to speak, and being able to query counsel.

And you're you're very correct.

We may not even answer the question, but the fact that we've sat here and listened, I think, is really valuable and is a very it's the very foundation of democracy and in G7 countries where where people can come and speak to their elected officials and we we listen.

Uh Council McKenzie and then Councillor Roger.

So I have a question uh for staff and also a comment.

So is it possible to also have two, like have it at the beginning and then another one at the end for anyone who wasn't able to ask their question or didn't have a question at the start.

Um I suppose I I suppose it's possible we could always um rename public participation period to public comment or um and then have a separate question period at the end.

Sarah yeah yeah certainly that's that's doable I I think the intent of moving it forward was such that people didn't have to wait an entire meeting because question period is really intended at this point for anything uh either on the agenda or not even on the agenda and so um it whereas public participation is limited to items on the agenda and so the thought was to have people not have to wait until the very end of the meeting and so if we did want to do um that type of suggestion as counselor McKenzie has indicated it would be perhaps prudent to do what um deputy corporate officer bolster has suggested which is perhaps rename the first area and and call the final area something like r remain with question period for that piece.

Okay thank you sorry thinking on it, it might not make a difference because people already have the ability to ask questions and public participation so um and then my a comment would be, you know, how many question real questions do we get in question period?

They're normally statements.

So is that something we should also consider in terms of is it a question period.

And I've had some good questions during public participation period where, but not at the end.

But you're right.

I mean, uh there is separate when uh those uh contentious issues come up.

Normally there's a separate um public participation period in those.

Um uh but in general, uh I I don't have a strong feeling either way.

However, I think it's nice to leave something at the end for the public to ask a question that's never in the form of a question.

Uh, but it it's uh it uh it is uh reassuring that they're participating.

Um Council Rogers.

Yeah, um we had a recent example where um a neighbor uh Gary Mathis uh came to uh uh to and and patiently waited to the end of the question period and he appreciated you know the wait.

He learned a little bit in in uh in in the evening as well.

Um but he he did appreciate and it was a question that was completely surprised, but you know, it was very thought provoking and and important issue and and I certainly went home and and checked CRDA um map and and saw this this building right on the corner and and uh I I recognized the issues.

And I certainly will be following up with the uh the neighbor with Gary and and uh hopefully um bring this to a layer future council.

So I'm I'm pleased that we had that opportunity, and I think Gary appreciated it as well.

Uh council Brown.

Again, I'll try and be quick.

Um when I was chairing, because you passed the chair on now for the Cal meetings, and I always make a point of talking to people in the audience, usually not very many, we're talking to empty chairs usually, but I did notice a fellow from the Rotary Club that was in the butt who I knew, and he was he wanted to make a presentation about the a pool.

And so I I knew that, and I was chairing, so I was able to get him up at the start of the meeting, and he was very happy that he's able to make his presentation and leave.

So it it it's kind of up to the chair to to to observe and and and uh yeah, you want people don't want to be sitting here for three and four hours waiting to make their their reserves make their questions.

So uh that's again just a suggestion for me Sarah.

Thank you your worship I was going to suggest perhaps that um when we did speak about having um a further or a follow-up uh amendments come later this year this may be something that we could further explore and see what other municipalities in the region are doing so perhaps it's something we leave this section as is for now and we can come back to it revisit it with better uh more fulsome examples and council can consider it at that time.

Okay, so um just affecting our voting.

So the so what has changed with the motion so far uh is the timing remains the same as uh as the staff's um uh report or recommendation goes.

Nothing else has changed on it, I think right now, and so what uh staff is saying uh that we will strike out the question period move for now, amend it, uh, and that that will come back to us more fulsomely later.

Correct?

So uh if we move this motion, we'll be moving it as is but without the movement of the question period, correct?

Correct.

We can deal with the time.

I think the other items were related to consent agenda, and so that is something that council already does, for example, with Committee of the Whole resolutions tonight.

Already that was uh put into play with the correspondence when you said let's do A2C or whatever the the uh the pieces from the correspondence for information.

And so that to us is how uh consent agenda works.

So things of that are not terribly consequential are dealt with on on block.

And so um that is a piece that's then formally embedded in the bylaw by this amendment, and then there's a piece also now formally proposed to be embedded, which is if a council member wishes to withdraw or move a piece out for further deliberation, um, as we did today, uh where you talk a little bit more in detail about something, or you can, that that is also then more formalized in this.

And so that's the piece with respect to the consent agenda.

And so that could be deliberated tonight if you wish to have that continue on and be part of this bylaw amendment.

And I think then the other piece has to do with delegations.

And I don't know if I'm missing.

Oh, yes, and moving the piece with respect to bylaw uh pieces up.

Um, that is also there.

And then there were some smaller, uh less consequential things like changing the name clerk to corporate officer, which is part of the legislation, and another piece just defining quorum more defined in the bylaw than it was previously, which described it as a council of five versus seven.

And and just to clarify the consent agenda, nothing will go on the consent agenda that we haven't discussed at like the committee of the whole.

Like though you we won't see it and then be nothing snuck in there.

And any council, the time to do that is when we approve the agenda.

If somebody's uh wants to pull something out, they just say I want to pull item B out, that item gets pulled out, and then you can speak to it uh separately.

That item then goes down to eight or whatever below the consent agenda as a new as a new line item.

Section 10.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Uh so are we happy or there's more discussion or comments or questions on the recommended uh action again, aside from the question period, everything else stands.

Councilor Rogers.

Yes, I I sorry, Ron, do you want go ahead, Councilor Manson?

Yeah, just to comment on consent agendas.

I've been at committees where, for example, the minutes are always in uh the consent agenda unless you want to pull them out because then you don't even have to waste time approving the motion because it all includes in the consent agenda.

So you can put a whole bunch of things that are just housekeeping in a consent agenda.

But I don't know, I support the consent agenda.

Okay, thanks.

Uh yeah, I don't have a problem with that.

Councillor Rogers, you had a point.

Yes.

Um if I may, I'd I'd like to discuss the uh the very significant change to uh petitions and delegations.

Um and uh I'm I am opposed to uh moving it to just the committee of the whole uh for reasons already stated.

Um I would um move that we um um return presentation delegations uh back to the way we had it so that it's an opportunity for uh each council meeting three days a week uh three times a week.

Month you mean a month.

So so we said a week.

Uh three three twenty two months.

Uh I'll second that.

Okay.

Can we vote on the earlier one?

Uh let's I'm just trying to keep us focused.

It's kind of getting near the end, so let's just deal with this one, Councilor Mattson.

Uh so sorry, don't we already have something on the table about the uh or or did or is that approved?

Uh nope, I don't think we approved that.

It was just a discussion point.

Councilor Rogers put it into a motion that and Councilor Rogers to get crunchy, you want the petitions and delegations to say the same as they are.

Is that correct?

Yes.

Okay, and Councilor Lemon seconded that.

So now it's on the table.

Is there any comments or questions about that?

Seeing none, let's put it to a vote.

Uh all those in favor that keeping the presentations and delegations the same in that they would be uh available at each council meeting and at the committee of the whole.

All those in favor of that.

Any opposed to that noticing counselor qualitation is opposed um counselor matsen were you uh in favor or opposed my hands are not up now i was in favor it's hard to see counselor matsen oh yeah it's i've supported the motion okay thank you uh so that motion passes uh counselor kualowicz uh was not in agreement is there anything else that anybody wants to change with this bylaw.

Okay.

Ella, you got to So Did we decide the question period was going to be left at the end?

Yes, the question period is going to be left at the end.

The only thing that's changed, I think, Elna, correct me if I'm wrong and Sarah, is that the uh presentations and delegations are now available at each um as they are now.

Okay.

Thanks.

Okay, so the the timing is still at six.

And the bylaws will move closer to the beginning.

And bylaws will move closer to the beginning.

Right.

Uh okay, uh, I think we're ready to pass this one, knowing that we've got another meeting after this uh council.

Uh so uh somebody want to move staff's recommendation as amended.

Moved by councillor Brown, seconded by councilor Rogers.

All those in favor?

Any opposed?

Seeing none opposed, motion carries.

Thank you, Elna.

Oh no, thank you, Sarah.

Much appreciated.

Sarah, do you want to uh read the n oh sorry uh before we go there?

Question period.

Seeing how there's nobody left in the room?

See it uh somebody removed it from my agenda already.

I couldn't find it.

Uh Carl, is anybody online that has a question for council?

Uh Mayor Tobias, one moment.

I'm just double checking.

Um Mayor Tobias, yes, we have a comment from Claire Mc McDougald um from View Royal Av.

And their uh question period comment is Will Town of View Royal please continue to show leadership by continuing the excellent opportunities for public participation.

Will you please continue the present opportunities for delegations?

And will you please continue the opportunity for questions at the end of the meeting?

There are so few generally that it doesn't seem like a time challenge.

Thank you.

I guess that three Qs, pardon that is three questions, pardon me.

And I think we answered them all with that last bylaw, man.

And so um uh so yeah, thank you, Claire.

Um so now we can go to a closed meeting, and thank you, Carl.

Now we can go to a closed meeting resolution.

Sarah.

That there is a need to have a meeting closed to the public and persons other than the immediate members of council, officers, employees of the town, and those identified under section 91, subsection two of the community charter shall be excluded on the basis of section 90, subsection 1c, labor.

Uh councillor Lemon moves to terminate and councillor Brown seconds.

All those in favor?

Any opposed?

Seeing none opposed.

Councilor Matson, are you still there?