Council Meeting

Good evening, View Royal, and welcome to the council meeting for Tuesday, November 19th, 2024.

Start off with a territorial acknowledgement that we recognize Lakongwin speaking people known today as the Esquimalt Nation and the Songhees Nation, and that their historic connections to these lands continue to this day.

I think Sarah's already briefed everybody in the audience about the protocol.

So if you're at home and you want to provide comments virtually during the public participation period or to ask questions during question period, you will see a QR code or a URL on the live webcast stream screen.

And you can uh go access the town's website under live webcast.

Once you access uh the form by QR or URL, uh a form pops up.

You can type in your comment or question to be read aloud at the appropriate time by a member of a webcast team.

There may be a bit of a delay in it, so please, if you're thinking about answering or asking a question or providing a comment, do so as soon as you can because by the time we reach it on the agenda, we don't want to miss your comment.

You'll start by uh providing your name and street name on the form if you are speaking or if you're speaking in council chambers.

Public participation comments are limited to five minutes for each speaker and must be related to items on the agenda.

Question period is open to any questions and is limited to two minutes for each speaker, and you will be timed.

This meeting will be recorded, and by participating in the webcast, you are consenting to being recorded, and the recording will be available on the town's website for future access.

And I have a motion to approve the agenda please certainly.

Sorry.

Item 8.1A I just uh I kind of wondered why that wasn't uh a an in-camera item uh to allow the people involved to uh make a presentation uh not in public um I don't know uh I I may be wrong but uh I know in the in the CRD typically for sections 57s they would have a closed session, uh people would wait outside and take their turn to come in, uh particularly if they were uh protesting against it.

Uh I'm not sure.

I don't see the couple here tonight, but they may be watching on TV.

I'm not sure.

Uh I just wondered if that item might be better even tabled or moved to in-camera.

I don't know what other counselors think.

Solid question, but I think it's protocol and I think it needs to be open, but I'm gonna push it to staff for an answer, please.

Uh thank you.

Yes, uh typically it's uh done in an open meeting and in checking with other municipalities.

They typically do do these in an open meeting.

It's an exception where we would do it in in an in-camera session.

I'm just wondering if they were invited to come and present to council.

Thank you for the question.

And in answer to the question, your worship, yes, they were given two weeks' advance notice of an invitation to attend with uh the property owner and an agent if they would like to attend.

Any other questions?

Uh Councilor Rogers?

Yes, thanks to staff.

The um there I do recall instances where uh we have done a 57 in-camera and uh individuals had uh had appreciated the ability to speak um directly and and candidly to uh to council.

Um how do we decide which are going to be in camera and which aren't?

Uh so th through the mayor.

Um, first of all, we received uh an email from the owners today saying that they aren't attending the meeting, and secondly, we took one section 57 in camera because council was receiving legal advice.

So uh are there any other questions for staff?

And I mean it's important we get this clear, but generally if it's a legal matter, then it goes into a closed session.

If there's something to report out of the closed session, it's part of Verizon report.

Um, but otherwise uh it's it's in the open.

That's why I'm kind of leaning to us tabling it because I I I've met with the owners and they've tried to get a lawyer and they've had difficulty because they're having problems with the engineer, and they try to get a lawyer, and every lawyer they contacted okay.

We're getting into the agenda.

So now what we need to do is just simply approve what's on the agenda.

Yeah, okay.

Let's do that and then move to table when it comes soon.

Uh so is there any other additions or suggestions about the agenda?

We've got a motion from Councillor Rogers, I think, and a seconder for Councillor Brown.

All those in favor to approve the agenda.

Any opposed?

Seeing none opposed, motion carries unanimously.

And uh we're down to the minutes and we have one set of minutes.

Can I get a motion to adopt the minutes for November 5th council meeting, please?

Moved by Councillor Brown, seconded by Councilor Rogers.

All those in favor.

Any opposed?

Seeing none opposed, motion carries.

Mayor's report.

I don't have much, but the power is already out in Callwood and parts of Langford.

So be grateful that you're in View Royal for the time being.

Um, and hope we don't get a power outage.

And uh just for staff alerted me that Ivan has rigged up an ingenious generator backup.

So should the power uh go out here, we should flawlessly maintain uh power.

But uh counselor Lemon, you're online.

We may lose you uh briefly, but you could if your power is not out you could try to log back in.

Um and uh with that I think we can go to petitions and delegations and uh our first one up is our presentation of the 2024 audit service plan.

Mr.

Vanderhorst good evening Mr.

Mayor uh hello council hopefully you can hear me okay I apologize due to the storm I am uh calling in from my phone.

Uh, staff has a copy of the audit service plan up I I'll just take you through a couple highlights.

Again, thank you for uh you know renewing with uh MMP and and having us go through your audit again this year.

We're excited to continue working with uh the town.

I'd like to start on uh page five of the PDF, please.

And the uh just to talk about a couple highlights.

Um, there are not a lot of changes uh to the audit this year.

One main change around the accounting standards around revenue uh and not tax revenues, but around sort of what we would call exchange revenues.

So where you're charging fees for services.

We do not anticipate that to have a large impact for the town, but we will go through the um steps of discussing it with staff and and looking at any potential areas of impact.

Um, in many of our other municipal clients, the focus of conversation has been around permitting and building inspection function, and potentially there's some minor changes coming there and how those permit fees would be recorded.

But we don't expect it to be a significant impact.

On the audit side, there's an assurance development there for group audits, an amendment to how we tackle group audits.

And you do have a group audit scenario with the West Shore Parks and Recreation Society.

So I have already been in contact with their auditor and their audit partner at KPMG to make sure that we're understanding the interaction between their audit and the numbers that the town records and what we need to do there related to this new audit standard.

The rest of the uh audit service plan uh very consistent with the prior few years on page uh nine of the uh PDF document.

Um right about the middle of the page, we have the materiality.

Uh sorry, I apologize, a couple pages back, uh page six.

Thank you.

Materiality is noted there in the middle of the pages as $1.1 million dollars.

That is an important number for your audit.

We calculated as a percentage of uh your annual revenues, that's based on estimated revenue.

So we will revisit that when we see what the 2024 results were.

And that drives our audit testing.

If we have any discussions with staff around disagreements on accounting transactions and the way things are recorded, that's my threshold for being able to give you a clean audit opinion or not a clean audit opinion.

And so it is important to the audit and the audit process.

So returning again for that continuity for for the town.

In the appendix A on page eight you have more details around uh what I talked about in in the revenue and and group audit.

Um and then I believe the final um final confirmation in the audit service plan would be to discuss independence.

Uh MMP has not done any other projects or any other work with the town this year that would impair my ability to give you an independent audit opinion.

I will reconfirm that in the spring when we when we complete our our year and audit when we come back to report on the audit findings.

And the only other thing is that we are scheduled to start our interim work in in a couple weeks and we start with looking at controls and talking with staff around how the year went, and that gives us our kickoff to to come back in in the spring.

Thank you again for uh inviting me to present you.

I will stop there and I'd be happy to answer any questions if council has questions on the audit plan.

Thank you.

Uh any questions from council?

Counselor uh Madsen, please.

Thank you.

On another one of the boards we have is whenever we have the audit uh report, we have sort of an in-camera session where we ask the auditors whether they had any problems with our staff getting information.

And you know, normally it's always no, we no, we didn't, and it was it was good relationships all the way around.

Um but at the start, we always invite the audit teams, should they have any problems or disagreements that they can't clarify with with staff to contact the our chair, which I guess in this case would be the mayor.

So I'm assuming you would do the same thing.

Yes, uh thank you, Councilman.

Absolutely.

Uh if we had any any issues with obtaining information or dealing with uh town staff, we we would go directly to the mayor and and as uh as the mayor's as the representative of the people is is who has engaged uh us as the auditor.

Um, you know, the the past history of the last uh I believe four or five years of our audit, we've never had any any concerns.

Uh I don't anticipate that again, but that is always an avenue for us if if we needed to uh raise that issue with council.

Yeah.

Okay, I just felt cumbent to raise it, but I just the other comment is I've heard nothing but good things from both of you about each other.

So thank you.

Yes, we we uh this is uh one of our favorite odds uh I think you have a great staff there.

Um they spend a lot of time and effort getting ready for us and it's greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

If there are no uh questions uh thank you very much for the presentation Corey and uh look forward to seeing you a bit later in the year.

Sounds good.

Thanks everyone good night.

And I think that moves us to item B for petitions and delegations.

And it's uh L.

Rojas and Abe Miller for a ban on consumer fireworks.

I think Sarah's already briefed you on the time and how to activate the microphone, so take your time.

The timer starts when you push the button or when Sarah pushes the button, I'm not sure which.

I believe they provide a solid foundation for this meeting and will enhance your understanding of the topic at hand.

Do you know that now people and BC buy fireworks online?

The time has come to move beyond peacemeal restrictions.

Fireworks can be extremely stressful for individuals with BSTD, autism, and those with heightened sensory perception, often leading to anxiety, disorientation, and panic attacks.

The environmental hazards are significant, with fireworks releasing harmful chemicals, heavy metals, in particular matter into the air and water affecting both human health and local ecosystem.

The effects on animals can be devastating.

In Vancouver, several dogs have tragically died due to fireworks induced panic.

Some dogs have bolted into the street and struck by vehicles while one dog while one dog and sorry, I got distracted with this sound.

Um I said okay.

Strack by vehicle I'm sorry.

Struck by vehicles while one dog was killed after running into train train trucks causing fatal collision.

Larger animals like horse have been euthanized due to severe injuries caused by firework induced panic.

The sudden disturbance can disorient birds, especially at night.

This disorientation can lead to fatal outcomes with birds colliding with buildings, car trees, and other obstacles.

And one tragic accident, about 5,000 red-wing blackbirds died on New Year's Eve 2010, when professional grave fireworks were illegally set off in Alkansas, USA.

Hundreds of birds, primarily starlings, were found dead on the streets of Rome.

This incident was described as a massacre by animal rights groups.

I hear that cats must be kept indoors due to their impact on bird hunting, but some don't seem to consider the horror that fireworks cause to avian wildlife.

I am here to propose an initiative aimed at enhancing safety and environmental protection by advocating for provincial ban on the sale and possession of fireworks while allowing licensed professionals to display on New Year and Victoria Day.

I urge you to consider supporting this initiative by drafting a resolution that advocates for a provincial ban on fireworks.

I understand that Sarah Herring, government relations officer of the BCSBCA, will consider providing us with a letter of support if there are councils interested.

Yesterday we addressed the municipality of Mechose and passed a motion to send it to the IBCC.

Thank you for considering this important initiative.

Okay, there we go.

Okay.

Andrea Miller, 2446, Parkridge Place in View Royal.

Hello, Mayor Tobias and Council.

Thank you for listening to our concerns.

I will be brief as much has already been said, and you receive materials that we sent you.

Only a comprehensive provincial ban can address the issues of the fire of fireworks uniformly and effectively.

Such a ban would eliminate confusion about where and when fireworks are allowed, streamline enforcement efforts, prevent exploitation of differing municipal regulations, and ensure consistent protection for all residents, animals, and the environment across the province.

I would like to give some examples of some damage that fireworks have caused.

As we know, an estimated 40% of BC wildfires are started by human activity, and this includes fireworks.

Just this July in Nanaimo, fireworks set off by a group of young people sparked a fire in Pipers Lagoon Park, an ecologically sensitive space.

Injuries are always also very common every year.

In one instance in Vancouver, a teen was hurt when fireworks blew up in his hand.

The noise of fireworks especially affects our wildlife, our beloved bears, and our wonderful pets.

Horses on BC farms have panicked and injured themselves trying to flee from fireworks noise.

They broke through fences, sustaining cuts and broken bones, and worse.

Dogs in urban areas like View Royal have escaped yards in terror, getting lost or hit by cars.

Nesting seabirds along BC's coast have abandoned their nests and masts when startled by fireworks, leaving eggs and chicks vulnerable.

Migratory birds resting in Metro Vancouver parks have been disoriented by fireworks, resulting in them flying into buildings at night.

And humans are also very much affected.

Refugees in Vancouver from war-torn countries have experienced panic attacks and PTSD episodes triggered by the fireworks sounds.

I have also heard some comments that some of our war veterans are affected.

Sadly, we all, all of us here probably have our own examples in our homes and our neighborhoods about the effects of fireworks.

In my view, rural neighborhood, fireworks noises go on for several days after Halloween and are heard on summer holidays and actually throughout the whole year.

After this last Halloween, I decided something needed to be done, and I found out Lavinia was launching this project to approach municipalities in the area.

So let's move forward with a provincial wide van.

Thank you.

Thank you, Andrea.

Normally we can we can ask questions for clarity for certain.

Go ahead, John.

There may be a question for you if you don't mind remaining at the mic, please.

Go ahead, John.

Thank you.

Thanks for coming tonight.

And I understand you're you're going around to different municipalities.

Where have you been and uh so far and and what has been their response, the other municipalities?

Yeah as I mentioned we wear and Michosin last night that was our second, the first was in Victoria.

Um but it was just a council meeting, it wasn't a committee in the whole.

I don't think it was serious enough.

And I'm not holding my breath in Victoria.

But I am writing letters and speaking to them.

Um see whether they can, you know.

So is um I'm wondering, Matchosen, for example, are they interested in uh making yes, they voted the mo the motion to pass a resolution to AVEC.

Okay, great.

Thank you.

It was a unanimous decision by them yesterday.

We were very happy about it.

Okay, uh they seem to be quite interested, but we will um I have appointments, we have appointments with all the municipalities, but we're waiting now for days and times.

Any other questions for presenters?

Jerry.

Yes, thank you.

Thank you for this.

And um I I'm completely on board myself, but um Ms.

Rojas uh stated that fireworks are available online, and I'm wondering if that's the majority of fireworks that are purchased, and if so, you know, how effective could a provincial ban be?

No, uh good point, uh, Councilor Lemon.

I'm not sure if our presenters could answer that.

I've got a question myself.

Is it the issue of purchasing the fireworks, or is the real issue the discharge of fireworks?

Because we could put a ban on, Councilor Lemon's point, um, they may be available online.

Gosh knows you can buy everything else online.

Um, but your real issue is the discharge of the fireworks as much as it is because somebody could roll in from Alberta with a truckload of them, and you would still have the problem that you're facing.

So is the your your challenge really the discharge of fireworks or the purchasing of fireworks?

Well, it's possession is the sale and possession, both.

As I mentioned it in my speech to you.

Um only allow the licensed professionals.

And only to this, and then the police chief gave me a letter.

Very pleased that I am doing this.

They want to see legislative changes.

Tomorrow hopefully I will be speaking with the chief of police, the chief of firemen, the new Mr.

Hollander.

So I think if we have the police, it's very interested in having this, and they will obviously they will be very involved in catching.

If anybody comes from outside of the province, they are going to be right there.

I have no doubt of that.

Because they are extremely interested in getting this done.

Thank you very much for your presentation and answering some questions.

Thank you.

I think if there's no other questions, thank you very much.

Thank you.

So I think our and uh just a reminder for council, if uh council member wants to use this as motivation to put in a notice of motion that we can deliberate on uh for future, then uh you don't even have to say so now.

Uh you can you can uh put in a notice of motion and we can uh do that.

But uh all I would say is that um if Machosen already is and we're looking to replicate that instead of passing a motion, just cover the motion or support the motion that's right to investigate with further other municipalities yeah and if uh if you're advocating for us to take the lead I'm happy with that too we just need to know who's who's done something already and if there's an intention to um and I think that brings us to public participation period is anybody in the room like to address counsel on any topic that's related to the agenda.

Thanks Sarah you're in my mind um and if there's nobody here Carl we got anybody that's sent in a uh comment mayor toias uh no questions or comments on the board today okay uh so this brings us to uh we've no got no business uh rising from previous minutes just the staff report we're now on 8 1 so this is this section 57 notice on title uh for 12 Vickery Road um councillor Brown you had a concern with this agenda item and I just wanted you to voice that before we go ahead uh no actually I'd be prepared to pass the staff recommendation but with motivation okay uh and let's hear from staff and you're more than welcome to spend the whole uh meeting with us, but you don't necessarily have to.

Sounds right.

Good evening, Mayor and Council.

Um, so tonight, purpose of me being here is to inform you of a residential property with non-permitted construction in contravention of the BC Building Code, um, town of V Royal's building bylaw, and to request council to pass a resolution directing staff to file a notice against the title of the property under uh 12 Vickery under section 57 of the community charter.

So um my job as the building inspector and within the building department uh is to make sure we ensure all construction in V Royal complies with the town's building bylaw and the BC Building Code.

Making sure buildings are safe and suitable for their intended use.

Work done without required permits and inspections cannot be confirmed as meeting life safety and minimum compliance standards under section 57 of the community charter.

A notice may be placed on a property's title to inform potential buyers, lenders, and others of a bylaw violation, such as unpermitted or non-compliant construction.

A section 57 also protects the town from any liabilities against the property.

However, filing a section 57 notice does not negate the municipality's responsibility to address unsafe conditions or enforce building codes.

If unpermitted construction creates a hazard, the municipality may still need to take further action to protect public safety.

If the town does not file a section 57 notice on the title of 12 Hickery Road, then it may put the town at risk of liability.

So just a bit of background for this property.

It's a two story single family dwelling.

The subject property is currently owned by John Becker from 2017 till present.

The property is currently zoned R1B, detached residential medium lot, which permits a single family dwelling with a secondary suite and/or garden suite.

This is just a snap of where the house is at currently.

And then I'll give you a bit of uh permit history.

So October 4th, 2019, the town of U Royal issued an approved building permit to John and Anna Becker for the construction of a single family dwelling at 12 Vickery Road.

The permit was renewed annually in October 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, and then it's expired now of October 4th this year.

One of the issues right now is that based on our building bylaw, um, there's no availability uh to renew this current permit.

Um switch to the next slide here.

Uh the single family dwelling design was uh required a structural engineer.

Certain aspects fell outside the scope of the BC Building Code.

The owners engaged Viewpoint Consulting Limited, who provided engineered plans for the building permit application.

Inspections were conducted at the required stages of both the engineer of record and town of view royal up to framing of the building.

Town records show no framing inspections were conducted or approved by the town of View Royal.

Um I would just update you on that because we did find one uh inspection report from the previous inspector.

It was a partial for framing and plumbing at the time.

Um the engineer of record performed three preliminary framing inspections, none of which passed due to a list of deficiencies needing correction by the owner contractor.

Um full framing inspection by the EOR was also not approved as deficiencies remained unresolved.

As a result, all further inspection requests to the town of Uroyal were denied as the project could not progress without both the engineer of record and town of view royal approvals for framing.

Go to five here.

Um next slide.

Oops, nope, not there yet.

Um, so last December, the owners engaged with the engineers and geoscientists of British Columbia, EGBC, and filed an investigation into their uh energy um engineer of record.

During the investigation, the engineer is suspended from all work on the project until such time as the investigation concludes.

As of today, the town has not received EGBC's investigation conclusion.

I've also uh periodically checked in with the engineer to see if there's any updates.

And the latest one is a couple weeks ago and nothing's moved on it.

Um so uh the town issued a stop work order on April 15th, 2024, after the owner continued work on the project despite unresolved issues.

The unapproved framing, which had multiple deficiencies, has now been covered, preventing further inspections.

So the picture that I posted just shows that the exterior siding is now complete.

I've not been inside since the one time I've been on site.

I couldn't tell you what the inside looks like.

And just to clarify when we do inspections, there's an order of operations.

So generally, if it's a single family dwelling and I'm doing the inspections, we go for a framing inspection.

If it passes, we move on to the next one.

Usually insulation, vapor barrier, that sort of thing.

When you have an engineer involved as well.

Um I kind of go uh in tandem with them.

So they'll go and pass a framing inspection, then the town of Uroyal will send an inspector out to confirm any other code stuff.

Um generally they're looking for more of their design aspects, and and sometimes as the third set of eyes you'll find some other code stuff that needs to be also uh resolved.

Um that's so that's the reason why we ended uh ended up issuing the stop work order was to prevent um further work from being done and then having to be undone to expose, sorry, expose anything that might need to be fixed.

Um the single family dwelling is now nearly complete, but like I said, it lacks to sign field reviews from the engineer and the professional plan certification uh with which town of view royal.

So based on our our building bylaw, we rely um upon as support that the design and plans to which the letters of assurance relate comply with the building code and the other applicable enactments relating to safety per sections 10.5 and 14.1, and also see sections 10.1, 10.3, 11.2, and 14.7, 14.10, 18.5 of the building bylaw, and requires prior to the issuance of an occupancy permit for sections 10.1, 18.1, 18.5, and 18.4 of the building bylaw.

Um, an occupancy permit has not been issued and cannot be issued until Town of View royal receives all approved field reviews from the engineer of record, followed by a schedule C B, which is also the letter of assurance.

Um, at the beginning of a job, the engineer will come on to the job, he'll issue a schedule B, which means he's undertaking the job.

He does his field reviews as the job goes on.

He's given you a planned design.

And at the end of it, if everything is satisfactory on his end, he issues a schedule C B, which means everything was up to his standard.

It's kind of another bit of liability that the engineer will take on.

So additionally, um section 14.8 of the building build uh building bylaw and if an inspection is requested, sections 14.5 and 14.6 requires that various inspections be conducted and approval of aspects of work prior to concealing them, including framing.

Only after a final inspection is requested by the owners and all required documentation is submitted reviewed and approved by the by the building inspector can an occupancy certificate be granted.

So um in the reports that you guys all were handed there's just um a uh a timeline kind of from stemming from 2020 um as many records as I could find that just relate to this job and kind of show you where past uh building inspectors were at with their inspections and then where um viewpoint consulting, which is the engineer firm that took on this job, and so where they're at um and so just uh an analysis of section 57.

As the owner continue to build the single family dwelling without passing framing inspections, and the building appears to be completed on the outside.

However, staff are not certain if the owners are occupying the single family dwelling.

Given the town's repeated attempts to resolve issues at 12 Vickery Road with no cooperation from the owner, it is recommended that council direct staff to proceed with registration of a notice against title to the property under section 57 of the community charter.

This measure may assist in providing notice to any occupants of the single family dwelling and potential future owners of the illegal construction and bylaw violations associated with the property.

So for your information, um section 57 of the community charter permits council make a resolution to file notice on the property title.

If the building inspector, um, so I'll just read out quickly for you.

Um, 571.

A building inspector may recommend to council that it consider a resolution under subsection three.

If during the course of carrying out duties, the building inspector A observes a condition with respect to land or building or other structure that the inspector considers subpoint results from the contravention of or is in contravention of a a municipal bylaw, so as stated um our building bylaw right now, b a provincial building regulation, so the BC Building Code.

Uh, C, any other enactment that relates to the construction or safety of buildings or other structures, and subsection two that as a result of the condition, a building or other structure is unsafe or is unlikely to be usable for its expected purpose during its normal lifetime, or B discover something that was done with respect to a building or other structure, or the construction of a building or other structure that required a permit or an inspection under a bylaw.

Regulation or enactment referred into paragraph A, I, and uh two, the permit was not obtained or the inspection not satisfactorily completed.

Um so recommendation is going to be uh as I just said, hopefully, that you guys would pass uh the section 57 notice on title, and again, for reliability's sake, to kind of um let the public know that we're aware of it and we're taking steps to mitigate such a problem.

So, moving forward, uh, under remedial action in this report, um, a town of Urell staff report recommending that council initiate the remedial action process outlined in sections 72 through 80, as well as sections 1780 and 258 of the community charter will be forthcoming.

As noted, as noted above, there's some urgency to register the section 57 community charter notice on title, now in an effort to provide notice to occupants of the single family dwelling and future property owners about the illegal construction and bylaw violations associated with the property.

Um and so it's a bit time critical.

It is uh crucial for the town to file a file the notice on title as there is a building that is substantially completed without passing inspections and receiving final occupancy, and the building permit is now expired.

This action is important to undertake now to assist in providing notice to the occupants and to any future owner about the illegal construction and bylaw violations associated with the property.

So that's my little spiel.

Um, and I'm happy to take questions because I'm sure there's a few.

Yeah, and before um I lead with the question, I just wanted to note a comment that the I'm just reading off of the submission uh by the uh owners that um that they're saying they don't have a problem with having a registration uh notice entitled my property uh pursuant to section 57 as long as there are no restriction on me and my family family's ability to occupy the premises premises at our own risk uh no penalties and no remediation uh remedial actions taken in particular the remedial action process outlined in sections 1772 80 inclusive and uh 258 of the community charter, including additional property taxes.

So can you give us a sense of where we're standing right now?

So it looks like from your picture it's complete id.

Um and are uh the owners uh occupying uh the building now?

Um so I think last week I I posted an unsafe to occupy based on the fact we're not fully sure if they are.

Um we do know that they have a house two store uh two buildings up the road um that they were living in and building this one during it.

So I'm not really sure what the plan is on that.

Um couldn't couldn't guarantee you they're living there, but uh just with um the possibility that someone might, um it's my responsibility to alert the public that it's it's unpermitted.

And and uh just to shape council's um query, we're not here to solve this very long thing it's a request from staff to support uh section 57 on title that's it councilor brand you'd like to move the staff recommendation questions first we can we we can have a mover and a seconder and then go through secondary that we're gonna have to uh we got a seconder for council brown seconded uh seconded by council mackenzie she was just slow to the button uh so yeah uh let's then attain some questions.

So I certainly understand what the the owner would like, and i'm just wondering.

So if we find out that the owner is actually residing in there, and we or you don't feel that there's they're at risk.

You would you could potentially just ignore it.

But if you do think that there is potentially health issues, then you would move on to remedial action through the remedial action processes, or will you be going to the remedial action process anyway?

So in I guess in the next report, um, we're kind of jumping ahead a bit.

We'd kind of lay out uh a path to doing that.

Um, because obviously it'd be nice to just get the house an occupancy and have people move in.

Um we're not trying to ruin dreams here, and we're here to help people.

So um that that information would probably come in the next report just to clarify the steps that we'd be asking for um and I would just make note right now I know it looks and acts and talks like a house but technically it's not a house it's a structure um and there's there's no way for me to have if if I go I'll just I'll give you another example it might be easier to see if I go to a house and they've decided hey we got a second floor mezzanine we don't want to have a guardrail because we live here and we're used to it.

I have to look at it as if your grandmother moved in tomorrow.

Is she going to be safe in the house?

It's not about what they want at this time, it's for future generations.

So the code sets out minimum safety for life.

And uh right now we're not even past the framing stage of this structure.

So yeah, it's it's there would be a big possible liability on our hands.

Any other questions?

Councillor Rogers.

Yeah, uh thanks, Miss.

Um and I certainly understand the complexities of how long it's been going back.

And then if I under also understand uh the the situation, the owners had hired an engineer, and it was the hired engineer that was taking on the responsibilities on behalf of the town to ensure a compliant building.

Yeah, it so some of the some of the um parts in this design uh we could just use like uh beam spans right now might fall outside the building code.

So then you have to go get an engineer, and so the engineer comes in because they have the extra schooling.

So then they will have their liability, they will design.

And once that design is met, they can say, Yes, it's all good, carry on.

Um, but if you start going outside of that and making changes, well, uh oftentimes some guys might some they might not want to continue working with you or they might have an issue, and a lot of times they will make the effort to work with you.

Um I've worked with a few engineers that shouldn't have carried on, but you know, it's their livelihood and and they're proud of what they do, so they'll make the effort.

I I also appreciate that uh even though we have the engineer and and it's time for reviews that you go in and and double check with having another set of eyes, which and and I appreciate that.

Um my concern again is is the practicalities of after we uh you know if should council approve the fix section 57.

Um the way I read it, these people can't occupy that house.

We can do a 57, but there is no therefore we cannot provide an occupancy permit.

Nobody can be in that house, either they or the renter.

So their request that they've made in their letter cannot happen.

Yes, that's correct.

And that's that's the way it is, right?

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Um and if they do live in in this house, contrary to um uh and and somehow I I don't know, I seem to remember Section 57 is where people were still living in there in the and the particular maybe it was because it was a secondary suite, no one was living in the secondary suite.

Maybe that was it.

But I guess also my concern is that if there's no occup building, uh no occupancy, then if they are living in it and if something happens, will a fire department go in, knowing it's a section 57, no occupancy, will they go in and and deal with the uh the issue, be it uh an emergency or a fire?

Uh I can't speak to that, but I do know they go and buildings caught on fire all the time to save people, regardless.

I think uh that's why they sign up for the job.

Um I I I don't think there's anyone who could say don't go in there because there's no occupancy.

But to your previous comment, um, we've had ones in the past that it was a house with an occupancy and a change had been made.

So in that situation, the house is is already been granted occupancy.

We can just notify with the notice on title saying something has changed.

So if uh Joe and Diane come to buy it, they're gonna pull title and say, Oh, there's you know something's different there.

It wasn't approved.

So they they could maybe go for a lower price on the house, that sort of stuff.

Or worse cases, insurance sees that and they don't want to insure you.

No, Mike.

So yeah, that's 57 is is where someone if they sell the house and and someone else has a look at it and it's now where to me is the is the point that they you're gonna choose to live in the place and there becomes an insurance issue.

So we'll an insurance company look at section 57 and say, Well, we're not gonna insure you.

You're you have uh now and voided your any insurance policy that you may have bought, uh, but this section 57 tells us that uh we're not going to um entertain that uh claim.

Is that a possibility?

Yeah, but that yeah, for sure that's a possibility.

Um other ones, common ones right now are older houses that have poly B plumbing.

If you were to buy the house, um there might be a notice on the title for the mortgage company and they might say you've got two years to replace it, or they might say we want it replaced before we issue that, right?

So it's it's completely up to um who wants to provide the insurance or the mortgage or wherever they're going.

So or the more reasons they should have a lawyer.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

I'll go to Councillor Lemon and then Councillor Brown, please.

Yes, thank you.

Um, Mr.

Pattison, if the building permit has expired, is it past the point of no return for these people?

Is there can they can't can they fix this if they were to you know get the right resources, get the right people, get the right trades, whatever, in place, or is it too late?

I think uh staff's got a Leanne you had a comment.

Okay.

Um so uh through the mayor, uh uh thank you, Councillor Lemon, for that question.

And uh just to note that staff will be bringing back a report um to council on sort of the next steps.

Uh tonight, the the the issue at hand that council needs to make decisions on is a section 57.

Staff will come back with a more comprehensive report with some of these answers that quite to answer some of the questions that you have this evening on the second the remedial action piece of it all.

Appreciate that thank you.

Council Brown.

Yeah my question was about insurance too but Councilor Rogers already asked it so I'm ready to motivate if that's appropriate.

And I have one more comment uh question or comment?

I just wanted to compliment staff on a making a really difficult uh issue understandable.

So thank you.

Well I I appreciate the feedback.

I halfway through I kind of got lost too so it is it it's it's a this one in particular there I think I'm the fourth or fifth building inspector involved so I'm glad I'm glad you understood it.

Yeah thanks yeah it's uh section 57 we we have to pass that to get uh so we don't have we're not liable anymore that's that's step one whatever happens after we'll come and deal with one at a time so hopefully everybody supports it second or is there anything you want to say uh so all those in favor of staff no i think we we've been through this John uh yeah we've been through this so so let's go to to vote if you want to make a comment after that, that's that's okay.

But uh um we've had a chance to to uh ask questions.

Yeah, you've had uh we've all had the chance to ask questions.

Would you like to make a comment?

Okay, go ahead.

So um the and and I'm pleased to hear the staff are going to continue on with the solutions to this.

But you know, the the point that it does concern me that these individuals are not permitted to live in this house.

This is what they are um was the key concern of theirs.

And you know, I hope we move very quickly to try and find a a uh a reasonable solution so that they're not out in the street or whoever, an aging grandmother, whatever that needs shelter is not uh gonna be in dire situation.

So, you know, the human aspects of this 57 concerns me greatly.

All those in favor of stops motions.

Any other comments?

Once, twice, three times.

Any opposed?

Seeing none opposed, uh, motion carries.

And I will echo uh I think Councillor Rogers and probably all of our concerns is that um, you know, there seems to be a string of unfortunate incidents.

Somebody intentionally trying to uh get by, and I see the the um the uh owners are uh piecing this together largely themselves uh for for a build.

So yeah, anything that we can do uh for for a resolution, that would be I think in everybody's best interest, but I appreciate you looking out for the interest of the town and making sure that it's built right.

Thank you.

And I don't think we've got anything to receive, Sarah.

Correspondence.

Uh and for information, we've got uh bylaws.

And that is for the grinder pumps that was discussed last time.

I'll move final on our adoption on one one five five.

Second.

Um move seconded.

Any other questions or comments to staff?

We've been through this.

Councilor McKenzie, I think you're away when we discussed it all, but you got yourself caught up.

Okay.

And I don't think there is motivation required.

Um all those in favor for adoption for 1115.

Any opposed?

Seeing none opposed, motion carries.

Uh see no new business.

And it brings us to question period.

There's nobody left in here.

Carl, is there any comments or questions?

I guess questions uh for counsel from the forums.

Uh Mayor Tobias, we have no questions or comments.

Thanks, Carl.

I think this brings us down to our motions and notices of motion.

Uh I'll turn over A and B to you, Councillor Rogers.

Yes, thank you very much.

And thank you, Staff, for providing uh the notice of motion that was uh made back on November the 12th, or for the meeting of November the 12th.

Um moving that uh VO across BC transit to make substantial scheduling changes to route number 46, uh West Hills Dockyard.

Um uh as per the um transit 2021 local area service service improvement um uh transit improvements for View all and First Nations in Esquamold.

That's that's the motion.

Um let me I I will, if I may.

Um, you know, the the problem with um and the the solution that number 46 was was addressing was uh dockyard uh workers getting to the dockyard when the blue boat stopped running.

So that was the reason, and of course it it did a good job for uh those uh AM and PM peak hours uh from those that are in the western communities since 2021.

Um we had or sorry, since that time, which was well before 2021, um transit uh did a uh local um area plan uh where they were recommending the blink, the 95 blink, the uh number 40 bus, and improvements to the number 46.

And these improvements are exactly what uh what we're asking for today.

I think the biggest biggest thing, most significant change uh to this is not only our population um for View All and the First Nations, but the fact that um West Hills has now got a wonderful youth program, but those individuals living in Glantana and this and uh Long Island Highway uh cannot bus to this facility.

Uh when I phoned transit, they said, well, they can go downtown on the number 14 and then the catch the 95 back, which is an unacceptable solution.

And obviously walking and cycling at night is not uh safe for them.

So um I'm I look forward to uh um not only we uh uh move a motion to approve this or there be approval, but also that we um um reach out to our um transit representative for the west shore um lobby for their support as well as uh write to the uh um squam and song east first nations for their input as well i'll second that thanks uh councillor rogers and thank you council lemon the only concern i have is i think we need to speak for the town i feel very reluctant to speak for the two first nations and i don't want to represent them in a motion um that that's really covering for them and that would presuppose that we actually get a response back from them.

So I I think that if we raise something, it should be for the town of View royal uh I also think that instead of substantial scheduling changes, what BC Transit might do is might cut services.

We need to say we want increased in our language, we want to see an increased service level and and do we have timings, John, that we want to see more than others in the motion.

And then then I'd be very happy to support yes good good points.

And and an improvement of service I in um the 2021 local area service uh report, they do uh describe exactly what we're saying that the it would be um not just peak hours, it would be a frequent service on on weekdays, uh going to into the evenings, and it would also include weekend service.

So you know it it I don't know how much detail you wanted to put out, but improved services uh for um frequent service and on weekends as well.

And certainly this is for View Royal.

We can send correspondence through the First Nations and let them know we're doing this.

So it so do you want me to propose an amendment to your proposed motion?

If if the uh members are satisfied that we can um ensure the the right wording, I suppose the mayor we could write this letter to um uh DC Transit, you know, with those specifics.

You know, we want to improve the service and and and so forth but so are you is the amendment that the mayor write a letter to transit outlining the issues you've just mentioned yeah but that's not in the motion no but that would make an easier motion that would make an easier motion and and just take uh song he's in the squamalt nation off of it and maybe we'll C C them on it to encourage them well i'll I'll second the one you we just talked about.

We're leaving Sarah in the in the dust here so basically the the motion is that the the mayor right uh advocate would that be better?

Advocate.

Advocate with BC transit.

With BC transit.

To improve the service of Route 46.

To improve.

For frequent service?

I don't know, improve frequency and um uh weekends.

Frequency of service.

Service on number 46.

Yep.

So that's the amendment.

So now we're not gonna vote on your motion, we're gonna vote on the amendment.

Let's do the same thing.

Do I have a seconder for the amendment?

Seconded by counselor um uh Matson.

And the reason why this just makes it clearer for us to get it across and probably not hold us up to wait to hear back from the Songhees and the Squamalt Nation.

That way we're not speaking from them.

Uh so all those in favor of the amendment.

Any opposed to the amendment?

Okay, so that makes it clear.

So now we'll vote on Councillors Rogers' motion.

Um and and that will be with the amendment in it.

Uh we've got a mover and a seconder for it.

All those in favor of Councillor Rogers moment motion.

Looks like it's approved unanimously.

So uh I think that covers us off.

So I will uh endeavor to write a letter as well.

You said much uh the Machosen holds the seat on BC Transit.

Yeah, do they find that out okay.

So I'll find out.

Yeah, we've never had it yet.

Yep, we're chosen has it.

Uh so that brings us to item B.

Uh hazard falling rock safety concerns.

And I realize that there's a staff recommendation too.

So if you could read off your motion and then we'll get into the recommendation as well.

Yeah, again, thank you for having us on the agenda.

Um the the issue is um uh along um the island highway around the theatus interchange that um um we've had to uh uh place um barriers and and signages for hazard falling rock.

And um um maybe staff can hear and and obviously this is an issue because it's um it's now narrowed the width of the sidewalk.

Um the hazards still exists, and um so I would be uh looking to staff to uh give uh details as to how and when these uh improvements can be made to uh improve pedestrian safety and and the um active transportation um goals are are met.

So I I would move that the matter be referred to staff for uh for a report.

So that's the staff recommendation.

Yeah.

Second.

Any other uh discussion or questions, Councillor Brown?

I'm just uh sorry, I think the area you're talking about this area's already been there's a fence there that's been there for months and months and months and months.

I just wonder I I I I have asked staff about that previously because people ask me about it, why's that fencing there?

So I just wonder if any remediation has been done other than putting the fencing up to stop the rocks from coming down.

Yeah, staff report.

Yeah, yeah, that's fine.

That's just uh Ivan was that what you're gonna say, but I'll put it over to you.

Uh yeah, thank you, Mary Jabias.

Um all the information in in due time in that staff report.

It's uh if it was as easy enough as to to fix it in scale, it would have already.

But um we'll give you more information in the subsequent meeting.

Thank you, Ivan.

Uh Councilor Rogers?

Uh Councilor Lemon, any input?

Nope.

Uh okay.

All those in favor of referring to staff, uh Councilor Rogers motion.

Any opposed?

Seeing none opposed, motion carries unanimously.

Councilor Brown.

Renaming of Island Highway.

And this is just a um more of a suggestion.

I know we did talk about renaming the highway some meetings back.

And of course, now in the meantime, John Horgan's passed away.

And I I heard I've heard that the city of Langford is looking at renaming the university John Horgan University.

So that may suffice, but uh maybe uh at this point I could pull that and and maybe uh as a point of discussion further down the road, uh if everyone's fine with that.

Yeah, I think part of it was uh I I think he was uh I think Lankford is planning some things.

I would be supportive of this um counselor brown if we were going to do the whole run out to keep it consistent like you know the all all the way out if if that was an option but what's that all the way into town all the way into town could be even all the way to the legislature but uh i'm i'm thinking that for the short run it wasn't a thing and then we could probably ask for a grant from the province to cover our offset or cost maybe um but uh but i appreciate you know the the the intent here was to recognize john horrigan.

And I appreciate that and and perhaps if we give it the fullness of time, I think it'll it'll ask.

So you're going to uh pull this item off and reintroduce it at a later date.

That's correct.

Okay.

I think that uh suffices.

And I think that brings us down to a closed uh meeting resolution.

Uh Sarah, can I get you to read that out?

Thank you.

There's need to have a meeting closed to the public and persons other than the immediate members of council, officers, and employees of the town.

And those identified under section 91, subsection two of the community charter should be excluded on the basis of section 90, subsect uh subsection one C labor.

Thank you, sir.

And uh uh thank you.

We'll see you in a minute.

So can I get a a uh motion to terminate?

Uh moved by counselor uh Matson, second by counselor Rogers.

Uh everybody's in favor.

Um this meeting is closed or terminated and we'll move to the other one