Council Meeting

Good evening.

Welcome to the Town of View Royal Council meeting for Tuesday, October 3rd, 2023.

And we'd start with a uh calling the meeting to order and reading a First Nations acknowledgement.

As we look over our agenda and ponder our positions for this evening's agenda, let us also consider the impact it has on our neighbors, the Lakongan speaking people known today as the Esquimalt Nation and the Songhees Nation, and that their historic connections to these lands continue to this day.

And today is election day in Esquimalt Nation.

So they're electing uh the mayor and uh council.

So I guess we'll know the results later on this evening for that.

This evening we'll hear from the public uh who telephone in during the public participation and question period portions of the agenda.

If you wish to provide your comments to council regarding the development variance permits for 25 Chancellor Avenue, there'll be a specific time to speak to this application when it's considered during the meeting.

If you wish to provide comments by telephone, call 778-402-9227.

And when prompted, enter conference ID 223 560 805 Pound.

You will be immediately muted.

Once admitted to the meeting, please do not unmute yourself until you're asked.

And at the appropriate time of the agenda, I will then announce the last four digits of your phone number.

Ask you to mute the live webcast to avoid feedback.

Ask you not to use your speaker for phone to ensure sound quality, and ask that you unmute yourself by pressing star six.

To begin, whether you're addressing council here or online uh please indicate your name and address for the record speakers will have five minutes each to speak during public participation and two minutes to ask a question during question periods and you'll be timed this meeting will be recorded by participating in this webcast you're consenting to uh being recorded and the recording will be made available on the town's website for future access can I get a motion to approve the agenda as is and I don't think you have a blue sheet.

Moved by Councilor Rogers, seconded by Councilor McKenzie.

All in favor.

Any opposed?

Seeing none opposed, motion carries.

Uh minutes and receipt.

Adoption of uh can I get another?

Moved by Councilor Rogers, second by Councilor McKenzie.

Uh, any errors or omission or additions that staff have or that uh councils noted.

Um, seeing none, we can move to vote uh on the motion to adopt.

All in favor.

Any opposed?

None opposed.

Motion carries.

Uh mayor's report.

I will be try to be brief and concise.

It has been a very uh busy fall already, and I think it's only gonna get a bit busier for us.

Uh again, regrets that councillors Lemmon and Counselor uh Matson couldn't join us.

Counselor Mattson is down with COVID.

Just a reminder of us all that uh we're done with COVID, but it keeps on coming back for us.

Uh, on behalf of council, I want to acknowledge the loss of our RCMP law enforcement family and the passing of Constable Rick O'Brien, who was killed in the line of duty and whose regimental funeral will be held tomorrow in Langley.

I also acknowledge the role of our own firefighters and RCMP in the ongoing investigation of the drowning of a young man in Thetis Lake this past week.

September has been extremely busy with UBCM and Vancouver, where over 220 resolutions were passed.

The municipal insurance AGM meetings with the West Shore Chamber of Commerce, meetings with the ministers's uh staff from environment and climate change, as well as municipal affairs.

Um there has also been meetings with the Squamalt Nation.

And uh I'd like to thank all the counselors who took part in the Songhees Pow Wow for Truth and Reconciliation Day and those who paused to reflect uh on the impact of colonization on our First Nations communities.

October is also a busy month, uh, and thank council for sharing a load of attending events and supporting uh the town as a team.

Uh with that, I'd like to introduce our petitions and delegations.

And we have with us Marnier Essery, Chair of the Intermunicipal Advisory Committee on Disability Issues.

And Marnier, thank you for your years of work and uh having Counselors Brown and Counselors McKenzie on your committee.

I hear nothing but good things that you're able to uh to surface.

So uh thank you, and I'll put the microphone over to you.

Thank you so much.

Um hopefully everyone can hear me okay.

Uh good evening, Mayor and Council.

Thank you so much uh for the opportunity to speak to you tonight.

If someone just shake their head that they're hearing me okay, um great.

Um so my name is Murnie Essery, I'm the chair of IACTE.

Uh since 1989, we've been an accessibility committee.

And in 1993, our committee became the Intermunicipal Advisory Committee on Disability Issues with municipal council appointees and a citizen representative from Colwidge, Langford, Souk, Machosen, and the Highlands.

Until this year, we've never had council appointments from V Royal.

And we're very thrilled to have Councillor Brown and Councillor McKenzie join us this year.

So thank you so much for that.

We've never received any funding from V Royal.

In the past, we've have collaborated with V Royal staff member Emmett McCusker on a number of projects.

And we've also completed the town's measuring Up Accessibility audit.

So just a brief background: our mandate is to advise all councils in the West Shore, CRD and beyond, for policies, services, and facilities for people with disabilities.

That includes transportation, housing, employment, education, and recreation, to provide an opportunity for public input on accessibility issues that affect people with disabilities, identifying barriers and partnering with local councils and agencies, promoting initiatives that foster active living, and the full participation of people with disabilities in their communities.

IACTI does individual outreach and advocacy and informs councils about the grants that they might qualify for.

In particular, recently, the local community access grant is available for up to $25,000 to identify an access barrier.

We have three people on our team who do paid access consulting, and over 50 community partners, and three members with Indigenous ancestry, and a voting member from the Aboriginal Network on Disability Society.

IACTI has people with lived experience, caregivers, and people who work with agencies that help the disabled.

And we give accessibility advice upon request.

Just a little bit of background that we want to share that we've been very involved with the access legislation since the very beginning.

We've attended consultations, given feedback, and advocated about why the accessibility legislation is so important.

And we agree that municipalities drafting an access plan is important and also making improvements is important.

An email for an accessibility feedback mechanism, such as accessibility at ViewRoyal.ca is needed, with these emails copied to us hopefully and your current View Royal Council appointee.

This email needs to be advertised so the public is aware of this email, otherwise, a new accessible email is basically useless.

We'd also like to see a link to our committee on your council website so that people will be able to find the resources, our contact information, and our agencies.

We've been advocating for the new accessibility legislation for a long time, as I mentioned.

It's very challenging right now to receive ongoing calls from people who are angry and feeling left out about the way the municipalities are deciding to respond to the accessibility legislation.

There is strong sentiment that although the municipal staff have great intentions, there could be a conflict of interest with them directing the access barriers and accessibility plan.

Indeed, the narrow focus and the decision of what to focus on has been decided without a focus group, feedback from residents, or consulting with any community partners.

Our concern is that not fulfilling the Section 9, Part 3 of the Accessible BC Act will jeopardize municipalities' ability to qualify for current and future funding.

Section 9, part 3 of the Accessibility Act, just as a reminder, states that an organization must establish a committee to assist the organization to identify barriers to individuals in or interacting with the organization, and advise the organization on how to remove and prevent barriers to individuals in or interacting with the organization.

The key component of this section says an accessibility committee must, to the extent possible, have members who are selected in accordance with the following goals.

At least half of the members are people with disabilities or individuals who support or are from organizations that support people with disabilities.

The members described reflect the diversity of people with disabilities in BC, and at least one of the members is an Indigenous person, and the committee reflects the diversity of people in BC.

Nothing about us without us advocates that people with disabilities have full and direct participation in the development and implementation of all legislation that impacts them.

I actually sincerely hopes that residents, community partners, and groups like us are actively involved in the creation of this accessibility plan.

In fact, when the legislation started, Dan Coulter, the then Parliamentary Secretary for Access said about the accessibility legislation.

We know people experience barriers, and our approach will reflect that.

And years ahead to ensure that all voices are heard.

And Nicholas Simons, the Minister of Social Development and Poverty Reduction, said at the time people with disabilities and people who face barriers have been involved in this process from the beginning.

And it is with their continued input that we'll ensure that we build a barrier-free BC.

I actually look forward to continuing to work with the municipal councils and staff.

We are currently transitioning to become a nonprofit group, which we hope will happen in the new year.

And I'm very happy to answer any questions that you might have.

We really value your time and your effort and your support.

And I really thank you for the opportunity to speak with you tonight.

Thank you, Vanyu.

Well said, and I know that Council really looks to your advice and your experience in this.

And I think before I pass it over to my colleagues for questions, I do have one question for you, Marnie.

In your new role potentially as a society, would you still be able to provide advice to municipalities as well?

Absolutely.

What we're looking to do is we're transitioning to become a nonprofit, which is going to be called the Access West Shore Society.

We hope that that's up and running in the new year.

It's a work in progress right now.

We'll be finalizing our bylaws and constitution at our October meeting, which we'll then send out to all the local councils.

And we're going to have a brand new website as well, which will be independent.

And what we're looking to do is brainstorm how we can have a formalized relationship with all the local councils.

So perhaps looking at a memorandum of understanding of services so that we could continue to provide uh information access and uh any kind of consultative information you might need going forward.

So definitely looking to continue that relationship.

Thank you so much.

Uh questions?

Uh see one from Councillor Rogers and Councillor Brown, please.

Thank you very much for presenting and and providing your notes.

And I would be very interested to hear more about when you've developed your society.

And I guess one of the questions is approximately how many members do you have?

We have currently right now our voting members.

We're lacking some citizen reps.

We'd love a citizen rep from View Royal.

We have voting members from Highlands in terms of a citizen rep and a council rep and an alternate.

The two uh voting members that are council reps from View Royal.

Uh we have a councillor and an alternate voting member from Callwood.

No citizen rep right now.

Lankford has a council rep and an alternate as a voting member and no citizen rep.

We're lacking voting members, unfortunately, in terms of citizen rep.

Right now, many places do not have a citizen rep.

The only citizen rep is currently from Highlands and Machosen.

And we have up to 15 voting members, but that structure will change once we become a society next year.

But currently, right now we have up to 15 voting members.

One of our voting members, which was voted in at our AGM, they've always been active on our committee for six years now.

But the Aboriginal Network on Disability Society has now got full voting rights on our committee.

And that was a unanimous decision at our AGM to make sure that they had full voting rights.

So 15 voting members currently, but that may change in our structure coming soon.

Thank you.

Do you know approximately how many residents of that you would represent and be advocates for?

Yeah, so we have over 50 community partners, and something to keep in mind about the 50 community partners is that those are agencies and organizations that help the disabled.

And we're talking about 2,000 plus people in terms of their membership that we actually advocate for and network with.

So in terms of the people with disabilities that we're actually networking and advocating for advocacy for, well over 2,000 people.

I'd say it could be up to 8,000 people simply because of the membership lists.

When we do any kind of advocacy, whether it's local, regional, or provincial, we worked with our community partners and we have a list of over 50 community partners that that information goes out to, whatever topic we're working on.

So their membership lists are much wider than our membership, but our information is shared with their membership.

So it could be in the neighborhood of 2,000 to 8,000 people.

And in terms of local residents that we helped doing individual advocacy in View Royal alone in the last two years, I would say 30 people I've helped personally.

While I can't share personal details, I can just give you a number in the sense that those were topics or individual advocacy issues, resources they needed linked to or contacts or mail information I mailed out.

To wrap up your uh thank you very much.

Excellent information and the uh the reason I'm very specific in the question is um I see the staff are um you know working to draft an online survey um and uh to gather that would be posted in about January.

And I would really hope that you would be a conduit uh to ensure that um many of those uh individuals that you represent uh will would uh become aware of of this and participate in that survey.

Absolutely.

I'd really hope that if a survey is drafted that it goes out in your newsletter, which I actually get for the town of View Royal, and published online so people have a several ways of giving feedback, whether it's over the phone, online, um in person, mailing in.

One of the things that we find is depending on the age range you're dealing with.

Some people are more comfortable with technology and some people aren't.

So when you're looking at surveys, one the public needs to know about that it's available and that you want feedback, and a deadline to receive the feedback.

But there also needs to be a variety of ways for people to give feedback.

I still get a number of people who prefer to phone me personally and get uh information and help and resources.

And we also have a lot of people that contact through the website or through email or through Twitter.

So I would encourage for you, Royal, when you're putting out the survey, make sure the public knows about it.

Uh certainly we can link that survey and send it out to our community partners and make sure we know the deadline.

But the way people interact and respond, there needs to be a a variety of ways and processes to do that.

Thank you.

Wise advice.

I appreciate it.

Council Brown, please.

Thank you, Marnie, for your presentation.

And thank you for your the amount of time and effort you put in over the years and your leadership.

I just wonder if the town could do something to um help um by not not necessarily pointing someone to to the society but perhaps advertising in our newsletter would be one means of doing it on the website to to look for somebody a community member from the town of V Royal to be on the new society.

Absolutely we'd love to have a citizen rep we'd love to have a citizen rep in V Royal for a number of years now.

We have had people that live in V-Royal that have been involved in our committee.

Ruth Reynolds was very involved.

We've had other citizen reps that have been involved for different projects, but they've been specific to the project.

They haven't been longtime participating in our group.

So what we would like to see is a more formalized link because we definitely have had citizens of VROIL work on individual topics, whether it's emergency preparedness, whether it's parks.

But what we're looking for is a more established relationship where a citizen rep to be part of our committee and also interact and connect with council on an ongoing basis.

So going forward, that would be great.

And in terms of the advertising for the nonprofit group, that is coming.

We're actually going to be doing some media about announcing the new nonprofit.

And we will be advertising for specific skill sets and diversity of experience of things that are missing in our group right now.

So that will be coming and we will be sharing that with all the local councils as we move forward.

We're just not quite there yet.

Thank you.

Thank you, Councillor Brown.

Is there any other questions?

Again, Marni, thank you so much for your presentation and I'll I'll take it for action to see if we can advocate getting uh an email out to get you um uh a representative uh from the town of view royal uh uh that would be uh part of your new society.

So thanks again.

Awesome.

Thank you and I'm sorry I couldn't be there tonight.

I still have a bit of a a tickle from a dry cough of a poll and uh airing on the side of caution I thought it was better to uh be in the picture than in in person.

But at some point soon in the future I definitely would welcome another opportunity to engage and interact with the town of you royal mayor and council.

So thank you so much.

Thanks again Marnie.

Good night all and I think after that we could uh probably go to public participation period and just a reminder for folks who might call in that uh there is a separate public participation for the uh variants for 25 Chancellor Avenue.

Um so I'm thinking Diane and Brian, you don't really want to make a comment.

You're here for 25 Chancellor Avenue.

Um, unless I'm wrong.

Uh Carl, is there anybody on the phone that would like uh to address counsel?

Mayor Tobias, we have multiple callers.

First caller, last four digits are one, two, one, one.

Thanks, Carl.

Um, caller number with the last uh one two one one.

Can I get you to state your name and your address and unmute?

Caller with the last uh four digits.

So one two one one, can you unmute yourself and uh state your name and your address, please?

Can we go to the next caller, Carl?

I'm just checking if the other one needed to be unmuted at our end.

Um the other caller we can try again in a minute, but the second caller is last four digits eight eight eight one.

Uh caller with the last four digits of eight eight eight one.

Uh can you unmute yourself and address counsel, please?

Stating your name and your address first.

Caller with the last four of eight eight eight one.

Please unmute and state your name and address and address council.

Carl, these still both uh callers still online, but uh either they're just not unmuting themselves or we have a technical issue that's not letting them speak.

Um if we can uh work out a way, maybe we can get them on uh later in the meeting if uh if that's okay.

Oh, um can the uh caller to unmute hit star six.

Okay, I'll try that one for uh caller with the last four of eight eight eight one.

Uh can you hit a star six to unmute yourself and state your name and your address, please.

Um if the callers uh want to send an email in or something, that might be the if uh they were trying to get in and didn't, and we had a technical issue, but for now it uh uh looks like uh they're not trying to call in.

Okay, thanks, Carl.

We'll move along in the agenda then, and I think that brings us uh no business arising from previous minutes.

Uh reports, staff reports.

We have one, and that's for 25 Chancellor Avenue.

Not sure, Jeff, if you're on the line.

And I'm going to uh share my presentation here.

This is a uh development variance permit application for 25 Chancellor Avenue.

Oh just gotta get that message going.

Oh, there we go.

The um the subject property is at 25 Chancellor Avenue at the corner of uh Chancellor and Connard, just uh two doors down from the farmer Helmkin Market.

Purpose of this application is to consider a development variance permit for an accessory building, uh namely the length and the uh separation of the the accessory building from the house.

Um the house is located near the near the corner of the intersection.

Uh there was an accessory building that was located between the principal building and the rear yard.

That building has been removed and the proposal is to replace it with a new building and to rebuild the building they would have to comply with the with the zoning.

It would be located in the same location as the previous garage and but would be uh would be a different design as shown here.

Uh the proposal complies with the zoning bylaw, uh except in two respects, and that relates they want to build a building that's 9.15 meters long where 7.5 meters is required, and for that building to be cited 2.8 meters from the uh principal dwelling where 3.0 meters is uh is required.

The applicants' reasons for the requests are because they want to locate the building in roughly the same location as the previous uh accessory building.

Uh they would like to use part of the previous uh foundation for this new building, and the length is to uh keep the building narrow, situated on the existing hard surface that would minimize intrusion into the rear yard, which uh features a large willow tree and a bunch of green space.

Um the building official visit of the property and looking at the foundation, the condition of the foundation, it appears that it might be suitable for reuse.

But in the building permit stage, a structural engineer would have to certify it.

Overall staff support the proposal because the variance to the building separation is minor, and the variance of the building length has no impacts on neighboring properties as well as from the street.

Staff has no objection to the proposal.

Alternatives through council include declining the application or defer consideration to a future date if uh there are some concerns about the uh variance to be resolved.

Ultimately, the recommendation is to approve the development variance permit with the requested variances.

Um that concludes the presentations.

And if there's any questions, I'd be uh happy to answer them.

Uh thanks, Jeff.

I appreciated that.

And we'll just hold off actually uh going to discussion on the agreement until comments from the applicant.

But do you have any questions for Jeff?

Uh none there.

Comments from applicant.

Uh no comments from the applicant.

Um, and I don't think there's been any correspondence from the public on this variance, but um there's nobody here in person, Carl, so we'll go to you on the phone uh for any uh comments from the public for the variants for 25 Chancellor Avenue.

Mayor Tobias, we have caller 1211 still on the line, and we can ask them to unmute by hitting star six.

And that that may be what they're that may be what they're calling about.

I don't know.

Yeah, it would interrupt the agenda if that's not what they were calling about uh right now.

So I think we'll uh that was the previous one, but we have no new calls, do we?

We have no new calls at this time, Mayor Tobias.

We'll try.

Uh caller with the last four digits of one, two, one, one.

Could you press uh star six to unmute yourself, please, and just state your name and your address.

Mayor Tobias caller has left.

We're not we're not batting so good uh uh for this one.

Okay, so we've got no comments from the public on this one.

We can move to correspondence, which there is none.

Um so now we go down to um considering staff's recommendation to approve.

Councillor Rogers.

Got a mover and a seconder discussion.

Uh just uh general I agree with staff.

Um this uh is in context with the size of property, the building situation, and so forth.

I think it's uh it's all quite reasonable to accept.

Councilor Rogers, uh Councillor Brown, the second or no sound looks good to me.

Any other discussion?

Um all in favor?

Any opposed?

Seeing none opposed, uh carry staff for uh approval of your recommendation.

So I think we've got uh committee the whole resolutions and we got a slew of them.

I'll look to my colleagues to see if they want to um tease one out individually uh or we want to go through them all councilor makense so i'm happy to move um all of them with the exception of eight which i'd like to pull out okay uh any other considerations there's seeing if i want to pull any on of them out.

And uh no, so we could uh move uh one through seven, councilor McKenzie, if you're happy with that.

Second.

Uh seconded by or moved by uh councilor Brown, seconded by councillor, or actually was moved by Councillor McKenzie, seconded by Councilor Brown, all in favor.

So one to seven passes.

Uh approval with uh any opposed, sorry.

And I saw none opposed.

So uh number eight, uh petition government to fund and install bike lane on admiral's mode.

Uh a road uh was announced motion referred to uh the cat this uh from the council meeting by councilor Rogers.

That the committee recommend to council that a letter be sent to the Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure encouraging the installation of bike lanes on the east side of admiral's road and that is not on the view royal side correct uh councilor rogers that's uh opposite on the song he's so with that seeing how you wanted that pulled councilor McKenzie please i this was just the one I didn't feel comfortable in uh approving and the reason for that is because it is not on our property so I don't feel comfortable in making a recommendation for something that is not on town property.

Thank you.

Councilor Roger.

Yes um I I I uh take uh um councillor McKenzie's point.

And in actual fact um uh I think the wording is um not quite what we'd intended, because it it does it really should be a letter be sent to the Ministry of Trans Transportation Infrastructure, encouraging them to consult with the First Nations regarding an inst installation of a bike lane on the east side.

So it's is missing a vital aspect encouraging ministry to consult with the First Nations about the installation of bike lanes, and and I don't know if that's uh that would probably be it.

I thank you for bringing that to my attention.

I agree.

I think consultation is a is a key point, and and obviously it's it's necessary.

Thank you, Councillor Rogers.

Um, is there any um staff consideration when it comes to that road just over the uh space from I I guess how well, and we're talking about Admiral's Road, I guess to the light or the bridge to be exact, would be um uh view royal shared with Songhees on one part, or or how does that um actually ownership of that right-of-way go?

Uh Mayor Tobias, the the Admiral's Road, basically up until Island Highway is owned by the Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure through the entire right-of-way width.

Um maintenance-wise, they do curb to curb, and we help out with the sidewalks.

Thank you.

Ivan, Council Rogers.

Yeah, it just is a and again a point of um context here, and and uh staff can help me if I'm wrong.

But my understanding is that um the uh there's been a sizable contract uh awarded for uh sewer lines or or some major infrastructure.

And I think part of that infrastructure was uh going to be sidewalks.

Um, but um I it was silent on on bike lanes.

Um I just thought one of the staff have any further details that they could assist council with.

Uh Mayor Tobias, I haven't heard anything yet, but I'll I'll touch base with the C RDE.

They're the ones that own the sewer in the area, and then maybe we can we can better confirm that for you for council.

Yes.

So it's I guess the members, it's it's not uh it in some senses it may be a rush um um because it it's a critical point if uh we do have uh sidewalks installed um and uh you know bike lanes always require an additional consideration.

But um uh I just would hope that uh the ministry would uh we could encourage the ministry to look into this, consult with the First Nations, and uh see what's possible.

That's really the intent of the uh the message because um um we obviously need to have uh bike lanes on both sides to continue the uh the the cycling corridors um that sanitic and uh squamalt have already established thank you council rogers so your concern is like we're where a squamalt kind of ends at their township there is an established bike lane there there isn't a marked bike lane until uh we hit the other side of um craigflower is that the concern uh yeah they i i from from my recollection i'm not visualizing the whole thing entirely but i think from haliwell uh through to crayflower um it's a it's a tenuous situation on on both sides uh vall and uh song east so if uh infendida staff are saying that um many this is basically a ministry road um then let's let's encourage them to work with and consult with the first nations and see what can be achieved that's really the intent of the uh the motion the only concern i have is if that is in the plan um uh maybe maybe let i what i would recommend is we refer this to staff to get an update on on the um on the condition of the road or any plans and then we could uh advocate later.

Kim, please.

Thank you, Mayor Tobias.

I wanted to um clarify a bit about the the motion itself.

You might recall that councilor lemon took exception to a previous motion wherein the motion read that we encourage one government to talk to another government to have this done.

And so staff was asked to provide a comment draft resolution and the resolution that was drafted by staff is what's on the agenda and we purposefully avoided mentioning more than one level of government and our expectation is that should the province want to put infrastructure in that session they will consult with the um First Nations that are neighboring.

Councillor McKenzie.

I guess to to clarify then a bike lane would actually be part of the road versus the sidewalk.

So it would be property of the ministry.

Uh Mayor Tobias, yes, that is correct.

Okay, then I feel better about that.

Okay, so um and and I take staff's point.

We can't tell the ministry how to do their job requires consultation or not.

So uh councillor Rogers, are you happy with the way that that is written given staff's explanation?

Absolutely.

That's uh let's get it um get it to the ministry, bring it to their attention, encourage everybody to see what can be done.

Okay.

Uh all in favor of staff's recommendation there.

Uh any opposed?

Seeing none opposed, motion carries.

Uh thanks for that discussion.

Other reports we've got the uh uh minutes of the West Shore Parks and Recreation Society Board of Directors, and I believe that there is uh another update meeting coming up uh shortly.

Uh and the minute minutes of the parks and recreation environment uh advisory committee that was held uh on the 26th uh 2023.

So out of that uh there comes a uh few uh a bit of correspondence as well um from the advisory committees.

If I could refer you to your staff recommendations uh sheet, and that is uh PREAC uh 1023, I believe.

And that is Nursery Hill Drive Playground Request.

Uh Council considered the request by one uh individual at the following meetings, and it goes back to 2021, and asked the proponent to obtain neighborhood report um uh preact considered the item on May 23rd, 2023 and September 26, 2023.

Okay, you wish it.

Uh sorry, just to the point of order.

Um, I wonder if maybe if we should um uh receive the the minutes of the West Shore um parks and recreation item A.

Um, that it's still outstanding.

I do have a question of um of our chairperson there.

Uh yeah, I stand corrected.

So can I get a motion to receive the receipt A and B.

Second.

Uh moved by Councillor Rogers, seconded by Councillor McKenzie.

All in favor.

Any opposed, seeing none opposed, motion carries.

And uh Councilor Rogers.

Yeah, thank you.

Um so Damon, the um we mentioned last time uh there was a um presentation by Pickleball uh association.

Did that happen?

I'm curious uh what the outcome was.

Yes, it did.

Uh we uh had a report from the pickleball consultant that uh provided numerous different options for us.

Uh very lengthy meeting, seven different sites were proposed on West Shore grounds.

Uh we ended up uh selecting one and the board moved to have a six court pickleball uh project presented to the West Shore Parks and Recreation ownership at the October meeting as part of a future capital project discussion.

Uh I'm pleased to announce that uh it won't have any uh it won't appear to have any impact on the 20 uh twenty four budget as well.

Uh we've had uh some surplus that we've been able to utilize to uh help get that done.

The at this point the construction costs have uh come in uh surprisingly lower than anticipated uh mainly because the materials needed to build it are kind of minimal comparative to most recreation type uh facilities uh example ice rink or uh things like that so um so far it's good news and uh meritobias will be present for the ownership meeting that we'll see that presentation uh move forward uh this month uh hopefully.

Thank you.

Any other questions for the the uh reports for West Shore or for moving down to Nursery Hill?

The um I attended the uh the meeting on September 26th, um and this is where the uh parts uh this is a Sunday, and where parts of uh advisory had had met with um Harry.

Um and subsequent to that there was um another meeting of residents, and my understanding is that it's not just a playground they're interested in, they're interested in having an off-lease space as well.

Um this is um uh a carryover, if you like, uh, where the area and uh staff had um been um given a report a couple of years ago about uh having an off leash area in Choko Park, and and that was uh uh voted soundly down by both both residents and council, but an off leash area is still outstanding, and and um that's what um the dog owners of that area are interested in.

And uh the um and so it's it's probably gonna carry on further discussions, but at this point um they are making gathering a petition.

So we'll leave it to the residents to uh petition the council at some point um on one or both matters.

And and um I just think the the key point is uh for staff to start thinking again uh where in this area an off-leash area, dog off-leash area might be most uh beneficial um if it's not likely that this could be uh successful with um the terrain and and the vegetation and so forth.

So heads up, complications are coming.

And otherwise I'd I'd uh move your seat.

Thank you.

And if I could just add my observation to this, is that this was an area that became developed quite quickly uh in that and you've got stratas that are on stratas.

And from what I see, we don't have enough space to accommodate a playground, off-leash park, outdoor smokers, and then when you do have or or even a dog park, because when I was last there, there was complaints about the dogs peeing in where the children play or or outside spaces.

So there simply wasn't enough green space to accommodate the number of people we've got uh there.

So my concern is is that when we look at our future planning and the future uh challenges we have in in land space management for making that sailable I'm just Turkskin Lane and places like that are of great concern to me because we don't have enough green space for essentially I you know 10% of View Royal is going to be on that little street and we don't have enough green space for them.

So it's concerned there and we're having troubles coming up with answers.

So um my concern isn't only for there but just learning from that and saying how are we going to go accommodate all of these other people with similar concerns as we move forward.

So um councilor Rogers uh has got a motion to receive can I get a seconder for that uh councillor McKenzie you had a point too?

Oh no second I'm just seconding second it and do you had a a point as well no I think um as councillor Rogers said uh since the pre act meeting, there was a a subsequent meeting in this petition so um I don't think we can um do as was originally proposed by well, we could because pre ac originally said that they wanted to survey the residents.

Um so it should we wait on that to get the petition?

I I think the residents are taking it upon themselves to do that survey right now, and and um believe me, there's there's different points of view among the residents themselves.

We have nine buildings and uh uh a lot of uh different points of view and and a lot of dogs.

So it's going to be a an interesting thing.

And and I guess I the the uh the hope is that um staff being aware of this request and the the request of um all the Chyco area, the six mile area, the Atkins area, um dog off fish area is still a desired um amenity, a walkable amenity that uh they're looking forward to uh uh to having uh town work on.

So we'll see what happens there.

Thank you, Councilor Rogers.

Any other comments?

Seeing no other comments, uh we've got a motion to receive.

All in favor?

Any opposed?

Seeing none opposed, motion carries.

And prohibiting uh renewable natural gas.

The committee recommend to council in addition to other requirements already listed in the building by law code.

Um the town not permit renewable natural gas as an alternative energy source to meet zero carbon step code four.

I move that this matter be referred to staff.

Second it.

I'm gonna mover and a seconder.

Do you want to motivate before we go to comments?

Um it's just tax recommendation, and and um I think it's uh they're already working on the the zero carbon aspects, and um uh this it's logical that they would work on this and bring back a report and further the cause.

Oh, and we have staff here.

Yeah, we do.

Councilor McKenzie.

Yes, I think uh I would like staff to kind of give us a little bit more information on it because I know it's not uh quite a simple matter.

I attended a CRD uh meeting recently for climate, and there was a lot of consideration for secondary or backup energy supplies.

And so um yeah, I think more information from staff would be great.

And any other comments or staff, I'll get you to chime in.

Ilien.

Good evening, Mayor Tobias and members of council.

Um staff is happy to um take this back and uh do some meaningful review and talk to our neighboring municipalities um and perhaps reach out to even Ninaimo and Sanach, who have our two municipalities that have looked into this a little bit further.

I will also reach out to our counterparts at the CRD.

So leave it with us and we will report back to council as soon as we can.

So we got a motion on the table we haven't voted on, and that's to refer the issue of prohibiting renewable natural gas to staff.

All in favor?

Any opposed?

Seeing none opposed, motion carries.

Thanks, Leanne.

And I think we've got uh where those were received.

Um the CDAC uh sorry, let's um can I get a motion to receive the CDAC committee?

Or do I thought we already did that?

Uh no, we no we oh that was a pre-act yeah uh motion to receive the minutes for uh CDAC of September 26, 2023, please.

I move the received of both PRAC um PREC and CDAC minutes of September 26th.

Both of them.

Yeah.

Um John, did you want to speak to this one that uh was the uh the roles and the mandate?

Uh well could we just clear the uh receipt of minutes?

We got a second.

Uh all in favor.

Any opposed?

Seeing none opposed, motion carries for the receipt of the minutes for CDAC and PREAC.

So speaking to um um, I was not um my regrets I was not able to attend the September 26th of CDAC, and I know that they had quite the discussion amongst themselves about um its uh role and mandate and and uh the the hence the uh the motion before us.

Um uh i i would agree with staff uh that uh this should be received at this time.

It's um this is not just CDAC.

Uh while I appreciate they've taken the initiative, uh this is really something that um should be an an item if you like in our strategic plan um about um uh council or staff council um sorting out uh the the structure and mandate of the advisory committees and um and we need to clear that ourselves um before the committees take this on we should be referring in material and and a course of action to them rather than vice versa so uh and i would also want to hear from um priak what their thoughts are and i'd like to hear from any other uh citizen members that wish to join other committees so there's uh it's a broader uh initiative um you know sparked if you like by CDAC but um I think involves uh a lot more other folks so I move received Council McKenzie I think you seconded that kind of ish did you have a comment um just to say yeah I agree I I don't want um CDAC to feel like they're um being put on like this motion is being pushed down the line but I do th agree that it is something that I would also want pre ac to be uh involved in because to make sure that mandates don't overlap or things like that.

So um yeah, I'm happy with what uh councillor Rogers said.

Thank you, Council McKenzie.

Counselor Brown.

No, I was just gonna I was gonna second it, but that's fine.

I'm gonna vote forward.

Yeah, I think this is part of a larger discussion that we should have on um on committees engagement, their role.

And I appreciate that their timing is also coming up for normally we go through a process in November uh for selecting uh new committee members that would start uh at the at the end of or at the beginning of the new year.

Um so yeah, I'm uh the the uh motion on the floor is referred to um um is to receive, and that we're going to uh provide some direction once the advisory committee structure mandate uh is considered, which maybe we'll have staff uh bring to the next council of the whole for October um that we could uh rejuvenate that discussion.

So all in favor, motion to receive.

Any opposed, seeing none opposed, motion carries.

And uh I think that covers everything uh for item C8C.

Uh for correspondence, this might take a little bit of an explanation.

Uh so we've got a for action there, and what has occurred is the board of CRD directors have voted to increase their capacity to assemble land for the purpose of building affordable housing.

That has implications of increasing the taxation to increase the amount that they're allowed to gather money to assemble properties.

So as you can see in the letter from uh CRD staff, that the implications for that are up to a maximum that would affect our property value rate of uh uh requisitional increase result estimated tax increase to a maximum of twenty six dollars for the average household for the next tax season um initially I was opposed to any increase that makes affordable housing less affordable for people that are actually paying taxes um and uh this isn't to say that we're not building uh affordable housing through the CRD this is to increase the capacity uh to deliver the same so uh the the recommendation that that staff has uh put for us is uh consider consent for the adoption of a bylaw because within this uh we need 13 um uh of all 13 uh two-thirds of the participants um uh councils the 13 member municipalities and electoral districts in three areas to uh provide consent for this uh so happy to open it up to uh discussion uh council rogers yeah uh i i appreciate where uh the crd and and um staff are are coming from on this and um certainly i i have no problems amending the um um the the the levy i think is the levy portion that they're they're increasing.

I don't have any problems with that.

I think um uh the current uh rate of um for the regional housing trust fund is um has not kept up with inflation and the cost of the buildings and and land and so forth.

So I think that's a reasonable point.

My concern is um uh in in reading through this, and it's really extremely complex, um, with it significant implications to um to the region.

Um but the the key focus it seems that was resonated with me is that um uh the province in the CRD has great interest in uh acquiring land masses and and land banking.

Um and this this reminds me of Vancouver and their land banking along the rapid transit corridors, you know, where they have acquired these lands and and uh put those densities along there.

Now, if um uh uh with Vancouver, I think they were doing this land, um, acquiring the lands and then selling to developers.

Here, I think their the intent is to acquire the lands and then uh develop you know housing um through agencies and so forth.

My concern is that um if they are intent in acquiring lands next to uh rapid transit corridors, that means a significant portion of your oil is could be potential lands that the CRD would buy.

Let's just say take for sake of argument that uh maybe uh around the um I don't know, let's see the possible transit handed art or mobility hub that uh they buy the lands and uh put the CRD housing on top of a parking lot.

Um the the concern I have, and maybe staff can help me with this, but if if it's a CRD owned building that uh for affordable housing, would this not be the same situation um uh initiative that the CRD undertook for housing at Theus Lake?

That's my question to staff if uh perhaps we could I believe so.

Yeah.

And and the um question again to to staff, um, are we able to obtain any taxes from those CRD buildings at Theus Lake?

Properties that are owned by the CRD are exempt from taxes.

I was leading the witness in that regard.

Um so you see that that's my concern.

If um we have the handy dart that has acquired lands for a regional purpose without taxation, we have a uh the conversion of a youth detention center uh for a great purpose without taxation.

Um and if then if the CRD is looking to acquire uh lands adjacent to rapid transit corridors, buses by or trains or otherwise, um then uh we could be again in a situation where and I think you know we also have uh the aspects of Theus Cove.

So our um this this is why I'm really hesitant to uh support this uh because uh CRD has not clarified what the implications are of you know acquiring land masses wherever and where they're not being the uh taxation benefits to the municipalities affected that's my thoughts right now I'd I'd be interested in hear from colleagues thank you councilor rogers uh anyone else counselor Brown.

Yeah, I I concur with Councillor Rogers.

It's just, yeah.

The more it's great to have the the uh low cost or co-op housing, whatever they want to put in, but um we're not getting the the tax benefit from it.

And it's uh yeah.

Yeah, and we are going to be uh hit substantially, I think, the town of Uroyal.

So um I'm not very happy with this either.

Council McKenzie.

So I'm uh all for affordable housing, of course.

Uh, but I do think if we take the perspective of probably many current residents, they they feel they're taking on this additional amount in this already hard economy um for future residents, potentially.

So um I could see a lot of uh residents not being happy with this, and so i i'm not right now i'm not um approving of this um i do have a question for staff it are are there other alternatives for instance if we had a development and could we set aside or require the developer to have a a couple units that they then give to CRD is that a possibility like is there another way rather than this increase in taxation because I feel like there's no end to this in year every however many times they um update these numbers.

It's just going to increase, increase, increase.

And if there's a different way to do it, I'd like to explore that.

I see Leanne came off mute.

So through the mayor, I can't look answer that question.

The CRD has in the past secured some housing units in private developments.

I I did work on one when I in my previous role.

They are currently looking at that though, because from an administrative perspective, acquiring one or two units in different buildings becomes a bit of a administrative nightmare.

And so I think I'm not, I know they're reviewing that approach.

I'm not quite sure where they are at the moment.

And so I could I can look into that for council and report back.

That's all I can really say about that.

Okay, thank you.

And I guess on that note, do we have uh a deadline uh by which we have to make this decision?

And I believe uh it's two-thirds of municipalities uh need to approve this for it to pass.

Yeah.

Yeah, and that's October 30th that we need to um have our response back to the okay.

I would like additional information.

That's um Councillor Rogers said the the information was a bit complex in what we were provided.

Um so I personally would would like some information from staff before uh making a decision on it, but uh the to be clear though, and Leanne, you can correct me if I'm wrong, the CRD's current method of land assembly would not prohibit them from doing this even if it was this wasn't approved.

Right?

So they're already assembling land and building it.

What this is is increasing their limit to purchase more land to do that.

So, you know, I uh although I'm I'm sympathetic with the argument of well, they could do it here or there, they can do it now.

Right?

Um it's just that they don't have the amount of capital that would allow them to get more land where or um some land because all of the land has gone up in price.

So I I don't think this is talking about their way that they could um you know assemble land but the assembly of land would still I believe go through council for approval uh for whatever it was they were proposing to build anyway, wouldn't it, Lilian?

Mr.

Mayor, yes.

Uh that is my understanding.

So it wouldn't be carte blanche, they'd all of a sudden, you know, be building whatever without it going through council anyway.

So this is to isolate it, this is really about uh the only new thing here is the money.

It would be still have to come through for our approvals.

They can do everything that they're doing now with assembling land.

And and that's like $26 for the average household of the average price of things.

And hear you on concern uh for increasing costs to make it less affordable for everybody uh across the board.

Any other comments ready to have a vote or do we want to want me one make more comments?

Yeah maybe a comment a question um staff somehow i um and again just because of the complexity of the the information here but somehow i had the impression that um the the bylaws that they were putting forward uh did give them extra powers um to uh and acquire land masses land banking uh i think there was um and no it wasn't just the money but they were also changing um some of the uh the the if you like the the methodologies in the bylaw to enabling, if you like um um for land acquisitions.

And you know, you know, if it's just the money, that's one thing.

But if they're uh enabling, and I and it's almost like I I there seems to be two levels of taxes here um that the CRD should own up on.

Um I guess this is a philosophical thing, but if if um they're going to want affordable housing, um that's fine.

But the affordable housing um where the rest of the taxpayers in that municipality are faced with the carrying costs.

And so I think that the CRD need is has gone halfway here.

Um, and um that the CRD should be also coming um um to to the realization that they should be um uh for their tenants, like we would not allow a developer to come in and build a building and and um and not have to pay taxes.

So this is uh the whole aspect of you know protective services.

We know how much the increasing cost of protective services is coming along, but um that all that and and again it's theoretical, but it it is an aspect where um CRD is not paying and their tenants are not paying.

So that's where I have a philosophical problem.

Thank you, Councillor Rogers.

So I think we got a motion, uh, mover and a seconder.

Uh yeah, counselor quellin.

I'm wondering, uh certainly you're a representative, uh, your worship for the Capitol Regional District Board.

I'm wondering if consideration has been given to the fact that uh this program or uh endeavor has been uh in progress for some time, uh, given the recent announcement from the provincial government about uh housing targets, uh how uh certain communities shall build them, uh two of them being in the CRD, the largest uh municipalities in the CRD, uh, and probably more to come.

I'm wondering if that has been considered or discussed, and maybe you know, or uh potentially that could cause uh concern for all municipalities uh with this program moving forward.

Yeah, no, it's a great question, timely tied to this.

Um obviously, uh, if you watch the news, the first round of uh the naughty list numbers and quotas have been uh already prescribed.

Um I've yet to get a lot of information back from those municipalities because I understand that there's non disclosure agreements associated with them.

So I haven't been able to figure out such questions like um does that hard target number uh to be constructed in the last five years, uh, does that include the things already approved by council?

Um I don't know that I don't know if they are approving things that already are under construction.

Um in linking that with this initiative here, could that then mean uh normally CRD will go in with a partner, right, for construction and funding for that construction?

Sometimes it's uh the federal or provincial government, depending on the the funding source for the actual construction.

Um so could this separated from it mean uh more likely for affordable housing of what type?

Um uh it's a possibility.

Would it have any effect directly?

Maybe, depending on whether that land assembly was in Bureau.

Um, and and certainly nothing's for certain.

Uh the issue of affordable housing uh and and building it is plaguing just about all of our municipalities.

Um Montreal has had a policy in place that required all builders to build affordable housing for the past decade.

They've achieved zero affordable housing being built.

Developers would rather pay off and uh pay up front than build affordable housing.

I don't know why, uh, but it seems to be a thing that is very difficult to get developers to to build on their own.

The CRD, to Leanne's point, has a whole housing section.

And then who's going to manage it?

That's all that they do is provide that type of housing and housing resource for folks in need.

Legislature coming down as well that we'll know in the next six months about what our housing targets are and how that does.

If you'll notice on some of their spreadsheets, it actually has affordable housing.

I don't know if this would fit in with that group uh uh of housing.

And so there's a lot that I don't know about it.

But I think if it was, it would be the CRD has a program to do exactly what this is proposing now.

This is the uplift for doing more of what they're doing now, primarily because of the price of real estate has gone through the roof.

Um, so that that's what I know.

I don't know if I answered your question or tactfully danced around it, but there's a lot of things that we don't know about the legislation.

And I understand that anything in your OCP uh could be approved by staff.

That's one of the things on the legislation with no public comment period whatsoever.

So if it's in your OCP, it could automatically go straight through approval.

Um, so all of these combined effects.

I'm a little I don't know until we I I guess see the targets and meet with them.

Uh I will try to have more discussions with some of the folks that have had housing targets implemented, and hopefully they'll will know more over time.

But I'm sorry I don't have all of the answers, including uh municipal affairs.

I guess all of their staff have moved now to housing.

So uh they had two people uh left in municipal affairs that I could talk to, and that was it.

Uh councilor Brown, it's just just based on what I've seen and heard from the the targets.

You know if it goes the same way for us when we were on the next list, which I assume we will be, the the the the number, the raw number, I don't think is going to be a problem at all.

But it is going to be a problem to reach the percentage they want of below market housing.

So if this is if that I I think most of it is targeted towards low cost co-op type housing and that's included in a percentage well then it's kind of a no-brainer to to use for them to go ahead and do that.

I think it may get us off off the hook, even though I know it's a five year period and everything else.

But um because it really I don't I don't think we have any developments going on right now for for so nothing.

So uh we're gonna have to make some moves and this could be the way around it.

So we're at zero now.

Thank you, Council Roger.

Yeah the interesting thing with the with the province is um you know their targets at least they're going to be built and at least they'll be taxable so the province the the provinces you know when they they say you you should increase the numbers and those are still going to be taxable dwellings complexes.

Uh our number could be increased so just uh from my understanding land correct me if I'm wrong but uh whether we approve or or not approve the CRD request CRD could assemble land and and build affordable housing that would contribute to that overall number that we would not get revenue from for tax i yeah right and and I agree with the I agree with the CRD I'm teasing the two apart so the provincial numbers that they would have um you know that they're requesting the uh Santa Victoria and and Oak Bay um are demanding of that they have to increase their number of housing units but those increased housing units are taxable these these individuals that will be paying taxes moving in because that's the province the CRD is another story but you know, um to uh an interesting point.

Um if the CRD is building affordable units, um then that that might be, as you say, a benefit.

Uh you wish we have uh 30 days, maybe 28.

Um I'm wondering if um it's worthwhile to have uh CRD staff come and answer a few questions on this before we uh take a vote.

Uh do we have another council meeting planned for October that that could occur, uh Kim?

Yes, we do.

The 17th of October.

And um I I don't know for CRD, let's have some specific questions.

Like uh this is a pretty comprehensive report, and I realize it's a lot of reading, but aside from separating what the province is doing and what CRD is asking for, is they're asking for an uplift in in their amount to assemble land right so that that's what this this is about there's not about any speculation about where it's going to be or any change to anything else so if we invite staff here i i would like to give them a reason that's not in this report that they could speak to or if we want to table it i'm happy with that too counselor rogers but i think there's i want to make it clear about what what what are we going to ask them for whether that's information okay council macken well what i would like to know is that if we don't approve this and they don't get approval from the other municipalities what what is their second option i i kind of feel like this is the easy route is getting municipalities to pay up so i think asking them okay if we don't pay up what what are you gonna do like what are the alternatives to this and i think there are some but they're just gonna be harder for them and and uh the the CRD has a plan right for constructing new affordable housing what they're hoping to do here is accelerate it there was one proposal that came through that that was similar to this that wanted to increase the amount that would increase our taxes that would would acquire more no land.

But um, you know, to Consul Rogers' point about the questions, it wasn't really a plan.

It wasn't like we need this money to buy that piece of land, it's just to increase the amount of money should those lands become available, then they would uh do it.

From what I've seen so far, and and in honesty here, and I'm not suggesting that there isn't a lack of affordable housing, which there is, we have not even fully developed to my the best of my knowledge, the CRD lands that we've already acquired.

Right.

So, what impact would this have on the CRD if we voted against it and other um municipalities did the same?

It would be that they just couldn't acquire that much more land.

Um, you know, that they're they don't have a plan to build on.

So that that's the implication I see out of this right now.

So I'd be happy to support this either way, folks.

We could ask more questions, but I don't, I think it's it we'd be asking more of it than the simple thing that this is really about.

This is an increase in taxes to acquire more land.

Um we can ask all kinds of other questions around it, but I don't think it's really related to this.

And that the simple ask is um they want approval from this council to borrow more money um uh in order or to to have more money to purchase land assembly.

Council McKenzie.

I mean I I would be tempted to um postpone it to the next one only because I think a lot of people who might not have understood a lot of the public who might not have understood the full implications um uh just by reading it, they might now have a better understanding, or between now and the next council meeting might and be able to feed into this a little bit more because I know a few people read it and didn't know what it was really saying.

So you're moving to table to the next council meeting.

Do we have a second here?

Second.

Seconded by Councillor Rogers?

Um any other comments?

Any opposed?

All in favor of tabling this next council meeting?

And this would be for the for uh the purpose of inviting staff.

I'm sure the CRD would more be more than happy to come and address questions if uh they thought they could uh convince us to go ahead.

Sure, we can put that request to staff for availability at that um time for the CRD to uh to come and speak to it.

Thank you.

So uh unless somebody wants to tease one of these out, most of these are around uh the Irkskin Lane round boat.

Can I get uh a motion to receive, or would somebody want to discuss?

Counselor Brown?

Uh uh seconded for discussion.

Uh Councilor Brown, do you want to start it off?

Yeah, I had uh at least five different people approach me over the weekend, and I was quite quite surprised.

They're they're quite choked that there isn't going to be a roundabout there.

I tried tried to explain to them as best as I could.

Uh, you know, like the engineering of it is really complicated, and uh they were more upset about having another stoplight call.

I didn't want to get into argument with them.

But anyways, um, yeah.

There there's a lot of people that aren't very happy about it, but uh, we've already made our decision, and I think we should stick with that and and carry on.

Yeah, um, I I too have received a number of calls.

And I I guess uh one of the things that's uh made them a little nervous, and maybe uh staff can help me out on this, is that it was it was a developer that has gone to these individuals and told them it's not happening.

And um, I think when when staff went through the rationale with us, it um you know it be it became we had a good discussion, it became clear.

And um the I think residents are are uh dubious, uh suspicious, uh, when a developer tells them that uh what they want they can't have.

Um and I I I would have hoped that um you know staff could have been there to be more convincing and and more objective and and um and let them know that we we did try you know 10 different versions without um you know success and each one of them had a um a safety aspect either for for cars pedestrians or cyclists and I think that uh whether or not West Urban was able to convey that as was well as staff conveyed to us um I think um has maybe increased the suspicion level and made them um bitter and and unhappy.

Uh now just uh if I may, um I'd like to hear from staff, but uh the key point um back then was um there was a petition from Erskine Lane and Stormridge that they needed a crosswalk.

They needed to be able to cross walk just for a variety of reasons.

Uh to the gallop and Goose or for buses.

And um staff made it really clear that that was going to be uh a really unsafe aspect uh just for the crosswalk, and uh so that's when we came around with the uh to the roundabout.

Um and and I guess now um what the residents want to hear from not from West Urban, but from staff, that um the design of this uh traffic uh intersection will have um will address all their issues about um you know being able to turn uh the the their they are in fear, um especially at erskine Lane, that they could have in the mornings the two hours, 133 cars piled up and down their street uh without any other way of getting out and and um so those are that's where um i think um the staff have uh the skill sets to uh set their minds at ease and and help them like they like staff has helped us so thank you um and i think you directed a question to ivan was there a specific action aside from getting a sa staff res response you're looking for counselor rudd so uh our staff are you going door to door mayor to bias, no, we're not going door to door.

Um, I will comment though, and I appreciate the the uh the anecdote provided by council rogers.

Um, yeah the the reason why the uh West urban, the developer um went to the public, it's part of the requirements under uh the public hearing requirements.

So they're supposed to go out and or it's recommended that they uh field comments from the surrounding community themselves as part of their uh public hearing.

And staff usually are not part of it at that time.

Uh with respect to um yeah, the technical components of engineering um cues and queue times and that, um, staff can certainly um provide an explanation, um, especially as part of the public hearing process, uh, should they come in.

Uh the applicant is was or is required to submit a updated traffic impact assessment um based on the traffic signals, but generally speaking, I think the uh 14 Erskine, which was one of the driveways, is about 160 meters away from the intersection.

And the queues uh based on analysis was well short of that.

I mean, factor of 10.

So uh at this point, staff don't have concerns with respect to the queues going um that far back.

Uh that's based on peak times, peak AM and PM, um, for regular uh traffic yeah um and I think what counselor Rogers was getting at and what I was hoping you're gonna say is that we have done our due diligence and that that traffic oval earth circle would be not able to work or fit there I think that's uh from a staff's independent perspective yeah uh thanks for that Samaria Tobias so staff went through uh quite a vigorous review with the applicant um I will say as a fact that's the initial uh submittal to staff on why it won't fit was um it was not sufficient for staff we've actually gone back and forth with the developer a couple of times um I would say I was a little disappointed with their initial provisions.

And it almost got to a point where I told them that if it didn't um give me what I needed, I'd pull it from the last uh community of the whole.

So they did provide what they need for me at the end of the day.

Basically, what they need to provide was be uh basically evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that the roundabout could not be done without uh encroaching onto private property, which was the case.

Um along the Stone Ridge residence, where the land is a lot lower, uh, there would have been significant retaining walls there.

And all retaining walls generally have a batter.

What a batter means is that it's not directly vertical.

It has to go out a certain amount.

And notwithstanding the existing retaining structures that are there made it challenging.

But the the geotechnical engineer at the time um they did provide um their developers advice on the type of wall to be done there, and uh uh the town of staff reviewed that as well.

And probably after I'd say you know at least 40 hours of staff time, we uh we reviewed it and it was it was proven beyond a reasonable doubt that it wouldn't fit.

And that was what the Oval Roundabout, the origin the original roundabout wouldn't have fit at all either.

Thank you.

Ivan Council McKinsey.

So I I think what might be helpful to those people of the residents that are concerned is that I I believe there's at least two other examples of similar configurations in the town where I don't think there is a problem.

Um so for instance, I'm thinking Glentana is a dead end street, fair quite populated, also has commercial entry onto the road, and that has a light as opposed to a roundabout onto a very busy road, which Admirals.

And there doesn't seem to be any issues there.

Similarly with Shoreline, another dead end road school quite populated with Christie Point.

So unless like is there something that makes um this Erskine Lane, much different?

I know it has it's very densely populated, but um is there anything else that might kind of make it more so that there might be a lineup of cars?

Uh Meritobiasan, thanks for the question, Castle Mackenzie.

Um so you know I'd be generalizing, I can certainly comment that the the amount of traffic going through Erskine can be similar to others in the region.

Um the biggest kind of uh like hill to go over when it comes to understanding traffic is that when um like 500 doors come in for development in a road, it doesn't necessarily mean that we're gonna have 500 vehicles coming out at the same time.

Um they basically, the transportation engineer uses best management practices under ITE guidelines for trip generation.

And that basically forms the foundation of traffic going in and out during peak AM and peak PM.

So that's a long and complicated complicated way of saying that the transportation engineers use best practices to determine evidence findings as to how many vehicles are estimated to come out at the same time during peak AM and peak PM.

And based on those numbers, they're able to come up with uh what they call opening day, which is um like if the development was open today, what the impact would be.

They're also able to project um through OCP and that's what the 10-year model would be as well.

And based on the findings that we've had in the traffic impact assessment provided, which would be also be provided as part of the uh the public hearing, um so far it shows that the queuing and the timing is uh not as significant as what's shown in the correspondence.

And before we go to Councilor Rogers, I think one of the real issues was that there was a kind of a petition and a lot of public support or a roundabout.

So um finding this out just about the time when they would build a roundabout, I don't think was met favorably with the residents who probably felt a lot of pressure from the development and whatnot.

And maybe there's some other things we can do aside from a light to help alleviate some of those concerns.

But uh, unless there's somebody else going back to call Council Rogers second time.

Um I I think what would uh really help um the the uh first off, there is going to be a public hearing, right?

And um in advance of that, uh I think one of the things they they need to see is the details.

They want to understand that this traffic, what this traffic lights design is going to look like, how it's going to connect into their portions, how it connects into a finished Erskine lane, um, you know, with the bike lane and the sidewalks on both sides, so they can see the whole full package.

I I think that would be very reassuring.

I think the residents also want gold plated traffic lights.

So they want to be able to anticipate that these traffic lights will last until 2035 when we get a lot more traffic on Watkins and and um you know so on and so forth uh and a full build out of of Erskine Lane.

Um so they're concerned about left-turn uh advances and and so on um clearly I uh you know what convinces me that a roundabout won't work is because uh it put pedestrians at risk the the designs that you offered and uh so I I think that needs to be conveyed so and and an interesting point with Glantana because the one in is the difference between road widths.

You can park in Glantana, you cannot park on Erskine Lane.

It's it's a it's a lane, not a road.

And uh so those those are the constraints that and staff can current correct me if I'm wrong.

So that's what uh the the composite uh factors there that they're they're struggling with is um where do I park, how do I get out, and uh all all on a hill, hopefully with no snow.

And but the one thing nice about Glantana, there's a fire access onto the island highway.

You yeah, you got a silver bullet, they don't.

Okay.

So um yeah, we got a motion to receive.

We got a um uh mover and a seconder.

All in favor to receive A2D for 92.

Any opposed?

Seeing none opposed, motion carries that brings us down to bylaws fees and charges amendment bylaw 1123 uh bylaw notification should i turn it over to staff anybody want to speak to it i see nobody so i'll just go speaking myself because i'd like to hear my own voice um so i think we we already was introduced uh this at the last uh reading uh or the last uh council the whole so this is to um for the first second and third reading that the bylaw uh amend business license fees uh within fees and changes charges by law for cannabis retail store and if you'll remember correctly i think it brings our fees in line with uh some of the other municipalities where we could have been um a little bit higher can i get a mover and a seconder for uh the change to the uh bylaw 1123 moved by councillor brown can i get a second or before we discuss so yeah are we there's item one, which is a staff recommendation.

That's correct.

Okay, so are we moving staff recommendation?

Is that that's correct?

Okay.

Yeah, second.

Second uh discussion mover.

Yeah, I think there was uh the the fees for the cannabis.

That's uh yeah, we were the highest in all the region, and to me it made absolutely no sense to to be that way.

It's a it's another business.

Uh liquor stores were paying less than half.

So and they pay taxes, so to me it made no sense.

So I'm glad that we've decided to to to amend that.

Council McKenzie.

I have uh just a question for staff.

I think one of my concerns with this was whether now we'll have you know an influx of um these stores one after another, you know, but I I believe what I read is that they still have to there's a special permit that they require, and then do what kind of um decision making can we have at that point, like around whether we approve that permit or not.

Um with Mayor Jeff Chow here, senior planner.

Um the uh there are guidelines in place for first of all, rezoning is required to permit uh retail can cannabis retail stores.

So at this point, only one property is zoned for that use.

Uh so rezoning would have to happen, and there are guidelines for uh acceptable locations.

So for example, uh not close to schools, uh school sites is one of the criteria.

Okay, thank you.

Uh Council Brown.

Yeah, we have one business, and yeah, I suppose if it was um a hundred dollars, maybe we might get another one, but I doubt it.

The businesses are not doing well, the stocks are not doing well in cannabis retail, and all we're doing is by keeping it at the same rate, all we're doing is picking on one particular business.

And it's not fair if a liquor store hermit, it should be very similar to me.

I think we got a mover and a seconder.

Seeing none opposed.

So all in forward, uh all in favor of staff's recommendation.

Any post?

Uh number two is uh again uh bylaw for these um for first, second, and third reading.

So moved.

Uh moved by councillor Rogers.

Can I get a seconder?

Seconded by Councillor McKenzie because she was actually going for a button faster than you were.

Uh Councillor Brown, all in favor?

Any opposed?

None opposed.

Motion carries, and now we've got a building by law 1111 2023.

Um, and that's uh building code regulation of construction for adoption.

Seconded.

So moved by counselor rogers.

Can I get a seconder?

Seconded by counselor McKenzie.

Any motivation?

No motivation.

All in favor.

Any opposed?

Seeing none opposed, motion carries.

And fees and charges by law nine five eight.

Uh to amend the fees for uh charges by law number nine five eight twenty sixteen.

That's bylaw number one one one nine.

Move adoption.

Uh councilor Rogers moves adoption.

Seconder.

Seconded.

Seconded by Council McKenzie.

Motion carries.

All those in favor.

Any opposed?

Seeing none opposed.

And D, municipal ticket information bylaw number 643, 2007, amendment bylaw.

Um number one one two zero.

Can I get a mover?

Move by councillor Brown.

Seconded.

Seconded by Councilor McKenzie.

Discussion.

No discussion.

All those in favor?

Any opposed?

Seeing none opposed.

Motion carries.

Municipal officials, ademnification bylaw number 1121.

The bylaw to provide the indemnification of municipal officials of the town of View Royal.

Number 1121.

Move up.

Move by Councillor Rogers.

Secondary.

Secondary by Councillor McKenzie.

All those in favor?

Any opposed?

Seeing none opposed.

Motion carries.

Fees and charges bylaw number nine five eight 2016.

Amendment bylaw 1122.

A bylaw to amend the town of View Royal Sanitary Sewer rates and fees and charges by law number 958 2016.

By law number is 1122.

All those in or sorry can i get a mover i'll move it oh shaking things up uh council makenzie is moving second uh seconded by councillor rogers discussion counselor brown yeah i'll vote for it but i i truly wish it was included in the taxes rather than a separate charge and i know counselor madsen made the the point that perhaps it was to make our tax increase look less by charging a half separate fee uh a lot of people don't realize they have a a second bill.

They have to pay older people.

They come in here and they realize they haven't paid that.

And they and there's a there's a penalty for that for not paying it.

And to me, it should be i that's just my own opinion i'll vote for this, but i really do think it should be part of the taxes.

Thank you, Councillor Brown.

Any other comments?

All those in favor.

Any opposed?

Seeing none opposed.

Motion query carries.

Um business.

Seeing none, we could move to question period.

Carl, we got anybody lined up for question period.

We have no callers at this time.

Uh staff has set up a system for people to write in a question for counsel um because they wanted to make sure everybody had an opportunity to participate if they wanted to, but uh we haven't had anybody write in for it at this time.

Thanks, Carl.

That's uh ingenious.

Thank you very much for that uh so that does it for question periods motions and notices of motions we've got uh councillor brown uh appointment to capital West advisory uh committee I'm really glad that uh uh Mrs.

Essery was giving a presentation today that was very helpful uh that committee and uh I know Councilor McKenzie's been very active in that committee as well.

Um and they've done a lot of work I understand her some of her concerns particularly with um filling the the provisions of the new uh provincial law um I you know it's fine to have the the staff committee um and it's the um that com Marnie's committee now has decided to become a um uh a private group which is agreed I think that's awesome yeah I wish there was some way we could tie the two together uh whether it was a subcommittee or I'm sort of getting off topic here but the committee had a lady that's uh representative from Royal Roads she's a uh professor at Royal Roads um that did a report it's called municipal public engagement of people with disabilities advisory committees as a case study and she went to 26 different public bodies.

And I asked her specifically the question.

I said to her, um, are any of those bodies, do any of them have a committee structure that's only composed of staff?

And she said there was only one of 26, and that was a school board.

Um the three things that really jumped out from her report for me is one historically people with disabilities have been excluded from political decision making.

That's one.

There's increased interest in understanding how lived experience informs or can inform policy.

And the third is public engagement is an important component of local government operations.

And to me, the staff committee does not completely comply with the um new act.

So that's why I asked her.

I said, is there some way for council to we we can't really appoint anyone to to a private group uh but we could we could find possibly find a person from the town of view royal to be part of this staff committee and the other municipalities that are part of that they may want to do the same thing I think we're missing something we're truly missing something by not having that input from a person that has either a direct um uh you know accessibility issue or they look after someone that has an accessibility issue I think we're really missing a and to me it just doesn't just doesn't seem right so I my notice of motion was to to advertise and see if we could find someone to view royal to be part.

I call it a staff committee, but it it could just be a committee.

Or if there's some way we could make the the the new group that Marty's doing a as a subcommittee of that group.

I don't know if maybe Kim, you could help out if that's even a possibility.

Councilor Brown, I think we we didn't do a very good job at setting up reasonable expectations of governance as a council to begin with.

Right.

I I I mean it was uh new legislation that came out.

We got uh you finally appointed with Council McKenzie on an intermunicipal group.

I think there was synergy, savings made sense to get together as all the municipalities to do stuff.

Um and I don't think ICD was the right vehicle for it.

And I don't think the staff committee is the right vehicle for it.

And there doesn't seem to be a lot of synergy between the two right now to get it done.

Did you read staff's position on uh just on the back of your sheet there?

Uh so what they uh are proposing on doing is a timeline, and at the end of this, transitioning this community committee uh or transitioning the staff work to a uh community committee.

Um I think I kind of support that in absence of of anything else, and that that is in addition to what you're requesting here, that we actually get uh a person with accessibility challenges or disability issues appointed to a committee, and that committee um, you know, actually uh take place.

So uh that would include include uh everything in the timeline that that those folks got through.

I would have liked to see a more cooperative kind of way and using both the groups, and I don't think it's too late for that at all.

Um, but we didn't really set them up for success.

I can say that as well.

I mean, by getting you on the committee and and then the staff work that needed to be done, I feel bad about it that uh it's been a topic of the mayor's table for many months now.

Uh and there's great concern and we're wondering, you know, what to do, but we realize we have to be compliant with the legislation that I act D might not uh be the group to do it, but we've got to work with them to get it done and get it done right.

So I'm I'm open to suggestions and supportive of your motion, but I think that's where we're at.

Counselor Brown.

If that's if that's the intention for this staff committee to be uh a holding committee for lack of another term, and it's gonna transition into a true uh public participation.

I'm fine with that.

Um yeah, yeah, yeah.

And whether it's someone from the Idache committee or or not, doesn't really matter.

But even that committee, it's it's disappointing not to have a community member on that committee, on that society.

And that's up to them to to track someone down and put that one on on the committee because I think it's uh um they're they're losing something because we do have some local issues that come up we don't have a person on it.

But if that's the plan, if that's the transition I'll quit I'll happily withdraw my motion.

Well I think we're still going to need some folks on on committees.

Yes.

Right uh eventually so identifying uh some some people uh with uh uh accessibility challenges uh I think is is highly appropriate uh so I'm very much in support of it.

How that jives in with her overall governance uh is is the next step, right?

That that uh once the the hard work that the that the staffs are doing together to get this in place uh advances us a little bit.

Um I think we've got some much discussion to do about governance and committees, and uh probably that'll lead us into October and November because um yeah, we want to make sure that the committees are are well used and we need their voices and and participate in them.

So I'm I'm in support, uh Councillor Brown of your motion.

Councilor Roger.

Yeah, I I think two great two things uh really great happened tonight.

I just one is um uh Marty's presentation.

I'm really happy that uh that uh she came and and uh explained um uh um my first time in in actually meeting her, though I've I've seen the the products uh of of what they've been able to achieve over the years.

Um but yeah I'm pleased that they're going to a nonprofit.

I'm pleased that uh they're requesting that they have a space on our website, which I think is reasonable.

Um and I'm really pleased that um uh we've got her Marty's input on the um uh survey that's happening in January.

Now it appears that um there might be consideration just for an online survey, and um we've now clearly here, heard that uh to really hear uh and make the survey accessible to all, that the survey should be online, in person, by phone, so that we can reach out and ensure to get as as uh and give every opportunity, uh and that's what accessibility is all about, every opportunity for for input from those uh two, three thousand people that are out there that uh want to have a voice in in this.

So that's really excellent.

I'm really also uh encouraged by staff's last point, uh transitioning to a community committee.

That uh and this time we have a success of being partners with the West Shore and uh and a unified approach.

So I I think we're moving in the right direction.

Um and thank you uh both of you for helping this out.

And just just a quick point is the uh um well they took the vote, the 15 voting members to go to a society, it was unanimous vote, which was good.

So um yeah, I it it's still really important for the staff committee to to work as you not closely with them, but but to get receive input from the group.

Absolutely.

So we're in support of your I I I think uh motion for for uh getting another name.

But did you just wondering if you'd entertain um you know having a little bit of an editorial on your motion that you would have a uh not to the Capitol West, but just to the ex accessibility committee, because that may change in the future?

Uh yes, that would work.

Uh, but but again, we don't have the uh ability to to um set uh uh appoint some to that committee.

So that's a bit of an issue, but I think um you know I'm certainly willing to to help them uh recruit someone from the town of Ural.

I'm sure uh Counselor McKenzie would be willing to as well.

Um I do have one or two names in mind, and that may uh it would certainly appease them to a point and and get some valuable input as well.

So uh Councilor McKenzie.

Oh, I was just gonna say, so uh are you then changing the motion maybe to help recruit um to the new society that like a view royal member, correct?

Yeah, yeah, I think that I think that would work, especially with the idea that this the the staff committee will be a transitional committee with that understanding and I wonder then too because they're working on their terms of reference and things like that whether like we need to wait until then to do before recruiting uh sorry through the through the the chair no um we we could do it now um and yeah I've talked to Marnie a little bit about it but uh uh she's always welcomed people from other municipalities for sure so I think we did do we have a mover and a seconder or we think we're just in discussion there?

Uh okay, well I moved.

Obviously you moved it.

Do you have a seconder, Councillor McKenzie?

So I think it's re it's a new motion or a reworded motion, then what's written?

Yeah, we just said kind of committee because we don't know what that looks like.

That could look like a society if we have another like an IACD part two, it could be part of that.

So just to be a bit generic, I just uh recommended committee as opposed to the IACD or something.

Yes, that if we take that part out.

Yeah, not maybe not being specific.

Yeah, it's the term appointment.

Like you said, it's we can't appoint them.

So it's the yeah, to help recruitment to the yeah.

So I'll second a reworded one.

Uh all those in favor.

Any opposed?

So we we're assuming that um there a reworded motion is going to be available for staff?

Uh that we were just taking out uh any term for um like the Capitol West Accessibility Advisory Committee, uh and we're just putting um committee in there too because we don't know what the new one's gonna look like.

Staff, is that enough direction?

I'm I'm uh I'm sorry, I'm at a loss as to what exactly is the resolution that you just voted on.

Yeah, the resolution is to um add uh uh a community member, not a council member, um, to um the accessibility committee because we don't know what it's going to be called yet.

Uh that staff refers to, I think, uh as the um on the last line to transition from the staff group to an advisory committee.

Thank you.

So that we would advertise for that and just look for people in View Royal to that are uh members of the public to be on that.

Thank you, Kim.

Councilor Grant.

It's timely too, because we're going to be looking for uh committee members for other committees.

So I think it's very timely.

So we include that in that.

And I think we're now down to another notice of motion from Councillor McKenzie, demolition and deconstruction bylaw.

Thank you.

Uh so this is to kind of close the loop on a topic that we discussed back in May, which was we had a presentation from City of Victoria, and I actually went back and looked at the video today just to see where we ended up.

And the majority of council were in support of staff pursuing it, doing um a report on it.

And the question we had was mainly whether we have a number of homes that this would actually apply to.

So the date nineteen sixties was the the date um for the the wood that we discussed.

So I believe uh we just needed a motion to that extent, which we didn't do at the time.

Um so I'm making that motion now that staff prepare a report uh around what uh considerations around um introducing a demolition and deconstruction by law in the town of Beaver Royale.

Thank you, Councillor McKenzie.

We got a seconder.

Uh Councillor Brown, you've got uh seconded.

Um Councilor Rogers.

So when we're simply asking for staff uh report next steps.

Yeah, I'm fine with that.

Counselor Quelich.

Yes, not to be nitpicky.

But I will be.

Um I'm just I'm not uh kind of similar to count Councilor Rogers, I'm not crazy about the language of uh how um you're proposing for staff to prepare a port to move to next steps to adopt a demolition and deconstruction bylaw.

I feel like we're still in the exploratory stage uh and learning more about how that would look.

Yeah, just to clarify um your position, Councilor McKenzie, is this for staff to analyze and report back to us or actually create a byline sorry yes it is exploratory so to analyze and see whether it'd be worthwhile to if we have enough homes that it would be eligible for okay so you're getting back to your point that they didn't think the wood post 1960 would be valuable enough to do it so you're looking for a staff report for options for for yeah options and possible adoption of a and what that bilog would look like right in general terms but really we need to report first before we do anything else.

That's the main focus so we can make a decision, right?

Yeah.

Report.

Yeah so to Leanne, does that help?

We're doing a friendly amendment on the fly to counselor Mackenzie's motion.

So what what Councillor McKenzie is looking for is that the area of concern was that uh the feedback in the presentation was that um uh that would older or younger than nineteen sixty.

Um I wasn't even born in nineteen sixty, just from your information, Councilor Rogers.

Um that the that wouldn't be as valuable as uh as perhaps um uh you know would would we have any of that construction in View Royal?

Um I know my house was built in nineteen sixty four and it's still old for construction and it probably would be valuable.

So, Leanne, the question uh is uh is it doable for a staff to uh uh have a report generated on on our options looking at a um demolition and deconstruction bylaw, not to write one itself, but to to report on maybe those things like how many homes might be eligible for those things.

Um thank you for the question, Mary Tobias.

Um I mean it's definitely something that staff can look into.

It is gonna require a tremendous amount of work um to undertake this at this time.

Um it's not we uh are we'd have to sort of dig into looking at the ages of our housing stock.

I don't know if that information is readily available or we're gonna have to search through BC assessment.

Um I don't know if it's on certain roles, like I we would have to look into that.

Um reaching out to our colleagues in at the city of Victoria.

Uh they're they're only ones who have um such bylaw, and then and also um reaching out to the CRD.

So it is it is a project.

Um uh it it's not something that staff can come back to council or committee in November.

Um Development Services has several projects on the go right now, and uh it's just it should council wish to reprioritize some some projects, then happy to to look at that.

However, I I at this time I just can't commit to when we'll be able to come back to council, just given the current workload and the number of the projects that are on our plate.

And for council Mackenzie, does is this a rush priority or this could wait until new year?

Yeah, no, that not a rush on it.

And even if I guess in the report, if your report is that you're it could analyze how much work it would be to do this, because then council yeah might decide not to pursue it.

So maybe it's not um the number, like actually doing finding out that number, but the work, as you've just said, to determine that, and then we can make a decision on whether to go forward with it or not.

Thank you, Council McKenzie.

I think Kim has a word to say.

I wanted to remind council that the uh incorporation of the town of Uroil was the late 80s, and the records that um existed prior to then were in the possession of the CRD, and our ability will be enhanced or hampered by the degree to which those records are easily accessed and um complete.

Council McKenzie.

So yeah, I think that that would be great in like information to put in a report in the report.

And I'm also wondering to what extent we could use um React as well, because I don't think this, I think it might have stemmed from them originally, but I don't think it's gone back.

So maybe they could discuss and and determine, you know, how appropriate would be for the town to kind of undertake this this work as well.

I would like to know their perspective on it.

Okay, so what would we like to do with the motion?

Councilor Rudd.

Yeah, I I I think um I I was not aware that this was going to be uh such a significant amount of workload.

I just thought we would put a date in and uh leave it up to the uh applicants uh to do a title search on when the house was constructed, but then of course, what kind of remodeling occurred over if it was an 1840s house, how much remodeling was done to it.

So I appreciate the complexities in that regard.

Um I I think um uh just a staff report to give us uh considerations and implications um at this point would be um uh the best we could do and I do not want to uh take away from uh all the other important work that staff are doing right now.

Okay thanks Counselor Rogers Councillor McKenzie okay with that for a report back from uh probably you know uh Lianne when you can a a here's what it would take to do this thing.

Um you know it doesn't have to be at the next council meeting or or whatever as long as you can get back to us and say this is the order of magnitude.

It would probably sit somewhere and getting a temperature check of a medium priority ish to to at least see if it was doable.

Um and uh we'll look forward to your report if uh if uh there's no objections for councils.

All right, I think that brings us down to uh a closed meeting resolution.

And Kim, I'll read this out if you want.

Um there that there is a need to have a meeting closed to the public and persons other than the immediate members of council, officers, employees of the town, and those identified in section 912 of the community charter shall be excluded on the basis of section 91c labor and e land and i legal.

Uh can I get a motion to terminate the meeting, please?

No.

Moved by councilor rogers seconded by everyone uh all in favor any opposed seeing none opposed