Council Meeting

And I'll call the uh Town of View Royal Council meeting to order for Tuesday, June 18th, 2024.

And that we've read a territorial acknowledgement in the recent uh public hearing.

Uh can I get an approval of the agenda, please?

Councilor McKenzie, did you have an addition or deletion that you wanted to see or will you second?

Um no, I had a comment.

I was just wondering, since we have such a large contingent here, instead of them waiting for the correspondence, I don't know if we can bring it up so that they don't have to listen through the rest of the meeting.

We we can certainly do anything council wishes.

So if we want to adjust the agenda to move the uh the correspondence issues to the top, uh we can certainly do that.

Um supportive of that, Council Roger.

Um, I wonder you were should we if uh we could make it uh right after public participation, giving so those uh I guess well it still would be on the agenda, so yeah, okay.

That's great, thank you.

So so what I'd recommend we do is uh after our petitions and delegations, we have it just before the public participation period.

Uh and then uh we can go through that and uh I assume most of the folks want to talk about that this evening.

Um okay, uh I think we can do that.

Um Sarah's not yelling at me, so I think we're good to do that.

So with that amendment, uh, do we have a mover and a second?

Moved by Councillor McKenzie, seconded by Councilor Matson.

All those in favor.

Any opposed, seeing none opposed, motion carries.

Uh, can I get receipt and adoption of the minutes for the uh June 4th?

Adoption.

Second.

Moved by Councilor Rogers, seconded by Councilor Matson.

All those in favor.

Any opposed?

Seeing none.

Uh motion carries.

Um don't have much of a mayor's report tonight except to say that uh I've talked to some residents from Christie Point.

I think I understand uh the circumstances around it.

I also just want to make it clear that the town is very limited in what it can do, but it can advocate for uh for your cause.

As I understand it, this is a uh provincial matter with the residential tenancy board.

Um hopefully you've reached out to your member of Legislative Assembly, um uh Mitzi Dean, who has an office in View Royal as well.

Um, but Council is is uh has approved a number of apartment buildings, and we're eager to hear your perspective and and learn from your experience.

Um and I think with that it brings us down to petitions and delegations.

Uh Mary, can I invite you to um provide um your petition for uh uh urban Food Resilience and initiatives society, please.

Good evening, Mayor and Council.

Thanks for this opportunity to introduce you to the newest gig in town.

We're a nonprofit society, Urban Food Resilience Initiative Society.

My name is Mary Brooke, and I'm the executive lead for the group.

We just started in January and we're excited to be making the rounds of the different municipalities in the West Shore for starters to discuss about how municipalities can foster food resilience, which seems to be more than timely given the economic circumstances that most of us are living in right now.

Next slide.

So our group is about growing healthy food in urban spaces.

And so, you know, we all, if we have a yard, which not everybody does anymore, a lot of people who did like gardening would grow food.

But the goal of our organization, the main thrust of it is to advocate that people think about growing food regardless of what sort of housing they're in, and that it also be a process that can be available in commercial and industrial spaces as well.

I'll get to that in a minute.

So, of course, a key component would be education.

We've already got a lot of interest in workshops, courses, and events, and we do information booths about how to grow food.

We're not a gardening group per se.

I want to emphasize that.

We're trying to work at the municipal level to encourage foods, food being developed by people at their in their own homes.

The development of urban food garden community gardens is a part something that we contribute to as well.

Improvement of regional soils, that's a whole thing we could get into.

You know, there's all the talk about the ALR, and if there's land in a park that seems to be arable, people get excited about that.

But soil um regeneration and building fresh soil in areas that aren't being gardened right now is um shouldn't be an amazingly new idea.

Like the people put soil in their gardens all the time.

So seeing that as um sort of more embracing that across urban areas.

Um we're speaking to municipalities about that when you have any building permit or development permit that there needs to be um a line item that that requires food growing capacity in in whatever's being built.

So whether if for single family that's pretty straightforward, townhomes they still have small yards.

When it comes to condos and apartments, that might mean ensuring that the um the buildings have food growing capacity on balconies, like don't just have a bare balcony, but have infrastructure for planting and irrigation that would be safe for the building and be ready and able for people to start growing.

And emergency preparedness, and that's in a minute we'll get into the bigger project.

Next slide.

So as I mentioned, that we're taking a regional lens and facilitating food growing by by households.

And in asking that councils that you ensure that all development permits specify suitable requirements for food growing infrastructure.

So residential, that's straightforward as we've covered.

Industrial, so if a commercial building goes up, there could be vertical gardening indoors.

This doesn't have to be in ground.

And then also institutional schools and hospitals.

Again, a lot of there's been transition in the region to be using local foods in school kitchens, like at Royal Bay High School, they use local food.

But to make sure that every new building that is constructed has that capacity as an expectation from the municipality.

Next slide.

Yeah.

Okay, so our group launched in January 24 of this year.

We've been doing various presentations and booths and workshops, gathering data already.

What do people grow?

And people are quite excited to provide this.

Oh, I grow broccoli and carrots and beans and so on.

And we're going to develop a database to see what does grow well in this area or what people like to grow.

Our board is presently three people myself, Rob Martin, and Dean Ross.

And we're keeping our activity as a board at a really high business level, making these decisions about what sort of projects and grants to apply for and so on, and then engage our volunteers and supporters.

And in just six months, we've gathered gathered 75 people now on our list of people who are ready and waiting to be assigned something to do.

We've received two municipal grants so far.

I want to emphasize we're not asking for anything, there's no financial ask tonight.

We've received a grant from the city of Langford, a grant from the District of Souk for two different types of things.

And our only ask tonight will be that you respond back to us with the feasibility for the project that we're now going to get into.

And I just wanted to mention also collaboration, sorry for the typo there, that we're we see our organization fitting in with existing networks already.

So there are already community gardens, food, food distribution networks, local farmers, and suppliers.

And by suppliers, I mean more the technical, like solar, for example, for make for supplying energy.

Okay, moving along.

Next slide.

So the municipal um food storage idea that we're bringing forward tonight is that, and we've looked to the royal because of the way you guys are organized as a municipality, as maybe trying this out first, to have emergency storage food storage freezers in a building that would be a nondescript building.

And you know, similar to how BC Hydro will have a local generating transformer station, and it looks like a house from the outside.

And in there would be a freezer storage of food for real emergencies, not for like the food banks take care of it when people need food, but this would be in the case of earthquake or pandemic, something where the supply chains are completely collapsed.

So this would come, and then because this would be a significant financial investment, of course, the suggestion is that there be a learning center or workshop center attached to this, like the front of the building, and the that could be like a rec center revenue generator for the municipality.

So you'd have your one-time capital cost, and then it would be part of your municipal facilities budget.

And it just so happens today, the provincial government announced something called drift, D R I F.

That's the disaster resilience and innovation funding.

And the deadline is September 15th for local governments to apply for funding for something precisely like this.

Next slide.

So if you were to decide to go ahead with that, of course, as you well know, phase one would be land design and construction.

So again, when I'm at we're looking for feedback from your municipality as to would you have land for this, would you have capacity to develop a design?

There would be then the next step would be collaboration with the food sector to fill the freezer.

That could be probably grocery stores working with them, local farmers, and establish a food rotation strategy.

And so this is where our group could be contributing as a consulting service to, you know, you'd put out a expression of interest or RFP for that and get people to organize, you know, how to take care of what's in the freezer.

And then operate a front-end household resilience activity center, as I mentioned.

So, because obviously the use of the freezer is not going to be that often.

So you want to make use of your building that you've that you've built.

Next slide, please.

So this uh we've got a picture of an earthquake there.

Um that's the big emergency we're talking about.

Um you've probably heard in the news that the big one is like we're 384 years or something since the last one, 324.

Um, and um so nobody likes to be frightened about these things, but as you well know, your emergency response um community is very active in well all the municipalities in the region.

Um so we would like to fit in with that and work with the first responders um that there be an execution strategy so you know decide when this would be used and then how it would be used and then be responsible to organize the event team that would um be ready if if anything needed to happen so um looking forward to your questions and thank you for hearing our idea thank you mary appreciate it thanks for taking the time out of your evening to come and address council on uh your food initiative uh council Mackenzie please thank you for your presentation so I am aware that we already have a earthquake food storage um kind of container up in in Eagle View, at least.

I don't know if staff or counselors know more about it.

I'm not sure whether it's refrigerated, but I was wondering to what extent is the refrigeration kind of the the required requirement.

Okay.

Well, we did speak to one solar energy provider who you'd probably want to speak to a few that could provide um information.

Solar panels.

That's why I had the picture of the building with the solar panels to keep your energy costs fairly low and then have a generator in the building that would be used when the the electricity isn't being fed into the system by BC Hydro.

Sorry, just to uh expand.

Uh but is there a need if it's like uh non-perishable goods, or then it might not need that refrigeration okay well the idea is that these are perishable the these are um stemming off from we're growing natural food it's mostly going to be vegetables um and fruit counselor Matson yeah just for simply for space and for cost wouldn't dehydrated foods be much easier to store and less costly you wouldn't have to recycle them etc and anyways it just seems like a better option than having huge freezers that you have to keep rotating the food in the I think that would be a community preference.

You know, do you want to rehydrate food?

Plus in a serious emergency water for rehydration might be an issue.

So I think this this is going hand in hand with the growing of of food and but you know I have point taken.

Counselor Lowen please.

Thank you.

Mary you you don't see this as a strictly a municipal um undertaking you are your you and your colleagues are prepared to work with groups of community people?

Definitely the reason we're going to the municipalities is because the the these pro these buildings and properties would be municipal assets.

And so we're starting with that but um definitely, you know, I've even mentioned like the provincial grants.

I mean, we're it's this is a a provincial, well, this is a across the country issue, really.

And uh one of our longer term projects actually is asking, and we've already talked to the both the provincial and federal government about having a food tax food growing credit.

So if somebody can prove that they're industrious about growing food on their property, there would be some sort of you know small tax credit.

It's an incentive.

So if a large group of area residents, like those at Christie Point, wanted to establish perhaps a community garden or get some instruction on how to you know put their patios or their or their their decks or whatever to work, you could help.

Yeah, we we would facilitate and advocate for that.

Um I would also mention we do have the grant we got from the district of Suk is for a neighborhood pod people we'll pick a couple of streets at a time for people to organize that they can all use their collective lands base and skills to grow food.

And so um that would and then that would be um once we have that pilot project done that would be portable to any number of communities.

Food that's developed from those sorts of enterprises um there might be some left over to put in the freezer but I mean it's mostly about the psychological resilience as well.

That's why we're talking about the we're we're using the word resilience quite specifically that people feel good about the security of having something to eat.

You know, might only be for a couple of days but we'll get people through the worst of an emergency.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mary.

Councilor Rogers, please.

Yeah thank you.

Uh certainly innovative ideas have um do you know of any places um in BC or throughout Canada that have uh already started uh this kind of initiative no as you well put this is innovative and um this actually stems from my interest in nutrition originally I have a Bachelor of Science in nutrition which had a very strong community education component and this was long ago, but we were already talking about how does a family that's on a tight budget uh do well.

And and I think that the time has come.

I think there's been no resistance to this, the ideas of what we're talking about.

And I think that's because of the times we're living in with economic um challenges to every household.

If I may another question.

I'm part of the Regional Water Supply Commission and the initiative in the last three years to build blue hydrants, install blue hydrants throughout the region.

So with the drop kits and and the mobility uh hardware, if you like, infrastructure, so that uh when there is an earthquake, um people can go to places like uh Canadian Tyre and hook into the blue hydrant, uh drop kits would be available, and the distribution of water would be available to residents.

So the CRD's already taken that initiative on one side that is an essential water, um, it is also doing a great deal of work in terms of food resiliency and food security.

So I I would encourage you to approach uh the CRD on the emergency services.

Okay.

That was just a 911 call.

Um at any rate, um, I strongly suggest you go to the CRD, and I I think it's a worthwhile pitch to make.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay.

So again, our ask is that you guys maybe consider it as a municipality and um have a staff report or something as the feasibility of having one of these centers.

Thank you again, Mary.

Thanks.

So as uh as promised, we'll um push the correspondence up next before the public participation and uh 10-1 was for action and it was uh two emails dated uh May 30th and June 18th from Jay Ritchie and I Leach.

Did anybody want to uh bring them up or receive and then Councilor Mats?

And seconded by uh Councilor McKenzie.

All those in favor.

Um, so that brings us to the public participation period.

So if you uh approach the mic, activate it so we can hear.

If we could get a bit of a lineup to hear uh your concerns, you have five minutes uh to speak on the issue, and um and just start with your name and where you live.

Hi, uh I'm Conan.

Uh I have the privilege of representing the residents of Christie Point today.

I'm sure if you're familiar, they're a 160 plus unit complex here in View Royal, built in the 60s-ish.

What we're here for today is there is a the current landlord has applied to impose a fairly significant rent increase of 150 plus dollars a month to select buildings for the repair of the roof.

This is a new legislation called the ARIC additional rent increase for capital expenditures.

Which, I mean, to be honest, it's uh it's a tough pill to swallow for people who rent and are expected to pay for a roof that they'll never own.

If this goes through, it's likely that every single major repair that any building complex in the city, in the region, in the province, is gonna get passed on to the landlords.

This increase is in addition to the regular annual rent increases, in addition to vacancy increases.

And as we all know, rents are already prohibitively expensive in the region.

If you were to rent a two bedroom suite at Christie Point today, the vacant one is $2,450 a month.

A lot of them don't have a bathroom fan.

Or a hood fan in the kitchen, or a lot of things.

Now, we do absolutely understand this is a provincial issue.

What isn't a provincial issue is who View Royal decides to do business with.

Community that is taking advantage of vulnerable residents.

A lot of people don't have the opportunity, don't have the means to move to live anywhere else.

They're, and they don't want to.

People shouldn't have to move just because their landlord wants them to pay for absolutely everything.

So what we're looking for is any sort of support.

We are we have 150 signatures here from residents against this rent increase.

We're looking to fight the actual legislation itself because it doesn't make sense.

The other part of it is it's imposed to pay for a capital expenditure, but it doesn't end.

The rent increase stays on after the expenditure is paid off.

So it just you just get the privilege of paying more rent for something you already paid for.

Can I ask a question?

Um, have you uh sought legal counsel?

Uh we have spoken to the Tenant Resource Advisory Committee, as well as uh I know some residents have spoken to Together Against Poverty Society seeking legal counsel.

As we said before, Christie Point residents, a lot of them are fixed income seniors, small families, single parents, don't have the means to afford a lawyer, so we have to find other ways.

But yeah, it some of the advocacy societies have been forthcoming and offering help so how can we help you knowing that we don't um we don't make the legislation uh and we can we honestly can't regulate uh how that um what businesses use that legislation within the town because that's so how can how can council help you out if we in the best case scenario what can we do council can advocate for us um with the provincial legislation with the support of council, if we take a motion to our MLAs and the housing minister and the residential tenancy branch with the backing of council supporting that this legislation unfairly targets tenants, it may help us have a little backing.

And uh are you aware of this legislation for your networks being utilized anywhere else in Victoria?

Uh not in Victoria that I know of.

I'm sure there are oh, there we go.

Yep.

Yeah.

Pacific Village.

Okay.

Who's next?

Your time is up.

But thank you for for questions.

So another thing I would like to add.

So my name is Matthew Arnold.

I'm a resident at uh Christie Point in Willow.

Moved, thank you.

Uh moved there last summer.

Um another thing I would like uh to make the council aware to fight on our advocate is um at least in our building, we have 15 units.

One person is apparently moving out.

So instead of dividing that cost by 15 units, they are effectively billing only the 14 units.

And when you are an owner of a property and a unit is not rented out, that burden falls on the owner of the property, not the remaining tenants.

And that's all I would like to add.

Thank you.

And when I moved in, I cannot recall the name of the real estate investment team that owned the property at the time, but they were nearly begging us to move in, proming promising us.

No, it was after boardwalk and before RealStar.

No.

Okay.

Here's, here's, here's, there we are.

Um Lynn Cheryl, I think her name were.

At any rate, we were uh nearly, I don't want to say begged, but we were basically warned that we would likely not be living there within a year.

We were told that our moving expenses would be covered, and that our uh transfer of any of our services would be uh covered, and that right, we were really taking our own risk to move into this building because the intention was to sell and redensify.

And uh it was sold, purchased by RealStar.

I believe, sorry, no, no, it was RealStar.

I believe her name was Heather Wolf Gray or Gray Wolf that stood in this room a few years ago with all their very specific and beautifully presented drone coverage and very detailed how gorgeous these units were.

While they tripled or quadrupled the density, they did not take into consideration any of the issues of um buses and safety and accessibility to but um real star certainly knew what they purchased, they were very convinced, um as as was Boardwalk when I moved in 2017, that this was a done deal.

It's a building that was built in 1963 and it is at the end of its life.

They did not uh and then quickly sold to kill them.

I will say I sold real estate in the early 2000s, and at that time it was in Alberta, not in bc um but i got a real lesson in um what they call reserve funds and reserve fund studies and while that may be very specific to a strata and an owner occupied building um i will suggest that a real estate investment company when they come in uh they know what they're buying they certainly have had uh uh assessment what's the word i'm looking for where they have looked at the life of the roof.

They have looked at the life of the paint.

They have looked at the life of a boiler.

They have looked at the life of a sewer.

And all of that was failing back in 2017.

How on earth can us as tenants be responsible to pay for their investment?

My husband and I have had a chat.

If that's put in a kilom investment and uh part of the uh ownership because what they're asking for, in my opinion, is a co-op ownership.

And uh I'm offended.

I'm offended and I'm sorry.

I pushed the button.

Thank you.

I want to speak as a tenant of 13 plus years at Christie Point.

There are people here who have, and we know of people who have lived for 35 years or more at Christie Point.

We consider this our home, and it was where we intended to spend the rest of our lives, hopefully.

Our concern is that there is no evidence that Killum, or even Real Star was carrying out routine annual maintenance of roofs and other parts of the system.

To my knowledge, we have flat roofs, and so whether it was shells or there are a lot of big old trees on the property, so there was all kinds of branches and everything landing on the top.

Those were not cleaned, the drain pipes weren't cleaned out, they were plugged with cones and stuff.

They've never been cleaned out.

So the water backs up onto the roof.

And my comment is if you don't look after your own property that you own and hopefully want to make a profit from, why is it right for you to go to the people that help you make a living to pay for something that you did not look after?

That's my concern um I've been there for over 20 years now very happily um and I did um own houses before I came out west and I just want to double check that when you buy a house in BC you are supposed to do due diligence is that correct so due diligence was then never done or he would have been they would have been told that nothing had been done to nothing big has ever been done uh since I have been there and um the other thing is that they asked us to they've asked for the us to pay for the road and um sort of an interesting situation because um it was a dreadful job a dreadful job and I remember asking the rental manager when it's the potholes came back up within a year uh could he not call back whoever did it you know and say you didn't do a good job and um no no we couldn't call these people but presumably because they were, of course, the cheapest guy uh and so they won't do anything.

So we've been asked to pay for the road and for the entry into um Hemlock and in in Hemlock.

So I'm sort of supposing now as we go along, when we've paid for the road, can we put a toll road on both sides of Hemlock so that people are not going over roads that we've paid for?

And that would include Prime, Canada Mail, whatever.

I'm just supposing.

But the residents, oh obviously the residents, yeah, because only certain people have been asked to pay for this total thing.

And I guess in a way that maybe you can't help us, that perhaps you could offer a little guidance and thank you for listening.

Thank you.

Hi, my name's Alison White, and I also live on Christie Point.

What I do have to bring up to you is relevant to something to do with you because you brought in the tenant assistance program.

Fantastic for rezoning future ones.

We're rezoned when they've nickel and dimed us all out of Christie Point, what happens to us?

So I've actually emailed twice and had no response from staff regarding that question.

So I would like um some answers to that in the future, please.

So what just to be clear, your question is what happens now that it's not developed, right?

And it was rezoned to be a bigger thing.

Well, the rezoning sticks to it.

It was the increase in density.

What happens with that?

No, I understand it sticks, but what I'm saying is when somebody chooses to redevelop it, now it's rezoned and can have greater density, the tenant assistance program doesn't apply to us because it's already happened.

Oh, I I see what you're saying.

So that yeah, the the the it wouldn't apply to you in that because they're it came in after the rezone.

Correct.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So what security do we have as tenants once they've nickeled and dimed us out completely?

The p some people that can't afford to stay through these additional rent increases, and then everybody else that's left when they decide, oh, we're gonna knock down these buildings because they're definitely we can't repair them anymore, and we can't make you pay for them anymore.

So we're gonna redevelop it.

You've got no tenant assistance program to help you because it's not in place.

It came in after.

Uh I think uh there's some clarity on that and would go from when it uh the it's actually approved.

So it's gone through rezoning, but yeah, I think it really kicks in for construction.

Leanne, can you help me out on that one?

Uh through um Mayor Tabais.

And actually, can I cut your name first?

Because I want to go back to you mentioned you emailed the town.

Yeah, I emailed twice.

You have to Alison White.

Okay.

I'm just gonna write your name down just to s go back to see if I could yeah, track down that email and and send a formal response to you.

Um, but um I'll provide a verbal response right now as well.

So at the time of rezoning of Christie Point, um, there was a covenant that was registered on title that secured tenant assistance.

And that uh was done when the the land was rezoned several years ago.

So it kicks in when uh the property owner applies for a building permit.

So they will have to demonstrate that they have provided tenant assistance to the tenants that have been affected by the um the demolition and would have to be relocated.

So that has been secured in a covenant.

Thank you.

That's the answer that I was looking for because I was scared if they don't that didn't exist, what was going to happen next.

So I appreciate you putting that in place.

Thank you.

And and since that time as well, council did pass a policy to provide a similar uh reassurance for tenants being uh displaced because of uh redevelopment.

Um there are others that would like to address council.

There's no limit.

You can all talk.

Go ahead, sir.

Thank you, Mayor.

Thank you, counselors, for giving us the time of day and evening.

Um there was a very specific idea that I that came to my mind in terms of how you could advocate for for the tenants, and it has to do with one of the regulations that the uh residential tenancy branch is having to enforce or administer.

And that regulation requires that whatever capital expenditures have been totaled up would be amortized over a period of 10 years.

And so this roof, which represents 80 per 88% of the of the uh the uh expenditures of the capital expenditures, uh the uh roadway work, the paving work represents 12 percent.

Um and and so this is specifically with uh the building I'm residing in, which I've been residing in for over 12 years, the uh address being 2951 Craigowan.

Uh in that building, um the roofing uh hasn't been done in 62 or whatever years since the building was was erected.

There's just been a little bit of patchwork done over the years.

I've personally requested uh that some problems be addressed in terms of the roofing, and nothing was ever actually done about it.

And uh I have some emails and so forth to back that up.

Um in any case, uh a roof that has served the building for 60 years is now going to be the cost of repairing it is being amortized over 10 years.

And I believe that's highly in unfair to put that burden of that cost on the uh the small number of tenants occupying this building.

So I would like to suggest that you could advocate for us in seeking to change that regulation to allow us, for example, to amortize it over, say 50 years, which would be more realistic in terms of how long that this recent roofing repair job is actually going to serve the building that being the case we'd be paying the the the request would not be to raise the rent for 150 dollars a month but a fraction of that amount and that would be uh certainly one consideration that um I think you uh your your input would be uh beneficial thank you thank you for that I should reiterate that I really appreciate your giving us an audience with the Royal Town Council.

The absurdity of a rental contract resulting in capital cost contributions is it's it's ludicrous.

If I rented a car and you know drove it, returned it in the condition I I rented it in, and then got a bill for the tires that it had two years before, that would be insane.

This is a 60-year-old building that the current tenants are being asked to pay the deferred maintenance costs.

This is this is ridiculous.

It doesn't matter that the BCNDP passed a law that says this is acceptable.

This is an end around.

This law that allows Christie Point and other real estate investment trusts to essentially renovict their tenants.

It's an end around.

So my beautiful wife spoke earlier.

We signed on uh seven years ago.

And so our rent, if we moved out tomorrow, the rent for the place we're in would increase by $1,300 a month.

There is no incentive with no renovations, no maintenance, no nothing.

So I know a lot of the people that are in the buildings that are affected by this.

I'm not in an affected building, but I feel passionately that a rental agreement, you rent a house, you rent a property, you rent it because you don't want to take on the maintenance costs.

That is the entire if if there is an advantage to being a renter, it's if if if if there is one advantage to being a renter, it's that you don't own a bolt inner, right and you know the dishwasher breaks that's your landlord's cost so it's just an absurdity right um if you bought a plane ticket you you know you're you're getting a service that's what renting is it's a service it's it's you know and you agree to occupy your seat and when the time comes leave your seat the airline doesn't send you a bill two years later because the plane needed maintenance.

That's not how it works so um that's that's more or less my point is like this this like and so I think the people here from Christie Point would like for the council from View Royal to say to the morons in the legislature, this is impossibly stupid.

And this is yet another turn of the screw.

It is it's it's obscene, and it and it just can't continue.

I think that you people I I I genuinely feel that you people are listening to us.

We're registering with you.

This is this is the thin edge of the wedge.

And if these real estate investment trusts are allowed to defer costs and pass them down and do this passive rent eviction, a lot of these people that I've met have had tears in their eyes telling me that their rent going up by $150 a month to repair a roof that they didn't live under for 40 years of its existence.

This is a deal breaker for them.

Like this is really a deal breaker.

When we moved into Christie Point, it was they the real star was deliberately suppressing the rents because they wanted to push through the rezoning.

They're saying, Oh, we can't get market rates for this place.

And it was an utter falsehood, and it served their narrative.

This I think I think you counselors can advocate for the people of View Royal and really look like stars.

If you go to bat for us against the provincial government on this, on this issue, this is nonsensical.

It really is.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Hello, Council.

My name is Annika Fairholm.

I am another renter at Christie Point, who would have guessed.

And I will be, I will have been living there for five years this summer.

I want to echo a lot of the points that my other speakers have mentioned today in, but by bringing my perspective on the uh provincial legislature as in specific, in the fact that rental uh the cap on how much rent could be raised each year was an intentional step to protect the tenant and address the rising cost of living in major cities such as Victoria, which um, if I'm not wrong, is the third most expensive city to live in in Canada at this point.

And um the uh ability for the expect the expectation for um the landlords, as we have established, is to maintain the property in which they have ownership.

And as we have mentioned, the uh the tenancy is a rental, you have you're not gaining benefits from the increased property values.

You are um as soon as you move out, they can increase the rent of a unit to market value once again, regardless of the rent cap.

Um, and the ability for them to pass on the cost of repairs, which they are already expected to be providing just as a basic insurance to the tenant.

It is expected that the maintenance of the property will be maintained, that this will be a suitable place of living.

And in order to pass on those expenditures to the tenant, is as has been mentioned, a circumnavigation circumnavigation of that rental cost.

I don't know if there is any limit to the amount of uh cost that can be implemented in this go around, but it effects effectively negates the benefits that we tenants gain from the cap on uh on rent every year.

And I just want to point out that um, yeah, as has been mentioned, many of the tenants within Christie Point are seniors on a fixed income, are young families with children.

Uh, myself, I am a university student already dealing with over $20,000 of student debt.

Um, and as soon as I get a job, I'll finally be able to have a living wage in Victoria.

And so I would like to urge the council not necessarily to oppose the uh the provincial legislature as a whole, but just to address the blatant inequalities and the lack of insurance that we as tenants have in securing our future within uh the province as a whole, or at least within the Greater Victoria area.

Thank you.

I wanted to thank the council for the opportunity to speak here.

It's really important for us to be heard on this topic.

It's fantastic that you may be willing to advocate for us.

I was here in 2017 when Realstar was hoping to redevelop the property.

It would be impossible for us to stay if we were not able to persist on the lower rent that we've been grandfathered in on.

And there are specific provisions in the covenant for long term residence.

This concerns me because it feels like we might not be able to access those provisions and might be renovicted in a different way than is relevant to the covenant before they decide to properly redevelop the property.

Thank you.

And that's why council moved I guess it was almost a year ago now to uh try to push uh for uh at least a a council policy that we would um uh and we can afford it to you if you would like to leave us your email and and you could distribute uh but it's probably similar to the package uh that was initially proposed and that would uh allow uh funds to compensate based on the length of time that you've lived in the residence uh relocation services if possible um but it's hard right I get it I I started out here as a young sailor making uh 14,000 a year the below the poverty line uh and it it seemed like it was yesterday, but it was 30 years ago now.

Um and and you know, I survived my first little bit by having older places to to rent like you guys are in now.

Now I will say this much, Christie Point is probably the most beautiful part of Uroil.

Um it it uh if somebody was to ask me why it hasn't been developed, I think Council Rogers brought to my attention the uh sea level rise predictions over the next 50 years.

Christie Point is gonna be three islands essentially in 50 years.

Uh so it it's gonna be, you know, difficult, and that's probably one of the things weighing on a large bit of investment.

Um so I I think council has heard you tonight.

I think all of us are are feeling a little helpless ourselves for two reasons.

One is uh the the the power to make these decisions is not our are at our level yet it's affecting directly the residents that we uh that that that vote for us that participate in these uh elections um uh so I I think that that's where my concern is now we'll what will happen now after we've heard from you all is we'll go away and likely talk about this under new business um and whether we we will advocate for you um I I'm pretty sure that that's going to be supportive um and and uh it would determine the level of that.

Um the other thing we can also do is is the the level of advocacy that we can do not only to the legislation uh or to the to the legislature here in BC, we can also use venues through um through the federal uh union of municipalities as well as the uh BC Union of Miss Municipalities uh to exercise that.

I would strongly encourage that you um speak to the MLA.

Ironically, this is an election year.

It's surprising what happens during election years, especially this close to them.

Um so I I would I would uh very much encourage you to do that.

The other thing I would encourage you to do, if you haven't thought about it already, is uh it's probably a story that would have great media interest.

Right, right?

And and uh a number of perspectives.

Uh during the day I have a different job uh and and I work for the provincial government on environmental assessments.

And one of the hardest things to do is when you're a decision maker and preparing issues for decision makers is to find out what that thing really impacts you as people, as humans.

Like uh, like what does that proposal do?

So thank you tonight for doing an absolutely brilliant job of helping us understand because I think it is.

Thank you, counselors, for your time.

My name's Jeff White.

I'm also another Christie Point resident.

Um, I just want to point out that your advocacy will go a lot farther than the word of one of us when it comes to the provincial level.

So it would be very appreciated and thank you if we could have that.

Councilor Rogers.

So uh we're gonna be adding um uh the Christie Point matter on to new business uh for a motion.

Okay.

Thanks, folks.

You can stick around for an exciting night of bylaws if you want to, but if you got better things to do, then we understand.

Oh, five-minute break.

Council, can I get a motion for a five-minute uh bio break?

Some of moved by counselor rogers, second by counselor every in favor by everybody.

So I think where we left off council was the public participation.

And uh on the topic of Christie Point, we had many uh representations.

So I think that brings us to eight, which is bylaws, and we have three of them in front of us.

Uh staff, did you want to introduce these?

These are at I think first.

Yeah.

Oh through the mayor.

Um, 2014 amendment bylaw number 1128, 2023 for the properties at 339, 341, and 345 Island Highway is on for final adoption.

Move adoption.

Mover and uh seconder uh any questions for staff or comments seeing how it's uh been dealt with.

I would think it would be rare.

Motivation.

Indeed, uh, we've um we've uh and it's this is this simply a uh uh change in the zoning to um uh mixed residential, so in in support of that.

Seems like a long time coming, but thank goodness we're there.

Councilor Brown?

Council McKenzie, you had a comment or question?

Oh just to clarify, were were we moving 8A through C?

Or were we doing that?

Uh just one at a time, seeing how they're uh I I didn't think they'd get passed, so I wouldn't I I didn't move them.

So we're just talking about uh Alpha, which was the um zoning bylaw with respect.

Now you'll see this same uh property, I believe, come up under the variant section later on in the agenda, but we're just dealing with this one as was passed before.

Um any other comments or questions?

Uh all those in favor uh to amend the zoning bylaw with respect to 339, 341, and 345 Island Highway.

All those in favor.

Uh all those opposed.

Uh noted that councillor Matson and Mayor Tobias opposed.

Uh motion carries.

Um that brings us down to zoning bylaw 900.

Land.

By law, uh a bylaw, pardon me, I'll start that again.

Uh zoning bylaw number 900, 2014, amendment bylaw number 1135, 2024 is to introduce the small-scale multi-unit housing zoning regulations and it's on for final adoption.

This is to meet Bill 44 housing legislation.

Thank you, Lynn.

Do I have a move or move adoption?

Second or move by Councillor Lemon and seconded by Councilor Mattson.

Um motivations.

We have to do this and we have a deadline.

And um if we and if we uh don't pass this tonight, um we'll be further up on the province's naughty list.

Always concerned about Tucla and Elephants, Councilor Lemon.

Uh Councillor Mattson.

Yeah, I I agree with a lot that that gentleman said this evening.

But as my colleague said, we have to do this.

And uh I think we did a good job at mitigating the types of things that he'd mentioned.

And so as unhappy as I am about having this forced upon us, I think where we ended up was as best we can given the situation.

So I will be supporting.

Thank you.

Further comments?

Council McKenzie.

I'll be voting in opposition to this change purely because of the maximum floor area for a site standard and the fact that uh regardless of the lot size, um I wasn't going to repeat all my arguments, but I feel like it's it would be useful for people listening in, maybe for the first time.

Um so I I just don't think that this is necessary first of all to set a floor space um floor area maximum because we have many other mechanisms to ensure that new buildings do not negatively impact our neighbors and and the trees.

So first it's unnecessarily inflexible.

But there's also I believe unintended consequences it's going to discourage the building of houses that are long term homes.

If we have a floor area that is sparse, no one is going to want to build homes that have larger rooms to be accessible for wheelchair users.

And families are going to have to move out if they want to take up any outdoor activities, because we've said garage space is including that.

So where are people going to store their snowboards, paddleboards, bikes?

I also anticipate that it will contribute visually to greater impact and density, contrary to the intention.

And this is because it doesn't make sense for a developer to purchase the largest lot in a site standard package when they're restricted to a build the same floor area as they would in the smallest lot in that site standard package.

So all the smaller lots will be where these SMUS, these smaller uh homes are built.

And therefore, where you already have density and less green space, there's going to be even less by uh implementing this floor floor area maximum.

Thank you, Councillor Mackenzie.

Councilor Brown.

Yeah, I like the idea.

It gives people more of an opportunity to for entry-level housing.

Um, you know, particularly older people like my friends are downsizing.

I think it's going to provide some opportunities.

I don't I can't see hundreds and hundreds of applications for these types of building.

I think I can see some of them.

I know some that are coming to council soon would be very would fit quite nicely.

I won't mention the properties themselves, but um I think it's a good a good start.

Councilor Brown, anything else?

Uh so we got a mover and a seconder on the floor.

Uh all those in favor of zoning bylaw 900 2014.

Any opposed?

Noting councillor McKenzie is opposed.

Motion carries.

Uh official community plan bylaw 811, Leanne.

Or actually, it's uh 1139.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Thank you, Mayor Tobias.

That's correct.

Um, official community plan amendment bylaw number 1139.

This is the amendment by the bylaw that is dealing with the amendments to the development permit areas for small-scale multi-unit housing by introducing them into the mixed residential development permit area, as well as introducing a new development permit area intensive residential garden suite.

This bylaw is on for third reading and adoption.

Third and adoption.

Moved uh by councillor Mutz and seconded by seconded by Councilor Brown.

Um motivation.

We've talked about this forever.

Staff did a great job in terms of this document and um by having a development permit area gives us an opportunity to get staff an opportunity, depending on how we do it, to ensure that the form and character are are appropriate with the neighborhood.

Thank you, Councilor Brad.

Well written.

I support it 100%.

Thank you.

Uh comments, Councillor Rogers.

Yes, I certainly appreciate the quality control uh aspects of uh this bylaw.

Um as we were discussing um the question um from the public hearing, um my concern is we're um homeowners will have uh the ability to have a garden suite, a secondary suite, and rent a house.

So we will have some interesting challenges, I think, with respect to bylaw, enforcement, noise and um uh uh unkept residences and premises and so forth, those sort of challenges, uh parking as well.

Um so it's um we'll I'm voting in in support, but with caution, and I hope that um uh we will be doing due diligence to ensure the the carriage to quality and and respect um of uh assessed property owners in in the community.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I d just one comment.

Will will this have uh second-order effects on the neighborhood?

It will.

In my neighborhood, there is one household that uh has uh two kids, adult kids living at home, and they've got a suite, and it displaces seven vehicles to the road every day.

And uh every house with a suite does the same.

And and the driveways full too, right?

So will this have impacts on our communities and parking and walkability and all those?

There is absolutely no question in my mind.

However, uh I I am very much in favor of opportunities book garden suites in uh areas, particularly in situations where you've got aging folks that want to want to take care of their house and want to live in something smaller and want the kids to either uh rent the house or somebody else.

So I I think it it leaves lots of room for that.

Uh so with that, I think we can push to a vote.

All those in favor of bylaw 1139.

All those in favor.

Any opposed.

Seeing none opposed, motion carries, and I'll put it over to 91 staff for development variance permit uh 2024.

Thank you, Mayor Tobias.

Uh purpose of tonight's uh report and presentation on the development variance permit for 339, 341, and three four five is for consideration of uh the development variance permit.

Uh the applicant is requesting a total of two variances, and those variances are to increase the total number of stories permitted in the mixed residential land use designation from four to six stories and increase the maximum permitted building height in the RM3 zone mixed residential from 13.5 to 20.7 meters.

The subject sites 345 uh or sorry, yeah, 339, 341, and 345 Island Highway are shown on the screen in in red uh next to uh the public safety building and uh at the corner of Prince Rapper Drive.

This is an image showing the uh conceptual rendering of the the site and the uh the proposed building.

Um it's uh on a corner site across from the uh Fort Victoria and uh as I said is uh cornering on Prince Robert Drive and Island Highway.

The next images show uh additional uh conceptual renderings of the buildings.

Uh the top image is a south elevation uh drawing.

So this would be the uh side yard or uh Hedel Park if you were looking from Hedel Park into the site.

The bottom image is showing the north elevation.

This is the uh perspective from Island Highway.

And the last two images here show a elevation from the west, which is from Prince Robert Drive.

This would be the front yard based on the definitions and the zoning bylaw, and then the final image on the bottom there is of the east elevation which is taken from uh public safety building or the the fire hall.

With respect to discussion for this application the proposed building is designed to be built with the natural slope of the site and the design elements incorporated into the design of the building are seeing opportunities for the perceived height of the massing of the building to be reduced given the articulations and stepbacks that are incorporated into the building.

The total height of the building will be roughly eight meters uh less than the uh the existing uh foundation of the building's uh single family homes located on Prince Robert Drive.

I've added a bold black line on the screen.

I'll see if I can get the laser pointer to work.

And I cannot unfortunately but there's a dark black line showing the uh the bottom uh foundation of the single family homes on Prince Robert Drive in respect to the uh the building uh that's being proposed by the applicant with their height variance um and like I said uh a difference of about eight meters the proposed uh proposed variances can be um can be uh supported by staff because the uh the building is stepped back from the uh the neighboring properties the applicant has the uh worked with the site uh and the slope in consideration of uh how it uh how it slopes up towards Heddel Park and uh that's reflective of the uh the applicant's design and uh in staff's opinion the the total height requested is uh is not going to have a negative impact on the neighboring properties staff's recommendations uh as shown on the screen there's two of them the first is that the development variance permit application be approved um and then the second is that the uh development variance application include the following variances uh the first being the total number of the uh total number of stories permitted uh the m mixed residential land use designation area uh in the official community plan the increase from four to six stories and second that the increase uh of the maximum height be 13.5 meters to 20.7 meters in the RM3 zone mixed residential if there's any questions I can uh answer them uh I'd like to just address council too and just saying that the uh applicant is uh in the audience as well and uh if there's any additional questions that I can't answer they may they may be able to yeah we'll go to questions first uh councilor Lemon thank you um a refresher please sterling or audience um i'm i'm trying i'm trying to it's been a while since we saw the images for this so i'm trying to picture it but it was graduated was it not one of the buildings or both of the buildings were graduated from six to four through the mayor yeah you'll see in the images on the screen there the the uh the building is stepped back from island highway to Heddle Park um the building is uh six I'm thinking about before.

When we first saw this project at the rezoning stage, was it presented as four stories, four stories going up to six?

Through the mayor, uh just to clarification, are you talking about the initial application?

Um, like the the the first version that was presented to council, or are you talking about the what's shown on screen?

I'm thinking the version around um second third reading.

For for clarification, then the the images shown on screen are consistent with what was shown as uh part of the public hearing, and there's been no changes to the application or the uh the applicant's drawing since public hearing.

So n nothing has changed with the application.

Okay, good.

Thank you.

Yeah, just uh to clarify, Sterling, that's a good point.

It's just our process.

We had to do the rezoning first and then the height variance, but the plan remains the same as presented, correct?

That is correct, Mayor Tabas.

Good.

Thank you.

Any other questions?

Do I have somebody that would like to move staff's recommendation?

So moved.

Moved by Councillor McKenzie, seconded by Councillor Brown.

And no, sorry.

I thought this people were shaking hands.

Um, we heard from the people uh behind this building, and uh they spoke positively about it.

And since this variance is the same as what they would have seen and commented on, um they were very persuasive to me.

So that's why I'm supportive of this.

Thank you, Councillor McKenzie, Councillor Brown.

Yeah, similar comment.

The neighbors in behind uh were fine with it, the original one in the same souns.

Yes, likewise, um uh there's uh no no difference uh with what we had seen with the uh uh the public hearing.

And I I think uh going back uh recalling um how the applicant had worked uh diligently to to reduce the uh the height of the building uh before coming to public hearing.

There was uh I think one level of parking and that got uh um down to two layers, which is uh brought the uh the building heights down considerably.

And I don't think we should uh forget the fact that there's gonna be a considerable um uh revenue uh taxation, uh community amenities um uh from this, as well as the uh profound uh covenant that staff and applicant worked on.

Uh I can't think of any other um uh proper application of uh of this magnitude that would uh had that that that much uh green space um uh protected.

So I I think the only the one thing that um uh you know after this is said and done and assuming that the matter passes uh that I would really encourage staff to um quickly um begin a baseline traffic count uh for the harbor um prince Robert V Wall Avenue Helmakin so forth um to um understand and anticipate if there's uh um any um uh impacts and of increase of traffic but we won't be able to know that unless we have a baseline so um I I would encourage that to happen um if this motion is passed.

Thank you, Councillor Rogers.

Any other comments?

Counselor mutson?

Yeah, just my colleague, this is a variance to go from four stories to six stories.

And I just take a look at the building sort of right across the street from Plawrite that's just being built, it's four stories.

And it's a really big, you know.

So just think of what that thing's gonna look like up the road with another two stories.

It's gonna be huge.

And so, you know, the OCP says four stories along the island highway, and now we're gonna do up to six on this one.

It's gonna be enormous.

Uh it's very nice that it doesn't go over top of the hill and the people behind can't see it.

But everybody who drives past it is going to see this enormous six story building.

Uh, whether you put four stories in front of it or not, it it really doesn't matter.

It's the end of the day, it's still six stories.

So, because of this and because it's a variance to go to six stories I'm not going to be supporting this motion.

Thank you Counselor Matson uh yeah I'll just uh chime in uh I think the massing and intensity isn't what the OCP um was was designed the corridor to look like at all.

Uh so I I'm not in support of that and the other part was uh would much rather have seen the first floor as commercial because uh I'm not saying it has to be a tattoo shop, uh counselor Rogers, but it could be a daycare uh or a coffee shop um and and I think we've got to do a better job in in looking at our community's needs and not just for housing to have places for people to actually get the services that they needed are closer nearby.

Hopefully we can come to an agreement that we do need place here.

Otherwise they're getting in their car and going somewhere else to do it, uh, which isn't what we want them to do.

Uh so let's call the vote.

We got a mover and a seconder.

Councilor Sir.

Oh.

Sorry, we got you're right.

Thank you, sir.

Uh is there any comments from the public on this uh that are in the room first on this development?

Just uh before you begin, um applicant Sarah, is it uh an opportunity for um the applicant to speak, or is it the public to speak now?

Thank you.

Go ahead, Mr.

Ford.

Good evening, Mayor, Council.

My name is Doug Ford.

I think you all you all know me because we've been through this for the last two years.

I just wanted to review uh where we are and how we got here.

We uh made an application to rezone this property to RM3, which is consistent with the 2011 OCP.

So we weren't looking for anything, even any variances at that point, but it was brought to our attention that council and staff would like us to preserve some green space.

We've agreed to preserve over one third of the three acres that we have as green space.

It's been placed into a covenant.

We cannot build on it, we cannot use property, but we do maintain it.

In order to preserve one third of the site, we had to reduce what we could use for site coverage, which was 60% of the site could have been covered by buildings if we were going to build four story.

And we reduced that to 29% and moved to six-story in order to satisfy concerns of staff and council with regard to the green space.

So we're here looking for this development variance permit in order to allow us to build the building that is very consistent.

In fact, it's exactly the same building that we presented for the public hearing and that it's just been approved for fourth reading.

So there are no changes to what we've been working with all the way along.

Thank you.

Any questions?

Thank you're gonna ask a question to the uh podium, please.

Thank you.

Yeah, just asking if the building will have a commercial space underneath, like uh a coffee shop that you said, a little store to provide service for the community.

Isn't that what the Viewer Royal would like to see when we build uh when they put up buildings like that?

That's my question.

Thank you.

I I think it's a little bit late for that because now we're in a height variance.

It was just something that I would like to see.

Uh, but in the rezoning, uh uh I think it was initially proposed, but but wasn't included in the final one that we did.

Um anybody else want to ask a question or comment on the proposal?

Well, good evening, Mayor and Council.

Great to see you again.

Thank you so much for all your time and staff as well.

It's been a long road.

We appreciate the discussions.

For clarity, for everybody involved, we wanted to as closely tie what we presented at the public hearing with uh the the full intentions of of uh what we uh envision uh to develop and to build.

And so really appreciate uh the possibility to bring those uh two together here.

And as previously mentioned, it's the exact same plan as what was presented in the the zoning as uh the dvp so thank you so much thank you uh staff we didn't receive any correspondence on this correct i think now we're ready for a vote and we had a mover and uh so the phone right thanks Sarah could see your sign language Carl do we have any comments on the phone on the uh uh for the development variance permit for 339, 341, and 345 Island Highway.

Mayor Tobias, we have no callers right now.

Thanks, Carl.

Now, Sarah, can we go to a vote?

Thank you.

Uh so we got a mover and a second, or all those in favor of the variance for height.

All those opposed.

Uh noted that uh Mayor Tobias and Councilor Mattson opposed.

Motion carries.

Thank you, Council.

Thank you, staff, and thank you, applicant, uh, for it.

Uh Chancellor Park Public Engagement, what we heard report.

Leanne, please.

I'm assuming it's Leanne.

It could be anybody, right?

That's not Leanne.

Okay, great.

Good evening, Mayor Tobias and members of Council.

Before we get into the presentation on the Chancellor Park Playground Engagement, I would like to introduce to you our new community planner, Leah Curtis.

I am thrilled to introduce her this evening to you all.

Leah has been with us since the end of March, and she prior to joining our team, she was with the town of Asoyez.

And Leah has a master's in urban and regional planning from Queen's University in Kingston, Ontario.

And we are just delighted to have her part of our team.

So now I am going to pass this presentation over to Leah.

Thanks for joining us, Leah.

We're privileged to have you.

Thank you, Mayor Tobias and Council, and thank you, Leanne, for the introduction.

I am very pleased to be here in the town of V Royal.

So as Leanne mentioned, I'm the new community planner, and the purpose of this presentation is to present to council staff's findings from the Chancellor Park Playground Public Engagement.

So in the 2024 capital budget, town allocated funds for construction of a new playground at Chancellor Park.

The proposed updates include universally accessible playground equipment that provides accessible play for all persons and abilities.

Accessible play spaces ensure that everyone can have the opportunity to participate and through the features, materials, and the layouts of the park designed.

So the goal of the public engagement was to raise awareness of the town's plans to update Chancellor Park, inform the community of the town's objectives in converting the existing play structure into a more universally accessible structure, and to obtain feedback from the community as to what they'd like to see in terms of features as well as play structures themselves, like what what type of equipment they'd like to see.

So the community was notified through 350 notices that were hand delivered to the surrounding hospital and eastern gateway neighborhoods.

Posters were placed in various positions around town and information was also posted on the town's website and social media web pages.

All right so the engagement process was undertaken from Monday, May 27th to Sunday, June 9th.

There was a mix of online engagement through a survey and two in-person open houses, the first of which was a drop-in open house held on Wednesday, June 5th at the Eagle Creek Village Quality Foods from 5 p.m.

to 7 p.m.

The second event was held at uh on site at Chancellor Park from 10 a.m.

to 12 on Saturday, June 8th.

Um, and through that, we had a total of 133 responses, 92 of which were um through the online survey, and 41 in the open house.

So I'm going to present to you the overall themes, which were um our findings from the responses that were received, both through the written questions on the online survey as well as what was heard um through the attendance of the open houses.

Uh so for the first participants were supportive of introducing a universally accessible playground equipment.

Um, many envisioned the park space for all ages and accessible levels and hoped that the park would become a destination with multiple activities and or features not exclusive to one type of group.

Survey respondents and attendees at both open houses indicated a preference for climbing structures, in ground trampolines, and swings as the top three playground features, and park furniture being chairs, benches, picnic tables, grassy open spaces, and shaded areas as the top three preferred features of the respondents and attendees.

With a note that they'd like to see more seating arrangements not entirely focused on the playground itself.

Sorry, I missed the last one.

Some respondents also noted that the park's proximity to the galloping goose trail also posed as a safety hazard, and they would have liked to see a fence installed, separating the playground from the trail, just that way there are no children are running out in front of cyclists or no balls are running underneath the tires of those bike bicycles.

While some expressed a desire for off-leash dog areas, others were strongly opposed to the idea and wanted to see signage, which indicated that dogs must really remain on their leash.

Other attendees were concerned about the possible reduction of greenhouse, uh, sorry, greenhouse green space currently available in the park.

Many park users stated how much they enjoyed coming to the park to throw a ball for their dog, um, to sit and relax in the sun, um, or just to run around on the green space.

Um, there were concerns from those who lived in closer proximity to the park regarding noise, and some expressed fear that the park would potentially be used for unwanted activities.

Several park users indicated a desire for public washrooms and additional lighting to be available on site.

Uh, yet others stated that having public wash washrooms become available on site may potentially bring more unwanted activities to the neighborhood and the park, and would possibly require additional monitoring and/or for the washrooms only to be available during the day.

Some of the park users would like to see a formal path connecting Cheltenham Street to the park.

Currently it is a dirt path, which means that it is money when it is raining, and it is icy when it is snowy, which is not great when you're trying to block from one area to the next.

Website.

So between both the open houses and the online survey, there were three overlapping questions.

The first of which which, sorry, being which equipment are you most excited to see being included in the playground?

For which, as I mentioned, climbing structures was number one with 64 people, in ground trampoline with 60 people.

And then there was the last, the swings with 49 people with slides coming in closely behind it at 47.

The second question was what features might you like to see in the spaces?

So park furniture had 77, um, grassy open spaces, 54, and shaded areas had 48.

And how best to keep you informed.

The majority of people, 59 uh said social media with 35 for park signage and 34 for website.

Um as mentioned, we had 92 people participate in the online survey.

Um, the following slides are those that have quantitative data shown.

So for the written response questions, please refer to attachment one.

Um they have all of the responses as they were given.

Um, so as mentioned, the majority of the people lived in the town of View Royal.

Um, majority of the people had in the neighborhood or had been in uh a resident of View Royal for more than 10 years.

Most lived within a five-minute walk of the park.

And as mentioned, most of them live nearby in proximity to the park.

So I feel like we've reached a number of people within the area through these different engagement methods.

And most people visited a few times of the year, but then we also had some people at the open houses who visited quite regularly every evening, every weekend, etc.

And most of the respondents for both the online survey, or in this case the online survey, excuse me, were between the ages of 30 to 49.

So um for next steps, um, public feedback will inform the draft design concepts for Chancellor Park Playground, and staff will present this design concept at a future staff meeting.

Can't excuse me.

Thanks for the presentation.

I thought it was uh good and I I stopped by, so it's in my neck of the woods.

Uh I think folks have got a point about uh if you've ever walked through Chancellor Park and you it actually goes out the back way to um strode Cheltenham.

Cheltim Road or is there?

Um it's there's no gravel, there's no path, and so springtime it's probably got a 50-50 if you're gonna wipe out on the grass or not.

Um uh just coming up there.

So perhaps something it can be accessed from both areas uh uh around there.

Um when before well the park was always there but before they put in the basketball hockey net kind of asphalty thing there it was always packed on a sunny day from folks from um uh the canoe and kayak apartments in Eagle Creek and the condos at Camden Green.

Um but when they put the pavement in there wasn't as much place for people to space themselves out and read a book so that's just not being done.

That's the only change I've really seen in the park positive or negative to it.

It um it's never I don't see a lineup of kids trying to fight for playground stuff, but that there's at least one family there kind of you know throughout the day, just about all the day, so it's pretty consistent.

But uh that was good.

What what takeaways do you guys have for us aside from receive?

I think you got a better response than the taxes did.

So I think Don's not gonna be happy with that, but I'm just saying maybe could rub it in.

Um but uh what takeaways do you have from that engagement?

Through the mayor, um most I would say everyone is excited to kind of see something being done with the area in terms of changing the play equipment that's there.

Um, some people would like the play structure to be accessible for all ages, whether it's through your infant ages to 12 or 18, so there everyone can continue to use the play structure.

Cool.

Counselor Rogers and Councillor McKenzie, please.

Yes, I I had attended the open house at uh Chancellor and um uh it's interesting one of the um uh ladies the parents who were there um really wanted to make sure that we did put um the access in behind to Cheltingham I think it is I think that's the street in the back um she says Gallop and Goose belongs to cyclists and she doesn't want to take her three year old along that dangerous path so uh she lives just in back.

And as the mayor said, it's a home well it's not all season.

So I think it's really important to be able to fix the problems first before we invest in new equipment.

So access and so this is what we and one of the great opportunities we've had is to hear what's wrong with the park on top of how we can improve and change this part from a neighborhood park to a destination park.

So one, yes, fix that.

Two, get the fencing.

It is uh uh a really I think a significant issue when kids are playing with the ball and that's gonna go in in uh front of the cyclists or whatever, and that's only gonna cause conflict, and that's what we're going to try and avoid.

If this is going to be a destination park with an accessible structure that is the only one, $300,000 structure that is the only one in V Royal, then um, I guess two things.

One, as we've heard in the comments, people want to make sure that it is going to be an accessible surface.

Chips are not accessible.

So that's that's another cost that we need to build in.

So if we're going to uh make this the destination we're going to, and it's going to be for uh accessibility and uh handicapped mobility challenged individuals, then we would probably expect more accessible parking is going to be required, and indeed there is space to do so.

The uh the parking looks like you can add two or three more stalls.

So um it it did raise some very interesting uh points that we need to go beyond and um and make sure that uh this is going to be indeed um uh fit the bill on all fronts uh for accessible um aspects and the washrooms I think uh signages to where washrooms are located public washrooms are located uh I think is useful and quote unquote public Eagle Creek VGH hospital so I I think um that is getting with the times and and assisting individuals uh if they don't have an app on their phone that would tell them otherwise so let's help the folks out and and tell them where the amenities are.

So I I um I look forward to seeing um uh a write up and and like I say, let's fix the problems first.

Thank you.

I'm assuming you're moving um receipt with after that comment.

Yeah, moving.

Should I come?

Were you moving receipt with that comment?

Uh Councilor McKenzie, please, and then Councillor Mattson.

Can I verify whether this kind of project is tied to any sort of grant funding specific to X accessible equipment?

Uh through the mayor, um this project is part of the 2024-2028 financial plan as part of the playground replacement uh program.

And on the funding sources, uh Ivan's on the line, so correct me if I'm wrong, Ivan, but it's a combination of a few things.

And so development cost charges um casino and then I believe there is one other source of funding but it's not tax.

Okay thank you my question was more um because a lot of the comments seem to not be related specifically to accessibility whereas the the title and and things seem to make it that that was the purpose of updating the park.

So I'm glad to clarify that.

Thank you.

That's about I have a similar question.

I may I attended the open or not the open house, but I was, yeah, I guess that was the open house.

But I'm I'm still at a loss in what accessible uh equipment is for mobility challenged individuals and how it fits in at all with the items that were listed at, you know, they they seem to be more related to people who were who didn't have mobility issues than than did.

And so uh and is is that supposed to be the overall objective of this park?

Is we're it's gonna be a destination park for people with mobility challenges.

Through the mayor, uh it will be uh a destination.

Well, it'll be a park in the town of Uroyal neighborhood park.

It Chancellor Park is identified as a neighborhood park, and um but be because it's on the goose, it has really become a destination park.

I run by there quite frequently and um it's always busy with with people and you know, cyclists and kids um stopping off there to have to have uh a break eat eat their lunch a snack uh the an accessible playground is the base of that is that is for all ages and abilities and um many municipalities throughout North America now are designing playgrounds for all ages and abilities and um staff have done some research in this um they've been popping up across the region uh and been quite successful um my we I went out to uh be during the engagement process, uh my son and I, we visited a couple and he loved them.

He's almost 12 and um and really enjoyed the in-ground trampolines, the the slides, uh the ease play equipment um allow for mobility devices, so wheelchairs to access some of the play equipment.

So it's quite um it's uh they're quite beautiful playgrounds.

Okay, so when this comes back to us, we will see examples of the equipment, et cetera.

So I because I'm still I have to admit I'm sort of ignorant and what what it looks like, so I I really don't know.

Absolutely.

We will be um presenting council with a concept and um and we'll be sh sh you know providing more information once that's developed.

And I see that um Director Lung has his hand up, so I'll pass that over to him as well.

Thank you.

Thank you, Director Taylor.

Yeah, just to speak with respect to kind of ideas and examples of accessible and accessible playground structures.

Uh Staticona Park in the city of Victoria, that's an accessible playground.

And then um that was, I believe, was installed the fall of last year, and then just recently the city of Langford uh just installed their um accessible playground at Low Note Park.

So certainly some examples nearby that uh if you're in the area, certainly worth checking out to see kind of what kind of examples of uh of playground structures there are available for uh the needs uh for people that need access.

Councilor McKenzie.

Um and may I ask um have we engaged with Access West Shore at all the uh through the mayor we did reach out to I believe what the is that IACTI now yes we did send them uh a letter counselor Lemon well that says to me that this is the lens we need to look through when we redevelop or add to any of our neighborhood parks going forward.

And I'm seconding the motion.

Thank you, Counselor.

Uh Lemon, yeah, just a couple of comments uh from me.

One is uh I I think it's a a great park, and really we're talking about replacing the equipment that's there kind of in the same footprint, maybe a little bit bigger.

Um, so it is designated as a neighborhood park, correct?

Uh, and and we'll continue on that designation.

And for counselor Rogers, I I've only seen a few cars parking on parking lot, and those cars didn't have anything to do with um using the park at all.

Um, so I think before we suggest we need more spaces, we should probably look at the parking we've got.

Uh certainly accessible parking, if that's what what we're going to be toting for a large uh van and handicap zones and a place to offload and onload and get up the goose.

But most of the folks that I've seen go there are actually transiting on the goose that are stopping.

That it's actually a stop for them.

Lots from outside there.

So yeah, just before we call it a destination, I didn't think we're turning this into Disneyland, Councillor Rogers.

I thought it was a neighborhood park.

So I don't think we have the budget for Disneyland.

Darn, I was wanting a castle.

Um so um, but I I think the thing is that um uh accessible playgrounds are expensive.

And I don't know if uh staff are intending to have uh one in each corner.

You know, in uh, you know, we've got three, let's imagine we have three corners, right?

Admirals and and uh Choco and um and so forth.

Would we have three accessible structures in V Royal?

I I guess my my question is, you know, it is um, and I guess it depends on the needs, and if, you know, who knows who, what accessible issues and and um youth uh live in the Choco area.

So it uh this might be a model, but if it's not a model, if it's the only one that we intend to put in, then it will be a destination.

And just like uh we're only gonna put in one um um uh sorry, the the uh the bike ramp structure in in View O Park, we're only doing one of those, I would imagine.

So that, and that certainly has been a destination, and that certainly has uh increased the demand for parking uh so much that everyone's parking on Pheasant Lane.

So it, you know, we have to anticipate that if you're gonna draw the people in, they're not always going to be using the goose.

And uh so questions and and comments about an off-leash area.

Now I know the park is very small, but I do want to make a point for the dog owners that um there are just as many dog owners as there are parents.

And if we're going to have uh an area dictated by the province where we're going to have 10-story buildings and a heck of a lot more people, that probably are gonna have be uh more dog owners.

And we'll find out how many people or how many dog licenses there are.

But I the point I want to make is there are only five off-leash spaces in View Royal, and those were created back in 2002.

I'm gonna keep us on topic, and this is uh this is no uh this is an engagement.

What we were heard report, you're adding new stuff in there, so I'll get you to sum up, Councillor Roger.

Indeed.

So um we have heard, and and I guess my my concern was that uh like in Burnside Watkins, we did not acknowledge the the aspects of dog uh owner requests for off-leash.

Likewise, here we didn't anticipate and consider the the need for off-leash in this space.

But the point is that people did raise the point, and if they're raising the question, then either they're gonna mobilize and um or they're going to uh they want to be heard and I guess that's my point.

We've got a lot more dogs and we have not accommodated those residents needs.

Thank you.

I just Councilor Rogers can't help myself but this report was just what they heard not on what we'd like to have heard.

It's what they heard.

It's a comment in the in the thing off leash off leash.

Okay so we got a mover and a seconder um all those in favor.

Any opposed.

Thank you very much.

And Councilor Rogers, there might be an opportunity to bring up some of your concerns about added amenities, and that's for a piece of property the town owns up there that may not be associated exactly with this part.

So uh Leanne, is this you for draft public engagement strategy and survey?

Okay.

All right.

Uh good evening, Mayor and Council.

This is our last presentation of the evening, I believe, um, on the draft public engagement strategy and survey.

And what I'm going to do is um I'm going to take you back because um pardon oh.

So I'm going to be taking you back to last summer.

Uh you may recall that we had two OCP strategic planning council workshops to discuss the OCP process, and council provided some feedback on how they wished to move forward with the OCP.

And out of those two workshops, council passed two key resolutions.

The first one is that the town of U Royal adopts the International Association of Public Participation's Core Values as a general framework upon which to build its community engagement strategy.

And the second resolution is that an engagement tool be developed to seek feedback on the public's preferred official community plan engagement strategy.

So a lot's happened over the last, we're coming up to almost a year now, and now that council has passed the 2024 2028 financial plan.

Staff is now kickstarting this process.

And as part of the financial plan, there are two key non core projects that Council that the Development Services Department is leading.

One is the community engagement strategy, and the second is the official community plan.

And for the community engagement strategy, one key project objective is to understand what kind of engagement the community prefers and what modes of engagement should we consider using.

And with that, as well as the direction that we received from council at the council workshops, staff decided, well not decided, but staff felt that the best engagement tool in order to seek feedback from the community is through a survey.

And we have demonstrated that as part of the community, the Chancellor Park engagement strategy uh survey that we did for that project.

We we got quite a good uh response there, and through a variety of different channels, we're hoping to carry out a similar process.

We have engaged um Tvolas Tavola Strategy Group who were who was Katie Hamilton, who was involved with the OCP council workshops, and we have continued to engage her as part of this particular survey to ensure that we are um responding to council's wishes.

Is that I would like to quickly discuss is that we have prepared a draft public engagement survey that we would like to get feedback from council on tonight because we are wanting to launch the survey before the end of June, before we embark into the summer months.

The survey does reflect the International Association of Public Participation Core Values, and that is highlighted in the public engagement strategy, which is attachment three of the staff report.

And also in the strategy, it outlines how we are going to raise public awareness and promote the survey over the next six weeks.

And we will be doing that through media releases, ads in the Goldstream Gazette, social media, website, posters throughout the town, and sending letters to community groups.

In the strategy that is attached to the report, we have a list of community groups and nonprofit organizations that we would like to send letters to so that we can get feedback from them in terms of what type of interests people in our community have on public engagement, how they like to be engaged, what sort of projects do they want to be engaged on in terms of the OCP, the master master plans, and other projects.

So this is a this type of information is really going to help inform the community engagement strategy.

So it really kickstarts both projects for us.

I'm not going to read out the list of committee groups that we would like to reach out to.

However, if there's any that council can think of and that we should be adding to the list, it would be great to hear from you on that.

And then staff will come back in September with a what we heard report on the public engagement strategy, a survey, pardon me, to so that we can get the ball rolling.

So as I noted, I hope council has had an opportunity to review the survey of before well the strategy and survey before tonight's meeting.

And one I think a technique that quite worked quite well within the OCP workshops was that we just um went around council's table.

We started at one end we ended at the other end I think councilor brown started first last time and uh to give each council member an opportunity to ask questions and provide comment and what we will do is take that feedback and incorporate it into the survey um before we launch it uh next week so it is a quick turnaround however it's just really important that we get going on this that is my presentation and if mayor and council is is supports this idea of going around um the council table then we can we can do that so I'll leave it with Mayor of Tobais perhaps you can facilitate that.

Leah thanks uh for that so really you're looking at two parts you're looking at um support for the strategy and then direct feedback on the questionnaire am I correct?

That's correct.

So if you turn to attachment three of the staff report it's um provides a an overview of the engagement strategy and under background it it provides a bit of a background of why we're doing this and then the uh the key topics and so key engagement topics and the level engagement as per the IAP too and then the engage, then we also have a summary of the engagement approach and so how we're going to raise awareness of the public engagement survey, the in and other various input channels, as well as a list of the community groups and nonprofit organizations that we would like to reach out to.

However, we do have a separate note here that we do want to reach out to the Songis and Esquimalt Nations, but we will be doing that separately, not as part of the survey.

We will be engaging them separately.

So we have a list of demographic questions on demographics.

And then we have um we go into survey questions.

So interest in public participation on town matters, topics of interest, what does meaning engage meaningful engagement look to you uh we have a mix of open-ended questions as well as uh selection random selection and also prefer channels to receive information so it's really important that we come up with an engagement strategy a part of our OCP which will be the sort of the first major project out of the gate to incorporate um or implement an engagement strategy and and also be used as part of the community engagement strategy which is actually affects all departments and all town business in terms of how we engage on master plans and projects.

Great.

Thanks, Leanne.

Let's start on your end, Councillor McKenzie, if you're happy with that.

But before I go to you, just a couple of general questions.

One of which will be on the top of some people's minds right off the bat is this is already budgeted for, we've already kind of budgeted this part out.

And the second part of that is that kind of a motivation for importance because with the new provincial legislation, this is the only time on the OCP that we really get to engage the public and get their feedback on anything with no public hearings being held on anything.

So we can only get their opinions in advance of some of the decisions that we'll be making uh throughout it.

So uh those are the two points it's been we we've decided on the budget we've already uh said it was in second part is it's more important now with this legislation because it's the only time we get to engage the public on on the town that they want to see in the future.

Council McKenzie Thanks my comments relate uh more to the approach rather than the actual questions so I would I didn't see mention of it so I would like to see um kind of like a pop up survey or an interview so that you know perhaps with the um tablet that people can fill in on the spot because I think those have been useful and the approach currently I think will target those people who are already engaged in the community or in reading newspapers and things like that.

So that's my only like how do we target the people who use our services and are in our town every day but um might not be paying attention to those like online and and things like that.

And then I was also when I was when I was looking at the questions I did think we had the question whether you are a View Royal resident and I was thinking do do we want a lot of perspective like I don't want it to be weighted too heavily to non View Royal residents.

So d do we want to restrict it to View Royal residents?

I don't I don't know.

That's thank you.

That's a ratson, please.

Yeah, I guess there's still a lot of people who really don't know what an OCP does or what it's for.

And so I guess in terms of this document, start off with the definition of an OCP and and how it's used to sort of um you know in town planning and you know of what value it is to them and why it should be important to them.

So I I thought that was missing and so I think that would be helpful.

I don't know if this might sound a bit snarky but when you when you mentioned that the same person being used for this survey was also used in our last O C P draft that we just did.

Oh in the workshop okay so then that's I take take back my comment um yeah no I'm the bigger issue would be just you know getting people to fill out the survey and so you know the questions all look fine and so how you do that is probably you know maybe it pay people pay residents to come down here and or or maybe we could have a couple of open houses where people just get to uh provide them full of goodies if they fill out the form.

Thank you, Councillor Mattson.

Councillor Rogers.

Yes, thank you um a lot of concerns.

If we're gonna put this out in um July and August, or sorry, June, July, parents are bailing.

They're the only the only the main focus is they're closing up school and they're gonna hit the road as quickly as possible.

And so in this time frame.

I remember when we were trying to do a survey about the uh uh the bike schools park in summertime and the parents were gone the kids were gone so how are we going to get any response on on a uh uh a a playground on a park and so I I'm I'm really worried that we're gonna be doing a survey it's like doing a uh uh a public hearing on a major uh significant development and no one's around because it's summertime.

Um so timing is everything and summer is never a good time to uh to have people switch their minds to uh you know something as as complex as this um particularly if you know we're looking at community groups like school packs will they be around I doubt it so um that's that's one of the worries I have um yeah the yeah it's interesting to see about raising awareness I think one of the uh interesting um awareness factors is um maybe folks like Christie Point have a Facebook page Choco has a Facebook page maybe Glenn Early has a Facebook page.

Let's hook in.

Let's find out who where those Facebook pages are and um try you know try to draw them in that way.

And as long as they feel that they've got ownership, as fill as they've that they're uh they're really going to be heard.

Um and I'm definitely it it's an interesting range of community groups that you've got.

I would um put emergency our emergency volunteers.

That is an important group.

They're well connected, they know what's happening with the town.

Uh you um I'm pleased that you got some um the green team, but I would uh uh suggest that you have the Habitat Acquisition Group, yeah, Gorgia Waterways uh initiatives.

Those are good folks.

I'm not so sure about our place society.

I don't know how that that relates.

Um that I've never had any involvement with them in in the town.

Um no, they run the um the recovery, the therapeutic recovery.

Pardon me, you're right.

Thank you.

Um yeah, the question do you live in View oil i that's that's my expectation I don't want to hear from Colwood Isquamo Sanich I want to hear from residents I'm pleased that we're gonna have a a separate survey from for the uh First Nation First Nations that's important but the other municipalities no I don't want them involved I don't want their their um um you know because that's that's gonna be too distracting I'd be interested if a property owner someone who owns property in View Royal but uh doesn't live here I think they've they uh have a stake in this um the um yeah I would very much like to hear um and because I I'd like to turn our our our um because this is the last OCP this is before it gets cast into stone and um so I think our our neighborhood precincts um not just the harbor obviously Chilco um North Ruils um we need to somehow tell them what the problem is if they don't silence is consent and they may not be willing to uh when they see the uh the aftermath not going to be terribly thrilled with so we're gonna we have to hit them with blunt instruments to make sure they understand what uh so to say what topics you're interested in and good god select all that apply okay I'll check all 15 I would suggest that we probably would want to see the top five so that we understand what's really important to them in in this range i almost wondered if we could do that in in uh in a same question i don't know can i add something that i just missed quickly pardon me are you complete uh counselor rogers sorry yeah are you done no you want no i i'm i'm not done now if you want to i can go around you know you guys can but i'm not finished with this yet so my comment just as we describe what the OCP is if you could also just put in a map with the various precincts and ask them which precinct they they live in it would just be able to focus it down a bit because I at the end of the day I would think I would like to see comments you know when we do the OCP it get people from various precincts to comment on their precinct and their what they want their community to look like.

So yeah can I just add something to that um and I and I didn't mention mention this early but I just want to mention I mean staff really hope that council gets the word out as well um with the constituents and I you know staff will we're gonna do our very best to get the word out and get out to the go out to the people and and do what we can, but we also rely on on council to get the word out.

Thank you.

Um I'll I'll go around and Councillor Rogers, I'll come back to you.

Um the agree with uh Counselor McKenzie and kind of a pop-up in those neighborhoods.

Um, and I could look in different ways.

I think the one was quite successful in Chancellor Park, um, and you know, kind of what to look for.

Um, I think Councillor Rogers had a good point about you know the the topics you're interested in receiving information about, but you could drill it down, right?

You could start with housing and land use and get down to you know another level of granularity within that, but starting with a smaller group, you could offset it.

Um just from my own experience and being able to reach out, I think one of the other groups that's a little bit harder to understand or like strata association and Christie Point group.

It's kind of an informal group of residents that once you find one person in there that can organize uh uh you know, getting a group of people together.

Um, I think there's powers in surveys, but they're kind of limited.

If you really want to hear what people think, you get them together as a as a collective, like as a strata uh or whatever.

And then you can present your your uh questions verbally and and you get um you get a response and a bit of dialogue between people that is more actually the truth.

Um, I hate to say it that way, that um people might not always tell the truth on surveys, but with their neighbors around, they're forced to tell the truth.

Uh and and kind of uh gets you a better perspective.

So any way we can reach out, and I'm sure we must have maybe a a list of stratas, councils that we correspond with on stuff, but a way in there is uh is is a good way in.

Um that's just a thought.

And I'll come back to you again, Councilor Rogers.

Council Lemon.

Um I'm just minding the time and that we get a closed meeting after this too.

Great, thank you.

Um actually I I had a list of points and most of them have been picked up by my colleagues.

I I agree with with Councillor McKenzie.

Many people aren't on social media, many people aren't receiving traditional media.

Um and you know it's it's it's it's a complicated wor world and people often um choose to tune out.

So anywhere we can grab attention um is is a good thing.

And that might be the most popular way to go.

And perhaps you know maybe we have a pop-up in Chancellor Park that seems to be a uh a a gathering spot.

And I did Tabolo help with this um survey or do they come in later?

Through the mayor, they assisted in drafting the survey.

Great.

Yeah.

Along with staff's input.

Good, good um summers if you know, I'm I'm I'm in that bit, was in that business, and summer is a terrible time to get people's attention.

They, you know, if they were not um plugged in through the year, they're certainly not plugged in in the summer.

So that will be a real challenge.

And and and that's when I think your the pop-up example will be perhaps the most successful way of of getting people in.

That's the only time we have.

Um, and I guess that's what I'm hearing, is that's the only time we have.

It has to happen in July.

We can we can extend this to the end of August.

Um, that's not a problem because we will be coming back to council in September.

So we can, depending on the responses we're getting, we can we could extend it.

It's um and perhaps we extend it into the first week of September.

Well let's gate let staff will gauge it on how we're doing with it because we would like to hear from as many individuals as possible.

We really want to get the word out.

We really want to um, you know, hear, you know, more voices in the town and and getting people engaged and interested in the official community plan.

And so we will um, even though we said six weeks, it is a long time to have a survey uh out.

However, we'll uh we'll be monitoring it.

Um a survey, in a way, is sort of the biggest bang for the buck.

Council needs to know that we don't have a big budget for this, and we can't be spending it all on consulting.

We need to make sure that we are getting, you know, we're we're we're being mindful of of our budget, and we are getting the biggest bang for the buck, and we're trying to do most in-house.

However, you know, there's it's it is it is you know, it is work.

So um this is and you know, if we're not satisfied with the responses, then maybe we need to extend this a bit further.

But we are under some time constraints in terms of getting going on the official community plan.

It would we have to I'm getting a bit off track, but I think this helps emphasize the time constraints is that the province requires us to update our official community plan by uh the end December of 2025, and it to best utilize staff time and resources it's it's good to do it this all at once not in a piecemeal fashion especially an official community plan so this is why we're thanks Leanne I'm just gonna move us along a little bit um and and uh so uh maybe extend it out a little bit so I agree with uh there's a concern for summertime and I will have to say that's the only time I can really uh turn my attention to this so if you say September, people have got kids going back to school.

They're not paying attention to anything else.

They're they're in that mode.

So I think everybody's got assumptions here.

Uh, and no time is good time or or the best time.

So I think once we get it out there, we can extend as necessary or uh whatever.

We won't shorten it, but um but uh I I think the time of year is is busy all the time that people know.

Uh did you have something else?

Um I I think I'm uh oh one question.

Will this um be a template for for engagement going forward?

Oh, absolutely.

So the yes, okay.

Good, good answer.

Thank you.

And are there questions that we can reuse that were asked before so that we would have maybe a baseline?

We've asked lots of surveys before.

Are there some questions in there that we've got some historical data, maybe something that we could cross-reference older surveys that we've done?

Absolutely, we can we can look into that.

I yeah.

If it's been a question asked before and we ask it again and get a new set of data back, it's always interesting to compare that.

Counselor Brown.

This is like being the last pick on the playground for sports team.

Anyways, um yeah, there's several items that come up tonight.

I would like to have more chance to speak.