Council Meeting

Going to call the council meeting to order.

And once again, this meeting is being held under the auspices of Ministerial Order M192 to the COVID-19 pandemic and the public health officers' orders prohibiting gatherings in excess of 50 people.

There will be opportunity for the public under public participation and question period.

At the appropriate time in the agenda, I will announce the last four digits of your phone number.

Ask you to mute the live webcast to avoid feedback.

Ask you to not use speaker phone to ensure sound quality, and ask that you unmute yourself by pressing star six.

The chat feature will be open as well during public participation and question period.

This meeting will be recorded.

By participating in the webcast, you are consenting to being recorded, and the recording will be available on the town's website for future access.

And just for public who is thinking of calling in, we do have two petitions and delegations.

So when the second one is winding down, which is the peninsula streams one, when that one is winding down, public participation does follow that immediately.

So that's the time that you would want to phone in to speak to anything else that's on the agenda tonight.

And so with that, can I get a motion to approve the agenda, please?

Second.

So moved by Councillor Mattson, seconded by Councillor Rogers.

All in favor.

Opposed, that's carried.

And then minutes from November 3rd.

No adoption.

Thank you.

Adoptions moved by Councillor Rogers, seconded by Councillor Kwalowich.

Any comments, corrections?

No?

They're all good.

All in favor.

Opposed, that's carried.

I don't have anything under Mayor's report, so we're gonna go right to Mr.

Daly and Ms.

Deble, I think it is from our place.

Welcome.

You there?

Hi, can you hear me now?

Yep, we sure can.

Hi.

Um, good evening, everyone.

Good evening, your worship and uh council.

Uh my name is Cheryl Deeble, and I'm the new director for the New Rhodes Therapeutic Recovery Center.

Um, that is uh part of our Place Society.

And I just want to thank you for asking New Roads for an update.

We were here by invitation to give an update, so we appreciate that a great deal.

I had sent forward a slide deck for uh this evening.

It's not intended to be my presentation though, but they will be playing it.

Um what it is is our two-year anniversary was on August, or sorry, October 24th, just last month.

And uh we created the slide deck to just give an overview of the development of the space at our not at not out our place, but at New Roads uh therapeutic recovery uh community, um, just to give an idea for folks like our donors and community members and yourselves, uh kind of what what has taken place over the course of the two years.

So my presentation tonight will talk a little bit about kind of the pieces of growth and development over the two years, but I'll also go into kind of what's happening for the center right now.

And then I'd like to give an overview of the areas that we're going to be focusing on going forward at the center.

So without further ado, I'll just start by giving you a bit of a history.

The New Roads is a recovery center for men with moderate to severe addictions issues as well as possible criminal justice issues and homelessness, or a combination of any of those three.

We have capacity for up to 50 men at any given time who are over the age of 19, primarily just for your information.

We tend to have men at the center who are in their mid-20s to mid-50s, sometimes a little bit younger and sometimes older, but that's the general age population.

Over the past two years we've been developing our program and we have been focusing on the concept as community as method.

So this is something often referred to as a therapeutic community model.

And what this means is that the men that live within the community are accountable to the community and accountable to one another within that community.

The residents themselves oversee much of the community's work.

For example, they have a structure of leadership that we call a hierarchy that provides oversight to many of the areas within the community.

So for things like the kitchen or the gardens or indoor work as well, those are pieces that the residents themselves have oversight on throughout their work within the hierarchy.

There are four phases within the program that the men progress through during the 9 to 24 months that they're there.

Phase one is what we call the orientation phase, and it's the phase where men come in and become more grounded within the program of the community and also disconnect from unhealthy community from outside when they arrive at the center.

So in orientation, they actually don't have any contact with the outside community, whether electronically or even visitation or what have you.

It's kind of that time where uh we ask for them to become grounded and disconnect from unhealthy um relationships and start to uh really focus on themselves and kind of the issues that brought them there.

And in phase two, usually after about six weeks, and again, that's flexible depending on the where each person is at, we call that the primary phase.

And that's when the men there start to explore the triggers and past issues that have kind of underpinned their drug misuse.

And the last two phases at the center for men are basically preparing them to re-enter into the greater society.

So in those phases, we start to work with them around employment, schooling, looking for accommodations during phase four as they leave the center, and just ensuring that they're going to be successful within the larger community as they reintegrate back into that community.

The other pieces that we offer throughout the time that men are at the center is that we have a counseling program that assists men in dealing with their underlying issues and triggers.

And those counselors work within the different phases that the men are working through throughout their stay there.

We also have an extensive medical support program to assist residents with ongoing medical needs, particularly those related to their substance abuse.

So we have nursing seven days a week for 12 hours a day, and we have a medical doctor two days a week.

Some of our residents are coming off of some significant substance abuse problems that may have occurred for many years and require a lot of medical support.

So we ensure that that's available for them.

In terms of what we've been developing in the footprint of the space, you'll see in the booklet lots of pictures around the gardens and things like that.

We've also developed a greenhouse most recently, and we're putting in a heater in the greenhouse that we can do growing throughout the year.

And a chicken coop actually is our most recent development, and we're just finishing that with a run.

And we're hoping to grow a lot more of our own vegetables and have chickens and such right on site.

Um again, this has been slow on developing over time, and we're going to continue this uh process into the coming year.

Um that's basically the programming to date that we've been really focusing on.

And then I came to the center just about six weeks ago and have been doing some uh work around reviewing assessing kind of what's working and what other areas we want to continue to further develop.

And so we've highlighted a few different areas that we want to look at in the coming months and and over the next year.

The first uh priority area is education.

We do not have a formal education program that we're offering to uh the men while they're at the the uh center at this point.

We did start to make some inroads um earlier this year, I think, through conversation with a couple uh different um points of contact in the education system.

But then when COVID came, I think some of that stuff um was uh um I guess uh paused.

And so I have restarted some conversations and I I spoke with uh District 63, which is Sanich, around a program called SIDES, which is the South Island District District uh our distance education program.

And basically it's the ability to run distance education programs, um, and that's what they do for different entities.

And so I've had a couple conversations with SIDES, and it looks like we're going to be able to start a relationship with them and a partnership around being able to provide our men at s on-site with a distance education program.

The other piece that we've developed recently is a um computer programming uh lab, uh, which we had not had before.

And so with the development of that, it will allow us to have a good ability to do distance learning.

About 50% of the men that we have presently have expressed an interest in doing like furthering their education.

So this is for them, it's a priority, and really we want to respond to what their priorities are.

The other piece of the educational program that we've been trying to work with in lineup is conversations with the Victoria Literacy Connection Program.

And if we get our program connected with the SIDES program and get connected with this distance learning, the Victoria Literacy Connection Program has said that they would be able to provide us volunteer tutors to help support the men.

This would be a really good program to get going, but ideally, when you're dealing with adult learners, face-to-face teaching is the best method because a lot of these guys have had a long pause in their school or educational background.

However, given COVID, this is probably the best method we can do for the time being and then see how it works and then kind of start to negotiate and figure that out as we go down the path and see if we can import supports as we need.

But we feel that the SIDES program is the best method at this point in terms of proceeding because we don't want to wait any longer for the education program.

The next area we want to focus on in the coming months and year is the transition support.

So that's in our phase three and four for guys that are reintegrating back into the general community.

We want to make sure that they're supported in the best way possible to do so.

So we recently hired a position called a community coordinator to work primarily with those guys in phase three and four.

And that particular position supports men in getting re-entered in the gradient community, including areas such as employment connections and education.

They also train and offer a RentSmart program where our guys can actually get certified in Rent Smart, and that happens right on site over the course of four sessions.

And that particular position also assists residents in accessing housing to help them have a smooth transition back into the greater community.

That could be housing on their own in their apartment or it could be second stage housing through different agencies within the community.

There's also a component of aftercare with that position.

So we want to ensure that when men leave the facility, that should they require some supports or even just someone to talk to from time to time that we have the ability to do that support for them.

We also encourage the men that leave our program after they graduate to come back into the program as an alumni if they want to and do some mentoring with the fellows that are still there.

We have a celebration once a month for people who are graduating the program as well as for men who are moving from one phase to the next where we recognize them, and we often will invite alumni to come to that celebration once a month.

And the last area that we're really focusing on in the coming months and years intakes and partnerships with referral sources.

There's a couple things going on with us for intakes.

I mentioned at the beginning of my presentation that we have room for up to 50 spaces and we have about 20 of them filled right now.

There's a few different reasons for that.

There's some some issues around we didn't have all of the infrastructure or beds uh fully developed on site.

We just finished uh the development of the second area of uh housing on site and then the other piece is um a lot of the treatment facilities within uh the island and southern area of the island are actually uh lower for intakes right now and we are working with uh partners in other areas and including island health around kind of what's going on with the treatment beds because other beds that are crisis beds are are full or overflow with weightless but the treatment longer term ones are not getting the same amount of intakes and um some of those are are related to COVID and I think also for our particular facility uh some of it's related to us are not necessarily reaching out and connecting with referral sources in a meaningful way.

So we've made a concerted effort um in this last month to start doing that and meeting with folks from probation, island health, including detox, all those kind of pieces where many of our referrals come from.

So we we've started that process for example, we'll be meeting with uh the five different areas of probation across the the island uh in the in the coming um two or three months uh we actually have a meeting tomorrow with with one of those groups.

So that's an area of focus is just um maintaining good relationships so it really will help us draw in the folks that we can best serve within uh the center itself.

And then I think the last piece I would just like to t uh say is I take the opportunity to thank uh View Royal um council um and your worship in terms of the support that you have given us throughout the last two years.

It's been very valuable to have that community support.

And if you have any other ways uh that we can enhance our relationship or connection to the community, uh please just let me know.

Um, and I think that's what I would say the update is from uh the New Roads uh TRC at present.

Um, and I would just take any questions that anyone has.

Okay, thank you very much.

Um I'm curious when when the center opened, it was going to be a peer-led program based on the San Patriano in Italy.

And and what I just described sort of sounds like we've we've gone off that course.

Is is that a fair statement, or are you still based on on a peer-led process?

Yeah.

Much of the internal, like I talked earlier about the hierarchy and talked about uh living as community as method, that is part of that peer led.

So there is a lot of peer leadership integrated into that hierarchy and structure, and they are um by and large accountable for large pieces of like um even uh the pictures that you see, for example, like if you see the pictures um in the booklet that you were sent and uh the outside uh grounds and that, um, by and large those are maintained by the men who live there.

And uh a lot of the kitchen stuff.

We have a chef, but um our men uh who live there do a lot of the kitchen uh cooking and learning skills and those kind of things.

One of the areas that we're gonna continue to develop though is uh the areas um around work as therapy and we have a little bit of that when you look at like uh the men who are learning the skills outside and then kitchen and those kind of things um but we can go a lot further with that and we'll be focusing on that as well um as we look at that kind of phase three and four skills for men.

So I guess my long answer to your question is that we've we've made a start on that but we have a ways to go yeah.

Okay thank you.

Council Hi, and thank you for your presentation.

Um I must say from the slideshow, the gardens are looking beautiful.

Many of us were were there at the beginning when the gardens were first um unveiled and uh they were new and and potentially beautiful and and I can see that they are truly beautiful now.

Um and I'm really pleased to see that um people are learning life skills um chickens and and cooking and and gardening and and uh and strengths that they can carry through the rest of their lives.

Uh I've just a question about the program and and perhaps I should know this, but I don't.

Um it's a four month program.

If someone is not ready to go or does not have a place to go to or a job to go to or a life to go to, do they go anyway?

No, it's a nine to twenty-four month program.

It is a long term.

No, oh nine to twenty-four.

Yeah, that's correct.

So most of the just to give you a little background on uh um uh therapeutic community models, because they're starting to become more and more um prevalent within North America.

They really had their roots more in Europe and such.

Um that's why people often refer to the model out of Italy.

But um, for example, uh Alberta is actually just contracting uh with therapeutic community models.

Uh last July, they made an announcement um about doing that to to uh purchase uh 400 beds, I believe, using eight nonprofit agencies to run those.

Now I don't know if they're proceeding given all the stuff that has happened since then.

Um but it it uh there are so many more and more places recognizing the need for that longer term treatment and that uh addictions aren't built in a day and they certainly won't be addressed in a short period of time.

So we're we have a very broad length of time now um in which uh men can can be there to address their issues.

And right now we do have a fellow who's been there uh almost a full two years.

Uh the next person after him is been there 18 months.

And then we have a variety like of other men who have been there like a year, and then some very short.

And we have some that come and we lose them right away.

And sometimes they come back and we're able to, you know, um to get them a little bit longer.

But um if you look at addictions research, it takes um more than several times before uh often someone will actually uh get rooted in that uh recovery process.

And we have one fellow this week coming back for the third time.

So it is longer than what you thought.

Right.

Good.

Thank you very much.

Good work.

Thank you so much.

Counselor Matson.

Thank you for your presentation on the good work.

Sorry about that.

Um so of the 20 people you currently have there, can you tell me what's the breakdown in each of the phases?

Oh I I I don't think I can do that.

I can I'll give you what I I would say is my best approximate.

Um that we got about half of those um men would be in phase uh one to two, and uh approximately the other half in three to four.

So they'd be a smattering on all of those.

Like I just talked to you guys about the fellow who's two years and the one who's eighteen months.

There's another fellow who's um uh just about oh no, he is a year in November and he's on uh phase three, he would go into phase four next, and another fellow who just went into phase three yesterday and another fellow who's in phase three and then and then a whole group of them that are in kind of that uh small or lower um uh growth levels.

Um so I I would say it's about half and half between the four different phases right now.

Okay.

And about how many alumni, how many people have successfully completed the program?

Uh right now it's been um it's either five or six.

But keeping in mind we've only been open two years in a program that we say takes twelve to twenty-four months.

Well originally it was twelve to twenty-four.

We now moved it back to nine because we do recognize people go through these at different rates and uh and different uh um I guess um have different levels in in in terms of uh when they come to us and levels of uh substance misuse and all those kind of things so uh we made it a little bit more flexible okay and and I was also sorry it's only it's it's it's in the last six months we're seeing those graduations now.

So um to me that's not necessarily surprising giving the length of the program it's going to take some time before you get to that end outcome.

Okay, thanks.

We also understood that I guess a number of the people there would be uh required to go there through the courts or the courts that you put them there.

And so I'm just wondering what sort of breakdown is would there be there.

Right now I have seven men who are still s currently on custody uh level order so they have conditions.

I have two more that came from uh the jail system but are no longer on conditions so they're there completely on their own choice and then the rest of them are uh from island health and or the community and do not have conditions of release.

So we have quite a blend and it's it's about fifty fifty when you think of it.

Okay and a last question, I'm not sure how fair this is, but you know, given the number of h homeless people we have who are sort of drug addicted, I the question would be you know there's potentially thirty more spaces there.

I d I just you know like you you can't how how do we get people who actually have drug addiction and are sitting on the streets into your program?

Yeah, no, and that's a great question.

It's not a it's yeah.

Um there's a few things I think that go on, and uh one is um there's there's uh been a lot of wait lists at the actual detox center downtown, but not a lot of wait lists for the uh treatment centers.

And I mentioned that earlier, how the treatment centers have come together and started to talk about well what's going on, right?

Some people are scared to go into community living when with COVID.

That's one factor.

Um when COVID had started, some professionals aren't seeing their clients in a face-to-face way anymore.

Like it's not client-facing as much as it used to be.

And I think that does result in less referrals at times to programs.

But clients are being seen at crisis situations because that's what's happening.

They escalate and then end up in a crisis program.

I also think for our program, we have not done a good enough job to go out there and be interfacing with the agencies that do the referrals to us.

And so we need to be doing um that in a different way and through relationship building.

So that's been one of my Paramount kind of goals um over the last uh month.

I've recognized that and now started to build kind of an infrastructure around how we create those relationships with those agencies and making sure that we get out there um and are top of mind around um like a facility that that they can refer to.

So I I there's multiple factors.

Okay.

Um and and we need to try and figure out the barriers to all of those factors.

Good.

Counselor Rogers.

Yes, thank you very much for coming.

It's uh it's really important for us to get this update.

I mean, in particular since it's uh been two years already.

Um any how many um how many staff, how many volunteers do you have there?

Uh volunteers right now are more minimal because of COVID.

Uh you will find that the volunteer uh sector uh through probably throughout the province and I came from Alberta just six weeks ago um and I had a program there with a lot of volunteers and we had to uh have them all um leave for a period of time and I have only started to slowly bring them back in.

Um so we don't have a lot of volunteers at this present time.

Um but we do we do have some still just we had just have to be a lot more careful and staffing we're running uh about twenty two staff interesting.

And um thank you, Riddle.

And that includes like our doctor, our nurses, uh frontline staff, um, our clinical staff, and uh my position and our uh like our support worker who does the um kind of outreach.

Yeah, that's every every possible position.

Okay, Deas, thank you very much.

Uh the um the individuals, um the the 20 that you have and and the 50, um do they just come from the Capran Regional District or could they come from the whole island?

Yeah, so especially it they can come from the whole island is a short answer, and especially like with probation and such, uh that's one of the things that um I am now reaching out to all the different probation areas within the island.

There's five different groups of management teams for probation.

So we're going um to meet with all of them.

Uh we had not done that before, and so uh it we should be getting referrals throughout the island and we and and even from health the same we could get referrals from anywhere on the island.

Yes and and I certainly agree with um your position counselor matchlin I think um yours is a significant uh contribution to um to recovery and and uh I hope um there's more um ability to uh fill in place with those that need it thank you yeah yeah good well thank you very much for coming and um I appreciate your time.

Oh, and maybe we can do it again and I don't know, you know, at least let let's not leave it more than a year for sure, because I think we're all interested in in hearing what's happening there and and how it's going.

And and when COVID is over, we can um come and meet you in person, hopefully, and see what's happening there.

But thank you.

It would be l yeah, lovely to have you come for a tour.

What's uh it's safe to do that to do so.

We would we would enjoy that a great deal.

Yeah, no, I'm sure I think we would all like to do that.

So we'll we'll plan on that.

Okay.

Take care, everyone.

And take care.

Okay, bye-bye.

So next up we have uh Mr.

Ian Bruce from the Peninsula Stream Society.

And for for public, if there's any public um wanting to phone in and under public participation, public participation happens right after this presentation.

Bruce.

So go ahead, Mr.

You're muted.

There you go.

Whoops.

Um hello everyone.

Uh thank you, um uh your worship and uh counselors for this opportunity.

I'm going to have to go back through my my uh slideshow and start it again.

So, um, anyway, thank you for the opportunity to come and talk about Portageillette Beach Nourishment Project.

I've met many of you before, or practically all of you.

Anyway, um, so I'm from Peninsula Stream Society.

Um, Peninsula Stream Society was formed in 2002 by five groups on the peninsula, and we're a registered charity.

And uh we have a lot of friends.

We're active all through Greater Victoria now, having started in the on the peninsula, and uh we have a lot of groups all over the place, and including now into the western communities.

So, in the 2020 projects, we've had uh the Millstream Fishway Project, of which um you generously donated for two years, once in the project development and then once in the construction year.

And I'd like to say that uh as of now the fishway is built, it's connected up.

We've had reports of fish actually using it, unconfirmed, and that uh it's on time and on budget.

So uh a very successful project, and thank you for your support.

You can see through some of the other um projects that we've had this year, including Swan Creek, Todd Creek, Lockside Meadow, and the Beach Initiative, which I'm gonna be talking about uh a little bit more.

And we do water quality around the peninsula and other places and environmental education programs, which were somewhat reduced this year because of COVID 19, but uh we've done workarounds and um worked out programs that can deal with social distancing with masks, etc.

So we uh every year we uh engage with about 2,500 hours of adult volunteer time, plus a lot of the children out working in the environment as well.

Uh we did have a marigold uh school class out doing a beach cleanup just before code COVID uh came about.

So, anyway, we started the beach uh initiative, which is the beach education and Conservation of Habitat uh initiative, because we realize that beaches are great for families, they're great for recreation, and they're a great habitat for all sorts of uh life.

And it's the transition between the land and the ocean.

So it's very, very important.

But as we all know, they're under threat from pollution, erosion, storm drains, uh, dog feces, and things like that, and sea level rise and climate related storm activity and backshore development.

So, what we wanted to do was to start this program to empower local citizens through supporting them with stewardship opportunities and leadership through education and training and help them get organized to look after their beaches and hopefully keep an eye out on things and help restore, conserve, and protect the beaches.

So we do some cleanup and we monitor and uh we look after the waterways.

So we do that by beach nourishment, which will be which is the focus of tonight's presentation, but also beach cleanups, forage fish egg surveys, and biological surveys and uh beach staining.

So uh the forage fish, forage fish are uh generally their small fish like surf smelt and sandlance or needlefish and herring.

Uh the first two, uh sandlance and surf smelt are beach spawners.

And we've had reports of them in Portage Inlet trying to find a place to spawn, as well as uh World Fisheries Trust is has has captured some surf spelt, and there's been other anecdotal um uh sightings of surf spelt over the years, as well as herring, of course, coming up to Portage Inlet.

So these are the locations where we're we're actively monitoring these beaches for forage fish surveys, and you can see the yellow uh marked beaches are the ones where uh we found uh surf spelt eggs.

So we're like the surf spelt capital of uh British Columbia, it appears, because although this is being uh conducted up on the central Vancouver Island and over to Howe Sound and Sunshine Coast, they find sandlands, and they're jealous that we have surf spelt and vice versa.

But uh we're still looking, and uh we're gonna be moving further out past Calwood to Machosen pretty soon.

So there you go, that's a surf smelt there and uh a sandlands.

So they're small, small, but not that small fish, but they're extremely important in the in the food chain.

What surf smelt do, and and what ford fish do, I should say, is they take the plankton and convert it into fish flesh that are then eaten by birds, by mammals, by fish, and all the way up the food chain to orcas.

So, foraged fish, if we lose forage fish out of the um the food chain, then we'll have a disconnect and we won't be able to transfer that energy up to the um apex predators.

So for forage fish big survey, you can see here we've got uh uh what looks like a little bowl, a blue bowl it's called, is the vortex method of separating the eggs from the sand.

Because these eggs are microscopic.

So this technique was developed uh in the States and it's utilizing actually gold panning, a gold mining uh uh equipment.

So uh it turns out it works well for foraged fish eggs.

And that's what we're looking for.

So you can see there on the left, there's uh uh an egg or an embryo inside the egg, and then uh empty egg, and then is that there's the embryo there.

So uh the we've been finding these surf spell eggs almost year-round here in Sydney.

Uh so beach nourishment.

So beach nourishment is a process of actually adding sediment to the beach, so sand and gravel to the beach to provide spawning habitat for these uh beach spawners, but also it helps protect the back shore by elevating the beach itself and uh provide providing protection against waves and sea level rise and storms.

So if you look at this uh diagram here, you can see uh what a normal sort of beach face tidal flat situation is on an eroding beach.

And the material on a beach is pretty well uh comes from the back shore.

It may come down for it from a creek, it may be moved along the shore, but many places, particularly pocket beaches, it comes solely from the back shore.

And if you uh if you armor that back shore, you've cut off the supply of sediment to the beach, and then the beach will be undernourished and will erode away.

Of course, with sea level rise and greater storm activity, these effects will be amplified.

So uh again, so this is the uh finer material is lost offshore, but pebbles and sand remained to create the beach.

So we're we've got a good track record on this on this beach nourishment.

We started in 2012, and it was a learning curve.

We started with 800 tons there, and then in 2015 we moved into about 2250 tons, and then phase three we brought in 4,000 tons, and that was in uh partnership with SACOM First Station and the Ministry of Transportation and Highways.

So you can see here on the 2011 um and then 2014 was prepping for the uh 2015 um uh dish to sediment.

You can see the the sandy gravel there, and then in 2018, um we brought in a lot more material, brought in 4,000 tons, and you can see it being uh transported down the beach by a uh off-road truck.

Um, and uh yeah, that's at the northern end of Pat Bay.

And that's what it looked like afterwards.

So if you look at the at the back shore, there's actually logs on it.

There's um uh a back shore area where plants developed, and um it's right at the rack line.

You'll see in a minute where the uh fish actually spawn.

So another project we were involved with was a beach nourishment project at Todd Inlet.

Wasn't so much for forage fish, but it was to replace some contaminated sediments that were on the beach from the old um uh Vancouver Portland Cement Company that which uh butchered gardens was their quarry.

So uh this was a project where we uh worked with uh Sea Change Marine Conservation Society, which is uh which is their this is their area, and we worked to help them project manage it and uh come up with a strategy.

In this case, the four thousand it was another 4,000 ton uh operation, and we brought in the material uh by barge.

And it and if you look at the bottom, that's the uh kind of the finished product of the beach.

So uh part of this is is it has to do with the green shore.

So uh Peninsula Streams has been involved with green shores for the last 15 years.

We've encouraged green shore um uh applications to waterfront areas, and there's an example of it where the after picture makes the uh the shore more resilient.

And I know you've actually got some green shores in uh View Royal.

I've seen it uh down by uh Shoreline uh middle school.

And so this is the way to go these days with uh beach material added and sloping back shores and native vegetation.

So now we'll get down to View Royal.

So uh if you look here, this is a portage inlet linear park, and there's a little pocket beach, a little tiny one that was made when the park went in.

You see there on the right.

And there's another picture of it.

And this is the little beach itself.

So this is one of the beaches we were proposing to remove the muck, basically, that's in the foreground and replace it with sand and gravel.

It'll be an amenity for people to launch their kayaks to sit on the beach, but it also function for uh back shore protection as well as uh potential forage fish spawning habitat.

Uh then hospital creek estuary is another location that's very close to it.

So we've paired these two projects, one on public land right in on in a park, and one in front of private property.

But the reason we picked Hospital Creek Beach is because of the severe erosion that's happening on the remnant estuary sediments that are there.

So here's another view of it.

So if if this is the hospital creek site, um to access this site, we would come through uh this property here.

Property owners agreed we would be able to do that, and we could track material right to the edge and then just distribute it along the beach and around the corner.

And this is the remnant estuary sediments.

We don't know how big it was, but it was significantly larger than that originally.

If we didn't go through this property, the other way we go through is that View Royal has a beach access that's uh road width that comes to the beach.

But uh it would be much better to do it in the summertime over that lawn to the beach.

That would be the access.

And that's what it looks like now.

So if you look um uh to the to the to the uh to the left, you'll see the estuary that's eroding what's left of it.

Um there's some issues with geese, which is which are probably uh the major impact on those uh sediments, but with bringing uh gravel and sand up to that level would protect what's remaining and um would also provide uh spawning habitat.

The the gravel that you see in the foreground foreground would not make good forage fish spawning habitat so this is an aerial view of the of the of the what we call the polygons where we would put the material and um we would uh have the material place it down there and move it around uh the beach you can see hospital creek coming in on the left all the property owners that are facing onto this area have um are supportive of the project I believe they've all written letters um of support to this, and they're prepared to help support it financially as well.

So to uh demonstrate um how the sediments would move, we put a little test patch of material.

This is some material I had left over from Pat Bay.

It was in my yard.

We moved it uh with pickup trucks and uh we put it in that uh frame of wood.

Now we're gonna remove that frame of wood probably in the next week or so and let the uh wind and the waves move that material around.

So what it'll do is give us an idea of what the drift is and which way the sediments will move, and it'll help better inform um the project moving forward in terms of of how that sediment would move and might inform how the uh blend of the sediment is uh constructed.

So that's my assistant Brian Cavell, and we did a um an elevation on that so that's a that's a test patch that will will inform us um a little bit more about the site when uh at the end of the winter so that's the presentation now uh for for today um i'm open for questions um from uh uh your worship and counsel okay thank you hi and this a uh a quick comment.

I'm getting some feedback.

Well, it're just somebody's not it's mind, not you.

Okay.

All right.

Um I'm i'm i'm confident that people living near um Hospital Creek will welcome this.

I know there's been some real real concerns about the loss of habitat and and uh reduction in species.

I've just a question about herring.

And you mentioned that herring fall into this this strata of um fish and go and that many, just like five to ten years ago on on the uh craigflower bridge, you there would be side by side by side fisher people for the the herring spawn and the or the the herring run, and uh you could just see them, you know, them into buckets, you know, nonstop.

And that seems to have ended.

There, you know, you you don't see people there anymore.

And so would this bring back any of the herring?

Or is there any hope of it?

Can't hear you.

You're you're muted, Ian.

There we go.

Um uh thank you for the question, Castor Lemon.

Um well, no, this this would deal with the other forage fish, the um the beach spawners.

Herring are spawners that will attach to vegetation, they'll attach to just about anything they they can get to, but they like to spawn onto something.

Um so it specifically wouldn't help the herring.

The the herring eye uh the herring um uh collapse.

We don't know why it is, but it's it's being looked at by um uh nonprofits like world fisheries trust there's a chance too that that with more forage fish juveniles and uh like larva in the plankton it might help the herring as well because they may feed on them i d I don't know all I know is that bringing fish back into the ecosystem will help the coho coming you know out of uh craigflour out of colquits um will this will help them uh the juveniles when they come out as well.

So it'll help salmon as well as it'll help um forage fish good thank you on my right elector Rogers.

Yeah, yeah.

Thank thank you very much, Ian.

And I do know that um uh this is one of uh several beaches that uh Peninsula Streams is looking at to uh revitalize uh use the beach project on and in with Esquamo City Victoria and Sandich.

Um good good presentation.

Um what impresses me is the you know how you have the blessings of DFO.

Um when we tried to do our shoreline access, uh we went through enormous amount of red tape.

But um my understanding is that is that DFO is supportive of this, with the understanding that it's uh bringing back um the ecology and and wildlife habitat.

Um I I don't think we've got time for it right now, but I would be looking forward to um uh getting a um when you come back under uh grants applications, um, the costing of of this project, um, knowing what uh funding sources um you have in mind, uh, both in terms of neighbors, um uh other benefactors and and matching funds in kind.

So um, you know that that's an important uh phase too, and and I look forward to that when you uh come back under the grants applications.

Good.

Well, thank you very much for coming and giving us the presentation.

It's all good um good information to have.

And and are you planning on filling out a grant application?

Is that your you're planning?

You're muted again.

Okay.

Uh just a couple things.

Uh I'd like to invite all of you down to the beach to see it.

And the property owners have said they'd be quite um uh willing to have you down there.

So I'm more than willing to to host a uh a walk and a talk for the the two little beach areas.

Um as far as the grants concerned, I mean the uh I did send a budget.

The amount that we'd be looking for would be in the range of $25,000 from um View Royal.

I don't know whether that's appropriate for the grant and aid and maybe more appropriate in the engineering budget, but um I'll leave that up to you.

We will be coming forward at least with the grant and aid if we don't hear otherwise.

Um, but again, uh, thank you for the opportunity to bring this forward.

Okay, urge you to reply to the question aid.

I think that's probably the best way to do it.

And um, I I'm sure we'd be happy to wander around down there so we could leave you to arrange that and um reach out to us by email.

Okay, thanks again, Ian.

So next we have public participation period.

So that's the opportunity for the public to speak to any item that is on our agenda tonight.

Staff, do we have any callers?

Yes, we do, your Rosehip.

Uh looks like we've got uh one with the last four digits, nine six eight nine.

Okay, thank you.

So caller with the last four digits of nine six eight nine.

This is your opportunity.

You need to press star six to unmute yourself and then give us your name and address, please.

And um, you can give us the benefit of your views.

Thank you, worshiping counsel.

My name is uh Tim Ankenman and the architect for Island Highway.

I'm just here to answer any questions you might have because I wasn't uh able to get through um in the last council meeting.

Oh, okay, great.

Well, you're on the agenda a little ways down.

Um I appreciate that.

I just wanted I I I I didn't mean to be on for this uh segment.

I just wanted to announce myself.

So if you do have any questions, that that's good so that you're here as a resource.

Thank you.

Staff, are there any other callers?

Not currently, Mayor Screach.

Okay, thank you.

And is there anyone on the chat feature?

Thank you, Mayor Screech.

We do not have any chat comments this evening.

Okay, thank you, staff, for both of those.

So I'm gonna close off public participation and we're gonna move right to 8.1A, which is the CRD housing temporary sign permit.

Do you want to stop at all staff?

I guess one of my questions is: have we engaged CRD on this and told them that your recommendation is a no?

We have we have um my well, my I I would couch that.

I'm just going to share my my screen here.

I would couch that with um the notion of I've I've made a recommendation to decline the specific sign as I as I you know based on the the the distance to the sign it's it's rather small um however I have provided a list of alternate recommendations that is um if council does wish to approve these signs that there be one sign rather than two signs and that it'd be much bigger and and that it can be read from the highway um with ease without trouble.

I know that some people uh driving by at that distance would have a hard time, especially reading the phone number.

And relating to my second alternate recommendation that the phone number be replaced by something such as DRD housing or something that would be much easier to remember, such that you're not writing down a phone number while you're driving by.

With the rental market these days, if it was posted online, I I I seriously doubt that it would take very long to fill those units.

However, if if a sign is is wanted, that my recommendation would really be to make it a single sign and to make it bigger.

Thank you.

I mean, with respect, I have to presume that the people that run the Capital Region Housing Corporation know what they need to do to fill a building.

And they certainly have it advertised online.

But there's there's a lot of apartments there to rent.

So I mean, I think if we can help them out, that we should be looking at some way to do that personally.

So what is council's pleasure?

Councillor Rogers?

Yes, I uh I I understand where staff's coming from, and and um and I I certainly had difficulty trying to draw remember a number and write it down as I'm driving.

Um maybe I could put it on my cell phone.

I'm kidding.

Um so it's um if we could have uh the sign that says rent now CRD housing, um then um that that probably would be an indication that it's available for rent and it's by the CRD housing.

Yeah, I mean I think you could put now renting um CRD or contact the CRD or something.

Yeah they would just draw attention to it.

Ms.

Jones.

Uh thank you, your worship.

I do believe there is an individual from CRD housing.

Um we had have talked to to CRD housing and have indicated that uh the community planner would be making his recommendation and speaking to council, and they would have an opportunity as well to provide a few comments to council.

So if you would like to call upon that individual, you're you're welcome to do so, your worship.

Well, we may do that.

Okay, thank you.

I mean, is there a general agreement with council that we would be all right with something like now renting, contact CRD housing?

Councillor Mattson?

I guess my concern is just having a sign that's gonna attract people's, take away people's attention from the you know driving 50 miles an hour, 60 miles an hour.

So I mean I just have a problem with that concept of having something on the road like that.

But there's all sorts of signs off the side of the road that do that all the time.

Yeah, but this one just seems you'd be up starting up the hill, taking your eyes off the road.

Uh anyway, I just until I'm convinced if it's it's actually safe, I just have a problem with it.

Okay, on my left.

Sorry.

Um I I just want to say I was pleased with staff's recommendation.

I was glad they recommended no sign.

I think um a sign of any kind is a distraction, especially on a busy highway.

And um I and frankly, I think I think a now renting sign cheapens the project.

That's me.

That's what I can say.

Yeah, I've got to say I don't, I mean, there's 152 units in here that the CRD needs to rent.

And um I don't see how letting people know that there's rental housing available there.

Um cheapens the project.

But anyhow, that's certainly your prerogative.

Um, Councillor Kualovich.

Thank you.

And uh I I promised myself I wouldn't get into debate over the uh content of the sign and the deeper meaning of the sign because I think we're talking about the sign.

Um so I don't I'm trying to stay on track.

Uh no, I don't support the sign.

Okay, well, that's um so CRD staff that's on the line.

I don't know if you want to speak to that or if there's anything you can say that'll change minds.

Yeah, hi, I don't know if you can hear me.

I'm the manager of housing uh initiatives and programs.

Yeah.

Okay, so my name is John Riley.

Um I would like to say a few words if you don't mind, please.

Um perhaps this can help uh sway some people.

Uh your worship and council members, uh, thanks for taking the time uh for affording the Capital Region Housing Corporation time this evening to speak to our application for a temporary sign on our newest building, West Park Lane.

The CRHC acknowledges the size of the sign leading to the staff recommendation of denying the permit is in its current form too small.

Hopefully, we can uh council can approve us working in the spirit of uh appropriately marketing our building uh in a way that can meet uh some of the concerns that your staff have and find some alternative suggestions.

Uh, the first for the first time in nearly 30 years, uh, there are indicators in the region that rental housing market is becoming increasingly competitive.

Uh, the vacancy rates are increasing, market rents are dropping, and new market rental housing, as we could hear in the the development uh uh on the public hearing tonight, uh, is being introduced into the market in uh high numbers, uh, numbers we've never we've not seen in in 25 to 30 years.

There's an urgent need to explore all means of marketing these units uh so that we can operate within our broader market.

You can appreciate that the CR, the Capital Region Housing Corporation does not use its resources for fancy advertising campaigns, but we try to use them to maximize the affordability of our housing.

Hence, we want to exploit every possible way to use cost effective ways in order to signal to people across a broad spectrum of income levels that they can live in this beautiful high quality homes.

This approach has proved successful in making our first project, Millstream Ridge in Lankford, successful.

Every day, approximately 45,000 people in vehicles pass by this property.

And as the first 100% of rental building in this area, I think no doubt there will be curiosity when people look up and notice that that's a rental building, not a strata property.

At six stories high, there is no better way to immediately capture the attention and raise awareness through the building's tenure as well as the accommodation market it is targeted for than the application of a practical temporary banner stating that it's available for rent.

The captive audience that this passes by every day is incredibly valuable to our overall marketing goals.

And to not put up a temporary sign is a wasted opportunity, we believe.

We want to raise awareness about the Capital Region Housing Corporation to inform and excite the public, many of whom are in much need of affordable housing, and celebrate the fact that municipal, provincial, and federal governments are delivering on their commitments.

We want to give people hope that they too can enjoy a home in such a wonderful building in such a magnificent area of View Royal as the near the Thetis Lake Park Regional Park.

It's a price that they singularly as a family can't afford.

Oftentimes people would drive by these kinds of areas and think there's no way I could afford to live there.

In fact, we have already had an experience of someone who has come to see the property and they broke down in tears when they saw the wonderfulness of the units, the well-developed property, and of course its proximity to the park.

It should be pointed out that we've been actively reaching out to renters where we can to seek information, of course, across digital media and platforms and channels.

It's clearly our most important tactic in informing people of the opportunity to rent, but it's not the only one.

Not all residents have computers, smartphones, or ways to digitally search for a place.

They can rely on word of mouth or on visually making a connection to an opportunity, especially one as uh visually stunning as the property beside Thetis Lake.

It's a passive tactic, but it's a part of our overall marketing plan.

The project, of course, as you know, it's being built with a region wide partnership, the Regional Housing First Program, and of course, has been provided a regional housing trust fund grant of up to 660,000.

And we're very, very appreciative of the fact that this is the first project to be built in View Royal and the first project to be supported by a regional housing trust fund grant, which View Royal's been a member of for many, many years and contributed to its finally able to pay back.

Helping to make this project financially successful helps demonstrate the value that the town of View Royal has to the contribution that it's making through these CRD managed funding programs.

It's actually the Capital Region Housing Corporation.

If we put that many words up there, it may more stimulate more trying to read what the what the words are on the sign that if it was just simply for rent and a phone number.

I do also think that likely what would happen is people would be uh capture, look at the sign and then maybe make their way up to the property in order to get a closer look and likely write down.

I I can't imagine folks would be driving by trying to write down or or uh type a number into their phones as they were going by, but I do appreciate council members' concern for safety.

Um but uh I I I think folks may make just uh the next time they drive by, like they drop up to the property to have a look.

Uh we want to build uh and succeed on this property.

Um we're, you know, we're very concerned that if we don't fill the uh the affordable rental units in the building, that the property will not be viable.

Uh and that's 80% of that property needs to be filled in that way.

We can't turn to the standard uh BC housing wait lists or uh the community uh assessment and access service to fill those units, they've got to be really uh filled through the competitive process.

So we're really uh would appreciate your consideration and and give us a chance to work with your staff to get a temporary sign up there that's gonna work to help get those units uh um rented up as quickly as possible.

And I so appreciate you taking the time to hear me out tonight.

If I I'll take any questions if you have any.

Thank you, John.

I think there is a question.

Counselor Kowalowitch.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Um, since I promised not to talk about some of those uh topics, I'm glad you brought them up.

I have to say I am I am really surprised with some of the things that I'm hearing about having problems renting out these units.

Uh it is a uh vast uh difference from what was presented to us.

Um every single report um indicates the housing crisis and that these units would be filled before they were even built.

So I I am just I'm very surprised to hear that we think that a banner hanging off of an apartment building will be um the solution to all the problems.

And I'm not saying that I'm against it.

And I and I get it.

I see the big picture, um, and I understand the semiotics of signs and and capturing people's attention.

But I am just really surprised to hear this news like this, to be honest with you.

Well, I think it's worth remembering that the building, the whole model of the housing first program, is that the buildings are designed to support the 34 shelter rate units.

And the rest of it is essentially low end of market housing, right?

So the one bedrooms are renting, I believe, for $13.95 a month.

John can correct that.

That's correct.

Yep.

Yeah, thank you.

So I mean, that is that is the low end of market.

So I mean, they do have to go after those those people to um to get them in there.

For sure.

And that's what makes the buildings financially even, right?

That that's what pays subsidizes the the shelter rate units and keeps the buildings without requiring a taxpayer's subsidy.

Okay, Councillor Rogers?

Yes, uh thanks again for uh you know giving us some more information on this.

Um you know and when I can I can understand it when cars are driving by um they'll see it, but they've just even struck by.

There's no way of being able to get off and then be able to come back, and if they know how to come back, um to the location.

So it's um it's it's almost like you have to rent now uh Theus Lake, something like that, that people can um can uh appreciate where they are.

Uh I think you're you're certainly going to be speaking to those riding the bus.

Um those I think that'll that'll be um you know very visible and worthwhile.

Um, you know, since I think transit users may be also in need of rental housing.

Have you given some thoughts of having signage uh down on the on and off ramps of uh that uh the six-mile intersection uh interchange there?

Um I I don't know if that I can bring that up with our communications and marketing staff to see if they have.

Because that that seems to me that's that's where you're um you know, if you had a big sign saying, you know, housing, rental available, and they're pointing left as you're coming down on the off ramp, they'll know to turn left.

And likewise, if they're going up to uh to go to Langford Duke, Costco, whatever, they'll see the sign and they'll they'll uh know to go uh straight.

So I think that is where you're gonna have the biggest impact on advertising that these are now available.

Yeah.

The the other thing I could recommend if you're concerned about the number of words, I I would almost want to recommend back to my communications and marketing staff to say uh maybe the two things would be the phone number and just put West Park because the the on our marketing site it is does appear as simply as West Park.

Um, and I think if people typed in West Park rent, um uh they would probably pop right onto our site.

Um, so I mean that could be a way of reducing the number of words or the concern for having to read.

People would likely remember West Park.

Just a thought.

So, Council, what's your pleasure?

I mean, I I would really encourage you to, I don't know how many times over the years we have allowed temporary signs for private developers.

Um, but I know quite a few where we've, you know, now selling the casino springs to mind where we allowed a massive banner hanging off the side of the casino saying now open.

Um so it really doesn't seem unreasonable to me for a few months to allow a a now renting sign to a building that View Royal technically is an owner of um and when we talk about rental housing the buildings in Langford um that are were also housing first buildings um they were bought turnkey from a development or developer and those have actually been very very very difficult to get rented with between COVID and everything else that's going on in the world so at any rate, there's a staff recommendation there, or somebody can make a an alternative recommendation.

Well almost staff Councillor Matson.

Staff recommendation.

They still dealt with the safety issue, so I can't support it for that reason.

Okay, so it's moved by Councillor Mattson, seconded by Councillor Lemon that it be declined.

Oh second.

Any discussions?

Councillor Kowalovich.

I'd I would like to see I would like to potentially see an amendment, but I I'd like some discussion on this.

I think there has to be a way that we can we can get something done here.

Um it's it's interesting to hear this news tonight, but I also I'm really I'm really leery of totally declining any sign at all because I I do think there's value in supporting the project overall in the spirit of it.

I'm just I'm I'm just a little I I guess I'm not sure how it's gonna all work out, but um I'm open to to supporting some sort of an idea here.

So you could defeat this motion if that's what happened and then make a new motion.

The staff worked with the CRD.

And I I think the CRD and staff have a pretty good um idea of what they collectively need to do.

Yeah, that's fair.

I would I would like to defeat.

Well, I I would like to make a motion to okay.

So let's we need to call the question on this one.

Okay, so all in favor of this motion, which is to decline.

So that's okay, and then opposed.

So opposed is Councillor Kowalowich, Mayor Screech, and Councillor Rogers.

So the motion fails.

I'd like to make a motion for staff to work with the CRD to come up with a new plan regarding the sign.

Okay.

And there's a seconder for that.

Second.

Second.

So I mean that that's kind of an open motion, staff, but it gives you the you know to work with CRD housing and come up with something that everybody can live with to promote the building.

If I may go ahead.

Yes, I I I think I'm encouraged by um um the idea of having now renting West Park.

Um it it it signals the it's availability, it signals the location, and I hope staff and and um uh the applicant can work to that regard.

Is that clear enough, staff for CAO is nodding his head.

All in favor of the motion?

Okay, so I'm gonna call the question unless anybody else wants to talk to it.

Opposed.

So none opposed.

So that's carried.

Thank you, John Riley.

Thank you so much, everyone.

I appreciate your time.

No, thank you.

You pet.

So next we have the View Royal Park Plan final draft.

Staff, I understand you have a fairly brief presentation to go through.

Thank you, Your Worship.

It's Lindsay.

And yes, I do have a fairly brief presentation to go through, and I will even skip some slides for you.

Thank you.

As soon as the other as long as the slides did earlier.

Well, I can hope that I will do a better job because I'm actually on a different computer now.

All right.

I am assuming that you can see my screen.

Yeah.

Sorry, you can't?

No, we can.

Yep.

It's all?

Okay, great.

All right.

So I am I'm pleased to be uh bringing the View Royal Park Master Plan forward uh for uh consideration to council.

It has been um uh uh close to a year's worth of of work on it, um, and we'm I'm uh excited by the the the possibilities that uh that exist.

So just really quickly, uh Council is obviously very familiar with the park.

There have been lots of changes over the past ten years since we did the last planning process, um uh from from community gardens to a bike pump track to improvements, uh massive improvements to drainage because that was one of the really significant issues ten years ago, um, to the planting of more trees.

Um we've we've we've done it we've done a lot and the park has become very much a centerpiece of of uh of activity uh in the in the town.

As part of the process, we we really dove uh worked with the community to understand what what park users really like.

And obviously the pump track, the dog park, and the playground feature quite heavily in that list of loves.

And there were other things that they would all that the community also expressed an interest in seeing some change around.

So things like expanding the bike park, providing a washroom, parking area, splash pad, et cetera.

And we we do take into consideration all of these different items.

And we recognize that View Royal Park is not the only park in the town, and we will certainly be considering some of these ideas as we as we move forward with other park planning processes, such as for Helmton Centennial Park.

Park users also made lots of recommendations around the future, and you can see sort of what the what the more common priorities were.

I think it's really interesting to see that more trees was a very strongly strongly held view.

Washroom facilities and Fench Dog Park.

A few of the substantial changes were um the number of people who are uh uh uh no longer walking to the park uh and uh a a a correlating increase in people coming by car, those who no longer live within one kilometer.

And on the other side we also see that drainage concerns are are significantly reduced and and there there have been some other success areas.

And there we go.

So in terms of concerns, I think what's really uh remarkable is that 55% of uh respondents to the survey indicated that they actually had no concerns with the park.

So I think that that that speaks very very highly.

And the other the the remaining sort of concern areas were around parking.

About 17%, something to do with dogs, 7% of folks recognizing that a washroom was was needed, 5% still indicating that drainage was an issue at certain times.

And then the other category, and you can see the sort of catchphrase that all of that is.

So these are these are the major features of the 2020 plan.

So we do propose that a permanent washroom is needed, adding an elevated viewing platform along the creek, additional seating and picnic areas, installing that picnic shelter or community gathering place, a very slight increase to the number of community garden beds, creating a designated off leash area that is fenced.

We've removed a bridge from the plan between Bureau Park and the Viewcrest neighborhood, and really significant emphasis on improving riparian areas and addressing climate concerns in our planning and planting in this park.

What that shows up as expand is through expansion of native riparian planting, constructing wetlands, much like we have in other parks, such as Portage Park, a strong emphasis on tree and shrub planting and that that viewing platform to direct people to where we want them to go adjacent to the water, and hopefully that would then will then reduce the amount of rogue paths that we see immediately adjacent to the waterfront.

The 15-year plan includes all of these things.

What it doesn't include, because we heard loud and clear that parking further into the park was not a desirable feature, but we did hear that the community gathering space, a dual pathway around what is now the North Field in order to best contain dogs was something that we are we are bringing forward for consideration.

And then also public washroom and and really more of more of the theme because at the end of the day I think we've been doing a great job with this park and the community really loves it.

So we're not tinkering in a in a really significant way here.

We do have a phasing plan so we are again looking at a 15 to 20 year time horizon for full implementation and the phasing does take into consideration those details of things that we do need to do first, which are things like the geotechnical investigation to make sure that our our drainage drainage issues are resolved before we make any any other significant investments.

But we also see things like the addition of a few more community garden beds, the washroom and the picnic area being higher priority items, and then ultimately replacing site furnishings, additional picnic tables, and ongoing planting in the park.

So the recommendation from staff is that council adopt the VROL Master Plan, V Rail Park Master Plan, dated November 17th, 2020.

I'm here to answer questions, and we also have our consultant, uh Bev Winjack from LADR Landscape Architecture.

Okay, thank you, Lindsay.

So one question I have is how do we make sure this is going to happen?

Like it's wonderful to have the plan, but how do we actually make sure that it's going to be funded properly, that we have an incremental plan of funding it, making sure that things happen and then that we stick to it, right?

If an idea comes out of left field, which may or may not be a good idea, but that we don't drop our plan and fund that as opposed to what we're thinking in this plan.

So how do we make sure that all happens?

Thank you, your worship.

I I I think that um our our director of finance would be absolutely thrilled if we brought forward project summaries for inclusion in the five-year financial plan that clearly indicated what the budget request would be each year and we can we can start to build that in.

I do note that this uh some of the improvements that are listed here are things that could be considered through the community amenity contributions that we will hopefully start to receive from various projects.

Um so there there are a few different funding sources, uh but ultimately it is up to it is up to council to make that decision as to um how how you wish to fund this particular implementation, and staff will will bring forward options for your consideration in that regard.

Okay, thank you.

Yeah, thank you, Lindsay.

On my left, Councillor Lemond, I see your hand.

I think it's a beauty of a plan.

So just a couple of small questions.

And one is I can I can't really identify on what I have here on my iPad, where the increased parking will be.

It it did we say in the original area?

And it was and how much?

Remind me.

Actually, uh through through your worship, council indicated that they did not wish to see increased parking in the park.

Okay.

And that was my understanding.

Since that, we we did ask Director Rosenberg to bring back more information on the possibility of adding a few spots alongside or parallel to the roadway leading into the park.

Okay, good.

Thank you for that reminder.

Another question and well comment can't tell you how thrilled I am about the fencing around the dog park.

That would bring me back into the park.

Are are are we destined to live with that nasty ditch forever?

Funny you should mention that.

That is actually one of the the uh the the projects that is recommended in the plan um uh with with recognition that um naturalizing that particular ditch um should help address some of the shall we call them sludge issues um and and muddy dog issues that uh we we have heard so much about from so many different folks in in the community.

Okay.

Naturalizing or paving over it, either one.

Um and and final question.

Um the the entrance to the dog park I see at the north end of the of the north field.

Um it it one entrance.

No, there's four?

Well four to the fenced area.

Is there?

Okay, I d I just couldn't see them on I I just couldn't spot them there.

Okay, I'm I've been answered.

Thank you.

Councillor Mattson.

Sure.

I I like a lot of things in the plan.

Uh I'm I just can't help myself, but you know, should we have another great idea like the the bike park?

I would certainly hope that council would would would not think that whatever plan we have is etched in stone and we can't incorporate a good idea.

But speaking of not incorporating a bad idea, for somebody who used that park for many years, I just see no reason for putting for for fencing in a separate walk along that for dogs and and pedestrians to separate them.

That to my mind makes no sense.

Councilor Rogers.

Yes, thank you.

Um I'm strongly in favor of uh uh having a fenced uh off leash area um for a couple of reasons.

One, um uh obviously it's um there are the people that used to park that uh don't like dogs, I don't understand, but they do not.

Um, and they wish to be separated from dogs when they're uh going around.

They're either walking, running, or cycling.

Um and I think most importantly is the you know the great initiative, and one of the highlights of um what the people are saying is that to have a protected natural um area along the stream, and there's nothing more um tempting to a dog, a thirsty dog, to use the uh uh the the uh stream or to go foraging for birds or eggs or whatever, a lab can eat up duck eggs uh you know quite handily so I think um the fencing takes uh care of the uh ecological importance of uh uh the creek as well as uh considering the high usage that this um park now has with the bike park and so forth um I just hope there's going to be lots of gates in that fence so that um people can approach it from from various ends but also um it also helps keep dogs out of nasty smelly ditches as well um the one question I have um is uh drinking fountains.

Uh that was one of the big uh things that uh was uh a need.

Uh it should help alleviate all the water bottles that the the bite part.

Where would we uh be putting drinking fountains for people and dogs?

And I don't mean at the entrance at the roundabout.

Do you think the pavilion uh shelter might be an idea?

I think that I think that that is a possibility.

Um and I believe that Bev Winjack is on the line.

She may be able to um direct you uh on the plan as to where where we've included that.

In close proximity to the bike park.

Yeah.

So that's that's already a capital project that's in our five-year plan, but we just deferred it.

I I guess the uh the yeah, I remember us uh doing that, your worship, and and um I think um it would be worthwhile for us to have that uh drinking fountain also noted in the um uh in the uh the plan here, as well as a sidewalk um going from Pheasant Lane into the park.

I think there's a a budget item for for consideration there as well.

So those are two uh aspects that I hope that um we can cement and document in this plan.

And um in terms of parking, um my concern is that this this park with the off leash um is going to be very attractive to um um to all of you also a lot of people want to come here, drive there uh with their dogs from Choco or Northview Royal.

And unless we're looking to uh improve or provide those amenities in their neighborhoods, uh we will need parking.

So um it's uh it's something to consider and and uh is staff um I guess one of the other considerations and discussion points was uh staff working with school district sixty one to see if we could have parking at the school.

So I I'm gonna suggest given the hour that we we really don't want to get into those details right now.

Yeah.

It's it's moving to quarter to ten.

I mean the the the plan is on the agenda for approval and you know, operating things we can um we can discuss at another time.

So I yeah, I would uh move the uh plans approval with the inclusion of drinking fountains and a sidewalking in the park.

Just I mean that's just so open-ended, counselor rogers.

Um so your your your your worship, may I yeah, go ahead.

Um I I I believe that once council has considered the items that uh Director Rosenberg is working on, we can certainly amend the plan at that point in time if if those if those items are approved.

Yeah, thank you.

That would that would be the the the butt the sidewalk, etc.

So can I get a motion to approve the plan, please?

Motion to move.

So moved by councillor Lemon.

Is there a second here?

I'll second.

Seconded by counselor kualovich comments sure i i'm just i feel so strongly about the uh the vote we can okay counselor kualovich i just uh i would like to just communicate to my colleagues that like any plan there's obviously discretion built into this it's not uh it it's uh it's a guide book it's it's a playbook that we um we will strive to um follow, but i think as our community evolves and grows and needs change, that we uh we need to change with that so um i do want to recognize the comments about parking.

As much as i'm fundamentally um opposed to adding more vehicle spots, it if we really truly want this to be a destination for the community and we're having a public gathering space, etc.

etc.

Um, the fact of the matter is people still need to drive, whether you're driving an electric vehicle, whether you're driving a gas power vehicle, you will drive there at some point.

Um the the point I think there um there needs to be an understanding of a guidebook, a playbook, and and some flexibility um for things that are still not in the plan.

Uh, but I also think that um and looking forward to um um a a costing and a priorities, uh priority so we can get a sense of what those priorities may be when we're looking at um uh implementation.

Yeah, I I certainly agree that there needs to be flexibility, but I also don't agree that you don't go to the expense and the work of a plan if if you're gonna easily change it.

Um so I mean I think that needs to be taken into account too.

I mean, it it's a good plan, it's been developed with community input, um, and a lot of work with the from the consultants and committees, so um I think it's worth sticking to it.

And yeah, so maybe we put a water fountain in here or another sidewalk there.

I mean, that's not the end of the world in changing the overall intention of the plan.

I really do complain strongly support the fenced in dog area.

I accept that it's going to be expensive.

I think it's a genius compromise.

Um, but I think there's so many good reasons for all users to do that, and I think it'll make them happy.

And I'm I'm really glad to see that that that has come back in us.

So thank you to staff, thank you to the consultants that have worked hard on it, and we'll look forward to seeing how we can um transfer it from paper to uh a reality.

So I'm gonna call the question.

All in favor?

Opposed.

Councillor Mattson's opposed.

So that's carried.

So next we just need a motion for A and B, please.

Opposed, that's carried.

Second.

All in favor.

Thank you.

Um, and A, B, and C for receipt.

Okay.

All in favor.

Opposed, that's carried.

Next for two nine eight island highway.

Councillor Lemon is going to refuse this for the conflict.

Okay, staff, go ahead.

Two nine eight island highway.

Thank you, Rorship.

Jeff Child, Senior Planner.

Uh the purpose of this presentation is just to provide council update on a couple of items with regard to the uh the two bylaws, uh basically traffic circulation, some changes to the zoning bylaw, and the uh the covenant.

So I'd like to turn it over to the um director of engineering, uh Director Rosenberg.

Thank you, Jeff.

Uh John Rosenberg, Director of Engineering.

Uh, at the last meeting, council had a few questions with regards to uh opportunities to perhaps change the area with regards to traffic solutions.

Um, one concept that was brought forward was a roundabout at Eltham.

Um, at that time I had mentioned that I I didn't see that it was a fit, uh, but I did follow up with our um traffic engineer, and and he did agree with staff in that um there are certainly uh challenges there with regards to alignment as uh the road drops significantly from Eltham down to Island Highway.

Um, that would cause some significant sight line issues.

Um, we don't think there's enough current right of way in there to put a proper uh roundabout in there.

Um, there may be some way of building some kind of pseudo roundabout or some kind of median that would slow traffic down, but I don't think we'd be able to build some kind of roundabout with the current area.

But we could look at it farther if if council really wanted to head in that direction.

And the biggest issue was that um a roundabout generally tries to have a more even disparity of uh volumes of traffic on the legs it's presenting.

And um obviously would be significantly less.

That there would be vehicles in the range of you know 100 plus, I think, a day from Eltham and into Eltham, whereas uh Helmkin Road would literally has thousands of vehicles.

So for the 100 or so vehicles that Eltham would carry on to the roundabout, there'd be a significant amount that there'd be issues for on Helmkin.

Um I'm not sure that the benefit of vehicles being able to do the boomerang effect of coming up Helmkin and then coming right back down would outweigh the detrimental impacts of the other traffic movements.

It is thought that the preferred alternative path would be to go down to Fezzalane and come back up.

Going down Stormont and Rudyard or the reverse Rudyard and then Stormont with all the traffic calming that's currently on those roads would be significantly, I think, slower.

I think there was uh I think the uh consultant themselves looked at that and their their engineer thought that that that uh direction was slow as well.

So again, we don't think that that that number would be large, and we do think they they tend to go to the pheasant lane roundabout uh the second uh issue if you go to the next slide Jeff was uh uh the request to look at a right removing the right turn lane that currently is there the dedicated right turn lane and the westward movement as you head down the island highway towards Homkin um and we definitely see that as uh a significant uh issue with regards to queuing lines uh that is a heavily used movement uh especially during that PM peak and to eliminate that movement would would cause some I mean there's significant backup now on the highway but it it would uh increase that uh issue significantly we didn't see that there was enough uh gains from a safety perspective we think the sight lines uh will work with the current access design and we definitely think there'd be some other uh undesirable results that would far away any kind of positive that might be seen from uh this perspective of safety uh so if there's any questions I can answer them if not I hope hope that I've clarified any questions that that you might have had about those two issues.

Okay thank you John there questions for John go ahead yes uh thank you Mr.

I I I was taking a stab at the dark hoping that there would be um um you know uh some other way rather than having to go down um all the way to Pheasant Lane or um be another source of aggravation for the Stormont Rudgyard um homes and and people along there.

Um I don't think that we've got much of a solution.

But I was also wondering, um, you know, Mr.

Pye, Wayne Pye has bought the house um between Eltham and this uh property, and um I'm sure Mr.

Pye is looking to uh develop that property.

I wondered if there was some means uh where um the two applicants could um come together or the town could make expectations that um the applicants come together to create some means of um egress so that the um these people aren't coming out at the worst possible locations, just a few feet away from those those cars that are turning right, a few feet from the bus.

And you know, this is such a um terrible corner for um for vehicles that are coming in and out.

I um I just was hoping that maybe there's a way of working with Mr.

Pye in that future development to um uh to create another solution.

Any thoughts on that?

I have no thoughts uh with regards to uh some kind of compromise with uh another property owner.

That certainly wouldn't be within my realm of expertise.

I would agree that if somehow a access uh could be provided on Eltham, whether they just outright purchased that property and amalgamated it or not, I do think that that would be a solution that would be very helpful for this particular property, but at current it's not part of the property, so I wouldn't have a comment on it.

So what we have before us is an application to redeveloped property using basically the same in and outs as it has now.

Yeah.

Um so I think we should stick to land use.

Um is there any other questions for Mr.

Rosenberg?

Pardon?

Okay.

Okay, so let's move on then to the uses staff on the the zoning.

Thank you, worship, Jeff here again.

So we've changed the revised uh the draft bylaw 1061 uh to add a new definition to the zoning bylaw to create the zoning, a neighborhood grocery definition, and uh that has restrictions on the use and the size.

So the uh the use is a new is a grocery which can include some accessory uses, including bakery, cafe, and delicatessen, but those can't be the primary uses.

Um so that's of quite a uh so that's a new definition.

Uh the maximum size would be 700 square meters, which would accommodate this project.

It's smaller than the other uh groceries in the uh and supermarkets in in the town.

So uh yeah so in terms of principal uses the could be neighborhood grocery and apartment use the conditions of use for the groceries the grocery neighborhood grocery uh is that it may only be on the on the ground floor in this zone and that the hours of operation are limited to 6 a.m and 11 p.m and uh in concert with that to that to kind of narrow down the the land use um we're also proposing a change of the covenant.

And for that I would pass you on to uh Director chase.

Go ahead, Lindsay.

Thank you.

Thank you, your worship.

Um i the the uh uh uh a covenant is the best tool that we have available to address the question of uh uh uh franchise or um or a larger corporation.

The only concern that we do have is to make sure that we clearly understand what kind of a format um Red Barn or similar type stores operate under to ensure that we're we're not inadvertently shooting ourselves in the foot um uh by uh by um actually excluding something that we we would do want to see in that particular in in that particular location or the type of use that we would like to see there and the reason we don't put it into zoning is because zoning is is to address use not user and um uh franchise or corporation um is a user not a use so um the covenant is is our our recommendation for how to address that particular concern of councils okay thank you counselor mattson so uh and in terms of the actual bylaw are those um I I anyways in the bylaw I tried to see it.

I didn't see the words neighborhood grocery and uh in there.

If I have I missed something?

I think it's uh I don't know.

Staff, do you want to uh through you your worship?

I didn't see it.

I will look at the bylaw.

Actually, it's in the agenda, so I will try to bring that up and have see if I can share that.

This is really short, so two, three pages.

Well uh council, we appear to have the incorrect bylaw attached to the agenda.

Uh uh.

So you are you you you you are you are not mistaken in not seeing neighborhood grocery.

Okay can you throw that up so we can see it then or when it comes time I'm uh working on that as we speak while we're quiet can we get a motion to extend the meeting by forty five minutes so all in favor opposed that's carried so did you uh my staff.

Well they're working on that, so why don't we let them I guess my my question is um i do do we have a good enough definition of neighborhood grocery?

No, no.

The definition are you counsel, are you still able to see the PowerPoint slide?

Yes.

Okay.

So the the de the definition um proposed is neighborhood grocery, which means a grocery with a leasable floor area of less than 700 square meters, and neighborhood grocery may include as accessory uses only, bakery cafe, and delicatessen.

And then there's the hours restriction as well.

And then the covenant is what staff's suggesting.

So between those three, I think they've got it covered.

Right.

So you know, I under I Okay, just hang on a second.

Because Councillor Rogers or Counselor Matson had the floor.

I just wanted to see the bylaw actually written in there.

Sorry.

Yeah.

So do you are you able to bring the correct file up if we're gonna consider giving readings to it, staff?

Through your worship.

I am going to unshare and unshare.

Okay, we'll let you work on that, and Councillor Wolovich can ask his question of Director Chase.

Yeah, do we have any neighborhood grocery stores that are permitted to stay open until 11 or any grocery stores?

I for some reason I thought it said 10 o'clock last time.

But I'm not sure.

Okay.

I I just um quality foods is open till 10 every night.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I just don't I don't know if I've ever seen one open till 11, especially a boutique or grocery store.

I'm just thinking until 11 p.m.

I'm just thinking of um well just crime prevention and just everything to do with the late hour to do with that.

I mean it is still a residential neighborhood.

Um yeah, I mean 10 would be fine.

Yeah, go go ahead, Lindsay.

I I was I was uh I was just going to say that uh we it is it is a great time to be uh talking about this because these are all things that can be amended at this point so so that's the actual bylaw up on the screen now through your worship that's correct.

So so item two is the creating the new definition of neighborhood grocery.

Uh section three talks about the principal uses being neighborhood grocery and res and apartment use and um subsection three conditions of use are uh that that only be located on the ground.

The grocery is only located on the on the first story, and the hours of operation are between six a.m.

and 11 p.m.

So there did seem to be a desire to change that 11 to 10, I think.

It makes sense, I think.

No, okay.

Yeah, um, uh I certainly would think uh 10's more appropriate.

Yeah.

Counselor Rogers?

Um I'm sorry, I'm coming back down to to the the the definition.

Um so as long as we're we're clear on the definition of the grocery store uh for sale of food products, you know, that um and that you may want to include that grocery store for sale of um uh for food.

Well they do sell more than just food.

I know, but um it you know I guess what I'm concerned about is that you know where the loopholes may be in the definition of a grocery, and um it says where they may include.

So when it says may include bakery cafe um deli, is that meaning that they may include or may not they don't have to do any of those three yeah absolutely that's right so you know so it it's um you can't force them to open a bakery okay but then that's well yeah okay so you know Lindsay can you can you or Jeff could could you speak to that to the the the definition of how much security that gives us under on under um uh zoning writing um we we try to use terms that are um easily understood um and that would have a fairly common definition or common understanding um we do not outright define the term grocery in our zoning bylaw just as we don't define any number of any number of terms that would have a common meaning or a common definition.

So it and and should it ever push should push ever come to shove the the courts have relied on dictionary definitions where where this type of thing is not defined.

So from from staff's perspective articulating it as a a grocery is more than enough uh to to address the the concern that this is intended to be a you know a a a store a store that sells food of some kind um and the accessory uses um those are uses that can only occur if the primary use exists so you couldn't have a standalone bakery cafe or delicatessen you can only have those as accessory uses to a to a neighborhood grocery store anybody else counselor mattson if somebody comes in with something that's slightly different they can always come back and ask for the zone easy help yeah, although you make it you make that sound a little bit easier than it is in reality.

Yeah yeah but I mean the the the most important thing is that the proponent is content with this.

Um so I think this mirrors what they want to see happen on that site and they're comfortable.

And I think it protect between the hours restriction, the covenant and the zoning, it restricts us from seeing anything undesirable go in that space.

So you're seeing from six to ten?

Yeah.

Yeah, staff have already changed it.

Yeah.

So so if everyone is comfortable then with that, then we could consider well, we could receive staff's report.

Yeah, and through you, your worship, the applicant is online if you wish to discuss with them.

I don't know that we do.

We'll we'll see.

So there's a staff recommendation there that um staff recommendations.

Okay, thank you.

So that's moved by Councillor Mattson.

Second.

Seconded by Councillor Kualovich.

So that's the one talking about the covenant and the $3,500 per residential unit.

So I'm gonna call the question on that.

All in favor?

Opposed, that's carried in.

So then there's first and second reading of bylaw 1060.

Second.

Okay.

Everyone good?

Councilor Rogers.

Yeah.

Um with respect to the bylaw, um, I'm okay with the grocery store, I think, but I'm still not okay with uh how uh this is all going to work out uh traffic-wise.

Um I think it's it's you know I I've got so many concerns about um uh the egress in and out, so I will vote against it.

Okay.

Okay, so I'm gonna call the question on first and second reading of bylaw 1060.

So all in favor.

There is this uh recommendation that we schedule a public hearing for January 19th.

Second.

Okay, moved and seconded by Councillor Matson and Rogers.

All in favor, opposed.

That's carried.

Of 1061.

Okay.

Thank you.

And the yeah.

Okay, everyone's good.

And we've already done the public hearing.

All in favor?

I'm opposed.

Opposed.

Councillor Rogers is opposed.

You we wish it referral to the advisory committees.

Um I don't know that you're gonna get a public the on an advisory committee before the public hearing.

Yeah, I think you should.

We don't usually do it to advisory committees at this point in the process.

It would normally be done before bylaw readings.

Um so I would suggest that the advisory committees could give their input through the um through the public hearing process.

But you worship, I'm sorry, with all due respect.

Um we did that with lot nine and lot seven and the others.

No, we didn't.

We hadn't given readings when we sent those to advisory committees.

We had um, but we'd had to ask for their input prior to public hearings.

We had asked for their input prior to first and second reading of the bylaw.

I mean it's Councillor Kwalowitch.

I uh I don't disagree with his worship's procedural uh endeavor here, and I agree with it, although I think in the future moving forward, we should really get some sort of a standard for yeah, I agree with that.

Um so it doesn't happen again.

I you I don't see there's any difficulty, worship.

Um I think it's but there's there's no opportunity for change, right?

Once we do these bylaw readings, there's no opportunity to change and amend.

Right.

So it means that so with respect, if if the can if the by if the advisory committee says if if they want to be involved, they need to come and speak to us at the public hearing.

But at any rate, I'm gonna rule you out of order right now, anyways, because what's on the floor is third reading of the bylaw.

Um first and second reading of the bylaw, sorry.

But we have never in all the years I've been sitting around the council table, sent something to the advisory committees after we have given first and second reading, ever.

Your wisdom, if you may.

Go ahead.

Yes, thank you.

No, I understand what you're saying, but um in order to get their their input, um we can ask for their input and they can that can be made available to us at the public hearing.

I I would encourage all the members of the advisory committee to attend the public hearing or write in as individuals, frankly.

So the the question has already been called, and the public hearing is automatically set for um January 19th on both filos.

And um, you know, the the advisory committee's next meeting is next week.

Um the agendas have been set, they have them, and then they're not going to be meeting again before the public hearing.

So you're you're requesting a special meeting, so I personally don't see what the difference is of having them attend the public hearing and give their comments that way.

And if you worship it, yeah, but you see, the problem is then that would stand with all our uh lot nine evil nest um lot seven, you know, where that's not true, Counselor Rogers.

In those cases, the recommendations came back before we gave readings of the bylaw.

I know completely different.

I know, but it I I think that we can still get the community.

Well, I'm gonna move on, frankly.

And um, you know, maybe staff need to come back as Councillor Kualovich has said with a with a process, um, but we're not gonna make it up on the fly as as we go.

Okay.

So is somebody with that counselor Lemon knows she could come back in the room, please.

She's busy turning off her feed from watching us, I'm sure.

Was she a long ways away?

Oh, there she's got to have a look at the end.

So welcome back to Councillor Lemon.

So next on our agenda is um item B, which is the third reading of the bylaw to do with Nine Erskine Lane.

So is someone prepared to move third reading?

So third reading is moved by Councillor Rogers, seconded by Councillor Lemmon.

Discussion?

Councillor Matson.

A bit of a problem that's our normal sequences we wait up against the council meeting after we just have the public committee.

So quite ready to do the finish.

But there's a lot to support in this.

I still have a concern that uh the total number of units there is a bit high for the area, and so that's my my one big issue.

And uh I'd also like to find a way of saving some of counselor Rogers, 160 trees in the in the road area.

That uh I don't know how we can do that for what we would need to do, but that that's always a conc that's a concern to me too.

But I don't think that's part of the the rezoning at this point.

But I still I still have an issue about the total number of units.

Well, I agree with you on the the the road allowance and whether or not we should be putting a full-size road through there, which would protect more trees.

So but I don't think we want to talk about that now, but we certainly can give staff direction down the road that we want to look at varying our requirements if that's council's wish.

In terms of the public hearing, I I do agree with you.

I I don't like having third reading on the same night as the public hearing.

But given that this has been going on for a long time, the owners of the property do have to close on the property.

Their option has been extended and extended because of the amount of time it's been going on.

So I am sympathetic to that.

And it's worth noting that the public interest tonight for the public hearing was really not huge.

So I don't feel at this point that this is really controversial.

And so I'm okay with having it on the agenda.

So I don't know if that helps you at all.

On my left?

I I was actually gonna say the same thing.

I uh I would prefer the there be a separation between the public hearing and then the third reading from now on.

I don't know if that's a something that we can ask or if this is just a unique set of circumstances, but um it also uh, in my opinion, increase increases transparency as well.

But um that being said, I'm I'm prepared to um to support the rezoning for this tonight uh a lot of the stuff that i have to talk about is more dp um but obviously this is a neighborhood that we have as a council wanted to um grow uh there's a lot of pluses uh i think some of the finer details need to be worked out and i agree with counselor madsen and rogers to do with some of the uh the width of the road and some of the the trees but uh overall it's there there's a lot of positives in this um by rezoning this lab councillor rogers let let's let's try and make it fairly quick because we still have to go on camera.

Yes.

There are only uh um very few uh that um uh that had um you know said uh expressed concerns.

Uh I know there is uh certainly some concerns by some about um uh the extent of this mature forest um um um being removed, but I think um considering the um uh the changes that the applicant has made to uh protect 40 percent um is is really significant.

I think that um the petition that erskine lane residents with stone ridge had put forward much of their concerns um had been addressed particularly um the safety issues coming out on Watkins way um and the um the fact that the applicant is paying for that um yes there are uh outstanding issues um with respect to Lane and I agree I don't think we need uh to have a boulevard on this lane um to um um uh you know if we can you know add things like traffic calming that the neighbors want that would be uh worthwhile, but I think the applicant has done enormous job to satisfy all the issues such as the hospital trail and and uh the list goes on.

I would um um and I think their emphasis towards um uh environmental aspects and alternative transportation is also commendable.

I I think um hopefully we can um get the go to the next process where the buildings are perhaps a little more attractive and um and we assess the uh the height or uh aspects or uh better screening from from Watkins Way, but that can all happen in the next phase.

Thank you, Worship.

Thank you.

Anyone else?

Councillor Lemmon?

Yeah, um just briefly, I I think that we have an opportunity here for a project that sets a standard and a bar um for future developments in pure oil.

Um I commend the applicant for it for his flexibility and his determination and uh in in reading everything that we asked for um and he's you know he's going to be going to some ex some expense to make this all work so um i i received a note from a resident this week um asking me to consider um voting against it but you know it's private property.

And if we don't if we don't if we don't choose this, um it will come back and who knows what you know another applicant or it or a a new counsel will choose to do.

So um I'm supportive.

Okay, thank you.

Anyone else?

You good?

Okay.

So just very briefly for me, I'm I'm happy to support it.

I want to thank the developer and staff for working hard on this and seeing it evolve into what I think is a is a really outstanding project.

You know, and I I think when you look at these developments, you have to look at in in in more than just simply the trees that are on the land.

Um there's so many more elements to consider in climate change and smart growth and everything that goes into a a project.

And um this just ticks so many buttons of the type of housing we need and keeping housing close to workplaces, trails, transit, closer to the core.

People are going to drive far less to get here.

So I'm happy to support it and see it move forward.

And I look forward to talking more about the other issues down the road.

But I do think you're you're seeing a possible flag from council that we would want to look at the required right of way on Erskine Lane and that type of thing, and what may be able to be varied to protect some more trees, possibly.

So we'll leave that with staff.

So I'm going to call the question.

All in favor, posed.

Thank you, everyone.

So it's carried unanimously.

The next one I would suggest that we just need a motion that the mayor write a letter to Sanage asking for their consideration of a boundary change.

Can you get a response?

Pardon?

You got a response from Mayor Atwell?

Well, this is from three years ago.

Oh, okay.

Mayor Atwell hasn't been around since 2018.

My mistake, uh who is it now?

I move.

I move the mayor write a letter asking for a boundary change.

Second.

Thank you.

And so I'll I'll compose a letter of staff and give some more modern day reasons as to why we think it might be a good idea.

Okay.

All in favor?

Opposed.

That's carried.

Thank you, your worship.

Sarah, can you do the closed meeting resolution, please?

There is a need to have a meeting tonight closed to the public and persons other than the immediate members of council, officers, and employees of the town, and those identified under section 912 of the community charter will be excluded on the basis of section 91C, labor and e land.